Glenn's incredible thoughts aside, I ALMOST most appreciate his willingness to let others speak, uninterupted, for 20 minutes. What a gift the man is to this nation.
Think about the divisiveness that current wokedom produces. Such friendships, mutual respect, willingness to explore the hard questions would otherwise not exist. We had roughly 40 years of this (1965-2005) before "better ideas" started turning it around. I have never been personally convinced that much, if not most of those 'better' ideas did not serve one purpose above all else. To cloak an underlying foundation of race hatred. Which poses an interesting question: Is that something that just has to work its way through, in the natural order of things? My answer to that would be no, because there is far too much damage done along the way - and primarily toward the people supposedly being helped.
The measure of one's commitment to reason and common sense -- is what they do in the face of challenge when their own interests are at stake. Just like you're being challenged right now -- and as I challenged Loury last year: ***************** Glenn Loury once called my writing “brilliant.” And when he opened my site last year, he was “blown away” and “signed up.” But when I challenged him on his hero, suddenly he wasn’t so keen on the truth. Based on the claims in this community: You would consider that information on the merits - in a calm, cool, and collected manner. That means you don’t defend before you consider. It means you don’t fuss over tone and website style to deflect from the argument. It means you don't sling snippets of certitude and childish insults for a fix - you show up and act your age. And just for kicks, try showing a modicum of courtesy for once - listening and learning for a change. And if you really wanna go for the gold, come with the willingness to be wrong. You'd be amazed by what you can see with such courage. Glenn said that they had no argument against his “Rebuttal to Brown University’s letter on racism in the United States.” Neither do you on your “National Treasure.” Like Loury, you wanna confine Sowell’s record to a box of beliefs that suit you, and ignore anything that doesn’t. So the rules of argument you espouse on a daily basis don’t apply to you . . . A lot of that goin’ around: onevoicebecametwo.life/2021/12/07/behold-the-legacy-of-your-beloved-sowell-part-i/
Every time I listen to Glenn Loury speak I am more impressed with his wisdom, his honesty and his willingness to say things that many folks in his community simply do not want to hear coming from a black man. He could pick up the mantle from Thomas Sowell and I'd feel like we hadn't lost a step.
@ondolite3789 you need to take your own advise. But mostly be proud of these two men who have such wisdom and common sense. They have walked the walk.
Yes, Prof. Loury the language you use always makes things clear. And it inspires me to communicate more clearly in all spheres of my existence. I hope you are with us for many, many more years. Best of luck to you, Carol lynn
PDesaulniers: I've been touting Heather MacDonald to my friends and any person who has the wherewithal to hear the truth about crime & the reasons for the breakdown of the family in America. She is a VICIOUS truth teller and she doesn't care who she tells it to!
Thank you so much Glenn. One of the best most wide ranging discussions I've ever heard. I will send this to my very liberal brother who will unfortunately probably refuse to watch it. Keep doing what you do and don't give up, America needs you!
One of the best discussions I have heard in a long time. Both of you are such great communicators and true intellectuals. I pray your wisdom finds its way to a large platform so more people can hear the truth you speak.
Heather is so right, Glenn. You are just such a fine, eloquent, thoughtful man. What a pleasure it must be to count oneself among your graduate students. Thank you for everything.
It’s actually really insulting and a lot white folks dont understand if blacks find white folks to blame for the issues generations ago why would they then look to the white forks and government who caused the problems for a solution?! It makes no sense logically.
If your name was Uncle Sam you would know Michelle Obama has attended many stop the Black on Black crime rallies...... But like Uncle Joe said YOU AIN'T BLACK......
Define “college mismatch”. To get into Ivy League schools, you MUST get accepted into it. You’re implying that the only people of color of women that go to Ivy League schools are all on sports scholarships.
33:25 Glenn's best insights are always through his rants. Also, more people need to speak honestly and openly about this colossal social problem that we aren't allowed to talk about.
Thank you for having Heather on. Perhaps you don't agree on everything with these debated topics, but it's great and also sadly rare to see such constructive conversations these days.
I used to be a hard-core leftist and I went to the BLM protests and Tweeted #BurnItDown. But because of pure luck, I found myself to be friends with a black American in a AirBnB during summer 2020 (with many individual rooms) and I noticed the "social justice warriors" treated him differently and didn't hang out with us and it was the conservative Trump supporters that stood had dinner, and a drink with us. That had a huge impact on me. Of course it's anecdotal, but as a minority myself, I have always felt more socially welcome and treated better by the so-called "racists" and I have felt slightly excluded from the "woke" (even when I was woke myself).
My pal from seminary, black, a hybrid of conservative views on say abortion and homosexuality, but very "progressive" in terms of social "race" issues. EX: A white person is the only one who can be racist, because bigotry + power. He could not fathom my having voted for Trump the first time around, because he knew me to be level-headed, caring about people, and not a racist. But, he couldn't get his brain around "Trump", for anyone, let alone a Christian, to have voted for him. Then....years later he was honest with me in admitting that Orange Man did get HBCs funded. For 10 years. And that Obama never did that. So...maybe his gears were finally turning in terms of seeing things through varied lenses that were not, in fact, racist.
Same. A few years ago in my early twenties I was the same. Freaked out when Trump won, believed much of the media. Then I realised about 4 months into the Trump presidency that EVERY NIGHT it was about how bad Trump was and how stupid Conservatives are but the other side were not really like that . They seemed.. normal, kind, sensible. I looked around me and my lefty friends were nearly all angry and Toxic and hated everything about Western culture and it seemed they hated even each other and even themselves. After I stepped away and also after I saw several media lies one after the other, and how they baited various identity groups WITH these lies, I could never go back. I will never support a group as hateful and divisive and dishonest as I now realise the Woke side is. That's not to say I wouldn't support certain left wing policies IF I thought they'd be a higher net good but until they stop this hateful damaging agenda I'm well away. I felt most guilty about the thoughts I had towards my Auntie who has been a Conservative for a long time and she would often say kind things about other groups and other races even if sometimes they weren't on her 'side' and I just always thought 'she's just saying that to appease me' but I realised , that's how alot of normal people, centrists, Conservatives, Libertarians and some moderate Liberals are. I have to say as well, I'm absolutely STUNNED that John (McWorter) still votes Democrat. I just can't see how it's an option at the moment even if you have moderate left policies, the Conservatives ARENT a true solid right wing party anyway. Like people say 'They're just Demicrats driving the speed limit.' Not necessarily a good thing but it definitely makes me wonder - If they're basically the Democrats without the wokeness , toxicity and self loathing, surely at least until the Democrats have straightened themselves out , it has to be worth lending the more sensible party your vote for one or two cycles.
