"I Quit Playing in Church" Musicians are walking away!
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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This is a financial literacy issue. Wealth is not about how much you make, but how much you keep. Playing at church to get paid and solely relying on that money to live is wild.
absolutely!!! that sums up the video!
It’s both. You need to make more in order to keep more while also living within your means.
2 things.
1. I grew up around musicians saying the church was holding out on the “real money” cuz I wasn’t there yet 😂 now at $10k per year at my church a decade later ( it’s all good they got realistic expectations now)
2. Like Phil walker said the $1000+ per week isn’t the standard 😂 they mindset was I’d get paid like that if my skills were there. That’s def not the standard. My church ain’t got that ability and I love my church I don’t want to bankrupt them 😂
@@DevinShoulders man you right bro! Realistic expectations is important. Musicians that get paid that much is not common.
@@DevinShoulders I don’t charge my church a lot either. Because I love them like family. My wife is also the MD there, so that plays a part too.
Let’s go with the content! 🔥
YESSIR!!!!!
What’s the average pay for a church musician in the US? Been playing for church here in New Zealand for almost 10 years and haven’t earned anything monetary. Encouraging to hear people make money from playing in church. 💯
@@sssstarl4 hey man good question! Average it’s tough to say because that number could look very different depending on where you live in the states but on a typical Sunday I’ve heard of musicians making anywhere from $100-1,200 on a Sunday morning. Again it’s a very broad range and a lot of factors determine how much you can make.
I agree I only play drums at church on Sunday and practice couple times a week. With that I have a finance degree working on cause I only do this for fun and to praise the lord because this can’t help me buy a Porsche
@@dripking4155 Amen… I just want an old Boxster…
Leaving the church musician field freed me from a experience that soured over the 48 years I served. Once you seen the truth you can't unsee it........
@@Soundofjoy man listen!! 🚀
every church is different man, I had MANY sour experiences. Just don’t put them all in the same box 👌🙏
@@DevinShoulders Agreed but, when you read the scriptures and adhere to it's teaching you kinda expect church leadership to do the same or better than you. I lost belief in ministry when it became a system.
@@Soundofjoy I completely understand that and for that reason, I always keep church services I accept "small" because like you said once it gets to a certain point the toxic "system" aspect of it starts to kick in. I stick to playing for small 50-100 member church where I get $100-200 range for that reason (4 to 500 can still be ok but you gotta be careful lol) . It gets to "business only/toxic" when you go higher than that.
1. If musiciens are considered as a full time member of Church ministries (Apotle, pastor, evangelist, prophet): they could be paid as Paul has suggested "1Cor9:1-18"
2. if musiciens are considered as Levites, they could not be paid, since Levites, tithes, sacrifices , the Temple, etc. do not existing no more. They is any musiciens in the New Testament;
You want to be paid, find a job
I work full time Monday to Saturday and the Sunday for church
For those looking for something to make a living on while also doing music...try picking up a trade.
@@joshjones9749 if playing music is your gift and it shall make room for you... Why do you think this is not your tool for making a living?
Yep! Facts! I’m in Heavy Duty Mechanic
Music is their craft. You don't get it.
@@Staykool777 I do cause it’s mine as well…but…it don’t make enough lol. You gotta have something that supplies your gifts and sometimes you’ve got to do the things you don’t like.
@@joshjones9749 I was a mechanic before I was a musician… now I work behind a desk… I can’t go back sir.
I play at church but I also have a full-time job so I don't really worry about church payments, all I ask for is gas money. I truly believe musicians should be paid, but I agree with KB, church is not a full-time job (unless it's a mega church). Your smaller to mid-sized churches realistically cannot afford musicians like KB.
You can say this about any job/gig. Musicianship isn't any different, but people treat it so because they think all we do is "press keys" and "bang the drums". People don't realize how significant music is and how much of a gift it is. Yes, there's people that go to school for it. Also, we have these major music record labels, which make money off of the music that they put out, so, what makes this different? I think a lot of people are excusing the actions of the pastors not being honest about pay. At the end of the day, we are all trying to make ends meet...doesn't matter how we do it.
