I really dislike these "Why won't you just admit [x]" type questions when used as argumentative tactics. There's a whole lot of oversimplification, projection, and mind-reading happening nine times out of ten with them. It's hardly conducive to any kind of discussion because it just kinda forces the other person to defend a point of view they don't have or constantly reiterate that this misrepresentation doesn't actually represent them. It's similar to the "So you're saying [insert gross hyperbolic misrepresentation for your argument]." Both sides do it, and it's just as headass regardless of who says it. Learn to adequately voice your arguments, people.
@@jamesneese7663 I'm not sure how this has anything to do with my initial comment. There's ways the voice criticisms that don't involve the same level of hyperbole and dishonesty that I see so much from both sides, and I don't think you're trying to rationalize engaging in that hyperbole lol.
The point with the argument is more to state that we don't believe him. We don't buy that he is ignorant about the situation. That said, he probably is more useful in the middle of the road. It is just annoying and it triggers my need to explain obvious things.
I don't think it matters why they are doing it at this point. Fact is they are making changes to these characters that fans don't like, and have been doing do for years now. Taking your customers/fans for granted is a no-no especially when there are so many alternatives out there like manga, Indies, etc.
I tend to agree that “wokeness” is not the only problem but I find the “wokeness” (and to borrow their phrase) the most problematic to me. Seriously, do what you want, talk to who you want, be the channel you want. If people have a problem, they know what they should do… and I hope they know I don’t mean harass.
Being a centrist is good, but even the centrist has to get more motivated because yes, the world is becoming to one sided. You know it's bad when Republicans and Bill Maher are agreeing
Bill Maher is looking out for himself. After years of saying the Right was crazy for pointing this shit out. Now he sees the writing on the Wall? Better late than never I guess? But I was sick of his act years ago. I was a fan of his during his PI days. ( Not anymore )
@@lisaroberts8556 look you might be right, Bill Mahere is a self righteous jerk, who thinks he knows better than everyone else, but there is a trend here of people who usually are opposed to a certain value system starting to see, their way sucks
I think the problem with the big two currently is an overall lack of creative vision, an absence of editorial oversight, and a lot of creators who want to make big changes, (sometimes for reason relating to 'social justice'') but who lack a strong connection to comics, or to the material they want to change, to do it well. For years, my interactions with contemporary comics has entailed me leafing through something in the new releases section, making a sound like Krusty the Clown before he lights up a cigarette, and then purchasing some books that came out in 80s, 90s, or early 2000s. There are people who will say 'Okay boomer [I'm generation X], run along. We don't need you.' Unfortunately, they do. Comic Book Publishers are in a position where they have to find a way of keeping old readers while also ensnaring a new generation. I think a big part of doing that well would be to engage with their IPs on a creative level and then find a way of working the social commentary into a story. Often it feels as though what is pejoratively referred to as a Woke Agenda is allowed to take precedence over storytelling. The end result is either dull; an exercise in finger-wagging; or, in the worst cases, portrays supposed heroes behaving like villains, to the extent that you begin to wonder whether the writers and editors even realise that their characters are evil. I don't mind my buttons being pushed if it's done well. Tell better stories. Find clever ways of putting forward your point of view. It's what good science fiction and fantasy has always done. The problem isn't wokeness per se. It's creative indolence.
I appreciate your “fence sitting” takes a lot, it’s nice to see an analysis of a topic that isn’t an exaggerated hot take formed by interpreting the other side in the worst way.
I think you’re right and wrong here, Perch. You’re right in that individuals working in the big 2 are basically living out their daydreams, pitching comics that embody their own ideals, opinions and stories they came up with while they were still outsiders and now have the chance to manifest as reality. These individuals largely have left-leaning progressive views, because aspiring artists and writers just do generally have leftist views (I know a lot of artists). So the "agenda" here is not so much a formal, written and official thing as it is a drive in each of these individual’s minds to make a mark on the world. Unfortunately, this drive has become so strong and so widely shared that it has become almost an ugly, fascist thing where anyone who disagrees with them is an enemy of progress, less than human and a target for destruction. Still, you can hardly call this an official agenda, because everyone has their own very specific axe to grind and is not likely going hard to bat for others who don’t exactly match up with their goals. But collectively, DC and Marvel are filled with so many of these types of people, who care more about their axe to grind than telling fun and interesting stories (here’s the part you’ve heard a million times before), that there indeed is an unofficial "agenda", which is progressive and left leaning. Each progressive individual champions their own niche (climate change, black representation, gay representation, trans rights, etc etc) and at least pays lip service to others’ niches. And as I said, there’s a collective hatred of anything that they deem to be getting in their way (conservatives, republicans, etc). At this point it’s splitting hairs whether you want to call this an agenda or not; I would say that it effectively is an agenda, but formally and officially is not. However, there is absolutely an official agenda called Diversity and Inclusion, which exists in many very large corporations now and I’m almost sure exists in DC and Marvel (though I don’t work for them so I can’t say for certain). I work for one of the largest toy companies worldwide, and about 2 years ago we officially launched our Diversity and Inclusion initiative. It’s exactly what it sounds like: bring underrepresented groups into our marketing, content and products, showcase them more and try to tell their stories. Thus far it has been far less scary and brainwashed than it sounds; we simply make changes in quantities of our toys, make more toys with varied skin colors and, where video content is concerned, add characters who represent people of color or lgbt. BUT: this is a toy company, where we manufacture a thing that you physically play with, and our video content exists to sell the toy. Contrast this with a comic book which is expected to tell an exciting, interesting story that depends on diverse characters being artfully woven into the plot in an organic way. It’s harder to tell a compelling, gripping story with a diverse cast of characters, where the diversity feels natural and real, than it is to add more brown-skinned toys to a product line. And it doesn’t seem like DC and Marvel are necessarily finding the most skilled storytellers for the job right now. Sorry this was a long post. Basically, progressive agenda is effectively but not officially real in comics. And officially, there is a massive push in large western corporations for Diversity and Inclusion.
While I'm fine with toy diversity, it often also sounds like something no child would really care about. I'm sure children would be more upset over being told "Here is your black G.I.Joe figure, because you are black" while the child says "But this one has the axe. I wanted the one with the rifle". But hey, if toy companies are willing to lose money, they could easily make one of each skin tone for every single He-Man, She-Ra, etc. dolls. That way you ensure diversity options, at the slim cost of needing to produce more toys and more advertisement.
@@linusgustafsson2629 well in my company’s case, we’re in a lucky position where it’s very easy and simple to add more diversity. Not all toy companies have it that easy. I do think having diversity is important, I don’t think many people here are gonna argue against that. I also think we do tend to like seeing characters we can relate to, whether they act or think or look like us. In my company’s case, the main question is, how do we add diversity without losing something iconic about our brand? It really boils down to: have good diversity, but do it well and don’t make too big of a sacrifice in pursuit of it. I’ll admit I hate the feeling that we might be doing this as a result of the pressure from special interest groups, and not because it’s a sound business decision that will help the company financially and also give kids a better product. But I think, at the end of the day, it will work out fine for us specifically. I can’t say the same for other companies, and I certainly can’t say the same for comics, where they seem to be charging off in a direction almost nobody likes.
Yeah I agree with Perch on almost everything, this is one of the exceptions. All these people just happen to get the same bright ideas about there being too many white cis straight males around, because they are bad writers and stuff. They all just happen to form groups together on Twitter and spend the day dunking on conservatives, and insert that stuff into the comics. No Agenda. Just incompetence.
Yea, that is Perch weakness. He thinks there is wokeness with intelligence, but in reality nobody but fools would be woke. Because woke means yelling that black lives matter to a black police officer, while insulting him and wishing him dead. It is a bit like how I've experienced Scott Adams lately. He'll say smart things like "Many people fall for confirmation bias and think only things that match their world view are correct." but then he'll never consider himself likely to fall for that, and considers all his opinions to be unbiased and factual.
It's more a diamond - in the fact it's a multi-faceted issue. (Yes, I could make a crack, but I won't. Diamond's hard) You've gone into exactly how many different avenues; marketing, timing, nonsensical events done ad naesuem, the fact they put creators on 5 issue runs and done, political opinions and social media absorbing people yes... but the pay issues, the paper shortages, the damaged packaging. All of that is hurting the comic industry. It's not just "woke." The big two as much as others do need to coordinate better in a lot of different areas, mismanagement is always going to hurt. That's less "fence-sitting" than pure common sense. Hope you have a good day Perch.
Agenda or not, story still comes first. The manga Boku Dake ga Inai Machi wears its anti-cop agenda on its sleeve, you can't miss it while you're reading. But ya know what? This manga still delivers a thrilling mystery, it still writes fully fleshed out characters (especially the villain, oh my, what a great villain), its mind game plot is smart and nail-biting. That's what gets a pass grade, not the [UNSOLICITED OPINIONS ON ISRAEL???].
Ahh, the period where I began to loath female centric books, thanks Angela and mockingbird [ASK ME ABOUT MY FEMINIST AGENDA], nothing like activism in my escapism to make it more enjoyable.
The manga Vinland saga is incredibly anti violence. From what I hear in Japan cops are incredibly useless because they only go after cases they are 90% sure they will win.
@Comics and Finance All the police does is arresting the wrong men that the villain gift-wrapped for them. By the fact that all the framed men got convicted and that we (the readers) know those men were not guilty, we can infer that the police did not give those men due process. The police's pattern of charging the convenient suspects is so consistently reliable that the main villain is able to get away with literal murders for more than a decade by relying on the same behavior. (In the original timeline) Not one police officer for 10+ years ever questioned how kids of the same age bracket keep getting kidnapped and killed every now and then, yet they find a completely different suspect each case. Even in the final timeline, the villain confessed to everything so the police didn't even do one day of investigation on him. Satoru did all the work foiling his final attempted murder and catching him red-handed, with zero help from the police. An implication of the time travel plot is that in the original timeline, the villain continued getting away with murders, the police still hunt down wrong men and it was only through the miracle of time travel that Satoru could expose him. In other words, the message is: If this was real life where no such miracle exists, the police will continue enabling injustice forever. To twist the knife a little further: There is zero "good cop" in the story. No shade of gray about it. All cops are bad people.
Anti-cop or recognizing that not all cops are good. Because people in the west are more the former than the latter. At least the crazy people are. I think we should get rid of all the guns and go back to swords and bows and maces. Sword are much better than guns. Guns are just so uncivilized. Do you know what I'm doing here?
@@jamesneese7663 the problem isn't having these types of characters but the fact that they are so close together is so fucking stupid. Let these characters breath apart from eachother but that's something DC doesn't understand
I dunno, Perch. It’s weird but there’s something to it.🤷♂️ I’m blue collar and have conservative values to balance my liberal ones and everything is so one-sided. I truly believe that activism is opposite of escapism. And whomever is in charge keeps pushing these things into entertainment. It feels like it’s going to some plan. Barley any of this stuff is fun and entertaining. Which is the point of our fictions. Again, I love you stuff, P. Cheers.
There is undeniably a liberal bias in comics, but I don’t think it is coming from within the comic industry itself, I think it’s just a bleed-over from mainstream media & social media. Kind of following which way they think the cultural wind is blowing.
@@codygatlindesign I see it a little more pervasive and entrenched. 30 years ago when graduating high school, my AP English teacher warned us about the advent of PC Political Correctness on the college campuses we were all heading to. This mindset IMHO has morphed into the derisive term “Woke” today yet its intention is the same. It’s in all the publishing houses, it’s in all entertainment productions, it’s in grade schools and we see it’s impact in modern-day colleges too. They hire from elite colleges & only hire each other and like minds. Pity the talent who cuts across their grain (see Gina Carano🤷♂️). I’m a blue collar, Union strong, Hs grad who flunked out of his first year in college🤷♂️. So being in The Middle & from the South Boston Projects? All I can see is this same pervasiveness everywhere. Yet is “Middle America” buying it? I don’t think so. Yet it’s being offered as the only choices for current entertainments. It will take financial failure in order to correct this. It’s trying to use our escapism as platforms for didactic learning moments. It’s soooooo obnoxious & haughty. I truly reject it.
