Dolch Pac 65 - Part 7: Windows XP and Crunchbang Linux installation, and quintuple boot!

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  • Опубліковано 10 гру 2024

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  • @atomikrobot300099
    @atomikrobot300099 6 років тому +16

    Why go through all this work when they're still in stock at CDW :)
    www.cdw.com/product/dolch-pac-65-dt-pii-450-mhz-64-mb-5-gb-lcd-12.1in/144016

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  6 років тому +17

      What the ...? You can buy it for $10,742.99, in stock, ships same day. Complete with the latest 450 MHz Pentium II, 64 MB of RAM and a whopping 5GB hard drive. Just for fun I clicked and it added it to my cart. Joke? Proof that there are wrinkles in the space time fabric? Did they not update their database since 1998? Should I write a glowing review? Something does not compute. Mind blown.

    • @xephon3000
      @xephon3000 6 років тому

      Wow! It looks legit and all! Weird!

    • @kbhasi
      @kbhasi 6 років тому +2

      (spits in my mind after seeing McAfee listed as the manufacturer on the page)

    • @DandyDon1
      @DandyDon1 6 років тому

      I think my heart skipped a couple beats at that price point....

    • @shana_dmr
      @shana_dmr 6 років тому +5

      I'm pretty sure they sell it to some weird government/military agency that has to have that exact computer for some weird protocol that would require bazillion of dollars to change. Either that, or it's just used as part of some manufacturing process control/CNC machine somewhere. I worked at truck manufacturing plant that had plenty of hardware being controlled by very old PC with expansion card custom made by some company that doesn't exist anymore - most of my job was tending to early 90's era computers. If someone offered me NOS PCs with exactly same specifications I'd probably buy them for whatever ridiculous price they would want;)

  • @0fend0
    @0fend0 6 років тому +7

    Haha, the kung fu sounds had me cracking up. Thanks Marc!

  • @zeeclone
    @zeeclone 6 років тому +1

    Thank you Marc! This has been a fun series of videos that very much reminded me of my first tinkering with multi boot os hardware at uni in the early noughts. I, however, did not dedicate myself to debian-fu and am now caused to rely on Google-Fu when debugging my Linux nas

  • @MikeBramm
    @MikeBramm 6 років тому +13

    You might want to clone that disk and store the image away in case you need to re-build that system. Then you only have to re-apply the image instead of having to go through all that again.

  • @loganlentz3069
    @loganlentz3069 4 роки тому +2

    I did something this a couple days ago on an old Compaq desktop that is a slot 1 Pentium like your Dolch Pac 65. Its a triple boot across one 120GB hard disk. Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 with all drivers installed (including the elusive color driver), Windows XP Service Pack 3, and Slackware Linux 7.0. I might install Windows 98SE on a separate 4.3GB IDE drive I found, though I have no need for it at the moment. Hope your Dolch lives long, the one I had did not. (Then again it was being used as a pocket server and something got fried.)

  • @georgemurdocca4871
    @georgemurdocca4871 6 років тому

    I enjoyed watching the process to achieve your quintuple boot. As much as I despise Windows (a black box that mandates aggravating trial and error troubleshooting) it has a big place in history (mine no exception) and a retro lab. Took me back to another time in my life. Great work getting all 5 working. Very happy to see a nice lean Linux distro (the real swiss army knife of general computing) on there.

  • @bamdadkhan
    @bamdadkhan 6 років тому +5

    this was awesome : ) thanks for sharing the whole journey.

  • @xephon3000
    @xephon3000 6 років тому

    Congrats on completing this project! It was exciting to tune in and see how it progressed over time. Looking forward to seeing the dolch in action

  • @UpLateGeek
    @UpLateGeek 6 років тому +1

    Damnit, now you've given me a new idea for a project, so obviously it has to go on my ever increasing list of projects that I don't have time to work on. ): I saved a couple of embedded PCs from the e-waste bin at work, so I think it'd be pretty cool to build a portable chassis like this for them. Pretty sure the backplane connectors are all the same (same as the Dolch, PCI connector behind an ISA connector), so I'm guessing it's a standard design. The great thing is it means I can swap out the motherboard and go from socket 7 Pentium I era to socket 370 Pentium III era.

