The problem is they weren’t wearing period clothing during the recording sessions. Viennese shoes and undergarments from 1909 pinch terribly, which would have led to the anguished tone Mahler intended for this symphony.
Back in the day, the orchestral playing was often far below current standards of musicianship. For truly genuine "period performance" of such difficult composers as Bruckner and Mahler one might need a thoroughy-unprofessional orchestra. I can think of at least fifteen American symphony orchestras competent to play either.
I went and listened to the sample they posted on UA-cam, and it's definitely as described. The string playing is really weird, because they definitely are playing in a very dry, vibratoless manner, but they're still using portamento and the combination is sort of unholy. I want to tie everybody involved down and make them listen to Fritz Kreisler on loop until they get what violin playing in Vienna sounded like in the early part of the 20th century. But the brass is utterly mystifying to me. Usually one of the strengths of period performance stuff is that the winds/brass pop out of the texture and sound rough and raw. So, as you noted, what the heck happened to the trombones? And why is the trumpet so ... polite? The timpani rolls don't work at all, either. Basically, everything that's supposed to be meltingly lovely is dry and eerie, and everything that's supposed to scare the crap out of you just sort of mildly piques your interest.
I've seen old photos of the Boston trombone section from the early 20th C, around 1910. Those tenor players were using large bore instruments, as opposed to what we often call "pea shooters".
I paused the video and listened to the first few minutes on Spotify. Now I'm wondering where Mr. von Steinaecker will be parking cars in the near future.
My biggest fear, when an utterly and arrogantly misconceived recording of a great masterpiece makes the rounds, is that somewhere a newcomer to classical music will pick it up, listen to it and, thinking that is a representative performance of the work, dismiss the work and its composer from his mind, perhaps permanently.
In some comment section or another I presented that exact quote about Mahler using more vibrato than other conductors, with links and time stamps. The guy said “well we don’t know exactly what the context is”. It is insane out there.
I listened to the "single" promotional release for this album containing a portion of the first movement. It was not a pleasant experience. Screechy and reedy. Aural sewage. I have zero desire to listen to the rest. And then I looked up conductor Steinaecker on Spotify...and he doesn't just destroy Mahler. He makes Handel, Bach, Bruckner, Mozart, and various Strauss family members sound anemic and lifeless. It reminded me of Norrington. It was that bad. Run, don't walk from this guy.
There is an interview on UA-cam with them where Clive Brown claims that Mahler didn't want the orchestra to play what's strictly on the page, and that the notation is misleading! Eh?
@@dennischiapello7243 You guys should listen to Mahler's ownpiano rolls recordings. He is very, very much varying from his own markings. Tempo variations, inequality in note values etc.
Mahler knew what he wanted in his music, and he may have thought that there was but one way to play his music -- his way, and up to standards rarely met in the orchestras of his time. Except that we have no recordings of Mahler conducting Mahler, we can best approach what he wanted. Anything else is wrong or at least flawed.
@@PaulBrower-bw4jw Ah well, we have Bruno Walter, and that's close enough, I think. Guys like Clive Brown are just trying to justify doing whatever for the sake of novelty, under the idea that novelty is what attracts people to buy stuff... Yeah, maybe the new I-phone, but not classical music recordings!
I listened to the first six minutes of the first movement which is all that seems available on youtube. The opening is so weird. The craziness starts from the very start, the strings are sliding and glissing from note to note (sans vibrato) . Very trippy. Mahler on acid. I'm hanging out for these dudes to do an original instrument HIP of Adams "Short Ride in a Fast Machine" and Shostakovich Symphony 15.