@@codygatlindesign The "cultural wind" seems to be going toward 100% social awareness 100% of the time. In that situation, just wanting some popcorn fun is morally suspect. I've said so so many times, it's not a set of liberal ideas or liberal bias, it's the idea that there can be no neutral spaces and no neutral hobbies or interests because even the suggestion that a neutral/common space should exist erases some person, excludes them, because their "identity is political" and not wanting that every moment of every day is not wanting *them* to even be alive. Which sounds ridiculously hyperbolic, but unfortunately it's not. People can be dedicated liberals with traditional liberal ideas without being that weird.
@@EricOSullivan I fully agree, I was just trying to find common ground with Perch in saying that this "wokeness" didn't start in comics necessarily, but it certainly is being pushed by comics full-hog now. I reject it as well, being a southern Christian from small-town NC (but with an Architecture education and a high IQ), most of these modern comics don't interest me or represent my values at all. I see the "culture war" as being urban populations vs. rural populations, more than a specific racial, class or political divide... Although these differences are highlighted in the differences between urban & rural populations. Think about it, most of the media comes out of like 3 major cities/areas; New York, Hollywood, & Silicon Valley. People living here can't relate to the rest of the population, and probably don't want to!
@@JuliePascal Agree. Somewhere along the way mentally-ill people co-opted a legitimate political party and transformed it into their own image. Now they operate in this upside-down misery loves company mindset, where anyone who just wants to live their life and be a normal person, must be targeted to either be indoctrinated into this toxic identity-politics worldview, or "cancelled" as a lesson to all of the people who don't fall in line. It's gross, but my strategy has been to just make sure that I have skills & a work-ethic that makes me "un-cancelable" so that I can continue to just say whatever I want without fear of any blowback... So far so good.
On one hand, the anti-SJW crowd errs in the direction of over-maximizing how much of what's wrong with comics is due not only to wokeness but also to systemic or (to use your term) "concerted" wokeness. It isn't 99% like the person who wrote you assumes, nor is the wokeness systemic or "concerted" per se. But on the other hand, and with all due respect, you tend to over-minimize the role that wokeness plays somewhat. One way you do that is by separating wokeness as a factor from a more generalized insularity, complacency, lack of ambition, and lack of competence within the comics industry. But I don't think the separation makes sense. The recourse to wokeness is itself a sign of insularity, complacency, lack of ambition, and lack of competence in comics, just as it is in every other creative and intellectual field, including my own field of the academic humanities. "Creatives" and "intellectuals" (and I use those terms in his context with heavy irony) who go woke do so because they *can't* do anything else (because they lack the capacity) and/or because they *won't* do anything else because they're too lazy to put in the work required to grapple creatively or intellectually with real human ambiguities and complexities, even as in this case, within the relatively limited scope of a superhero comic book. Wokeness is a kind of creative and intellectual "life-hack" for people who aren't up to speed and need hacks to get through life. And this is why wokeness appeal to people who are hacks themselves in terms of the work they do. Tom Taylor is a case in point. Prior to going fully woke, he had already shown himself to be a hack comic writer par excellence, if you'll excuse that oxymoronic way of putting things. His life-experience is too insular, he is too complacent, and he is too lacking in ambition and competence to write superhero characters in their archetypal forms. So he resorts to "creative" hacks of different "deconstructive" or "subversive" sorts and transforms the superheroes he's hired to write into characters he *can* write, characters within the scope of his limited abilities: first supervillains, then zombies, and now generic SJW stereotypes from woke-approved identity groups like the LGBTQ+ bloc. So on the one hand, wokeness is more of a problem than you allow. But on the other hand, the problem with wokeness is the way that it serves as a "solution" -- a short cut or hack -- in relation to the more fundamental problems with comics that you are right to note. And everything I've said about Tom Taylor could equally be said of Daniel Cherry and numerous others at both DC and Marvel. Cherry *can't* think of anything to do with the DC properties except make them woke because -- to put it bluntly -- he's not smart enough. Or he *won't* think of anything else to do because -- to put it bluntly -- he's too lazy. Either way, you get hackery, with wokeness as the default form such hackery takes at the present time. If you're looking for the easiest possible way to make your way through a creative or intellectual field at the present time, i.e. the path of least resistance, then wokeness is the way you want to go; it's the life-hack for you, if a hack is what you are.
Long time listener. I have to admit there is something to the point of the email and I think the way this video was structured rather supports the point. Perch, you took the argument that there is an agenda/bias exhibited by comic artists (which I believe exists) and instead of answering it straight on you raised it to the level of official corporate policy (which I believe may not explicitly exist, although based on what I've seen recently with Robin and Superman's son it actually may) and then argued against its existence as such (I believe the term is reductio ad absurdum, although I stand to be corrected) while downplaying the fact that individual artists do have such agendas and incorporate it in their art (and for some reason the fact that they get paid too little is an excuse of sorts?! lost me on that one). I do appreciate the level headed approach you take to analysing the industry but I have to admit I have also noted that on occasion you do make a bit too much of an effort (in my eyes) to gloss over what the problem really is. Nevertheless, keep up the good work and I'll keep listening.
To me, the way it is often described (people claim they aren't saying it, but they usually are) is that the agenda is "being pushed from the top" which is what I flatly disagree with for the reasons I go into. I do believe that you have individual creators that bring their pet interests/beliefs (and here's where I would never call that an agenda, but I suppose others might) and run with them. There's a huge gap between the two and it's less of a nuance than a massive difference. I think many people want to hear "it's an agenda against me" very directly... and my goal is to present a case that it's just not that simple. But I also wonder... is there any point to driving the argument? You need to be able to knock on a door that can open.
Perch, in all honesty, if there *isn't* a "conspiracy" at DC to make their characters gay then there's just a lot of people working there that fetishize homosexuals. Which is actually far creepier.
There isn’t a conspiracy. What there is instead is groupthink among an insular, parochial monoculture of people most of whom are not gay themselves but who, for reasons that escape me, are absolutely, positively obsessed with homosexuality and now transgenderism too. You find this phenomenon everywhere left-liberal creatives and intellectuals are found. In comics, it’s creepy because of the fan fiction of “shipping” and “slashing” that’s now making over mainstream comics in its pornographic image. But most other places, it’s not creepy, just weird.
Bad outcomes do not mean that there is no agenda. Incompetency does not mean that there is not malice. You're a smart person Perch so i dont know how you came to this decision. I also agree the clear woke agenda is not the entire issue. It's like 70% and it makes the other 30% like it's hard to get the product, bad editorial and the product is too expensive impossible to fix. It's like having a boat sinking but you want to fix the compass. There is a clear issue going on here and it effects everyone. We all are getting dragged into the politics because of one side.
This is my favourite channel on UA-cam. Well thought out, fair and nuanced arguments which are a pleasure to listen to. You're wrong about one thing tho Perch: a lot of us did want to hear more about you from the interview from SGM. Keep up the great work, and please keep the channel going👍👍👍
The fact that this channel is a hobby probably makes it easier for Perch to be fully honest. Can't tell you how many content creators I used to follow were just journal folks until money started rolling in and they clearly made either a conscious or unconscious business decision to primarily appeal to one extreme side or another. (Dave Rubin anyone?)
I recently started watching Boruto. They handle the life lessons part very well. In one episode, they had a stalker. It ended with the boy doing it actually learning something and becoming a better person. They didn't just beat him up.
Folks can be unorganized to have an agenda. The comics that have been coming out of the big two appears to have the same themes. Such as, GBT stuff and present day politics. Really on the noes too. The big two have admitted multiple times, the reason why they are changing these characters. Which is representation. That is an agenda. The idea isn't totally wrong, but how they are executing the agenda is. Instead of treating them like a straight or fair skin person, to where their sexuality and race dosen't define them. They use their sexuality or race as a gimmick. Honest, I don't believe anything of what Talyer said along the lines of, "I always wanted to tell these kinds of stories." I call bull because he could have did some indi work or find someone who would take a risk. He's activating his defense card from the GBT community. Everyone have their perception of things. Thus, it dosent bother me if others perception dosen't align. It sucks at times, but meh.
"The idea isn't totally wrong," the idea is actually mostly right. Which makes it impossible to usefully critique where it goes wrong because of motte and bailey and everyone either broad brushing it or pretending that it's been broad brushed and that the complaint is about "representation" instead of what is being done with it. So is the "representative" character being treated like a "white-cis" character? Generally, no. Because if a character "represents" me in a story, in a movie, in a comic, I'd prefer that she's not a b*tch. So the edges get smoothed out, the character made appealing or even admirable. Which is why I think that Perch is wrong. A "representative" can't develop into the arch nemesis. Even if that would be exceedingly good story telling and wondrously interesting. A "representative" can't even be just a little selfish or b*tchy like a real person might be. When we see a "representative" character acting like a flaming *ssh*ole it's always as if she (usually she) is 100% justified and righteous to treat other people like sh*t. SMH
@@JuliePascal I disagree with him a bit aswell. There is definitely an agenda going on based on the patterns and consistency of how entertainment is being pushed. However, he see this situation differently, thus I can't fault him for it and would never do so. The world is huge, different ideas and things circulate. Not the mention, we are not Jean or Professor X thus we can't truly know what folks are thinking. My assumption is based on what I have been seeing and there is a clear pattern for me that are simular to old movements. Hopefully this passes and we see a different change that isn't so aggressive.
GBT? Do you not like lesbians or do you just think that it's stupid that homosexual women have their own term while gay isn't specific to men or women, just homosexuals. That's what I think.
@@Anti-HyperLink I don't have a problem with them. They are fine. I don't think the terms should be sperate to the gender/sex. Homosexuality used to refer to just being gay. Atleast in my experience. No matter male or female. I understand the history around the term lesbian referring to the lesbo island, but we should stop categorizing people honestly.
I have been into comics since I was 5 (1972), and I can tell a lot these writers and artist do not care about the characters or comics in general, you can tell when writer or artist cares about something, there is passion in the words and in the art, a lot of artist and writers of the past grew up reading comics, now it seems they hire anyone they can get on the cheap and give zero F's about comics or the history of them, something you can see when reading many of the modern comics. A lot of the blame is on the corporations that own DC and Marvel, they put people in charge that are not qualified, and cannot hire people that can tell a story about social issues without beating it over your head, and just swapping sexual preference or race for no good reason, Robin is gay this month, next month Jon Kent, oh in November Catwoman will come out as bi, and December Martha Kent, just to get a headline nothing more, and I am a life long Democrat and I can see this as just over the top pandering to people who will never buy the comic anyway. In the 80's when you had a group that tried to censor and push their beliefs on people, they were called the moral majority, and I didn't like them either. As Stan Lee said. ua-cam.com/video/L6RROB0s4Ps/v-deo.html
Perch, you do have one of the larger and higher-engagement Comics UA-cam channels. And I was definitely introduced to people like Nancy Collins and Joe Corallo and Kaare Andrews from your channel (and then went on to buy and read their comics). Sure, I don’t think Ron Marz’s profile will be elevated. But you do give some visibility here.
Just because someone is bad at their agenda, doesn't mean there isn't one. Granted that agenda is more about money and fame than anything else, and that belief that all these new readers will show up one day and old fans are inconsequential, then they get caught in a sunk cost loop in their heads.
I will respectfully disagree, though I respect your opinion. Your channel is not one to complain about the "agenda" or "message". But, this wokeness is just endemic of a larger symptom of illness in our society.
I hear you and do agree to an extent. That said, I think if it was just 'woke' it wouldn't be as rough. It's that plus the heavy handedness, ignoring character history, subpar art, retcons, focus on food over fights. If it had woke elements but still had the essential heart of a comic book we might be able to digest it without vomiting.
The agenda problem isn't with the people fumbling around at the bottom, it's with the people at the top and (more specifically) the major investors who select them. When almost every major publicly-traded corporation is marching in lockstep, it's not an accident and I wish more people would realize that, whatever their reasons may be, it's for the benefit of those who own those corporations and not for people like us.
I'm only two minutes into the video and , ".. why do all the things we love go away..." hits pretty hard, man. I think that's the way most, or at least a lot of us feel right now when we see the IPs we grew up with being retooled without respect to the source material for a generation that doesn't really care anything about it.
I like having you as a calm, informed voice. Don’t change. I think many industries are being ruined by leftist ideology, and the grownups aren’t reigning in the petulant children.
