@@hoosas5998 If we are nitpicking here, then your grammar in your first sentence is off; the first comma should be a semicolon and the proposed statement should be surrounded by quotes. The second comma could also be eliminated. Also, what you proposed is a different statement. Tepper said that he previously regretted not having perfect pitch, whereas now, he has changed that opinion and no longer regrets it. Your proposal would shift the previous state from one of regret to one of nonalignment as to whether perfect pitch is desirable, and the current state from one of a removal of regret that will continue to an implied state of temporary gladness at lack of perfect pitch for the duration of the video. I hereby declare you destroyed epic despacito gamer style with facts and logic.
That's because you can only have just intonation in a specific key so when the piece modulates to some more distant key it can get *out of tune* pretty significantly. This is the reason people started with various tuning schemes, to make all keys sound okay to play in. Here C major sounds great, but it really is only C-major that is in just intonation, everything else isn't really. Can't be because then you would have to constantly adjust the pitch of every note i real time. And if you were to adjust pitch to make it just intonation for every chord and every key in a piece of music then the pitch of A (and everything else) would have to drift up or down with every change in harmony, so the C major you started with wouldn't be the same C major as the one you ended with.
This is fever dream music for relative pitch. One moment it sounds sharp then flat, and sometimes I can't even hear what the hell is the interval. Brilliant
It seems like people who have “perfect pitch” are only “perfect” in terms of equal temperament lol. I wonder if we had a different tuning system, our ears would be accustomed differently. Those with perfect pitch might be able to distinguish microtones, if they’ve grown up with microtonal music.
You should check out Jacob Collier if you haven't already, his perfect pitch is beyond everything I've ever heard of. He can distinguish not only equal temperament and just intonation, but any note and their departure from those standards in cents. Completely fascinating and unbelievable:D
@@hannesh.3349 Oh yes Jacob Collier is great, but I didn’t know he was able to discern just intonation. (Is it relative to a fundamental pitch?) What a mad lad.
@@Fanchen Well, there are videos of him showing how "out of tune" a piano is by singing the justly tuned third of a major triad, he also explains his use of just intonation in his Logic Session for "Moon River":D That guy is an absolute alien
@@Fanchen I totally agree. I'm a classical piano performance student at university and I happen to have perfect pitch. I had to transcribe a piece played on a middle eastern Santur and it was tuned a half flat lower and I struggled with what usually is a task I find very easy. Anyone can actually develop perfect pitch, I did it by learning to remember notes with how their perfect cadences sounded (e.g. to remember an F I would specifically learn to remember how a V-I perfect cadence in F sounded).
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 Yes, because notes in non-equal temperament won't line with the system that perfect pitchers are used to. But the concept of tuning systems is based around relative pitch-the intervals between related pitches. Having accurate relative pitch would definitely help recognize the tuning difference, as the OP suggests.
Hey, this is great! The notes are tuned differently depending on the context they are in. It's much better than the common lazy approach of just tuning it once according to just intonation so that a single scale sounds good. This has effort. I love it.
I agree with Ian Moore. This is sparkling and spectacular. To my ear, it is only the D# that is a little spicier than is expected, and not even every time I hear it. Over-all, the intonation is lively-- even vibrant.
@@ValkyRiver Fascinating that you selected tones from 53-TET to approximate just intonation. I would have called it 53-TET in the title. I also noticed the "spicy D-sharp," which isn't that jarring because it resolves upward to the mediant. Thanks for the excellent work. It's a real treat to hear these new and (mostly) improved intervals.
It’s just out of tune. This tuning system was created by mathmeticians, not musicians and it is painfully clear. This system doesn’t work in the slightest because it is the ratio between the frequencies that determines how accurate the intonation is, not the frequencies themselves.
@@MiloMcCarthyMusic yeah, because the equal temperament was not devised by mathematicians, all those twelfth roots of two are definitely something very familiar with the everyday intuition. The just intonation is derived by the natural harmonic series, so in principle should be the more "in tune one", and it actually is, as long as you use it only for the key it's tuned for. And it's also something you can notice in everyday listening, because just intonation is still widely used: for example, if you listen to many jazz or blues pieces, you see how the thirds on the piano are totally out of tune with respect to voice, trumpets, guitars, and other various instruments. First trivial one that comes to my mind: in "everybody needs somebody" the natural E that starts the piece is unbearably out of tune on a normal piano, with respect to the recordings.
