Finn Smith was already coming to Saints with or without Worcester going bust - the signing was accelerated when they did by Biggar going to France early - he was already leaving at the end of his contract. Langdon went to Worcester very briefly from Sale, then signed with Montpellier when they went bust. Saints brought him back from France. Sam Matavesi was first choice when he arrived, he has improved a lot with Saints. The only true "bust" signings Saints made straight into the matchday 23 were Pearson from Irish and Odendaal from Wasps - both of whom have spent significant chunks of this season injured, and with Hutchinson and Ludlam / Sam Graham in the squad, Saints continued winning anyway. So... I disagree we don't make the final without other clubs going bankrupt. Saints have finished in an away playoff position for 3 out of the previous 4 campaigns. The missing components were a decent defence and a better scrum - we got the former by signing Lee Radford, not a specific player, and the latter has got a lot to do with Trevor Davidson joining from Falcons. We always primarily struggled for a tighthead who could stay fit and cause looseheads problems - "Big Trev" as Flats has christened him on the commentary is definitely the unsung hero of the Saints pack and key to the change in scrummaging performance in the first hour.
Finn Smith was rumoured to be moving to Saints but that was with the shanigans of the Worcester cowboy owners going on in the background which had been causing player unrest for a while. We will never know if that move would have been completed under differing circumstances. My thoughts are that he would have remained a Warriors player for at least a few more seasons as he was getting recognition and regular game time playing with a crop of young lads that he had come through the academy with along with. Curtis Langdon looked superb in the few games he had for Warriors after a managed return from injury.
@@dichiopipe It wasn't rumoured, it was planned, he was always going to replace Biggar ,the shanigans just brought it forward and Fin Smith joined Saints before Worchester collapsed
I think Moon massively flies under the radar, he is so, so good at doing all the dirty work around the park. The amount of rucks he hits and tackles he makes is really impressive. I think we're going to really miss him when he leaves for Bayonne, he's not a big name but we look better when he plays
i heard in an interview that fin smith was going to join saints and the end of the season when worcester went under to replace dan bigger. worcester going under solidified his choice in the end.
Absolutely. But Worcester would've kept him had they had not been in a pickle. Steve Diamond said he was the next England 10 as soon as he arrived. Shame. But glad he's at Saints.
I'm a Bath fan but fully expect Saints to take it and deservedly so. They are an excellent team and, while we are a country mile from the dark days of 2 years ago, we don't feel like more than the sum of our parts yet. Saints very much do with some excellent players there too. That being said, it's one match and anything could happen! Embracing the underdog status and taking it as a shot to nothing on an upwards trajectory. Great perspective Tim, thanks for plugging away and sharing the great spectacle of the domestic scene.
Moon and Roux play 4, Coles and Ewels play 5. For that reason I’d have to take Moon and Coles, they’ve been so good this year. Both absolute workhorses, makes a ridiculous amount of tackles and also carry well.
- excellent point about the players from clubs gone bust. As a long time Worcester follower we historically provided top players to other clubs to the detriment of our own position. It said a lot about the poor management at the club before it went under.
Northampton deserved favourites. Bath front row edges it, but Northampton locks are superb. But if N’ton forwards are 2% off the pace, or Finn Russell has a blinder, Bath can do it. It’s probably a year too early for Bath, but N’ton will need to be on it.
I supported Wasps, gutted when they went bust, they had a brilliant set of players just coming back to their best. I always watch with interest when ex Wasps are playing, eg the Willis brothers, Alfi B, etc. I think it’s a Saints win.
I get the point that Saints have given away the 2nd most penalties in the Prem, but would be interesting (if the stats are available) to see where they are giving them away... If in the opposition half, then not so much of a risk (in terms of points conceded or likely yellow cards), if in their own half then more problematic as you say...
Fraser Dingwall over Cameron Redpath. Dingwall was probably the best Saints player against Leinster. He was great again against Saracens. So reliable, involved in every play, hands, timing, i find he is a level above Redpath.
