Should be first, second, and third team all defense. And having played both as a big and perimeter player defensively being a tweener in size for many years, guards should get more emphasis on consideration outside of stats than bigs do. Unless your impact inside is Wemby like (which Goberts has never been that massive), it should always be a perimeter player. But you'd have to have been a player at some kind of decent level of play, and more specifically a good defensive player, to even get that. Like many things in our country, education is a big problem with the people weighing in on topics.
idk...defense isnt that simple which is why one award doesnt work anyway. Kawhi leonard is a beast interior and defensively and only has 2 dpoy. And its not based off of blocks or else wemby wouldve won last year. These awards are stupid and i stopped caring years ago.
@@HoopsRaccoon Kawhi only deserved the DPOY twice, to be fair. He was only elite defensively for a few years, and rode on reputation afterwards. That aside, I think rather than interior, rim protection would be a better way to phrase it. Preventing easy layups is the cornerstone of a great defense. Despite what casuals and haters like to bleat, that’s why Gobert deserved his DPOY’s.
@@HoopsRaccoon It makes tons of sense, just like when it was popular opinion from league players for a few years that Jrue Holiday was the best defender in the league, but was never even top 5 in DPOY contention. The fact is that big men win it 90% of the time and the other form of defense (perimeter defense) is hardly represented in that contention.
@@aricrudd6579 Gobert is an elite help defender and he’s suffering without kat cause he has to play offensive bigs 1v1 now instead of camping weak side. Rudy 100% has not deserved those dpoys and no way he should have more than Ben Wallace or Dwight. You’re tripping.
The 2 DPOYs actually makes sense. I like it too. A lot of defensive beasts that aren't bigs also deserves the award but gets overshadowed because they don't average a lot of blocks. If I'm not mistaken, there's only 3 DPOYs that are guards in the last 40 years.
It’s not just bc they don’t get blocks, it’s bc paint defense is the most important defense since it’s basically guarding all 5 positions (bc everyone tries to score in the paint when possible)
I understand both your points and I partially agree. That's why I agree with J-Dub's idea of giving 2 DPOYs. One for bigs and another for perimeter players so as to acknowledge the efforts of the "little guys" who are amazing defenders but don't get to win because they lack the length.
Makes complete sense to have a guard/wing DPOY and a big DPOY. It's really hard for a guard to have the same impact as a big because bigs are defending the most valuable area on the court for the offense. I'm not sure it's blocks or steals that matter to voters as much as it's eFG% for shots where a player is the closest defender or defensive on-off, etc. and it takes an all-time season for a guard to come close to the best bigs on those metrics.
I also hate they got rid of the positions in all-defence. For all-nba it kinda makes sense, for all-defence absolutely not. Last year they put 4 bigs in the 1st team, screw that. I want to see the guards and wings rewarded.
The thing is defense can’t be measured solely on steals and blocks There’s being in help, rotationing, denying the ball, taking charges +more It doesn’t show up in the stat sheets
Divide it so guards feel good but bigs should get it every year. The amount of shots a guard can contest/change is nowhere near the amount of shots that bigs alter. You may stop one guy but the big had to stop the team.
The thing about Lu Dort could be said about Bam Adebayo and Anthony Davis too. JDub was just naming past DPOYs and with Rudy and JJJ he also mentioned Bam who's never won it. His point is fair, but people (media, fans and players) do not care as much about defensive stats and the fact that he makes about defensive players being taken for granted to then mention Bam as a DPOY just shows that he took that for granted, which is kinda contradictory
The All NBA Defense 3rd team does make sense. Me as a lifetime 🏀 fan in general has always questioned the equal layout of the All NBa and All Defensive teams which is strange on offense you can have 3 teams and defense has 2. Make that make sense.
I was literally thinking about this earlier today. If the NBA wants to make the All Star games better then they should include some defense and then the offense will have to actually make an effort. Nobody wants to watch those games when it's a highlight reel.
Back in the day they actually wanted to prove their conference was the best. It was kinda like the Olympics. Now that they’re all friends, which I’ve got no issues with, they don’t go at each other as hard. I get it a little bit though considering you don’t want to risk getting injured in a game that doesn’t actually matter. We just need to find a way to make it matter again.