This. THIS. And I appreciate when you go off Glenn. Who should not become outraged with the crime situation today, and the absolute refusal to accept reality?
the vast majority of violent crime and gun crime in my city, Toronto, occurs within the Jamaican community, but no one, politicians, police officials, news media, talk radio pundits, can admit this fact for fear of being labelled a racist. The Jamaican community needs to address this issue head on, and stop blaming over policing.
This is such a great show & gives me hope for our future. I live in Oakland & what is Im seeing on a daily basis is so disheartening. Thank you for sharing this gentlemen, I wish everyone in our country could watch this show & see how men who are intelligent, speak & act & converse. If you 3 were politicians, this country would be so much better off.
Glenn, keep doing and saying these truths. You're brilliant 👏. Don't give up! I grew up in the Jim Crow South and wouldn't take nothing for my journey.
Outstanding and rigorously honest discussion among two social commentators who prefer to leverage factual data and truthful discourse over frothy emotionalism.
Great video much greater message and meaning!!! This video is informative insightful and accurate these 2 academic scholars are data driven intellectuals are a pleasure to listen to I wish there were more venues like this one!!!
I love and follow Glenn Loury for a long time now. But this conversation got me a chance to meet Heather Mac Donald and I only can say "WOW!" Her class, eloquence, rigor and smile were completely awesome. Thank you both for such honest and spirited discussion we all have the distinct pleasure to be part of. Please carry on.
Two of the greatest thinkers of our time. Please continue to help America and the world. BTW: Your hearts and humanity need the largest platforms available. If, not available, then please create them. I love people, all people..please carry on!
Thanks for/to both of you. I’ve never been much of a reader of books etc. However, in the last 20 years I have sought out knowledge by listening to great voices. I plan on using Audible to hear the words and thoughts of great people like the two of you.
The foundation of black families has collapsed. And it is for white families,too. As a 20 year public health nurse I learned that. I evolved from a liberal to a conservative after visiting thousands of families and seeing how the lack of a father and the lack of a religious foundation was destroying our families and destroying our society.
@@George-vf7ss No, no. In societies with a traditional family, the husband is entitled to all the money the wife earns. If she's single, it should go to her Father. Women weren't allowed to own property, vote, or keep money they earned with their labor.
Jillayne Holter: If the woman taking care of the family was permitted to make the same money as a man and afford health insurance, they wouldn't have needed your services. As if when a man deserts his family that means they can't be religious afterward.
The voice of Professor Loury has become a most unique and profound expression heard throughout this promised land. This heartbroken, confused, bewildered and shamed collection of identities. These various herds of partisan polarities searching for meaning and for answers that plumb the depths of humanity long before plunging into damned despair. Those rants. And especially that proud cry of moral outrage - expressing what many feel and few will dare utter. We can understand and even forgive a nation in Africa blown apart by civil war, chaos, tyranny, political mayhem, economic meltdown and the end results of cultural fatalism. We can forgive such places for failing to protect their children and keep them safe. But America? Practicing a kind of invisible phantom civil war deep within the understructure of its own failed communities, producing dozens of thousands of lives that did not matter. While whatever does matter prances a performance art for an adoring media and a bloodthirsty public appetite for the stuff. Look away and look back again, because it satisfies some kind of lust born deep within whatever dances with the fetish. These are sacrifices. No less than what the Aztecs flung screaming off the pyramid heights of temples built to the gods of wonder. It's just that this religion being practiced is not sure what kind of deity is being served. Apparently it has become as impure as original sin to object. To disagree. To even notice and criticize. I can spend five minutes contemplating the sound of that voice. I can spend those same five minutes contemplating what that sound might mean within an inner circle, a social circle, a familial circle, whose intimacy and established respect and yes, even love itself produces who knows just what can make how much of a difference? To a fatherless child. While we know that the vast majority of young black male black lives busy extinguishing other black lives never have known such a thing. As if it didn't matter. As if THAT is a thing that does not matter. Well then, how is it that their lives can matter so very much? When it matters just how we "contextualize" the damned thing? When it matters so very much how we politicize the thing, polarize the thing, wokify the thing, sift and sort out the thing, prod and poke and tamp down the thing into something that - becomes only useful somehow to throw back in whitey's face? For instance. I don't pretend to feel that shame. I don't pretend to feel that pain. I cannot possibly shed my skin, my roots, my history, my experience in life. But I can imagine. Simple acts of the heart have taught me how to do that. One might think that howl of outrage would wake up Liberty herself, cause her to look around behind her back, see what's going on. As if it requires such a miracle as that to make a nation notice.
Whoa! Heather came on with such a forceful acknowledgement of America's undeniable and deplorable history of racism that I think it caught Glenn off guard. He kind of leaned back, and with a confused look in his eyes, I half expected him to say "WHO ARE YOU??? And what have you done with Heather MacDonald??"
Asian man, grew up watching Full House, TGIF. Grandpa was a war hero and leader; had a stern hand but was respectful and rational. My role models were Danny Tanner, Uncle Jessie, Joey, and Carl Winslow. This helped to establish a strong sense of right and wrong. Contributes to who I am today.
@@regpharvey "Wokeism" primarily benefjts them. Dark-skinned black women are the only people you can't hold accountable under wokeism. They're black, dark, and women. They are playing "victim" as they rise all the way to the top.