I think Bath have done fantastically to get to the final and, though I’m certain they’d want to win, will see that as a great achievement given where they’ve come from whereas Saints have been the best team in the league and lost in previous seasons; anything but a win will be a huge disappointment. This is why I’m edging towards Saints to win. Though I’d be more than happy for Bath. My sentiments are as difficult to split as these teams. Really looking forward to this final!
Tough one to call. On balance, I think Northamptons defence will carry the day. Both sides will score tries but Northampton, as you say, seem happy to trust their defence. Northampton by 6
Regarding the demise of those clubs, it's obviously sad and clear the other clubs have benefited but there's an argument England have also benefitted with rhe concentration of talent, better faciltiies for those players, more elite management and elite players arouns them. Take Ollie Lawrence, he's improved massively since being at Bath, same with Ted Hill, Barbery injuries are being managed better etc etc
My money is on Northampton , two great backrows going at it . Two great sets of halfbacks , back 3 Northhants , centres 50-50 , front five Langdon the standout . Abano overrated . Best match up Hill vs Lawes
Bare with me, but I'm gonna be a bit defensive about the players recruited from bust clubs because it will 100% be used as a stick to beat whichever team wins on Saturday by rival fans It is 3 fold: 1. The most influential signings this season would have been at Bath or Saints anyway this season (Russell, Smith, Davidson, Du Toit). 2 all these players were available to every club in the league. Why didn't they sign them? This brings me to the final point: 3. You can't really separate these players from Wasps, Worcester, and London Irish from the broader topic of excellent recruitment and coaching. Why didn't saracens sign Lawrence or Odendaal? Why didn't leicester sign Pearson? Why didn't Sale keep faith with Langdon? Describing it as anything like scavenging off the unfortunate demise of these clubs is actually a really unfair characterisation and quite sinister. Big fan of the channel BTW and I know that's not what you're trying to say Tim. But rival fans definitely will.
Yep. Not in the slightest what I'm saying. But these two teams highlight the impact those clubs going bust have had. And opportunity to remember what a sh*t show their loss was.
@EggchasersRugby absolutely agree. It will never not be a massive shame to lose those clubs. And I have no issue with fans of those clubs claiming the success. Just leicester, saracens, or gloucester fans claiming it's the reason for success.
@@AlfredTheGreatestEverLeicester will always have a pop because they are Saints closest rivals. Gloucester fans moan at anything to justify why they aren’t successful. Not sure Saracens fans have done this but might just have missed it. That all said look at the former academy players that Saints put out each week, there is your basis for the team and the success.
Love Finn Russel. Bath should have been relegated 2 years ago. Not a particular Saints fan but I'd rather they won it just because they have thrived despite the awful administration of the sport we love rather than benefiting from it.
EXCELLENT evaluation Tim • you are doing a masterful job and speak with gravitas Great going Let us see • INTERESTING TIMES Think the Saints a shorthead advantage Though : Twick is going to burst wide open at the seams with this one • Really fantastic to look forward to • Thanks again for a really great job on this AND for wheréver you go on behalf of RF ~ the super great Game beste ex ZA🥂 👊🔥 🪖
Finn Smith was already coming to Saints with or without Worcester going bust - the signing was accelerated when they did by Biggar going to France early - he was already leaving at the end of his contract.
Langdon went to Worcester very briefly from Sale, then signed with Montpellier when they went bust. Saints brought him back from France. Sam Matavesi was first choice when he arrived, he has improved a lot with Saints.
The only true "bust" signings Saints made straight into the matchday 23 were Pearson from Irish and Odendaal from Wasps - both of whom have spent significant chunks of this season injured, and with Hutchinson and Ludlam / Sam Graham in the squad, Saints continued winning anyway.
So... I disagree we don't make the final without other clubs going bankrupt. Saints have finished in an away playoff position for 3 out of the previous 4 campaigns. The missing components were a decent defence and a better scrum - we got the former by signing Lee Radford, not a specific player, and the latter has got a lot to do with Trevor Davidson joining from Falcons. We always primarily struggled for a tighthead who could stay fit and cause looseheads problems - "Big Trev" as Flats has christened him on the commentary is definitely the unsung hero of the Saints pack and key to the change in scrummaging performance in the first hour.