I'm surprised Dave didn't bring out a scarf for this one. It sounds like a very bad idea that should never have been put into practice. By Mahler's time, the instruments and orchestra had reached something very close to their modern form, though Mahler did on occasion use strange instruments that were specific to his time (i.e. the posthorn in the third symphony), and there is value in bringing back those instruments. Modern instruments are authentic period instruments for that time in most cases. Also, as Dave said, we have plenty of historical evidence, including recordings by conductors who personally knew Mahler. The HIP people have done a lot of good for the music world. They have brought a lot of music from the medieval, renaissance, and baroque periods back from obscurity. They have reconstructed fascinating old instruments that had long been forgotten. (I particularly like crumhorns and racketts.) They have done a lot of research to get some rough idea of how music might have been performed centuries ago. Of course, in the absence of recordings, some rough idea is the best they will ever be able to do, and they need to have the humility to accept this. Unfortunately, they have not stayed in their lane. I can see some value in exploring instruments and performing practice through the early romantic period, when things were still different enough from the present day to be potentially interesting, but I can see no value whatsoever in being demonstrably wrong, which seems to happen with increasing frequency as the HIP movement invades the 19th century. By the late romantic period, I simply don't see the point. For that time period, Bruno Walter is as HIP as it is possible to be. If you really want to record a new HIP version of Mahler's Ninth, just find the best possible orchestra and copy whatever Bruno Walter did in his 1961 recording.
Reprising what I said of Roger "Borington", EMI cut him off before he could perform "period" performances of composers such as Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Grieg, and Elgar.
I feel like you're channeling the spirit of Mahler on this one and rightfully so! Lol. Having recently purchased a copy of the score for Mahler's 9th, one thing that strikes me is Mahler's intentionality - while there's of course always room for some interpretation, there's a whole lot with Mahler which isn't! And with all of the dynamic markings, tempo indications, instrumentation, etc. in this work, I just get the sense that Mahler had a great handle on what worked best for the execution of this work. As an aside, I cried with joy hearing Dave do the imitation of the trombones/tuba melody in the Landler...as it coincidentally has been swirling around in my brain all morning! Haha
As long as they're going back to pre-Mahler instrumentation, maybe they can try it with ocarinas, recorders, alphorns, shofars, didgeridoos and hollow log percussion. (Which likely would be more interesting and sound better.)
Thanks for the review. By the way, Storgards and the BBC Philharmonic have released another Shostakovich record (Babiy Yar) - so it looks like we are getting a full cycle! Good lord. Can’t wait for David to tear this one apart as he did with the 11th (his first video on the channel) and the 12th and 15th…
Herreweghe already tried to do Mahler on period instruments (the 4th and Das Lied von der Herde). I admire Herreweghe for his Bach and Monteverdi, but for what I remember it was frustrating and unsatisfying (but probably better than this 9th).
Dave, I believe in an earlier video you mentioned that Walter’s Mahler recordings aren’t representative of what Mahler himself would have done because they contained affectations that were present in his other non-Mahler recordings. What aspects of Walter’s Mahler would you argue to be authentically non-affectatious representations of Mahler’s music and why? (Perhaps this could be a subject of a whole video)
Period instruments for 20th century works, interesting concept! I would like to hear such recordings for Cage, Schuman, Corigliano, Bernstein, Boulez, etc. Some of these folks conducted their own music... highly doubtful authenticity if they weren't using period instruments or... employing vibrato 😂
Oh dear god - a possible contender for the scarf of irredeemable chutzpah? Also, I wonder if you would do a video about where record labels get their money from, considering there's virtually no demand for any of these recordings. I know you've referred to labels like DG as "vanity labels", receiving payment from the artists, but do they have enough money to cover the cost of all aspects of the recording, and if so, where is THAT money coming from? It's something I've been genuinely curious about...
I really, really, REALLY, was waiting for this review by Dave's. I think the whole concept of a HIP Mahler is plain stupidity. And it shows how far the musical world has gone (not in a good way).
