Travis Brown and
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2023
- I was in LA with Peter Boghossian recently, and I asked him to do some spectrum street epistemology with me about the idea that Wokeness will disappear in six months. I heard him say something like that on a podcast a while ago, so I thought I'd challenge it. What unfolded was an interesting conversation.
Let me know what you think below.
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There's not a hope in hell that woke will disappear in "6 months". This is almost a more crazy idea than Woke itself! and that's saying something. The reason i would have given is that the underlying financial & social incentive structure built up around it is now endemic & crucial too many people. What goes viral on TikTok? What generates most clicks? What the hell would those people do to replace it? Woke is the Sports of politics. You have teams which you support in a perpetual battle. Better still, everyone has to take part by default. Unlike football teams, you don't get to choose as you're already assigned to some of it's groupings. It's almost like they took inspiration from Hogwarts, and no, that's not a joke, I actually think the reach of those books really set up young minds for this idea to some extent.
iI digress though. Automation is another reason. As jobs dry up in the "real economy" but those who have the skills to be of use in a more and more automated world stay limited, "bullshit jobs" will increase as that's the only "work" people will be able to do. Woke is an "personal service" type job. So like a hairdresser or priest. Think, councillors, therapists, opinion journalists, influencers, fashion, These are intimate & personal, so resistant to automation, but also, comparatively low skilled (think gender studies degree) Especially for women, these jobs are very suitable & interesting. As is the social standing they bring.
What else would all these people do? There is an economic and social "inertia" to overcome that I can't see being overcome. It's embedded in the fabric of language now too.
If anyone thinks that's all going away in 6 months, they're off their heads because the imperative for something that can generate that much attention and therefore economic value, doesn't exist.
I simply don't know what will end woke due to all these incentives and forcing functions. It seems to be so well crafted to do it's job, and of course you'd expect that as algorithms, social media, and even the invisible hard of free market economics have been it's evolutionary engine, and a damn efficient one they are too.
Grievance is good for business. Culture wars are good for control of populations. Woke is like scientology done right. Do not underestimate it. Especially to very social young people who want nothing more than acceptance of their peers and distance from their parents ideas.
I give it a generation at least. Religions have lasted millennia after all, and this is that but masquerading as "science" and cool and without the implicit God figure.
Wokeness in disrepute in 6 months? That's a wild-eyed optimistic statement! People has spend decades convincing themselves of unbelievable things. That will not go away in just a few years. More over, there is a HUGE industry built on the woke ideology.
I think we're underestimating the degree to which liberal values are still part of the western psyche. While wokeness has been developed over decades, I still think liberalism is much more deeply rooted. I think it is so deeply rooted that most people have taken it for granted and that is part of the reason wokeness has been able to gain so much influence. But as people wake up and become more comfortable pushing back the wave will be much much larger than we are anticipating.
Yes but the truth always wins in the end. You can’t fuck with the truth. And often times when it does win, it’s a fairly sudden collapse of the existing structure of lies. And that’s because that structure, having been built as one preposterous falsehood on top of another, is a house of cards with no foundation.
Also, the suggestion is not that all woke people will suddenly stop being woke in six months. It’s whether wokeness as a concept will fall into ill repute among society in general. And Peter is right-that has already started to happen. The average person already finds most of this stuff ridiculous. They just don’t all have the courage yet to say it out loud. But that courage is growing, and once it reaches critical mass the whole thing will collapse. This is the moral of the story in The Emperor’s New Clothes.
The majority already do not believe it. But they are crowded out by the loud people. I think it will continually lose ground and become much more easy to ridicule an attack. I agree with you though, it won't be a wholesale victory that quickly.
It’s in disrepute now. He never said totally wiped out in 6 months.
@@therainman7777 The emperor hasn't had clothes for a long time. 😂. True that he didn't say the the woke would wake up. But I think he is way too optimistic. Before the COVID enlightening I would have said it would all collapse in a matter of months too. If there is anything I learned from the past 4 years it is that people have an infinite ability to hold very tightly to very stupid ideas AND that people can Believe stupid chit no matter how much the truth smacks them in the face.