Finn Smith was rumoured to be moving to Saints but that was with the shanigans of the Worcester cowboy owners going on in the background which had been causing player unrest for a while. We will never know if that move would have been completed under differing circumstances. My thoughts are that he would have remained a Warriors player for at least a few more seasons as he was getting recognition and regular game time playing with a crop of young lads that he had come through the academy with along with.
Curtis Langdon looked superb in the few games he had for Warriors after a managed return from injury.
@@dichiopipe It wasn't rumoured, it was planned, he was always going to replace Biggar ,the shanigans just brought it forward and Fin Smith joined Saints before Worchester collapsed
I think Moon massively flies under the radar, he is so, so good at doing all the dirty work around the park. The amount of rucks he hits and tackles he makes is really impressive. I think we're going to really miss him when he leaves for Bayonne, he's not a big name but we look better when he plays
Should have been given a chance by Borthwick.
80 minute player who noticeably adds power to the scrum and maul and does a lot of work clearing out. Reminds me a lot of Geroge Kruis.
Great spectacle for the nuetral, and I’m hoping for a proper showcase final that highlights all that is good about the Prem and English rugby…
I'm buzzing. It will be spectacular and massive final. All the best for both teams.
Mayanavanua is the replacement lock you were trying to think of. He was our starter at the front end of the season until he got injured.
i heard in an interview that fin smith was going to join saints and the end of the season when worcester went under to replace dan bigger. worcester going under solidified his choice in the end.
Yeh, he was on the way anyway.
Absolutely. But Worcester would've kept him had they had not been in a pickle. Steve Diamond said he was the next England 10 as soon as he arrived. Shame. But glad he's at Saints.
Shoe Army all the way 😇
Love that nickname!
I'm a Bath fan but fully expect Saints to take it and deservedly so. They are an excellent team and, while we are a country mile from the dark days of 2 years ago, we don't feel like more than the sum of our parts yet. Saints very much do with some excellent players there too.
That being said, it's one match and anything could happen! Embracing the underdog status and taking it as a shot to nothing on an upwards trajectory.
Great perspective Tim, thanks for plugging away and sharing the great spectacle of the domestic scene.
I'm in agreement, but Bath seem to have that dog in them. If it's close Bath could edge it. COYB
Tim…It’s black, green and gold 🖤💚💛
Oh no it's not, it's green, black and gold 🤣
Redpath over Dingwall!? No chance! Think you've been kind to Bath's backs here in the interest of impartiality! Another great video Tim.
Dingwall is a great player, but can't run through contact and get the gainline tbf
@@nickuplands Bro, you watched him lately? Breaks the gainline with superb footwork nearly every time...
Best vid yet?? Great callout to the bankruptcy brigade, too.
Am feeling Northampton by a whisker.
Moon and Roux play 4, Coles and Ewels play 5. For that reason I’d have to take Moon and Coles, they’ve been so good this year. Both absolute workhorses, makes a ridiculous amount of tackles and also carry well.
- excellent point about the players from clubs gone bust. As a long time Worcester follower we historically provided top players to other clubs to the detriment of our own position. It said a lot about the poor management at the club before it went under.
See he done his research and knowing who the replacement 2nd is
Northampton deserved favourites. Bath front row edges it, but Northampton locks are superb. But if N’ton forwards are 2% off the pace, or Finn Russell has a blinder, Bath can do it. It’s probably a year too early for Bath, but N’ton will need to be on it.
Obano was struggling with Millar-Mills the other week.
I supported Wasps, gutted when they went bust, they had a brilliant set of players just coming back to their best. I always watch with interest when ex Wasps are playing, eg the Willis brothers, Alfi B, etc. I think it’s a Saints win.
As a neutral 51-50 dont mind who wins, extra time would be nice for tension.
Who's the 51?
I get the point that Saints have given away the 2nd most penalties in the Prem, but would be interesting (if the stats are available) to see where they are giving them away... If in the opposition half, then not so much of a risk (in terms of points conceded or likely yellow cards), if in their own half then more problematic as you say...
Fraser Dingwall over Cameron Redpath. Dingwall was probably the best Saints player against Leinster. He was great again against Saracens. So reliable, involved in every play, hands, timing, i find he is a level above Redpath.