Thank you Professor Loury. Your voice is so important and gratefully recieved. I really do feel that we're on a precipice and we need based intelligent sensible people like yourself to continue speaking and converting those with the temporary Insanity of Wokeness. Because if we don't pull ourselves together, in 15 years we won't have the privelege of debating pronouns and making token gestures whilst ignoring real issues because I can assure people of one thing, China, an Authoritarian country on track to be twice as powerful and wealthy as America by 2032, is not doing the same.
Two of my favorite public intellectuals... Much better interview than with John McWhorter, though he's right on certain things... You are bravely stating the obvious -- that which is most in need of statement.
As a Minnesotan that lived through that time, it was all about the politics. The mayor of Minneapolis told the cops to let them but down the precinct. The mayor of St. Paul said that is not happing here. We are all for peaceful protest, but you should not be allowed to burn it all down. At the time my friend in the national guard, they had to accompany firetrucks because they were being attached.
That quote from Guialli really hit hard. As she said it I flashed back to my 72 years of life I can see I am where I am not bc I learned about my blackness but because I step out waaaay outside the community norms. If I had stayed in my lane my life not have been nearly as rich and fufilling
After seeing the polarization during the “pandemic” - people should not be surprised to learn of how humans can be cruel to each other - on many/any occasions for any reason
They use songs as a memory device. Over time songs were developed for different destinations. The book "A Song For Satawal" by Kenneth Browser covers this quite nicely. There were songs for other things such as making a canoe. These songs were thought from an early age and often repeated through life. In making a canoe the old men would stand on one side the boys on the other. The men doing the work would be in the middle doing the work to the instructions of the song. Even without writing there are many ways to accurately remember things.
This interview is good brain food. Thank you. Does anyone know if heather Mac Donald has ever had a online discussion with Amy wax. I’d be interested to see it.
46:17 Heather: Giuliani was one of America’s greatest mayors --- And she sites many examples of a time when Giuliani was inspirational. However.... 51:30 Glen replies, "Good to hear and good to know because his legacy is going to be forever tarnished by the role he played in the 2020 election." (Heather nods in agreement)
Good example of the boomer class needing to retire at a certain point. A major issue is the boomer class refusing to give up power and to step back as they clearly become so invalid they cannot speak coherently let alone perform their duties. No one will ever convince me a 72 or 80 year old mayor or judge is as competent as a 45 or 52 year old one
I hope she's an inspirational figure for the black community 50 years from now....a white academic woman who refused to infantalize the black community....someone who gave them dignity and respect by demanding they be held to the standards of the social contract as opposed to being a modern progressive who treats the standards as the problem.
Problem from the beginning. Some Blacks don't see oppression because they accept it as normal. Dr Loury grew up in Chicago Illinois. One of most racist cities in America. The oppression doesn't apply to me is so sad. Would like Dr Loury take road trip through some Sundown Towns in America.
Speaking of the tragedy of violence from the black community, I am glad that someone has addressed violence against 'privileged' minorities such as East and South Asians, and those from the Middle East and North Africa.
How curious that the various mechanisms ostensibly trotted out to benefit blacks - lowering educational standards, non-enforcement of laws, etc - do more harm to black people than anyone else. At some point, it becomes legitimate to ask if harm is not the point. Foreseeable consequences are never accidental, so when a proposal increases crime, the most logical conclusion is that the increase was the goal.
Fucking hell finally, an intellectual conservative. I have been searching high and low for someone like this for years. Academia needs more right leaning people like this.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but "out of wedlock" isn't the issue, it's "out of stable relationship." Lot's of the kids these days aren't interested in marriage, but they absolutely are interested in a stable relationship. Just sayin...
It's deeper than that. It's not just about the thing itself, it's about how the whole of the society and culture behaves. The standards that it sets and the expectations. The absence of marriage allows the rot to set in across the board.
You know as well as I do that marriage is leagues above a live in girlfriend/boyfriend in commitment and what used to be the social recognition of a condoned relationship that is why it's loss is so destabilizing.
Blacks who hold on to the oppression and wrongs committed against us Americans of African Decent in our country's past, it always reminds me of the man or woman who gets into a new relationship with someone that is completely supportive and beneficial to their existence, but decides to fight a battle that should have been waged against the partner by whom they'd been wronged, I'm deeply both irritated and saddened. For I say, "When the promised land is found, let go of the animosity held towards the desert you've left and live happily like a man or woman who now has access to the peace and freedoms our forefathers prayed for. Yes, racism and hate will always exist. Because truth be told, Mankind will never be rid of ignorance. But only a fool lives in a castle and is determined to sleep naked on the cold floor. We American People of African Decent must recognize what present America has to offer, and let that BS of the past fall by the wayside! Otherwise, we'll be nothing more than psychological PRISONERS that walk Chain-Free!
The people who swoop in and accuse Glen of being a sellout, U. Tom, etc...never prove with evidence where and how he's wrong. They attack ad hominem...and then run off.
I hate that shit. Any black man in America can do whatever he wants he is not bound by his blackness to only do "black" things. That whole premise is a mind virus that is designed to keep black people in a spot that people who don't care about them and want to put and keep them in that spot. If a black person does figure skating that's a black thing to do because they are a black person doing that. Every person of every race is an individual first and composed of much more than just the color of their skin. We have all forgotten that it seems.
You two are great. Someone needs to find a way to speak no nonsense realities, such as these, directly to the black parents (most often mothers) and the children by the time they are in middle school. It's my belief, that the mothers have been mis-socialized by their own parents and community that racism is rampant and, accordingly, they have the right to do anything they want. They tell their kids their struggles are not their fault so there is no reason to try harder. Some seem to think, when their kids have difficulties, becoming militant and acting out is a correct solution to every life struggle. Perhaps there needs to be a program where someone goes to the schools and speaks directly to the kids in their homeroom once a month. Sadly, I think some teachers have a bad attitude, as well, and reinforce destructive attitudes.