The problem I see is that the damage has already been done to my generation (millenials) and the ones graduating from schools currently. This corruption is so deeply ingrained into peoples way of viewing the world and thinking I just dont see this just going away in the next 6 months. I see wokeness being pushed back now on a broader scale but the universities are still on 200% output and we have an entire generation in the workforce now that truly believe all of this garbage.
Wokeness is a fabricated controversy. The threat comes from the radicalization of the political right, paramilitarization and climate change.
You'd be surprised. Most working class people don't belive this shit.
Yeah it's being pumped in universities. Most people don't go to elite schools tho. Most people are working class.
It's a very small percentage of people that actually believe this and they all live in their own little upper class bubbles.
Wokeness is just yet one more thing for working class people to hate boujie mother fuckers for imo
That generation is essentially lost. Maybe there is hope for those coming up now, but we won’t know for decades.
I agree with you. A significant portion of the millennial generation use the "woke blueprint" to reason out issues. They aren't ideologues, they have just been educated to think this way and they have no reason to change their thinking
Yup and corporations. Many are still vigorously pushing DEI, UB and other debunked sexist, racist ideologies
The fact that something is stupid is no reason to believe the people will abandon it.
10-20 years not 6 months. But he’s absolutely right that people will deny they were ever like that.
Global warming deniers will also pretend they didn't doubt the science. Many are quietly doing it already.
Disagree on the 6 month timeframe. We have parents who trans'd their kids, and they are bought in for life. Those parents hold such positions of power that it is engrained into their personal narrative. Switching that viewpoint is career and credibility death.
I think you're right. And for some parents to really confront what they've done to their child would be an existential crisis of such magnitude that they might never really recover from it. Watching the father of a friend who died in a motorcycle accident at his funeral, and knowing that he had given his son the bike which was the cause of his death, I also knew he was never going to recover from that. He had just crumpled inside. I know transing your kid and giving them a motorcycle don't really line up in the analysis, but when you take part, in any way, in something that harms your child, the guilt is crippling.
I could be wrong, but I think that number is still fairly small. Although the number who identify as trans/non-binary is not small, I think that majority in that group is pursuing social transition only.
@@memph7610there are thousands of detransitioners already. They're setting up a clinic in England that will do hundreds of surgeries each year. There are hundreds of clinics in the US where there was just one a couple of decades ago, all of them churning out life long medical patients.
I think people have no idea how much damage has already been done.
I read the Scottish school guidelines four years ago and it shocked me, our kids have already had alternative ideological ideas implanted into thier heads INSTEAD of being taught how to think critically in order to be able to figure out things for themselves. Without those basics, how are kids meant to be able to dismiss bad ideas, especially when they were implanted at such a young age when intellectual & emotional development are primary.
The societal/ cultural sh!tshow hasn't even began.
People have tramp stamps and barbed wire band tattoos. Some people are named Rainbow. Just the modern incarnation of stupid fads.
@@justlorelle4249 Yeah, I mean it depends what you call small. I meant small as in most parents do not have trans kids. But the number of medicalized children is still large enough to be quite a tragedy.
In a country like the UK, you have about 8,000,000 youth between the age of 14 and 24. Lets say 10% of them identify as trans/non-binary - 800,000, and 10% of those are medicalized, so about 80,000. And lets say 10% of those have already admitted to themselves that they made a mistake, so 8,000. Compared to an electorate of 50,000,000, that means only 0.05% of the voting age population will be detrans or parents of detrans. Maybe 2-3% detrans if you expand that to Dunbar's number of relations.
I do think that the rate of detransitioners, desisters and regretters will increase though, since there is usually a "honeymoon phase" of a few years where they gaslight themselves into believing they made the right decision.
Once the number of people who know a detransitioner reaches 5-20% of the population, then it will no longer be possible to hide the problem and it will become forced into mainstream conversation and scientific discourse and the whole ideology will rapidly crumble.
If they're able to sue hospitals/doctors and organize together into advocacy groups, maybe the lies of the ideology will collapse sooner. But numbers I gave for my UK scenario are probably too high - in the US studies report that only about 0.1-0.2% of youth are medicalized.