I first started watching your channel back when you had the little guitar intro and titled videos with episode numbers. I was initially attracted to your history videos, and some weird ones stick out in my mind like your one about trading cards, weirdly cut comic covers, and creator feuds. But I feel like I've learned a lot about the business on all levels. I love your analytical take on things, even if I disagree with some of it. I admit I have earned some sympathy for creators when you've explained how little they make, how they seem to be hanging on to work by little, and the somewhat chaotic business they are in. I just wish they would understand that they are alienating a lot of their audience by inserting personal politics in seemingly all. Even if it isn't all comics, I think you can see why some people can believe that they have an agenda. Even a poorly laid out and disastrous one. Honestly, people are just tired of all the political fighting and people on all sides would do well to just keep their beliefs to themselves. It doesn't make those beliefs any less, it just, IDK. Not every single thing has to be a battlefield. And DW about those livestreams. They are just trying to make cults out of their followers to sell books.
It doesn't matter if you make them gay or bi, the (extreme/far) right-wing can't tell the difference. Probably can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground, either, which is kind of ironic maybe and I didn't plan it. Are they two different wings of the eagle that is Amurica? Bi the way (ahaha puns), I don't know this for sure, but I can only imagine there are some far left people who don't like bisexuals because they're not gay enough. Surely there are people who just blanket hate straight people. So there'd be gay people hating bisexuals for the same but opposite reason as the straight people hating them. But... "We do have a lot in common. The same Earth, the same air, the same sky. Maybe if we started looking at what's the same instead of always looking at what's different... well, who knows?" - a good kitty.
Those people who want to have a channel crusading againt the woke agenda are welcome to create one. Most of us who follow your content do so because you genuinely love comics and so do we.
Hey... there hasn't been an comic where Lex Luthor grows back his orange hair, gains a few pounds, and runs for president again for the first time, and after a battle where Superman fights Doomsday which leads to half of Metropolis being destroyed, Lex promises America that he'll build a wall around the Earth to protect them from aliens, and he'll make the Kryptonians pay for it... ! Wait, in LoSh, if it takes place in the future, and in real life, the world become more progressive, wouldn't that mean in the 30th or 31st century, gender wouldn't exist anymore? Or rather, wouldn't any reference to gender be considered offensive? What's the deal with Saturn "girl" and Lightning "lad"??? Shouldn't it be... Saturn person? Lightning person? And you're telling me the Legion was inspired by a SuperMAN? LoSh gets cancelled, and the charge was led by none other than the Fatal Five-- their most successful campaign against the Legion yet!!!
woke is pretty harmless but bad stories can easily kill lots of comics. I noticed woke since the bronze age with characters like Mal Duncan, black lightning, Vixen, Vibe, gypsy, yolanda montez, dr beth chapel, katana, kimiyo hoshi, etc.
Perch I disagree. There IS people in comics that don't love comics. They (SJW's) didn't come to work in comics for the love of the characters, stories or history. They (SJW's) infiltrated the comic industry to CHANGE culture using comics and the characters everybody else loves. These writers and editors made their intentions clear on social media. It may not have been people like Jim Lee's plan to do this. But Jim Lee MUST go along with it because he knows, you know and everybody knows if he tried to stop it his ass would be cancelled by groups like Gail Simone's Whisper Network faster than a speeding bullet! Why do you think it's called a Culture War?!? #WelcomeToTheRebellion #CancelWokeHollywood
My problem with a lot of comics is the “ripped from the current news cycle headline” topics and the manufactured *diversity and representation* (“It’s good, because it’s diverse!”). For $4-5 an issue, Im not buying it anymore. Examples like Tom Taylor’s Xmen Red garbage and Jason Aaron’s whole premise of Jane FosThor aka Queen Padme Amidala of Asgardia. When it’s soooo clear there was something pulled from watching too much CNOnion, or just “hey what do I do here…i guess ill just steal something from a movie I am watching” its lazy, lazy, lazy writers ruining my enjoyment of comics for the most part.
There is definitely an ideological motive here. It doesn't have to be an agenda (although that's not too far-fetched at all), but it could be just that most people who work in the industry in these big companies have an ideological motive, which the current climate encourages. So for these creators, it's a win-win for, they can make comics and get paid for it and at the same time "send a message" "and be part of something" and be praised for it (at least from "critics" and journalists and even the people at the company they work for itself). What you should ask is, what are the chances if a creator makes a comic that has some right-wing message, that it will be approved and published by these big companies (if they don't have an agenda). Let's say superman son goes to a trump rally (not as satire but to promote the politics with all seriousness) ???
An ideological motive is an agenda. An agenda is just a to do list. And we know they won't do the right wing thing since they black balled all the CG guys. Heck a more recent example. They black balled Joe Bennet for a right wing political cartoon he drew for another country.
Not only is it a clear agenda, it is a literal conspiracy. Activist groups make demands for an identity politics checklist and in response the companies then have meetings on what they have to do to minimize Twitter and tumblr complaints.
Yes. It's less a case of the bigwigs at the top passing down decrees, as it is creators at the bottom thinking they're participating in some 'popular' grassroots activism. Who knows how those at the top view it: somewhere between indifference (who cares about comics as long as the MCU is making bank) and fear of being branded bigots if they try to course-correct. So you end up with the tail wagging the dog, so to speak.
@@jprocha1570 i couldn’t get thru it. Donated the tpb hoping some kid would appreciate the art (Ryan Sook?) and at least read it once, then i bought An Eye for An Eye by Levitz and Giffen
Your hobby keeps me healthy. Thanks. The apologies sometimes make me grind my teeth, but by the end of the video I walk away with more knowledge than I had before. Good job, thanks again.
There's no agenda, there's just a conglomeration of dummies, cowards, advertisers, useful idiots, and true believers. Can you even discuss any concept of biological sex without getting your channel struck, without it reflecting poorly on your guests? Why is it more important to make the distinction whether it's an agenda or not?
I come here because I get leveled information. When you lean to far either way you tend to lose people engulfed in their own ideology. That's what happened to news media and articles...just giving us a bunch of opinions when people just simply want "just the facts man"!
With the Jonh Kent boyfriend thing, I thought for a moment "they are showing that he is an activist that is invulnerable to damage" and was thinking, what if he get tired of doing stuff "the pacifist" way with marches, he nags to John about "with thouse powers you could make a huge change and you do nothing", so he start doing really bad things that could be consider terrorism, and can't be stopped because is invulnerable, and not even Jonh can stop him because the emotional toll and because the guy is invulnerable to physical attacks. Do the writter have to come up with a clever plan of "how will superman save the day from this". But like it was said, it could be just so the boyfriend is not a "damsel in desgrace" and they do nothing with him. Which I think is what will be
When SGM "interviewed" Perch... the video ended up being... about Sean... 0_0 What if in 2024, just in time for the election, Marvel comes out with CIVIL WAR HULK. There's red hulk, who says HULK BUILD WHITE PICKET FENCE!!! Then there's blue hulk who says HULK TEAR DOWN FENCE!!! And last but not least, there's purple hulk who says HULK SIT ON FENCE!!!
The most likely cancelation I’ll face is self cancelation. I’ve already been called out by the big names on both “sides” and the biggest threat to continuing is boredom.
Haha, na. When SGM interviewed you, it was really interesting to have someone ask you direct questions and you answer them. If there’s no “woke cabal” that is much more frustrating and intractable. Whatever the reason, the results are fewer and fewer well written books. Fewer books I want to buy. It’s a downer. Just feels like these companies (intentionally or not) are punishing people for being long term fans of these characters. Anyway, back to the manga stacks.
From what I've seen it's just more a simple case of bad management. The group editors don't know how to do their jobs. The people in charge of the schedules are failing miserably at their jobs. And even the people in charge on collections are failing too. As Chuck Dixon said "They don't know how to work in publishing."
Perch, Shane's baby came a week early. The doctor sprung it on them at their appointment. So he probably was going to speak to you... but plans changed. :)
Publicity. Headlines. A temporary spike in sales. And ultimately nobody at Warner Media really cares about the long term impact of a comic about Superboy.
@@ComicsPerch this is the real problem with DC and Marvel. They don't really care about comics. They are each part of a larger entertainment conglomerate. These days they are as much a comic publisher as Nintendo is a playing card company. The future of comics lies with the indies.
Yep. This new Superman: Son of Kal-El is like the Death of Superman 2021 moment of fame. The sales bump is likely orders that will go into stock rooms and sit for months or years, while retailers try to convince anyone its somehow “valuable”
@@ComicsPerch Agreed but you’re overlooking a plausible factor: the consequences of not allowing it, and even worse, criticizing it in that hypothetical Zoom call. When people throw out ideas for consideration the possibility of someone saying “that’s dumb” or “boring” or “cliched” usually exists which pushes people to promote well thought out ideas and be able to defend them. People are very hesitant to do that over ideas like Taylor’s, especially in this industry, given the likelihood the comments will be put out on Twitter, perhaps in captured Zoom video, and the critic will be ostracized. So proposed lazy or poorly timed (e.g. Robin & Superboy) “woke” ideas sail through shielded from needed creative criticism. An editor’s only alternative is to not hire writers with track records like Taylor’s or jumping on another idea that might not be much better before a socially woke idea gets presented. No matter what, the editor’s potential pool of possible ideas is impoverished.
As I said before I like how you take a more objective and often middle stance and are not afraid to point out flaws on both sides whether it's left or right heck nobody really knows where you stand because of that. Many of these UA-cam channels always attack the left and can often be dismissed as just being right wing when you think about it but that's one argument they can't use against you objectively.
I see comics today beign run with a mix of barely competent (and sometimes not even that) , nepotistic, spiteful creator, editorial and management teams for whom keeping evertyhing from completely falling apart is already an achievement but they try to do more than they are capable of (i.e. expanding the market place) and they can't successfully pull it out and thus hurt what they are already have as a result - and the culture climate makes that any one who tries to stand up to the idiocracy is going to get shouted down, harrassed and deplatformed. That said, it's hard to not see some sort of coordinated effort when this moronic crap only gets worst and incompetent people keep failing upwards the command chain - even it's just a series of Stand-Alone Complexes supported by the the generalized stupidity that took over the industry when the old heads decided it was time to retire or move into more lucrative fields. Still, this moronic crap is tiresome and has already gotten old fast - not only this resulting product is bad but I have no interesting in supporting garbage from people who made it pretty clear through their words and/or work that they hate me.
@@ComicsPerch That is disturbing on a lot of levels. The pay issue is easy enough to understand, but why aren't they given sales numbers? To an outside observer that seems very counterintuitive.
There's room for both, media that provides escapist fantasy to enjoy and media that provides social and political commentary whether subtle or in your face. However, there are media that are able to balance both concepts and do it well, with the right writer. A perfect example of this is Osamu Tezuka's Astro Boy manga. One of the manga's main themes is the shaky human-robot relations, which was used as an analogue to tackle racism. However, it also had some good old fashioned adventure stories where Astro took on foes ranging from criminals, rogue robots, aliens and even giant insects.
The way you pitched Jonathan Kent being bisexual thing and that whole thing sounded great. If only DC executed it like that. Didn't they rush the relationship and make it really stupid?
To be fair the guy has a point if you think about it. And this video proves it. What this dude in email or whatever can do is watch the other part of this channel that doesn't touch those topics.
The people who want me to “admit an agenda” sound remarkably like the people who want to “force woke speech”. It’s amazing how the side that claims to fight against being coerced to a particular mindset can absolutely not handle ANY disagreement.
@@ComicsPerch i would fully admit you are right. Except all your giggles and simirks and little laughs on literally every video you make when you reach those topics. And please don't tell me is that what you are like. I don't care if you admit anything. It interests me as much as a last year's snow. But even listening to your "review" on solicitations you would have to be deaf to not see the undercurrent of I dunno disdain? Pity in your voice on any of those. If you want to be neutral fine. But you seriously need to step it up and cut on it. Just because you don't use the actual word doesn't make it any better than literally terrible sites like Yellow Flash. Maybe even worse. Concealed disdain is worse than open. And it shows. Even in this video. Sorry mate. It's the pot calling the kettle. I'm sorry. You don't need to do anything. That is wrong. Just I personally don't understand why are you surprised really
@@MisterLuu I find issues across the board… which is what I talk about a lot. The issues can’t all be conveniently grouped into one bucket labeled “woke”. I find being lighthearted about it gets me through it. If that doesn’t appeal to people, and they would rather have full-throated victim rage… it’s their party.
