DYNO WITH A KNOBBY VS STREET TIRE RESULTS 2006 SUZUKI RM250 2 STROKE
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The 04-08 RM250's are the best 250 2 strokes ever made. Razor sharp handling, narrow feeling bike, planted, and a very stout engine with instant throttle response. I wish I had those yellow/gold rims on my 04 they are so sick!
Yep miss the days Suzuki ruled the game :(
Nobody should've been RUDE about things ! Kaplan are bunch good guys.
I think I’m most amazed that the computer is still running Windows XP. Same era as the bike haha
Best version ever made
Easy now man. It serves its purpose.
@@Davido50 I’m not talking down on XP. It was the best Windows software ever. Just amazed that someone is still using it daily!
@@DStabs720 windows 98 and windows XP are still used today in all industry as it is more reliable not to get corrupted used on dynos and in the machining industry like all cnc mills and lathe equipment ...also all the programming of your ECU of motorcycles and cars today
I love this channel for the love of 80s and 90s 2 strokes! Respect from the UK brother 👊
Same here ,another UK viewer. Cheers 👍
🇬🇧
God bless back to ya from Ohio 🇺🇸.
That's a stand up guy right there. His exact words were "I stand corrected". Takes a real man to say that. Much love from Pennsylvania. Keep the bikes alive!!
Good on ya for showing this, it takes a real mad to admit when they don’t know or made a mistake!
100% agree. Ken is a man’s man Old school honest stand up guy.
Very interesting....knobs bending, contact patch, tire weight, the slick makes sense. Cheers ken!
plus spaces between knobs.. I bet the tire spins out on the dyno just from knob flex
Yes sir they all do!
Wow that was a nice gain, dyno tuning is cool, can't wait to see what the 500's do
Knobbies just spin a bit on dynos and are deceptive.
-Everything Ken and them did was awesome! Great content! So to crazy haters, a street tire just gets more of the power that was always there to the dyno.
I cant wait for more of your bikes to hit this dyno. However the setup is!
Merica!
Guys, the motor makes the same power regardless of tire. The difference is the measuring the power. Knobies do not grip the dyno at higher RPM. The street tires remain hooked up. Motor still makes the same power. Did not "pick up" anything. Just the measuring was more accurate.
not a loss of grip rather drag caused by the uneven surface created by those knobs against the smooth dyno wheel
It’s not traction it’s rolling resistance
great job Kaplan ! no one has ever took the time to show us just how important it is to have total traction on a dyno drum ...and the difference between 31 horsepower and 39 horsepower on single cylinder dirt bikes is HUGE ... watch the you tube videos of the 700 maico on a dyno with a knob tire and they still got around 90 horsepower ! ill bet you could show them a thing or two couldn't you ????? hehehe hehaw
You can't beat the excitement of riding knobblies on the road though. Great fun flat out on my klx450 on the road
I have an 05 RM250. I have run the fatty and powercore and the Pro Curcuit works and 304 factory. To me the Pro curcuit feels like you get more everywhere.
Hi Ken en Jeff, thanks for reading the comments and taking the effort to validate stuff, good to know that the decent comments got you motivated to check this nobby/street tire difference out. I do want to comment that I miss the part where you connect the dots, like the influence of grip/weight/diameter/pressure and feel like you claim the bike has gained power. If you feel like posting another one on this topic (which i hope) please elaborate on these topics. A question I have is, how accurate did you guys setup the dyno parameters based on the nobby diameter and the street tire diameter and was the sprocket gearing compensated for this diameter difference? In other words, i think there is a significant difference now in the ratio between 1 crank revolution vs the amount of distance traveled on the outer diamater of the rear wheel, which also impacts the leverage between crank and rear wheel like others commented, if you try to keep the leverage and wheel weight the same, you will be able to use the street tire setup to get the plot of power vs speed as if you were using the nobby tire (the nobby will let the bike perform the same but lacks grip on the dyno). Sorry it became such a long comment. Cant wait for the 500cc bikes to be on the dyno.
That's very interesting. I can't wait to see a 500 strapped onto the dyno. Please run the 500 with both a knobby & a street tyre
RM all the way.
Great job fellas!!!
As always.
Told ya so contact patch is sooo important. Good on ya Senior
Hope u weren't rude about it.
Awesome horsepower from the old Suzuki.
She’s not old, She’s not even 18 yet!
Hello, I also have an RM250 with FmF gnarly front pipe and shorty, Vforce 3 reeds and a Vertex single ring piston, I would be really interested to see what BHP its making :)
Great work guys, love your passion 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Everyone on the internet is an expert .....
