I've done a lot of sports and martial arts. Nothing destroyed my body like the ten years of doing nothing I did after I had kids. Stay active, stay strong, don't overdo it. But all of it is better than the atrophy your body experiences from sitting on your butt.
40 year old black belt. No surgeries. The older ive gotten, the more selective I am with my partners, and the more strength & conditioning training I do (“pre-hab”). And I roll smooth. Don’t fight life n death for positions in training. Keep it playful. Warm up. Staying consistent (don’t take long periods off). So many things play a part in not getting injured. Helio was rolling at 85. I roll more now than in my 20s. It just requires more diligence.
Yes. I think the key to longevity in any sport, recreational or pro, is taking time off and doing prehab, as you call it. Gotta respect physics, gravity, and old age. They will beat us all in the end, but if you know more about the ways the can hurt you, proper preparation can give a few more good innings.
Good point. I will do the same in the future. Some cannot roll with intelligence and technically. The problem is only when you roll with someone you have never rolled with before. But I will be more consistent. If it hurts someone's ego, so be it. But will say no to some dudes.
Well said! I'm 44, train 5 days a week in bjj, 2 days in boxing , and lift and do cardio for three. Anyone who trues to harm me , or gets to rough, I talk to once if they know no better, then I won't toll with them again, if they do know better, well lol humble pie is my favorite gift. I hold multiple powerlighting records currently, and I've been boxing six I've been old enough to walk, my dad was a boxer and took my in my stroller and once I could walk taught me the gift of quick rat shots to the kidneys or liver and how hard they are to prove were on purpose.
@@theblishknovk Kickboxing. You can learn dozens of combos, kicks, knees, but spar rarely. No one is twisting on your joints constantly. Most fun cardio ever.
@@timexcape7961 you can do the same in Jiu Jitsu as well. You dont have to do the real thing if you dont want to. I roll with a much older gentleman with a bad knee. "Not jiu jitsu related" and we just go thru the forms and motions. We learn and get good work out that way as well. But def not the same as the real deal. Kick boxing or any martial art is the same. If you want to do the real deal, risk is 100% involved.
@@timexcape7961 you can do the same in Jiujitsu, you dont have to do the real thing, i roll woth an older gentleman sometimes with a bad knee "not jiujitsu related" and we go through the forms and methodology and get a great work out in and learn. Same as any martial art. If you decide to do kick boxing for real, the risk will go up greatly. Same as jiujitsu.
I've been doing this for a really long time in traditional Chinese Kung Fu, and one thing I've found out over the years is that every sport under the sun from MMA to golf to badminton to high school wrestling can damage the body if done incorrectly. Not only every martial art but EVERY sport.
Not just incorrectly, but there are often overuse injuries that athletes often have to deal with, even with correct technique. It's just because of the nature of sports, since there are a lot of repetitive actions involved, and very few people actually do complementary exercises to avoid those overuse injuries.
@@357_SWAGNUM_MAGA_X Golfer's elbow injury is named because it's a common injury that can happen playing golf. So, golf wouldn't be excluded for overuse injuries.
@@rohitchaoji very true. Pitching a fastball the correct way is one of the most ergonomically incorrect things a human body can do. Which is why a lot of high school baseball players are getting elbow surgery.
As a martial artist of almost 30 years I 100% disagree. Experience includes TKD, wrestling, Judo, MMA, muay thai/kickboxing, BJJ and the worst injuries I have gotten were from BJJ as well as injuries I've seen others get. In striking, if someone is going too hard you can cover up and say "woah stop take it easy" without taking major damage. In BJJ, by the time you are in danger it's often too late to yell "stop". Most injuries don't even come from another person. They come from repetitive stress on certain areas and your body being in unnatural positions. Striking doesn't include any unnatural use of your body except making sure you pivot your base leg and turn your hips while doing a round kick. In BJJ you are constantly bending and twisting in ways that cause stress and damage. Your knee isn't supposed to be side-loaded but in positions like De LA Riva or X Guard you can injure your own knee from the bad angle and pressure on it. I have seen many injuries happen this way. I can't even do triangle chokes anymore because of the stress it puts on my knee. People end up with repetition injuries in their necks and don't realize it until it slowly creeps up on them over time. You never hear of boxers with bad hips or ankles. Boxers might have arthritis in their hands but old BJJ guys have arthritis in their entire body including parts they didn't know existed.
I have a bad hip injury from skateboarding and it is manageable with correct preparation and stretching. I did one session in BJJ and immediately saw how the hip would NOT enjoy the experience. TKD was fine, judo was okay, BJJ was sustained pressure in the wrong zone.
I train BJJ for two years I had several small injuries like fingers/toes/shoulder, and for a while it caused me a chronicle back pain that made take a break. I’ve been doing striking for a year and haven’t had any injuries besides bruises. In my experience striking causes less injuries.
8 years of BJJ. 5 years in the second major MMA gym in my city. One semi serious injury, but I've seen the same accidents so I always prioritized getting great at defense before anything else. You have to not focus on athleticism. Tap strong and often. Don't be embarrassed about it. I'm a four stripe purple and will still tap to these MMA wrestlers that have to prove a point to themselves.
if you put your ego and insecurity at the door. You can train without injuries, softly and efficiency. I have a friend he would steamroll, rush me at our first week of BJJ, I had more experience than him but i was just letting go cause I wanted to train BJJ correctly and do the instructor move without turning in a brawl injuring my friend or me, cause I could have defended, apply pressure but for what purpose... He was compensating for his amateurism while i knew i knew i could do stuff but not without injuring him cause I wasn't experienced enough in BJJ compared to MuayThai or Judo where i could have 'managed'. People are soo ego sensible :P
good luck with that... try tapping when someone jacks your knee up... it's not a matter of If... but when... as a 14 year black belt... never with knee injuries.. it finally happened... sorry to say it - but this "Sport" is more like a cult... and brainwashes everyone in it to stay and train every day.. just so they can pay their bills and open more gyms... and help bring more brazillians over on work visas..
I was a martial arts enthusiast for about 3 decades: I tried just about everything just for the fun of it. I enrolled in jiujutsu, and, by the second month, I had my knee bent 90 degrees sideways AND twisted (a guy jumped guard on me and, by reflex, I tried to scape turning my body...). I spent a whole year unable to walk going through surgeries and physiotherapy. Only by miracle I can walk without help today. But I'll never be able to practice any sport or martial arts again. Yeah, jiujutsu fucked me up permanently.
I’m literally disabled and I can still do BJJ despite having trouble walking, that speaks to the versatility of the training, it’s more about communication and finding rolling partners that are not complete A-holes.
A martial arts vlogger recently quit BJJ because he claimed it ruined body. I hear a lot of BJJ guys say this but it's usually people who start it late in life. What type of injuries do you have?
I trained with a young man many many years ago in the exact same situation, He was mostly bound to a chair, but could take a few steps if needed. His first art was sambo however. When he first came to us, he was fairly thin, but by the time he was ready to move on with his life, his upper body was solid rock and he had the grip and climbing ability of a chimp. We were all very impressed with what he could do despite his limitations, and we all learnt from him. It became a drill for us, to start seated, and go after a standing opponent, and not use our legs at all. No one could mimick the strength and strategy he had. It was incredibly difficult. He was a good reminder to us that no matter what limitation we will find in life, we would never give up training.
Craig Jones did a video recently on how, contrary to the jujitsu-saved-my-life meme, it is more realistic to say jujitsu ruined my life. He went through the various injuries one can sustain and the general wear and tear the body takes. Bulletproof for BJJ also did a video on how to avoid serious injury in jujitsu and the general takeaway was that its nearly impossible, unless you're an extremely fit and experienced young athlete who trains in an excellent gym. I think the issue in part is that there really is a huge push regarding the real benefits of jujitsu without much mention of the risk of injury.
My experience has been that it's very possible to avoid serious BJJ injuries if one is moderately fit AND keeps the ego in check AND has responsible partners. I've had 2 sprained ankles, 1 sprained wrist, and 1 sprained elbow. One of the sprained ankles and the sprained wrist were from my own ego of not wanting to tap. 1 of the sprained ankles was dealing with a younger explosive opponent who put me in a foot lock and yanked back (he has since calmed down). The elbow was from an Americana, my training partner let go immediately but he lost balance and fell. I also lift weights twice per week. I routinely stretch or do Range-of-motion exercises daily. So my injuries were temporary and I was even able to train around them. I've had some pretty close calls as well, but I was able to avoid them due to being semi-fit.
Literally the top comment is some guy saying " i do bjj but being sedentary is worse!!!". Condemning everything else with no acknowledgement of it's own cons is just irresponsibly implies its a better alternative. but the comments... : > TRUE!!👏 >preach👏 >slay!!👏
Well Said. As. black belt going on 14 years... this sport will wreck your body.. just so you get a silly black belt... BJJ is like a Cult... they brainwash most their students.. who are already vulnerable to begin with.. many in need of a Father figure... and they milk everyone... Craig Jones is right... BJJ will ruin your life... better off doing anything else... unless you'd like to be a cripple at age 40
There's a video from 2019 (or earlier) from John Danaher talking about safety rules at Renzo Gracie's gym. He strictly prohibts jumping on your training partner including jumping the guard. He doesn't want anyone to run your partner into other people. Ego will get someone and their training partner hurt in striking or grappling martial arts.
Im started bjj at 30 or so. I went to 10 bjj schools over the period of about 4 years. I hated the mentalities of most schools. I had loads of injuries, like dislocated wrist, neck problems, a popped arm by a dumb purple belt. Anyways, I gave up for a year or two, but was still passionate about it. I found gracie university online, did their gracie combatives course and now train at one of their certified training centres. For me its been an absolute joy. I learned more in 6 months doing that course, than in 4 years, not only about techniques, but respectful, non confrontational and helpful training. No injuries at all since back then. I would suggest to anyone to do that course and or train at a ctc near them, and if they can’t, at least find a club that teaches in a cooperative manner. One thing that i always noticed… if the instructors are talking about being better than other clubs, get out of there.
martial arts are for kids, you are suppose to start when you like 7 years old, your body isn't has limber and had already had wear and tear that's why you got injured starting bjj at 30 years old
@@nocap7044 I started martial arts at 6. With judo and karate, and muay thai. I have been a competitive martial artist through my 20's. It's about the intensity you train at and the people who you are entrusting your safety with. You're right about wear and tear at a certain age, but safety and a setting where injury risk is minimised is the point I'm getting at. It all starts with the instructor and the methods used, and then it relies on a decent bunch of people to keep their ego in check while learning.
This is a perfect video for beginners. One of your points that we always try remind some young, new members of our group is how it's good to be patient after a minor injury. We dont want them to make the mistakes of our past, where we'd go to train again even though we were bruised up and had a sore joint. That's when the real injuries happen that force you to stay home. Like the karate knuckles reference, it's about letting the body adapt to what it's facing. To be completely afraid of injury is foolish. If a person's inlove with the art and motion of combat sports training/martial arts, than they don't worry about what's going to limit them, aslong as their being defensive of injury. Myself and all of the guys I train with have a spot or two, or three, that aren't in the same condition they were when we were younger, but once your geared up and ready for training, a combination of a bit of dynamic stretching with an easy going warm up, and it's no longer an issue. Some injuries do take longer than others. I pray your knee recovers soon Ramsey. A few us know all to well of minor knee injuries, but nothing to that degree. With school starting, and other youngsters getting into sport and such, if you have any other tips for begginers in combat sports, and martial arts, it might be a great oppurtunity for them to flow towards your channel to learn.
In striking combat you will get more injuries but most of them will be something that you can recover from.... In BJJ you get less injuries but when one occurs is catastrophic and might change your life.
