Absolutely incredible review!!! I was literally in between these two bikes as I am doing research for a long tour...not quite sure where yet. Thank you for the information and I can't wait to check out the rest of your channel!
I was in the market, took both bikes out for an extensive ride, that KTM engine! Anyway, when all was said and done, I walked out of a KTM Dealership with the KTM 1290 Super Adventure with factory panniers for $16499, the equally equipped BMW GSA with panniers was $26,000 and my local BMW would not budge off that price. My decision was easy!
I had a very similar experience. Ktm for me, and I'm glad for it. The motor is just so so good. One of, if not the very best motors in motorcycling. 1290 SA
Going to my KTM dealer this week, this is going to be the deciding factor for me as well, who can I get the best deal from on end of season 2018's... BMW or KTM?
Great review MSDF but yes what tacjam 1 said. BMW is nearly $10,000 more than the KTM . Which leaves alot of spending money for upgrades and Trip expenses.
The KTM would be like the gal you want to party and have fun all night long, the BMW would be the gal you want to settle down with. Another really nice and interesting review sir! Cheers!
Actually if you like off-roading a bit the KTM will make you feel a lot like a Dakar racer (see: suspension) vs an SUV driver that can get there (but not always). P.S. I owned both bikes (or variants).
Hi, I’m getting very interested in motorcycling quite late in life. I would like to complement you on the way you present your articles. I’ll keep watching thank you.
The 1200 GS was and is a great motorcycle but I love the KTM. Does just about everything a little better - even though it is not really about that in the end. It needed a better windscreen (I have the Givi) and the powerparts (softer) seat. I have had it for 17k km now and I would not trade back ;-)
Mr Flyer, great review as always. But in all fairness, your GS (as good as it is) is a 2014 model. That's not fair. The new GS: the gearbox is much better, the shifter/blipper is much better, & the TFT is probably the best screen in the world at the moment. The fact that it doesn't have issues with glare or sun like others. Also, the KTM would be more suited up against the GSA. The big thing that gets me with all riders that say the KTM has more power, & the BMW should get more, is ridiculous. Think about it gentleman. You don't want a motor that eggs you on to blast it when your selecting a touring/cruising bike. For example like the Super Duke, Ducati Monster, & all super-sport bikes. Im a '16 S1000RR rider, and unless your in the 6k, 7k, or 8k zone and up, your not enjoying the bike. This is what their made for, to blast like a bat out of hell. Sport bikes are boring when cruising. So with my "Sports-bike/power on tap" mentality, I was disappointed when I jumped on the GS for a test ride. The "Docile" style motor, the boxer, was not up to it (like the KTM riders say)......Until the penny dropped!!!! I realised the motor wasn't egging me on to blast it all the time. Hence the ride was much more sophisticated, smooth and enjoyable. Then I opened it up, due to a possible emergency situation, (as a moron was about to pull out) and ALAS!!!! She pulled me forward like a sports bike. I then learnt a big lesson gentleman! You want the bike to do what it was made to do, but always have that "power blast" on tap. This is when I realised the "Docile" boxer motor, was a peach. No V-Twin can give you that smooth "Rolls Royce" feeling when cruising. Yes it will have loads of torque & power, but at a sacrifice to sophistication. Although, they are getting better and better in todays fantastic motorcycle industry. So if you want a touring/cruising/off road bike, you cannot beat the GS. If you want that thrill of the motor, then buy a V-Twin-torque blaster like a Monster R, or the Super Duke. And if you can only afford just one bike... then you've got your work cut out for you. But much easier these days with all the technology on tap. Yes its each to their own on selection of bike. But try your best to think of the style of riding you will be wanting to do. The decision might be much easier than you think. And on that note, the GS doesn't need more power. It just needs to be lighter, which in return, will make it faster. Cheers Mr Flyer.....keep groovin' like you have been ;-)
Wayne B, I guess you are right Wayne, but my point was that the GS has been tweaked every year by BMW. eg: the quickshifter/blipper was retro fitted to Mr Flyer's bike as it didnt come out until later on. Also gearbox & suspension settings have changed dramatically as well. My mate has the 2014 GS, and another buddy has the 2017. When you ride both, the 17 just feels that much more refined than the 14, in all aspects, much smoother. So it would only be fair if the exact same years were put up against each other, as the BMW is a far better bike in 2017 than 2014. Still though, all in all, it was nice to see the comparison through Mr Flyer's eyes. The input from others always gives you a bit more to look out for when testing yourself. But picking between the two is a real shame as both are such sweet bikes. Cheers groover ;-)
i would like to ask about why you didnt talk about telelever and paralever (bmw certified and copyrighted suspension technology) and the other most important thing is boxer engine which has less consumption and alive with low revolution(torque). and all of these two units we must add the center of the gravity of these two motorcycles which is lower with bmw. best regards ;)
you actually mentioned boxer engine but i couldnt hear about telelever-paralever and center of gravity. but look at the bright side; there is a new topic for a new video for you man ;)
Great video got to the crux of a topic many bikers want to know, many of us aspire to one or the other, must be great to have both in the garage 👍 fyi in general manouverability is key for me cos of limited space, i have to get in and out of my back gate, you are one of the only vloggers who cover this, for instance the new BMWR18 wouldnt fit in my bike store, beautiful bike but only for those with a large drive/garage. Those of us living in more economy properties appreciate your manouverability comments 👍
Have tried both, and agree both brilliant. The KTM wins with things I don't really need, like better engine and gearbox and great looks, but the BMW wins on things I do need, like comfort, low speed handling, luggage space and easy to push around in the garage and into the back entrance to the hotel-ness. Still don't like the new models enough to spend all that money on a new model though. (That KTM gearbox is very smooth, but will it last as long, and anyone who has taken a GS clutch apart will tell you there's nothing to match it). All right I give in. If you gave me anything else, I'd still buy a GS.
The GS gearbox is junk! maybe better on 2018 models, but on my 2016, it came straight out of a 1950 Deutz tractor. Even old Guzzi's are better. And don't have me talking about the absurd drive-line lash of my bike after 20.000 kms of just stupid commuting
Excellent detailed comparison. However, I wish bike reviewers would begin to address the largest concern for every rider in the UK - security! Can you fit a big chain through the frame or swing arm? What does the bike come with stock to prevent theft? These adventure bikes are HUGE targets for theives.
MUNRO MUSIC I have just bought the new GS Rallye version. It came with alarm, immobilizer and yes, you can get a BIG chain through the frame at various positions.
@munro. Have look at the Pragmasis site for their anti-pinch pin. This goes through the hollow swing arm on bikes like the bmw, with a 19mm chain either side to ground anchor (or other immovable object if parking up when out and about ) and squire lock. You can also option an alarm with the bmw.
Great review. One thing I have to criticise; kTm has "Favourites" you can "customise" for quick access to your favourite settings. So I can't let you away with that the BMW has the more user friendly controls. 😂 However. If done a similar comparison for myself and for me there is only one winner. Don't get me wrong. The other is a fantastic bike but after riding it all day I can only say "Yes, I rode a motorcycle today" while after getting on an after the second turn I have a massive grin on my face with the winning bike and getting off at night I can only say "that was awesome!". So for me the kTm is the winner and always will be. Even with the looks, as the Beamer looks like the built in flush buttons on my toilet. Which raises for me the question if it was there where the Germans got their inspiration for the design of the BMW? 😂 But I agree. Those two bikes are so damn close, for somone new to adventure bikes, it will be a decision made by the gut. So here I am looking forward to the banter and slagging matches between me and my kTm riding friends and the Beamer riding friends in years to come. 😂😂😂
Your killing me Mr Flyer...I will be buying a adventure bike in the spring and was hoping there would be a overwhelming winner...Appreciate your honesty...Keep it up.