Ha! Might as well be Mahler on viols and mandolins! Nonsense. But I'm confused by your Norman Lebrecht bit, he's a penetrating critic isn't he? Or so I'd thought. I always see your wisdom and surely will here too, if you kingly explain what's up with N R
MY GOD! What could these fools have been thinking? I'd rather not know, for to get inside this orchestra's collective or conductor's head, may lead to madness, or at the very least barren sterility of musical appreciation. Dave: Whenever I hear an absolutely vile piece of music that sticks odiously in my ears, rather than leave it inside my head, I reach for my favourite interpretations in hopes of flushing it out. No one should have to suffer like this; play Walter, Klemperer or Haitink instead. I hope you'll feel better afterwards. Thanks for the warning of what not to listen to. PS: What colour scarf are you going to pull out at the end of the year for this performance? :) Take care!
@@DavesClassicalGuide You've got until the end of the year to make up your mind. Then again, wear all the scarves that apply. That just might be a first for your channel. :)
I like that last idea. Like they say, if it applies, do it! Cannot think of a better reason to establish a presidence. Maybe they might get the not so subtle hint as to how atrocious it is!
. . . but other than that, Dave LOVES IT! . . . Is this really as bad as the 1938 Bruno Walter? . . . Now THAT'S bad! Walter never approved it for commercial release.
Walter was Mahler's assistant in Vienna. . He premiered the first performance of the 9th. I will cut and paste Mahler's relationship with Klemperer:: "In 1905 he met Gustav Mahler while conducting the offstage brass at a performance of Mahler’s Symphony No. 2, Resurrection. He also made a piano reduction of the second symphony. The two men became friends, and Klemperer became conductor at the German Opera in Prague in 1907 on Mahler’s recommendation. Mahler wrote a short testimonial, recommending Klemperer, on a small card which Klemperer kept for the rest of his life. Later, in 1910, Klemperer assisted Mahler in the premiere of his Symphony No. 8, Symphony of a Thousand."
Maybe we could hear an anachronistic performance of Pictures at an Exhibition with an orchestration using Handel-era instruments. At the least Handel would have been perfect for Pictures!
@@grantparsons6205 in the category "can't be unheard" though it's nowhere as "problematic" as the ensembles recording of the Adagietto where they try to emulate the sound of Mengelberg 1926.
Another comment were there really “period” instruments at the time of Mahler? By the turn of the century the instruments of the orchestra were already established and set.
But...I really wonder if there IS a market for such rubbish! Drugs and prostitution are terrible things, but they do have a market! But...for HIP Mahler...really, who can be interested in such an absurdity? This something which really disconcerts me!
Thank you for the review. I am not surprised, and I’m not going to bother listening to it and ruining my day. With all we know about what Mahler wanted in an orchestra, this in fact throws the ENTIRE period instrument movement into question for me. Why would Bach and Mozart have disdained modern performance practice any more than Mahler would? On the whole we are _improving_ music-making by standing on the shoulders of those who came before. Just as in any field that involves craft.
I said it once and I said it again. Period instruments only work well up until the early 1800s like Schumann, Chopin Mendelssohnish. There is no way it should go beyond Schumann especially in Mahler. I would honestly be very intrigued to see good period ensembles like Les Concert Des Nations and the Tafelmusik Baroque Orchestra or something like that approach a gargantuan Mahler symphony. Anima Eterna is another orchestra that goes beyond Schumann but I guess they get a pass becuase their “New World” and Tchaikovsky discs aren’t that bad.
By the early 20th Century instruments were pretty similar to nowadays', thus where in the world is the point of playing Mahler "on period instruments"? And I know there's discs of music by Ravel and Orff "on period instruments", even Schönberg on early-20th Century pianos... I think it's more like an attempt to market this kind of music to early music enthusiasts. Perhaps the most pathetic thing about that is hiring a Spohr scholar as an advisor about Mahler - Musicologist by now tend to be extremely specialized, what they've done makes as much sense as hiring a Leoninus scholar as an advisor to record something by Stockhausen.
