Mesh is the Best Cold Weather Base Layer
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- Опубліковано 8 січ 2025
- Arctic explorers and active Norwegians have know for years that wicking is bad and ventilation is key to staying dry and warm in cold weather. In this video, we explore the history of mesh base layers and the science of why it is superior for active people in cold temperatures.
Brynje USA - www.brynjeusa.com
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Pilgrim Ultralight Highline Framed
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Hammock - Warbonnet Ridgerunner -
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Rain Fly - 13' Warbonnet Thunder Fly and Mountain Fly-
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Tent - Zpacks Duplex -
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Top Quilts-
Hammock Gear O, 20, 30 and 40 Degree Burrows-
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Under Quilts-
Warbonnet Outdoors 40 Degree Lynx Underquilt
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Loco Libre 20 and -20 Degree Ridge Reapers with 900 - fill power goose down - www.locolibreg...
Garmin In-Reach Mini Communicator
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MSR Mini Groundhog Stakes -
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Brooks Cascadia 17 Trail Runners -
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Anker Power Banks -
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Nitecore NU25 Headlamp -
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Hilltop Packs Custom Printed Food Bag -
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REI Magma 850 Hooded Down Jacket (seasonal) -
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Sea to Summit Compression Dry Sack
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Cascade Mountain Tech Hiking Poles-
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Toaks 550ML Cook Pot-
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BRS Stove-
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Toaks Long Handle Spoon-
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REI Rainpants-
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Enlightened Equipment Visp Rain Jacket -
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Appalachian Gear Company Alpaca Hoodie-
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CNOC 2 Liter Water Bag -
currently unavailable
Sawyer Squeeze Water Filter -
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Sit Pad -
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Camera- iphone 14 Pro Max
Ultrapod Lightweight Camera Tripod-
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Noxgear39g Bluetooth Speaker -
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Peak Refuel Freeze Dried Meals
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Down Socks-
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Lite AF Fanny Pack-
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Permethrin-
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Injinji Merino Wool Toe Sock Liners-
www.amazon.com...
Darn Tough Merino Wool Socks -
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Wuru Wool Company - Light Weight Merino Wool Hoodie
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Trailbrush Toothbrush -
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Derma-Safe Folding Knife -
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Salty Britches Chaffing Ointment -
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Pillow Strap -
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Flextail Zero Pump -
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#Coldweathercamping #coldweathergear #warmclothes
Thanks for posting links, I made the mistake of using Google to try and find mesh undergarments but kept getting links to mesh garments appropriate only for the Blue Oyster Bar... Which was not what I was looking for...
I have the Brynje set with the ahoulder and knee flat cloth inserts to avoid mesh pattern irritating the skin when under pressure.
Maybe Brynje should try an 80/20 Alpaca/polyester blend for even more warmth.
It's the best in summer too. It's ideal anytime you will be sweating, which is deep winter or deep summer for me. Contrary to what people say the Brynje mesh isn't warmer, it just helps manage moisture better. In the summer it doesn't make you hotter.
Good for hot, humid conditions (especially + 55% rh) yes. But in hot, dry conditions (especially 35% and lower rh) it's actually helpful to have a water absorbent and holding layer next to your skin (like cotton, tencel, modal, rayon, etc), as it prolongs evaporative cooling. Actually, any of these with also spandex is particularly good (provided the material isn't too thick).
The main benefit of mesh in colder temps btw, is more that it helps to maintain an air gap between your skin and wetted out fabric/material. Once a fabric becomes wetted out, it is far less insulating, as both water and the fabrics material are far more thermally conductive than air. So instead of having that directly on and chilling your skin, you instead have an air gap that never fully/truly wets out in the same way as a more tightly woven or knitted garment does.
Thus it feels a bit warmer and more comfortable for active conditions in the cold (especially as you decrease the activity, cool down, and are waiting for layers to dry). With that said, testing/research shows that ultimately, it doesn't make any real difference to proper layered insulation systems as far as core body temps go. It just temporarily feels more comfortable and less cold. I think that is worth it in and of itself though.
But if you're talking very wet and cold, I would argue that it could make a definite difference. In fact, picture this: Someone has a P.P. mesh baselayer on, with a baselayer type layer over that made of hollow core P.P. fabric that is more tightly woven. Then another P.P. mesh baselayer on over that. Then another layer of hollow core P.P. fabric over that, and then yet another combo of the above over that.
Then another person wearing a conventional layering insulation system. You dunk both people (preferably identical twins about the same weight and metabolic rate) in a cold stream, a cold lake, or the like.
The person wearing the P.P. mesh+hollow core P.P. fabric alternating layers, will get dry _much_ faster and easier than the person wearing a more traditional layering and insulation system. The latter person will have to work much harder at getting and staying dry and warm. They will have to raise and keep their body temp up for awhile to help dry out their clothing system. The person wearing the all P.P. alternating layers will be dry within minutes with moderate activity.