I don't think blocks and steals actually weigh that heavily in voting but kinda agree they don't reward good defense enough considering it's the more selfless side of the ball
When Luka smiled as Rudy switched onto him and then proceeded to cross him up to hit a 3 to win a playoff game last year was when i realised the DOPY award needs to be re-worked. No player should be happy when they get a matchup with a DPOY - it makes no sense.
This is such a bad take because Luka does that to everybody. He had 32 that game; who do you think was guarding him on the way to that? 😂. Clippers had two of the better perimeter defenders in the league on him and he was still going for 40 a night in those series.
That's understandable....but as good as Giannis or Bam are, they're not looking to guard Luka or Steph late in a game. Same thing for Lu Dort seeking out a late post-up against Jokic or Embiid. No defender is equipped for EVERY match-up.
the double DPOY ineed makes kinda sense. Since if truly would be biggest impact , it would be a big 100% of the time. And then just randomly decide one year it is time and give it to Smart Probably for that reason you should keep some positions in teams too. Maybe max 3centers per team/ at least 1forward and 1guard. Little bit middleground between truly max impact players and also rewarding guards that bust their asses of(and impact too)
On OKC or Boston with 5 all-defense caliber guys yes. On a normal team, not really. You will usually have one or two guys doing a larger share of the heavy lifting. It’s not at all hard to identify them.
An all defensive team full of frontcourt players is the dumbest thing. Make one team like the award. One award and team for bigs. One award and team for wings and guards. Or even split wings and guards.
It is difficult to judge how good a defensive player is especially when defensive duties vary by position. When awarding an offensive player you can just look at points, assists and to some extent team wins. But a player like Anthony Davis who literally anchors his team defensively, never comes up in these DPOY conversations. Bam has never won the DPOY (although him and the Heat are having a down year this season, but he has 'deserved' it in the past). Jrue Holiday is arguably the best guard defender in the league and has been for the past decade, yet he has non DPOYs whereas Marcus Smart does (not saying Smart did not deserve it the year he won it but if you were to pick a defender out of the 2 you would pick Jrue, especially when you factor in longevity and impact to winning). Last few years the voters just been looking at the team and individual defensive ratings and that determined the winner. This year is probably going to be Wemby because of the narrative. I do wish they figure out how improve the way a DPOY is selected, but I do not know how they will do that. Finally Marc Gasol won a DPOY and made second team All NBA, that should have gone to LeBron!
L take. He spent most of the time here arguing for a teammate of his who is deserving of at least All Defense 1st team in Lu Dort. Who is the backbone of the best defense in the NBA in many years.
@@geeweezy90 I mean guard/wing defense is also important. All he saying is that bigs win the award almost every year because voters focus so much on blocks.
@@skylerjohnson1192the blocker leader doesn’t always get the award. Rudy won the award 4 times but only led the league in blocks once. AD, Myles Turner, Hassan Whiteside… block leaders… no dpoy.
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Should be first, second, and third team all defense. And having played both as a big and perimeter player defensively being a tweener in size for many years, guards should get more emphasis on consideration outside of stats than bigs do. Unless your impact inside is Wemby like (which Goberts has never been that massive), it should always be a perimeter player. But you'd have to have been a player at some kind of decent level of play, and more specifically a good defensive player, to even get that. Like many things in our country, education is a big problem with the people weighing in on topics.
100% with J.
Easy, just divide the DPOY into separate perimeter and interior awards. It’ll never happen, but I think that’s the best way.
idk...defense isnt that simple which is why one award doesnt work anyway. Kawhi leonard is a beast interior and defensively and only has 2 dpoy. And its not based off of blocks or else wemby wouldve won last year. These awards are stupid and i stopped caring years ago.
@@HoopsRaccoon Kawhi only deserved the DPOY twice, to be fair. He was only elite defensively for a few years, and rode on reputation afterwards. That aside, I think rather than interior, rim protection would be a better way to phrase it. Preventing easy layups is the cornerstone of a great defense. Despite what casuals and haters like to bleat, that’s why Gobert deserved his DPOY’s.
Agreed
@@HoopsRaccoon It makes tons of sense, just like when it was popular opinion from league players for a few years that Jrue Holiday was the best defender in the league, but was never even top 5 in DPOY contention. The fact is that big men win it 90% of the time and the other form of defense (perimeter defense) is hardly represented in that contention.
@@aricrudd6579 Gobert is an elite help defender and he’s suffering without kat cause he has to play offensive bigs 1v1 now instead of camping weak side. Rudy 100% has not deserved those dpoys and no way he should have more than Ben Wallace or Dwight. You’re tripping.