I listened to the sample on UA-cam. It is so horrible sounding. The strings sound lousy with no vibrato and as for the portamenti they sound like a group of delinquents making fun, there's portamenti everywhere! and not well played at that. It's more like it's been influenced by early Penderecki than HIP dogma.
The small ensembles that try to do their own thing everywhere. With Mozart at the latest, the period is over. Period. Even in baroque music the people understand that fast tempo and harsh drums isn't all. In the same way late romantic conductors played baroque music in a wrong way the today's second neo classical school abuses late romantic music for their own ego.
I see the latest edition of BBC radio 3 'Record review' had it as a choice pick by the guest 'reviewer' the clip they played didn't convince me! and I sensed the regular presenter wasn't that convinced either.
It seems to me that a big problem with a project like this is that Mahler was definitely writing not only for his own time but also posterity. As a result, I am sure that he would have been thrilled and fascinated with changes brought about by the evolution in musicianship, musical training and technology that have resulted in the subsequent masterful performances of the later recorded history of the work. Playing the piece on the actual instruments strikes me as an interesting historical curiosity, but if played badly on those instruments, I can't imagine that Mahler, who was a candidate for most disciplined musician in human history, would have approved.
The concept "play it on instruments that were used in 1910" would have been intriguing if presented to the renowned Mahler specialist conductors when they were still around and active until some twenty to thirty years ago, but then I'm pretty sure that they would all have turned it down saying: "For what reason? There will be so little difference that nobody in the audience will tell the difference!".
The problem is they weren’t wearing period clothing during the recording sessions. Viennese shoes and undergarments from 1909 pinch terribly, which would have led to the anguished tone Mahler intended for this symphony.
Back in the day, the orchestral playing was often far below current standards of musicianship. For truly genuine "period performance" of such difficult composers as Bruckner and Mahler one might need a thoroughy-unprofessional orchestra. I can think of at least fifteen American symphony orchestras competent to play either.
This makes me want to hear Mahler on baroque instruments!
Theorbos instead of cellos, sackbuts instead of trombones.
And a harpsichord continuo.
Dont forget natural horns! (Oof that will suck for hornists)
Masochist. :)
@@josecarmona9168 Cornetts instead of trumpets, six-string violones instead of double-basses, chalumeaux instead of clarinets... Spectacular 🤣🤣!
@@TenorCantusFirmus and giant tímpani with wood sticks as the only percussion.
‘The Norman Lebrecht of musicology’. Ouch! 😂
I went and listened to the sample they posted on UA-cam, and it's definitely as described. The string playing is really weird, because they definitely are playing in a very dry, vibratoless manner, but they're still using portamento and the combination is sort of unholy. I want to tie everybody involved down and make them listen to Fritz Kreisler on loop until they get what violin playing in Vienna sounded like in the early part of the 20th century. But the brass is utterly mystifying to me. Usually one of the strengths of period performance stuff is that the winds/brass pop out of the texture and sound rough and raw. So, as you noted, what the heck happened to the trombones? And why is the trumpet so ... polite? The timpani rolls don't work at all, either. Basically, everything that's supposed to be meltingly lovely is dry and eerie, and everything that's supposed to scare the crap out of you just sort of mildly piques your interest.
Bingo!
I've seen old photos of the Boston trombone section from the early 20th C, around 1910. Those tenor players were using large bore instruments, as opposed to what we often call "pea shooters".
I paused the video and listened to the first few minutes on Spotify. Now I'm wondering where Mr. von Steinaecker will be parking cars in the near future.
My biggest fear, when an utterly and arrogantly misconceived recording of a great masterpiece makes the rounds, is that somewhere a newcomer to classical music will pick it up, listen to it and, thinking that is a representative performance of the work, dismiss the work and its composer from his mind, perhaps permanently.
In some comment section or another I presented that exact quote about Mahler using more vibrato than other conductors, with links and time stamps. The guy said “well we don’t know exactly what the context is”. It is insane out there.