Bog is right about people not admitting that they ever believed in the ideology. That part he has right.
>Bog 😂
@@Animal_lives_matter The Legend of Boggy Creek... The Bog monster.
Yep, but the Internet remembers!
I feel like it's already drastically weakened in the past year. I think after COVID, Ukraine, and Israel/Palestine, people have got increasingly sick of being told they're not allowed to hold nuanced views on morally complex issues. Increasingly I'm noticing proper debates on mainstream media again. The Overton window has widened substantially. And people who try to shut down discussion are just being ignored.
When the coof happened, it made me that much more adversarial/defiant to the woke agenda. My natural irritation of being told what to do by self-proclaimed authority figures has been absolutely bristling the past few years.
It's already too baked in to our institutions. It is breaking, but it will be pushed through more authoritative means. Going to be a rough few years.
Yes! I think you are right on the nose with that.
10 years at least, optimistically.
It’s not going away without a lot of people kicking and screaming about it. However, we are past peak woke, and people are seeing the consequences for themselves. There’s only so much that mainstream media can suppress when people see the reality.
It may be accurate to say that the “majority of people” are not buying the DEI ideology, but the problem persists in the managerial class.
The nonprofit organization I work for just hired a new Executive Director. She is already talking about bringing in a DEI consultant to update our mandatory trainings…
“So that we can all be speaking the same language, and understand the difference between equity and equality”.
This continues to be a profound problem.
Woke will change from its current form into the next iteration, by changing its language, focus, and apparent objectives.
I'm afraid Peter is wrong because, just as he did with the New Atheism movement, he is overestimating the rationality of humanity. Wokism has so many of the markers of religion, including many of the tribal benefits, that it won't evaporate in the light of rationality anymore than did religion. The Substitution Hypothesis is real. Humans are simply too wired for tribalism and associated group-think religious beliefs to willingly give up those beliefs without finding new ones that serve the same purpose.
You’re probably right. Wokeness is still reaching new people today. So wokeness might fall out of favor among the more active thinkers, but it’s also taken on a life of its own. That being said, if woke comes to include mainly social disadvantages, it can disappear practically overnight if it’s replaced with something else.
Yes, it's absolutely a religion and a substitute for Christianity.
I think you are spot on.
@@bobjenkins3rdI'm scratching my head wondering what could possibly replaced this new evangelical secular religion.
It won't be Asatru and classical liberalism doesn't seem strong enough to recover or even defend against it, obviously.
@@ribbrascal I’d guess technofascism with a fuller expression of post liberalism. It would be very easy to construct a multigenerational caste system. An example…. You liked this video and 80 years from now you’re dead. But the penalty of liking this video carries forward to your offspring. Data aggregation and AI are the next developments which are obviously already here. It’s elites that are slow to recognize all the power that could be harnessed with this even though they do get the basics. Greater centralization in all possible regards is needed to actualize this.
Edit: basically they’ll realize gender and race aren’t as important as they thought and they need more than census data to discriminate.
They may say that they never believed it.. But I have screenshots :)
This conversation had some resemblance of Street Epistemology but lacked any critical examination. Some of the positives were, both participants expressed their confidence levels in their beliefs-definitely something that is a part of the SE ‘recipe’. Additionally, they effectively communicated their reasons for holding these beliefs, which is another component of the SE approach.
They also ventured into predicting each other's reasons for their beliefs. While this isn't a standard practice in SE, it doesn't pose an issue and has the potential to be useful for understanding the other's perspective, adding entertainment, or even building rapport.
However, the conversation lacked a significant aspect of SE: inquiring whether the reasons for their predictive claims are robust and reliable enough to justify their beliefs. Without this layer of inquiry, we miss out on evaluating the true strength of the reasons presented. It's this exploration of the quality of reasons that often leads to a deeper reflection in SE, and I believe incorporating this element could have made the conversation more enriching. Without it, I am lead to believe this is not Street Epistemology.
This is an AI generated comment
@@Hot4Thot Even if it was, why does that matter?