J Dubb is one of the best personalities in the NBA
The 2 DPOYs actually makes sense. I like it too. A lot of defensive beasts that aren't bigs also deserves the award but gets overshadowed because they don't average a lot of blocks. If I'm not mistaken, there's only 3 DPOYs that are guards in the last 40 years.
True but it’s not even about blocks it’s purely about overall impact because bigs just always have a bigger impact because of the areas they guard
It’s not just bc they don’t get blocks, it’s bc paint defense is the most important defense since it’s basically guarding all 5 positions (bc everyone tries to score in the paint when possible)
I understand both your points and I partially agree. That's why I agree with J-Dub's idea of giving 2 DPOYs. One for bigs and another for perimeter players so as to acknowledge the efforts of the "little guys" who are amazing defenders but don't get to win because they lack the length.
And yeah, having a defensive 3rd team would also be nice.
It’s similar to how the NFL MVP is always a quarterback.
Makes complete sense to have a guard/wing DPOY and a big DPOY. It's really hard for a guard to have the same impact as a big because bigs are defending the most valuable area on the court for the offense. I'm not sure it's blocks or steals that matter to voters as much as it's eFG% for shots where a player is the closest defender or defensive on-off, etc. and it takes an all-time season for a guard to come close to the best bigs on those metrics.
Man I love this guy.
Glad Young Man and the Three is keeping good content rolling, and J Dub keeps making his appearance.
I also hate they got rid of the positions in all-defence. For all-nba it kinda makes sense, for all-defence absolutely not. Last year they put 4 bigs in the 1st team, screw that. I want to see the guards and wings rewarded.
This makes sooooooo much sense!
perimeter defensive player of the year & paint defensive player of the year. makes sense to me
The thing is defense can’t be measured solely on steals and blocks
There’s being in help, rotationing, denying the ball, taking charges +more
It doesn’t show up in the stat sheets
more jdub!!! lets promote the next generation
He just made perfect sense. And I agree with you Mr Williams.
Love watching J Dub
Divide it so guards feel good but bigs should get it every year. The amount of shots a guard can contest/change is nowhere near the amount of shots that bigs alter. You may stop one guy but the big had to stop the team.
The thing about Lu Dort could be said about Bam Adebayo and Anthony Davis too. JDub was just naming past DPOYs and with Rudy and JJJ he also mentioned Bam who's never won it. His point is fair, but people (media, fans and players) do not care as much about defensive stats and the fact that he makes about defensive players being taken for granted to then mention Bam as a DPOY just shows that he took that for granted, which is kinda contradictory
The All NBA Defense 3rd team does make sense. Me as a lifetime 🏀 fan in general has always questioned the equal layout of the All NBa and All Defensive teams which is strange on offense you can have 3 teams and defense has 2. Make that make sense.
All nba ain't just offensive production you casual
I think they should divide the DPOY into 2 teams of 5 players each that incorporate frontcourt and backcourt position
J Dub speaking too clearly
I fully agree with him.
I was literally thinking about this earlier today. If the NBA wants to make the All Star games better then they should include some defense and then the offense will have to actually make an effort. Nobody wants to watch those games when it's a highlight reel.
Back in the day they actually wanted to prove their conference was the best. It was kinda like the Olympics. Now that they’re all friends, which I’ve got no issues with, they don’t go at each other as hard. I get it a little bit though considering you don’t want to risk getting injured in a game that doesn’t actually matter. We just need to find a way to make it matter again.
I don't think blocks and steals actually weigh that heavily in voting but kinda agree they don't reward good defense enough considering it's the more selfless side of the ball
facts. there should be a guard AND big DPOY, both play completely different games like dub said
When Luka smiled as Rudy switched onto him and then proceeded to cross him up to hit a 3 to win a playoff game last year was when i realised the DOPY award needs to be re-worked. No player should be happy when they get a matchup with a DPOY - it makes no sense.
This is such a bad take because Luka does that to everybody. He had 32 that game; who do you think was guarding him on the way to that? 😂. Clippers had two of the better perimeter defenders in the league on him and he was still going for 40 a night in those series.
I think Luka would be happy if Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, or pretty much any big/center was switched onto him
That's understandable....but as good as Giannis or Bam are, they're not looking to guard Luka or Steph late in a game. Same thing for Lu Dort seeking out a late post-up against Jokic or Embiid. No defender is equipped for EVERY match-up.