Very interesting, but I would really like The channel and Glenn to reach out to people like Joel Kotkin and his thoughts on a new feudalismn. Are what we see in black communities a precursor for the entire society. Thank you for great diskussions and other perspectives. 🤗🤗
I don't usually comment on these issues but Thomas Sowell has addressed these issues in his writings over the past forty years. His trilogy,Race and Culture, Conquest and Culture, Migration and Culture. One of his later books Discrimination and Disparities is his most recent take on these issues
I'm new here, but can someone please explain how Thomas Sowell and Heather McDonald differ in their thesis on these issues in the black community? I would really appreciate it if anyone answered. Thank you.
I struggle with this discussion because while I consider both of these extremely intelligent people to be inspiring, I am also struck by how they talk about Americans historically based solely on skin color and either exonerate or condemn them based on the same. While I completely agree that post emancipation America remained an unlevel playing field with many racist White Americans actively trying to oppress (and far worse) Black Americans and that we should never ignore that history, there were also Americans of all colors at that time attempting to stop that from happening and working actively for equality for all Americans. I believe that words matter and painting our history with a broad brush not reflective of its realities or nuances is rarely a good idea.
Families are not the key, loving relationships and encouragement are, a single parent who loves, cares and encourages is better than two parents who do not have the same relationship. as for drugs they should not be treated as criminal but medical
This self-responsible type of thinking must come from left to take hold in the black community. Owed to history, the word conservative is a complete turn-off, thusly, some of us on the left are trying to get this out from this polarity and tackle some of our victimology.
My husband and I had children, I gave birth to them. That birth was traumatic, painful, and exhausting. Was it hard for my husband to watch, oh likely in ways, but came NO where near how hard it was for me!! (can you hear me stomp my foot? hehe) Its not fair that it is so much harder for the mother to give birth than it is for the father to give birth, but it is reality. I dont say "that child isnt mine because it hurt me", and that child is not hurting me now that they are in their 20's and 30's. The fact that the pain is not ongoing, doesnt make it not exist. The pain was real and the emotional pain (and financial) continued through their childhood, getting easier and easier as the years went on. Black and White (and many others) gave birth to this country. That birth was traumatic, and painful, and exhausting. Was it hard for the White's, oh likely in ways, but came NO where near how hard it was for the Black people!! (they dont need to stomp their foot, it is plainly true). I don't think I need to continue the parallels, I believe you get the point. This OUR country, we gave birth to it together, fair or not, lets be happy we are where we are today.
@@paigemccormick6519 I would love for someone to do a survey testing level of happiness comparative to those who were and were not told "life is not fair" while they were growing up. We should all strive to do the best with what we have. Life is like a hand of cards, part of it is what you are dealt, but the rest is how you play it.
Only 1.4K likes after 6 months? The algorithms must be whack! I'm afraid, though, that it's really because a huge majority of people simply cannot absorb what these two thoughtful people have to say.
Was the 'panic' of the crack epidemic not the result of widespread gang violence... not the fact that the users were primarily black? The fact that this is ignored on an 'unorthdox' show by people who are vilified for supposedly being 'racist' shows what trouble we're in.
Glenn's incredible thoughts aside, I ALMOST most appreciate his willingness to let others speak, uninterupted, for 20 minutes. What a gift the man is to this nation.
What a wonderful dialogue between two great minds. Thank you to the both of you.
Both Glenn and Heather are two of the best defenders of reason, empiricism and common sense that we have fighting in the culture wars today.
Cheers to that. Very Enlightenment valued people
American heroes
Think about the divisiveness that current wokedom produces. Such friendships, mutual respect, willingness to explore the hard questions would otherwise not exist. We had roughly 40 years of this (1965-2005) before "better ideas" started turning it around. I have never been personally convinced that much, if not most of those 'better' ideas did not serve one purpose above all else. To cloak an underlying foundation of race hatred.
Which poses an interesting question: Is that something that just has to work its way through, in the natural order of things? My answer to that would be no, because there is far too much damage done along the way - and primarily toward the people supposedly being helped.
The measure of one's commitment to reason and common sense -- is what they do in the face of challenge when their own interests are at stake. Just like you're being challenged right now -- and as I challenged Loury last year:
*****************
Glenn Loury once called my writing “brilliant.” And when he opened my site last year, he was “blown away” and “signed up.” But when I challenged him on his hero, suddenly he wasn’t so keen on the truth.
Based on the claims in this community: You would consider that information on the merits - in a calm, cool, and collected manner. That means you don’t defend before you consider. It means you don’t fuss over tone and website style to deflect from the argument. It means you don't sling snippets of certitude and childish insults for a fix - you show up and act your age.
And just for kicks, try showing a modicum of courtesy for once - listening and learning for a change. And if you really wanna go for the gold, come with the willingness to be wrong. You'd be amazed by what you can see with such courage.
Glenn said that they had no argument against his “Rebuttal to Brown University’s letter on racism in the United States.”
Neither do you on your “National Treasure.”
Like Loury, you wanna confine Sowell’s record to a box of beliefs that suit you, and ignore anything that doesn’t. So the rules of argument you espouse on a daily basis don’t apply to you . . .
A lot of that goin’ around:
onevoicebecametwo.life/2021/12/07/behold-the-legacy-of-your-beloved-sowell-part-i/
@@mounteverestoftheobvious1182 Interesting take...I would say that what is the rule for the Left is the anomaly for the right.
Brilliant conversation as always. This channel should get a lot, a lot lot, more recognition than it currently gets.
So true! Still, it seems to be getting more and more attention.
Every time I listen to Glenn Loury speak I am more impressed with his wisdom, his honesty and his willingness to say things that many folks in his community simply do not want to hear coming from a black man. He could pick up the mantle from Thomas Sowell and I'd feel like we hadn't lost a step.
😄
Lousy stinks.
Sowell is laughable.
Sort yourself out.
@ondolite3789 you need to take your own advise. But mostly be proud of these two men who have such wisdom and common sense. They have walked the walk.
God bless Heather MacDonald. Her courage and intellect are absolutely invaluable in pulling our culture and civilization back from the brink
Yes, Prof. Loury the language you use always makes things clear. And it inspires me to communicate more clearly in all spheres of my existence. I hope you are with us for many, many more years.