Have you tried the more sensible 1090 engine? Another factor for me is dealer support, BMW supply spares next day and the coffee is, usually, free. I have never seen a KTM dealer not based in farm buildings, except in Bayreuth where I was visiting last week....
mine is tucked away on an industrial estate , they also sell mowers and chain saws, i did like the ktm engine but the finish of the bike was like the dealer left a bit to be desired,
Another interesting review TMF. Great to meet you at the NEC today in action filming the Yamaha Niken, look forward to your review on that sometime. Cheers
Great comparison. I've got an older GSA (2010) and a new 1290 Super Advanture S, so while I can't make the exact same comparison, I do have reasonable experience of both. I'm not a fan of the quick shifter on the KTM and from what you say I will ask the dealer to check mine! The one thing you leave out entirely is the heat on the KTM. I get loads of heat off the rear cylinder once the whole bike is warm. And I don't mean while sitting in traffic, I mean when running down the motorway, doing normal motorway speeds!! The dealer has tried a few things to improve it but for me its a real problem. By the way, the KTM dealer is good and is definitely not based in an old farm building, plus offers free tea!!
Great review. I have tried the BWM GS Adventure but for my height and the want to be off road sometimes meant that I went with KTM 1290 Adventure R purely based on the quality of the bikes and the type of riding like to do. Even if not off road sometimes, cisyt wise i would still go with the KTM. not sure the BMWs are worth the price difference.
You'd buy a GSA, unless you bought ......an RT. I watched your 5 things I hate about the GS, and reckoned every issue would be solved by the RT. Maybe another comparison ....I've just got my RT after 37yrs and find it a very easy machine to handle, keeps the weather off too,many people nod at me ;-)
Just tried the Super A for size at Motorcycle Live - Found it a lot taller than my standard chassis low seat GS. I could only just brush the floor with tip toes. I'm also 5'8" but have shorter 29" legs.
My finger was hovering over the unsubscribe button but fortunately the Beemer didn't get trashed. Okay only kidding, if I could afford it I'd have both in my garage. Unfortunately, rego in Australia is more expensive than a gambling addiction, not to mention the service cost on my GS. Well executed comparison, thanks.
Great vid, I own both bikes as well. I made the mistake of watching Long Way Round too many times, fellin love with the concept then test driving a BMW GSA . Purchased a new one the following week, within a few months it felt slow and the speed shifting didnt work. Then I test drove the KTM 1290 SAR and man WOW, this thing is a beast. I prefer much more than the GSA , I am keeping both because I have too much money into the GSA to loose and I have the room. For all those out there, definitely test drive a 1290 before buying a GS!
Another one of your excellent comparison reviews. My only nitpick would be that you're comparing a modern 2018 transmission on the KTM vs the 4 year old transmission on your GS. I'm not talking about the maintenance of the transmission, it's just that I've read quite a bit that BMW has updated lots of the mechanicals of GS for 2017 and 2018. Maybe you've adjusted for that. One more thing. Girls in the USA love BMW bikes, partially because they think you're rich. Maybe the GS and RT are considered to be "old man's bikes," but I haven't experienced that. Of course, I'm old.
Rich=old. In belgium the GS has just the same "cocks drive GS's image (see old top gear for audi's)" image. The GS gearbox was shite and actually unacceptable for this kind of price range. You realize that once you've owned an 1190/1290 adventure KTM
For me, there are several compelling features that have influenced my decision to purchase BMW's over the years: 1: 3-year unlimited mileage warranty with 24/7 Roadside-Assist (bear in mind I am reporting from Canada), 2: Alarm/immobilizer/key-less ride (not sure if KTM is key-less yet?) 3: Resale value - BMW's seem to hold a higher resale value. And then there is the chain issue......! Thanks for another great review - you continue to describe and report well the real-World experience which generally differs from professional journalists. Keep up the good work.
Both fantastic bikes, but I got the KTM simply because of the motor. 170hp and a bucket load of torque. Much like a sports bike that doubles as an adventure tourer or vice versa.
I believe the comparison between the GS (not the GSA!) is much more relevant,, when comparing it to its Austrian rival. Personnally sold my 2016 GS to buy the 1190 adventure, which I love much, much more. But i'm not 35 yet...I'm just as happy about my (older) KTM panniers as I was from my Vario panniers (which are excruciatingly expensive). engine on my KTM is much more fun, "accelerates like a rocket" indeed, makes a much nicer noise (certainly with Wings exhaust), has a little less torque low down but more than makes up for it. The only thing where the GS has the KTM, is suspension polyvalence (and much less dive on braking) and yes, the road handling is fantastic and the engine has way sufficient power and low end grunt. I'd also say my long legs (i'm 1.90m) were also a bit better on the GS. Weather protection: get a Vario screen on the KTM and it's much better than the standard GS (which as standard, does get better protection indeed). I'm sick and tired of people buyin' GS's just because of credentials and BMW badge. However, when I tested the new 1290 Superadv S, it had the well known fork clunking (fork cartridge faulty?), which I hated. But my story goes to show you can have shitty GS's and very nice KTM's. He's right about the user-friendlyness of the switchgear, however, my GS switches got sticky after cleaning a few times, which I don't have on my 1190. Fact is, I have been disappointed by the GS. If I was to do it again (well actually, no I just love my 1190 and really don't wanna get rid of it, for once), I'd seriously look at the 1290 or even the 1090 (which I rode and was also great fun, but no match for an 1190). Absurd thing is that, when I got it as a replacement vehicle during maintenance of my LC GS, I just loved the LC RT (noice, performance, comfort)
This was the most awesome very detailed comparison between these two incredible motorcycles. At age 71, I lean more towards comfort. I rode a very comfortable Harley Davidson Fatboy for several years and I guess that spoiled me. Twenty years ago it would have been KTM all the way. In Maui, Hawaii, I owned a Honda Superhawk with the 996 motor and I couldn't throttle it out on the island as much as I tried...136 on Haleakala Highway's 7 mile straight stretch was the best I could get. For me, the BMW would be my choice. At 5'7" on a KTM I don't think my heels would ever touch the ground at stops unless I lean the bike heavily to one side.
Hi. Interesting comparison. Thanks for that. Don't forget that the 17 GS has a much improved gearbox, as good as anything I've ever used, plus the auto suspension which is fantastic. Still a very close call though. Guess we're lucky to have two superb bikes to choose from.
I got fed up with the press saying how good they were - Too tall for me and an old man's bike.....I then got overtaken by one on a trackday at Cadwell Park so took one out for a test ride to see what the fuss was about and was shocked how it well it handled, the grunt out of corners and that I could reach the ground. I've now had mine for nearly 3 years.
This must be a UK thing. I don't see too many BMWs at all. When I do, my first thought is that that guy probably knows more about bikes than the average bear. In the US it's all Harleys all the time. When I see them, I have the opposite thought. I still wave to them all. Something we can do here where we drive on the correct side of the road ;)
Correct side of the road? Hmmm, let me see. If i was in Europe/USA, and stopped on the right hand side of the road and placed my bike stand down, the bike would be leaning into the lane. Then, I would get off the bike (on the left hand side) and step into the lane of on coming vehicles. Hmmm, but hang on a second !!! If I were in the UK/AUS, I would stop on the left hand side of the road. I would put my stand down, and the bike would lean away from the traffic in the lane, and I would get off the bike (left hand side) and I would be on the curb/footpath safely out of the way. WOW!!! That's amazing!!! ;-) Keep on groovin' on.....
The GS wins for me, it's so iconic. I'm biased simply because I'm on the lookout for a used one as I write this! I'm sure the KTM is fabulous, but I just can't get past the looks.
Great video and i agree with your summary. Have you tried the KTM 1090 Adv R, i would be interested in your thoughts. I am sure Jason will loan you one and a ladder !!
-In comfort the BMW is better; -The Windshield, i think is very subjective; -The seat on the KTM has 2 positions! But yes, it's higher (but lighter than the GS and the GSA); -The KTM has more equipment (standard, no extras); -The shaft doesn't need the maintenance as the chain, but is heavier and if has problems, is much more expensive; -Regarding the fun factor, i think that the KTM is not probably the winner; it's undoubtedly the winner; -The panniers, i don't know because never used any of the original, but it's also subjective due to the options we have on the market; -The TFT from the BMW (Bosch, as the one equipped on the KTM), i think it's better; they waited one more year to "develop" better the system; -The KTM will have navigation too; -The TFT comes standard with the KTM but on the BMW is an extra... -KTM has offroad mode standard; BOTH are great bikes! It's a matter of taste, and money of course. The important is Thanks
Cloggsy Goodwin The sheer fear displayed by the KTM representatives that they’re bikes would be put through that level of punishment was very revealing at the time.