@@MiloMcCarthyMusic now I reread it and have a question: isn't it the case that the frequency itself does not matter, rather the relationship (usually ratio) that matters? As in, it doesn't matter if you take A=440 or 432, as long as the relationship between other notes is preserved, it's the same?
Right? I feel like nowadays since perfect pitch is a meme, people are trying so hard to make it worse than it really is. We can focus on music too, not just notes.
Yeah Gould would have loved computers, he’d have spent 3/4 of his time on Sibelius/musescore, so sad that he could have actually gotten to it but died too young 😔
The notes are all the same, just has modified pitch such that the ratio is a simple whole number so you can't hear much dissonances. Compare the dissonances of any other performance using a regular piano, say, Seong-Jin Cho, and this one.
The difference between usual 12et and just intonation can be very subtle, and less noticeable when instrument's tone is soft like flute maybe, or when reverberation is used, you can try to listen some harpsichord music in different tunings if you wish to hear the difference more clearly
I only play cello and sing (all with only relative pitch) and this really sounded absolutely intuitive to me lol. Like, I can hear the Bb changing tuning in measure 33, but it just makes sense -- of course you'd need to tune it to a different chord! You pianists are the weird ones!!!
I love hearing what music back in the day actually sounded like ... what Bach would have heard, could he have heard Chopin ... and that is the most beautiful tonic I have EVER HEARD. I see why people just LOVE C major now, while in equal temperament it never made sense...
I was looking for this, unsterstanding that it was technically possible. Something at in bar 8 sounds vile to my ears, but in places this is sublime. The run down in bars 24 and 25 sounds beautiful. Not a sound I've ever heard. Well done for taking the time!
very off notes every once in a while. i have almost perfect pitch and it hurts my very existence to listen to this. it sounds great for a while then BOOM off note.
Perfect pitch doesn’t necessarily mean “out-of-tune” notes are painful to hear. I have perfect pitch and I like to listen to quarter tone music because it challenges my ear.
We use a tuning system that is flawed but allows us to play in all keys. This video uses a tuning system that fixes the out of tune chords, feels really weird to hear as an experienced musician.
Well, "just" as I'd expect, major and minor triads *klingen natürlich,* and diminished and augmented triads *klingen schreklich!* The sevenths are interesting: major sevenths lack what I consider to be their characteristic "bite," and minor sevenths seem very compressed -- except that, for some reason, the G7 chord with the suspended 4th in bar 37 *klingt absolut himmlich* to my ears! (By the way, the person who produced this must have used a million tricks -- and spent a million hours! -- to get a Sibelius playback to sound this much like a human performance! Kudos!)
I find it really difficult to work with a 7-limit version, because then I would have three different minor sevenths to deal with, and the fact that 12-TET doesn’t approximate 7-limit harmony well.
it sounds very good, but it is possible to hear that the intonation is damped with millimeter variations in feruquency. With a good pair of headphones you can hear the most pronounced variations in: 0:23-0:24 1:01 1:36-1:37 2:00
Just intonation preserves the correctness of the intervals but not the pitches of individual notes. If you keep the perfect pitches, the intervals go funny when the modulations are remote. This is what I hear every time I play this piece. However, if the intervals are perfect, the pitches go funny, and that’s what you hear here. Guess there’s no perfect solution. The historical wisdom since JS Bach is to preserve the integrity of the pitches. I think it’s the right call.
Yes, because music is not a series of discrete events. Since music unfolds over time, everything is heard in a context -- and not just a harmonic context. The troublesome D# in bar 7, for example, is perhaps not so much a harmonic event (an augmented fifth to the dominant bass) as a melodic one, connecting the D's of bar 7 to the E's of bar 8 -- in which case, we might prefer to hear it as a literal half-step, exactly half-way between the D and the E!
Don’t let your perfect pitch get in the way. I have it too, but just step back and listen to the music instead of comparing it to what you’re used to. It shouldn’t be a different listening experience compared to someone with relative pitch.
It should be better with perfect pitch. Clearly a lot of people in this comment know little to nothing about just intonation. I mean, the piece doesn’t modulate out of c major so it sounds pretty much equal or even better then 12 tone equal temperament. Even more practical because of computer generated pieces of music, and this is on one such program
Could I make a midi based on this version you made? I want to make a comparison of this piece based of different tuning system. Once I made it, I'll credit you and some other creators of this piece, including the midi version I based on.