Best of luck to you,
Carol lynn
I devour every piece that Heather writes and every interview she gives. She's my absolutely favorite political commentator.
PDesaulniers: I've been touting Heather MacDonald to my friends and any person who has the wherewithal to hear the truth about crime & the reasons for the breakdown of the family in America. She is a VICIOUS truth teller and she doesn't care who she tells it to!
Thanks to the two of you for your show and for your honesty and intelligence. Great work.
I love these two. We are lucky to have them.
Thank you so much Glenn. One of the best most wide ranging discussions I've ever heard. I will send this to my very liberal brother who will unfortunately probably refuse to watch it. Keep doing what you do and don't give up, America needs you!
One of the best discussions I have heard in a long time. Both of you are such great communicators and true intellectuals. I pray your wisdom finds its way to a large platform so more people can hear the truth you speak.
An important conversation that is very much needed, but few are willing to have. Thank you Glenn and Heather.
Heather is so right, Glenn. You are just such a fine, eloquent, thoughtful man. What a pleasure it must be to count oneself among your graduate students. Thank you for everything.
Glenn is correct. Don’t lower standards. College mismatch is a problem. We’ve known for 30 years about this.
Absolutely!!!
It’s actually really insulting and a lot white folks dont understand if blacks find white folks to blame for the issues generations ago why would they then look to the white forks and government who caused the problems for a solution?! It makes no sense logically.
There are FIVE times more white non tested students in college than affirmative action Blacks due to Legacy Admittance...... FACTS
If your name was Uncle Sam you would know Michelle Obama has attended many stop the Black on Black crime rallies...... But like Uncle Joe said YOU AIN'T BLACK......
Define “college mismatch”. To get into Ivy League schools, you MUST get accepted into it. You’re implying that the only people of color of women that go to Ivy League schools are all on sports scholarships.
33:25 Glenn's best insights are always through his rants. Also, more people need to speak honestly and openly about this colossal social problem that we aren't allowed to talk about.
Thank you for having Heather on. Perhaps you don't agree on everything with these debated topics, but it's great and also sadly rare to see such constructive conversations these days.
I used to be a hard-core leftist and I went to the BLM protests and Tweeted #BurnItDown. But because of pure luck, I found myself to be friends with a black American in a AirBnB during summer 2020 (with many individual rooms) and I noticed the "social justice warriors" treated him differently and didn't hang out with us and it was the conservative Trump supporters that stood had dinner, and a drink with us. That had a huge impact on me. Of course it's anecdotal, but as a minority myself, I have always felt more socially welcome and treated better by the so-called "racists" and I have felt slightly excluded from the "woke" (even when I was woke myself).
I get it. I was a leftie, too. Welcome to the smarter, better side.
My pal from seminary, black, a hybrid of conservative views on say abortion and homosexuality, but very "progressive" in terms of social "race" issues. EX: A white person is the only one who can be racist, because bigotry + power. He could not fathom my having voted for Trump the first time around, because he knew me to be level-headed, caring about people, and not a racist. But, he couldn't get his brain around "Trump", for anyone, let alone a Christian, to have voted for him. Then....years later he was honest with me in admitting that Orange Man did get HBCs funded. For 10 years. And that Obama never did that. So...maybe his gears were finally turning in terms of seeing things through varied lenses that were not, in fact, racist.
You aren't a leftist or conservative. You are a human
Same. A few years ago in my early twenties I was the same. Freaked out when Trump won, believed much of the media. Then I realised about 4 months into the Trump presidency that EVERY NIGHT it was about how bad Trump was and how stupid Conservatives are but the other side were not really like that . They seemed.. normal, kind, sensible. I looked around me and my lefty friends were nearly all angry and Toxic and hated everything about Western culture and it seemed they hated even each other and even themselves. After I stepped away and also after I saw several media lies one after the other, and how they baited various identity groups WITH these lies, I could never go back. I will never support a group as hateful and divisive and dishonest as I now realise the Woke side is. That's not to say I wouldn't support certain left wing policies IF I thought they'd be a higher net good but until they stop this hateful damaging agenda I'm well away.
I felt most guilty about the thoughts I had towards my Auntie who has been a Conservative for a long time and she would often say kind things about other groups and other races even if sometimes they weren't on her 'side' and I just always thought 'she's just saying that to appease me' but I realised , that's how alot of normal people, centrists, Conservatives, Libertarians and some moderate Liberals are.
I have to say as well, I'm absolutely STUNNED that John (McWorter) still votes Democrat. I just can't see how it's an option at the moment even if you have moderate left policies, the Conservatives ARENT a true solid right wing party anyway. Like people say 'They're just Demicrats driving the speed limit.' Not necessarily a good thing but it definitely makes me wonder - If they're basically the Democrats without the wokeness , toxicity and self loathing, surely at least until the Democrats have straightened themselves out , it has to be worth lending the more sensible party your vote for one or two cycles.
@@realMaverickBuckley John McWorter is biased. he is ignotant of facts that himself states. it's sad.
Two incredible speakers!!! The slower people speak, the more I trust them. I wish I had time to listen to it several times. Thank you!!!
This videos view count should be waaaaaaay up. Such an important conversation. Two of the best!
This. THIS. And I appreciate when you go off Glenn. Who should not become outraged with the crime situation today, and the absolute refusal to accept reality?
the vast majority of violent crime and gun crime in my city, Toronto, occurs within the Jamaican community, but no one, politicians, police officials, news media, talk radio pundits, can admit this fact for fear of being labelled a racist. The Jamaican community needs to address this issue head on, and stop blaming over policing.
AMEN
🙏
Correct. Politicians don’t care about violence or people dying and certainly not stopping it. They need it to bang the drum on each voting season
This is such a great show & gives me hope for our future. I live in Oakland & what is Im seeing on a daily basis is so disheartening. Thank you for sharing this gentlemen, I wish everyone in our country could watch this show & see how men who are intelligent, speak & act & converse. If you 3 were politicians, this country would be so much better off.
Glenn, keep doing and saying these truths. You're brilliant 👏. Don't give up! I grew up in the Jim Crow South and wouldn't take nothing for my journey.