I don't know any woke people personally. But I do know a lot of people who are going along with it. If the latter quits, wokeness is indeed over because actual woke people are so fringe.
It took about 5 years to reach peak woke in 2022 and I assume it will be a five year decline but it will just mutate into something else.
Outright domestic terrorism
You think peak woke was a year ago?
I wish I could believe that...
I think it’s a pendulum. It’s not going to go away until it is forced out by something else. I’m not going to speculate on what that would be, lest I help summon the worst options.
Enjoyed this format. Funny to hear you two go back and forth guessing
We didn't guess very well, did we? 😅
Travis! Great to see you upright, my friend! You look great and I hope you are pain free. Keep up the fantastic work.
I have been pain-free for over a year and a half - thanks!
@@thesignalproductions What worked for you? I am still in back pain Hell.
@@Tusitala1967 The book 'The Way Out' and pain reprocessing therapy cured me. Best of luck!
Corporate America bought into DEI and spawned a cottage industry of speakers, and trainers to keep it going. It's past the point of no return now so even if the public changes its mind we will still have all these policies and ideas embedded in our lives to a significant extent. It may get toned-down but for a lot of us it's here to stay...
Peter's naivete about human nature impresses.
Never underestimate neither derangement nor evil.
Nor cowardice.
THIS.
Wokeness is here to stay. Dei is ingrained in every level of government , corporations, educational institutions etc.
Idk. I think Peter is just so fed up with wokeness that he’s trying to manifest its quick decline. Lol😂
😂
Very glad to find your channel
No. Absolutely not. The long march through the institutions took decades. Unfortunately, it’ll take decades to undo.
Super interesting conversation.
Great stuff!!
It’s good to see Travis up and about.
I agree that identity politics will be with us for the foreseeable future (i.e. until issues of identity have been resolved).
To the point that a new ideology will replace wokeness, my own hope is that some of these people will find a nice little church to join, learn some humility and the art of forgiveness, confess their sins to their priest, feed the homeless at the soup kitchen, and learn practical ways to serve the marginalized groups they profess to care about.
Interesting thought experiment. People do have a short
attention span so I could see it petering out for other causes. And if real life throws serious problems at our country, it would die right quick. One of the things that I don’t see going away is trans humanism. Medical profiteering through body dysmorphia is exploding.
I cannot understand how Peter can be this much of an optimist. Still, if he says it, I'll consider.
I wish Peter was correct, but i think he's being highly naiive. I remember people saying the phenomenon of 'Social Justice Warriors' would be over in a years time...back in 2014. In 2023 its worse than ever, and the trajectory is negative.
I think in a few years it will be over, just like it slowly crept into our culture over a few years, it'll take just as long to leave perhaps. I tend to agree with Peter's replacement theory though, something will seep into the vacuum.
"It's so fucking stupid." Best professional description of Woke yet.
Bold Peter. I hope you're right.
I think it all dies eventually, but 6 months is generous. It's going to take a long time to convince the tricked that they were tricked.
Six months after the end of the world wokeness will finally end.
Phones can switch people in two weeks. Great discussion guys!
About to watch this, but “wokeness” is really just the dressings of something else. So sure “wokeness” might be gone in 6 months, 5 years, whatever. But the actual thing itself, its roots, are as strong as ever. And unfortunately, we are attached to those same roots even if we don’t have the same outwardly destructive bend.
Can you imagine how great it would be if wokeness ended in 6 months?
Saine people doing productive things.
If only it were true...
"It's so f#&!ng stupid!" 🤣
Truth 😂
I think we’re at the “end of the beginning” where woke is concerned, not the other way around. If Trump is elected again, I think we’ll see a doubling down on woke. I’m not as optimistic as Peter.
Trump will be reelected, if he's still alive.
Also is always important to bear in mind is not everything people on the Left believes which is factually wrong or pseudoscientifical.
It hasnt peaked because another man won another ncaa swimming title. The policies need to revert back to NORMAL thoughts on standards and dif between male and female.
Hoop dream boys. This ideology is deeply ingrained in academia and even parts of out legal system. Not to mention that the dei hires aren’t going away any time soon.