  • @Furiends
    @Furiends 6 років тому +10

    CrunchBang when it was first released was intended as a minimum Debian out of box and while Debian has usually managed to be minimum that didn't always come without a lot of configuration. However Debians installer and the distribution overall these days makes it easy to make a minimal and customized distribution. CrunchBang is not longer developed. I would use a modern vanilla Debian instead. Debian still releases a livecd that fits on a CD although there's also a net install version.

    • @TheStefanskoglund1
      @TheStefanskoglund1 6 років тому +1

      Even for debian the runtime memory requirements have increased (even without X/Xorg/Wayland)

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  6 років тому +6

      CrunchBang still developped, under the BunsenLab Linux name.

  • @timthompson468
    @timthompson468 6 років тому +2

    Wow, that’s an amazing machine. Thanks for sharing your work. I don’t have the skill or resources to implement all of that, but some of it will be very helpful. I picked up a PAC 64. My goal was less ambitious; I just needed a DOS/Win98 system with HPIB. It had a slightly flakey screen - the color of the text would change, and I could “fix” it momentarily with light pressure on the frame. I was assuming it was a flakey connector, but when I took it apart and applied light pressure to the display boards in an attempt to locate the faulty connector - poof - the display went black. I found another display for

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  6 років тому +1

      I have had that flaky screen connection problem with both of my Dolches with 800x600 screens. It's the low profile connector on the screen itself that unplugs. Very hard to get to. See my older, first Dolch video: ua-cam.com/video/gETTwDHAl_w/v-deo.html

  • @airingcupboard
    @airingcupboard 6 років тому

    Highly enjoyable as usual. Thanks Marc.

  • @RobSchofield
    @RobSchofield 4 роки тому +1

    You, sir, are A Steely-Eyed Missile Man!!
    I'd forgotten just how much of this agony you had to go through for stuff like this. I did have a DOS/NT4/FreeBSD setup at one point for similar reasons (development and test).
    One thing I didn't grasp: what was your disk/partition/boot loader map? Where did you have GRUB, on your IDE Primary Master?

  • @steva7159
    @steva7159 6 років тому

    Very interesting series about this computer,i enjoyed it quite a bit. Escpecially the linux manouvers lol

  • @OsmosisHD
    @OsmosisHD 6 років тому

    PartitionMagic brings back a lot of memories. Loved that tool, easy and does the job!
    Nowadays I'm using Paragon Partition Manager. Works great with modern file-systems (GPT,HFS,EXT4 and such)

  • @TilmanBaumann
    @TilmanBaumann 6 років тому

    Multibooting old windows is so crazy. I have some very bad bud thankfully very old memories of that.

  • @stevesmusic1862
    @stevesmusic1862 6 років тому

    Marc. Loving these videos keep it up!!

  • @jeremiefaucher-goulet3365
    @jeremiefaucher-goulet3365 6 років тому +3

    "The CuriousMarc Maneuver" ?? lol Had to laugh at that one ;)

  • @krnlg
    @krnlg 6 років тому

    An excellent series of videos! Thanks :)

  • @jamesgrimwood1285
    @jamesgrimwood1285 6 років тому +11

    Your next challenge is to install OS/2 on it.

    • @willemkossen
      @willemkossen 6 років тому

      now you are adding the hard stuff. i gave up on them a long time ago... But true, i want to see that !

  • @Digimer
    @Digimer 6 років тому

    Congrats, that was quite the exercise and I'm sure Mr. Dulch would have gotten quite the smile out of it.

  • @Colaholiker
    @Colaholiker 6 років тому

    That Kung-Fu Tux just made me spit my coffee all over my screen and keyboard. Thanks...

  • @choro76
    @choro76 6 років тому +1

    The linux video section, this is relevant to my interests and a stubborn Dell Inspiron 1501!