AMEN HERE HERE.
Outstanding and rigorously honest discussion among two social commentators who prefer to leverage factual data and truthful discourse over frothy emotionalism.
Great video much greater message and meaning!!! This video is informative insightful and accurate these 2 academic scholars are data driven intellectuals are a pleasure to listen to I wish there were more venues like this one!!!
I love and follow Glenn Loury for a long time now. But this conversation got me a chance to meet Heather Mac Donald and I only can say "WOW!" Her class, eloquence, rigor and smile were completely awesome. Thank you both for such honest and spirited discussion we all have the distinct pleasure to be part of. Please carry on.
Hey! I saw her first!
😉
How did Heather become an expert on Black people? Where did she get her doctorate in Negrology from?
@@thomasreaves588 I wouldn't know. Have you googled it?
@@thomasreaves588 What's yours in, and, more to the point, who cares?
@thomasreaves588 you're suffering from a disease called "Chronic uniqueness"
👏👏👏👏 to Heather and Glenn! God bless you both!
Two of the greatest thinkers of our time. Please continue to help America and the world. BTW: Your hearts and humanity need the largest platforms available. If, not available, then please create them. I love people, all people..please carry on!
Thanks for/to both of you. I’ve never been much of a reader of books etc. However, in the last 20 years I have sought out knowledge by listening to great voices. I plan on using Audible to hear the words and thoughts of great people like the two of you.
Wow. Just yes. I love this dialog. This is OUR America 🇺🇸 and also including and acknowledging our history…
Probably Heather MacDonald's best appearance on the Glenn Show. Very worth watching.
She has also done a recent interview with Gad Saad.
Thank you both for your courage.
I love Glenn Heather and John too!!!!!
Heather is one of the smartest, concise and clear communicators around. She is grossly underrated
The foundation of black families has collapsed. And it is for white families,too. As a 20 year public health nurse I learned that. I evolved from a liberal to a conservative after visiting thousands of families and seeing how the lack of a father and the lack of a religious foundation was destroying our families and destroying our society.
Bingo, pay the girl....
@@George-vf7ss No, no. In societies with a traditional family, the husband is entitled to all the money the wife earns. If she's single, it should go to her Father. Women weren't allowed to own property, vote, or keep money they earned with their labor.
Jillayne Holter: If the woman taking care of the family was permitted to make the same money as a man and afford health insurance, they wouldn't have needed your services. As if when a man deserts his family that means they can't be religious afterward.
Conservative? You voted for tRUMP???? If so, please get off your soap box...
@@robinlillian9471 What a fictional narrative.
What a great discussion!!! 👏🏻
Congrats on the 100k Glenn, you deserve it and hoping 1M soon.
Great show Glenn. Lots of unflinching honesty.
The voice of Professor Loury has become a most unique and profound expression heard throughout this promised land. This heartbroken, confused, bewildered and shamed collection of identities. These various herds of partisan polarities searching for meaning and for answers that plumb the depths of humanity long before plunging into damned despair.
Those rants. And especially that proud cry of moral outrage - expressing what many feel and few will dare utter. We can understand and even forgive a nation in Africa blown apart by civil war, chaos, tyranny, political mayhem, economic meltdown and the end results of cultural fatalism. We can forgive such places for failing to protect their children and keep them safe.
But America? Practicing a kind of invisible phantom civil war deep within the understructure of its own failed communities, producing dozens of thousands of lives that did not matter. While whatever does matter prances a performance art for an adoring media and a bloodthirsty public appetite for the stuff. Look away and look back again, because it satisfies some kind of lust born deep within whatever dances with the fetish.
These are sacrifices. No less than what the Aztecs flung screaming off the pyramid heights of temples built to the gods of wonder. It's just that this religion being practiced is not sure what kind of deity is being served.
Apparently it has become as impure as original sin to object. To disagree. To even notice and criticize.
I can spend five minutes contemplating the sound of that voice. I can spend those same five minutes contemplating what that sound might mean within an inner circle, a social circle, a familial circle, whose intimacy and established respect and yes, even love itself produces who knows just what can make how much of a difference? To a fatherless child.
While we know that the vast majority of young black male black lives busy extinguishing other black lives never have known such a thing. As if it didn't matter. As if THAT is a thing that does not matter.
Well then, how is it that their lives can matter so very much? When it matters just how we "contextualize" the damned thing? When it matters so very much how we politicize the thing, polarize the thing, wokify the thing, sift and sort out the thing, prod and poke and tamp down the thing into something that - becomes only useful somehow to throw back in whitey's face?
For instance.
I don't pretend to feel that shame. I don't pretend to feel that pain. I cannot possibly shed my skin, my roots, my history, my experience in life.
But I can imagine. Simple acts of the heart have taught me how to do that.
One might think that howl of outrage would wake up Liberty herself, cause her to look around behind her back, see what's going on. As if it requires such a miracle as that to make a nation notice.
Whoa! Heather came on with such a forceful acknowledgement of America's undeniable and deplorable history of racism that I think it caught Glenn off guard. He kind of leaned back, and with a confused look in his eyes, I half expected him to say "WHO ARE YOU??? And what have you done with Heather MacDonald??"
Ha! I thought the same thing too ….I was a bit floored myself, frankly….
More excellence from Glenn and guest
Asian man, grew up watching Full House, TGIF. Grandpa was a war hero and leader; had a stern hand but was respectful and rational. My role models were Danny Tanner, Uncle Jessie, Joey, and Carl Winslow. This helped to establish a strong sense of right and wrong. Contributes to who I am today.
The role models today are Snoop Dogg, gang members, voilence, thugs, drug dealers, alcoholics, etc and it's all celebrated in today's lifestyle.
Dork lol jk I remember it too
Great presentation, thank you!
Confuscious - An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger.
A Superior Man Treats People With Benevolence and Respect
Excellent. Thank you Glenn and Heather.
Dr. Loury, I have to agree with Ms. MacDonald, we don't deserve you. But I am so glad we have you, sir.
Glenn Loury & Heather Mac Donald: this can only be great!!!