I have perfect pitch and I studied this piece almost every day for about a year, but I actually don't feel anything too strange or that makes me uncomfortable. There are some little things that are off, in particular I find the d# at bars 7 and 55 a bit too dissonant, but overall the notes are there. It's not like it's transposed in another key, that would be disturbing for me. It's strange to read comments by people with perfect pitch annoyed by this, I don't get why, it doesn't sound bad to me (it doesn't sound bad considering it's computer generated)
I get what you say. These people make up big words just because the piano is brighter than usual because it's made by computer. There are some notes that change significantly like the D sharp at 0:23 but it's overall just the same. It's similar to what happens when there is a 432 or 438Hz version... It miraculously gets better and "heals you"... Like come on. The changes are often so subtle you don't even notice and are mostly subliminal. They are comparable to infrasounds, they're there but you won't notice.
Why does this sound so weird to me? I don't have perfect pitch only good relative pitch but still I know this is weird? Edit: If I were to describe it, it's like everything is in the wrong colour, or I'm watching a sad movie but the people in it are reading their dialogue in a happy manner that doesn't fit the script.
I don't think it has much to do with the intonation of the notes, rather than with the tone of the piano, it's computer generated so I think that's why you feel something is off. Intonation isn't probably the first difference you would notice if you would compare it to a performance by an actual pianist
D# is a major third above B. The frequency ratio of a major seventh is 15:8, and adding a major third onto it gives 75:32; going an octave down gives D# 75:64.
I don't think I have perfect pitch, but have been called something close to it! Does that count? I just watched Ashkenazy and the piano sounded a little bit twangy, like country music. Am I hearing the difference or just imagining it?
@@ValkyRiver Very interesting! Thanks for letting me know. I'd be super interested in you including 7:4 in some of your retunings at your discretion. I feel it's such an underrated interval! Good luck 👍
@@ValkyRiver I didn't even notice lol I'm not entirely familiar with the piece. I just said it for the memes cause I'm not creative or original in any way lmao. I did enjoy it, though. Thanks for sharing.
No, since each note is tuned based on just intonation, not 12-tone equal temperament. For example, in bars 58 to 59, the A must be spontaneously tuned from 436 to 441 Hz.
Not a real piano, but you could maybe do this on a keyboard, having it adjust the tuning as you go. It would be nice to get in some of the human element.
Just intonation is so much better than equal temperament, and this music was not written for equal temperament because e.t. lacks color and certain qualities that makes the music so much more beautiful.
@@ssmith9745 Chopin used an unequal temperament where they would tune C then a perfect fifth to G then D then A, they would go back and tune E as a just major 3rd and then the rest would be tuned off of that. So you would have a justly tuned C major triad and every other key would have a slightly different timbre and character. This is especially apparent in the key of Ab major since the 3rd is very wide compared to a just 3rd. But F# minor would be very "sinister" and D minor dark and brooding. But G major bright and exciting, etc. I'm not saying that equal temperament is a bad thing, it's impossible to justly tune every single chord on a piano because of physics. And I think it is certainly the best solution we have currently. But some things just sound better the way they were originally intended.
@@evanmisejka4062 Fascinating! What is this temperament called? Do we know that Chopin actively preferred it over other possibilities? (Did he specifically dislike equal temperament?), or was it just what was in use at the time in his musical circles? If Chopin had an interest in key-colours, that might help to explain why he (like Bach, but practically alone among Romantic composers) wrote a set of pieces (the Preludes, Op. 28) in all the keys, and two other sets (the Etudes, Opp. 10 and 25) in which the constituent pieces are paired and grouped, somewhat systematically, according to their keys.
Chopin would have been concerned about (A) the piano being "well tempered" or "in tune", and (B) your hand position. Perhaps not enough for an aural scientist but certainly enough for an artist.
I am a shadow
You are a shadow
duh
No wonder
Hearing this, I no longer regret that I do not have perfect pitch.
Yes, it hurts xd
@@hoosas5998 If we are nitpicking here, then your grammar in your first sentence is off; the first comma should be a semicolon and the proposed statement should be surrounded by quotes. The second comma could also be eliminated.
Also, what you proposed is a different statement. Tepper said that he previously regretted not having perfect pitch, whereas now, he has changed that opinion and no longer regrets it. Your proposal would shift the previous state from one of regret to one of nonalignment as to whether perfect pitch is desirable, and the current state from one of a removal of regret that will continue to an implied state of temporary gladness at lack of perfect pitch for the duration of the video.
I hereby declare you destroyed epic despacito gamer style with facts and logic.
@@FL2070 let’s say hypothetically you’re more of a nerd than I am, then hypothetically, yes, I got gamer destroyed.