The qualifiers “edges out” and “by far” matter in this review; the nuisances sure add up! What I’d also like to know is cost of ownership. I gave up Beemers a few years ago because of the cost of ownership - wondering if it was just my experience or an across the board reality. Also, spent half of my 50 years riding shaft bikes, the other half were chain drive. In my opinion, contemporary chains/sprockets (add a tooth, drop a tooth) are the way to go . . . “by far.” Thanks for another great review.
Pretty much agree with that as theres not much in it at all , for me i think it's the shaft drive that just about sways it ... as u say new ( fully loaded ) adventure bikes are shockingly expensive but wouldn't say no to either of em .... the insurance cost seems to be a bit of shocker on the ktm but hey ho that's life , top vid as always
Both great bikes. For me the GS wins because it has a shaft drive and the KTM loses because it is chain drive. Chains are a pain...too much PT, mess and fuss (esp when removing the rear wheel...getting greasy and having to retension the chain again). It is a deal-breaker for me.
At my GS's last service (20k km) they remove the rubber boot at the joint to check for corrosion because there is ANOTHER flaw in the new GS and water leaks in there and causes corrosion. So maybe the drive shaft is not as attractive anymore...
For touring I’d choose the GS adventure bigger tank, drive shaft (no chain lubing). Currently have the KTM 1290 Adventure R as I do more off road riding here in South Africa.
Although, I completely agree with all the points you give to the KTM, I feel that some of them are irrelevant advantages for someone on the market for these big adventure bikes. For example, the nuclear engine the KTM has. Is that really that important for someone who wants a "one bike to do it all", or someone who prioritises touring? The way I see it, the GS wins points where it matters most. For me it's the winner. But with the KTM being an equally excellent bike.
TheMissendenFlyer Yes of course. I didn't mean to say that I disagree with your verdict or your process of comparing the two. Just taking the discussion further
As a GS owner who will likely get a 1290R for his next bike (that doubles as my car) the deciding factor for me is the motor. I love the GS motor, but there is something exceptional about the motor in the 1290 that I can't seem to shake.
I think when the pavement ends your choice would be more clear. I have owned both and when I took the GSA off road I truly felt like a fish out of water with no confidence. Now to be clear it was the GSA not the GS. I also find that all KTM's have a fun factor that the BMW's I have owned did not have. Both bikes are great but an adventure bike is a purpose built machine so a true all around comparison would be great to see. Wait till you give that 1290 a true off road test, it is actually remarkable of how well a 500lb bike does.....I think Chris Birch vids say it all. Great review as always.
Having owned and ridden both KTM and BMW i can honestly say the BMW is far more comfortable, found my buttocks went numb with 30 minutes of riding my KTM, made it impossible for long rides, might just be me.
Did you try a PP Ergo seat? Massively better, they should fit them as standard. At least they are not too pricey and also have a heated option which is fabulous. :)
When doing a trip for five days in Austria and riding at least 400km's a day this Autumn, I noticed my butt got used to the treatment and adapted to the 1190's relatively harsh standard seat. But yeah, the GS' triple black's seat is unquestionably more comfortable. And by the way, no need for a heated seat. All KTM V-twins come as standard with heated (in summer = baked) arse/thigh option :D
A Kali everyone on forums is complaining about the harsh KTM seats. After a while though you get used to it. It's not a goldwing for sure but it's decent. Our butts need to get used to some harshness
This could lead to an endless discussion! For me the BMW wins, if only because I am no longer wanting to do daft things on a bike. Comfort and useability for me. Boring!
Agreed...long touring and ease of use make it a nice bike to ride on long trips...I rather look at the scenery then fus with cleaning the chain, getting fuel all the time, and changing the suspension all the time..My GSA has me spoiled and even if the KTM is more exciting..I like a smooth uneventful ride with the cruise control on when I cover long miles. Much like you...Boring!
Great review as always! I rented a 2008 GS in australia that had about 150000km on it (and a rental so it had been dropped in all ways possible). It felt like a new bike, engine, brakes everything performed like new I was surprised considering how beat up it looked! My only grip is that it could lose 50lbs...otherwise super comfortable and pleasant to ride.
We nod because we ride on the other side of the road, and to wave we would have to take our right hand off the throttle. Nothing to do with being "snooty".lol.
Great review. I liked how you compared bit by bit. I thought you could have covered - dirt road handling - size of tank / fuel economy/ distance can travel between fills - braking - cost of servicing / intervals etc - insurance costs (understand that it also depends on the individual rider etc) - cost to purchase - value for money - reliability - what’s the most important comparison (not all ticks are of the same value (engine v looks I.e.). Not picking and it could go on forever I know - just a couple of important factors. That said I loved the review and subscribed.
I had a 2014 KTM Adventure R, I loved that gearbox and engine but it was just too tall for me to live with and I spent most of my time on the blacktop, I now have a 2017 R1200GS Rallye, fantastic bike, amazing suspension, super comfortable goes really well and like he says that wiz wheel for the electronics is brilliant, the engine is clunky and noisy as is the gearbox and I find the bike has no "fizz". I am considering going to the KTM Adventure S and getting the seat rebuilt to make it more comfortable because I really miss that V-twin engine and gearbox package, it just grunts out of corners, no shortage of fizz!
I question the value of BMW shaft drive advantage, my 2015 had to rebuild the final drive at 15,000 miles because BMW claimed stored on the side stand damaged the bearings cost $1,500 to overhaul, total rubbish bearings, not side stand issue, new final drives are a whopping $3,000 US and not rebuildable. I like the lower maintenance value of the shaft drive over messy chain drive, but at $3,000 plus labor, I'll take KTM chain drive any day. BMW Legendary durability is a total myth, I've owned 3 BMW R1200 GSA Hex head and 1 Water boxer. On the other hand KTM really needs to get its act together regarding comfort, seats are horrible, we laugh saying the reason KTM has such great suspension because it's too painful to sit down, you have to stand after the first hour. The new KTM 790 sets a whole new standard in brick hard seats, with zero attempt to fake comfort.
It's quite easy to get your seat to any level of padding you want. Not more than a 100-150 Euros in my country. I second the final drive/shaft drive issue. I had the same issue on a 2006 (bought from new) BMW GSA 1200 at just 22000 kms (bearings again). Moreover, the same bike managed to get a valve through a piston at 20.000kms and sput it out from the exhaust! (last month within guaranty - thankfully covered by BMW). Neddless to say that after the shaft drive issue that came second I traded her for a brand new 2009 KTM 990 adventure with R suspension. Great bike that last one! P.S. I also owned a regular BMW 2005 GS1200 that had terrible (dangerous) ABS and needed oil (from new) like a Greek salad. More than 500ml every 1000kms! That's the bike I traded for the GSA. I didn't pamper that GSA in break-in period and it didn't burn any oil at all. I think it was running lean though with the Akra exhaust - hence the catastrophic disintegration.
Excellent review TMF. Always a joy to watch. Seems that personal preferences are the deciding factor on this one, however, I my personal preferences are on par with yours. GSA it is!
the "GS rider is not a REAL rider" thing is nonsense... I'll be at the NEC show from London no doubt in the freezing rain..when a lot of the "REAL riders" will have tucked up their sports/naked/retro bikes for the winter and will have their bike covers glued to their bikes!
TheMissendenFlyer certainly a better way to ensure fonder memories of motorcycles... All said I see you are warming up to the more scaffold orientated GSA. I would like to get a Gsa myself with the vario cases and would value your opinion on such a pick and mix ))
will M Weird comment. I'm 40 and I think the BMW R nine T range are beautiful. And it's not a badge stigma, they are genuinely good bikes. See TMFs reviews
just signed the paperwork to trade my '16 GSw for the 1290 SA-S. Always wanted a KTM, decided I wasn't getting any younger. Your videos are quite helpful and no-nonsense, thanks for them. Looking forward to riding orange, though the GSw is a brilliant bike. But after now also putting 8K miles on a '17 Multistrada 1200-S, having all that power becomes a bit addictive...