I currently have three pieces of the poly mesh, the t-shirt style, and long sleeved style, both with the pack inlays. Then I have a pair of the men's long underwear. I've had one opportunity to wear them in a sweating situation when backpacking and I got down to only wearing my Brynje long sleeved top on a day in the low 60's and I was still warm. Aside from that, I've been testing my cold weather sleep system (I live in Indiana) with temperatures in the mid-teens the past week and I have been wearing my Brynje under a mid-weight merino wool set and have been very comfortable thus far. I'd like to buy a couple more pieces in the future.
I've been wanting brynje mesh for a couple years now!
A little more history on fishnet garments. They were first used in WWI by some of the English special op troops as well as during WWII. In the 1960's REI had the North American rights to Brynje fishnet tops and bottoms. After poly pro silk weight base layer, came on the market they stopped selling fishnet. Back in the day I wore both the tops and bottoms. Today I wear the poly pro tops and no longer feel the need for the bottoms. Modern poly pro has an antibacterial additive to the poly pro and don't stink. When wearing fishnet, I move the poly pro or merino wool base layer to the mid layer. The mesh fishnet against the skin wicks the moisture away from the skin to the mid layer. The voids in the mess are now moisture free and with a layer on top of the fishnet (mid layer of merino wool) become an added insolation layer against the body. To prevent buildup of the vapor inside the outer shell layer you need a ventilation system that allows the vapor to leave and keeps the heat in. There are several ways to do this. The best way in mild cold is to wear an outer shell that covers the butt and in extreme cold the shell reaching to mid-thigh. The people of the Artic have done this for thousands of years. The vapor goes out the bottom with little loss of body heat. In extreme cold never vent at the neck, always from the bottom. When the temp is not life threating pit zips allow moisture out but at the expense of evaporative cooling of the body. In warm weather fishnet under a ventilating shirt allows for the moisture on the skin moving up the wicking fishnet to evaporate cooling the body. The advantage of a fishnet inner layer and a separate wool mid layer is that give me three options, #just the fish net, #just the wool layer # both the fishnet and wool layer together. When wearing a merino mid layer make sure to treat the garment with Lanolin. Lanolin reduces the amount of moisture the wool can hold (cheap and easy to do, goggle) Sheep do it all the time to keep from getting waterlogged. Another mid layer option to dissipate vapor is to wear an Alpaca wool mid layer. Alpaca wool is naturally water resistant. If you are going to go Old School with fishnet why not dig out your Opinel knife and Seva 123. Three time tested oldies but goodies
@@tomsitzman3952 I love alpaca. Good tip on treating wool.
If one is sensitive to lanolin, you can use jojoba oil instead. Jojoba oil is not well named, because its not really an oil, but more of liquid wax, and unlike most oils and fats, it will not oxidize and get rancid.
(It's also an amazing lubricant, more generally speaking. If more could be produced, it would have made an excellent engine oil base. Unfortunately, it is hard to farm and produce large quantities. I sometimes use it on bike chains).
Perfect! I was wondering about this exact topic just 2 days ago. Thanks for the video explanation. Cheers! 🍻
The mesh baselayer was also endorsed by Borat in 2006.
Most definitely fishnet is the way to go, especially if one is a heavy sweater like myself. I find the short sleeve is all I need down into the 20’s. I have both the merino and poly versions. The merino one chafes my underarms and the synthetic version does not (I think it has to do with the seam?). Between 30 and 40 deg all I need is fishnet base layer and polyester sun hoodie. If windy, add a light nylon windbreaker while hiking. Below freezing add an alpha layer which breathes very well.
I find merino holds too much moisture for me. A merino synthetic blend is much better. Better than merino is alpaca- far superior fabric.
Love me some mesh gear. World of difference.
Wonderful information, a byrne top is on the list of Winter gear to try out. I think this year's purchase is a alpha direct '90 GSM top
I’ve been using a cheap polypro fishnet long sleeve cycling shirt last winter and this winter. My back still gets sweaty under my pack but apart from that area it has performed very well, not getting damp at all during hours of exertion. I wear an alpha direct mid layer and a hard shell over it that I zip/unzip the front and pits as needed to regulate temp.
Maybe one day I’ll try Brynjie, but I feel they’re a bit overpriced. UA-camrs need to do some comparison testing of the cheaper options vs Brynjie to prove to me they are more functional.
One benefit of the Bryjne brand is the type of P.P. material they now use-it doesn't get near as funky as regular P.P. material. Otherwise, there are no real advantages of the more expensive stuff over the less expensive stuff.
I wish those mesh shirts weren't so expensive. More competition in the market is needed
@@jays7318 the polypropylene ones are more reasonable.
There are tons of inexpensive mesh shirts and bottoms out there. Even hoodie ones. I like the nylon-spandex ones, though the polyester spandex ones are ok as well. Just make sure that you look at the pictures well and closely. Some of them are too thin to use. You want ones that use a thicker yarn knit for both spacing and comfort purposes.
While the all polypropylene (I have one of these as well), and mostly merino ones are nice, its not necessary for the material to be polypropylene or mostly merino. I will say that the polypropylene ones from Bryjne are definitely more durable long term though, so it may be that spending extra will save in the long term.