It’s actually not bad lol
I have perfect pitch, this affects nothing. I hear intervals in music the same way you do.
It sounds fine and then suddenly there's the most off key note I've ever heard in my life and then it goes backto normal for a while
Right around 1:01, if I'm not mistaken
That's because you can only have just intonation in a specific key so when the piece modulates to some more distant key it can get *out of tune* pretty significantly. This is the reason people started with various tuning schemes, to make all keys sound okay to play in. Here C major sounds great, but it really is only C-major that is in just intonation, everything else isn't really. Can't be because then you would have to constantly adjust the pitch of every note i real time. And if you were to adjust pitch to make it just intonation for every chord and every key in a piece of music then the pitch of A (and everything else) would have to drift up or down with every change in harmony, so the C major you started with wouldn't be the same C major as the one you ended with.
Weird. I read your comment first, then listened to the video, and I didn't even hear the note. It all just sounded fine to me lol
@@JSLing-vv5go Your internal pitch isn’t very accurate then😂😂
@@arivedal Yes, that is D#.
At some point it sounds how everything sounds when you don't sleep the whole night
This is fever dream music for relative pitch. One moment it sounds sharp then flat, and sometimes I can't even hear what the hell is the interval. Brilliant
It makes perfect sense to me, since I do not really rely on these methods of listening/pitch perception.
@@Vextrove no one ‘relies’ on it it’s a skill lol
What is your problem?
@@Vextrove December 19th 2041
@@peterrowan9955 October 28th 2022
Oh man I love hearing the tonic lock in like that, so satisfying
Im just classical music enthusiast and all I know is it kinda sounds different yet its familiar to me, and I find is amusing.
Played in a just tuning wind band for years and it's so satisfying to hear again, thank you!
It seems like people who have “perfect pitch” are only “perfect” in terms of equal temperament lol. I wonder if we had a different tuning system, our ears would be accustomed differently. Those with perfect pitch might be able to distinguish microtones, if they’ve grown up with microtonal music.
You should check out Jacob Collier if you haven't already, his perfect pitch is beyond everything I've ever heard of. He can distinguish not only equal temperament and just intonation, but any note and their departure from those standards in cents. Completely fascinating and unbelievable:D
@@hannesh.3349 Oh yes Jacob Collier is great, but I didn’t know he was able to discern just intonation. (Is it relative to a fundamental pitch?) What a mad lad.
@@Fanchen Well, there are videos of him showing how "out of tune" a piano is by singing the justly tuned third of a major triad, he also explains his use of just intonation in his Logic Session for "Moon River":D That guy is an absolute alien
@@Fanchen I totally agree. I'm a classical piano performance student at university and I happen to have perfect pitch. I had to transcribe a piece played on a middle eastern Santur and it was tuned a half flat lower and I struggled with what usually is a task I find very easy. Anyone can actually develop perfect pitch, I did it by learning to remember notes with how their perfect cadences sounded (e.g. to remember an F I would specifically learn to remember how a V-I perfect cadence in F sounded).
@@alexanderjefferies7740 well, then it's not perfect pitch, rather "absolute pitch" as they call it.
I do not have perfect pitch, but my relative pitch is good enough to very clearly hEar what's happening hEar.
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 I think you mean the opposite, perfect pitch has nothing to do with this
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 Tuning is more directly related to relative pitch.
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 Yes, because notes in non-equal temperament won't line with the system that perfect pitchers are used to. But the concept of tuning systems is based around relative pitch-the intervals between related pitches. Having accurate relative pitch would definitely help recognize the tuning difference, as the OP suggests.
I thought I had relative pitch and I hear no difference with this - I take it there is an E hEar that does or doesn't more like an Eflat or F??
@@alexgu177 I, a perfect pitcher, WAS used to 12TET but now I hear JI notes as the "correct" sounding notes.
Hey, this is great! The notes are tuned differently depending on the context they are in. It's much better than the common lazy approach of just tuning it once according to just intonation so that a single scale sounds good. This has effort. I love it.
In the middle, I even flattened the tonic (C) by a syntonic comma to avoid sounding out-of-tune.
@@ValkyRiver absolute madladdery
I agree with Ian Moore. This is sparkling and spectacular. To my ear, it is only the D# that is a little spicier than is expected, and not even every time I hear it. Over-all, the intonation is lively-- even vibrant.
I used 53 justly intonated pitch classes, corresponding to the notes of 53-TET.