Hi TMF. I think your comparison is valid. The old KTM adventure T was the GSA equivalent. But moving on you made two ommisions. No mention of fuel consumption and on to tank range/gauge accuracy. Lastly doesn't anyone else ride in the dark? What's the head light like on dip, full beam etc. Otherwise a very slick beautifully edited video. You are easy to listen to unlike Capitan Ram.....
I find it rather amusing when people say the GS is an old mans bike. That’s probably because we’ve had all the other bikes and now realise that the GS does everything well. It tours two up, is great for commuting, can go off road, and in the hands of a good rider will stay with all but the fastest sports bike- on the twisty roads. However, having owned 8 of them, I will say that the reliability should be better for the price. The switch gear fails and the and Alloy corrodes badly of not treated very carefully (acf 50) & cleaned with the right cleaner. For £15k-£20k these bikes should be better. Period.
Great comparison. I think the GS with the TFT option is pretty unbeatable and as a bike offers more all round use. It makes a great commuter as well brilliant for touring however commuting on the KTM...hmmm not convinced.
The best security is a lock and chain. Alarms, trackers etc all easy to get around. Make it difficult to move with a really good lock and chain. In any event, if they want it they will take it. Keep up the great videos TMF.
I was told by the triumph dealer that the moving luggage system, which also appears on the tiger, is to aid center of gravity when going around twisty bits. As the bike is tall, it's a way of shifting the c of g as the bike leans over! As I'm never going to be able to afford the bikes in the video, I don't really have a favourite, great video though, keep up the good work
TheMissendenFlyer that's exactly what I said, but apparently, when you lean a bike over, it makes a difference. I'm with you, can't see what actual difference it makes, why don't you ask, see what they say!
Great comparison Mr Flyer! I'm trying to make the decision between the KTM 1090 and 1190 or the 1200 GS adventure and it's so tough. So far the KTM brand has it on price being within budget as the Bmw is just over budget. If the right bmw came in on budget it would be almost impossible to split them!
I really do like the looks of the BMW. I also prefer the way it sounds (odd, I know) and I like the customisation options on the BMW with the Nav5/Nav 6. Wicked video. Always good to see the Beemer out and about.
Hi TMF enjoyed the vid as always. I think you'll have to try my lowered GSA it really is good, a full on GSA but you can get your feet down which is a massive confidence boost to me and really seems to take the weight out of it. Just be warned, you will want one. All the best JJ
coming of a k1200 gt, I'd never own another, that clunky shift drove me loopy you feel like a learner, no way to synch eng rpm with road speed, thanks for this Man
Love my GSA, but can’t deny the KTM is a great machine. Bit of a tough one doing a comparison, I commend you on having a long look at them both. Nice one TMF, enjoyed this one a lot.
Hei TMF, thank you for the detailed review and comparison I am checking the seat height and at least the ktm 2019 model mentions a ajustable seat 860 mm or 875 mm, was not availeble in the year your reviewd? How tall is the seat of your GS?
Both bikes are excellent. BMW is like German Volksmusik, the KTM is Rock and Roll. I buy the KTM last year. I am 1/4 Welsh and 3/4German by the way :-)
One category you missed that I am looking for is second hand on these two. Which one lasts the test of time. For 10 odd grand now you seem to get more for your money with KTM but do they last as well as BMW? Reliability could be part of this new category too.
Absolutely incredible review!!! I was literally in between these two bikes as I am doing research for a long tour...not quite sure where yet. Thank you for the information and I can't wait to check out the rest of your channel!
Good stuff! Welcome along.....
I was in the market, took both bikes out for an extensive ride, that KTM engine! Anyway, when all was said and done, I walked out of a KTM Dealership with the KTM 1290 Super Adventure with factory panniers for $16499, the equally equipped BMW GSA with panniers was $26,000 and my local BMW would not budge off that price. My decision was easy!
tacjam1 damn, that's a lot of money for about the same experience, i would take it in consideration as well.
strange, they are exactly expensive here in EU. No price advantange for KTM whatsoever. Must be some tax or intentional price dumping involved.
I had a very similar experience. Ktm for me, and I'm glad for it. The motor is just so so good. One of, if not the very best motors in motorcycling. 1290 SA
Going to my KTM dealer this week, this is going to be the deciding factor for me as well, who can I get the best deal from on end of season 2018's... BMW or KTM?
Great review MSDF but yes what tacjam 1 said. BMW is nearly $10,000 more than the KTM . Which leaves alot of spending money for upgrades and Trip expenses.
Great video but you missed 2 important points... range / mpg
and price...
First class motorcycle journalism as per usual. Thank you. Your opinion is highly valued.
Thank you Keith.....
TheMissendenFlyer . . The pleasure is entirely mine.
The KTM would be like the gal you want to party and have fun all night long, the BMW would be the gal you want to settle down with. Another really nice and interesting review sir! Cheers!
Nice comparison and I totally agree - except I'd be with the Super Duke R on party night.....
Well--I guess I'll follow my usual program and date the party girl until we fall out.lol
Actually if you like off-roading a bit the KTM will make you feel a lot like a Dakar racer (see: suspension) vs an SUV driver that can get there (but not always). P.S. I owned both bikes (or variants).
Well done. I would choose the same. Bmw does it for me with regards to comfort/power. I use it almost daily. I look forward to every ride!!
Hi,
I’m getting very interested in motorcycling quite late in life. I would like to complement you on the way you present your articles. I’ll keep watching thank you.
Thank you for your great review. I made the switch from a 2016 BMW R 1200 GS to the KTM 1290 super adventure s in January 2018.
...and what do you make of it?
The 1200 GS was and is a great motorcycle but I love the KTM. Does just about everything a little better - even though it is not really about that in the end. It needed a better windscreen (I have the Givi) and the powerparts (softer) seat. I have had it for 17k km now and I would not trade back ;-)
Mr Flyer, great review as always. But in all fairness, your GS (as good as it is) is a 2014 model. That's not fair. The new GS: the gearbox is much better, the shifter/blipper is much better, & the TFT is probably the best screen in the world at the moment. The fact that it doesn't have issues with glare or sun like others. Also, the KTM would be more suited up against the GSA.
The big thing that gets me with all riders that say the KTM has more power, & the BMW should get more, is ridiculous. Think about it gentleman. You don't want a motor that eggs you on to blast it when your selecting a touring/cruising bike. For example like the Super Duke, Ducati Monster, & all super-sport bikes. Im a '16 S1000RR rider, and unless your in the 6k, 7k, or 8k zone and up, your not enjoying the bike. This is what their made for, to blast like a bat out of hell. Sport bikes are boring when cruising. So with my "Sports-bike/power on tap" mentality, I was disappointed when I jumped on the GS for a test ride. The "Docile" style motor, the boxer, was not up to it (like the KTM riders say)......Until the penny dropped!!!!
I realised the motor wasn't egging me on to blast it all the time. Hence the ride was much more sophisticated, smooth and enjoyable. Then I opened it up, due to a possible emergency situation, (as a moron was about to pull out) and ALAS!!!! She pulled me forward like a sports bike. I then learnt a big lesson gentleman! You want the bike to do what it was made to do, but always have that "power blast" on tap. This is when I realised the "Docile" boxer motor, was a peach. No V-Twin can give you that smooth "Rolls Royce" feeling when cruising. Yes it will have loads of torque & power, but at a sacrifice to sophistication. Although, they are getting better and better in todays fantastic motorcycle industry. So if you want a touring/cruising/off road bike, you cannot beat the GS. If you want that thrill of the motor, then buy a V-Twin-torque blaster like a Monster R, or the Super Duke. And if you can only afford just one bike... then you've got your work cut out for you. But much easier these days with all the technology on tap. Yes its each to their own on selection of bike. But try your best to think of the style of riding you will be wanting to do. The decision might be much easier than you think. And on that note, the GS doesn't need more power. It just needs to be lighter, which in return, will make it faster. Cheers Mr Flyer.....keep groovin' like you have been ;-)
Thanks for watching and for stopping buy! All the best - TMF
the groove... thats like a blind date sum up!!!
The Groover A
This KTM is the street version (alloy wheels) so is the right bike to go up against the GS. The R version is the bike to put against the GSA.