It's interesting that you talk about the importance of strength and conditioning to prevent injury. I've done a decent amount of muay thai and wrestling, and there's almost always a decent amount time spent on conditioning. In bjj on the other hand, it seems to be a point of pride that particular gyms don't do any at all and participants are expected to do so in their own time.
They should. Oriented training time is extremely valuable and should not be used for conditioning, as the athlete is expected to do it by themselves. Gyms should limit conditioning to 10 min warmups at the start of practice tops. The rest should be totally dedicated to drilling techniques and live training.
I tell my students something I wish I'd applied to myself " It's ok to train when you are hurt, but not when you are injured ". Most of my chronic pain and issues come from not knowing the difference and compounding an injury into something long lasting. Learning to push through pain is very important but so is stopping and getting treatment and recovery time when it's needed.
3 years in BJJ. MCL injury, broken toe here and there. Mostly bruises. If I know I'm gonna get submitted, I tap. It's pretty easy to tell early if you don't have an ego about it. That MCL injury taught me some lessons.
haha your take on white belts is so true ! Sparring with a spazzy newbie in muay thai requires so much more care than with someone experienced ! I think the worst are the 3 month to 1 year newbies, who still suck but learned a few tricks except control.
Same in Judo. Never let two white belts do randoris unmonitored; it's a recipe for disaster. Ideally, adults white belts should not fight until they learn how to relax with a couple months of drills.
There was a recent video (like few months old) of Jesse Enkamp where he trained Kyokushin Karate. In it the easiest spar he got was against the most experienced fighter, just to illustrate what you described.
I was training karate for several years in my youth and had great fun with it. Did other Martial Arts as well. Once, I joined a traditional Jiu Jitsu class. I was absolutely surprised how rough the trainer was with my joints and wrists, just for demonstration. He was surely competent in the techniques, but that was not a fun experience. I did several years of full contact sparring beforehand in my Karate club, so Inthink I was familiar with more intensive training. But Ingot the impression that the jiu jitsu trainer was deciding for me, what my body should tolerate and what not. I did not continue that training and I am quite happy that I am training now with people who understand consent and empathy. It is not the trainers job to decide about your body. You're going to drive it for the next couple of decades, not the trainer.
It’s weird, all the times I’ve been injured, I had a bad feeling right when I started the session. The partner usually gave off an energy, like a kind of determination. I think what was happening was that they had the mindset that they would “win” the sparring session which usually means they will always escalate intensity if you outskill them at equal intensity. My mistake sometime when this happened was that I would lower my intensity to try to bring them down with me but instead they just saw my slack as an opening and they would attack with higher intensity than what I was defending with. The funny thing is I’ve only ever been injured by smaller opponents who probably just assume they can’t hurt me.
Seems like sparring should be about perfecting techniques, getting into fight condition, and getting used positioning viz-a-viz other combatants in a cooperative endeavor. Inside or outside of the gym, people who view everything as a type of inter-personal battle are to be avoided.
I can really relate to this. Always trust the intuitions, i've stopped a few rolls in the middle, lying that i was too tired to continue. But it is also true that instead of de-escalate the intensity one must sometimes be as tough as the opponent to avoid injury.
@@polarvortex3294 yeah, it’s tough to avoid though. I definitely have fallen into the same trap plenty of times. Some people see sparring as a proving ground, and you can tell by how they talk about how well they did in sparring. It doesn’t help that nowadays a lot of sparring is released online and judged but I guess that can be counterracted by how people judge people going too hard as well so maybe overall it’s a good thing. I think it’s really the responsibility of the trainers to regulate how hard people spar though, it’s hard to do when your in it, unless there is a huge skill disparity and you can control the other person with little effort.
I call it my spider sense. A new purple belt came in a couple months ago and I drilled with him. The way he drilled set off my spider sense. I declined to roll with him later. He injured a guy's foot trying a heel hook.
I stopped doing bjj because I was concerned with the amount of injuries I was getting affecting my other training but I still encourage people to try it. It isn't for everyone but it's still for people out there and you don't know until you try things
@@putzerfischtube9658 sounds like asshole training partners. Sadly sometimes it isn't always easy to avoid them. At least you tried it before deciding if it was your thing
Agreed. Also If you're not planning to do major BJJ tournaments or it's not something you necessarily enjoy I would encourage learning it for a period of time but you don't necessarily have to make it your focus once you have the jist of it. Really 6 months to a year and you can learn the basic submissions especially if you did some grappling in the past like freestyle wrestling in highschool (like I did for 4 years). About 8 months in training BJJ I moved on since I'm not planning to be a professional nor did I have a desire to take it further as I was not that interested. I prefer to learn striking and so took up Muy Thai and some boxing. BJJ is effective at what it does (especially when on the ground on your back) but it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea and learning basic submission grappling is more than enough for everyday self defense (in many cases you don't want to be fighting on the ground to begin with if you're required to defend yourself in a public setting). The submissions and joint locks also can certainly wear out your body especially if you're grappling with bad or inconsiderate partners. You're twisting and pulling things in directions they aren't supposed to go while you're also resisting and so if you don't have grappling partners that are wary of that and try to protect your health there can certainly be issues.
I'm trying all kinds of things like wrestling, BJJ, Shikiokushin, Muy-Thai. 0 injuries from wrestling, frequently from BJJ (shoulder for me), Shikiokushin (one serious by applying techniques before learning), Muy-Thai (not serious injuries but can damage 🧠 in long term). Combat SAMBO and Fudokan - close to 0 injuries (except overstretching) but I was very young. Summary - do wrestling if you don't like injuries.
The culture/general attitude of the BJJ school comes largely from the head instructor. If he is safety conscious and encourages others to be, and if he reprimands or expels students who hurt others, then there will be minimal injuries in the school. Students should always take the slack out of locks slowly, and while learning the basics just go through the motions with no competing. One has to be strong in character. Be your own man. You are responsible for your safety. If you don't trust another player then don't wrestle with him. Just decline and sit out for a while. Tell him you don't feel safe with him. Maybe he will change his ways. Some people enjoy inflicting pain, even injury on others. Refuse to wrestle or practice with them. Those characters should be expelled. Many old players like me are past competing but like to go through the motions and roll around grooving the patterns but our bodies carry injuries or aged joints so we cannot go hard and have to avoid having certain limbs, back or neck targeted. Few younger players can be trusted so oldies like me have to practice with each other.
Ramsey is spot on, training partners are key no matter what the art. I've trained bjj, boxing, muay thai and been blessed with good training partners and academies and to be honest I've still gotten more injuries from striking, also giving your body time to recover is crucial.
This has been a topic for a while, I heard in Judo and wrestling I believe it's worst though. I practiced boxing non-competitively for 2 years without a singled injury(in my 40's), when I has in my early twenties I was just a BJJ blue belt and I had hurt my knee, ankles, shoulders, neck. Not from not tapping, but just grappling and something suddenly hurts. My friend joined Judo as well and he told me people are expecting their ACL to get blown at some point.
I do think that Judo is the worst, because there's a certain minimum impact with the throws that can't be mitigated. BJJ is usually the judoka graveyard, where old judoka go to practice a less high impact sport when they can't do ti anymore. For me it was multiple concussions over the years in Judo that made me have to hang it up, because now if I get a realtively light imapct, I get post concussive symptoms for a while. I hate it because I like Judo much better than BJJ, especially what bJJ has become (think butt-scooting, guard pulling, starting from knees etc), but what can ya do
@@---tx9xx Sorry to hear that, I agree you have to stop, it's not a trivial matter. I am in my 40's and back in the 90's when I first started martial arts (or perhaps this was always the case) People would constantly shit on TMA, but looking at it now, I would take a point-sparrying version of BJJ/Judo/Wrestling if it exists. I got hurt doing BJJ like you said, barely usable ground techniques, and quitting after bluebelt. Can I armbar someone from the guard doing ground and pound? F-No. But look at the Shotokan karate guys how they keep their practice and longevity, a lot these JKA competition footages people actually have speed, balance, cardio and timing. It's a win for TMA. The other thing is I still wanna have the ability to really defend myself. Given what we know about MMA now, simple boxing, some shooting takdowns and some clinch/ bodylock throws, Z-guard/half guard for MMA, that's still a lot of shit to master. There are no schools out there that lets you learn that without getting hurt.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm not sure I share your conclusions though, in that if anything I think I support as far from what you call TMA from possible towards sports stuff, such as grappling, sambo, wrestling, and paradoxically it's BJJ in the USA that often has this "TMA" mentality sometimes of formality, respescting belt rank, etc. I find the basic BJJ techniques to be very usable, i mean like 1990s or gracie academy ones, not this sport guard shit, and combined with some takedowns. My main motivation now to train is a) physical conditioning, because I really don't enjoy any other type of exercise besides randori/rolling and b) some mental aspect, as I do feel you forget any other problems in your life when rolling against someone else, I just wish I didn't have to suffer through warm ups and drills to get there, but most gyms won't let you just come and roll. Now I just have to decide whether to enroll my own kids in JUdo or in BJJ. In the USA today Judo is pretty rare and BJJ is on every corner, but I do think Judo is more effective and better to learn as a kid, as well as good breakfalls, but I dunno about the injury potential... anyway..... late night musings.. best regards to you. WHere in the world are you buddy?@@hong-enlin4651
2018-2021 (with a year off during the pandemic, obviously) I started training BJJ with my friend who’s an amateur MMA fighter as a total beginner. After about 3.5 years I developed a herniated disk on my L5, pinching the S1 nerve, and I now have bone spurs on the L5 and L4 disks. I’ve had surgery and am a little better, but my back is too weak to be explosive, so ironically I got into BJJ to learn to defend myself and now I’m less capable of defending myself because of my back. Overall, I’d say BJJ was detrimental experience in my life and would discourage people from training. Save your money and get a normal gym membership and please exercise safely.
@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 I’m 100% certain it was my weightlifting paired with Jiu-Jitsu, however, I can’t tell you for certain if it was one or the other specifically. From my own experience, though I had fun, I would recommend doing some other activity.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356if you're a tall guy (6'3" - 6'6", or taller), I would recommend that you try another martial art that isn't BJJ. It puts a tremendous amount of wear an tear on your lower back and the neck. At 26 years old, and I already have lower back and neck issues because I did jiu jitsu and played american football, on top of working as a non-dexterous construction laborer.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 I once thought the same, but there comes a point were strength is easily negated by technique, experience, speed and flexibility. All which favor small people. Tall guys like me (and taller) have a huge disadvantage when performing takedowns and being in bottom full guard. As someone who is between 6'5.5" and 6'6" and 220 pounds, I can realistically say that I won't be able to do half the takedowns, and getting out of the bottom is a real struggle against smaller opponents who have technique, experience and flexibility. The only thing in jiu jitsu that may favor us tall guys is submissions and some transitions from the top. Nothing else. So the narrative that jiu jitsu favors tall guys is mostly bullshit, with very few exceptions.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 honestly, if you do cardio, strength training and flexibility training, you may minimize the risks as a smaller person. But that isn't a guarantee. I'm not going to be a snake oil salesman selling you a bunch of lies. You will likely have less wear and tear than a taller person, but as a shorter person you will need to focus on the wear and tear in your elbows and shoulders. In my case, I just started practicing karate last Wednesday because my neck and lower back can't take anymore wear and tear. Between jiu jitsu, american football and working as a non-dexterous construction laborer, I received all the wear and tear my body can handle; which is why I am 26 years old, but have the wear and tear of someone who is between 35 and 40 years old.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 The best advice I can give you is to weight the pros and cons after you take one free trial jiu jitsu class. If you like it, go for it, buy be conscious of the wear and tear it may have on your elbows and shoulders. One thing that may help greatly reduce the wear and tear is to tap on time, don't play hero like I did.