Now I know how much hp's my dirtbike has ! Thankx ! :)
@@billallen4793 POW MIA
Hi Ken! All good i hope :). I always use the same tire on all bikes. One thing is also important to take into account: Soft tires, like cut slick types and Supermoto rain tires robs a lot of power. I had a tranny loss of 10 hp between a street legal sm "slick" tire and a regular hard strret bike tire so ther tire you have there is probably good. I had some problems with grip on the 550 though. We had to use glue😄.
Have a good day!
Johnny.
The pipe be just smokin
The bike is making similar horse power as before, it's just getting a more accurate read through the street tire.
Yes,. Aiir pressure, tire width all will affect the results.
The difference between a knobby & street tire will be even more with more power.
Thanks for the vid & showing the difference.
Iconic bike
So basically what we're learning here is if we put drag slicks on are dirt bikes will have a lot more power I like that idea. Might have a little problem in the hill climbs. LOL.
are you trying to get traction on a round cylinder or a steep dirt hill? this shouldn't be hard to figure out
changing the tire didn't give the bike any more power it gave the dyno more accurate info
Oh what do you do for a living? I hold stuff wide open🤟👊
nice pick up for sure
Told ya kap on the last video 😉
Can't wait for 500cc big bore dyno shoot out
Ken, I’m thinking the street tire has a stickier compound and grips the drum better than the off road tire. I have a 2004 RM250, I wonder what my horsepower is. It feels like a beast. It’s the 2nd most powerful bike that I have owned. 1987 CR500 ranks #1.
I got a yz250 bored to a 325 I would whoop ur Honda
Yeah dudes! The only thing to try and match is the tire weight. It's unsprung mass that the crank has to overcome to put power to the ground.. so it will effect the results. Even Peter Griffen would agree that most dynos are using acceleration data to build a graph
Be curious to see the weight differences between the knobby tire and the street tire ! Weight differences gotta be a factor too on the dyno results !,
I wonder how much of the tire rolling diameter comes into play here too. Thanks Kaplan America for fantastic videos!
Bingo!!!!! We have winner. Tell Jeff what this guy said and see if it registers with him.
Zero effect, as dyno reads out speed, not gearing, if you did dyno pulls in 4th or 5th gear, results will be the same.
The force exertet on the roller will be smaller with a bigger tire, but speed will be greater (multiplying factor).
Radial street tires dont suck up a bunch of power like a bias ply knobby would. The street tire is also smaller in diameter hence why it gained higher mph faster. Speed is relative! Sounded like it was slipping slightly next time use some vht or hair spray to get the tire good and sticky so it doesn't slip on the drum. Its what we do with race cars on the chassis dyno.
Tires make a ton of difference when dyno'n. Car's rule of thumb you don't dyno with a slick. You'd get lower numbers because the soft Sidewall absorbing power before transferring it to the tread then the drum. So instances you can't put a radial tire on your car so you just take what you get if you are chassis dynoing
I bet if you cut thr front fender off her you'd gain 6 or 9 hp.
I got perrelli street tires on my 88cc big bore crf50 and it makes a big difference in speed and handling
My 02 Rm250 is a real handful power wise and I am glad to see the corrected results from the tire change. I knew the numbers from the other video didn’t seem right compared to my butt dyno.
I remember Dirtbike magazine had a article in the late 80''s 90's about running the CR 500 on a race track 1/4 mile using street tires it Went 98 Mph , with the knobbies it barley hit 75 , that's why Super Moto became a thing, flat track Oval was using cut tires ,
Will you guy's get a chance to do some of the old 465's through to the 500's. It would be interesting to see what number's they make.👍
Keep up the great work
Yes
Manic Mechanic is a wealth of knowledge. Beautiful RM. It's a shame that around 20 people, on this post, as you said, made assenine comments to the post, that you had to delete. Nothing but jealousy, insecurity, and misery, not wanting to see other people happy. Misery loves company. I choose not to engage these days.
Awesome 😎
just so everyone knows changing the knobby to a street tire doesn't do anything to the engines hp it give the Dyno different info
More accurate info from the dyno due to the increased traction
HOLY SMOKY RM
Nice , I find they make more if you open throttle slowly. Whiskey throttle makes a carberated engine bog.
No tire slippage
LESS TIRE SLIPPAGE....
A street tire may get more accurate results of total HP/T, but if the knobby gives consistent test results wouldn't that be a better representation of usable HP with a dirt bike?
I guess I'm thinking that total HP doesn't matter if you can't use it, and dirt bikes don't hook up in dirt with knobbies like they do with street tires on the road.
Haters are going to hate, but if the knobby results are consistent then to me, they are not useless.