I listened to the "single" promotional release for this album containing a portion of the first movement. It was not a pleasant experience. Screechy and reedy. Aural sewage. I have zero desire to listen to the rest. And then I looked up conductor Steinaecker on Spotify...and he doesn't just destroy Mahler. He makes Handel, Bach, Bruckner, Mozart, and various Strauss family members sound anemic and lifeless. It reminded me of Norrington. It was that bad.
Run, don't walk from this guy.
I like some portamenti in Mahler. But this is just gross.
OK, the longer I watch, the more I'm struck by morbid interest. Maybe I can find it on UA-cam.
There is an interview on UA-cam with them where Clive Brown claims that Mahler didn't want the orchestra to play what's strictly on the page, and that the notation is misleading! Eh?
Why am I not surprised?
Mahler is noted for the highly detailed markings, comments and instructions in his scores. How could Brown say such a thing?!
@@dennischiapello7243 You guys should listen to Mahler's ownpiano rolls recordings. He is very, very much varying from his own markings. Tempo variations, inequality in note values etc.
Mahler knew what he wanted in his music, and he may have thought that there was but one way to play his music -- his way, and up to standards rarely met in the orchestras of his time. Except that we have no recordings of Mahler conducting Mahler, we can best approach what he wanted. Anything else is wrong or at least flawed.
@@PaulBrower-bw4jw Ah well, we have Bruno Walter, and that's close enough, I think. Guys like Clive Brown are just trying to justify doing whatever for the sake of novelty, under the idea that novelty is what attracts people to buy stuff... Yeah, maybe the new I-phone, but not classical music recordings!
Anyone for a HIP performance of Bernstein’s Kaddish Symphony on period instruments (one to a part)?
I remember a recording of Mahler 10, by Gidon Kremer in a chamber versión, I'd love ti hear your thoughts about it. 😅
I listened to the first six minutes of the first movement which is all that seems available on youtube. The opening is so weird. The craziness starts from the very start, the strings are sliding and glissing from note to note (sans vibrato) . Very trippy. Mahler on acid.
I'm hanging out for these dudes to do an original instrument HIP of Adams "Short Ride in a Fast Machine" and Shostakovich Symphony 15.
Dave, have you heard any of Paul McCreesh’s recent recording of Elgar’s Dream of Gerontius on ‘period instruments’ (Signum)?
Not yet. The suspense is killing me.
I'm surprised Dave didn't bring out a scarf for this one. It sounds like a very bad idea that should never have been put into practice. By Mahler's time, the instruments and orchestra had reached something very close to their modern form, though Mahler did on occasion use strange instruments that were specific to his time (i.e. the posthorn in the third symphony), and there is value in bringing back those instruments. Modern instruments are authentic period instruments for that time in most cases. Also, as Dave said, we have plenty of historical evidence, including recordings by conductors who personally knew Mahler.
The HIP people have done a lot of good for the music world. They have brought a lot of music from the medieval, renaissance, and baroque periods back from obscurity. They have reconstructed fascinating old instruments that had long been forgotten. (I particularly like crumhorns and racketts.) They have done a lot of research to get some rough idea of how music might have been performed centuries ago. Of course, in the absence of recordings, some rough idea is the best they will ever be able to do, and they need to have the humility to accept this. Unfortunately, they have not stayed in their lane. I can see some value in exploring instruments and performing practice through the early romantic period, when things were still different enough from the present day to be potentially interesting, but I can see no value whatsoever in being demonstrably wrong, which seems to happen with increasing frequency as the HIP movement invades the 19th century. By the late romantic period, I simply don't see the point. For that time period, Bruno Walter is as HIP as it is possible to be. If you really want to record a new HIP version of Mahler's Ninth, just find the best possible orchestra and copy whatever Bruno Walter did in his 1961 recording.
Yeah, they're banking on money from novelty.