Not in 6 months.
People are getting over optimistic in the face of recent victories.
Woke is losing, but it has not yet lost ground, only momentum.
Itll never go away, it will change form.
great stuff!
Is the whole "men can be women" (as a fallacy) similar to "bread & wine become the body & blood of Christ" with the word being *trans*-substantiation, of course. The key difference, with regards to the Roman Catholicism belief, is the outside world itself does not change in any substantial way only the believer's relationship with God and the church. In contrast, the article of faith that men can literally become women *imposes* itself on believers and non-believers alike 🤔
Just made a thread on X explaining why (respectfully) Pete is wrong.
Christ I hope it goes away in 6 months.
I do think that woke ideology will have a hard time "progressing" further than it already has due to resistance, but where I live (Canada) it's definitely still quite strong. Specifically, the trans ideology is quite deeply rooted here, in that very few people are willing to speak up within the establishment or within left wing circles. With covid, CRT, BLM, climate change, diversity quotas, I think support for the leftist/woke narrative on those issues will weaken over the next several years, but with trans issues, the establishment and the left have already committed so much into an idea that is so wrong that it'll just be too humiliating for them to admit their mistake.
Travis, I cannot become a member, as my funds are low, and today, I isolate in a 2020 Ram Promaster wanting to connect and tell my own story and observations of my past life, especially regarding my experiences with males, since childhood and High School, experiences with Gay and Trans people, of the 60’s & 70’s to start. I married a man whom lied a lot. He was very charismatic and manipulative from the start, yet as a teen Nanny he was the one I followed then was conned into marrying for 2+ years. His face was on a billboard, along with his third wife’s in Washington eventually, that was about gays. It was a photo of many people who were trans, gay and straight. I believe the caption was “Can You Tell Which Of These are Gay?
This will never end
what was that nietzsche quote at the end their
"In reality, hope is the worst of all evils for it prolongs the torments of man."
This started in the universities. That is where it will end.
What Peter is missing is that it's not about believing crazy things at the core of it, it's about accepting other people and not judging and that's what leads to the crazy beliefs The core of it is the not judging acceptance of these people who are claim to be suffering so much they would otherwise kill themselves. And this is the core of the belief of why you should believe the other the craziness not the core is not to believe the craziness the core is to be compassionate. And that is what would need to be overcome for the people to stop believing craziness.
You remember that snap chat dog filter face thing .......yeah, I rest my case
To answer this question, we have to look back in history and search for ideologies, practices, and cultures that have been regarded as normal and preached during their time, but have proven their failure and fallen due to political or ideological opposing movements
we can easily pick : natzism, lobotomy, slavery social darwinism and not considering women citizens with rights
so can we move from wokeness?
absolutely
is it in 6 mouths!
no but it's a step for sure
I'd like to optimistic but...
six years maybe.
Either way, their are expensive cigars riding on the outcome.
Cant end because it never existed to begin with.
it might take 10 years to fully root wokeness out of the bureaucracies, but it is already dead
I do think wokeness could go away in six months. There are so many peoplr who now pretend like they werent being hyper rediculous during covid.
What's the meaning of the Chinese writing?
Identity politics is just another form of profiling that everyone hates. It profiles both those for and against it. You cannot equate what a person is with what a person does because that prohibits anyone from ever changing their ways, even if they want to. And we know that people have free will to behave as they want to.
A lot of comments here questioning the 6 month part. It’s says disrepute in 6 months. Not totally eradicated in 6 months. It’s already in disrepute now so..
That depends on who you ask. The people who promote it will never admit it's disreputable, and the people who hate it will claim that it is, leaving us at a de facto zero point.
@@DruuzilTechGames the fact that it’s woke to promote trans in female sports and is often now talked about in a disfavoured way shows a certain level of disrepute now.
wokeness is leverage for advantage. People gonna cling to wokeness in relation to what can be gained. A bad economy focuses on survival and ditches luxury beliefs, so wokeness goes away as the economy weakens.