Also I doubt anyone of true stature gave you those bad comments. Thanks for video!
❤ Yellow's Suzuki
Bike is so godamn clean
Testing is good. Who cares , dirt bikes ride in dirt. W. Knobby tires. Your good Ken we learned something too.
doc who cares if your dirt bike is putting out the proper amount of power ...so who cares if the engine is tuned right ..or if it leans out and locks up ..or runs two rich and doesnt win ..its just a junk dirt bike to you right ?
@@donniebaker5984 oh boy someone read into that a little to far. Sorry , maybe you need to slow ya roll. I did say we learned something. I don’t race but. Do take care of my equipment. Have a better day life’s too short for this petty stuff. ..
Now different tires produce different readings. Tire pressure s too... Put a R compound,watch it drop
Thats why I got a nice sticky street tire for dyno tests.
He mentioned in the previous video that he did the pulls in 5th gear which would be a overdrive, arent you supposed to dyno as close to 1:1 ratio as possible? 4th gear is usually 1:1
It's having the least amount of unsprung weight; you see higher hp numbers with bald tires mostly because they are lighter.
I'd like to see some kind of dirtbike hub dyno set up. This is plenty good enough for me though!😄
It seems like sprocket sizes will also affect power readings on the dyno. If you have one bike with final drive ratio of 6:1 and another with 6.5:1, the 6.5:1 has more "leverage" on the drum just from the gearing.
Badass banana. Put the CRs on the dyno!!
Zooks rock! Want a new RMZ450.
@@Davido50we love them all! my 03'Rm125 was Amazing and I wish I kept it.
@@Davido50 Rm125 Rm250 01 and up have handling like no other.
@@derailleurmind0454 Yes! The new RMZ racing 4- strokes are just as awesome.
Those fumes, yes please .
Over 15% more!
I still feel like its slipping just a tad bit but idk mabye its just me , ive seen people lower the pressure a tad or spray a sticky compound on the tire to limit slip
Good ideas!
Jeff didn’t answer really any of your questions 😂 he seamed lost a bit.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I know the type cause I am one of them. He's not answering cause he's lost, it's because hes analizing the question and thinking of all possible answers that best answers the question. This method takes time to spit out an answer and people think well you just don't know. Thats not true at all.
@@mikeyspeeds1056 rrriiigghhttttt #drevil
@@mikeyspeeds1056 thanks mike that is definitely me my wife use to give me shit for taking to long to answer a question but you know there are a lot people that think they know everything
Easy now he did ok.
Kaplan it is known that widows 98 and widows XP are the best operating systems ever in industry and all industrial equipment used in all machining as they are not subject to being corrupted ! just saying for all those commenters making fun of your dyno running windows XP . as they don't have a clue at all why ! I have been through computer programming through the I.B.E.W. apprenticeship ship program and have been told the best way to keep your new computers safe from ever becoming infested with corruption and viruses is to never plug them into the internet ! hehe all programming of automotive computers like the ECU and industrial CPU like cnc machining computers all run windows 98 or windows XP still today period .. so don't let any of these yawho know it alls try and tell you what to do as they don't have a clue ! your dyno-jet brand dyno is as you know is the world standard for gauging horsepower ! something that most of your millennial viewers cant understand .. and probably never will ..... you are on top of it all now Kaplan , by chance or not , you have already displayed the fact ! glad to see there is someone besides myself who is obsessed with perfection of the sport and promotion ! keep up laying out the facts we love it !
Ken can you put a rm125 on that dyno please ? I'm building the one I sent U pics of n now building another rm125 for a chick I know but interested in claimed power versus real dyno run by your guys ! I know it's rite that way n the buck stops there ? Thanks guys n 125s are becoming really popular amongst us old fellas n gals so let's get sum on screen !
All hail king kaplan
It will be more interesting if we can see what YZ 250 and KX 250 are capable of ..........as well ........CR 500, KX 500......
those numbers again mean nothing if you are just going to slap a knobby on and go racing in the dirt
Seem abit soft 45hp from a good 250 sounds right to me
Dumbest thing Suzuki ever did was discontinue the RM250. I'm rebuilding a 03 RM250 right now.
wonder how many bikes melt down on the dyno lol
Max rpm on full throttle ?
What abiout tire diameters that changes gearing a lot
Tire weight would affect numbers too...
Ahmazin.....
Is that why they only allow a 250 2stroke to compete with the 450s , 5 horsepower isn't much on paper but the top five guys on 450s are probably closer to 54 horsepower, they should let the 300 2stroke compete, that would be more fair I would think
I just read a bunch of the replies here and all I can say is...................There's a bunch of people that have commented on this subject that failed basic physics class in high school.