@@ValkyRiver Fascinating that you selected tones from 53-TET to approximate just intonation. I would have called it 53-TET in the title. I also noticed the "spicy D-sharp," which isn't that jarring because it resolves upward to the mediant. Thanks for the excellent work. It's a real treat to hear these new and (mostly) improved intervals.
But anyway, I will have to make a video about 53-TET in the future.
@@ValkyRiver From what I read online, 53 TET is a type of equal temperament, but in this video it looks like you’re using ratios. How does that work?
@@mingzelipiano0920 I defined 53 pitches with ratios in such a way that each pitch corresponds exactly with one note in 53-TET.
0:53 is when it really started to click for me and this became insanely beautiful.
It’s just out of tune. This tuning system was created by mathmeticians, not musicians and it is painfully clear. This system doesn’t work in the slightest because it is the ratio between the frequencies that determines how accurate the intonation is, not the frequencies themselves.
@@MiloMcCarthyMusic yeah, because the equal temperament was not devised by mathematicians, all those twelfth roots of two are definitely something very familiar with the everyday intuition. The just intonation is derived by the natural harmonic series, so in principle should be the more "in tune one", and it actually is, as long as you use it only for the key it's tuned for. And it's also something you can notice in everyday listening, because just intonation is still widely used: for example, if you listen to many jazz or blues pieces, you see how the thirds on the piano are totally out of tune with respect to voice, trumpets, guitars, and other various instruments. First trivial one that comes to my mind: in "everybody needs somebody" the natural E that starts the piece is unbearably out of tune on a normal piano, with respect to the recordings.
@@MiloMcCarthyMusic and 12TET is definitely not devised by mathematics, yeah.
@@FrostDirt nice strawman argument. Read my comment again.
@@MiloMcCarthyMusic now I reread it and have a question: isn't it the case that the frequency itself does not matter, rather the relationship (usually ratio) that matters? As in, it doesn't matter if you take A=440 or 432, as long as the relationship between other notes is preserved, it's the same?
I have perfect pitch, and this is honestly not too bad for the most part. Just don't think about what keys exactly are being played.
Right? I feel like nowadays since perfect pitch is a meme, people are trying so hard to make it worse than it really is. We can focus on music too, not just notes.
D# go brrrr
Easily the most out of place note in the entire piece
@@herobrine1847 I hate listening and meanwhile having in my head C D G cGDHTHHHJJ aaaah it is so frustrating
Mmm it’s pretty bad haha, just not all the time
Perfect pitch is just a freak of memory rather than anything musical since music can never be “in tune”
These tuning experiments only possible by computer must be the future that Glenn Gould envisioned.
Yeah Gould would have loved computers, he’d have spent 3/4 of his time on Sibelius/musescore, so sad that he could have actually gotten to it but died too young 😔
No thank you
1:00 bar 33 - changing Bb - this is the key to playing music on non-fixed pitch instruments well... Great 'shiver' moment
What do you mean by non-fixed instruments?
@@ValkyRiver violin voice wind brass instruments
I don't know jack shit about music theory and I don't care this sounds hella good lol.
Fair enough -- this is more about mathematics than theory anyway. If one thinks it is good, then it is good! Yeah?
I literally cannot tell the difference between this and the original Etude. Maybe I'm an idiot.
The notes are all the same, just has modified pitch such that the ratio is a simple whole number so you can't hear much dissonances. Compare the dissonances of any other performance using a regular piano, say, Seong-Jin Cho, and this one.
@@FrostDirt my ears not working
The difference between usual 12et and just intonation can be very subtle, and less noticeable when instrument's tone is soft like flute maybe, or when reverberation is used, you can try to listen some harpsichord music in different tunings if you wish to hear the difference more clearly
@@alexanderbayramov2626 The difference between just and *53-TET* is WAY subtler...
@@ValkyRiver 53-TET is often seen as "the holy grail of all TETs" since it has EXTREMELY good approximations of most JI ratios.
It’s like playing on my piano during lockdown
The harmonic seventh is great, I don't know why people don't like it.
I actually love how this sounds!
The Ab on bar 59 is missing a ratio. It should be 8:5.
In bar 18, 25:18 should be 25:16
THIS IS AWESOME! I‘ve never been so moved by this piece!
Honestly, the d sharp still makes me the most scared.
This etude is brilliant in any pitch.
Most interesting thing I've seen today, wow
What does it mean? How is it different ?
I should share this to my perfect pitch friend. But here in my village, I'm the only one =
This doesnt have to do anything with perfect pitch, its all relative...