Like both teams - but hope that the Saints do it - for Courtney Lawes. A great player and a very good man!
Augustus can't play for Boks v Wales as match is outside test window. Same reason Handre Pollard, RG Snyman etc can't play.
I think Bath have done fantastically to get to the final and, though I’m certain they’d want to win, will see that as a great achievement given where they’ve come from whereas Saints have been the best team in the league and lost in previous seasons; anything but a win will be a huge disappointment. This is why I’m edging towards Saints to win. Though I’d be more than happy for Bath. My sentiments are as difficult to split as these teams. Really looking forward to this final!
Tough one to call. On balance, I think Northamptons defence will carry the day. Both sides will score tries but Northampton, as you say, seem happy to trust their defence. Northampton by 6
Regarding the demise of those clubs, it's obviously sad and clear the other clubs have benefited but there's an argument England have also benefitted with rhe concentration of talent, better faciltiies for those players, more elite management and elite players arouns them. Take Ollie Lawrence, he's improved massively since being at Bath, same with Ted Hill, Barbery injuries are being managed better etc etc
All Saints players have put on a bit more muscle this season.
More post contact metres.
Saints by a single point
I’d take it.
Weren't Wasps in a final 5 years ago (I think they lost to Exeter). Nuts to think they then went bust
Close game but Saints take it for me!
Saints got more tickets due to the semi final being on Friday sadly
Well as my Royal Marine PTI used to say ‘it pays to be a winner’ COYS!
Remember Bath of old. Nothing for 16 years. Hope their time is now. Big Guscott fan from years ago.
My money is on Northampton , two great backrows going at it . Two great sets of halfbacks , back 3 Northhants , centres 50-50 , front five Langdon the standout . Abano overrated . Best match up Hill vs Lawes
Finn Russell seems to bottle it in big games
Examples please.
Should Bath and Northamptons penalties conceded be reversed? Cause Northampton being 9th sounds like they conceded very little not a lot
Sleightholme does not tackle!
Ben Spencer over Mitchell imo
Bare with me, but I'm gonna be a bit defensive about the players recruited from bust clubs because it will 100% be used as a stick to beat whichever team wins on Saturday by rival fans
It is 3 fold:
1. The most influential signings this season would have been at Bath or Saints anyway this season (Russell, Smith, Davidson, Du Toit).
2 all these players were available to every club in the league. Why didn't they sign them? This brings me to the final point:
3. You can't really separate these players from Wasps, Worcester, and London Irish from the broader topic of excellent recruitment and coaching.
Why didn't saracens sign Lawrence or Odendaal?
Why didn't leicester sign Pearson?
Why didn't Sale keep faith with Langdon?
Describing it as anything like scavenging off the unfortunate demise of these clubs is actually a really unfair characterisation and quite sinister.
Big fan of the channel BTW and I know that's not what you're trying to say Tim. But rival fans definitely will.
Yep. Not in the slightest what I'm saying. But these two teams highlight the impact those clubs going bust have had. And opportunity to remember what a sh*t show their loss was.
@EggchasersRugby absolutely agree. It will never not be a massive shame to lose those clubs. And I have no issue with fans of those clubs claiming the success.
Just leicester, saracens, or gloucester fans claiming it's the reason for success.
@@AlfredTheGreatestEverLeicester will always have a pop because they are Saints closest rivals. Gloucester fans moan at anything to justify why they aren’t successful. Not sure Saracens fans have done this but might just have missed it.
That all said look at the former academy players that Saints put out each week, there is your basis for the team and the success.
Love Finn Russel. Bath should have been relegated 2 years ago. Not a particular Saints fan but I'd rather they won it just because they have thrived despite the awful administration of the sport we love rather than benefiting from it.
What a load of crap
EXCELLENT evaluation Tim
• you are doing a masterful job
and speak with gravitas
Great going
Let us see
• INTERESTING TIMES
Think the Saints a shorthead advantage
Though : Twick is going to burst wide open at the seams with this one
• Really fantastic to look forward to
• Thanks again for a really great job on this
AND for wheréver you go on behalf of RF ~ the super great Game
beste ex ZA🥂
👊🔥
🪖