thankyou, I was curious what you thought of Nagaos white steel? I was suprised when they offered folders in Blue for around 30 and then white steel was base priced around 100, but you have clarified why.
Murray is exactly white. I'm a tool user, and not a knife fanatic, but the chisels and plane irons made properly by an experienced smith in white steel are preferable. The trouble is that a lot of the white steel tools are not made as well as the best smiths make them, and not forged at low heat, and they don't come out like the white steel tools made by the better smiths. If someone is going to buy inexpensive tools, they are better off buying blue steel tools. If they are looking for the absolute best, it isn't going to be blue or blue super or any of those things, it is going to be by an experienced smith who knows what to do with white #1 - and in my experience, the number of those guys making things is not large. Much easier for someone to get rikizai material and cut it and make some $75 knives, which as murray says, are fantastic knives (OK, I do have some knives, but more tools than knives), but the subtle things make an expertly made knife or tool in white steel the best.
I respectfully disagree. I have a Takeda 240 Gyuto in blue super and a Funayuki from you in white steel #1 and the blue super does everything the white steel does and just as well.
I think he was talking about production stuff though, TBH i don't see that much of a difference with alot of high end steels out there now a days. I just like murray's grinds
blue super is a lot harder to sharpen and doesn't hold the finest edge quite as well. By that, I mean straight razor type edge, not just vegetable slicing. If you use really modern stuff, then none of them are that hard to sharpen, but I'd rather have something that agrees with natural abrasives and really holds the edge well and wears with the smallest particles coming off during wear.
so basically even though blue steel is stronger and harder, White steel, if forged properly is still superior ? .. guess thats why Masakage comes so highly recommended
Blue steel is not stronger or harder, but it has a wider range of acceptable temperatures for a blacksmith to be in to get it perfect. White steel is nicer to use if it's done perfectly, but the optimal temperature ranges are really narrow - something like 25 degrees for white 1 (when someone talks about really difficult to get right, they're usually talking about white 1 and not white 2). Functionally, there may not be a great difference between two good knives, but the greatest display of talent when done by hand is the highest carbon white steels because they have the least room for error. They're also going to have the smallest particle/carbide sizes and take a fine edge and still have a fine feeling edge as they dull (unless you chip them).
Murray, your'e rad! you call an ace. Your'e a true artist. I hope to come take classes with you this year.
thankyou, I was curious what you thought of Nagaos white steel? I was suprised when they offered folders in Blue for around 30 and then white steel was base priced around 100, but you have clarified why.
Murray is exactly white. I'm a tool user, and not a knife fanatic, but the chisels and plane irons made properly by an experienced smith in white steel are preferable. The trouble is that a lot of the white steel tools are not made as well as the best smiths make them, and not forged at low heat, and they don't come out like the white steel tools made by the better smiths. If someone is going to buy inexpensive tools, they are better off buying blue steel tools. If they are looking for the absolute best, it isn't going to be blue or blue super or any of those things, it is going to be by an experienced smith who knows what to do with white #1 - and in my experience, the number of those guys making things is not large.
Much easier for someone to get rikizai material and cut it and make some $75 knives, which as murray says, are fantastic knives (OK, I do have some knives, but more tools than knives), but the subtle things make an expertly made knife or tool in white steel the best.
How can white steel cut more than M390, S110V or ZDP?
Probably by not containing 15-20% of chrome.
I respectfully disagree. I have a Takeda 240 Gyuto in blue super and a Funayuki from you in white steel #1 and the blue super does everything the white steel does and just as well.
I think he was talking about production stuff though, TBH i don't see that much of a difference with alot of high end steels out there now a days. I just like murray's grinds
blue super is a lot harder to sharpen and doesn't hold the finest edge quite as well. By that, I mean straight razor type edge, not just vegetable slicing. If you use really modern stuff, then none of them are that hard to sharpen, but I'd rather have something that agrees with natural abrasives and really holds the edge well and wears with the smallest particles coming off during wear.
Come Murry, you know that is not what you taught us!!
so basically even though blue steel is stronger and harder, White steel, if forged properly is still superior ? .. guess thats why Masakage comes so highly recommended
Blue steel is not stronger or harder, but it has a wider range of acceptable temperatures for a blacksmith to be in to get it perfect. White steel is nicer to use if it's done perfectly, but the optimal temperature ranges are really narrow - something like 25 degrees for white 1 (when someone talks about really difficult to get right, they're usually talking about white 1 and not white 2).
Functionally, there may not be a great difference between two good knives, but the greatest display of talent when done by hand is the highest carbon white steels because they have the least room for error. They're also going to have the smallest particle/carbide sizes and take a fine edge and still have a fine feeling edge as they dull (unless you chip them).
99.9% of all butchers, meat workers and chefs on this planet use stainless steel knives. Because they are workers NOT edge junkies.