Some Tough Love for Aspiring Class IV Boaters
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
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I would add in some team skills. If you're boating class IV you shouldn't be going alone, so you need some ability to work in a team. Watching out for each other, communicating unknown hazards, using throw bags for swimmers or stuck boats, checking on each other after swims, and making group decisions.
Yes, absolutely. Thanks for adding this to the comments.
Love yer content....I like how you don't try to FREAK someone out and ditch their confidence but you seem to present your information in a way to maintain people's confidence and at the same time iterate the perils of over exuberance. Good vid
This is great. Thank you, Zach. One thing I would add would be adequate footwear. I see so many people in flip-flops or open-toed shoes, and I've seen a number of broken toes. Shoes can get ripped off quickly in class IV (really any class) water. I would suggest a good pair of snug-fitting shoes that cover the toes and you would feel comfortable with when traversing rocky, jagged, slippery river banks after a swim, for a rescue, for a scout, or just navigating on/off and around your boat.
As a plus-size human I appreciate the honesty, and the tip about wearing the PFD lower.
My older brothers ran the Middlefork in 1959. We rafted some in the sixties, a lot in the seventies and in 83, 84, and 85, did the first raft descents of the South Fork of the Salmon. We didn't have any of the gear you mentioned, and what we had was mostly home made. Now I think I need everything, and there is so much gear and so many people.
Swimming. Swimming! To few people train for swimming. When it happens it can be trivial or catastrophic. I got in the pool at the local gym to swim laps and I was WAY MORE OUT OF SHAPE than I thought I was. You will be shocked at your actual swimming ability.
Thanks for the content! Really like being able to sit down and go through these vids!
I just made the call yesterday to bail on the upper Lochsa after driving 6 hours and camping the night before to get there. The plan was to have 4 people and paddle boat it, but 2 bailed last minute. I thought it would be fine to just run my multi day frame empty, but I'd never run it with that layout before. We did a short warm up of the lower class III section and quickly found out that without a box in front of me there is no effective way to brace my feet and I had almost zero stability in the rapids. That and the 3 empty bays were sketchy. Also, unexpected rains raised the flows to the point where the recovery sections between rapids were alarmingly short. I know from practicing that reflipping the 16' boat with the full frame is possible with one person, but your timing has to be perfect, and that's on flat water.
It sucks to be mentally and physically prepared, but have your setup let you down. That run would have been pushing my limits at lower flows and with an ideal setup. The two being wrong combined pushed it over the tipping point where it didn't feel responsible to continue.
This is only my second season rafting. I credit you Zack and this channel with 90% of the credit for me being able to make an informed decision about the risks on this trip. Your recent high water discussions and continued emphasis on team boating for safety all covered factors I would not have been aware of had I not found this channel.
Thanks for your your post. That was well scripted and you are spot on on your assessments in my opinion!!!
Having run the Lochsa many times, I applaud you for choosing not to go. Better not to go and wish you had than to go and wish you hadn't.
Wel done. It takes a lot of inner strength to bail with all that lead in and prep, when it makes sense to bail. I bet next time you'll ace it! Happy paddling
8:39 “As always, I’m probably wrong about all this stuff.” 😆
Body shape with PFDs is a great point. The bottom
strap on a PFD should be able to catch under the rib cage to prevent getting pulled up. Excellent point about the pear shaped body and leg loops.
This is great. Pragmatic approach to all of it. Weather in Colorado is tricky. 80s and cold water. I'm always tweaking the dress code.
Pin kit, swift water rescue training, if you have a repair kit a small pump would be needed. Before boating class iv, I think people need to have swam class iii, and know how to navigate current with their body.
Love the videos 🤘
I like my YTV for really low volume creek stuff, for easy floats, and for carrying it while packrafting/backpacking (super light and compact). But when the water is any higher than really low volume and things get challenging at all, I switch to my PFD with 22 pounds of float. I really appreciate that extra float
I've watched so many of your videos and every one of them is great. I love your directness. Thanks for all the tips and tricks through all your videos. I'm about to float the middle fork and honestly, I am very grateful for you. I've relied on your stuff for many miles. I just love your vids. You deserve more followers! Cmon y'all give him a follow and a like! Keep it up bud!
Thanks for the support!
Great video. I wonder if he would change anything in the years since this video came out.
I'm learning, but this hit home for me. I swam in a class III this weekend and I was surprised at how little buoyancy there was with my Astral Blue. I had a very hard time staying above water. I'm a good swimmer, but I'm ~210lbs and the river was fast and the rapids were constant.
I'm a believer in high float PFDs. And, they are getting almost impossible to find. Swin vests are cool until you're getting tossed around in a hole and can't get your head above the bubbles to catch a breath!