I’ve always found this to be interesting. Musicians who play for free for THEIR worship services have a 9-5 through the week and are quite financially stable. But musicians who live exclusively off their gigs have the most money problems, EVEN when they’re earning better than six figures.
This isn’t a Church problem, it’s a personal financial responsibility problem. It really doesn’t matter who you’re playing for, if you lack monetary discipline you’re going to blow through your cash. Professional artists have ALWAYS had this problem.
I’ve been blessed enough for 4 years to have a stable job earning $26/hr… and have all benefits. Dental, vision, medical. 401k. Before I was full time musician with no benefits earning about $800/week. Now I’m earning $2400/week having a full time job and playing music part time. No rehearsals. No outings. And I’m only part time technically because I play 1 day out of the week, I will never go back full time musician without benefits.
Man kell I made $20 a Sunday & what I would never understood was How Many Musicians get paid low from church but speakers and pastors get paid Lots of Money. I Quit church in March and I make way more as a Music producer.
I view playing for church as ministry more so now. Growing it was a cool thing to tell my friends (some) when they ask what I do I play for church. Some shamed me for doing such a thing but nowadays they say that’s awesome. I use it as cushion so if I don’t like my full time job my income doesn’t completely stop
If everyone in Church quit for any issues they would have... Take your money you are in your right but why would you be paid, don't you have any job aside?
1. If musiciens are considered as a full time member of Church ministries (Apotle, pastor, evangelist, prophet): they could be paid as Paul has suggested "1Cor9:1-18"
2. if musiciens are considered as Levites, they could not be paid, since Levites, tithes, sacrifices , the Temple, etc. do not existing no more. They is any musiciens in the New Testament;
You want to be paid, find a job
Churches don't value musicians. They love to exploit them.
@@thymick5581with all due respect my brother.. if pastors and speakers can get paid Musicians deserve to get paid unless you have a Job that you make like $50k a year on average. To answer your question, I prefer not to comment on that.
This culture of church "gigging" is wrong......musicians only go to church to get paid, hopping from church to church and they have forgotten to be "the church", most of them don't even sit in a service to hear the word and participate in a worship service, and that is wrong.....We are part of the church as a body first, then we use our gifts to serve the Lord and to edify others, but our identity is not based on what we do, is in who we are first, His children, his sheep.
If your only reason for playing in church is to get paid…. that’s an issue
@@oljones31 I agree ☝🏽 👏🏽
say that to the pastor....ijs
@@oljones31while I agree, it still doesn't stop the fact that your bills have to pay.
Not really. It's an issue when musicians get robbed by pastors, who claims to "love the LORD"
@@MandyGee000 if a Pastor does not pay what they agree to pay… you are not obligated to be there. Just communicate to them that’s bad business and move on. A pastor can rob you unless you let them.
IF GOD HASNT LED YOU TO MUSIC MINISTRY GET OUT AND DONT LOOK BACK! IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FULL TIME WORK IN A SMALL CHURCH YOU ARE DELUSIONAL. THOSE JOBS ARE FEW ARE FAR BETWEEN! DO IT BECAUSE YOU LOVE GOD AND HIS MUSIC…OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE PAINFULLY DISAPPOINTED ☹️!
These are not church musician issues. These are musician issues. Maybe employee of any kind issues.
I play Bass at church in VA. It’s a relatively small church and we get paid very little. It’s never been about the money as it started off an a volunteer situation. Over time i started getting payments monthly. I’m blessed to have a decent paying 9 to 5 and what I make at church can put a meal or 2 on the table for my family.
I walked away 10 years ago....youre better off in the club...some of the stuff you see as the church musician is insane. Some churches feel the musician shdnt be paid but say that same thing to the pastor. Being a church musician is the most difficult role for a musician. You really need to be proficiant in all keys on your instrument-epecially organ and it is some work
Please!!! hear the heart of what I’m saying and please don’t assume anything else. The heart of what I communicated in this video is don’t look at church solely to supply your income. If you are gifted/blessed enough to be paid by church be appreciative and get a job to supply more. God should always be the center that goes without saying.