Wayne B, I guess you are right Wayne, but my point was that the GS has been tweaked every year by BMW. eg: the quickshifter/blipper was retro fitted to Mr Flyer's bike as it didnt come out until later on. Also gearbox & suspension settings have changed dramatically as well. My mate has the 2014 GS, and another buddy has the 2017. When you ride both, the 17 just feels that much more refined than the 14, in all aspects, much smoother. So it would only be fair if the exact same years were put up against each other, as the BMW is a far better bike in 2017 than 2014. Still though, all in all, it was nice to see the comparison through Mr Flyer's eyes. The input from others always gives you a bit more to look out for when testing yourself. But picking between the two is a real shame as both are such sweet bikes. Cheers groover ;-)
You may not be a motoring journalist but this is one of the best comparison reviews on yt.
Thank you very much - appreciate the kind words....
i would like to ask about why you didnt talk about telelever and paralever (bmw certified and copyrighted suspension technology) and the other most important thing is boxer engine which has less consumption and alive with low revolution(torque). and all of these two units we must add the center of the gravity of these two motorcycles which is lower with bmw. best regards ;)
Err, I forgot??
TheMissendenFlyer ops. Did I miss that part? :/
No, I genuinely forgot....
you actually mentioned boxer engine but i couldnt hear about telelever-paralever and center of gravity. but look at the bright side; there is a new topic for a new video for you man ;)
Dostum senin eline su dökemezler zaten :D Canavarları araziye bile sokmamış. Hani ADVENTURE? :D
Great video got to the crux of a topic many bikers want to know, many of us aspire to one or the other, must be great to have both in the garage 👍 fyi in general manouverability is key for me cos of limited space, i have to get in and out of my back gate, you are one of the only vloggers who cover this, for instance the new BMWR18 wouldnt fit in my bike store, beautiful bike but only for those with a large drive/garage. Those of us living in more economy properties appreciate your manouverability comments 👍
Nice to hear that - thank you…
Have tried both, and agree both brilliant. The KTM wins with things I don't really need, like better engine and gearbox and great looks, but the BMW wins on things I do need, like comfort, low speed handling, luggage space and easy to push around in the garage and into the back entrance to the hotel-ness. Still don't like the new models enough to spend all that money on a new model though. (That KTM gearbox is very smooth, but will it last as long, and anyone who has taken a GS clutch apart will tell you there's nothing to match it). All right I give in. If you gave me anything else, I'd still buy a GS.
Glad we agree!
The GS gearbox is junk! maybe better on 2018 models, but on my 2016, it came straight out of a 1950 Deutz tractor. Even old Guzzi's are better. And don't have me talking about the absurd drive-line lash of my bike after 20.000 kms of just stupid commuting
This was a super review, just more interesting details and points. Where other reviews is like they just read the brochure for comments.... Good Job
Thank you!
when i see pannier reviews, no one ever asks to me the most important question..will it hold a full face helmet?
That was worth hitting the 'like button' for the 'Mini-me' impression thumbnail alone.
Excellent detailed comparison. However, I wish bike reviewers would begin to address the largest concern for every rider in the UK - security! Can you fit a big chain through the frame or swing arm? What does the bike come with stock to prevent theft? These adventure bikes are HUGE targets for theives.
MUNRO MUSIC I have just bought the new GS Rallye version. It came with alarm, immobilizer and yes, you can get a BIG chain through the frame at various positions.
Trackers should be fitted as standard on these bikes.
You have a good point Munro. Perhaps TMF should consider having that as a point in reviews.
A very good question
@munro. Have look at the Pragmasis site for their anti-pinch pin. This goes through the hollow swing arm on bikes like the bmw, with a 19mm chain either side to ground anchor (or other immovable object if parking up when out and about ) and squire lock. You can also option an alarm with the bmw.
Lovely comparison. Love your work, mate.
Thank you!
You should enter the items to add points, the reliability, guarantee and prices of the services by the brand
I really liked your review. I’m in the market for one again after selling my 2014 GSA last summer. It was nice seeing an honest non biased review.
Thanks very much for watching - appreciated!
Great review. One thing I have to criticise; kTm has "Favourites" you can "customise" for quick access to your favourite settings. So I can't let you away with that the BMW has the more user friendly controls. 😂
However. If done a similar comparison for myself and for me there is only one winner. Don't get me wrong. The other is a fantastic bike but after riding it all day I can only say "Yes, I rode a motorcycle today" while after getting on an after the second turn I have a massive grin on my face with the winning bike and getting off at night I can only say "that was awesome!". So for me the kTm is the winner and always will be.
Even with the looks, as the Beamer looks like the built in flush buttons on my toilet. Which raises for me the question if it was there where the Germans got their inspiration for the design of the BMW? 😂
But I agree. Those two bikes are so damn close, for somone new to adventure bikes, it will be a decision made by the gut. So here I am looking forward to the banter and slagging matches between me and my kTm riding friends and the Beamer riding friends in years to come. 😂😂😂
Cheers for the clarification Marc - all the best - TMF
Your killing me Mr Flyer...I will be buying a adventure bike in the spring and was hoping there would be a overwhelming winner...Appreciate your honesty...Keep it up.
Well I'd take the BMW, but it is close and only my personal opinion.....you'd be very happy with either bike. Enjoy!
$27,000 US plus $500 a yr. to insure for a GSA...Not sure I can justify that amount...lol :/
Have you tried the more sensible 1090 engine?
Another factor for me is dealer support, BMW supply spares next day and the coffee is, usually, free. I have never seen a KTM dealer not based in farm buildings, except in Bayreuth where I was visiting last week....
Mine is based in modern offices with free coffee ... they are also a Honda dealer/distributor, maybe that has something to do with it? ;)
My local KTM dealer (the KTM Centre in Hemel) is a pretty impressive place - certainly not farm buildings!
mine is tucked away on an industrial estate , they also sell mowers and chain saws, i did like the ktm engine but the finish of the bike was like the dealer left a bit to be desired,
My local KTM dealer is on an industrial estate in Loughborough. Take your sunglasses through, It's the most orange place you've ever seen!
Another interesting review TMF. Great to meet you at the NEC today in action filming the Yamaha Niken, look forward to your review on that sometime. Cheers
Thanks for saying "hi" Paul, great to meet you too....
Great comparison. I've got an older GSA (2010) and a new 1290 Super Advanture S, so while I can't make the exact same comparison, I do have reasonable experience of both. I'm not a fan of the quick shifter on the KTM and from what you say I will ask the dealer to check mine! The one thing you leave out entirely is the heat on the KTM. I get loads of heat off the rear cylinder once the whole bike is warm. And I don't mean while sitting in traffic, I mean when running down the motorway, doing normal motorway speeds!! The dealer has tried a few things to improve it but for me its a real problem. By the way, the KTM dealer is good and is definitely not based in an old farm building, plus offers free tea!!
...interesting, a few people have mentioned the heat, I had no issue at all on the bike I borrowed (mind you I'm used to riding a Panigale!)....
Great review. I have tried the BWM GS Adventure but for my height and the want to be off road sometimes meant that I went with KTM 1290 Adventure R purely based on the quality of the bikes and the type of riding like to do. Even if not off road sometimes, cisyt wise i would still go with the KTM. not sure the BMWs are worth the price difference.
Thank you, now I made my choice...KTM for sure
another excellent review from Mr. flyer. very professionally done. top marks. two great bikes, I still love my strom though!
Thanks for the kind comments - much appreciated! All the best - TMF
You'd buy a GSA, unless you bought ......an RT. I watched your 5 things I hate about the GS, and reckoned every issue would be solved by the RT. Maybe another comparison ....I've just got my RT after 37yrs and find it a very easy machine to handle, keeps the weather off too,many people nod at me ;-)
Just tried the Super A for size at Motorcycle Live - Found it a lot taller than my standard chassis low seat GS. I could only just brush the floor with tip toes. I'm also 5'8" but have shorter 29" legs.
32 might be the outside seam.
My finger was hovering over the unsubscribe button but fortunately the Beemer didn't get trashed. Okay only kidding, if I could afford it I'd have both in my garage. Unfortunately, rego in Australia is more expensive than a gambling addiction, not to mention the service cost on my GS. Well executed comparison, thanks.