Impressive, instructive and helpful. Thank you.
I love your opening music. Takes me back to a time and place I'm always sentimental for.
Joy reed has never used her platform to help black children-ever
She is profiting off of stoking racial division, nothing more.
@@regpharvey
She’s not a sweet potato pie red blooded black American…she’s a 1st generation immigrant.
Women like her only help other women like her.
@@regpharvey "Wokeism" primarily benefjts them. Dark-skinned black women are the only people you can't hold accountable under wokeism. They're black, dark, and women. They are playing "victim" as they rise all the way to the top.
@@regpharvey Women like her are leading these DEI exercises in corporations and pushing identity politics.
Lowering standards doesn't bring anyone up. It just lowers the bar and possibly hides performance gaps, but doesn't resolve them.
Just discovered you had this podcast. Got some videos to watch!!!
Thank you Professor Loury. Your voice is so important and gratefully recieved. I really do feel that we're on a precipice and we need based intelligent sensible people like yourself to continue speaking and converting those with the temporary Insanity of Wokeness. Because if we don't pull ourselves together, in 15 years we won't have the privelege of debating pronouns and making token gestures whilst ignoring real issues because I can assure people of one thing, China, an Authoritarian country on track to be twice as powerful and wealthy as America by 2032, is not doing the same.
Oh and of course, a HUGE thank you to Heather, another light in the darkness. Thank you !
Conservative all the way!!!
Best regards from Lima -Perú
Glenn, you're on it! Keep saying it!!
Two of my favorite public intellectuals...
Much better interview than with John McWhorter, though he's right on certain things...
You are bravely stating the obvious -- that which is most in need of statement.
Tolerance or Payback? What does anger breed? Anger in response. And the desire to get away.
As a Minnesotan that lived through that time, it was all about the politics. The mayor of Minneapolis told the cops to let them but down the precinct. The mayor of St. Paul said that is not happing here. We are all for peaceful protest, but you should not be allowed to burn it all down. At the time my friend in the national guard, they had to accompany firetrucks because they were being attached.
Great conversation
That quote from Guialli really hit hard. As she said it I flashed back to my 72 years of life I can see I am where I am not bc I learned about my blackness but because I step out waaaay outside the community norms. If I had stayed in my lane my life not have been nearly as rich and fufilling
Great guest and conversation.
Heather is no nonsense facts all the way.🎉
The reaction to phantom racism in the fullness of time will yield actual racism.
"Which black lives matter?"
Well, what first needs to be answered: *_is this an election year?_*
Right?
After seeing the polarization during the “pandemic” - people should not be surprised to learn of how humans can be cruel to each other - on many/any occasions for any reason
The pandemic didn't cause that. The democrats empowered and allowed that violence and crime that created the animosity to happen for a reason.
They use songs as a memory device. Over time songs were developed for different destinations.
The book "A Song For Satawal" by Kenneth Browser covers this quite nicely. There were songs for other things such as making a canoe. These songs were thought from an early age and often repeated through life.
In making a canoe the old men would stand on one side the boys on the other. The men doing the work would be in the middle doing the work to the instructions of the song. Even without writing there are many ways to accurately remember things.
This interview is good brain food. Thank you. Does anyone know if heather Mac Donald has ever had a online discussion with Amy wax. I’d be interested to see it.
You're both awesome. Just saying
Always good...
46:17 Heather: Giuliani was one of America’s greatest mayors ---
And she sites many examples of a time when Giuliani was inspirational. However....
51:30 Glen replies, "Good to hear and good to know because his legacy is going to be forever tarnished by the role he played in the 2020 election." (Heather nods in agreement)
Good example of the boomer class needing to retire at a certain point.
A major issue is the boomer class refusing to give up power and to step back as they clearly become so invalid they cannot speak coherently let alone perform their duties.
No one will ever convince me a 72 or 80 year old mayor or judge is as competent as a 45 or 52 year old one
I hope she's an inspirational figure for the black community 50 years from now....a white academic woman who refused to infantalize the black community....someone who gave them dignity and respect by demanding they be held to the standards of the social contract as opposed to being a modern progressive who treats the standards as the problem.
Respect, mad respect to Glenn, stating he was addicted to crack.
These two are true heroes.
Problem from the beginning. Some Blacks don't see oppression because they accept it as normal. Dr Loury grew up in Chicago Illinois. One of most racist cities in America. The oppression doesn't apply to me is so sad. Would like Dr Loury take road trip through some Sundown Towns in America.
Speaking of the tragedy of violence from the black community, I am glad that someone has addressed violence against 'privileged' minorities such as East and South Asians, and those from the Middle East and North Africa.
How curious that the various mechanisms ostensibly trotted out to benefit blacks - lowering educational standards, non-enforcement of laws, etc - do more harm to black people than anyone else. At some point, it becomes legitimate to ask if harm is not the point. Foreseeable consequences are never accidental, so when a proposal increases crime, the most logical conclusion is that the increase was the goal.
Terrible thought. But I admit I wonder sometimes if the current crime rates are sustainable.
Fucking hell finally, an intellectual conservative. I have been searching high and low for someone like this for years. Academia needs more right leaning people like this.
You haven't been looking very hard. Have you never heard Ben Carson speak? There are so many others like him also.
1:07:20 The security footage shows who is assaulting the elderly Asian - Americans in NYC and San Francisco.
I respectfully disagree with the two of you, over George Floyd. I do admire both of you and I enjoy your shows.
Floyd was a fool
Not to put too fine a point on it, but "out of wedlock" isn't the issue, it's "out of stable relationship." Lot's of the kids these days aren't interested in marriage, but they absolutely are interested in a stable relationship. Just sayin...
It's deeper than that. It's not just about the thing itself, it's about how the whole of the society and culture behaves. The standards that it sets and the expectations. The absence of marriage allows the rot to set in across the board.
You know as well as I do that marriage is leagues above a live in girlfriend/boyfriend in commitment and what used to be the social recognition of a condoned relationship that is why it's loss is so destabilizing.
20:00 - Ok, but let's not pretend that Relative Poverty isn't an underlying cause for many factors related to "crimes of poverty".