I suspect that more people who never had an opinion or are more recently learning about what is happening in schools and to young children will take a side and stand against this and that people who were afraid to speak out against it will see increased numbers of people speaking out and will step up up too. There will hopefully be people from the woke side who will start to see things differently. There’s a backlash coming and it will be mighty. I predict the LGB will separate from the T and the rest of the alphabet soup over this nonsense. I predict there will be pediatric surgeons who will no longer practice medicine, psych professionals who will never work again, and a collapse in the public school system in the US potentially accompanied by a voucher system that defunds public schools. Hopefully an end to kids using tic toc. Once one brick is removed, it is easier to remove another and another until it collapses.
There will be an unlikely alliance between gay, religious people, feminists, men, basically, all of us. I don’t think we or the world will ever quite recover from the damage of wokism, but there will be a collective learning especially around children’s developmental needs. There will be a couple of generations that cling to it, but eventually not as strongly. As they get older and realize the damage done to their or their friends’ bodies, and their shortened life spans, their allegiance to this ideology will wane. Historians, sociologists, educators, healthcare professionals will study it for decades.
don't think so, but I hope he's right
6 months is way too optimistic to go away... most people just go along with it as the default now.... even questioning it is heresy so they wont able consider they may be wrong... so 6 months for people to abandon that ideology, is basically impossible... (it will dissappear eventually, but not in 6 months, may take years to fully erradicate it, but maybe never, people is too easy to manipulate).
I hope Peter is right…. But I don’t think he is….
Well, this not going to age well for Peter. I think the tied is turning but no where near that quickly.
Textbook bamboozlement.
this is why elon thinks death is a good thing because old people are stubborn.
In most places it will be gone in 6 months. In other places, it will not. In the state of Minnesota, there have been laws passed that will make it easier for manipulative parents in other states, to kidnap their kids away from the sane parent and move to Minnesota. The schools have already developed language for it. Those kids are called Gender Refugees. People continue to believe all sorts of things that are not true if it is in their personal interest to believe it and in some places, the people who have institutional power are so embedded in this that they won't let it go. Maybe some people will start to see reason but, it is hard to get rid of the people who won't.
I love it when people can disagree like this
How do you define "wokeness"?
A worldview that is a combination of Neo-Marxism, Critical Theory, Post Modernism, and faith. It contends that their is a systemic hierarchy of power that was created by Euro-Centric white people in order to structure society and oppress marginalized groups.
@@dandee6331Thanks for responding! I think I understand your definition. I wonder how you might explain it to a 5 year old or someone who hasn't learned some of the political terminology you used? What part do you think Faith has to play? Do you think empathy for marginalized groups might be a large factor as well?
@ShubertReads I would say a 5 year old has no business learning about this illogical worldview. Instead focus on reading learning numbers colors etc. As for faith the reason why their is a faith component to it is because it acts like a gnostic cult in that Woke people feel as though they are privy to certain "knowledge " the rest of us can't see nor comprehend. They feel as though they have the right answers and we must subscribe to those answers and if not we are infidels. As for empathy. Well empathy is an important thing to have however when it is exploited as in rhe case with the woke bad things are allowed to happen. Marxism always looks and sounds good on paper but the piles of bodies tells a different story.
@@dandee6331 Thanks for your response. And sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean to ask you "should 5 year olds be learning about this?" What I meant to ask was: how would you explain this concept to a person who doesn't know all the political terms, using simple language that a layman could understand?
@@ShubertReadseasiest way to describe woke in 2 words "Critical Consciousness"
Disagree that it's going away anytime soon. First, people mean very different things when using the term "woke". Second, those that believe the dogma are deeply, emotionally, invested in the beliefs and it is part of their "identity" and central to seeing themselves as moral and righteous. Violence is more likely than a change in beliefs under those conditions. Identity politics and "woke" are varieties of tribal thinking, they're viewing society as a conflict between groups. That way of thinking is deeply baked into the human mind. Only another highly moral "us vs them" ideology will replace it.