Until musicians are willing to walk away from depending on the church musician income, the problem of pay will continue persist.
John Mike makes some good points but a caveat is that some musicians don’t want to do anything but perform live on their instrument…This is not knocking those individuals like John Mike, but we must be clear that a lot of church musicians could use a higher salary and more benefits.
So the solution is to walk away if pay is an issue. Most of us would agree that in many cases a musician can work a part time job and get more pay and less headache as opposed to dealing with certain types of churches. Not all churches are low balling, but there are plenty of them that are.
Lastly, have we ever noticed how it’s musicians constantly bringing this topic of pay to the table and oftentimes NOT pastors or churches 🤔. Something to consider. I don’t believe this is a musical problem but instead a church problem. Js
Great video & God bless brother!
@@LivingHisWordDaily Let’s ask the question… if a church could just run the music from backing tracks ( which some churches do) or an anointed individual came through and volunteered… you as a pastor would consider it.
Some musicians have to even provide the setup they play on as well and do it without a fee… Music is important… but I feel the word of God and the commitment of setting the atmosphere comes first. The money for me always came second.
Ableton live could replace a lot of us, so the fact that we still get paid in the midst of all this technology the churches could be using is a blessing.
When they church folks don't want to pay, they hit you with the "YOUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN" stuff 😂😂😂
Church is not cardinal it is a spiritual place.. so musician who use the church as a GIG or a pay day.. are there for the MONEY. God does not need these type of musician... sick 😫
I’ve been through some of it all as a musician. I struggled with the idea of getting paid as a musician for years and even the idea of only playing gospel music. Long story but God provided opportunities for me to get paid to play which slowly broke that mental barrier off of me. Even now I believe God has given everyone talents, gifts, abilities or however people want to call them for others and also to help sustain you. Not muzzling the oz is a principle.
Each person needs to seek God on how they fit the bigger picture of the kingdom and how we fit in it. The church is just one aspect of the kingdom and not the whole of it. God needs his people everywhere. No matter what God has given you it’s ok to enjoy the benefits of his blessings. Let the word, the Holy Ghost and your conscience guide you on who he made you to be. We all will make good and bad decisions.
Deep✨
I played the piano at church for years, when I was growing up. I would never imagine accepting any money for that. It was my praise offering, my way to worship. I don’t believe anyone should be paid for church work.
This is the problem with the church! This right here!!!! 🤦🏽♂️
According to a Barna survey in 2021 they found that the majority of churches in the US have an attendance of less than 90 adults. And these smaller churches are more likely to have low income families attending. Only 2% of all churches have a regular attendance of 1000 or more. So, the expectation that churches pay their musicians a full-time liveable salary, medical, dental, vision, life insurance, and retirement benefits is simply an unrealistic expectation. Like Kell said, what you make playing in church should be one part of your total financial plan.
Thank you for hearing the heart of what i was saying !! Alot of these comments missed what i was saying lol
100% facts I haven’t nothing against full time musicians but I understand the life I want to live requires more than one income ..we as musicians have to think about the future I don’t want to be 65 an having to go to rehearse for a gig no shade 😂
I used to play Bass in Church for about two years give or take. I got payed maybe $30 for that Sunday but to be honest, I didn't care if I got payed or not. I told the Worship Leader that I did not want any money. But he insisted. Well fast forward and 2020 happened. And very bad situations and complications happened and I stopped playing in Church. This made me sit back and reflect on the songs that we were playing. And based on my convictions, I could not play music in Church ever again. Now if I tried, I would absolutely fail miserably. I would probably make a lot of mistakes in my playing. So the days of playing in Church at all, are completely over for me. Never again.
This happens because instead of you giving your gift to God and allowing him to use you in your gift in YOUR church that you stay in, alot of musicians want to go church hopping and playing in gigs to perform and make a name for themselves while simultaneously getting finances when a real gospel musician especially old school knows it's not about the money it's about winning souls to Christ. (I'm from an really old school pentecostal church if you know you know).