BJJ has kept me flexible, quick, agile, and pain free. Before I did BJJ my hips were starting to hurt and I was afraid I might wind up with hip replacement. After doing BJJ the pain is gone and I feel great for 60 years old. If you know you have been caught in a submission then tap early. I don't try to prove I can fight out of a locked in kimura or knee bar in a practice session. I have done BJJ since 2011. I don't have any pain from it.
Everything Ramsey said here was on the button. One thing I'd add is that I think BJJ weakens your joints over time - with striking arts you have the danger of hyper extension when you kick and punch but this is relatively rare. In jiu jitsu when you hold someone in a position i.e. closed guard or triangle (just a couple of examples) - your opponent is trying to get out or you're trying to finish the sub - both of you end up wiggling your joints in their sockets, straining against each other. Over time this weakens them which is why controlled strengthening - i.e. lifting is SO important - more important even than striking arts. You need to tighten them up. I got two dislocated knees - since I started BJJ - my knees had always been bullet proof before. Granted I'm older - but I don't know that dislocations are necessarily increased with age. I put it down to doing a lot of BJJ and micro-tweaking the joints over the past 7 years or so but who knows. What I know is that doing some strengthening through a lifting program outside of class makes me feel so much more 'put together' for want of a better description. I also follow all of RD's advice - I'm older (46), I don't push myself and recently I've decided to pick some of the people I roll with - I don't care if people think I'm lazy or a coward etc... I take my time on the mats as a precious gift, not as a given, and it's more important to me than any egotistical measurement.
I started with 'self defense' and 'combat sports' late in my 40s. (I started with Krav Maga, realized that it has it's limitations and started jiu jitsu.) My biggest pains are from the jiu jitsu and ground work from Krav Maga. My fingers, wrists, joints, and back will hurt for days afterwards. Most of it, I think, is from instructor and some of the opponents. They don't seem to care if they go just a bit too far, whereas I try my best to not actually hurt someone in training. (I sometimes wonder if the instructor dislikes me on a personal level.) I think I may switch to try boxing. Less malicious cranking of the joints.
Yikes! I'm glad you are fine now. It is something that I've observed with this coach, he's gentle and laid back with some people, but harsh and critical of others. The coach I was dealing with criticized me in front of others during a testing phase. @@isupportthecurrentthing.1514
This honestly seems to be a growing issue in BJJ. That’s not knock the martial art, but definitely a criticism of the culture. Even around me, there are a lot of places that don’t take it seriously. And I don’t mean necessarily mean that in a “hobbyist versus professional” sense but in the sense too many people think of it as “play time” even when the goal is submitting people… The culture of many BJJ places has swung super hard into this… I don’t even know… realm completely lacking in structure? Like you ask people to warm up or stretch before rolling or to communicate with partners better and you very literally will hear the response “I’m Just a hobbyist bro” Idk, at least in America, a lot of BJJ gyms have this anti-traditionalism, lais sez faire attitude paired with a very consumerist attitude. This tends to make a lot of places almost devoid of strong authority. It also means that people show up and pay monthly fees kind of thinking of the gym like an amusement park-like the place and people are just something they paid for so they are entitled to do whatever. Again, I don’t know. The reason I backed out of BJJ and went full time into Judo, ironically, is that BJJ guys seem way, way more likely to do stupid shit with zero oversight. Judo-ostensibly the “less safe” art-puts a lot of emphasis on doing things by the book and mutual respect. I’ve tried to get BJJ guys to come over but you always get excuses about safety or how Judo “bows and shit.” I suspect some of this might have to do with younger people in BJJ combined with the BJJ “brand” being pretty hands off. At least in America, too, the popular discourse has gotten to a place where people basically think all TMA are bad and everything they do is bad, so any tiny hint of that in BJJ or Kickboxing or whatever and suddenly the gym is a “cult” lol. Like I have my fair share of criticisms of TMA, but packaging mutual respect and concern for your partners in with a martial practice is not cult behavior… that’s being a decent human being and actually keeps your training partners in class longer.
Ten years of Judo and not one injury. Varsity wrestler all four years of high school and not one injury. One month of BJJ and my injuries are numerous...both knees, shoulder, neck and ribs.
Would also like to say I never saw anyone else at my Judo Dojo get injured either. But then again that might be because it was world class with with one of the best sensei in the the world and many national, world and several olympian competitors.
I used to hurt myself during my first few years of doing BJJ. I still go hard, but just somehow changed and adapted my style according to some intuitive sense of what's going to hurt me. Just as an example, if there is a choice between triggering an arthritis flare-up in my knuckles for 3 weeks, or let go and lose a wicked Spider guard sweep, just let go and do something else...
Junior (white2) BJJ guy here. I'm 50. The reason BJJ isn't giving me a 90 year-old body is because at my age, I am committed to not being committed to BJJ. I tap early and often and am just there to learn and practise technique. I religiously train aikido Mondays and Fridays, then BJJ whenever I can fit it in on the other days.
Donn Draeger called judo “the great crippler”. Old judo players end up doing ne waza (groundwork) a lot, so we tend to find bjj pretty chill and easy on the body in comparison. Bjj is probably the easiest grappling sport on the body.
@@EthanNoble also crash pads, also there's a reason why judokas do the technique drills in massive rep numbers at the "grip + step in" level - working the kuzushi versus the actual slam
When I was younger I would let submissions go too long because I didn’t treat it as a checkmate. That definitely affected my body. But injuries I got were from dynamic movements, takedowns, opponents passing when I was defending and popping a rib attempting to escape a bow and arrow choke. The older and more experienced I’ve gotten the more caution I take in defending early and tapping when I’m caught. (Meaning I’m not escaping the position that the submission is applied) I’ve also learned when to a transition when I’m escaping and defending passes. Also I will adjust who I roll with. There are days where I avoid rolling with certain team mates.
@@christophervelez1561 Seems like we have to learn many things in life the hard way... But one guy, it is said, learned your lesson in his very first match -- and then took it further! This was Jose Capablanca, the famous Cuban chess master. The legend is that in all his long career he was never once checkmated, because he always saw many moves ahead and resigned before things got that far. That would be so funny if in a BJJ match one guy (who seemed to be doing OK) suddenly stopped, stood up, and shook his opponent's hand, conceding defeat because he saw a tight armbar coming a minute ahead. He'd keep his shoulders in top shape into old age!
I 100% agree and understand the fact that in the end gyms are trying to make money. I have trained in multiple gyms and not one of them had a serious talk about taking care of your training partners.. unless someone got seriously hurt.
I had a little injury a while back. I've been doing BJJ for about 5 months now, and just starting to see improvement. I was training with a completely new guy and he injured my elbow joint a bit. When I got home, I just wrapped my elbow in athletic tape and rested it. I even skipped a day at the gym to let it rest. Thankfully, my elbow is better than ever and I'm still going to BJJ practice. BJJ is dangerous when your partner has no idea what they're doing
It's like you said, you need good training partners. I'm lucky that in my gym there is a very good atmosphere and I enjoy rolling a lot. I'm 44 years old, started BJJ this year so I'm also a white belt. From my little experience I can say: Rolling with other white belts requires the most force, and it is the most uncontrolled. Still I get good roles, sometimes I tell other newcomers to slow down, conserve energy and be more controlled. It's not about winning, it's about learning. You need to take out the fear of loosing, then those people also relax. I learn a lot of rolling with blue belts, but enjoy most rolling with purple belts. They are so calm, giving me opportunities like letting me pass the guard, getting the back, etc. putting themselves into bad positions. This way I can get more experience and they train escaping from bad positions. A win-win situation. After the role they often give me valuable tips what I did wrong or can improve an. Just a cool sport. @ramsey: I would love to hear more about prehab and rehab in BJJ ;-) Thanks for your good videos.
I must admit, I've had something of a similar experience. I lift weights, used to powerlift and have practiced various kinds of Muay Thai or kickboxing over the years. I've been doing BJJ for about a year now and I find that my shoulders more than anything else get impingements or cranked etc. I find this tends to be from better but smaller guys than myself. Like they think because I'm a bigger strong guy they have to really put on the kimura or Americana, and the intensity of the leverage just tears my shoulders and the tendons around it. I think it's a case of me having fairly injury prone shoulders from the various modalities of training with their intensity. It is super disheartening though having to take weeks and weeks off from lifting, thai boxing and BJJ because some smaller more experienced guys just want to put it on the bigger guy.
Is there also a possibility you're not tapping soon enough because you're less willing to tap to 'smaller guys'? Tapping early and often is the best injury prevention method in BJJ.
@@johnmcdonagh374 Possibly but, not because I don’t want to tap to smaller guys. Generally I tap once I know I can’t get out and soon as I feel pain. Most people at my Thai gym are smaller there’s one or two bigger at bjj but I’m fairly used to getting hit or submitting to smaller guys. But one or two of them will crank certain moves on really strong, really fast. To the point I have little opportunity to tap! Some things I tap super early specifically as I have ongoing issues (like shoulders and even chokes as I’m a classical singer) but other things I will wait, try to get out and then if I can’t get out or it hurts I’ll tap.
@@LeeJCander These people are being bad training partners. You should try to talk to them, or avoid rolling with them. In practice every submission should be held without pressure for at least a beat (say two to three seconds) then pressure should be applied slowly and evenly. If this means your training partner wriggles free of an arm bar you could have got, then a. who the hell cares, and b. this means your control isn't good enough (and practice is a great place to practice control).
@@LeeJCander ya if they're yanking and don't give you a chance to tap then you need different training partners. But, if you're waiting until you feel pain before you tap to a joint lock eg. Armbar, kimura, Americana, foot lock, then that is too late. If you feel pain you're already allowing them to do damage. You need to tap when you know the submission 'is in'. The same way you shouldn't wait until the lights are going out to tap to a choke. Knowing when 'its in' is based on feel and takes some experience to understand. However, you should ask your coach to go through different subs with you and get him to show you at what point you should be tapping. Pain is not a good messenger in this scenario.
Doesn't matter if it's a smaller guy, tell them that you've got bad shoulders and not put it on, let them know you know when to tap! If they still do it, then they're assholes, don't roll with 'em again :(
I've been hurt more in bjj more than any other martial art. I think it comes from people hearing bjj is safer so they try harder and ignore safety but it definitely depends on the people. I've seen people come and go because they go too hard at the gym I was at. I should also say martial arts hurt you in different ways. I find muay thai is more bruises and harder cardio but grappling leads to more sprains and more muscles being sore.
I dabbled with BJJ for a while, loved every second on the mats, but got injured every time I trained. Only minor things, but I got out quick before a major injury happened. As a fit strong and healthy middle-age dad, I don't need it in my life enough to let it mess my body up. I think there should be more messages of caution to would-be trainees. I don't just mean, "these are the steps you can take to reduce risk of injuries". I was doing all of those. I mean more like: "you will get injured and sooner or later, badly. Is it worth it to you?". If it is worth it to you, great, go for it.