10:31 yes Perch, i actually think this is what is happening with the hacktivist guy...is manipulating Jonathan to have a OP being on his side against his goverment
I think it had 100% to do with money and keeping trademarks and avoiding paying royalties. They couldn't copywrite truth justice and american way so they changed it. When does Superboy, Superman or any other DC character become a threat to DC in becoming public domain? Why not change it just enough so they can claim the new version?
Which live channels are those that bash Perch? Asking for a friend. ;) Regarding the question in the video. Obviously the comics isn't dying because of woke agendas. The wokeness is just the sort of parasites that attack weak and old animals. But my problem with the fence-sitting is the balance between who is to blame. You can't say that both are equally wrong when one side is those that started and is driving the conflict. I get that it is a useful attitude to take, but still.
It’s not “balanced” between sides, it’s calling out the issues as they arise. Too many people (who do have an agenda) want to ignore the actual issues in favor of promoting their tribe… usually because their tribe is guilty of some of the same things. Focusing on the issues is cleaner.
@@ComicsPerch Sure both sides act shitty, but the creators are those that have the power to stop the conflict. The fans are powerless and can only whine. It is a conflict between one side that is ideologically motivated (or rather sadistic in many cases) and one side that is emotionally motivated because they love the characters and react to the treatment. The fans can only end the conflict by giving up the love for the characters, the creators can end the conflict by stop being d*cks. You know "with great powers come great responsibilities". A single fan can't make a difference but a single creator can change everything, but they chose to create conflicts.
@@kulturkriget The dynamic is not unlike the one in play when kids who are picked on in school are punished as much and sometimes more for standing up for themselves than their bullies are punished for picking on them to begin with. It matters who's playing offense and who's playing defense and it's ultimately more incumbent upon those who started a culture war to end that war that it is on those who were attacked, though granted both sides should do a lot more than either one generally does to be pacific and de-escalate things.
@@kulturkriget I think most of his point of view is that playing the blame game and pointing fingers isn't really productive. I don't think he's even saying both sides are equally to blame. He's just evaluating EVERYTHING with a critical eye regardless of who it comes from. I don't think that's fence-sitting. I think that's just an aversion to tribalism. This is why there's an emphasis on attacking the issues rather than attacking a side. One's a lot less tribal and more logically consistent than the other. You have no idea how frequently I hear the same shit in different words coming from the pro-customer side as I hear from the pro-industry folks. And I think I appreciate this approach more because a lot of the other youtubers just pick a side and report from their own angle to appeal to an audience and fuel their own narrative (whether this narrative is fact or fiction is irrelevant). Gonna also add that just because one side has power over the other doesn't mean that the out-of-power party is absolved of responsibility when BOTH act like children. Ain't saying both do so just as much as the other, mind you. But it's still worthy of consideration regardless.
@@TheVanillaQueen Yeah, it isn't productive, but it ain't going anywhere until the leftists either stop attacking and provoking or the fans fall out of love with the comics. But he gives an unfair description of the fans/critics position. No one is claiming that there is a secret cabal planning anything, it is agenda driven narcissistic individuals that act in unison because they are fanatics. I also think his description of the left are way to forgiving but that is ok, I can see the rhetoric point there. And I don't think the conflict is the issue, I think the behavior of the creators is the issue. But as you say the focus on the conflict is probably more productive, but it is also fence-sitting to avoid speaking openly about the real issue. It might be wise, but that is a very sad fact that dishonesty is the wiser move. Yes, both side has a responsibility, but that is if you focus on the participation in the conflict as the issue. The real problem, and the issue I think should be in focus, is the creation and upholding of the conflict in the first place and that is 100% the fault of the creators. They can end the conflict at any point by stop attacking, provoking, and instead apologies for their behavior. The fans can't do that, they are just upset and angry over the treatment.
I'm glad you've distanced yourself from this culture war foolishness,because you consistently give the most level headed and original takes on comics news. It's refreshing to hear opinions that don't just boil everything down to simplistic right vs left narratives.
Is that an old comic book with Cap saying he fought Hitler not because America was great, but because it was fragile? Do people not like that part? Isn't calling America fragile anti-patriotism? Or does patriotism mean knowing when your country has fallen and fighting to bring it back up? That's not even what the video is about, and obviously no one can answer those questions as I'm typing this, but I think my perspective on some things just changed.
Personally I am tired of the word agenda in everything because frankly it’s just getting frustrating to the point and personally all I care about is seeing a story and plus comic book stories had political stuff before so this ain’t anything new so why it’s a problem now I have no idea but that’s just my opinion.
Late to this one, I know but the algo got my attention. Here’s my two cents: Perch, I think these writers suffer from wanting to be in Hollywood so bad and only see comics as a way to get up there. So they don’t put the care needed in order to make something great. It’s like with video game journalists who REALLY want to be political journalists on CNN but just can’t make the cut. They see these niche pulp pop culture groups as a shortcut and quite frankly, it’s disrespectful.
I can go to any other channel and hear about the agenda. I like this channel mostly because it talks about the other issues with comics outside the agenda while, honestly speaking, not shying away from kt either but saying theirs multifacets to the problem. Just because you take one tumor off the patient doesn't mean therea not ten others we need to operate on too.
@@ComicsPerch Those cliches are used so often exactly because so many people noticed that they're 100% accurate. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then its probably a duck. Unless you're the kind of cynical, opportunistic prick who likes to play dumb and pretend its not a duck to benefit from playing both sides. But hey its working! your channel *is* growing. Good luck to you I say. Just don't expect to fool everyone.
@@ComicsPerch If the situation is as you described it, with writers doing whatever they want. Then that means the company is basically broken and there exists no chain of command and checks or balances. Either DC will go out of business or an accountant will whisper sad tidings to a ceo ,and Dc will cease to be. Either way, good riddance.
Woke is used be too many different kinds of people for me to not cringe at the sound of it. Some people use it to mean trying too hard to push characters that aren't straight, White, men and ending up doing them a disservice in the process by making them look like a hive mind who's a mouth piece for an entire group of people who are all individuals and some people use it to mean anything that's not a straight, White, man, because there's absolutely people who use that term and complain about some of these things who are not just complaining about the time or execution, but complaining that there's gay or bisexual characters at all. Or Black or whatever. Forgive the run on sentence. There's a channel that reported on Tim Drake being bisexual and questioned them making him "feminine." Like, that guy needs an education. I'd like to hit him, but I don't like the idea of assaulting people for saying things. There are some exceptions, but it would still technically be assault.
You've admitted Tom Taylor has an agenda, but as far as DC as a whole, there's only one person who would need to have an agenda to make the whole company follow his lead: Daniel Cherry III. And here is what Cherry told the Hollywood Reporter when he was hired to manage DC: "“Comics have the power to create unique imagery and narratives that can move the world toward a better, more inclusive version of itself. It’s my sincere hope that I am able to contribute and help evolve the brand and its relevance for generations to come.” Any questions?
@@ComicsPerch Yes, that's the issue. But if he isn't, who is? Jim Lee is a figurehead. There are too many woke moves, too quickly, for this to be a coincidence, just a matter of individuals making their own creative choices, as you say Tom Taylor did. Remember: DC hung back for years, not pushing this stuff blatantly, the way Marvel was. But this all began to cascade after Dan Didio was fired last year (and remember, his most recent work for DC was with *Shane Davis*, who did not get erased from Metal Men in the middle of a run like Eltaeb just did with Jon Kent). Sure, there are other considerations- YA appeal, pivoting to new audiences - but someone selected writers like Mariko Tamaki, Meghan Fitzmartin and Stephanie Williams (who quotes "my fan-fiction is canon" from Dwayne McDuffie on her website) to dominate the company's publicity machine..and if it's not Cherry, then who is it? Marie Javins? Both arrived in the same month (August 2020). It's a rather short list.
There IS an agenda being pushed in comics and anyone who refuses to see it is being intentionally obtuse. Virtually all the editors and writers have the same religious, I mean, political beliefs and they all want to do the same thing. That cannot be truthfully argued. That said, I believe there isn't much communication between them all (it shows to their lack of professionalism and experience). That's why you get the "bi-sexual revelations" stacked on top of one another. There is certainly an agenda but poor/lack of communication keeps it from solidifying, for lack of a better word.
I usually don't comment before I watch a video. This is something I feel I got a grasp on. I love fried chicken. I like ice cream. I like comics and a million other things. I like being in public and discussing comics. It's called freedom probably. This locking down of just so many things is just weird. It's a lack of ideas and opinions. And I got into GL with Ron Marz and Daryl Banks. It was exciting. Anyone could jump in. John Ostrander wrote Suicide Squad and the Spectre. He's a theologian student. But he could jump around. He made Deadshot and Captain Boomerang. Guy has range. Like, is Sinestro or lex Luthor really wrong? You explore the degrees. Man had freedom. They gave him a pass and he pushed it. But it was about exploring the character. Two of my favorite! X-Men are Beast and Archangel. Beast because of the contrast. Angel because he fell and redeemed himself somewhat. That's depth. Hank and Warren felt like they lost something. And they want it back. Connor Kent got shamed by being shallow in the books. But he grew. He's a clone, kryptonian, whatever. But he felt like a person Your sexuality isn't a personal trait. I like redheads. Can't write a book on that. That's dumb. Characters need depth.
I really dislike these "Why won't you just admit [x]" type questions when used as argumentative tactics. There's a whole lot of oversimplification, projection, and mind-reading happening nine times out of ten with them.
It's hardly conducive to any kind of discussion because it just kinda forces the other person to defend a point of view they don't have or constantly reiterate that this misrepresentation doesn't actually represent them. It's similar to the "So you're saying [insert gross hyperbolic misrepresentation for your argument]." Both sides do it, and it's just as headass regardless of who says it.
Learn to adequately voice your arguments, people.
Nah man you can’t ask those guys to think too hard
You must only extoll the circlejerk
Nah man, you can only write like a hipster douche bag who extols his own awesomeness cause no one else can.
@@jamesneese7663 My comment applies to this too, and I definitely agree with this.
@@jamesneese7663 I'm not sure how this has anything to do with my initial comment. There's ways the voice criticisms that don't involve the same level of hyperbole and dishonesty that I see so much from both sides, and I don't think you're trying to rationalize engaging in that hyperbole lol.
The point with the argument is more to state that we don't believe him. We don't buy that he is ignorant about the situation.
That said, he probably is more useful in the middle of the road. It is just annoying and it triggers my need to explain obvious things.
I don't think it matters why they are doing it at this point. Fact is they are making changes to these characters that fans don't like, and have been doing do for years now.
Taking your customers/fans for granted is a no-no especially when there are so many alternatives out there like manga, Indies, etc.
I tend to agree that “wokeness” is not the only problem but I find the “wokeness” (and to borrow their phrase) the most problematic to me.
Seriously, do what you want, talk to who you want, be the channel you want. If people have a problem, they know what they should do… and I hope they know I don’t mean harass.
I feel like this channel is a breath of fresh air and a different perspective on comics that isnt coming from the "culture war" keep up the great work
Yes!
Hear hear .
Totally. It's somehow less stressful too.
Being a centrist is good, but even the centrist has to get more motivated because yes, the world is becoming to one sided. You know it's bad when Republicans and Bill Maher are agreeing
Exactly. When opposing sides which despise each other can both agree something is bad, you know its serious.
Yeah. Even John Stewart is going through his pancake phase. Sometimes he is rampantly left sometimes he agrees with rightwingers.
Hahaha
Bill Maher is looking out for himself. After years of saying the Right was crazy for pointing this shit out. Now he sees the writing on the Wall? Better late than never I guess? But I was sick of his act years ago. I was a fan of his during his PI days. ( Not anymore )
@@lisaroberts8556 look you might be right, Bill Mahere is a self righteous jerk, who thinks he knows better than everyone else, but there is a trend here of people who usually are opposed to a certain value system starting to see, their way sucks
I think the problem with the big two currently is an overall lack of creative vision, an absence of editorial oversight, and a lot of creators who want to make big changes, (sometimes for reason relating to 'social justice'') but who lack a strong connection to comics, or to the material they want to change, to do it well.