Thanks for watching and for stopping buy! All the best - TMF
Great vid, I own both bikes as well. I made the mistake of watching Long Way Round too many times, fellin love with the concept then test driving a BMW GSA . Purchased a new one the following week, within a few months it felt slow and the speed shifting didnt work. Then I test drove the KTM 1290 SAR and man WOW, this thing is a beast. I prefer much more than the GSA , I am keeping both because I have too much money into the GSA to loose and I have the room. For all those out there, definitely test drive a 1290 before buying a GS!
Thanks for the feedback!
Have to say the KTM would had found the way to my garage...but in the 1090 form..
What do you have on your garage floor?
Great video
Err, flooring?
TheMissendenFlyer
Yes the black thing😁
It's from Costco....
Love this video! Definitely a tough choice between these two icons! Your review touches so many parts of the bikes that genuinely matter to owners!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Another one of your excellent comparison reviews. My only nitpick would be that you're comparing a modern 2018 transmission on the KTM vs the 4 year old transmission on your GS. I'm not talking about the maintenance of the transmission, it's just that I've read quite a bit that BMW has updated lots of the mechanicals of GS for 2017 and 2018. Maybe you've adjusted for that.
One more thing. Girls in the USA love BMW bikes, partially because they think you're rich. Maybe the GS and RT are considered to be "old man's bikes," but I haven't experienced that. Of course, I'm old.
Rich=old. In belgium the GS has just the same "cocks drive GS's image (see old top gear for audi's)" image. The GS gearbox was shite and actually unacceptable for this kind of price range. You realize that once you've owned an 1190/1290 adventure KTM
For me, there are several compelling features that have influenced my decision to purchase BMW's over the years: 1: 3-year unlimited mileage warranty with 24/7 Roadside-Assist (bear in mind I am reporting from Canada), 2: Alarm/immobilizer/key-less ride (not sure if KTM is key-less yet?) 3: Resale value - BMW's seem to hold a higher resale value. And then there is the chain issue......! Thanks for another great review - you continue to describe and report well the real-World experience which generally differs from professional journalists. Keep up the good work.
Thank you Chris - and yes the KTM does have keyless - that's what make s the insurance premiums so high!
Both fantastic bikes, but I got the KTM simply because of the motor. 170hp and a bucket load of torque. Much like a sports bike that doubles as an adventure tourer or vice versa.
excellent reviews and tests, love your channel! due to your test i bought a GS 1200 rally a couple of months ago
Nice one! ...if only I were on commission from BMW!
maybe you should but then you would sell your soul to BMW and we would say goodbye to your objective thoughts. keep up the good work!
I believe the comparison between the GS (not the GSA!) is much more relevant,, when comparing it to its Austrian rival. Personnally sold my 2016 GS to buy the 1190 adventure, which I love much, much more. But i'm not 35 yet...I'm just as happy about my (older) KTM panniers as I was from my Vario panniers (which are excruciatingly expensive). engine on my KTM is much more fun, "accelerates like a rocket" indeed, makes a much nicer noise (certainly with Wings exhaust), has a little less torque low down but more than makes up for it. The only thing where the GS has the KTM, is suspension polyvalence (and much less dive on braking) and yes, the road handling is fantastic and the engine has way sufficient power and low end grunt. I'd also say my long legs (i'm 1.90m) were also a bit better on the GS. Weather protection: get a Vario screen on the KTM and it's much better than the standard GS (which as standard, does get better protection indeed). I'm sick and tired of people buyin' GS's just because of credentials and BMW badge. However, when I tested the new 1290 Superadv S, it had the well known fork clunking (fork cartridge faulty?), which I hated. But my story goes to show you can have shitty GS's and very nice KTM's. He's right about the user-friendlyness of the switchgear, however, my GS switches got sticky after cleaning a few times, which I don't have on my 1190. Fact is, I have been disappointed by the GS. If I was to do it again (well actually, no I just love my 1190 and really don't wanna get rid of it, for once), I'd seriously look at the 1290 or even the 1090 (which I rode and was also great fun, but no match for an 1190). Absurd thing is that, when I got it as a replacement vehicle during maintenance of my LC GS, I just loved the LC RT (noice, performance, comfort)
...I'm going to have to look that up....
This was the most awesome very detailed comparison between these two incredible motorcycles. At age 71, I lean more towards comfort. I rode a very comfortable Harley Davidson Fatboy for several years and I guess that spoiled me. Twenty years ago it would have been KTM all the way. In Maui, Hawaii, I owned a Honda Superhawk with the 996 motor and I couldn't throttle it out on the island as much as I tried...136 on Haleakala Highway's 7 mile straight stretch was the best I could get. For me, the BMW would be my choice. At 5'7" on a KTM I don't think my heels would ever touch the ground at stops unless I lean the bike heavily to one side.
Thanks for watching and for stopping by Alex....
Thank you! Going to BMW dealer to get GS 2018!
proslava
Lucky bugger!!
get it bought, I have 2018 rallye, its superb 4 th gs since 2004 its like a Rolls Royce Ferrari.
Hi. Interesting comparison. Thanks for that. Don't forget that the 17 GS has a much improved gearbox, as good as anything I've ever used, plus the auto suspension which is fantastic. Still a very close call though. Guess we're lucky to have two superb bikes to choose from.
Not another improved gearbox, they've been doing that for the last 30 years! How bad were they?
Trevor Ford . A bit clunky and noisy plus finding neutral was a bit of an up and down affair. All sorted now..
If they think a gs is boring obviously they haven't ridden one and see what it can do.
I got fed up with the press saying how good they were - Too tall for me and an old man's bike.....I then got overtaken by one on a trackday at Cadwell Park so took one out for a test ride to see what the fuss was about and was shocked how it well it handled, the grunt out of corners and that I could reach the ground. I've now had mine for nearly 3 years.
This must be a UK thing. I don't see too many BMWs at all. When I do, my first thought is that that guy probably knows more about bikes than the average bear. In the US it's all Harleys all the time. When I see them, I have the opposite thought. I still wave to them all. Something we can do here where we drive on the correct side of the road ;)
Correct side of the road? Hmmm, let me see. If i was in Europe/USA, and stopped on the right hand side of the road and placed my bike stand down, the bike would be leaning into the lane. Then, I would get off the bike (on the left hand side) and step into the lane of on coming vehicles. Hmmm, but hang on a second !!! If I were in the UK/AUS, I would stop on the left hand side of the road. I would put my stand down, and the bike would lean away from the traffic in the lane, and I would get off the bike (left hand side) and I would be on the curb/footpath safely out of the way. WOW!!! That's amazing!!! ;-) Keep on groovin' on.....
In the US, there's always a McDonalds to stop and pee within two miles. They have spacious parking lots ;)
LOL!!! Well said. I must admit, I thought Australia had one every few miles, until I went to the US! Cheers groover :-)
Great review !! I have both 2008 GS Adventure and a 2016 1290 Adventure. Both great bikes and your spot on when you said you buy with your heart.
Glad we concur
The GS wins for me, it's so iconic. I'm biased simply because I'm on the lookout for a used one as I write this! I'm sure the KTM is fabulous, but I just can't get past the looks.
There is something very special about how that boxer engine looks.
Yep, that headlight looks too much like an insect..
Great video and i agree with your summary. Have you tried the KTM 1090 Adv R, i would be interested in your thoughts. I am sure Jason will loan you one and a ladder !!
I have reviewed the 1090 but I can't recall without looking if it was the R - great machine though....
In 12 out of 10 cases i'll take juicy orange juice over soy latte from starcucks ;
-In comfort the BMW is better;
-The Windshield, i think is very subjective;
-The seat on the KTM has 2 positions! But yes, it's higher (but lighter than the GS and the GSA);
-The KTM has more equipment (standard, no extras);
-The shaft doesn't need the maintenance as the chain, but is heavier and if has problems, is much more expensive;
-Regarding the fun factor, i think that the KTM is not probably the winner; it's undoubtedly the winner;
-The panniers, i don't know because never used any of the original, but it's also subjective due to the options we have on the market;
-The TFT from the BMW (Bosch, as the one equipped on the KTM), i think it's better; they waited one more year to "develop" better the system;
-The KTM will have navigation too;
-The TFT comes standard with the KTM but on the BMW is an extra...