Wow! Can't wait to hear the Sibelius, Nielsen and Magnard symphonies with timid brass and the strings playing non-vibrato. Won't that be exciting?!
Have you forgotten Rachmaninoff?
@@PaulBrower-bw4jw Hell, so I did. And the Wagner operas as well!
Reprising what I said of Roger "Borington", EMI cut him off before he could perform "period" performances of composers such as Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Grieg, and Elgar.
I feel like you're channeling the spirit of Mahler on this one and rightfully so! Lol. Having recently purchased a copy of the score for Mahler's 9th, one thing that strikes me is Mahler's intentionality - while there's of course always room for some interpretation, there's a whole lot with Mahler which isn't! And with all of the dynamic markings, tempo indications, instrumentation, etc. in this work, I just get the sense that Mahler had a great handle on what worked best for the execution of this work. As an aside, I cried with joy hearing Dave do the imitation of the trombones/tuba melody in the Landler...as it coincidentally has been swirling around in my brain all morning! Haha
As long as they're going back to pre-Mahler instrumentation, maybe they can try it with ocarinas, recorders, alphorns, shofars, didgeridoos and hollow log percussion. (Which likely would be more interesting and sound better.)
Thanks for the review. By the way, Storgards and the BBC Philharmonic have released another Shostakovich record (Babiy Yar) - so it looks like we are getting a full cycle! Good lord. Can’t wait for David to tear this one apart as he did with the 11th (his first video on the channel) and the 12th and 15th…
To be fair, he's a decent conductor, unlike this guy.
Herreweghe already tried to do Mahler on period instruments (the 4th and Das Lied von der Herde). I admire Herreweghe
for his Bach and Monteverdi, but for what I remember it was frustrating and unsatisfying (but probably better than this 9th).
Is that even worst than Roger Norringhton's version of this same piece ?
After you reach the nadir of dreadfulness, it doesn't really matter.
The Norman Lebrecht comment solidified my decision to subscribe to Classics Today.
.....And of course, Period Prokofiev and Shostakovich is coming down the pike... Can't wait for a Dave Hurwitz special on that 😂😂
Oh, good. Thank you for saving me from investing in yet another Mahler cycle! Thank you, thank you!
Dave, I believe in an earlier video you mentioned that Walter’s Mahler recordings aren’t representative of what Mahler himself would have done because they contained affectations that were present in his other non-Mahler recordings. What aspects of Walter’s Mahler would you argue to be authentically non-affectatious representations of Mahler’s music and why? (Perhaps this could be a subject of a whole video)
I talked about it at the time.
Period instruments for 20th century works, interesting concept! I would like to hear such recordings for Cage, Schuman, Corigliano, Bernstein, Boulez, etc. Some of these folks conducted their own music... highly doubtful authenticity if they weren't using period instruments or... employing vibrato 😂
Bruno Walter already played Mahler on period instruments, and period interpretation.
As the T shirt 👕 says: Abnormal is fine; Stupeed is not.
But the question remains: Why all this money 💰 should be wasted on something like this?
But Dave, surely the balances are that way, so we can hear the continuo part on the Harpsichord?
Good point.
I like when you throw the CDs. 😁
I hear they are doing the 5th this year. I hope they don’t plan on doing all of them
Oh, I don't know... a "One Part Per Voice" version of the 8th would be comedy gold.
@@ftumschk C'mon Joshua Rifkin, here's your chance!
You should do an a capella version of the 9th!
Oh dear god - a possible contender for the scarf of irredeemable chutzpah?
Also, I wonder if you would do a video about where record labels get their money from, considering there's virtually no demand for any of these recordings. I know you've referred to labels like DG as "vanity labels", receiving payment from the artists, but do they have enough money to cover the cost of all aspects of the recording, and if so, where is THAT money coming from? It's something I've been genuinely curious about...
The artists and ensembles raise the money from wherever they get support--municipalities, rich people, etc. There's no single model.