For years, my interactions with contemporary comics has entailed me leafing through something in the new releases section, making a sound like Krusty the Clown before he lights up a cigarette, and then purchasing some books that came out in 80s, 90s, or early 2000s. There are people who will say 'Okay boomer [I'm generation X], run along. We don't need you.'
Unfortunately, they do. Comic Book Publishers are in a position where they have to find a way of keeping old readers while also ensnaring a new generation. I think a big part of doing that well would be to engage with their IPs on a creative level and then find a way of working the social commentary into a story. Often it feels as though what is pejoratively referred to as a Woke Agenda is allowed to take precedence over storytelling. The end result is either dull; an exercise in finger-wagging; or, in the worst cases, portrays supposed heroes behaving like villains, to the extent that you begin to wonder whether the writers and editors even realise that their characters are evil.
I don't mind my buttons being pushed if it's done well. Tell better stories. Find clever ways of putting forward your point of view. It's what good science fiction and fantasy has always done. The problem isn't wokeness per se. It's creative indolence.
I appreciate your “fence sitting” takes a lot, it’s nice to see an analysis of a topic that isn’t an exaggerated hot take formed by interpreting the other side in the worst way.
I think you’re right and wrong here, Perch.
You’re right in that individuals working in the big 2 are basically living out their daydreams, pitching comics that embody their own ideals, opinions and stories they came up with while they were still outsiders and now have the chance to manifest as reality. These individuals largely have left-leaning progressive views, because aspiring artists and writers just do generally have leftist views (I know a lot of artists). So the "agenda" here is not so much a formal, written and official thing as it is a drive in each of these individual’s minds to make a mark on the world. Unfortunately, this drive has become so strong and so widely shared that it has become almost an ugly, fascist thing where anyone who disagrees with them is an enemy of progress, less than human and a target for destruction. Still, you can hardly call this an official agenda, because everyone has their own very specific axe to grind and is not likely going hard to bat for others who don’t exactly match up with their goals.
But collectively, DC and Marvel are filled with so many of these types of people, who care more about their axe to grind than telling fun and interesting stories (here’s the part you’ve heard a million times before), that there indeed is an unofficial "agenda", which is progressive and left leaning. Each progressive individual champions their own niche (climate change, black representation, gay representation, trans rights, etc etc) and at least pays lip service to others’ niches. And as I said, there’s a collective hatred of anything that they deem to be getting in their way (conservatives, republicans, etc). At this point it’s splitting hairs whether you want to call this an agenda or not; I would say that it effectively is an agenda, but formally and officially is not.
However, there is absolutely an official agenda called Diversity and Inclusion, which exists in many very large corporations now and I’m almost sure exists in DC and Marvel (though I don’t work for them so I can’t say for certain). I work for one of the largest toy companies worldwide, and about 2 years ago we officially launched our Diversity and Inclusion initiative. It’s exactly what it sounds like: bring underrepresented groups into our marketing, content and products, showcase them more and try to tell their stories. Thus far it has been far less scary and brainwashed than it sounds; we simply make changes in quantities of our toys, make more toys with varied skin colors and, where video content is concerned, add characters who represent people of color or lgbt.
BUT: this is a toy company, where we manufacture a thing that you physically play with, and our video content exists to sell the toy. Contrast this with a comic book which is expected to tell an exciting, interesting story that depends on diverse characters being artfully woven into the plot in an organic way. It’s harder to tell a compelling, gripping story with a diverse cast of characters, where the diversity feels natural and real, than it is to add more brown-skinned toys to a product line. And it doesn’t seem like DC and Marvel are necessarily finding the most skilled storytellers for the job right now.
Sorry this was a long post. Basically, progressive agenda is effectively but not officially real in comics. And officially, there is a massive push in large western corporations for Diversity and Inclusion.
While I'm fine with toy diversity, it often also sounds like something no child would really care about. I'm sure children would be more upset over being told "Here is your black G.I.Joe figure, because you are black" while the child says "But this one has the axe. I wanted the one with the rifle".
But hey, if toy companies are willing to lose money, they could easily make one of each skin tone for every single He-Man, She-Ra, etc. dolls. That way you ensure diversity options, at the slim cost of needing to produce more toys and more advertisement.
@@linusgustafsson2629 well in my company’s case, we’re in a lucky position where it’s very easy and simple to add more diversity. Not all toy companies have it that easy. I do think having diversity is important, I don’t think many people here are gonna argue against that. I also think we do tend to like seeing characters we can relate to, whether they act or think or look like us. In my company’s case, the main question is, how do we add diversity without losing something iconic about our brand? It really boils down to: have good diversity, but do it well and don’t make too big of a sacrifice in pursuit of it.
I’ll admit I hate the feeling that we might be doing this as a result of the pressure from special interest groups, and not because it’s a sound business decision that will help the company financially and also give kids a better product. But I think, at the end of the day, it will work out fine for us specifically. I can’t say the same for other companies, and I certainly can’t say the same for comics, where they seem to be charging off in a direction almost nobody likes.
Diversity and inclusion is fine if it's not insulting.
A long post, but extremely dense with information.
“I don’t believe the agenda because I don’t think people are this stupid”…..hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Yeah I agree with Perch on almost everything, this is one of the exceptions.
All these people just happen to get the same bright ideas about there being too many white cis straight males around, because they are bad writers and stuff. They all just happen to form groups together on Twitter and spend the day dunking on conservatives, and insert that stuff into the comics. No Agenda. Just incompetence.
@YellowSpiderman all just random incompetence from the editors amiright!?
Yea, that is Perch weakness. He thinks there is wokeness with intelligence, but in reality nobody but fools would be woke. Because woke means yelling that black lives matter to a black police officer, while insulting him and wishing him dead.
It is a bit like how I've experienced Scott Adams lately. He'll say smart things like "Many people fall for confirmation bias and think only things that match their world view are correct." but then he'll never consider himself likely to fall for that, and considers all his opinions to be unbiased and factual.
@@linusgustafsson2629 Agreed, and I like Scott Adams.
It's more a diamond - in the fact it's a multi-faceted issue. (Yes, I could make a crack, but I won't. Diamond's hard) You've gone into exactly how many different avenues; marketing, timing, nonsensical events done ad naesuem, the fact they put creators on 5 issue runs and done, political opinions and social media absorbing people yes... but the pay issues, the paper shortages, the damaged packaging. All of that is hurting the comic industry. It's not just "woke." The big two as much as others do need to coordinate better in a lot of different areas, mismanagement is always going to hurt. That's less "fence-sitting" than pure common sense. Hope you have a good day Perch.
I will accept the premise of the agenda not being up front and center in the industry today, but whatever it is, it's definitely not quality.
Agenda or not, story still comes first. The manga Boku Dake ga Inai Machi wears its anti-cop agenda on its sleeve, you can't miss it while you're reading. But ya know what? This manga still delivers a thrilling mystery, it still writes fully fleshed out characters (especially the villain, oh my, what a great villain), its mind game plot is smart and nail-biting. That's what gets a pass grade, not the [UNSOLICITED OPINIONS ON ISRAEL???].
Ahh, the period where I began to loath female centric books, thanks Angela and mockingbird [ASK ME ABOUT MY FEMINIST AGENDA], nothing like activism in my escapism to make it more enjoyable.
The manga Vinland saga is incredibly anti violence.
From what I hear in Japan cops are incredibly useless because they only go after cases they are 90% sure they will win.
@Comics and Finance All the police does is arresting the wrong men that the villain gift-wrapped for them. By the fact that all the framed men got convicted and that we (the readers) know those men were not guilty, we can infer that the police did not give those men due process. The police's pattern of charging the convenient suspects is so consistently reliable that the main villain is able to get away with literal murders for more than a decade by relying on the same behavior.
(In the original timeline) Not one police officer for 10+ years ever questioned how kids of the same age bracket keep getting kidnapped and killed every now and then, yet they find a completely different suspect each case. Even in the final timeline, the villain confessed to everything so the police didn't even do one day of investigation on him. Satoru did all the work foiling his final attempted murder and catching him red-handed, with zero help from the police.
An implication of the time travel plot is that in the original timeline, the villain continued getting away with murders, the police still hunt down wrong men and it was only through the miracle of time travel that Satoru could expose him. In other words, the message is: If this was real life where no such miracle exists, the police will continue enabling injustice forever.
To twist the knife a little further: There is zero "good cop" in the story. No shade of gray about it. All cops are bad people.
So many people dont get this point. Its about the art of storytelling. Not simply using an artform to proselytize.
Anti-cop or recognizing that not all cops are good. Because people in the west are more the former than the latter. At least the crazy people are.
I think we should get rid of all the guns and go back to swords and bows and maces. Sword are much better than guns. Guns are just so uncivilized. Do you know what I'm doing here?
Comics have been declining since the 90s Peak. Obviously its not WOKENESS ALONE that has caused the decline.
@@jamesneese7663 the problem isn't having these types of characters but the fact that they are so close together is so fucking stupid. Let these characters breath apart from eachother but that's something DC doesn't understand
Shane Davis gave me my start in comics, I really appreciate your arranging to have him on. 🙏☺️
I dunno, Perch. It’s weird but there’s something to it.🤷♂️ I’m blue collar and have conservative values to balance my liberal ones and everything is so one-sided. I truly believe that activism is opposite of escapism. And whomever is in charge keeps pushing these things into entertainment. It feels like it’s going to some plan. Barley any of this stuff is fun and entertaining. Which is the point of our fictions. Again, I love you stuff, P. Cheers.
There is undeniably a liberal bias in comics, but I don’t think it is coming from within the comic industry itself, I think it’s just a bleed-over from mainstream media & social media. Kind of following which way they think the cultural wind is blowing.
@@codygatlindesign I see it a little more pervasive and entrenched. 30 years ago when graduating high school, my AP English teacher warned us about the advent of PC Political Correctness on the college campuses we were all heading to. This mindset IMHO has morphed into the derisive term “Woke” today yet its intention is the same. It’s in all the publishing houses, it’s in all entertainment productions, it’s in grade schools and we see it’s impact in modern-day colleges too. They hire from elite colleges & only hire each other and like minds. Pity the talent who cuts across their grain (see Gina Carano🤷♂️). I’m a blue collar, Union strong, Hs grad who flunked out of his first year in college🤷♂️. So being in The Middle & from the South Boston Projects? All I can see is this same pervasiveness everywhere. Yet is “Middle America” buying it? I don’t think so. Yet it’s being offered as the only choices for current entertainments. It will take financial failure in order to correct this. It’s trying to use our escapism as platforms for didactic learning moments. It’s soooooo obnoxious & haughty. I truly reject it.
@@codygatlindesign The "cultural wind" seems to be going toward 100% social awareness 100% of the time. In that situation, just wanting some popcorn fun is morally suspect. I've said so so many times, it's not a set of liberal ideas or liberal bias, it's the idea that there can be no neutral spaces and no neutral hobbies or interests because even the suggestion that a neutral/common space should exist erases some person, excludes them, because their "identity is political" and not wanting that every moment of every day is not wanting *them* to even be alive. Which sounds ridiculously hyperbolic, but unfortunately it's not. People can be dedicated liberals with traditional liberal ideas without being that weird.
@@EricOSullivan I fully agree, I was just trying to find common ground with Perch in saying that this "wokeness" didn't start in comics necessarily, but it certainly is being pushed by comics full-hog now. I reject it as well, being a southern Christian from small-town NC (but with an Architecture education and a high IQ), most of these modern comics don't interest me or represent my values at all. I see the "culture war" as being urban populations vs. rural populations, more than a specific racial, class or political divide... Although these differences are highlighted in the differences between urban & rural populations. Think about it, most of the media comes out of like 3 major cities/areas; New York, Hollywood, & Silicon Valley. People living here can't relate to the rest of the population, and probably don't want to!