-KTM has offroad mode standard;
BOTH are great bikes! It's a matter of taste, and money of course. The important is
Thanks
Remember when KTM pulled their support for the Long Way Round, and BMW stepped into the breach?...
Ian Fitzharris that was a master stroke for bmw
That was 13 years ago!
Marek Kwietniewski 😮 Time flies eh? 😖
Cloggsy Goodwin The sheer fear displayed by the KTM representatives that they’re bikes would be put through that level of punishment was very revealing at the time.
Tins on Tour Couldn’t buy that publicity!
The qualifiers “edges out” and “by far” matter in this review; the nuisances sure add up! What I’d also like to know is cost of ownership. I gave up Beemers a few years ago because of the cost of ownership - wondering if it was just my experience or an across the board reality. Also, spent half of my 50 years riding shaft bikes, the other half were chain drive. In my opinion, contemporary chains/sprockets (add a tooth, drop a tooth) are the way to go . . . “by far.” Thanks for another great review.
Cheers Walter - check out my stand alone reviews for details on cost of ownership....
Ktm every day
An twice on a Sunday
Pretty much agree with that as theres not much in it at all , for me i think it's the shaft drive that just about sways it ... as u say new ( fully loaded ) adventure bikes are shockingly expensive but wouldn't say no to either of em .... the insurance cost seems to be a bit of shocker on the ktm but hey ho that's life , top vid as always
Thanks for the kind comments - much appreciated! All the best - TMF
Both great bikes. For me the GS wins because it has a shaft drive and the KTM loses because it is chain drive. Chains are a pain...too much PT, mess and fuss (esp when removing the rear wheel...getting greasy and having to retension the chain again). It is a deal-breaker for me.
Thanks for watching and for stopping buy! All the best - TMF
At my GS's last service (20k km) they remove the rubber boot at the joint to check for corrosion because there is ANOTHER flaw in the new GS and water leaks in there and causes corrosion. So maybe the drive shaft is not as attractive anymore...
For touring I’d choose the GS adventure bigger tank, drive shaft (no chain lubing). Currently have the KTM 1290 Adventure R as I do more off road riding here in South Africa.
Although, I completely agree with all the points you give to the KTM, I feel that some of them are irrelevant advantages for someone on the market for these big adventure bikes. For example, the nuclear engine the KTM has. Is that really that important for someone who wants a "one bike to do it all", or someone who prioritises touring? The way I see it, the GS wins points where it matters most. For me it's the winner. But with the KTM being an equally excellent bike.
Fair do's - I did say I thought the BMW was better overall.....
TheMissendenFlyer Yes of course. I didn't mean to say that I disagree with your verdict or your process of comparing the two. Just taking the discussion further
As a GS owner who will likely get a 1290R for his next bike (that doubles as my car) the deciding factor for me is the motor. I love the GS motor, but there is something exceptional about the motor in the 1290 that I can't seem to shake.
I think when the pavement ends your choice would be more clear. I have owned both and when I took the GSA off road I truly felt like a fish out of water with no confidence. Now to be clear it was the GSA not the GS. I also find that all KTM's have a fun factor that the BMW's I have owned did not have. Both bikes are great but an adventure bike is a purpose built machine so a true all around comparison would be great to see. Wait till you give that 1290 a true off road test, it is actually remarkable of how well a 500lb bike does.....I think Chris Birch vids say it all. Great review as always.
Having owned and ridden both KTM and BMW i can honestly say the BMW is far more comfortable, found my buttocks went numb with 30 minutes of riding my KTM, made it impossible for long rides, might just be me.
Did you try a PP Ergo seat? Massively better, they should fit them as standard. At least they are not too pricey and also have a heated option which is fabulous. :)
When doing a trip for five days in Austria and riding at least 400km's a day this Autumn, I noticed my butt got used to the treatment and adapted to the 1190's relatively harsh standard seat. But yeah, the GS' triple black's seat is unquestionably more comfortable. And by the way, no need for a heated seat. All KTM V-twins come as standard with heated (in summer = baked) arse/thigh option :D
My gs seat is horrible after a few hundred miles, upgraded and it is a bit better. All bikes need a seat upgrade or shoudl I say most.
A Kali everyone on forums is complaining about the harsh KTM seats. After a while though you get used to it. It's not a goldwing for sure but it's decent. Our butts need to get used to some harshness
Compare your bike seat to your bicycle's and you'll know what I mean
Great review again. Personally I’d go for the BMW but can’t afford either so I’ll just keep watching you ride them until that day! Keep flying ❗️
This could lead to an endless discussion! For me the BMW wins, if only because I am no longer wanting to do daft things on a bike. Comfort and useability for me. Boring!
Agreed...long touring and ease of use make it a nice bike to ride on long trips...I rather look at the scenery then fus with cleaning the chain, getting fuel all the time, and changing the suspension all the time..My GSA has me spoiled and even if the KTM is more exciting..I like a smooth uneventful ride with the cruise control on when I cover long miles. Much like you...Boring!
Great review as always! I rented a 2008 GS in australia that had about 150000km on it (and a rental so it had been dropped in all ways possible). It felt like a new bike, engine, brakes everything performed like new I was surprised considering how beat up it looked! My only grip is that it could lose 50lbs...otherwise super comfortable and pleasant to ride.
Oh, and another thing, I'll nod at you! This seems to be a British snooty trait, in "Europe " all bikers appear to acknowledge...
Nick Laskaris I live in Holland and we wave at everyone. Here, it seems as if it's only Harley riders who think they're better than the rest of us.
We nod because we ride on the other side of the road, and to wave we would have to take our right hand off the throttle. Nothing to do with being "snooty".lol.
We snooty BMW riders normally have cruise control !
honestbob45 remind me why you keep using wrong side of the road? ;)
Can't riders wave with a left hand? Everyone in the 70's and 80's waved. Nobody nodded. When did that creep in, I can't remember?
Good non biased review.
Very informative.
Thanks Robert!
I dont even need to watch the video to no the answer to the question. Obviously the best is......the Triumph Tiger 800 XC hands down.
Great review. I liked how you compared bit by bit.
I thought you could have covered - dirt road handling - size of tank / fuel economy/ distance can travel between fills - braking - cost of servicing / intervals etc - insurance costs (understand that it also depends on the individual rider etc) - cost to purchase - value for money - reliability - what’s the most important comparison (not all ticks are of the same value (engine v looks I.e.).
Not picking and it could go on forever I know - just a couple of important factors.
That said I loved the review and subscribed.
Thanks and welcome along!
I am a ktm fan boi 😎
You're a lucky boy to have access to such bikes. Nice comparison.
I'll definitely settle for the KTM 1290 SUPER ADVENTURE R
I had a 2014 KTM Adventure R, I loved that gearbox and engine but it was just too tall for me to live with and I spent most of my time on the blacktop, I now have a 2017 R1200GS Rallye, fantastic bike, amazing suspension, super comfortable goes really well and like he says that wiz wheel for the electronics is brilliant, the engine is clunky and noisy as is the gearbox and I find the bike has no "fizz". I am considering going to the KTM Adventure S and getting the seat rebuilt to make it more comfortable because I really miss that V-twin engine and gearbox package, it just grunts out of corners, no shortage of fizz!
I question the value of BMW shaft drive advantage, my 2015 had to rebuild the final drive at 15,000 miles because BMW claimed stored on the side stand damaged the bearings cost $1,500 to overhaul, total rubbish bearings, not side stand issue, new final drives are a whopping $3,000 US and not rebuildable. I like the lower maintenance value of the shaft drive over messy chain drive, but at $3,000 plus labor, I'll take KTM chain drive any day. BMW Legendary durability is a total myth, I've owned 3 BMW R1200 GSA Hex head and 1 Water boxer. On the other hand KTM really needs to get its act together regarding comfort, seats are horrible, we laugh saying the reason KTM has such great suspension because it's too painful to sit down, you have to stand after the first hour. The new KTM 790 sets a whole new standard in brick hard seats, with zero attempt to fake comfort.