What in the world is 'multiple 6 figures'??? You make 6 figures from multiple jobs? If so, just lump it all together if it's all from playing music. "I make $346,000 a yr as a musician". Makes more sense and is just simpler to understand.
I stopped playing drums at church, but it wasn’t about money. It started to feel like a job and I didn’t like that…I was starting to not like playing. Honestly, before watching this video, I had no idea church musicians got paid. I knew the music directors did because they’re on the staff.
1. If musiciens are considered as a full time member of Church ministries (Apotle, pastor, evangelist, prophet): they could be paid as Paul has suggested "1Cor9:1-18"
2. if musiciens are considered as Levites, they could not be paid, since Levites, tithes, sacrifices , the Temple, etc. do not existing no more. They is any musiciens in the New Testament;
You want to be paid, find a job
Too many churches abuse musicians economically and the ONLY reason that it persists so often rest with how many preachers won’t stop lying about compensating musicians.
Jamal Hartwell, John Mike and Yaahn Hunter as well they’re changing the game!! With the plugins, courses and all that’s how you succeed as a musician that’s a great way to build a side hustle. Gospel Musicians need to expend their genre as well man…listen to some Kaytranada or something become a DJ, learn a trade until you truly master the marketing of music.
Before people comment they should review their skills before comparing themselves to someone else who actually practises and has a lot to offer a church/customer
Church is not a job don't get it wrong get a job and be grateful that God gives you health every day
500 to 600 before taxes! Once taxes are factored in, that $24k will be in the teens.
Some people are real musicians and live off music completely and they play for anyone who hires them.
I quit playing in church because it was entertainment and not worship.
Just can’t depend on it because budgets cut and you gotta have residual income coming
Church gigs are my main source of income: said no one ever..
I know a few ppl that are set up to retire nicely when the time comes
Very important conversation here
@@passportaffair indeed
The statement 7:31 is totally right
Gig or ministry?
TBH.... I don't get paid to play the keys at church and I've been playing in the church ministry since I was 16 years old. I'm now 38 years old and so my pastor says its not your ability, its your availability to serve and your giving your talents to the Lord and you shouldn't get paid to do it.
do you agree or am I being fooled to by my pastor?
@@Moananu the real question is, do you feel you should be paid. Pray on it, then speak to your pastor. When I came to the church I’m at now, I gave them what I needed and we worked out what they could pay and I was good. I don’t ask them for allot because they don’t have it like that, plus my wife grew up in that church so they have become like family to me now.
Be direct and ask what your church can do.
If you are ok with not getting paid, then that’s ok too.
Your pastor is not wrong for giving you his opinion… but if you don’t agree, you should have that talk. I’m 45 , I’ve been in music ministry 12 years… I started late.
@@oljones31 I’ve spoken to my pastor about this issue longtime ago he brushed it off by saying what I commented earlier. I put a lot of time and effort into learning my craft and I also am our vocal coach for our singers as well so I feel my time and effort into the ministry goes unnoticed in the church and they think playing the keys is simple so I bite my tongue when it comes to this.
@@Moananu I played at a place for 4 years where the pastor said they would pay me and did not… I moved on. Trust me when I say this, there are more churches that need musicians and are willing to pay than there are musicians available. At least where I live. I could play all weekend if I wanted to… and I’m far from the best musician sir.
@@oljones31 I’m happy for you I just wish I got some reward for my efforts it takes it toll on me mentally its not to praise me or anything. I do this for the Lord off course but if I pay my tithing and play keys in the ministry and don’t get paid for it. Then maybe it’s time to pull the plug on it.
But yeah I wanna get paid to support my family
@@Moananu I would pray on this. If you spoke with the pastor and he refuses to address you, that’s a respect issue. If you feel you should be paid and they won’t come to the table, I would move on.