@@JuliePascal Agree. Somewhere along the way mentally-ill people co-opted a legitimate political party and transformed it into their own image. Now they operate in this upside-down misery loves company mindset, where anyone who just wants to live their life and be a normal person, must be targeted to either be indoctrinated into this toxic identity-politics worldview, or "cancelled" as a lesson to all of the people who don't fall in line. It's gross, but my strategy has been to just make sure that I have skills & a work-ethic that makes me "un-cancelable" so that I can continue to just say whatever I want without fear of any blowback... So far so good.
On one hand, the anti-SJW crowd errs in the direction of over-maximizing how much of what's wrong with comics is due not only to wokeness but also to systemic or (to use your term) "concerted" wokeness. It isn't 99% like the person who wrote you assumes, nor is the wokeness systemic or "concerted" per se. But on the other hand, and with all due respect, you tend to over-minimize the role that wokeness plays somewhat. One way you do that is by separating wokeness as a factor from a more generalized insularity, complacency, lack of ambition, and lack of competence within the comics industry. But I don't think the separation makes sense. The recourse to wokeness is itself a sign of insularity, complacency, lack of ambition, and lack of competence in comics, just as it is in every other creative and intellectual field, including my own field of the academic humanities. "Creatives" and "intellectuals" (and I use those terms in his context with heavy irony) who go woke do so because they *can't* do anything else (because they lack the capacity) and/or because they *won't* do anything else because they're too lazy to put in the work required to grapple creatively or intellectually with real human ambiguities and complexities, even as in this case, within the relatively limited scope of a superhero comic book. Wokeness is a kind of creative and intellectual "life-hack" for people who aren't up to speed and need hacks to get through life. And this is why wokeness appeal to people who are hacks themselves in terms of the work they do. Tom Taylor is a case in point. Prior to going fully woke, he had already shown himself to be a hack comic writer par excellence, if you'll excuse that oxymoronic way of putting things. His life-experience is too insular, he is too complacent, and he is too lacking in ambition and competence to write superhero characters in their archetypal forms. So he resorts to "creative" hacks of different "deconstructive" or "subversive" sorts and transforms the superheroes he's hired to write into characters he *can* write, characters within the scope of his limited abilities: first supervillains, then zombies, and now generic SJW stereotypes from woke-approved identity groups like the LGBTQ+ bloc. So on the one hand, wokeness is more of a problem than you allow. But on the other hand, the problem with wokeness is the way that it serves as a "solution" -- a short cut or hack -- in relation to the more fundamental problems with comics that you are right to note. And everything I've said about Tom Taylor could equally be said of Daniel Cherry and numerous others at both DC and Marvel. Cherry *can't* think of anything to do with the DC properties except make them woke because -- to put it bluntly -- he's not smart enough. Or he *won't* think of anything else to do because -- to put it bluntly -- he's too lazy. Either way, you get hackery, with wokeness as the default form such hackery takes at the present time. If you're looking for the easiest possible way to make your way through a creative or intellectual field at the present time, i.e. the path of least resistance, then wokeness is the way you want to go; it's the life-hack for you, if a hack is what you are.
The closest thing Perch does to being a Gotcha! interviewer is when he shows guests the Friday wall of Dynamite butt covers
Long time listener. I have to admit there is something to the point of the email and I think the way this video was structured rather supports the point. Perch, you took the argument that there is an agenda/bias exhibited by comic artists (which I believe exists) and instead of answering it straight on you raised it to the level of official corporate policy (which I believe may not explicitly exist, although based on what I've seen recently with Robin and Superman's son it actually may) and then argued against its existence as such (I believe the term is reductio ad absurdum, although I stand to be corrected) while downplaying the fact that individual artists do have such agendas and incorporate it in their art (and for some reason the fact that they get paid too little is an excuse of sorts?! lost me on that one). I do appreciate the level headed approach you take to analysing the industry but I have to admit I have also noted that on occasion you do make a bit too much of an effort (in my eyes) to gloss over what the problem really is. Nevertheless, keep up the good work and I'll keep listening.
To me, the way it is often described (people claim they aren't saying it, but they usually are) is that the agenda is "being pushed from the top" which is what I flatly disagree with for the reasons I go into. I do believe that you have individual creators that bring their pet interests/beliefs (and here's where I would never call that an agenda, but I suppose others might) and run with them. There's a huge gap between the two and it's less of a nuance than a massive difference. I think many people want to hear "it's an agenda against me" very directly... and my goal is to present a case that it's just not that simple. But I also wonder... is there any point to driving the argument? You need to be able to knock on a door that can open.
Perch, in all honesty, if there *isn't* a "conspiracy" at DC to make their characters gay then there's just a lot of people working there that fetishize homosexuals. Which is actually far creepier.
I would agree.
There isn’t a conspiracy. What there is instead is groupthink among an insular, parochial monoculture of people most of whom are not gay themselves but who, for reasons that escape me, are absolutely, positively obsessed with homosexuality and now transgenderism too. You find this phenomenon everywhere left-liberal creatives and intellectuals are found. In comics, it’s creepy because of the fan fiction of “shipping” and “slashing” that’s now making over mainstream comics in its pornographic image. But most other places, it’s not creepy, just weird.
Bad outcomes do not mean that there is no agenda. Incompetency does not mean that there is not malice. You're a smart person Perch so i dont know how you came to this decision.
I also agree the clear woke agenda is not the entire issue. It's like 70% and it makes the other 30% like it's hard to get the product, bad editorial and the product is too expensive impossible to fix. It's like having a boat sinking but you want to fix the compass. There is a clear issue going on here and it effects everyone. We all are getting dragged into the politics because of one side.
This is my favourite channel on UA-cam. Well thought out, fair and nuanced arguments which are a pleasure to listen to.
You're wrong about one thing tho Perch: a lot of us did want to hear more about you from the interview from SGM.
Keep up the great work, and please keep the channel going👍👍👍
The fact that this channel is a hobby probably makes it easier for Perch to be fully honest. Can't tell you how many content creators I used to follow were just journal folks until money started rolling in and they clearly made either a conscious or unconscious business decision to primarily appeal to one extreme side or another. (Dave Rubin anyone?)
I recently started watching Boruto. They handle the life lessons part very well. In one episode, they had a stalker. It ended with the boy doing it actually learning something and becoming a better person. They didn't just beat him up.
Folks can be unorganized to have an agenda. The comics that have been coming out of the big two appears to have the same themes. Such as, GBT stuff and present day politics. Really on the noes too.
The big two have admitted multiple times, the reason why they are changing these characters. Which is representation. That is an agenda. The idea isn't totally wrong, but how they are executing the agenda is. Instead of treating them like a straight or fair skin person, to where their sexuality and race dosen't define them. They use their sexuality or race as a gimmick.
Honest, I don't believe anything of what Talyer said along the lines of, "I always wanted to tell these kinds of stories." I call bull because he could have did some indi work or find someone who would take a risk. He's activating his defense card from the GBT community.
Everyone have their perception of things. Thus, it dosent bother me if others perception dosen't align. It sucks at times, but meh.
"The idea isn't totally wrong," the idea is actually mostly right. Which makes it impossible to usefully critique where it goes wrong because of motte and bailey and everyone either broad brushing it or pretending that it's been broad brushed and that the complaint is about "representation" instead of what is being done with it. So is the "representative" character being treated like a "white-cis" character? Generally, no.
Because if a character "represents" me in a story, in a movie, in a comic, I'd prefer that she's not a b*tch. So the edges get smoothed out, the character made appealing or even admirable. Which is why I think that Perch is wrong. A "representative" can't develop into the arch nemesis. Even if that would be exceedingly good story telling and wondrously interesting. A "representative" can't even be just a little selfish or b*tchy like a real person might be. When we see a "representative" character acting like a flaming *ssh*ole it's always as if she (usually she) is 100% justified and righteous to treat other people like sh*t.
SMH
@@JuliePascal I disagree with him a bit aswell. There is definitely an agenda going on based on the patterns and consistency of how entertainment is being pushed. However, he see this situation differently, thus I can't fault him for it and would never do so. The world is huge, different ideas and things circulate. Not the mention, we are not Jean or Professor X thus we can't truly know what folks are thinking. My assumption is based on what I have been seeing and there is a clear pattern for me that are simular to old movements. Hopefully this passes and we see a different change that isn't so aggressive.
GBT?
Do you not like lesbians or do you just think that it's stupid that homosexual women have their own term while gay isn't specific to men or women, just homosexuals.
That's what I think.
@@Anti-HyperLink I don't have a problem with them. They are fine. I don't think the terms should be sperate to the gender/sex. Homosexuality used to refer to just being gay. Atleast in my experience. No matter male or female. I understand the history around the term lesbian referring to the lesbo island, but we should stop categorizing people honestly.
I have been into comics since I was 5 (1972), and I can tell a lot these writers and artist do not care about the characters or comics in general, you can tell when writer or artist cares about something, there is passion in the words and in the art, a lot of artist and writers of the past grew up reading comics, now it seems they hire anyone they can get on the cheap and give zero F's about comics or the history of them, something you can see
when reading many of the modern comics.
A lot of the blame is on the corporations that own DC and Marvel, they put people in charge that are not qualified, and cannot hire people that can tell a story about social issues without beating it over your head, and just swapping sexual preference or race for no good reason, Robin is gay this month, next month Jon Kent, oh in November Catwoman will come out as bi, and December Martha Kent, just to get a headline nothing more, and I am a life long Democrat and I can see this as just over the top pandering to people who will never buy the comic anyway.
In the 80's when you had a group that tried to censor and push their beliefs on people, they were called the moral majority, and I didn't like them either.
As Stan Lee said.
ua-cam.com/video/L6RROB0s4Ps/v-deo.html
I got the Flyin' Brian reference! :p
Perch, you do have one of the larger and higher-engagement Comics UA-cam channels. And I was definitely introduced to people like Nancy Collins and Joe Corallo and Kaare Andrews from your channel (and then went on to buy and read their comics). Sure, I don’t think Ron Marz’s profile will be elevated. But you do give some visibility here.
Just because someone is bad at their agenda, doesn't mean there isn't one. Granted that agenda is more about money and fame than anything else, and that belief that all these new readers will show up one day and old fans are inconsequential, then they get caught in a sunk cost loop in their heads.
I will respectfully disagree, though I respect your opinion. Your channel is not one to complain about the "agenda" or "message". But, this wokeness is just endemic of a larger symptom of illness in our society.
I hear you and do agree to an extent. That said, I think if it was just 'woke' it wouldn't be as rough. It's that plus the heavy handedness, ignoring character history, subpar art, retcons, focus on food over fights. If it had woke elements but still had the essential heart of a comic book we might be able to digest it without vomiting.
Bring back the Rainforest! . . Cafe!
The agenda problem isn't with the people fumbling around at the bottom, it's with the people at the top and (more specifically) the major investors who select them. When almost every major publicly-traded corporation is marching in lockstep, it's not an accident and I wish more people would realize that, whatever their reasons may be, it's for the benefit of those who own those corporations and not for people like us.
I'm only two minutes into the video and , ".. why do all the things we love go away..." hits pretty hard, man. I think that's the way most, or at least a lot of us feel right now when we see the IPs we grew up with being retooled without respect to the source material for a generation that doesn't really care anything about it.
I like having you as a calm, informed voice. Don’t change.
I think many industries are being ruined by leftist ideology, and the grownups aren’t reigning in the petulant children.
"Fence sitter douchebag" is pretty good.
I first started watching your channel back when you had the little guitar intro and titled videos with episode numbers. I was initially attracted to your history videos, and some weird ones stick out in my mind like your one about trading cards, weirdly cut comic covers, and creator feuds. But I feel like I've learned a lot about the business on all levels. I love your analytical take on things, even if I disagree with some of it.
I admit I have earned some sympathy for creators when you've explained how little they make, how they seem to be hanging on to work by little, and the somewhat chaotic business they are in. I just wish they would understand that they are alienating a lot of their audience by inserting personal politics in seemingly all. Even if it isn't all comics, I think you can see why some people can believe that they have an agenda. Even a poorly laid out and disastrous one.
Honestly, people are just tired of all the political fighting and people on all sides would do well to just keep their beliefs to themselves. It doesn't make those beliefs any less, it just, IDK. Not every single thing has to be a battlefield.
And DW about those livestreams. They are just trying to make cults out of their followers to sell books.
It doesn't matter if you make them gay or bi, the (extreme/far) right-wing can't tell the difference. Probably can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground, either, which is kind of ironic maybe and I didn't plan it.