  • @b747xx
    @b747xx 6 років тому +1

    You could check the makeactive option in grub. That way you can make it so that the partition you boot become active.
    The makeactive command is actually recommanded for old operating system, like Windows 9x/Dos ;)

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  6 років тому +1

      Thanks! That definitely sounds like the right option to use. For now it works, so maybe it does it by itself, but I'll definitely look into that if I run in trouble again.

    • @riverchampeimont
      @riverchampeimont 3 роки тому

      Exactly what I thought when watching the video "you're missing this makeactive instruction in your win98 GRUB entry script". I guess CuriousMarc's solution works here because WinXP does not care to have its root partition active (so this privilege can be given to Win98). Probably "makeactive" would be mandatory if you wanted to boot both for instance both Win95 and Win98 each on a different partition.

  • @afnDavid
    @afnDavid 6 років тому +1

    So does WGA (activation at the Microsoft mothership) still work for in Windows XP?
    Same thing.. does the updates mechanism still work in XP?

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  6 років тому +1

      As of this video, yes and yes. It even tried to update me with the dreaded Windows Genuine Advantage...

  • @rkan2
    @rkan2 6 років тому +1

    What quality were you running UA-cam videos at? Maybe it defaulted to 720p? How do they run @ 144p/240p?

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  6 років тому +3

      Yes I have to try again at lower res, and then try turning video acceleration all the way back up.

  • @GGigabiteM
    @GGigabiteM 6 років тому +2

    So the Dolch has the same problem as an iMac G3 running Linux, Xorg hates the video chip.
    I remember having to spend days using custom tools and weird non-standard Xorg options to get the internal CRt to run properly at 1024x768 and not be shifted off to the right.

    • @TechLeftBehind
      @TechLeftBehind 6 років тому

      As someone running Debian on a iBook G3 -- please don't remind me of the pain...
      In this case, the radeon driver in Debian 8 (In 7.x it was fine iirc) just refuses to play ball with the first generation Radeon chip inside. Screen goes black as soon as it loads, and there is nothing that you can do to change that. Only solution is to blacklist the radeon driver and run with radeonfb (framebuffer only -- no acceleration of any kind). Makes an already miserably slow system even more so.
      Turns out Linux devs aren't too concerned with continued support for 15+ year old hardware. What a shame. ;)

    • @paulabraham2550
      @paulabraham2550 5 років тому

      It's not just Mac and Dolch - video driver set up is a weakness in Linux, particularly in the more modern versions that claim to do everything automagically and dispense with xorg,conf. I've just been struggling with setting up a system on a brand new M/B CPU combination and it was a nightmare.

    • @acmefixer1
      @acmefixer1 4 роки тому

      @@TechLeftBehind
      The Linux guys can't do anything for 15 yr old hardware if they don't have any access to it. It's just unobtainable.

  • @SeltsamerAttraktor
    @SeltsamerAttraktor 6 років тому +3

    I once had Linux run with 17.8Mb of RAM usage, running Xorg, fluxbox, conky, xterm, apache, proftpd, sshd. Distro was Gentoo. Totally pointless exercise but it was cool.

    • @shana_dmr
      @shana_dmr 6 років тому

      I once tried to run Linux on 486 with 4 MB RAM, but most distributions (even super lightweight ones like DSL) couldn't fit a kernel in 4MB ;)

  • @oturgator
    @oturgator 6 років тому

    The boot loaders make me nervous. Instead, I partition the drive, change to the drive that I am going to install the OS from the Boot Up Sequence section of the BIOS, make that logic partition active and continue with the installation of the OS. At the end, I end up with 3-4 logical partitions that are all marked as Active, but I never had any issues. I do the switching between the OSs from the BIOS by selecting the right Boot Up Sequence using the Drive Letter of the Logical Partition.

  • @sergiofagundes1972
    @sergiofagundes1972 6 років тому

    You can accelerate win98 by disabling virtual memory, reboot to dos, defrag (quick defrag or defrag -q) reboot to windows, create virtual memory with fixed size. And you can put a Compact Flash card or SD Card with a IDE adapter, there is some CF adapter with a external port so you can access the disk an change it, so you can put different OS in various cards.