Good for you. Many can’t see this and learn the hard way. I loved every minute on the mat but eventually came to realize that it’s not good for your body.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 I started noticing that I was getting stiffer over the years. Especially my neck and back from all the pressure that was being put on my by my training partners. Then I started noticing how so many people who were doing BJJ around me all had this weird stiffness of their neck. They couldn’t naturally turn their heads. They’d often have to turn their bodies as well. I’d wake up in the morning with hands and feet stiff from all the grip fighting and overall pressure that I was using in dealing with opponents. Soaking them in warm water helped to relieve this. Then there were the obvious injuries that were occurring and that were taking longer and longer to heal because I’m older now. If I was a spring chicken, I’d bounce back in a hart beat but that changes with age. Finally, I studied Chinese medicine and worked in a clinic that dealt with a lot of muscular skeletal problems. I was seeing patients come in with long term injuries and just messed up bodies due to years of repetitive motions. Many of these people were messed up and the chances of them getting better seemed to decrease rapidly with age since many of them seemed to be unwilling/unable to make some serious changes in their lives. Sometimes it was because they’d invested so much time, energy, money, effort, ego…their whole existence into whatever it was they were doing and that was causing their body to breakdown. I have a friend who’s been doing BJJ for almost 10 years now. He loves it and I understand why. He’s also a hair away from his knee blowing out and possibly needing life changing and very costly knee surgery. It’s not if, but when. I’ve warned him, but he’s too invested in it. We all have to make peace with the fact that we’re getting older and one day will die. I’ve accepted that and have made decisions to make sure I go off into the sunset (whenever that is) in as best of a body as possible. No point in wrecking your body and then spending several decades in pain, suffering, and miserable. There are many like that. The best defense is to stay healthy.
I was like this two with my shoulders every times I wrestled it would mess up but resistance bands saved my shoulders I’m using them on my knees now to prevent knee injuries
I am 36y old judoka, french champion veteran 35/40y -60kg, and I am considering more and more the idea of stopping judo or limiting it to a very occasional practice, because my body is falling apart.
did someone ever made a tierlist of most "body preserving MA" or "least body destroying MA" ? this video would kind of prompt such a tierlist video, maybe you can collab with other martial artist (for example that group from that self defense champion season 1 thing, which was great btw)
with possible exception of starting bjj as a teenager or college athlete and only doing it for 10 years while being careful, bjj/mma is where you trade your joint and tendon health for the ability to beat people up. If you still want to do it, the best way to reduce the risks is when you're a beginner with less than 6 months or a year, because you won't even know when you've done some lasting damage. Only do moves as a beginner that you've drilled and practiced in person, don't try and do moves that you've simply seen other people do, especially involving rolling or falls or big, fast movements. Don't just tap when you feel a choke coming on or feel the joint is locked out, tap as soon as their is any discomfort from a neck attack or they have your joint isolated even if they haven't reached the end range yet. Similarly , any situation or sweep or throw that you don't recognise, don't resist it, just let it happen and only think about moving your body parts to safety out of the way of them landing badly or something. Move smoothly and with control only use explosive movements for situations you have been taught and drilled These rules are very hard to follow as a beginner because sparring is fun. I didn't, i wasn't even told most of them or was told them in passing and given different advice by others, but now my range of motion in my neck is less than it was before I started. It will be very frustrating watching people who joined later than you start submitting you because they roll more aggressively and experimentally and gain experience more quickly, but if you do this for your first 6 months or a year you'll cut down on so much of the danger of accumulated damage
It's not the system that brutalises you, it's a sadistic/careless/can't control his aggressive students he should ban - instructor and the sociopathic students that do it. A good friend has found nothing but saftey and community in the BJJ he's been doing for 10 years. I nearly had my spine broken, knee trashed, and another friend had a career ending shoulder break from where we used to train. Conversely at 45 I'm more into grappling now (started over) as getting hit just hurts now, my body is too rigid. You will make greater gains at safer clubs.
I'm primarily a striker myself, learned a few BJJ moves back in the day from the old Gracie VHS training videos tried them out and found them very effective and I was intrigued. However I never had the opportunity to seriously train BJJ for a long time after that and by the time it became more popular and the opportunity was there I found myself hesitant because I have heard this exact same sentiment echoed by many BJJ practitioners. Not so much from the training alone where injuries do occur as in any martial art but they would give you a heads up that if you have any aims on doing BJJ competitively you may as well brace yourself for the impending injuries, some of which will likely stay with you forever.
You can try and comfort yourself, cope... Bur day will come when you'll regret it, one day when you can't put your socks on, can't bend your back... It's better to exercise and be healthy than to ruin your body through twisting your joints for fun. It's less damaging to lose a fight than to destroy your body over decades.
I've had many small injuries from bjj. It was always my fault. I had an entire sports career before joining jiu jitsu and my ability to understand where my body needs to be or more importantly where my body isn't in a safe position or at greater risk took time. Freak accidents happen. I've popped my shoulder out multiple times from slipping on sweat laden mats and then reinjuring it from larger opponents. The reality is, I didn't have to try so hard and could've rolled at 50%-70% and just gave up positions/negating their game and only turning it up with training partners I trust. Most people you'll train with wont be aware enough themselves to not hurt you.
Training for 4.5 years here (I’m 40), and so far no real injuries. I was training 4-5 times/week for a long time, now it’s only 2-3. I have no doubt that if I were training every day, it would destroy my body. Rest is important. Listening to your body is also important.
Vast majority of BJJ trainees are casual practitioners, and the risks of BJJ are absolutely not obvious to them when they start. Not only is it not obvious, but because of the absence of explicit violence, and its marketing as "The Gentle Art", people are led to believe that it is "gentle" and safe. I am not referring to acute injuries, which can happen anywhere, but the accumulation of wear and tear on the spine and major joints that you can mitigate only minimally, even if you could chose your sparring partners wisely, which the vast majority of people most definitely cannot. The rotational torque on knees and elbows, and most importantly the loading of the spine in structurally compromised positions, which are at the core of most grappling arts, over time lead to deterioration of function. For casual practitioners, boxing and even kickboxing (at least you can do a teep if your knees are compromised) are going to be much safer from the longevity stand point. This obviously does not apply to people who are in serious pursuit of martial arts, who are well informed and who accept all of the tradeoffs. I think this whole discussion actually started with Craig Jones, who in one of his videos talked about the detrimental effect on the body.
I feel like the question was worded pretty dramatically, but you also sort of skirted the main point. BJJ and grappling is incredibly taxing on your joints and ligaments, more so than any other sport or activity I've ever done. Yeah, guys aren't running around with CTE, but the number of people I know who have had multiple surgeries on their knees and shoulders, herniated discs, lingering neck pain... these issues add up when you get older and they aren't something you can just bounce back from easily.
Ramsey, two points: 1) after a class inBJJ I get a “runner’s high “ for the rest of the day. Secondly, to avoid injury, you must warm up! Do not go in cold.
BJJ now for 12 years, with some stops and starts due to moving, and I will say some of the most important things you can do to increase your ability on the mats is strength and conditioning. From weights of yoga, it really does matter, and it helps in every aspect of your life.
I started at age 73, 11 weeks ago, 48 training days and took the last week off to recuperate. There is always someone who likes to hurt someone else. I got slammed on my face in the first two weeks thinking it was a walk thru practice. I have a background in Judo, TKD, boxing and wrestling and Krav Maga. Went 50 years away from martial arts but had reasonable cardio and strength even at 73. I suffered a back injury in Krav Maga, took over a year to rehab 95 percent but seem to be doing okay. I agree, you need to be selective with your partners, sometimes though this isn't possible. The next time someone goes beyond reasonable with my I will employ some tactics I learned long ago.
I hurt someone badly once training doing a scissor throw, I didn’t train for a while after I felt really guilty. Stopped training for a while. now I try to be extra careful. I don’t ever wanna do something like that to a training partner again
I think it really depends on how you train. In my 40s it has IMPROVED my body, to include some nagging knee issues if you can believe that. What about real competitors? Well, that is what happens to athletes. I do have a couple permanent injuries (broken finger, couple toes, ribs lol) but overall my quality of life is vastly improved. Some people do wreck themselves, but I haven't met anyone that truly has. Our professor is a worldwide competitor that just retired from "adult" at 36 years old, lol. He is feeling age, but still...
All sports are inherently dangerous. Thats why rules exist, to limit injuries, even in combat sports. I wrestled all 4 yrs of high school, did basketball in middle school, martial arts on/off over 20yrs, and have been injured. But ive also been careful to protect myself and be aware of risks of different movements. Currently, im only in my mid 30s, and physically im healthier and in better shape than in my early 20s. Its how you take care of your body.
Idk I think chess and maybe table tennis aren’t inherently dangerous but for most physically demanding sports there is the risk of hurting yourself and injury
@@jaihalai7674 funnily enough - even those low on physicality sports leads to long-term physical issues. Chess can lead (as any profession where you sit for hours on a chair) to spinal or lower-back issues. Programming and playing Violina can lead to developing carpal tunnel syndrome. Basically - any prolonged activity which do not let you rest, recuperate or switch positions are as bad as very intensive physical activities. That's why people say, 'everything is good in moderation'.
My limited experience training MMA grappling gave me the impression that it's very conducive to creating good training partners. In striking arts or wrestling, there are always the type who treat their partners as punching bags. The whole training session can feed into an ego trip of domination. But when you take turns trying to defend knee mount, guillotine or RNC for example, everyone gets constant reminders of what it feels like to get crushed.
I studied a traditional Japanese "hard style" karate for nearly 2 decades. My body was wrecked before I turned 30. I now believe that it doesn’t matter what you do: football or some other sport, nearly every martial art that exists, it will destroy your body. This also happens to members of the police or military. In summation, getting old sucks, but living an active lifestyle with lots of adventures makes it worth it. IMO 🙂
that's all great, but many ppl don't know the risks going in because they aren't honestly talked about in a culture where elite athletes are often made out to be the epitome of health, when the reality is that such high specialization and performance demands a sacrifice.
Crazy to think my ITF TKD Master is still spry despite "turning 39...for the 6th time" in 96. I think it's good to hear the truth about these sports and arts, so that one can make an informed decision.
The difference is, if you get "injured" in a striking art you go spit blood into the sink for a minute and then come back out for the next round. If you get injured in a grappling art you go to an orthopedic surgeon, take months to recover, and have a "bad" shoulder or knee for the rest of your life.
That's not how striking injuries work. Punches don't always give you concussions. And even if you did get a concussion from a punch, it is perfectly treatable and wont make you mentally disabled. It takes years and years of consistent and repeated concussions to lead to CTE.
@@Breaker2005 that's literally not true, subconcussive blows lead to CTE with a higher correlation than concussions. All it takes is one time getting head kicked and your life can be completely ruined.
Ive had way worse injuries sparring Vale Tudo than I have doing BJJ. I had a tooth knocked out by a soccer kick, black eyes, a broken nose, Ive never had any injuries doing BJJ apart from general stiffness and a limp for a few days.
Ego , wherever there is ego , there is a chance for injury , in all martial arts , external destroys the body , external is a young man’s game , the older I get the more I appreciate the internal martial arts ( tai-chi ) , hsing - I , I was once young aggressive and use go hard , I learned
This is why after over twenty years im very selective on who I train with. It's always either new guys who think they have something to prove or a higher belt in other styles who has an ego flair because they're getting tapped by someone whos smaller than them and they're frustrated. Me on the other hand cant tap quick enough enough once I know I've been caught 😂
I do agree with most if not all of your assertions made here. However for me it was the pensive facial expressions and the sub woofer like quality of the voice that made this video super entertaining.
Grappling does have a dark side. I heard a lot of this in the 90's. Not a secret that some martial arts including grappling can cause injury. Like Ramsey said be careful who and what you train in. As you grow older you will have to make adjustments or change your training(style).
16 year brown belt here. My neck is fucked. Herniations and radiculopathy are now holding me back from doing BJJ seriously anymore. Dizzy seasick feeling for a year an a half, and if I even overdo it a little bit, I will suffer for potentially months long cycles of headache, dizziness, exhaustion, seasick feeling, weakness. Cervicogenic dizziness due to damage to the delicate structures of the neck C-3 through C-7
16 year old brown belt? Wow. I’ve met a few prodigious young BJJ athletes who were very technically sound, but that seems awfully young to be competing as a brown belt against grown men (let alone receiving that rank).