I'm going to be experimenting with adding a silicone coating to my nylon-spandex ones. I suspect it will not only up the dry time, but also the durability.
@@justinw1765 Thank you Justin! Any specific brand suggestions?
@@jays7318 Sure, the hoodie I got was (Genemen).
From "Bay'zos's" aka ancient Greek female warriors.
(trying to keep this from getting "vetoed" by the Y.T. filters).
The internet 'gods' are not allowing and do not allow posting of such commercial information here at this place anymore for some reason.
So I will have to get a little creative to slip it on through.
The Russel Brand was Gen'e'men (no apostrophes). Place has 6 letters and begins with a and ends with n. One of the biggest places around.
40 years ago I had cotton mesh base layer. it worked well. I will try it again in wool?
Fishnets are great. I use them for my base in the military and with all my kit on it's hard to manage moisture. This helps give that gap. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that beanie when you get to try it out.
@@Brewtuhl l love the beanie. Like expected, head stayed warm and not as sweaty.
Thanks for making this video. I have seen others wear these mesh shirts. Quadzilla wears some. I think they are made by a company in Japan. Also expensive but you generally get what you pay for. These look like very well made. Take care
“Quadzilla”? What’s a quadzilla?
Nickname of a hiker, he has a UA-cam channel. Hiked the triple crown back to back amongst other things
@@maxsparks5183 He makes hiking videos of his long-distance hikes. Quadzilla is his trail name.
'Wicking' has gained a weird meaning in outdoor gear.
It actually means 'materials of which wicks are made'; the oil lamp wick that's supposed to just absorb oil.
Wicking has somehow become 'absorbing and transporting sweat outwards' in outdoor terms.
Zero experience with Brynje shirts but I get/like the idea, for winter conditions. And Scandinavian troops use them for a reason.
lots of good info. Maybe we need to change our thinking on things... 🤔
Fabric-wise, would you recommend the merino wool or the polypro fabric? They each have their pro's & con's: polypro wont stretch as much but it could absorb stink. Merino may hold moisture but may stretch with one's body.
Sizewise, I normally fit into large tops without being tight unless its a slim athletic fit. About 5'8", 185 lbs, with a 42" chest & similar 42" belly. (I'm in shape...round is a shape.) Think a large would even fit me or should i size up to an XL like I've had to do with some slimmer garments?
Much obliged.
@@MikeycatOutdoors I’d do the poly just because it is cheaper. As long as you don’t mind it being a little tight around the belly, I’d get a large.
My mom bought me a playboy for xmas back in early 80s. The cover story was about NCAA wearing mesh jerseys.
Perspiration isn't released as a vapor, as the dew point next to your skin makes that nearly impossible. Your body releases a liquid perspiration to cool itself by vaporizing (evaporating) the water. Solid base layers create pockets of higher humidity between your skin and the fabric creating a relative humidity near 100%. The gap in the mesh just moves the water to the next layer where the heat loss isn't at the skin surface.
But it moves the water through the mesh as vapor, presumably. Sweat becomes vapor which escapes through the holes, so you do get the cooling benefit of evaporation.
@Broc-e5n It doesn't need to move sweat as a vapor if you have a hydrophobic fabric with voids. It can just transport via contact with the next layer.
Weird question, but have you experienced any chaffing on the old nips after a while? That’s basically the only thing holding me back on buying mesh. If you know, you know…
@@madt0wn1 not a dumb question. No problems with the merino and chaffing. I have had the polypropylene out but wasn’t real active. Since you are drier, less chaffing.
Well done video. I’ve thought about ordering a top from GGG but the sizing looks really weird. Will you share your height, weight and what size you wear? Thanks!
@@Ray_Here I am 6’, 160lbs. I have a long torso, wide shoulders and long arms. I wear a large. Fits good. They are form fitting, which is good for a base layer.
@ Thank you! We are about the same height and weight so I’ll go with the large.
I did see that garage grown gear had these on sale for cyber Monday and Black Friday. Didn’t get it this time around, but definitely. I’m in the market for these layers!
Love the thorough explanation on how these work!
Their Norway website has a very generous military discount if that helps anyone.
In terms of the base layer torso fit, does it matter from a performance perspective if you get something a little loose, as opposed to something tight to the body that makes you look like a gay 70s stripper?
@@andymytys I prefer the snug fit because I will always have another layer or 5 on top of it. Trying not to look like Ralphie from Christmas Story.
Fabrics treated with silver, fight odors.
Polypropylene can't have silver treatments as the surface energy of P.P. material is too low for most everything to bond to. Silver treatments like Polygiene are applied with, and bonded by the dye, on nylon or polyester fabrics. Polypropylene isn't dyed, but rather a colorant added when the plastic is in the liquid state, before being extruded as fibers. It may be that silver could be added then, but it would be less effective because it would be hard to make sure that the silver ions or particles are on the surface, vs being encased.
I got a long sleeve top with inlays from brynje cyber Monday sale. I tried it on and my girlfriend said I looked like I was going to a gay nightclub.😂😂
Not that there's anything wrong with that...