You helped us sir
Love your content man keep doing what your doing love it💯💯💯🔥🔥
@@JTechxx_14 thank you bro!! Appreciate you watching !!
Good episode! 👍🏾
My guy !!
I believe other than the pastor all the other positions at church are voluntary and any money received is a blessing if a musician wants to make a living playing music then choose another outlet join a band or a become session musician the church will be fine without you play for God not for money
The statement that you've just made is totally contradictory to the Bible. God does not share that belief. And values the music and the music creators to the point that his instructions throughout the entire old testament regarding this topic, is very clear that the music minstrels are to receive a 10th of every tithe that comes in. As well as land etc... they were to be taken care there first! And then do other things to gain increase, not the other way around.
That's what this entire argument for decades have been about and yet I hear no one refer to what the Bible specifically says. Because if they did, this wouldn't be an argument to begin with.
The church shouldn’t frown at musicians that play,teach, or direct outside of the church. When I was younger i wrestled with my mother about the type of music I had to play and learn being a musician. She thought classical music was sacred and Jazz music was of the devil. Every talent or gift comes from God. If you were a lawyer would you be a church lawyer, a church doctor, a church plumber etc etc 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
isnt it about God..?
@@Abandonments567 hear the heart of what I’m saying and please don’t assume anything else. The heart of what I communicated in this video is don’t look at church solely to supply your income. If you are gifted/blessed enough to be paid by church be appreciative and get a job to supply more. God should always be the center that goes without saying.
I was in the phone with a pastor who said he doesn’t pay his musicians if Watch Night was on a Sunday!!!
I agree for sure do you have to have multiple streams of income especially especially in this day and age for sure keep up the great work keep up the great content definitely learning a lot
@@dpiper717 much love bro appreciate your support 💪🏽
I sincerely enjoy your content bro💯 I’m also planning to purchase some of your products soon💪🏽
@@robertcockfield2841 appreciate the support man means a lot 💪🏽
I completely subscribe to this message. Until us musicians take action before the churches will adhere and adjust accordingly. ❤ Quick question bro.. which audio interface do you recommend for someone who want to teach virtual keyboard lessons.
hey bro check out a focusrite interface!
@@KellBailey Ok, thanks.
Isaiah 26:13 speaks of other lords that ruled over God’s people - If your view of serving the church with your musical gifts as a way to peruse wealth and possessions, then you really should consider taking a step back to just engage in worship with other believers to refocus on God.
1. If musiciens are considered as a full time member of Church ministries (Apotle, pastor, evangelist, prophet): they could be paid as Paul has suggested "1Cor9:1-18"
2. if musiciens are considered as Levites, they could not be paid, since Levites, tithes, sacrifices , the Temple, etc. do not existing no more. They is any musiciens in the New Testament;
You want to be paid, find a job
I whole heartily agree! Thats why i mentioned in the video "Being a church musician financially should not be the pinnacle of ones life" If you are blessed enough to receive income as a musician at your church praise God, but create a stream of income away from church. I hope you watched the whole video and i pray that it is not being misinterpreted.
most musicians use church gigs as a steppingstone or as a way to take care of their basic necessities. I think you're speaking to the wrong audience, here.
@@KellBailey Your video is spot on - I'm with you 100% on this, also now subscribed to your channel
Excellent bro
@@marcusastanley thank you bro!
Putting a price on the gift of the holy spirit is crazy work
@@akinaroony9059 who’s doing that? The gift of the Holy Spirit is free from God?
Im saying people that want to get payed for worshiping. Im not apposed to being payed by your church, i also agree with you that it should be more of a part time. My take on it is that we are here to serve God and most importantly we as musicians should keep our selfs clean, prayed up and ready at all times to worship, Jesus will provide us with the rest.
just my opinion brother. I Love your content and im also from (Northern) VA so keep putting us on da map🙌💯💯
@@akinaroony9059unfortunately in a perfect world that sounds great. The idea that “Jesus provides us with the rest isn’t a biblical construct.
@@NathanielKelleyIII I mean it's in the bible that the musicians in church get paid