Hate to say it but you were probably going extremely hard, from an extremely young age (to be brown at 16), when your neck and bones were still developing and weak.
I'm in my 24th year of training and aside from the arthritis in my hands and a single loose rib, I don't really have any other injuries I can blame entirely on BJJ. I have some disc deterioration in my spine but if you line that up to how I sit in my office chair, poor posture is the more likely culprit. Sure, BJJ can damage your body but it's really not that bad compared to wrestling or football. It's all relative. The most important advice is to value your body over your ego. Tap when you should and don't try reckless techniques when rolling.
Taking falls repeatedly in Silat totally destroyed my shoulders, and spine. Had spinal fusion, now a shoulder replacement. I regret the type of training and the brainwashing I was subjected to.
I've been practicing Silat and Escrima since 1993 and Taiji, Bagua and Xingyi since 2008. I like practicing slow twisting and circling steps with blades. It nourishes my brain and I circulate my chi to stay healthy and massage my internal organs to stay soft and limber. The first thing I would teach someone is how to relax and root and circulate Qi. After relaxing, someone can learn basic Gong Fu!
BJJ ruined my shoulders and gave me a host of other nagging injuries I'll live with forever, but it's pretty much all my fault. I rolled like I was fighting for my life every time, refused to tap if there was a 1% chance I could escape, did all the things everyone tells you not to do. BJJ also pretty much turned my life around and helped me mentally in more ways than I can count. I would still wholeheartedly recommend that any young person trains BJJ, but I would also really do everything I could to make sure they understand the value of tapping early and often. Like Ramsey says, you gotta be wise. You can get really hurt doing this stuff.
In my experience, injuries can occur when training with an inexperienced/newbie roller, a roller who has something to prove/beefer, or a roller training for comp - steer clear if you're not ready for weird, unexpected or excessive resistance & attacks.
52 year old purple belt who has been training 8 years here. You will have some stress injuries in this game. Yes, you must learn who to train with and who not to. Some guys are stuck on going 110% and always in smash mode. Some guys aren’t worth training with because of the size difference which produces injuries (I’m 175). Don’t train with them. You learn to defend yourself over time, you learn to stop forcing things and go with what the opponent is giving you vs. what attack YOU want to pursue. I feel like my injuries decrease over time.
I am injury-riddled from combat sports and the Army, and I will still recommend that people do jiu-jitsu. The other thing I can say is that the majority (not all, obviously) of injuries happen in moments of chaos (e.g., "spar wars", scrambles, etc.). Generally, the more experienced you are, the more you know NOT to do, and the fewer injuries sustained. The best approach, from my perspective, is to learn methods, systems, and techniques first, and have the rest follow. The other element, as mentioned in this video, are reliable, controlled training partners. This isn't to say that you will *never* get injured -- things can still go wrong. For example, I have accidentally injured a training partner's elbow during a swim move to belly-down armbar because I wasn't sure my finishing mechanics were proper (apparently, they were, lol), but I also couldn't feel or hear him tap, and I wasn't cranking the sub. Similar things have happened to me during my training. Even though everything hurts, I continue training, but I listen to my body, and I try my best to train smartly and methodically as to not injure self or (more importantly) others.
I had friendship with a medic which was a kyokushin black belt, he told me that he stopped BJJ because he saw his patients having health problems on bones, then must be true, but probably BJJ people will say you didnt trained correct to defend their income.
I recently had a rib injury that knocked me out for two months. I was rolling with an aggressive training partner my skill level but half my age. He is not malicious but over aggressive and borderline reckless. I agree with your points about being smart about training partners and having the confidence to tell someone that you do not want to roll.
Completely agree with Ramsey's points. I've been doing judo since early 2009, which is similar to Brazilian jiu-jitsu (BJJ). While judo helped me improve my physical health (helping me to lose 32kg or 70lbs in my first 10 months of training), judo did unfortunately create other issues for me... for example, my right shoulder has no cartilage and has arthritis, while my right knee has no ACL, no cartilage, arthritis, and only 30% of my meniscus. These injuries unfortunately resulted from training partners doing the wrong thing, e.g., attempting incorrect or poor technique, as well as angry behavior. I have also sustained a severe injury from an inexperienced partner who became quite frightened at the prospect of being thrown (and we were just doing static throw-for-throw work). As a judo coach, I talk to our students about the difference between "aggression" and "anger". Aggression is having the will and courage to engage your partner (or opponent) and attempt the technique(s) you want to do, in an offensive or defensive manner. Anger however, is emotionally fueled, the person's ego comes into play and with that is a greater desire, not just to win, but to hurt. Anger can create inaccurate and sloppy technique. Unfortunately with grappling-related combat sports (like judo, BJJ, wrestling etc.) injuries can be quite easy to obtain, when people do things incorrectly. If both participants are doing the right thing, then the risk of injury is quite small. However, if one, or both participants are doing incorrect thing(s), then the risk of injury can substantially increase... particularly to joints such as knees, elbows and shoulders. Injury can also be increased or mitigated depending on how a coach runs their class. For example, the way we structure othe classes at our judo club is via periodized manner across three to four weeks... so, we gradually increase the intensity over a period over three to four weeks, then reduce the intensity, re-building back up. Some "old school coaches" prefer to just flog their players with high intensity sessions again and again, over and over, which will obviously lead to an increased risk of sustaining an injury. Not everyone who trains in judo, wrestling, or BJJ is going to go to elite level competition like world championships, Olympics etc. and that is okay... but participants may need to draw a line, if they feel that their physical health and well-being is at risk. While exercise is important for our health and future, we do not want preventable injuries to debilitate our future. If there are members of your club who are difficult to work with, then if possible, don't work with them. Politely and calmly explain to your coach, in private, why you do not wish to train with this person (or people) anymore. If your coach is an "old school coach" who prefers to smash their athletes every single training session, then... well, I'd hate to say it, but it might be worth looking into a different club, or sport entirely. Great video response, Ramsey.
I practice iron fist. I practice a few other 'risky' things that can definitely cause injuries when people do not take proper precaution in training and approach it with the necessary knowledge to accomplish that training safely.. I'm glad you called it out, because it sounds like the person was either dealing with a bad instructor who did not teach how to properly train with a partner safely, or a series of bad partners who weren't picking up on good instruction. Whew. Scary tho. It really makes me want to be much more aware and mindful of what I'm doing *TO* the other person in partner training, versus what I'm doing *FOR* myself
"Let's roll light" the biggest scam. As a BJJ practioner for 20 yrs, pretty much all my black belt buddies all have devastating injuries- neck fused, shoulder, MCL/ACL, lower back surgery and the most recent one my buddy with 2 hip replacements. Most of these guys will barely be able to defend themselves now against an advance white belt. My best advice was Professor Steve Maxwell, told me when I was a blue belt, is to find a complimentary "soft internal art", Breathwork, Systema, Chi Kung, Chi Nah, Pilates etc., I can still roll with high level dudes but I do it with moderation. Learn to tap, breathe and relax. Beyond 50yrs of age you are only at half your life, you want to make sure you enjoy it with good health!
I agree 100%. A bad training partner can wind up injuring you (sometimes seriously) - especially in a martial art like BJJ. Sparring partners too (e.g. in western boxing, kickboxing, or Muay Thai) - a sparring partner that is “too enthusiastic” even when rules are set ahead of time can be problematic. For the inexperienced and experienced, don’t be afraid to bow out and then find another, more sensible, less “gung ho,” training partner. This is a very good question and thank you for answering it.
I know a few black belt BJJ guys that quit and the reason they told me was its too hard on the body as you get older. Injuries accumulate and either no longer heal properly or dont heal at all without surgery
My worst injury came from being a judo uke for somebody’s first belt test. He had to demonstrate the most basic technique in judo, de Ashi garai, the fundamental foot sweep, and instead he got me in some kind of standing ankle lock and ripped it loudly. This guy tried to “beat me” very seriously every time we rolled so it was extra salt in the wound. I was out of training for months and It gave me appreciation for the phrase “protect yourself at all times”
I've done a lot of sports and martial arts. Nothing destroyed my body like the ten years of doing nothing I did after I had kids. Stay active, stay strong, don't overdo it. But all of it is better than the atrophy your body experiences from sitting on your butt.
Truth!
This is so true
As a lifelong martial artist, and (relatively) recent dad, getting back into training is tough, but certainly trying and looking forward to it
100%
hmmm, I dunno... plenty of elite athletes are basically disabled by their forties... that doesnt happen to coach potatoes...
40 year old black belt. No surgeries. The older ive gotten, the more selective I am with my partners, and the more strength & conditioning training I do (“pre-hab”). And I roll smooth. Don’t fight life n death for positions in training. Keep it playful. Warm up. Staying consistent (don’t take long periods off). So many things play a part in not getting injured. Helio was rolling at 85. I roll more now than in my 20s. It just requires more diligence.
Yes. I think the key to longevity in any sport, recreational or pro, is taking time off and doing prehab, as you call it. Gotta respect physics, gravity, and old age. They will beat us all in the end, but if you know more about the ways the can hurt you, proper preparation can give a few more good innings.
Good point. I will do the same in the future. Some cannot roll with intelligence and technically. The problem is only when you roll with someone you have never rolled with before. But I will be more consistent. If it hurts someone's ego, so be it. But will say no to some dudes.
So rolling often helps? I thought taking time off is good for the body to recovery?
Well said! I'm 44, train 5 days a week in bjj, 2 days in boxing , and lift and do cardio for three. Anyone who trues to harm me , or gets to rough, I talk to once if they know no better, then I won't toll with them again, if they do know better, well lol humble pie is my favorite gift. I hold multiple powerlighting records currently, and I've been boxing six I've been old enough to walk, my dad was a boxer and took my in my stroller and once I could walk taught me the gift of quick rat shots to the kidneys or liver and how hard they are to prove were on purpose.
Well said my friend
Oss
My grandfather used to say that moderate exercise keeps you healthy, and professional sport cripples you
Best way to avoid injury is to live a boring life. Some are ok with that.
@@theblishknovk
Kickboxing. You can learn dozens of combos, kicks, knees, but spar rarely. No one is twisting on your joints constantly. Most fun cardio ever.
Wise old man
@@timexcape7961 you can do the same in Jiu Jitsu as well. You dont have to do the real thing if you dont want to. I roll with a much older gentleman with a bad knee. "Not jiu jitsu related" and we just go thru the forms and motions. We learn and get good work out that way as well. But def not the same as the real deal. Kick boxing or any martial art is the same. If you want to do the real deal, risk is 100% involved.
@@timexcape7961 you can do the same in Jiujitsu, you dont have to do the real thing, i roll woth an older gentleman sometimes with a bad knee "not jiujitsu related" and we go through the forms and methodology and get a great work out in and learn. Same as any martial art. If you decide to do kick boxing for real, the risk will go up greatly. Same as jiujitsu.
I've been doing this for a really long time in traditional Chinese Kung Fu, and one thing I've found out over the years is that every sport under the sun from MMA to golf to badminton to high school wrestling can damage the body if done incorrectly. Not only every martial art but EVERY sport.
Not just incorrectly, but there are often overuse injuries that athletes often have to deal with, even with correct technique. It's just because of the nature of sports, since there are a lot of repetitive actions involved, and very few people actually do complementary exercises to avoid those overuse injuries.
Except golf
@@357_SWAGNUM_MAGA_X Golfer's elbow injury is named because it's a common injury that can happen playing golf. So, golf wouldn't be excluded for overuse injuries.