@@kennichdendenn wtf someone just said the complete opposite. I’ve been a pianist for 8 years and idk what to say about this lmao
I really enjoy this
Amazing!!! 🔥🔥👊🏼
Pleeeeeeaaase do more of these
Would’ve been nice to hear a 7-limit interval, but very nice either way! Sounds awesome!
no
I find it really hard to find a place to put a 7-limit interval into music with a lot of circles of fifths, since then 16:9 and 7:4 end up clashing.
I only play cello and sing (all with only relative pitch) and this really sounded absolutely intuitive to me lol. Like, I can hear the Bb changing tuning in measure 33, but it just makes sense -- of course you'd need to tune it to a different chord! You pianists are the weird ones!!!
Took me a while to realise that "just" didn't mean "only"
Xaxa
00:23 The last accidental in the treble line is a real punch - woah....0_o!
it’s really hard to tell the difference without the chords, you can sometime hear the comma between bass and melody
Well, this is in the key of C Major, so the dissonant chords are pretty far away harmonically.
Let’s goo thousandth subscriber!
I will be uploading a 1024 special soon!
@@ValkyRiver 1080 Subscribers special so the art of fugue contrapunctus 14 but Is cursed
I remember trying this then giving up because the syntonic comma.
Brilliant, beautiful, best!
I love hearing what music back in the day actually sounded like ... what Bach would have heard, could he have heard Chopin ... and that is the most beautiful tonic I have EVER HEARD. I see why people just LOVE C major now, while in equal temperament it never made sense...
0:23 (and its recapitulation) that is the _harshest_ yet _softest_ my ear have ever heard of a D# wtf
This is fantastic
chopin definitely mastered equal temperament
1:01 Coward
Seriously though, I love this! I wish there was more content like this on UA-cam... _wink wink_
I was looking for this, unsterstanding that it was technically possible. Something at in bar 8 sounds vile to my ears, but in places this is sublime. The run down in bars 24 and 25 sounds beautiful. Not a sound I've ever heard. Well done for taking the time!
It's the D# in bar 8 that may sound out of tune for some but I personally love it
i have perfect pitch
i have no idea whats going on because it sounds fine to me
What problem do people have here? It's well played and sounds beautiful to my ears...
very off notes every once in a while. i have almost perfect pitch and it hurts my very existence to listen to this. it sounds great for a while then BOOM off note.
Perfect pitch doesn’t necessarily mean “out-of-tune” notes are painful to hear. I have perfect pitch and I like to listen to quarter tone music because it challenges my ear.
We use a tuning system that is flawed but allows us to play in all keys. This video uses a tuning system that fixes the out of tune chords, feels really weird to hear as an experienced musician.
@@user-ge2vc3rl1n The flaws can be reduced significantly with 53 notes per octave instead of 12.
@@ValkyRiver example?
Thanks!
This, is cursed. But I respect the dedication
Great! Now do No.2
Well, "just" as I'd expect, major and minor triads *klingen natürlich,* and diminished and augmented triads *klingen schreklich!* The sevenths are interesting: major sevenths lack what I consider to be their characteristic "bite," and minor sevenths seem very compressed -- except that, for some reason, the G7 chord with the suspended 4th in bar 37 *klingt absolut himmlich* to my ears!
(By the way, the person who produced this must have used a million tricks -- and spent a million hours! -- to get a Sibelius playback to sound this much like a human performance! Kudos!)
Sounds better than equal temperament
It sounds like played in a chinesse toy piano
This is so pretty
It sounds beautiful, feels like this is what music was supposed to sound like all along.
Wait exqueeze me? Suppose to sound like 😭? It sounds out of tune, but you’re probably one of those “A=432 is the true tuning system 🤬” people
Hurt my head a lot
It sounds very clean but a little strange. I do not have perfect pitch and I play piano and violin a little bit
I once tried to tune my own piano and had to get it retuned because it sounded like this.
You know, if you want to play this, the piano must be retuned many times midpiece, e.g. the changing Bb at 1:00
*heavy wyschnegradsky breathing*
I have perfect pitch and this sound is actually cool, even tho it's hurting me
Me up until bar 23: Okay, these intervals are fairly normal, Just Intonation sounds alright so far--
[320:243 F on bar 26]
Me: Excuse me what the fuck
"I bought the whole piano so I'm gonna use it"
May as well! Get one’s moneys worth!
At least you put this one in quotation marks, insinuating that you didn't make the joke. Respect.
the syntonic commas hurt but overall it gives a great feeling! also when 7-limit version?