Hope you’ve got some creative thinkers around
So the next task is find out what brand/dimension of motocross tire makes the most HP?
Nah that's for a tire company. They are content! Rock on. Suzuki RM/RMZ #1
450 only makes a couple of pnds more torque. It's just much broader curve. More linear. That's what makes then so much faster the ability to makes traction and foward momentum. That and rpm! More rpm lol. The 2 stroke kinda unloads it all at once. More power pound for pound its just not as useable
I was wondering how much horsepower my rm250 has and if you google a stock a rm250 horsepower you get 54.8 from a stock bike why is the 2006 rm only pushing 40 with a street tire?
It's being measured at the wheel and not at the crank big difference. There is around a 10% loss through the drive chain.
I would like to know if the weight of the tire changes the dyno numbers.
For these dyno runs you want the heaviest person on the shop sitting on it. =Saves time from swapping tires on and off. =This bike still has another hidden 2-3 HP on this dyno. A stickier motard or slick tire may help and you could use GP like tire warmers.
That bikes putting out more hp at the crank than the wheel and gearing is another factor
gearing will not change the hp only mph
@@jeffcastine2494 actually jeff it will change both hp and tq try it i wouldnt shit my favorite turd
please post dyno runs from your dyno showing gearing changes making more hp turd boy
@@jeffcastine2494 lol sorry i dont have someone elses( kens )dyno to flex 🤣
@@2stroketime348 its my dyno dip shit
this rm 250 puts 41 on the wheel normaly!try with jetting!nice videos!
Also no blower on the radiators...come on thats not 5th pullin
Makes sense i guess.
250 2t make a bit more power than that im not sure why they didnt here. ive seen a yz250 make 44whp and nothing was done to it. ive seen a ktm 250sx make 47whp. but ive also seen a new 250sx make like 34whp too so im not sure what thats about lol. new fuel injected 4t make 50, 50+whp sometimes its insane. the nice 250s are close but 450s still make a tad more. 2 stroke all the way though.
Dyno the 4 strokes today
I was 1 who suggested a road or slick tyre but I wasn't derogatory or sarcastic about it, your guys arnt stupid and obviously know their shit and with that I bid you goodnight😊👍
Every dyno is somewhat different. It is an excellent tool for tuning but you get different numbers from dyno to dyno.
😁👍
Its all bout the diameter of the tire!!.. Sure slipping is a consideration and rolling resistance..
Terry put on your thinking cap ...its not all about just the diameter of the tire but it is all about the fact there is a considerable amount of space between the knobs on those aggressive Hoosier knobby tires that don't touch the roller of the dino at all simply because the roller is made out of steel and the tires are not hard enough to dig in like they will on dirt. So don't get think there's a hell of a lot more contact with a street tire that's pretty smooth with a lot of rubber wishtrend not very far apart. And I give a comment to Ken saying it wanted to get a road race like this and really sticky and spray some compound on there or if you can so they're probably be a good 99% contact all the time and you'll probably see another horsepower that what we're seeing here today is a 5 horsepower increase that's a fair amount
donnie baker it was on thats why i said slippage is consideration. With half the contact of the knob, you would need a lot more down pressure to keep it from slipping. Hens the rolling resistance factor as well..
In the end, its radius to dyno wheel, rolling resistance, and possible slippage..
Im surprised the street tire pulled 5hp
i always thought these 250s have like 47hp rear wheel
where did you get that graphics kit ?
He says its ricky carmichael edition👍
Knobby prob just losing traction when it reached full power
👍👍
Hey Ken what gear do you guys run on the Dyno? Is 4th 1:1 on most bikes?
Yes and yes
Thank you for testing that bike with the correct tire for a dyno. Another way to kill a 2 stroke is to let it coast down on a dyno with no throttle. Sir, I know he claims to be a dyno expert but please teach him that you cannot engine break a 2 stroke. It's bad for the cylinder. As an engine builder it's hard to watch. That bike is not a 4 stroke.
Why,no fuel in or not enough fuel/oil?
I rode 2 stroke race bikes on the road my entire childhood and always engine braked down hills and shit never had a problem.
a two stroke can run away on decell on a dyno you are correct if you listen i was using the dyno brake so that didn't happen probably could of hit it a little quicker but thanks
You guys should focus on the torqu numbers on a 250. My 105cc CR85 puts down 25-30whp, but prob only 12-15ft.lb torque. The 250's probably make as much HP as torque thats whats amazing to me!
Pit Jr's 89 on the dyno
Microphone on a dyno technician please