@@rohitchaoji very true. Pitching a fastball the correct way is one of the most ergonomically incorrect things a human body can do. Which is why a lot of high school baseball players are getting elbow surgery.
my grandpa played squash competitively in his younger days and was essentially chairbound because of his fucked knees for the latter 60% of his life
As a martial artist of almost 30 years I 100% disagree. Experience includes TKD, wrestling, Judo, MMA, muay thai/kickboxing, BJJ and the worst injuries I have gotten were from BJJ as well as injuries I've seen others get.
In striking, if someone is going too hard you can cover up and say "woah stop take it easy" without taking major damage. In BJJ, by the time you are in danger it's often too late to yell "stop".
Most injuries don't even come from another person. They come from repetitive stress on certain areas and your body being in unnatural positions.
Striking doesn't include any unnatural use of your body except making sure you pivot your base leg and turn your hips while doing a round kick.
In BJJ you are constantly bending and twisting in ways that cause stress and damage. Your knee isn't supposed to be side-loaded but in positions like De LA Riva or X Guard you can injure your own knee from the bad angle and pressure on it. I have seen many injuries happen this way. I can't even do triangle chokes anymore because of the stress it puts on my knee. People end up with repetition injuries in their necks and don't realize it until it slowly creeps up on them over time.
You never hear of boxers with bad hips or ankles. Boxers might have arthritis in their hands but old BJJ guys have arthritis in their entire body including parts they didn't know existed.
👏👏👏
Boxers get brain damage though
@@Youssef0120 They hardly do. But BJJ guys get serious injuries all the time even in "normal" training.
I have a bad hip injury from skateboarding and it is manageable with correct preparation and stretching. I did one session in BJJ and immediately saw how the hip would NOT enjoy the experience. TKD was fine, judo was okay, BJJ was sustained pressure in the wrong zone.
I found that being in odd positions makes me more resilient.
I train BJJ for two years I had several small injuries like fingers/toes/shoulder, and for a while it caused me a chronicle back pain that made take a break. I’ve been doing striking for a year and haven’t had any injuries besides bruises. In my experience striking causes less injuries.
8 years of BJJ. 5 years in the second major MMA gym in my city. One semi serious injury, but I've seen the same accidents so I always prioritized getting great at defense before anything else. You have to not focus on athleticism. Tap strong and often. Don't be embarrassed about it. I'm a four stripe purple and will still tap to these MMA wrestlers that have to prove a point to themselves.
Same in Judo. The more years, the less you care about being taken down. Sometimes i fell it’s the point of it all.
if you put your ego and insecurity at the door. You can train without injuries, softly and efficiency. I have a friend he would steamroll, rush me at our first week of BJJ, I had more experience than him but i was just letting go cause I wanted to train BJJ correctly and do the instructor move without turning in a brawl injuring my friend or me, cause I could have defended, apply pressure but for what purpose... He was compensating for his amateurism while i knew i knew i could do stuff but not without injuring him cause I wasn't experienced enough in BJJ compared to MuayThai or Judo where i could have 'managed'. People are soo ego sensible :P
if they tap you, point was proven
good luck with that... try tapping when someone jacks your knee up... it's not a matter of If... but when... as a 14 year black belt... never with knee injuries.. it finally happened... sorry to say it - but this "Sport" is more like a cult... and brainwashes everyone in it to stay and train every day.. just so they can pay their bills and open more gyms... and help bring more brazillians over on work visas..
I was a martial arts enthusiast for about 3 decades: I tried just about everything just for the fun of it. I enrolled in jiujutsu, and, by the second month, I had my knee bent 90 degrees sideways AND twisted (a guy jumped guard on me and, by reflex, I tried to scape turning my body...). I spent a whole year unable to walk going through surgeries and physiotherapy. Only by miracle I can walk without help today. But I'll never be able to practice any sport or martial arts again. Yeah, jiujutsu fucked me up permanently.
I'd blame the coach for that TBH. Sorry to hear about your experience.
@@JAt0m thanks.
Look into kneesovertoesguy for help with your knee@@philoposos
Did judo and jiu jitsu for 5 years. My joints are too vulnerable for it. I should have quit earlier.
staying away from bjj saves lives
I’m literally disabled and I can still do BJJ despite having trouble walking, that speaks to the versatility of the training, it’s more about communication and finding rolling partners that are not complete A-holes.
A martial arts vlogger recently quit BJJ because he claimed it ruined body. I hear a lot of BJJ guys say this but it's usually people who start it late in life. What type of injuries do you have?
Yeah you didn't hear the guys statement..
I trained with a young man many many years ago in the exact same situation, He was mostly bound to a chair, but could take a few steps if needed. His first art was sambo however. When he first came to us, he was fairly thin, but by the time he was ready to move on with his life, his upper body was solid rock and he had the grip and climbing ability of a chimp. We were all very impressed with what he could do despite his limitations, and we all learnt from him. It became a drill for us, to start seated, and go after a standing opponent, and not use our legs at all. No one could mimick the strength and strategy he had. It was incredibly difficult. He was a good reminder to us that no matter what limitation we will find in life, we would never give up training.
good luck, everyone's an asshole in mma and bjj
I have no arms or legs and still do judo and bjj for the past 5 years
Craig Jones did a video recently on how, contrary to the jujitsu-saved-my-life meme, it is more realistic to say jujitsu ruined my life. He went through the various injuries one can sustain and the general wear and tear the body takes.
Bulletproof for BJJ also did a video on how to avoid serious injury in jujitsu and the general takeaway was that its nearly impossible, unless you're an extremely fit and experienced young athlete who trains in an excellent gym.
I think the issue in part is that there really is a huge push regarding the real benefits of jujitsu without much mention of the risk of injury.
My experience has been that it's very possible to avoid serious BJJ injuries if one is moderately fit AND keeps the ego in check AND has responsible partners.
I've had 2 sprained ankles, 1 sprained wrist, and 1 sprained elbow. One of the sprained ankles and the sprained wrist were from my own ego of not wanting to tap.
1 of the sprained ankles was dealing with a younger explosive opponent who put me in a foot lock and yanked back (he has since calmed down). The elbow was from an Americana, my training partner let go immediately but he lost balance and fell.
I also lift weights twice per week. I routinely stretch or do Range-of-motion exercises daily. So my injuries were temporary and I was even able to train around them.
I've had some pretty close calls as well, but I was able to avoid them due to being semi-fit.
ua-cam.com/video/XAHPG66H000/v-deo.htmlsi=-go3Xt__CkCILZEa
It's still way safer than other sports.
Literally the top comment is some guy saying " i do bjj but being sedentary is worse!!!". Condemning everything else with no acknowledgement of it's own cons is just irresponsibly implies its a better alternative.
but the comments... :
> TRUE!!👏
>preach👏
>slay!!👏
Well Said. As. black belt going on 14 years... this sport will wreck your body.. just so you get a silly black belt... BJJ is like a Cult... they brainwash most their students.. who are already vulnerable to begin with.. many in need of a Father figure... and they milk everyone... Craig Jones is right... BJJ will ruin your life... better off doing anything else... unless you'd like to be a cripple at age 40
There's a video from 2019 (or earlier) from John Danaher talking about safety rules at Renzo Gracie's gym. He strictly prohibts jumping on your training partner including jumping the guard. He doesn't want anyone to run your partner into other people.
Ego will get someone and their training partner hurt in striking or grappling martial arts.
Im started bjj at 30 or so. I went to 10 bjj schools over the period of about 4 years. I hated the mentalities of most schools. I had loads of injuries, like dislocated wrist, neck problems, a popped arm by a dumb purple belt. Anyways, I gave up for a year or two, but was still passionate about it. I found gracie university online, did their gracie combatives course and now train at one of their certified training centres. For me its been an absolute joy. I learned more in 6 months doing that course, than in 4 years, not only about techniques, but respectful, non confrontational and helpful training. No injuries at all since back then. I would suggest to anyone to do that course and or train at a ctc near them, and if they can’t, at least find a club that teaches in a cooperative manner. One thing that i always noticed… if the instructors are talking about being better than other clubs, get out of there.
martial arts are for kids, you are suppose to start when you like 7 years old, your body isn't has limber and had already had wear and tear that's why you got injured starting bjj at 30 years old
I have a Roger Gracie Academy near me you think it will be safer to train there?
Good tip
@@nocap7044 I started martial arts at 6. With judo and karate, and muay thai. I have been a competitive martial artist through my 20's. It's about the intensity you train at and the people who you are entrusting your safety with. You're right about wear and tear at a certain age, but safety and a setting where injury risk is minimised is the point I'm getting at. It all starts with the instructor and the methods used, and then it relies on a decent bunch of people to keep their ego in check while learning.
This is a perfect video for beginners. One of your points that we always try remind some young, new members of our group is how it's good to be patient after a minor injury. We dont want them to make the mistakes of our past, where we'd go to train again even though we were bruised up and had a sore joint. That's when the real injuries happen that force you to stay home. Like the karate knuckles reference, it's about letting the body adapt to what it's facing. To be completely afraid of injury is foolish. If a person's inlove with the art and motion of combat sports training/martial arts, than they don't worry about what's going to limit them, aslong as their being defensive of injury. Myself and all of the guys I train with have a spot or two, or three, that aren't in the same condition they were when we were younger, but once your geared up and ready for training, a combination of a bit of dynamic stretching with an easy going warm up, and it's no longer an issue. Some injuries do take longer than others. I pray your knee recovers soon Ramsey. A few us know all to well of minor knee injuries, but nothing to that degree. With school starting, and other youngsters getting into sport and such, if you have any other tips for begginers in combat sports, and martial arts, it might be a great oppurtunity for them to flow towards your channel to learn.
In striking combat you will get more injuries but most of them will be something that you can recover from.... In BJJ you get less injuries but when one occurs is catastrophic and might change your life.
It's interesting that you talk about the importance of strength and conditioning to prevent injury. I've done a decent amount of muay thai and wrestling, and there's almost always a decent amount time spent on conditioning. In bjj on the other hand, it seems to be a point of pride that particular gyms don't do any at all and participants are expected to do so in their own time.
They should. Oriented training time is extremely valuable and should not be used for conditioning, as the athlete is expected to do it by themselves. Gyms should limit conditioning to 10 min warmups at the start of practice tops. The rest should be totally dedicated to drilling techniques and live training.
I tell my students something I wish I'd applied to myself " It's ok to train when you are hurt, but not when you are injured ". Most of my chronic pain and issues come from not knowing the difference and compounding an injury into something long lasting. Learning to push through pain is very important but so is stopping and getting treatment and recovery time when it's needed.
3 years in BJJ. MCL injury, broken toe here and there. Mostly bruises. If I know I'm gonna get submitted, I tap. It's pretty easy to tell early if you don't have an ego about it. That MCL injury taught me some lessons.
haha your take on white belts is so true !
Sparring with a spazzy newbie in muay thai requires so much more care than with someone experienced ! I think the worst are the 3 month to 1 year newbies, who still suck but learned a few tricks except control.
Same in Judo. Never let two white belts do randoris unmonitored; it's a recipe for disaster. Ideally, adults white belts should not fight until they learn how to relax with a couple months of drills.
There was a recent video (like few months old) of Jesse Enkamp where he trained Kyokushin Karate. In it the easiest spar he got was against the most experienced fighter, just to illustrate what you described.
I was training karate for several years in my youth and had great fun with it. Did other Martial Arts as well.
Once, I joined a traditional Jiu Jitsu class. I was absolutely surprised how rough the trainer was with my joints and wrists, just for demonstration. He was surely competent in the techniques, but that was not a fun experience.