It's quite easy to get your seat to any level of padding you want. Not more than a 100-150 Euros in my country. I second the final drive/shaft drive issue. I had the same issue on a 2006 (bought from new) BMW GSA 1200 at just 22000 kms (bearings again). Moreover, the same bike managed to get a valve through a piston at 20.000kms and sput it out from the exhaust! (last month within guaranty - thankfully covered by BMW). Neddless to say that after the shaft drive issue that came second I traded her for a brand new 2009 KTM 990 adventure with R suspension. Great bike that last one! P.S. I also owned a regular BMW 2005 GS1200 that had terrible (dangerous) ABS and needed oil (from new) like a Greek salad. More than 500ml every 1000kms! That's the bike I traded for the GSA. I didn't pamper that GSA in break-in period and it didn't burn any oil at all. I think it was running lean though with the Akra exhaust - hence the catastrophic disintegration.
Excellent review TMF. Always a joy to watch. Seems that personal preferences are the deciding factor on this one, however, I my personal preferences are on par with yours. GSA it is!
Good man!
the "GS rider is not a REAL rider" thing is nonsense... I'll be at the NEC show from London no doubt in the freezing rain..when a lot of the "REAL riders" will have tucked up their sports/naked/retro bikes for the winter and will have their bike covers glued to their bikes!
hehe, I was there today - I drove there in a warm Mercedes E class ;0)
TheMissendenFlyer certainly a better way to ensure fonder memories of motorcycles... All said I see you are warming up to the more scaffold orientated GSA. I would like to get a Gsa myself with the vario cases and would value your opinion on such a pick and mix ))
Hahahaha the fair weather rider is the clever rider
The only response for sad haters
Very good comparation. I loved to watch
Glad you liked it.....
One comment: while you will always be able to see old GSs models on the road, the KTMs seem to disappear...they vanish! KTMs do not stand time.
They last better than Ducati's anyway ... the newer ones seem to have a very good build quality.
because there are so mant gs in first place ! due to long way round!
I have the answer for you: leasing loan by BMW. That is why you see more GS than any other brands on the roads/streets.
KTM's are very unreliable.....best be a mechanic and carry tools if you ride them.....
I disagree, I see plenty of old 950s and 990s on the road, in fact I see more of them than BMW 1100s or 1150s.
I think riding comfort and power needs will change from one person to another.
Compliments to the way you presented this video, good work
Thank you....
i was riding bmw but when i seat on ktm i never again go back to bmw ktm is beast of a motorcycle
That's how a comparison should be done. Great work
+Harkamal Singh Appreciate the kind words - thanks Harkamal
They are so big, bike in that size remind me of a big horse. Why cant they make adventure bikes that are small and light...
Try a CCM GP450 ,its a light adventure bike
Great video! Planning a 2024 update for these 2?
BMW: riders 35+ years old.
KTM: riders between 17 and 35 years old.
Same here, Will. I'm 42.
I can't see too many 17-35 year old's affording either.
I'm 51 have ridden the BMW but the KTM is more fun.
will M
Weird comment. I'm 40 and I think the BMW R nine T range are beautiful. And it's not a badge stigma, they are genuinely good bikes. See TMFs reviews
Gregory, NineT is not an adv bike. C'monnnnn!!!!
just signed the paperwork to trade my '16 GSw for the 1290 SA-S. Always wanted a KTM, decided I wasn't getting any younger. Your videos are quite helpful and no-nonsense, thanks for them. Looking forward to riding orange, though the GSw is a brilliant bike. But after now also putting 8K miles on a '17 Multistrada 1200-S, having all that power becomes a bit addictive...
Congratulations - Hope you get on with the new bike - all the best - TMF
Can't Thank you enough... Keeping my KTM-GT which I upgraded from a SD-R. Really Appreciated your Video(s) Immensely.! Big Kudos from Costa Rica
Glad to help!
Hi TMF. I think your comparison is valid. The old KTM adventure T was the GSA equivalent. But moving on you made two ommisions. No mention of fuel consumption and on to tank range/gauge accuracy. Lastly doesn't anyone else ride in the dark? What's the head light like on dip, full beam etc.
Otherwise a very slick beautifully edited video. You are easy to listen to unlike Capitan Ram.....
Thank you Rog - good points and thanks for the kind words...all the best - TMF
I find it rather amusing when people say the GS is an old mans bike. That’s probably because we’ve had all the other bikes and now realise that the GS does everything well. It tours two up, is great for commuting, can go off road, and in the hands of a good rider will stay with all but the fastest sports bike- on the twisty roads. However, having owned 8 of them, I will say that the reliability should be better for the price. The switch gear fails and the and Alloy corrodes badly of not treated very carefully (acf 50) & cleaned with the right cleaner. For £15k-£20k these bikes should be better. Period.
Yes I agree on all fronts - great bikes but not 100% perfect...
You are very thorough... I enjoyed every minute of it!
Thank you - glad you liked it!
Great comparison. I think the GS with the TFT option is pretty unbeatable and as a bike offers more all round use. It makes a great commuter as well brilliant for touring however commuting on the KTM...hmmm not convinced.
Great video. Would be fantastic if you could do a comparison between the new 1250GS and KTM...
The best security is a lock and chain. Alarms, trackers etc all easy to get around. Make it difficult to move with a really good lock and chain. In any event, if they want it they will take it. Keep up the great videos TMF.
Good vlog, can i ask the camera/helmet your using as the speech is very clear at speed with very little noise.
Cheers - details in the description below...
I was told by the triumph dealer that the moving luggage system, which also appears on the tiger, is to aid center of gravity when going around twisty bits. As the bike is tall, it's a way of shifting the c of g as the bike leans over! As I'm never going to be able to afford the bikes in the video, I don't really have a favourite, great video though, keep up the good work
+Eds Shed Given they only move about an inch I can’t see that having much effect! Thanks for watching, all the best - TMF
TheMissendenFlyer that's exactly what I said, but apparently, when you lean a bike over, it makes a difference. I'm with you, can't see what actual difference it makes, why don't you ask, see what they say!
Great comparison Mr Flyer! I'm trying to make the decision between the KTM 1090 and 1190 or the 1200 GS adventure and it's so tough. So far the KTM brand has it on price being within budget as the Bmw is just over budget. If the right bmw came in on budget it would be almost impossible to split them!
This is the best review on the internet😃
Crikey!
Sb Sb ... agreed !!! Excellent Start to End !!!
I would have liked you to load them up. My super tenere compared to my GSA loaded power difference was huge under load.
Yes good idea - missed that one!
I really do like the looks of the BMW. I also prefer the way it sounds (odd, I know) and I like the customisation options on the BMW with the Nav5/Nav 6.
Wicked video. Always good to see the Beemer out and about.
Hi TMF enjoyed the vid as always. I think you'll have to try my lowered GSA it really is good, a full on GSA but you can get your feet down which is a massive confidence boost to me and really seems to take the weight out of it.
Just be warned, you will want one.
All the best
JJ
I already want one, lowered or not!
TheMissendenFlyer lowered is so much better 👍
coming of a k1200 gt, I'd never own another, that clunky shift drove me loopy you feel like a learner, no way to synch eng rpm with road speed, thanks for this Man
Love my GSA, but can’t deny the KTM is a great machine. Bit of a tough one doing a comparison, I commend you on having a long look at them both. Nice one TMF, enjoyed this one a lot.
Thank you Marc....
The BMW XR is going to be my next bike, wonder If the nods will dry up?.
No, you'll be OK on that....
Hei TMF, thank you for the detailed review and comparison
I am checking the seat height and at least the ktm 2019 model mentions a ajustable seat 860 mm or 875 mm, was not availeble in the year your reviewd?
How tall is the seat of your GS?
Dunno - I have the low seat so a little less....
Both bikes are excellent. BMW is like German Volksmusik, the KTM is Rock and Roll.
I buy the KTM last year. I am 1/4 Welsh and 3/4German by the way :-)
One category you missed that I am looking for is second hand on these two. Which one lasts the test of time. For 10 odd grand now you seem to get more for your money with KTM but do they last as well as BMW? Reliability could be part of this new category too.