Identity politics is not just "left". There's a right (majoritarian) identity politics as well. The entire history of the left up to 1989 is essentially the history of the organized worker's movement, not of "identity". Also, wokeness seems to be able to co-exist happily with consumer capitalism and the state, even the CIA seem to approve of it. So do the police and the army, in lots of Europe anyway. If the state, the corporations, the secret service, the army and the police all approve of something, then it is not very radical. It's just the ideology of late capitalism, "liberal" version.
Peter is right saying wokeism and leftism are two separate things but he is far too optimistic to think wokeness will be gone in 6 months.
Has Peter lost his mind? It’s not going anywhere for a long long time
The fact that Peter keeps calling it insane shows he doesn't understand what drives it. Just like they don't understand what drives him when they call him hateful.
But if he doesn't understand what drives it he also doesn't know how to replace it with something better. He's not in a position to judge how it ends and when.
Sometimes these guys get a bit too intellectual. Id love to ask them why they think eastern trans people don't cause the same issues as western trans people.
Old-school transsexuals never really caused any trouble for anyone. They were like _"I'm going to live as the opposite sex now."_ and most people were like _"Well that's a bit strange, but okay, whatever makes you happy."_
They didn't turn it into a political ideology which actively sought to reshape the entirety of society, language, science, and epistemology around their gender identity. Which we're told is simultaneously an arbitrary social construct that must be dismantled, and also an innate reality that must not be questioned.
@@andybrice2711"Eastern trans people" are effeminate homosexual men who have been allowed to exist only if they adopt a contrived social role as fake women.
Which part of the east? New iterations of gender ideology certainly are causing problems in India. Especially for women and children.
These comments are some of the most intelligent and nuanced comments I’ve read on any issue. Thank you commenters. And thank you for making me feel I’m not as smart as I thought. 🙃
What I get from this is that you don't understand liberalism, which has been around for centuries, and how it vastly differs from wokeness and its immediate antecedents, which have maybe been around 60 years or thereabouts if I'm super super generous, but only really started getting going in the 90's with political correctness. Wokeness is basically an authoritarian collectivist cult that has glommed onto the trappings of liberalism. It isn't really different in nature from the rabid christian evangelists from the 70's to 90's other than the shape of the jar it happens to be in. It is not an intellectual or logical extension of liberalism. The people that are woke now would have been christian fundamentalists if they had been born in the 60's.
I very much like Peter Boghossian, but all the woke stuff is with us for a very long time. Not even sure it can be completely expunged. It's partly a sickness of a peak free society. A society where microscopic social ques are considered "aggression" and the search for offensive happens at scale. And don't forget the quasi religious aspects of the movement. It might actually be the new New Age.
I wonder if Peter knows that what he is wearing looks like a Star Trek uniform or if that's just a fluke. I'm guessing he does it on purpose.
This was terrible. Sorry. So many ways to critically discuss wokeism and how it might end such as talking about expected medical outcomes, lawsuits, Insurance pushback, etc. But, we're taking him as credible in the culture wars when he says, "they believe utterly utterly insane shit". Oookaaay.
Maybe in a year. Hopefully.
I'm really hoping wokeness will be around for a long time yet as I'm working on a comedy series based around eviscerating the fake morality with scathing satire. It can't go until it's been properly excoriated.
LOL Misrepresenting the meaning of a concept. Superimpose it on those social attitudes that bother us and then claim that extrapolating that nonsense will have some consequence. Intellectual shit.
I think Peter is just more of an optimist.
We can only hope its gone in 6 months. Fingers crossed for 2024
now that good old Peter's out of academia for GOOD (no one goes back in after such a long time off), will he just be this intellectual troll? I'd rather have a book from you, guy. get off youtube and "streaming," man. yes wokeness is utterly divisive and lame. yours truly, old school liberal now full on traditionalist.
Both of you are wrong. It’s here to stay and will only get worse.
U know I never hear liberals talk about wokeness . It's only ever these anti woke pl that can't even explain what it is . 😂
What if I told you Peter and I are both liberal?
@@thesignalproductions my first question would be , do u mean Liberal or liberal?
And my next question is , why do u think that being aware to social injustice and discrimination is a bad thing?
And then I'd ask , by what circumstances do u call urself a liberal .
This video is horribly done.
Keep living your best life.