I think the defense award should go to the team with the best defense, not the best defender.
That's the silliest costume davis reid has worn yet
the double DPOY ineed makes kinda sense. Since if truly would be biggest impact , it would be a big 100% of the time. And then just randomly decide one year it is time and give it to Smart
Probably for that reason you should keep some positions in teams too. Maybe max 3centers per team/ at least 1forward and 1guard. Little bit middleground between truly max impact players and also rewarding guards that bust their asses of(and impact too)
reality is that defense is too team oriented to give it to a single player that's reality.
If you exclude Wemby then yes
Idk. Look at Dyson Daniels, all them deflections are hustle plays, energy. Great defense awareness and IQ, following the ball >>
Or dikembe or wilt or Russell or Shaq or Hakeem or Rudy lul@@fringe_minority
On OKC or Boston with 5 all-defense caliber guys yes.
On a normal team, not really. You will usually have one or two guys doing a larger share of the heavy lifting. It’s not at all hard to identify them.
An all defensive team full of frontcourt players is the dumbest thing. Make one team like the award. One award and team for bigs. One award and team for wings and guards. Or even split wings and guards.
2 dpoy awards...1 for wemby 1 for rest of league
Stop taking in account rebounds problem fixed
Should be Blocks , Steals, Pnr defense and shot contest percentage
Herb jones to okc
It is difficult to judge how good a defensive player is especially when defensive duties vary by position. When awarding an offensive player you can just look at points, assists and to some extent team wins. But a player like Anthony Davis who literally anchors his team defensively, never comes up in these DPOY conversations. Bam has never won the DPOY (although him and the Heat are having a down year this season, but he has 'deserved' it in the past). Jrue Holiday is arguably the best guard defender in the league and has been for the past decade, yet he has non DPOYs whereas Marcus Smart does (not saying Smart did not deserve it the year he won it but if you were to pick a defender out of the 2 you would pick Jrue, especially when you factor in longevity and impact to winning).
Last few years the voters just been looking at the team and individual defensive ratings and that determined the winner. This year is probably going to be Wemby because of the narrative. I do wish they figure out how improve the way a DPOY is selected, but I do not know how they will do that. Finally Marc Gasol won a DPOY and made second team All NBA, that should have gone to LeBron!
My boy mad cuz wemby going to get DPOY for the next 10 years
I don’t think he’s mad at all lol he’s just bringing up a good point about the differences in paint defenders and perimeter defenders
My first thought 😂
Funny enough I'm absolutely with J Dub, but Wemby is a wild card indeed. Might become eligible for both DPOY awards lol.
Jalen "like" Williams
It’s because elite rim protection is more valuable than 1:1 perimeter defence. This guy just wants a participation trophy.
L take. He spent most of the time here arguing for a teammate of his who is deserving of at least All Defense 1st team in Lu Dort. Who is the backbone of the best defense in the NBA in many years.
@ he also argued for a non-big DPOY award
I disagree but I respect your opinion
@@geeweezy90 I mean guard/wing defense is also important. All he saying is that bigs win the award almost every year because voters focus so much on blocks.
@@skylerjohnson1192the blocker leader doesn’t always get the award. Rudy won the award 4 times but only led the league in blocks once. AD, Myles Turner, Hassan Whiteside… block leaders… no dpoy.
DUBBB
Might as well make two MVPs too, one for the best player on the best team and one to the best individual performer
Defense is a lot different than offense. Your best offensive player can be a big or a guard. There’s two different types of defenders though.
Gay dubb says "like" 7 times in the first 10 seconds 😂
Definitely not Gobert... He didnt deserve it. I said what i said
Bam Adebayo deserves one. Wemby cant guard 1-5
Hahahaha
There is not a single guard that ever tries to matchup hunt Wemby. That is strange for someone that can't guard guards
@TheChessRunner Steph curry would cook him. Just look at the olympic finals
😂😂😂😂😂😂 wemby can guard 1-15 aka the whole roster
Lu Dort
Too much defensive credit given to shot blocking instead of actually playing defense. Like Gobert plays any defense, shtt.
Rudy definitely plays defense
he'll being asking to change the mvp award if shai doesn't win this year 😂😂😂 bro wants participation awards handed out now