I really, really, REALLY, was waiting for this review by Dave's.
I think the whole concept of a HIP Mahler is plain stupidity. And it shows how far the musical world has gone (not in a good way).
Is there a period instrument recording of The Mighty Bruckner.
Sure. Yech.
Please don't give them any ideas.
The same conductor on this recording has emitted several Bruckner performances on record. The ones I sampled sounded bad.
@@metaljay842 🤢🤮
I think Norrington did a Bruckner 3 on EMI/Warner some time ago.
Ha! Might as well be Mahler on viols and mandolins! Nonsense. But I'm confused by your Norman Lebrecht bit, he's a penetrating critic isn't he? Or so I'd thought. I always see your wisdom and surely will here too, if you kingly explain what's up with N R
Norman Lebrecht is about as penetrating as the National Enquirer is newsworthy.
MY GOD! What could these fools have been thinking? I'd rather not know, for to get inside this orchestra's collective or conductor's head, may lead to madness, or at the very least barren sterility of musical appreciation. Dave: Whenever I hear an absolutely vile piece of music that sticks odiously in my ears, rather than leave it inside my head, I reach for my favourite interpretations in hopes of flushing it out. No one should have to suffer like this; play Walter, Klemperer or Haitink instead. I hope you'll feel better afterwards. Thanks for the warning of what not to listen to. PS: What colour scarf are you going to pull out at the end of the year for this performance? :) Take care!
That's a touch call. So many scarves apply.
@@DavesClassicalGuide You've got until the end of the year to make up your mind. Then again, wear all the scarves that apply. That just might be a first for your channel. :)
I like that last idea. Like they say, if it applies, do it! Cannot think of a better reason to establish a presidence. Maybe they might get the not so subtle hint as to how atrocious it is!
Man, I hate a review where you can't tell what the recommendation is. Should I buy this or not? 🤣 ("More vibrato than they used in the '60s" - yikes!)
. . . but other than that, Dave LOVES IT! . . . Is this really as bad as the 1938 Bruno Walter? . . . Now THAT'S bad! Walter never approved it for commercial release.
It's pretty bad...
I couldn't listen past the first 15 seconds.
Aren't we using the the same instruments 115 years later? Weren't Klemperer and Walter conducting back then?
Walter was Mahler's assistant in Vienna. . He premiered the first performance of the 9th. I will cut and paste Mahler's relationship with Klemperer:: "In 1905 he met Gustav Mahler while conducting the offstage brass at a performance of Mahler’s Symphony No. 2, Resurrection. He also made a piano reduction of the second symphony. The two men became friends, and Klemperer became conductor at the German Opera in Prague in 1907 on Mahler’s recommendation. Mahler wrote a short testimonial, recommending Klemperer, on a small card which Klemperer kept for the rest of his life. Later, in 1910, Klemperer assisted Mahler in the premiere of his Symphony No. 8, Symphony of a Thousand."
no, we're not using the same instrument at all. For example, full steel strings only became a thing in the aftermath of World War II
Period Mahler...please no! I'm waiting for the period Schoenberg...
Maybe we could hear an anachronistic performance of Pictures at an Exhibition with an orchestration using Handel-era instruments. At the least Handel would have been perfect for Pictures!
There actually is one: The Smithsonian Chamber Players under Kenneth Slowik. "Verklärte Nacht" on gut strings!
@@igorgregoryvedeltomaszewsk1148 oh no!
@@grantparsons6205 in the category "can't be unheard" though it's nowhere as "problematic" as the ensembles recording of the Adagietto where they try to emulate the sound of Mengelberg 1926.
Stupidity reigns supreme today.
Another comment were there really “period” instruments at the time of Mahler? By the turn of the century the instruments of the orchestra were already established and set.
But...I really wonder if there IS a market for such rubbish! Drugs and prostitution are terrible things, but they do have a market!