I find it really difficult to work with a 7-limit version, because then I would have three different minor sevenths to deal with, and the fact that 12-TET doesn’t approximate 7-limit harmony well.
@@ValkyRiver I was thinking just 7:4 for only dominant 7ths and keep it 16:9 or 9:5 for other chords actually
7:4 is a consonance in 7-limit harmony (hence barbershop quartets), but here, it mostly resolves.
Ack!! My perfect pitch ears!! TWKTWJTLWRHKQEUKQUEKQYRK
it sounds very good, but it is possible to hear that the intonation is damped with millimeter variations in feruquency. With a good pair of headphones you can hear the most pronounced variations in:
0:23-0:24
1:01
1:36-1:37
2:00
At 1:01, the Bb changes from 16:9 to 9:5. This was intentional, since it reverses an earlier syntonic comma drift in the opposite direction.
Once you hear it you cannot un-hear it.
This was very nice, do you plan on doing more?
0:14 ouch
idgi what’s bad there? my ears suck
This is phenomenal
Equal temperament was a mistake
Other equal temperaments, like 19, 22, 31, 41, 53, etc. offer so much more harmony than 12.
Equal temperament wasn’t the mistake. Using 12 and nothing else was the mistake.
Just intonation preserves the correctness of the intervals but not the pitches of individual notes.
If you keep the perfect pitches, the intervals go funny when the modulations are remote. This is what I hear every time I play this piece.
However, if the intervals are perfect, the pitches go funny, and that’s what you hear here.
Guess there’s no perfect solution.
The historical wisdom since JS Bach is to preserve the integrity of the pitches. I think it’s the right call.
Yes, because music is not a series of discrete events. Since music unfolds over time, everything is heard in a context -- and not just a harmonic context. The troublesome D# in bar 7, for example, is perhaps not so much a harmonic event (an augmented fifth to the dominant bass) as a melodic one, connecting the D's of bar 7 to the E's of bar 8 -- in which case, we might prefer to hear it as a literal half-step, exactly half-way between the D and the E!
Sounds like aliens playing earthling music.
I have perfect pitch and it's.. Rather disturbing. But great work nonetheless
Anyone with learned pitch also feel the pain, such as myself.
Don’t let your perfect pitch get in the way. I have it too, but just step back and listen to the music instead of comparing it to what you’re used to. It shouldn’t be a different listening experience compared to someone with relative pitch.
It should be better with perfect pitch. Clearly a lot of people in this comment know little to nothing about just intonation. I mean, the piece doesn’t modulate out of c major so it sounds pretty much equal or even better then 12 tone equal temperament. Even more practical because of computer generated pieces of music, and this is on one such program
@@j2bigd590 How would it be better with perfect pitch?
I have perfect pitch and I love this, I don't get why y'all getting so mad lol
Could I make a midi based on this version you made? I want to make a comparison of this piece based of different tuning system. Once I made it, I'll credit you and some other creators of this piece, including the midi version I based on.
You know who also had perfect pitch? Don Larson,of the NY Yankees-he pitched a perfect game in the 1956 World Series-“GOTCHA”!!!!!!!!!
i do not have perfect pitch! the glory
pure math
also pain cuz I have absolute pitch
Chopin Op. 10 no. 1 but you forgot to tune your piano
0:23 😿
This give me extreme anxiety but I don't have perfect pitch
🖤
Sounds like it is haunted by an evil spirit...
Unpleasant stomach butterflies
Is it just me, or did the final C end up slightly lower than the C at the very beginning?
That's the whole point of the video
Weirdly consonant
I have perfect pitch and I studied this piece almost every day for about a year, but I actually don't feel anything too strange or that makes me uncomfortable. There are some little things that are off, in particular I find the d# at bars 7 and 55 a bit too dissonant, but overall the notes are there. It's not like it's transposed in another key, that would be disturbing for me. It's strange to read comments by people with perfect pitch annoyed by this, I don't get why, it doesn't sound bad to me (it doesn't sound bad considering it's computer generated)
I get what you say. These people make up big words just because the piano is brighter than usual because it's made by computer. There are some notes that change significantly like the D sharp at 0:23 but it's overall just the same. It's similar to what happens when there is a 432 or 438Hz version... It miraculously gets better and "heals you"... Like come on. The changes are often so subtle you don't even notice and are mostly subliminal. They are comparable to infrasounds, they're there but you won't notice.