I did several years of full contact sparring beforehand in my Karate club, so Inthink I was familiar with more intensive training.
But Ingot the impression that the jiu jitsu trainer was deciding for me, what my body should tolerate and what not.
I did not continue that training and I am quite happy that I am training now with people who understand consent and empathy.
It is not the trainers job to decide about your body. You're going to drive it for the next couple of decades, not the trainer.
Agree
if you get injured in training its because that person wanted to injury you, it's not an accident
It’s weird, all the times I’ve been injured, I had a bad feeling right when I started the session. The partner usually gave off an energy, like a kind of determination. I think what was happening was that they had the mindset that they would “win” the sparring session which usually means they will always escalate intensity if you outskill them at equal intensity. My mistake sometime when this happened was that I would lower my intensity to try to bring them down with me but instead they just saw my slack as an opening and they would attack with higher intensity than what I was defending with. The funny thing is I’ve only ever been injured by smaller opponents who probably just assume they can’t hurt me.
Seems like sparring should be about perfecting techniques, getting into fight condition, and getting used positioning viz-a-viz other combatants in a cooperative endeavor. Inside or outside of the gym, people who view everything as a type of inter-personal battle are to be avoided.
I can really relate to this. Always trust the intuitions, i've stopped a few rolls in the middle, lying that i was too tired to continue. But it is also true that instead of de-escalate the intensity one must sometimes be as tough as the opponent to avoid injury.
@@polarvortex3294 yeah, it’s tough to avoid though. I definitely have fallen into the same trap plenty of times. Some people see sparring as a proving ground, and you can tell by how they talk about how well they did in sparring. It doesn’t help that nowadays a lot of sparring is released online and judged but I guess that can be counterracted by how people judge people going too hard as well so maybe overall it’s a good thing.
I think it’s really the responsibility of the trainers to regulate how hard people spar though, it’s hard to do when your in it, unless there is a huge skill disparity and you can control the other person with little effort.
I call it my spider sense. A new purple belt came in a couple months ago and I drilled with him. The way he drilled set off my spider sense. I declined to roll with him later. He injured a guy's foot trying a heel hook.
I seek out spazzy af people to test myself.
But I guess I'm blessed with being rather robust.
I stopped doing bjj because I was concerned with the amount of injuries I was getting affecting my other training but I still encourage people to try it. It isn't for everyone but it's still for people out there and you don't know until you try things
@@putzerfischtube9658 sounds like asshole training partners. Sadly sometimes it isn't always easy to avoid them. At least you tried it before deciding if it was your thing
Agreed. Also If you're not planning to do major BJJ tournaments or it's not something you necessarily enjoy I would encourage learning it for a period of time but you don't necessarily have to make it your focus once you have the jist of it. Really 6 months to a year and you can learn the basic submissions especially if you did some grappling in the past like freestyle wrestling in highschool (like I did for 4 years). About 8 months in training BJJ I moved on since I'm not planning to be a professional nor did I have a desire to take it further as I was not that interested. I prefer to learn striking and so took up Muy Thai and some boxing.
BJJ is effective at what it does (especially when on the ground on your back) but it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea and learning basic submission grappling is more than enough for everyday self defense (in many cases you don't want to be fighting on the ground to begin with if you're required to defend yourself in a public setting). The submissions and joint locks also can certainly wear out your body especially if you're grappling with bad or inconsiderate partners. You're twisting and pulling things in directions they aren't supposed to go while you're also resisting and so if you don't have grappling partners that are wary of that and try to protect your health there can certainly be issues.
I'm trying all kinds of things like wrestling, BJJ, Shikiokushin, Muy-Thai.
0 injuries from wrestling, frequently from BJJ (shoulder for me), Shikiokushin (one serious by applying techniques before learning), Muy-Thai (not serious injuries but can damage 🧠 in long term). Combat SAMBO and Fudokan - close to 0 injuries (except overstretching) but I was very young.
Summary - do wrestling if you don't like injuries.
The culture/general attitude of the BJJ school comes largely from the head instructor. If he is safety conscious and encourages others to be, and if he reprimands or expels students who hurt others, then there will be minimal injuries in the school. Students should always take the slack out of locks slowly, and while learning the basics just go through the motions with no competing.
One has to be strong in character. Be your own man. You are responsible for your safety. If you don't trust another player then don't wrestle with him. Just decline and sit out for a while. Tell him you don't feel safe with him. Maybe he will change his ways. Some people enjoy inflicting pain, even injury on others. Refuse to wrestle or practice with them. Those characters should be expelled.
Many old players like me are past competing but like to go through the motions and roll around grooving the patterns but our bodies carry injuries or aged joints so we cannot go hard and have to avoid having certain limbs, back or neck targeted. Few younger players can be trusted so oldies like me have to practice with each other.
@@JBplumbing12 That's a fair assessment.
Ramsey is spot on, training partners are key no matter what the art. I've trained bjj, boxing, muay thai and been blessed with good training partners and academies and to be honest I've still gotten more injuries from striking, also giving your body time to recover is crucial.
This has been a topic for a while, I heard in Judo and wrestling I believe it's worst though. I practiced boxing non-competitively for 2 years without a singled injury(in my 40's), when I has in my early twenties I was just a BJJ blue belt and I had hurt my knee, ankles, shoulders, neck. Not from not tapping, but just grappling and something suddenly hurts. My friend joined Judo as well and he told me people are expecting their ACL to get blown at some point.
I do think that Judo is the worst, because there's a certain minimum impact with the throws that can't be mitigated. BJJ is usually the judoka graveyard, where old judoka go to practice a less high impact sport when they can't do ti anymore. For me it was multiple concussions over the years in Judo that made me have to hang it up, because now if I get a realtively light imapct, I get post concussive symptoms for a while. I hate it because I like Judo much better than BJJ, especially what bJJ has become (think butt-scooting, guard pulling, starting from knees etc), but what can ya do
@@---tx9xx Sorry to hear that, I agree you have to stop, it's not a trivial matter. I am in my 40's and back in the 90's when I first started martial arts (or perhaps this was always the case) People would constantly shit on TMA, but looking at it now, I would take a point-sparrying version of BJJ/Judo/Wrestling if it exists. I got hurt doing BJJ like you said, barely usable ground techniques, and quitting after bluebelt. Can I armbar someone from the guard doing ground and pound? F-No. But look at the Shotokan karate guys how they keep their practice and longevity, a lot these JKA competition footages people actually have speed, balance, cardio and timing. It's a win for TMA. The other thing is I still wanna have the ability to really defend myself. Given what we know about MMA now, simple boxing, some shooting takdowns and some clinch/ bodylock throws, Z-guard/half guard for MMA, that's still a lot of shit to master. There are no schools out there that lets you learn that without getting hurt.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm not sure I share your conclusions though, in that if anything I think I support as far from what you call TMA from possible towards sports stuff, such as grappling, sambo, wrestling, and paradoxically it's BJJ in the USA that often has this "TMA" mentality sometimes of formality, respescting belt rank, etc. I find the basic BJJ techniques to be very usable, i mean like 1990s or gracie academy ones, not this sport guard shit, and combined with some takedowns. My main motivation now to train is a) physical conditioning, because I really don't enjoy any other type of exercise besides randori/rolling and b) some mental aspect, as I do feel you forget any other problems in your life when rolling against someone else, I just wish I didn't have to suffer through warm ups and drills to get there, but most gyms won't let you just come and roll. Now I just have to decide whether to enroll my own kids in JUdo or in BJJ. In the USA today Judo is pretty rare and BJJ is on every corner, but I do think Judo is more effective and better to learn as a kid, as well as good breakfalls, but I dunno about the injury potential... anyway..... late night musings.. best regards to you. WHere in the world are you buddy?@@hong-enlin4651
you made alot of good points regarding injury prevention and keeping the body strong. Great content. i will subscribe
Every BJJ brown belt ever "My Knees are F*cked."
Neck, fingers etc
I only have my experience, but I'm in my mid-40s having started BJJ over 6 years ago and I feel better now than I did then.
2018-2021 (with a year off during the pandemic, obviously) I started training BJJ with my friend who’s an amateur MMA fighter as a total beginner. After about 3.5 years I developed a herniated disk on my L5, pinching the S1 nerve, and I now have bone spurs on the L5 and L4 disks. I’ve had surgery and am a little better, but my back is too weak to be explosive, so ironically I got into BJJ to learn to defend myself and now I’m less capable of defending myself because of my back.
Overall, I’d say BJJ was detrimental experience in my life and would discourage people from training. Save your money and get a normal gym membership and please exercise safely.
@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 I’m 100% certain it was my weightlifting paired with Jiu-Jitsu, however, I can’t tell you for certain if it was one or the other specifically. From my own experience, though I had fun, I would recommend doing some other activity.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356if you're a tall guy (6'3" - 6'6", or taller), I would recommend that you try another martial art that isn't BJJ. It puts a tremendous amount of wear an tear on your lower back and the neck. At 26 years old, and I already have lower back and neck issues because I did jiu jitsu and played american football, on top of working as a non-dexterous construction laborer.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 I once thought the same, but there comes a point were strength is easily negated by technique, experience, speed and flexibility. All which favor small people. Tall guys like me (and taller) have a huge disadvantage when performing takedowns and being in bottom full guard. As someone who is between 6'5.5" and 6'6" and 220 pounds, I can realistically say that I won't be able to do half the takedowns, and getting out of the bottom is a real struggle against smaller opponents who have technique, experience and flexibility. The only thing in jiu jitsu that may favor us tall guys is submissions and some transitions from the top. Nothing else. So the narrative that jiu jitsu favors tall guys is mostly bullshit, with very few exceptions.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 honestly, if you do cardio, strength training and flexibility training, you may minimize the risks as a smaller person. But that isn't a guarantee. I'm not going to be a snake oil salesman selling you a bunch of lies. You will likely have less wear and tear than a taller person, but as a shorter person you will need to focus on the wear and tear in your elbows and shoulders. In my case, I just started practicing karate last Wednesday because my neck and lower back can't take anymore wear and tear. Between jiu jitsu, american football and working as a non-dexterous construction laborer, I received all the wear and tear my body can handle; which is why I am 26 years old, but have the wear and tear of someone who is between 35 and 40 years old.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 The best advice I can give you is to weight the pros and cons after you take one free trial jiu jitsu class. If you like it, go for it, buy be conscious of the wear and tear it may have on your elbows and shoulders. One thing that may help greatly reduce the wear and tear is to tap on time, don't play hero like I did.
BJJ has kept me flexible, quick, agile, and pain free. Before I did BJJ my hips were starting to hurt and I was afraid I might wind up with hip replacement. After doing BJJ the pain is gone and I feel great for 60 years old. If you know you have been caught in a submission then tap early. I don't try to prove I can fight out of a locked in kimura or knee bar in a practice session. I have done BJJ since 2011. I don't have any pain from it.
Everything Ramsey said here was on the button. One thing I'd add is that I think BJJ weakens your joints over time - with striking arts you have the danger of hyper extension when you kick and punch but this is relatively rare. In jiu jitsu when you hold someone in a position i.e. closed guard or triangle (just a couple of examples) - your opponent is trying to get out or you're trying to finish the sub - both of you end up wiggling your joints in their sockets, straining against each other. Over time this weakens them which is why controlled strengthening - i.e. lifting is SO important - more important even than striking arts. You need to tighten them up.
I got two dislocated knees - since I started BJJ - my knees had always been bullet proof before. Granted I'm older - but I don't know that dislocations are necessarily increased with age. I put it down to doing a lot of BJJ and micro-tweaking the joints over the past 7 years or so but who knows. What I know is that doing some strengthening through a lifting program outside of class makes me feel so much more 'put together' for want of a better description.