But...for HIP Mahler...really, who can be interested in such an absurdity? This something which really disconcerts me!
I would like (o maybe not) to hear these guys playing Mahler's 8th...
A HIP performance of Mahler? Pretty soon, we will have the HIP performance of John Williams’ score to Star Wars.
I know! I bet the Imperial March will sound quite menacing using sagbutts and valveless horns and trumpets.🙄
Thank you for the review. I am not surprised, and I’m not going to bother listening to it and ruining my day. With all we know about what Mahler wanted in an orchestra, this in fact throws the ENTIRE period instrument movement into question for me. Why would Bach and Mozart have disdained modern performance practice any more than Mahler would? On the whole we are _improving_ music-making by standing on the shoulders of those who came before. Just as in any field that involves craft.
If they're going to do "period" instruments, let them go all the way. I want to hear Mahler with recorders, crumhorns, and gambas.
Hoffnung did tschaikovsky 4th on them!
That wouldn't be period instruments! Period instruments means instruments from when the composer lived and worked :)
I said it once and I said it again. Period instruments only work well up until the early 1800s like Schumann, Chopin Mendelssohnish. There is no way it should go beyond Schumann especially in Mahler. I would honestly be very intrigued to see good period ensembles like Les Concert Des Nations and the Tafelmusik Baroque Orchestra or something like that approach a gargantuan Mahler symphony. Anima Eterna is another orchestra that goes beyond Schumann but I guess they get a pass becuase their “New World” and Tchaikovsky discs aren’t that bad.
By the early 20th Century instruments were pretty similar to nowadays', thus where in the world is the point of playing Mahler "on period instruments"? And I know there's discs of music by Ravel and Orff "on period instruments", even Schönberg on early-20th Century pianos... I think it's more like an attempt to market this kind of music to early music enthusiasts.
Perhaps the most pathetic thing about that is hiring a Spohr scholar as an advisor about Mahler - Musicologist by now tend to be extremely specialized, what they've done makes as much sense as hiring a Leoninus scholar as an advisor to record something by Stockhausen.
I don’t like the sound of HIP & Mahler at all. Unsurprising to me Dave
I listened to the sample on UA-cam. It is so horrible sounding. The strings sound lousy with no vibrato and as for the portamenti they sound like a group of delinquents making fun, there's portamenti everywhere! and not well played at that. It's more like it's been influenced by early Penderecki than HIP dogma.
I always appreciate HIP performed before romantic period but not late 19th century.
The Romantic piano music like Schumann and Chopin sound amazing on fortepianos. The good sounding ones at least.
The small ensembles that try to do their own thing everywhere. With Mozart at the latest, the period is over. Period. Even in baroque music the people understand that fast tempo and harsh drums isn't all. In the same way late romantic conductors played baroque music in a wrong way the today's second neo classical school abuses late romantic music for their own ego.
I see the latest edition of BBC radio 3 'Record review' had it as a choice pick by the guest 'reviewer' the clip they played didn't convince me! and I sensed the regular presenter wasn't that convinced either.
What a stupid idea.
A pox upon their house!
It seems to me that a big problem with a project like this is that Mahler was definitely writing not only for his own time but also posterity. As a result, I am sure that he would have been thrilled and fascinated with changes brought about by the evolution in musicianship, musical training and technology that have resulted in the subsequent masterful performances of the later recorded history of the work. Playing the piece on the actual instruments strikes me as an interesting historical curiosity, but if played badly on those instruments, I can't imagine that Mahler, who was a candidate for most disciplined musician in human history, would have approved.
If there were a justice system for music, this guy would be on his way to prison.
The concept "play it on instruments that were used in 1910" would have been intriguing if presented to the renowned Mahler specialist conductors when they were still around and active until some twenty to thirty years ago, but then I'm pretty sure that they would all have turned it down saying:
"For what reason? There will be so little difference that nobody in the audience will tell the difference!".