Why does this sound so weird to me? I don't have perfect pitch only good relative pitch but still I know this is weird?
Edit: If I were to describe it, it's like everything is in the wrong colour, or I'm watching a sad movie but the people in it are reading their dialogue in a happy manner that doesn't fit the script.
I don't think it has much to do with the intonation of the notes, rather than with the tone of the piano, it's computer generated so I think that's why you feel something is off. Intonation isn't probably the first difference you would notice if you would compare it to a performance by an actual pianist
@@filippocaccin6920 Nah. I don’t have perfect pitch but it’s really easy to recognise pure intervals by ear.
👏 👏
i don't understsand, is it # sharper higher and b flatter lower in pitch ? like in violin playing ?
C# = 25:24 or 135:128 = 71 or 92 cents
Db = 16:15 or 27:25 = 112 or 133 cents
Here, C# is flatter than Db.
I was ok until D# 75:64
D# is a major third above B. The frequency ratio of a major seventh is 15:8, and adding a major third onto it gives 75:32; going an octave down gives D# 75:64.
1:01 you should hear the Bb shift from 16:9 to 9:5 to undo a comma drift.
@@ValkyRiver Thank you for the explanation! I figured some shenanigans were afoot.
@@ValkyRiver The B flat shift gave me a small hit of serotonin, which I was not expecting
I don't think I have perfect pitch, but have been called something close to it! Does that count? I just watched Ashkenazy and the piano sounded a little bit twangy, like country music. Am I hearing the difference or just imagining it?
Are you using the harmonic 7th in there? I think I hear it and I love it
There are no seventh harmonics (7:4). Instead, I used 16:9 for some reason, probably because I was using 5-limit tuning.
@@ValkyRiver Very interesting! Thanks for letting me know. I'd be super interested in you including 7:4 in some of your retunings at your discretion. I feel it's such an underrated interval! Good luck 👍
If you can play it slowly, then you can play it quickly.
I keep believing in that fantasy !
I slowed down the tempo so that the intonation differences are clearer.
@@ValkyRiver I didn't even notice lol I'm not entirely familiar with the piece. I just said it for the memes cause I'm not creative or original in any way lmao. I did enjoy it, though. Thanks for sharing.
Nice, but can you perform this on piano?
No, since each note is tuned based on just intonation, not 12-tone equal temperament. For example, in bars 58 to 59, the A must be spontaneously tuned from 436 to 441 Hz.
Not a real piano, but you could maybe do this on a keyboard, having it adjust the tuning as you go. It would be nice to get in some of the human element.
I don't have perfect pitch, but this feels extremely odd. It is beautiful but I certainly prefer the original.
Just intonation is so much better than equal temperament, and this music was not written for equal temperament because e.t. lacks color and certain qualities that makes the music so much more beautiful.
My favorite temperament is 53-TET, since it is incredibly close to just, and it’s one-dimensional.
@@ValkyRiver bruh
So what temperament did Chopin prefer then?
@@ssmith9745 Chopin used an unequal temperament where they would tune C then a perfect fifth to G then D then A, they would go back and tune E as a just major 3rd and then the rest would be tuned off of that. So you would have a justly tuned C major triad and every other key would have a slightly different timbre and character.
This is especially apparent in the key of Ab major since the 3rd is very wide compared to a just 3rd. But F# minor would be very "sinister" and D minor dark and brooding. But G major bright and exciting, etc.
I'm not saying that equal temperament is a bad thing, it's impossible to justly tune every single chord on a piano because of physics. And I think it is certainly the best solution we have currently. But some things just sound better the way they were originally intended.
@@evanmisejka4062 Fascinating! What is this temperament called? Do we know that Chopin actively preferred it over other possibilities? (Did he specifically dislike equal temperament?), or was it just what was in use at the time in his musical circles? If Chopin had an interest in key-colours, that might help to explain why he (like Bach, but practically alone among Romantic composers) wrote a set of pieces (the Preludes, Op. 28) in all the keys, and two other sets (the Etudes, Opp. 10 and 25) in which the constituent pieces are paired and grouped, somewhat systematically, according to their keys.
can someone explain me what its suppose to do ?
Chopin would have been concerned about (A) the piano being "well tempered" or "in tune", and (B) your hand position. Perhaps not enough for an aural scientist but certainly enough for an artist.
sounds normal to me.
It just sounds so smooth when it’s diatonic and so coarse when it’s more chromatic. This piano has an interesting texture too, is it digital?
It's impossible to do if it's not digital ;)
it sounds the same to me