Lots of other races who live in extreme poverty don't go spray bullets everywhere. I know tons of very poor Asians, and that never crosses their mind.
Blacks who hold on to the oppression and wrongs committed against us Americans of African Decent in our country's past, it always reminds me of the man or woman who gets into a new relationship with someone that is completely supportive and beneficial to their existence, but decides to fight a battle that should have been waged against the partner by whom they'd been wronged, I'm deeply both irritated and saddened. For I say, "When the promised land is found, let go of the animosity held towards the desert you've left and live happily like a man or woman who now has access to the peace and freedoms our forefathers prayed for. Yes, racism and hate will always exist. Because truth be told, Mankind will never be rid of ignorance. But only a fool lives in a castle and is determined to sleep naked on the cold floor. We American People of African Decent must recognize what present America has to offer, and let that BS of the past fall by the wayside! Otherwise, we'll be nothing more than psychological PRISONERS that walk Chain-Free!
The people who swoop in and accuse Glen of being a sellout, U. Tom, etc...never prove with evidence where and how he's wrong. They attack ad hominem...and then run off.
You always need to consider a source. If the source has no value then the voice has no value.
I hate that shit. Any black man in America can do whatever he wants he is not bound by his blackness to only do "black" things. That whole premise is a mind virus that is designed to keep black people in a spot that people who don't care about them and want to put and keep them in that spot. If a black person does figure skating that's a black thing to do because they are a black person doing that. Every person of every race is an individual first and composed of much more than just the color of their skin. We have all forgotten that it seems.
Does anyone know if the public can attend discussions at the Manhattan Institute?
My heart breaks. These are voices in the desert crying aloud.
Wait what's Heather's qualifications thought besides "journalist and social commentator"?
You two are great. Someone needs to find a way to speak no nonsense realities, such as these, directly to the black parents (most often mothers) and the children by the time they are in middle school. It's my belief, that the mothers have been mis-socialized by their own parents and community that racism is rampant and, accordingly, they have the right to do anything they want. They tell their kids their struggles are not their fault so there is no reason to try harder. Some seem to think, when their kids have difficulties, becoming militant and acting out is a correct solution to every life struggle.
Perhaps there needs to be a program where someone goes to the schools and speaks directly to the kids in their homeroom once a month. Sadly, I think some teachers have a bad attitude, as well, and reinforce destructive attitudes.
How telling it is that this important video has so few views.
Very interesting, but I would really like The channel and Glenn to reach out to people like Joel Kotkin and his thoughts on a new feudalismn. Are what we see in black communities a precursor for the entire society. Thank you for great diskussions and other perspectives. 🤗🤗
It's the same old feudalism
I don't usually comment on these issues but Thomas Sowell has addressed these issues in his writings over the past forty years. His trilogy,Race and Culture, Conquest and Culture, Migration and Culture. One of his later books Discrimination and Disparities is his most recent take on these issues
I'm happy for Mr Sowell but these people's opinions are just as valid. Sowell isn't the only person studying and writing about this stuff.
The media and establishment has canceled sowell. It's a shame, he is brilliant
I'm new here, but can someone please explain how Thomas Sowell and Heather McDonald differ in their thesis on these issues in the black community? I would really appreciate it if anyone answered.
Thank you.
I struggle with this discussion because while I consider both of these extremely intelligent people to be inspiring, I am also struck by how they talk about Americans historically based solely on skin color and either exonerate or condemn them based on the same. While I completely agree that post emancipation America remained an unlevel playing field with many racist White Americans actively trying to oppress (and far worse) Black Americans and that we should never ignore that history, there were also Americans of all colors at that time attempting to stop that from happening and working actively for equality for all Americans. I believe that words matter and painting our history with a broad brush not reflective of its realities or nuances is rarely a good idea.
Love heather macD-she was right about not trusting Eric adams ,,,,, said it on tucker
Families are not the key, loving relationships and encouragement are, a single parent who loves, cares and encourages is better than two parents who do not have the same relationship. as for drugs they should not be treated as criminal but medical
This self-responsible type of thinking must come from left to take hold in the black community. Owed to history, the word conservative is a complete turn-off, thusly, some of us on the left are trying to get this out from this polarity and tackle some of our victimology.
My husband and I had children, I gave birth to them. That birth was traumatic, painful, and exhausting. Was it hard for my husband to watch, oh likely in ways, but came NO where near how hard it was for me!! (can you hear me stomp my foot? hehe) Its not fair that it is so much harder for the mother to give birth than it is for the father to give birth, but it is reality. I dont say "that child isnt mine because it hurt me", and that child is not hurting me now that they are in their 20's and 30's. The fact that the pain is not ongoing, doesnt make it not exist. The pain was real and the emotional pain (and financial) continued through their childhood, getting easier and easier as the years went on. Black and White (and many others) gave birth to this country. That birth was traumatic, and painful, and exhausting. Was it hard for the White's, oh likely in ways, but came NO where near how hard it was for the Black people!! (they dont need to stomp their foot, it is plainly true). I don't think I need to continue the parallels, I believe you get the point. This OUR country, we gave birth to it together, fair or not, lets be happy we are where we are today.
I like your conclusion! I also know that on the individual level, black and non-black people have had lives plagued with horror and insecurity.
@@paigemccormick6519 I would love for someone to do a survey testing level of happiness comparative to those who were and were not told "life is not fair" while they were growing up. We should all strive to do the best with what we have. Life is like a hand of cards, part of it is what you are dealt, but the rest is how you play it.
Great analogy.
That is a truly fantastic analogy.
Only 1.4K likes after 6 months? The algorithms must be whack! I'm afraid, though, that it's really because a huge majority of people simply cannot absorb what these two thoughtful people have to say.
Was the 'panic' of the crack epidemic not the result of widespread gang violence... not the fact that the users were primarily black?
The fact that this is ignored on an 'unorthdox' show by people who are vilified for supposedly being 'racist' shows what trouble we're in.
We must have high-standards!
Please post your reading list Heather Mac Donald.