After a bad swim in Class 4. I realize I need composure, mental fortitude and physical experience . Can study this stuff, get good on oars but when it goes pear shaped its a huge challenge to complete any of the tasks . I could flip re flip yada yads in under blah blah day in the pond lol. Oh man did I get my butt kicked in cold high water lol! Be safevout there!!
You hit on two of in my opinion the most important things for that terrain or any terrain that get severely overlooked a repair kit ( and if you’re using fibreglass or polymer boat to be able to fix fibreglass ) and first aid training there are so many people who don’t value that
Agreed on all fronts... personally, I love wetsuits, additional floatation and padding for rock impacts. That said I've never rafted in a full dry suit, plenty of kayaking in drytops so I get it and I will get a dry suit eventually but till then perfectly happy rocking the neoprene.
I have a farmer john wetsuit and if the water temperatures and air temperatures are appropriate to wear it, I prefer it over my drysuit. It feels less bulky and I can swim better with it. That being said, there is no substitute for a dry suit when it's needed. Having a dry suit really opens up your paddling options. In the PNW you can paddle in the cold rainy season and stay toasty warm if you layer underneath. It's less important if you are only running snow melt runs in mid-summer.
Great vid.
As I have gotten older, I have found I don’t float as high in the water while body surfing. Most life jackets are 16.5 ish. And I feel like 22lbs is better? What is the plus minus of each?
I needed to see this in 2020..lol
Big belly is “fine” except for class four. 😂😂😂
Love the emphasis on physical fitness. Couldn't agree more.
Question: If not the green jacket, then what pfd would you look to? Of the pfd's I've used, the green jacket seems superior by leaps and bounds. Shoulder mobility, rib protection, gear storage, rescue capability, climbing capability. The buoyancy metric may not meet that 22lb benchmark for heavier boaters, but for the average size boater, 16.4lbs feels sufficiently buoyant even with gear. Not trying to discount the nuance in this conversation, or the importance of buoyancy, but I have yet to find a pfd that does the job better than the green jacket. Appreciate the perspective and the videos Zach.
Check out the new Stolquist Descent. You can add flotation in the front.
@@GearGarageTV Will look into this. Thanks for the recommendation
Have you looked at the NRS Zen? Similar design to the green jacket with the clamshell pocket and 18.5 lbs of flotation
@@GearGarageTV They are perpetually out of stock everywhere. I don't raft (I kayak), but I would totally like an additional 5 lbs of floation when stuff gets real. Just sucks to not be able to get it when that's part of what sold me on this PFD.
What’s a good flotation to weight ratio percentage? Example, 16 pounds for a person weighing 175 pounds is 9% of floatation. Is there a general ratio we should try to target on this issue generally speaking?
Your 9% rule sounds pretty reasonable. It does depend on the style of river.
Sorry, off topic but how do you rig your gopro when cat rafting? Perhaps you covered it on previous lesson. When rafting it appears you use a paddle but that won’t work on cat frame.
I use a handlebar mount to attach it to a paddle and rig the paddle to the cat frame with cam straps
Was this post motivated by the recent drowning on the Middle Fork Salmon?
Great video, I have one comment I don’t think NRS frames are a good fit for class IV. There heavy, the towers twist, and are hard on boats. If you have a raft get a Cambridge Frame, if you have a cat boat get a Class V Adventure Gear frame or a Mad Catter.
I see dry suits where I'm at all the time on warm water and 100* days. Always seemed wrong to me in most cases.
Yep dry suits are overkill for warm days with warm water
Let's here suggestions and comments on higher flotation PFDs suitable for active paddling
I use a stohlquist descent and at 230 it floats me well. Btw I paddle OC1 so I swim almost every time. I grew up on swimming teams and learned to paddle in high school. My experience and skill genuinely help reduce the effects of swimming. I'm calm, not afraid and still process to make decisions. I only in paddle III so far but if you can't swim..... You probably shouldn't be on the water.
Keep your kiddos off the river until they can fend for themselves too IMO, no place to mess around for eager dads
As a climber and floater I see way too many inexperienced people trying stuff that's just way out of their league. Get instruction take a class. Just because you have the money to buy all the fancy gear doesn't mean you're qualified to use it. Start small then gain confidence and experience to tackle the larger projects. You dont belong on the lochsa for your first river. You dont belong on a grade 5 for your first climb. Theres a reason why you wont see pear shaped people on such adventures. Unless you're being babysat. It's not entitled or naive it's common sense.
I lIke this video Zach. And I agree.
But you aren't wrong. Entitled and naive maybe, but not wrong.
......um? OK, I have to ask what others aren't. What did you do to your face? There's a story there!!!! I've had a few myself, so I'm wonder what yours is???????