Are they two different wings of the eagle that is Amurica?
Bi the way (ahaha puns), I don't know this for sure, but I can only imagine there are some far left people who don't like bisexuals because they're not gay enough. Surely there are people who just blanket hate straight people. So there'd be gay people hating bisexuals for the same but opposite reason as the straight people hating them.
But... "We do have a lot in common. The same Earth, the same air, the same sky. Maybe if we started looking at what's the same instead of always looking at what's different... well, who knows?" - a good kitty.
Those people who want to have a channel crusading againt the woke agenda are welcome to create one. Most of us who follow your content do so because you genuinely love comics and so do we.
I'm always surprised by how many interesting and insightful points you bring up in your videos, keep up the good work!
Hey... there hasn't been an comic where Lex Luthor grows back his orange hair, gains a few pounds, and runs for president again for the first time, and after a battle where Superman fights Doomsday which leads to half of Metropolis being destroyed, Lex promises America that he'll build a wall around the Earth to protect them from aliens, and he'll make the Kryptonians pay for it... !
Wait, in LoSh, if it takes place in the future, and in real life, the world become more progressive, wouldn't that mean in the 30th or 31st century, gender wouldn't exist anymore? Or rather, wouldn't any reference to gender be considered offensive? What's the deal with Saturn "girl" and Lightning "lad"??? Shouldn't it be... Saturn person? Lightning person? And you're telling me the Legion was inspired by a SuperMAN? LoSh gets cancelled, and the charge was led by none other than the Fatal Five-- their most successful campaign against the Legion yet!!!
Can confirm: Perch is allergic to e-mail.
woke is pretty harmless but bad stories can easily kill lots of comics. I noticed woke since the bronze age with characters like Mal Duncan, black lightning, Vixen, Vibe, gypsy, yolanda montez, dr beth chapel, katana, kimiyo hoshi, etc.
Perch I disagree. There IS people in comics that don't love comics. They (SJW's) didn't come to work in comics for the love of the characters, stories or history. They (SJW's) infiltrated the comic industry to CHANGE culture using comics and the characters everybody else loves. These writers and editors made their intentions clear on social media. It may not have been people like Jim Lee's plan to do this. But Jim Lee MUST go along with it because he knows, you know and everybody knows if he tried to stop it his ass would be cancelled by groups like Gail Simone's Whisper Network faster than a speeding bullet! Why do you think it's called a Culture War?!? #WelcomeToTheRebellion #CancelWokeHollywood
"Agenda" is an overused word.
There's one ice cream place like that near a Mexican restaurant i went to recently. It was empty in there, but the ice cream was great.
My problem with a lot of comics is the “ripped from the current news cycle headline” topics and the manufactured *diversity and representation* (“It’s good, because it’s diverse!”). For $4-5 an issue, Im not buying it anymore.
Examples like Tom Taylor’s Xmen Red garbage and Jason Aaron’s whole premise of Jane FosThor aka Queen Padme Amidala of Asgardia. When it’s soooo clear there was something pulled from watching too much CNOnion, or just “hey what do I do here…i guess ill just steal something from a movie I am watching” its lazy, lazy, lazy writers ruining my enjoyment of comics for the most part.
There is definitely an ideological motive here.
It doesn't have to be an agenda (although that's not too far-fetched at all), but it could be just that most people who work in the industry in these big companies have an ideological motive, which the current climate encourages. So for these creators, it's a win-win for, they can make comics and get paid for it and at the same time "send a message" "and be part of something" and be praised for it (at least from "critics" and journalists and even the people at the company they work for itself). What you should ask is, what are the chances if a creator makes a comic that has some right-wing message, that it will be approved and published by these big companies (if they don't have an agenda). Let's say superman son goes to a trump rally (not as satire but to promote the politics with all seriousness) ???
An ideological motive is an agenda. An agenda is just a to do list.
And we know they won't do the right wing thing since they black balled all the CG guys.
Heck a more recent example. They black balled Joe Bennet for a right wing political cartoon he drew for another country.
Not only is it a clear agenda, it is a literal conspiracy. Activist groups make demands for an identity politics checklist and in response the companies then have meetings on what they have to do to minimize Twitter and tumblr complaints.
Yes. It's less a case of the bigwigs at the top passing down decrees, as it is creators at the bottom thinking they're participating in some 'popular' grassroots activism. Who knows how those at the top view it: somewhere between indifference (who cares about comics as long as the MCU is making bank) and fear of being branded bigots if they try to course-correct. So you end up with the tail wagging the dog, so to speak.
Dead on for the superboy arc. my question though is why is no one talking about Jon cheating on Saturn Girl
Wouldn’t that mean having read Bendis’s Superman and/or LoSH books? Who’d do that to themself
@@ferrarriohh i did and I’m reading superboy
@@jprocha1570 i couldn’t get thru it. Donated the tpb hoping some kid would appreciate the art (Ryan Sook?) and at least read it once, then i bought An Eye for An Eye by Levitz and Giffen
@@ferrarriohh yeah nothing happened in the book ha ha
Your hobby keeps me healthy. Thanks. The apologies sometimes make me grind my teeth, but by the end of the video I walk away with more knowledge than I had before. Good job, thanks again.
"Fence-sitting milk toast idiot” that's an awesome line of dialogue. I'll be damned if I know why anyone wants you to admit to anything.
There's no agenda, there's just a conglomeration of dummies, cowards, advertisers, useful idiots, and true believers. Can you even discuss any concept of biological sex without getting your channel struck, without it reflecting poorly on your guests? Why is it more important to make the distinction whether it's an agenda or not?
I come here because I get leveled information. When you lean to far either way you tend to lose people engulfed in their own ideology. That's what happened to news media and articles...just giving us a bunch of opinions when people just simply want "just the facts man"!
Perch's standard interview question: "So, do you beat you wife less than you used to?"
With the Jonh Kent boyfriend thing, I thought for a moment "they are showing that he is an activist that is invulnerable to damage" and was thinking, what if he get tired of doing stuff "the pacifist" way with marches, he nags to John about "with thouse powers you could make a huge change and you do nothing", so he start doing really bad things that could be consider terrorism, and can't be stopped because is invulnerable, and not even Jonh can stop him because the emotional toll and because the guy is invulnerable to physical attacks. Do the writter have to come up with a clever plan of "how will superman save the day from this".
But like it was said, it could be just so the boyfriend is not a "damsel in desgrace" and they do nothing with him. Which I think is what will be
Good stuff.
When SGM "interviewed" Perch... the video ended up being... about Sean... 0_0
What if in 2024, just in time for the election, Marvel comes out with CIVIL WAR HULK.
There's red hulk, who says HULK BUILD WHITE PICKET FENCE!!!
Then there's blue hulk who says HULK TEAR DOWN FENCE!!!
And last but not least, there's purple hulk who says HULK SIT ON FENCE!!!
Perch has to remain neutral or face cancelation
The most likely cancelation I’ll face is self cancelation. I’ve already been called out by the big names on both “sides” and the biggest threat to continuing is boredom.
Me: Makes a comment with no swear words or offensive words whatsoever.
Perch's UA-cam algorithm: Nah bro. We won't be having any of that.
I dont think youre milk toast, i think youre balanced and grounded. its the whole reason i watch your channel.. dont change
Haha, na. When SGM interviewed you, it was really interesting to have someone ask you direct questions and you answer them.
If there’s no “woke cabal” that is much more frustrating and intractable. Whatever the reason, the results are fewer and fewer well written books. Fewer books I want to buy. It’s a downer. Just feels like these companies (intentionally or not) are punishing people for being long term fans of these characters.
Anyway, back to the manga stacks.
From what I've seen it's just more a simple case of bad management. The group editors don't know how to do their jobs. The people in charge of the schedules are failing miserably at their jobs. And even the people in charge on collections are failing too. As Chuck Dixon said "They don't know how to work in publishing."
Why manga only and not manga and old comic books that don't suck like the new ones that use not being straight, White, or male as a marketing ploy?
Just saw this video 2 years later and I can safely say dc did say “we’re doing gay in 2021”
Well bless your heart.
Everything should be about logic, Morty!
Brian Pillman and Kevin Sullivan
Idk who Ron Mars is bro 🤷♂️.
ok but who is the Brian Pillman of comics?
Thanks, Obama.... lol
Who insulting perch, they gotta be roughed up, unacceptable behavior
Perch, Shane's baby came a week early. The doctor sprung it on them at their appointment. So he probably was going to speak to you... but plans changed. :)
That thumbnail is awesome 😂😂
I subscribed to you a year ago because you know it's not that simple.
And I do appreciate it.
So why does dc allow something like taylor's pitch? What does dc get out of it.
Publicity. Headlines. A temporary spike in sales. And ultimately nobody at Warner Media really cares about the long term impact of a comic about Superboy.
@@ComicsPerch this is the real problem with DC and Marvel. They don't really care about comics. They are each part of a larger entertainment conglomerate. These days they are as much a comic publisher as Nintendo is a playing card company. The future of comics lies with the indies.
Yep. This new Superman: Son of Kal-El is like the Death of Superman 2021 moment of fame. The sales bump is likely orders that will go into stock rooms and sit for months or years, while retailers try to convince anyone its somehow “valuable”
@@ComicsPerch Agreed but you’re overlooking a plausible factor: the consequences of not allowing it, and even worse, criticizing it in that hypothetical Zoom call. When people throw out ideas for consideration the possibility of someone saying “that’s dumb” or “boring” or “cliched” usually exists which pushes people to promote well thought out ideas and be able to defend them. People are very hesitant to do that over ideas like Taylor’s, especially in this industry, given the likelihood the comments will be put out on Twitter, perhaps in captured Zoom video, and the critic will be ostracized. So proposed lazy or poorly timed (e.g. Robin & Superboy) “woke” ideas sail through shielded from needed creative criticism. An editor’s only alternative is to not hire writers with track records like Taylor’s or jumping on another idea that might not be much better before a socially woke idea gets presented. No matter what, the editor’s potential pool of possible ideas is impoverished.
As I said before I like how you take a more objective and often middle stance and are not afraid to point out flaws on both sides whether it's left or right heck nobody really knows where you stand because of that. Many of these UA-cam channels always attack the left and can often be dismissed as just being right wing when you think about it but that's one argument they can't use against you objectively.
I see comics today beign run with a mix of barely competent (and sometimes not even that) , nepotistic, spiteful creator, editorial and management teams for whom keeping evertyhing from completely falling apart is already an achievement but they try to do more than they are capable of (i.e. expanding the market place) and they can't successfully pull it out and thus hurt what they are already have as a result - and the culture climate makes that any one who tries to stand up to the idiocracy is going to get shouted down, harrassed and deplatformed.
That said, it's hard to not see some sort of coordinated effort when this moronic crap only gets worst and incompetent people keep failing upwards the command chain - even it's just a series of Stand-Alone Complexes supported by the the generalized stupidity that took over the industry when the old heads decided it was time to retire or move into more lucrative fields.
Still, this moronic crap is tiresome and has already gotten old fast - not only this resulting product is bad but I have no interesting in supporting garbage from people who made it pretty clear through their words and/or work that they hate me.
Editors aren't making any money and don't even know how much their comics are selling. If that is true, it explains almost everything.
Many editors are making sub 40k. Many I’ve talked to get their numbers from Twitter or Comichron.
@@ComicsPerch That is disturbing on a lot of levels.
The pay issue is easy enough to understand, but why aren't they given sales numbers? To an outside observer that seems very counterintuitive.
There's room for both, media that provides escapist fantasy to enjoy and media that provides social and political commentary whether subtle or in your face.
However, there are media that are able to balance both concepts and do it well, with the right writer.
A perfect example of this is Osamu Tezuka's Astro Boy manga. One of the manga's main themes is the shaky human-robot relations, which was used as an analogue to tackle racism. However, it also had some good old fashioned adventure stories where Astro took on foes ranging from criminals, rogue robots, aliens and even giant insects.
Perch, the Brian Pillman of comic book youtube xD
100%.
i still love you perch. btw if i wanted to pester you about my own indie comic, what would be the best method?