  • @eugenioarpayoglou
    @eugenioarpayoglou 6 років тому

    Have you tried using QEMM to optimize your DOS base memory? It's similar to Memmaker that came with DOS, but more efficient.

  • @JacGoudsmit
    @JacGoudsmit 6 років тому

    1:13 "Setup will complete in x minutes". Those numbers are hard-coded, not measured. I have a USB stick that boots from Windows PE with an unattended Windows XP install that installs in about 15 minutes. The Microsoft Minutes only take about 15 seconds during that install :-)

  • @ih8tusernam3s
    @ih8tusernam3s 4 роки тому

    Arch Linux would be a good choice for the Dolch.

  • @BarnabyMalet
    @BarnabyMalet 5 років тому

    Hello. Did you have to set any BIOS settings to get XP installed? I have a Flexpac, with exactly the same motherboard as yours (ci6bm-b1). Windows 98 installs fine, but 2000/XP crashes after first reboot (post formatting). Specifically, WinXP hangs after loading mup.sys. XP LiveCDs do not work either.

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  5 років тому

      Not that I remember, but I had already done a lot of messing up with the BIOS settings for DOS and Win98. Mine had the screen issue that I first thought was a crash, but it was just an unreadable dialog box. Googling up "XP hangs at mup.sys" I get a lot of hits. I did not spend time to look into it, but it seems to be a well-known issue, with hopefully with a well-known solution.

    • @BarnabyMalet
      @BarnabyMalet 5 років тому

      @@CuriousMarc Thank you so much for your reply! I really enjoy the channel. Unfortunately, it's non-trivial, I think it may be some sort of hardware failure or perhaps an issue with the BIOS settings - there are quite a few possible permutations so hard to know for sure, but it's exactly the same version that you have so I'm hopeful. And unfortunately the XP boot sequence isn't as verbose as Linux so difficult to get to the root cause. Will keep digging :)

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  5 років тому

      Oops, that looks complicated indeed. Unfortunately I have no experience with that problem. If you want I dumped the BIOS for my board during my BIOS incident debug. I could post it on my web site. At least you would have the same BIOS version as mine to try.

    • @BarnabyMalet
      @BarnabyMalet 5 років тому

      ​@@CuriousMarc Haha, probably not as complicated as restoring an Apollo guidance computer :) After looking through your videos, it seems like the IDE cable could be the issue - you're using 80-pin I believe whereas I'm using 40-pin. Need to wait for the part now to be sure. Thanks for your help!

    • @BarnabyMalet
      @BarnabyMalet 5 років тому

      ​@@CuriousMarc Hi there, so I ended up trying a different cable and unfortunately, I was unsuccessful. I've come to the conclusion that it's either a hardware failure (which would be outside of my area of expertise) or a bios misconfiguration. Windows 98 runs fine, but I'm unable to get anything installed that is more recent than 2000 (win 2k, xp or crunchbang). If you do have the time, is there any chance you could please publish a quick video or pictures of your bios settings for this machine? Seeing the values that you've set on the following pages would be super useful: imgur.com/a/IolyQoK

  • @jmunozar
    @jmunozar 6 років тому

    niice!, thanks for all these videos :)

  • @cjhawk67
    @cjhawk67 6 років тому

    @CuriousMarc A trick to speed up xp allot is to run services.msc from start>run and go to automatic update service and disable it. That service pound the cpu randomly and even on allot of my pentium 4 machines it will just pin the cpu at 100% until you turn it off. Unless that is you don't have service pack 3

  • @maxpoulin64
    @maxpoulin64 6 років тому

    The xorg.conf actually goes to /etc/X11/xorg.conf. /usr is supposed to be maintained by your package manager (apt/dpkg), and system-wide configurations to /etc. This article might be useful for you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard

  • @DandyDon1
    @DandyDon1 6 років тому

    Do you have enough room for Dawn?