Had no problem with Perch talking a side topic and ended on politic sarcasm 😅
Perch why are u disparaging worms, by saying you are a cowardly worm, how dare you assume a worm is a coward!
Wokeness is killing everything, not just comics.
Ok sheep go sit on the other side of the fence, I’ll guide you to it since your to emotional to find your way.
@@calebelectric Calling everyone other than yourself (and Perch?) a "sheep" is a sure sign of emotional maturity.
The way you pitched Jonathan Kent being bisexual thing and that whole thing sounded great.
If only DC executed it like that. Didn't they rush the relationship and make it really stupid?
It's faster to talk than type?!
;)
2021
Unless you are using an old Nokia's T9 predictable keyboard 😂
To be fair the guy has a point if you think about it. And this video proves it.
What this dude in email or whatever can do is watch the other part of this channel that doesn't touch those topics.
The people who want me to “admit an agenda” sound remarkably like the people who want to “force woke speech”. It’s amazing how the side that claims to fight against being coerced to a particular mindset can absolutely not handle ANY disagreement.
@@ComicsPerch i would fully admit you are right. Except all your giggles and simirks and little laughs on literally every video you make when you reach those topics.
And please don't tell me is that what you are like. I don't care if you admit anything. It interests me as much as a last year's snow. But even listening to your "review" on solicitations you would have to be deaf to not see the undercurrent of I dunno disdain? Pity in your voice on any of those. If you want to be neutral fine. But you seriously need to step it up and cut on it. Just because you don't use the actual word doesn't make it any better than literally terrible sites like Yellow Flash. Maybe even worse. Concealed disdain is worse than open. And it shows. Even in this video. Sorry mate.
It's the pot calling the kettle.
I'm sorry. You don't need to do anything. That is wrong. Just I personally don't understand why are you surprised really
@@MisterLuu I find issues across the board… which is what I talk about a lot. The issues can’t all be conveniently grouped into one bucket labeled “woke”. I find being lighthearted about it gets me through it. If that doesn’t appeal to people, and they would rather have full-throated victim rage… it’s their party.
@@ComicsPerch Fair enough.
10:31 yes Perch, i actually think this is what is happening with the hacktivist guy...is manipulating Jonathan to have a OP being on his side against his goverment
I think it had 100% to do with money and keeping trademarks and avoiding paying royalties. They couldn't copywrite truth justice and american way so they changed it. When does Superboy, Superman or any other DC character become a threat to DC in becoming public domain? Why not change it just enough so they can claim the new version?
Which live channels are those that bash Perch?
Asking for a friend. ;)
Regarding the question in the video. Obviously the comics isn't dying because of woke agendas. The wokeness is just the sort of parasites that attack weak and old animals.
But my problem with the fence-sitting is the balance between who is to blame. You can't say that both are equally wrong when one side is those that started and is driving the conflict. I get that it is a useful attitude to take, but still.
It’s not “balanced” between sides, it’s calling out the issues as they arise. Too many people (who do have an agenda) want to ignore the actual issues in favor of promoting their tribe… usually because their tribe is guilty of some of the same things. Focusing on the issues is cleaner.
@@ComicsPerch Sure both sides act shitty, but the creators are those that have the power to stop the conflict. The fans are powerless and can only whine.
It is a conflict between one side that is ideologically motivated (or rather sadistic in many cases) and one side that is emotionally motivated because they love the characters and react to the treatment.
The fans can only end the conflict by giving up the love for the characters, the creators can end the conflict by stop being d*cks.
You know "with great powers come great responsibilities".
A single fan can't make a difference but a single creator can change everything, but they chose to create conflicts.
@@kulturkriget The dynamic is not unlike the one in play when kids who are picked on in school are punished as much and sometimes more for standing up for themselves than their bullies are punished for picking on them to begin with. It matters who's playing offense and who's playing defense and it's ultimately more incumbent upon those who started a culture war to end that war that it is on those who were attacked, though granted both sides should do a lot more than either one generally does to be pacific and de-escalate things.
@@kulturkriget I think most of his point of view is that playing the blame game and pointing fingers isn't really productive. I don't think he's even saying both sides are equally to blame. He's just evaluating EVERYTHING with a critical eye regardless of who it comes from.
I don't think that's fence-sitting. I think that's just an aversion to tribalism. This is why there's an emphasis on attacking the issues rather than attacking a side. One's a lot less tribal and more logically consistent than the other. You have no idea how frequently I hear the same shit in different words coming from the pro-customer side as I hear from the pro-industry folks.
And I think I appreciate this approach more because a lot of the other youtubers just pick a side and report from their own angle to appeal to an audience and fuel their own narrative (whether this narrative is fact or fiction is irrelevant).
Gonna also add that just because one side has power over the other doesn't mean that the out-of-power party is absolved of responsibility when BOTH act like children. Ain't saying both do so just as much as the other, mind you. But it's still worthy of consideration regardless.
@@TheVanillaQueen Yeah, it isn't productive, but it ain't going anywhere until the leftists either stop attacking and provoking or the fans fall out of love with the comics.
But he gives an unfair description of the fans/critics position. No one is claiming that there is a secret cabal planning anything, it is agenda driven narcissistic individuals that act in unison because they are fanatics.
I also think his description of the left are way to forgiving but that is ok, I can see the rhetoric point there.
And I don't think the conflict is the issue, I think the behavior of the creators is the issue. But as you say the focus on the conflict is probably more productive, but it is also fence-sitting to avoid speaking openly about the real issue. It might be wise, but that is a very sad fact that dishonesty is the wiser move.
Yes, both side has a responsibility, but that is if you focus on the participation in the conflict as the issue. The real problem, and the issue I think should be in focus, is the creation and upholding of the conflict in the first place and that is 100% the fault of the creators. They can end the conflict at any point by stop attacking, provoking, and instead apologies for their behavior. The fans can't do that, they are just upset and angry over the treatment.
I'm glad you've distanced yourself from this culture war foolishness,because you consistently give the most level headed and original takes on comics news. It's refreshing to hear opinions that don't just boil everything down to simplistic right vs left narratives.
Is that an old comic book with Cap saying he fought Hitler not because America was great, but because it was fragile? Do people not like that part? Isn't calling America fragile anti-patriotism? Or does patriotism mean knowing when your country has fallen and fighting to bring it back up?
That's not even what the video is about, and obviously no one can answer those questions as I'm typing this, but I think my perspective on some things just changed.
Personally I am tired of the word agenda in everything because frankly it’s just getting frustrating to the point and personally all I care about is seeing a story and plus comic book stories had political stuff before so this ain’t anything new so why it’s a problem now I have no idea but that’s just my opinion.
Growth. It doesn't matter how long you had cancer. Only how big is it, how fast is it spreading and is it compromising core functions of major organs.
@@robertblume2951 sadly your not wrong about that
Late to this one, I know but the algo got my attention. Here’s my two cents:
Perch, I think these writers suffer from wanting to be in Hollywood so bad and only see comics as a way to get up there. So they don’t put the care needed in order to make something great. It’s like with video game journalists who REALLY want to be political journalists on CNN but just can’t make the cut. They see these niche pulp pop culture groups as a shortcut and quite frankly, it’s disrespectful.
I can go to any other channel and hear about the agenda. I like this channel mostly because it talks about the other issues with comics outside the agenda while, honestly speaking, not shying away from kt either but saying theirs multifacets to the problem.
Just because you take one tumor off the patient doesn't mean therea not ten others we need to operate on too.
I guess sitting on the fence and eternally 'playing dumb' helps grow your channel and make those oh so important connections.
I've found it better than being a mindless ideological prick who can only vomit out the same tired catchphrases over and over, but to each their own.
@@ComicsPerch Those cliches are used so often exactly because so many people noticed that they're 100% accurate. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then its probably a duck. Unless you're the kind of cynical, opportunistic prick who likes to play dumb and pretend its not a duck to benefit from playing both sides.
But hey its working! your channel *is* growing. Good luck to you I say. Just don't expect to fool everyone.
Try to have that conversation with Shane.
I think it all stems from Daniel Cherry the Turd. There is no way that writers are doing whatever they want, an editor has to sign off on it.
That would make logical sense. However…
@@ComicsPerch If the situation is as you described it, with writers doing whatever they want. Then that means the company is basically broken and there exists no chain of command and checks or balances. Either DC will go out of business or an accountant will whisper sad tidings to a ceo ,and Dc will cease to be. Either way, good riddance.
Woke is used be too many different kinds of people for me to not cringe at the sound of it. Some people use it to mean trying too hard to push characters that aren't straight, White, men and ending up doing them a disservice in the process by making them look like a hive mind who's a mouth piece for an entire group of people who are all individuals and some people use it to mean anything that's not a straight, White, man, because there's absolutely people who use that term and complain about some of these things who are not just complaining about the time or execution, but complaining that there's gay or bisexual characters at all. Or Black or whatever.
Forgive the run on sentence.
There's a channel that reported on Tim Drake being bisexual and questioned them making him "feminine." Like, that guy needs an education. I'd like to hit him, but I don't like the idea of assaulting people for saying things. There are some exceptions, but it would still technically be assault.
It seems to me that they are too scatterbrain to have some big agendas or hidden plots.
Or maybe they make it look like that???
Is it hard to admit that the answer to complex questions is sometimes often the simplest of answers?
That there’s a lot of incompetence and nobody is paying much attention to what is going on even though they should? No, that’s pretty easy to admit.
You've admitted Tom Taylor has an agenda, but as far as DC as a whole, there's only one person who would need to have an agenda to make the whole company follow his lead: Daniel Cherry III. And here is what Cherry told the Hollywood Reporter when he was hired to manage DC: "“Comics have the power to create unique imagery and narratives that can move the world toward a better, more inclusive version of itself. It’s my sincere hope that I am able to contribute and help evolve the brand and its relevance for generations to come.” Any questions?
Do you think Cherry is leading right now? That’s sort of the issue there.
@@ComicsPerch Yes, that's the issue. But if he isn't, who is? Jim Lee is a figurehead. There are too many woke moves, too quickly, for this to be a coincidence, just a matter of individuals making their own creative choices, as you say Tom Taylor did. Remember: DC hung back for years, not pushing this stuff blatantly, the way Marvel was. But this all began to cascade after Dan Didio was fired last year (and remember, his most recent work for DC was with *Shane Davis*, who did not get erased from Metal Men in the middle of a run like Eltaeb just did with Jon Kent). Sure, there are other considerations- YA appeal, pivoting to new audiences - but someone selected writers like Mariko Tamaki, Meghan Fitzmartin and Stephanie Williams (who quotes "my fan-fiction is canon" from Dwayne McDuffie on her website) to dominate the company's publicity machine..and if it's not Cherry, then who is it? Marie Javins? Both arrived in the same month (August 2020). It's a rather short list.
There IS an agenda being pushed in comics and anyone who refuses to see it is being intentionally obtuse. Virtually all the editors and writers have the same religious, I mean, political beliefs and they all want to do the same thing. That cannot be truthfully argued.
That said, I believe there isn't much communication between them all (it shows to their lack of professionalism and experience). That's why you get the "bi-sexual revelations" stacked on top of one another.
There is certainly an agenda but poor/lack of communication keeps it from solidifying, for lack of a better word.
I usually don't comment before I watch a video. This is something I feel I got a grasp on. I love fried chicken. I like ice cream. I like comics and a million other things. I like being in public and discussing comics.
It's called freedom probably.
This locking down of just so many things is just weird. It's a lack of ideas and opinions.
And I got into GL with Ron Marz and Daryl Banks. It was exciting. Anyone could jump in.
John Ostrander wrote Suicide Squad and the Spectre. He's a theologian student.
But he could jump around. He made Deadshot and Captain Boomerang. Guy has range. Like, is Sinestro or lex Luthor really wrong? You explore the degrees.
Man had freedom. They gave him a pass and he pushed it. But it was about exploring the character.
Two of my favorite! X-Men are Beast and Archangel. Beast because of the contrast. Angel because he fell and redeemed himself somewhat.
That's depth. Hank and Warren felt like they lost something. And they want it back.
Connor Kent got shamed by being shallow in the books. But he grew. He's a clone, kryptonian, whatever. But he felt like a person
Your sexuality isn't a personal trait.
I like redheads. Can't write a book on that. That's dumb. Characters need depth.