  • @ErikZarth
    @ErikZarth 6 років тому

    Anybody got a download source for Crunchbang v10 would be appreciated.

  • @zarkeh3013
    @zarkeh3013 4 роки тому

    Yeah... That Active Partition thing. I use a Boot Manager, like Smart BootManager or Plop Boot Manager In MBR to do the Active Partition thing. Then move grub into the partition to do Linux. which for me would require a re-install cos I'm dumb-foo in linux...
    ... now then a oofeei ... ufo-eeK ... UEFI Boot Manager, erm....

  • @lelandclayton5462
    @lelandclayton5462 6 років тому

    I understand having Win98/DOS, XP and Linux but why would you bother with NT4? I would rather use Windows 2000 rather then NT4 or XP.

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  6 років тому +2

      See the first videos - NT is the original system from this machine with the Fiber Channel software and drivers

  • @Ivo--
    @Ivo-- 6 років тому +4

    Gee I wonder what your super secret password is, Marc. 😉

  • @Digimer
    @Digimer 6 років тому

    Bah! When you see the upload before the video is available in HD...

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  6 років тому +2

      But you get the free vintage bits for being the first comment! Lucky you.

    • @Digimer
      @Digimer 6 років тому

      Vintage bits?

  • @kbhasi
    @kbhasi 6 років тому

    4:26 Ah, so that's why you decided to not install the latest version of BunsenLabs (spiritual successor to CrunchBang)…

  • @KayoMichiels
    @KayoMichiels 4 роки тому

    Oh man, too bad you didn't show the windows xp installation song

  • @timhe
    @timhe 6 років тому

    Good work :)

  • @RonJohn63
    @RonJohn63 4 роки тому

    3:44 Install an ad blocker... :D

  • @HappyDiscoDeath
    @HappyDiscoDeath 4 роки тому

    WHOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

  • @luckybob77
    @luckybob77 6 років тому

    You go through all the work to add more IDE AND SCSI. Why not disable the IDE, freeing 14/15 irq and just have scsi everything?

    • @acmefixer1
      @acmefixer1 4 роки тому

      @Bradley Nuckols
      How can you boot from SCSI when the drivers for SCSI are on the SCSI disk? They're not in the motherboard! 😱

  • @henrymach
    @henrymach 6 років тому

    You could also try TinyCore Linux www.tinycorelinux.net/

  • @simontay4851
    @simontay4851 6 років тому

    Why don't you install an AGP or PCI display card and wire the VGA output to the internal display. It does have an AGP slot (even a 2x one), doesn't it. If there are no free slots left, could you go without the USB card? The motherboard should be new enough to have at least 2 USBs onboard?

  • @IceCreamKimi
    @IceCreamKimi 6 років тому

    My god that poor enter key!

  • @srfrg9707
    @srfrg9707 6 років тому

    XP est a ce jour la meilleure version de windows produite par Micro$oft pour le business (avec W2000). Si le support n'avait pas été abandonné, tout le monde continuerait à l'utiliser. A partir d'XP, on s'éloigne de l'optimum. Les ressources sont dilapidée à des effets superfétatoires. un peu comme si les véhicules utilitaires étaient tous livrés avec lecteur video, vitres teintées, peinture métallisée, fenêtre de toit, jantes alu, pneus sport, wifi, boite auto, fauteuils électriques et chauffants, intérieur cuir et ronce de noyer... en standard... sur une pelleteuse...

    • @doriphor
      @doriphor 6 років тому

      N'importe-quoi! C'est comme si tu nous racontais que la Renault 4 est la meilleure voiture Francaise, et que tous les progrès qui ont été réalisés depuis sont un gaspillage de resources. (Je tiens aussi à souligner que Windows XP est de loin la version la plus moche de Windows. C'est la Fiat Multipla des OS)

    • @srfrg9707
      @srfrg9707 6 років тому

      Olivier Doriath Mauvaise comparaison, les Kangoo ne nécessitent pas un moteur de formule un pour marcher. Et on s'en fout que ce soit moche, je parles d'os pour le business. Pas pour l'entertainment. Seven est une horreur à gérer quand le système automatique de réparation d'erreurs ne peut rien. Et il peut peu.
      Et sinon, la meilleure voiture française est le DS et aucune, aujourd'hui, ne lui vient à la cheville question confort.

    • @TechLeftBehind
      @TechLeftBehind 6 років тому +1

      Autant j'ai de l'amour nostalgique pour XP, mais il y a une raison très importante de passer à autre chose. Le modèle de sécurité à l'intérieur était encore l'approche naïve du monde avant Internet. Il est tout simplement dangereux de fonctionner dans n'importe quel environnement en réseau. La sécurité de Windows 7 et 8 a été progressivement améliorée par rapport à XP, mais ils sont toujours risqués. Même si Windows 10 a de nombreuses failles à détester, la sécurité intégrée dépasse de loin toute version précédente. Vous devez vraiment l'exécuter sauf si vous devez exécuter des programmes avec des problèmes de compatibilité graves.
      (Désolé pour toutes les erreurs que Google Translate a faites, je ne parle pas un seul mot de français ...)

    • @doriphor
      @doriphor 6 років тому

      @Matthew Petry I'm sure we all understand English in an English speaking video's comments section. I wouldn't worry about it too much :)
      @Λογος Même pour le business, Windows 10 est supérieur à XP à mon avis, parce qu'il est plus stable et plus sûr, deux facteurs qui sont très importants dans le monde du business. Bien sûr, 10 utilise (beaucoup) plus de ressources, mais n'est-ce pas naturel d'utiliser les resources mises à la disposition de l'OS? Je souhaterais ajouter que tout environnement professionnel dépense beaucoup plus d'argent sur les salaires que sur le matériel et les logiciels, ce qui signifie aussi qu'il ne nuira pas à une entreprise d'installer un SSD et 8 ou 16 Go de RAM en plus sur leurs postes de travail.

    • @srfrg9707
      @srfrg9707 6 років тому

      Olivier Doriath Google transtlade did quite a good job actualy. Since you said it's a english speaking thread, I will continue in english. My experience with seven is that it's less stable that XP. And when the system is not capable of reparing itself you are left with no other option than prceeding to a complete reinstalation of the OS. It never occured with XP. The ressources are not there for the os to use, but for the apps.
      It's a pain in the back when 70% of the hard drive of your laptop is acctualy used by 10 or seven, forcing you to use an external drive when xp laptops with smaller hdd did well.

  • @DAVIDGREGORYKERR
    @DAVIDGREGORYKERR 6 років тому

    I think that Linux Mint 18.3 MATE 64bit (Sylvia) would be the way to go, then you will have to google "things to do after installing Linux Mint 18.3 MATE 64bit(Sylvia)"

    • @humidbeing
      @humidbeing 6 років тому +1

      It's a Pentium II. Why your suggestion won't work is left as an exercise for the reader.

    • @ErikZarth
      @ErikZarth 6 років тому

      Pentium 2 is not 64 bit. Might want to research the difference between cpu architectures.

  • @brunomoyano8727
    @brunomoyano8727 4 роки тому

    Hablas español ?

  • @nicolek4076
    @nicolek4076 3 роки тому

    All this reminds me of why I dislike Windows so much.

  • @Chriva
    @Chriva 5 років тому

    Of all their stupid inventions, sudo is what I hate the most. time-wasting bs and the hypochondriacs are almost as bad. :P The consequences of running something malicious as sudo is exactly as bad as just running it directly as root. The problem is the user, not the implementation -why make it worse for power users?

    • @CuriousMarc
      @CuriousMarc  5 років тому

      Not a fan of sudo either. I don't think the developers like it either. They were forced into it by the malevolent hacker activity unfortunately. But if you want, you can still enable a root super user account by simply entering a root password: just do "sudo passwd root". It might tell you it does not support it or wants a strong password, but just enter any password and it will work. And after that, when you need to do something, just do "su yourpassword" and voila, you are a super user like in the good old Unix times, no annoying sudo needed. It's a security risk and not recommended of course.