I also follow all of RD's advice - I'm older (46), I don't push myself and recently I've decided to pick some of the people I roll with - I don't care if people think I'm lazy or a coward etc... I take my time on the mats as a precious gift, not as a given, and it's more important to me than any egotistical measurement.
Do you think bodyweight squats are sufficient for your knees?
I started with 'self defense' and 'combat sports' late in my 40s. (I started with Krav Maga, realized that it has it's limitations and started jiu jitsu.) My biggest pains are from the jiu jitsu and ground work from Krav Maga. My fingers, wrists, joints, and back will hurt for days afterwards. Most of it, I think, is from instructor and some of the opponents. They don't seem to care if they go just a bit too far, whereas I try my best to not actually hurt someone in training. (I sometimes wonder if the instructor dislikes me on a personal level.) I think I may switch to try boxing. Less malicious cranking of the joints.
Sorry, that earlier reply was intended for someone else in the comment right above you. I clicked the wrong tab.
No matter what label on the sign outside the gym says, scout out the coaches, the students, and facility first. They’re not all the same thing.
I wondered about that when the coach drove his fist into my wind pipe at open mat last weekend.
I tapped fast , I'm fine now.
Yikes! I'm glad you are fine now. It is something that I've observed with this coach, he's gentle and laid back with some people, but harsh and critical of others. The coach I was dealing with criticized me in front of others during a testing phase. @@isupportthecurrentthing.1514
@@isupportthecurrentthing.1514😮😮😮
This honestly seems to be a growing issue in BJJ. That’s not knock the martial art, but definitely a criticism of the culture. Even around me, there are a lot of places that don’t take it seriously. And I don’t mean necessarily mean that in a “hobbyist versus professional” sense but in the sense too many people think of it as “play time” even when the goal is submitting people…
The culture of many BJJ places has swung super hard into this… I don’t even know… realm completely lacking in structure? Like you ask people to warm up or stretch before rolling or to communicate with partners better and you very literally will hear the response “I’m
Just a hobbyist bro”
Idk, at least in America, a lot of BJJ gyms have this anti-traditionalism, lais sez faire attitude paired with a very consumerist attitude. This tends to make a lot of places almost devoid of strong authority. It also means that people show up and pay monthly fees kind of thinking of the gym like an amusement park-like the place and people are just something they paid for so they are entitled to do whatever.
Again, I don’t know. The reason I backed out of BJJ and went full time into Judo, ironically, is that BJJ guys seem way, way more likely to do stupid shit with zero oversight. Judo-ostensibly the “less safe” art-puts a lot of emphasis on doing things by the book and mutual respect. I’ve tried to get BJJ guys to come over but you always get excuses about safety or how Judo “bows and shit.”
I suspect some of this might have to do with younger people in BJJ combined with the BJJ “brand” being pretty hands off. At least in America, too, the popular discourse has gotten to a place where people basically think all TMA are bad and everything they do is bad, so any tiny hint of that in BJJ or Kickboxing or whatever and suddenly the gym is a “cult” lol. Like I have my fair share of criticisms of TMA, but packaging mutual respect and concern for your partners in with a martial practice is not cult behavior… that’s being a decent human being and actually keeps your training partners in class longer.
Awesome comment. It's almost as if we were rediscovering what the old masters knew ;-)
Ten years of Judo and not one injury. Varsity wrestler all four years of high school and not one injury. One month of BJJ and my injuries are numerous...both knees, shoulder, neck and ribs.
Would also like to say I never saw anyone else at my Judo Dojo get injured either. But then again that might be because it was world class with with one of the best sensei in the the world and many national, world and several olympian competitors.
I used to hurt myself during my first few years of doing BJJ. I still go hard, but just somehow changed and adapted my style according to some intuitive sense of what's going to hurt me. Just as an example, if there is a choice between triggering an arthritis flare-up in my knuckles for 3 weeks, or let go and lose a wicked Spider guard sweep, just let go and do something else...
Junior (white2) BJJ guy here. I'm 50. The reason BJJ isn't giving me a 90 year-old body is because at my age, I am committed to not being committed to BJJ. I tap early and often and am just there to learn and practise technique. I religiously train aikido Mondays and Fridays, then BJJ whenever I can fit it in on the other days.
Donn Draeger called judo “the great crippler”. Old judo players end up doing ne waza (groundwork) a lot, so we tend to find bjj pretty chill and easy on the body in comparison. Bjj is probably the easiest grappling sport on the body.
I wonder about the longevity of catch wrestlers.....
Why I respect the old judokas a lot like Mifune
Even Kurt Osiander said getting thrown repeatedly in Judo fucks you up. I thinkk he said he was a brown belt in Judo.
@@bodhitree33 Why strength condition is important outside of the dojo
@@EthanNoble also crash pads, also there's a reason why judokas do the technique drills in massive rep numbers at the "grip + step in" level - working the kuzushi versus the actual slam
I've been doing jiujitsu for a while and I'm in pretty good shape. Agree that partner selection and training sensibly are important.
When I was younger I would let submissions go too long because I didn’t treat it as a checkmate. That definitely affected my body. But injuries I got were from dynamic movements, takedowns, opponents passing when I was defending and popping a rib attempting to escape a bow and arrow choke. The older and more experienced I’ve gotten the more caution I take in defending early and tapping when I’m caught. (Meaning I’m not escaping the position that the submission is applied) I’ve also learned when to a transition when I’m escaping and defending passes. Also I will adjust who I roll with. There are days where I avoid rolling with certain team mates.
Treating an applied submission hold as a checkmate seems like an excellent training philosophy and safety practice.
@@polarvortex3294 I only wish I could go back in time to tell myself that. I’d have full shoulder mobility.
@@christophervelez1561 Seems like we have to learn many things in life the hard way... But one guy, it is said, learned your lesson in his very first match -- and then took it further! This was Jose Capablanca, the famous Cuban chess master. The legend is that in all his long career he was never once checkmated, because he always saw many moves ahead and resigned before things got that far.
That would be so funny if in a BJJ match one guy (who seemed to be doing OK) suddenly stopped, stood up, and shook his opponent's hand, conceding defeat because he saw a tight armbar coming a minute ahead. He'd keep his shoulders in top shape into old age!
I 100% agree and understand the fact that in the end gyms are trying to make money. I have trained in multiple gyms and not one of them had a serious talk about taking care of your training partners.. unless someone got seriously hurt.
That is unfortunate.
The Gracie gyms I've been in take it seriously.
I had a little injury a while back. I've been doing BJJ for about 5 months now, and just starting to see improvement. I was training with a completely new guy and he injured my elbow joint a bit. When I got home, I just wrapped my elbow in athletic tape and rested it. I even skipped a day at the gym to let it rest. Thankfully, my elbow is better than ever and I'm still going to BJJ practice. BJJ is dangerous when your partner has no idea what they're doing
That's why you should have a hammer available as a training aid for those that apply to much pressure
It's like you said, you need good training partners. I'm lucky that in my gym there is a very good atmosphere and I enjoy rolling a lot. I'm 44 years old, started BJJ this year so I'm also a white belt. From my little experience I can say: Rolling with other white belts requires the most force, and it is the most uncontrolled. Still I get good roles, sometimes I tell other newcomers to slow down, conserve energy and be more controlled. It's not about winning, it's about learning. You need to take out the fear of loosing, then those people also relax. I learn a lot of rolling with blue belts, but enjoy most rolling with purple belts. They are so calm, giving me opportunities like letting me pass the guard, getting the back, etc. putting themselves into bad positions. This way I can get more experience and they train escaping from bad positions. A win-win situation. After the role they often give me valuable tips what I did wrong or can improve an. Just a cool sport.
@ramsey: I would love to hear more about prehab and rehab in BJJ ;-)
Thanks for your good videos.
I must admit, I've had something of a similar experience. I lift weights, used to powerlift and have practiced various kinds of Muay Thai or kickboxing over the years. I've been doing BJJ for about a year now and I find that my shoulders more than anything else get impingements or cranked etc. I find this tends to be from better but smaller guys than myself. Like they think because I'm a bigger strong guy they have to really put on the kimura or Americana, and the intensity of the leverage just tears my shoulders and the tendons around it. I think it's a case of me having fairly injury prone shoulders from the various modalities of training with their intensity. It is super disheartening though having to take weeks and weeks off from lifting, thai boxing and BJJ because some smaller more experienced guys just want to put it on the bigger guy.
Is there also a possibility you're not tapping soon enough because you're less willing to tap to 'smaller guys'? Tapping early and often is the best injury prevention method in BJJ.
@@johnmcdonagh374 Possibly but, not because I don’t want to tap to smaller guys. Generally I tap once I know I can’t get out and soon as I feel pain.
Most people at my Thai gym are smaller there’s one or two bigger at bjj but I’m fairly used to getting hit or submitting to smaller guys. But one or two of them will crank certain moves on really strong, really fast. To the point I have little opportunity to tap! Some things I tap super early specifically as I have ongoing issues (like shoulders and even chokes as I’m a classical singer) but other things I will wait, try to get out and then if I can’t get out or it hurts I’ll tap.
@@LeeJCander These people are being bad training partners. You should try to talk to them, or avoid rolling with them. In practice every submission should be held without pressure for at least a beat (say two to three seconds) then pressure should be applied slowly and evenly. If this means your training partner wriggles free of an arm bar you could have got, then a. who the hell cares, and b. this means your control isn't good enough (and practice is a great place to practice control).
@@LeeJCander ya if they're yanking and don't give you a chance to tap then you need different training partners. But, if you're waiting until you feel pain before you tap to a joint lock eg. Armbar, kimura, Americana, foot lock, then that is too late. If you feel pain you're already allowing them to do damage. You need to tap when you know the submission 'is in'. The same way you shouldn't wait until the lights are going out to tap to a choke. Knowing when 'its in' is based on feel and takes some experience to understand. However, you should ask your coach to go through different subs with you and get him to show you at what point you should be tapping. Pain is not a good messenger in this scenario.
Doesn't matter if it's a smaller guy, tell them that you've got bad shoulders and not put it on, let them know you know when to tap!
If they still do it, then they're assholes, don't roll with 'em again :(
I've been hurt more in bjj more than any other martial art. I think it comes from people hearing bjj is safer so they try harder and ignore safety but it definitely depends on the people. I've seen people come and go because they go too hard at the gym I was at.
I should also say martial arts hurt you in different ways. I find muay thai is more bruises and harder cardio but grappling leads to more sprains and more muscles being sore.
Muay Thai can also be long lasting head injuries and CTE though, especially if you're competing.
@@cyborgchicken3502 That's fair. I'm coming at this as a hobbyist so I try to avoid head hits and harder sparring to protect my brain
I dabbled with BJJ for a while, loved every second on the mats, but got injured every time I trained. Only minor things, but I got out quick before a major injury happened. As a fit strong and healthy middle-age dad, I don't need it in my life enough to let it mess my body up. I think there should be more messages of caution to would-be trainees. I don't just mean, "these are the steps you can take to reduce risk of injuries". I was doing all of those. I mean more like: "you will get injured and sooner or later, badly. Is it worth it to you?". If it is worth it to you, great, go for it.
Good for you. Many can’t see this and learn the hard way. I loved every minute on the mat but eventually came to realize that it’s not good for your body.
@chriswaters2327 Unfortunately that’s how some gyms are. There are others who aren’t like that though.
@@metaphysicalphilosopher2356 I started noticing that I was getting stiffer over the years. Especially my neck and back from all the pressure that was being put on my by my training partners. Then I started noticing how so many people who were doing BJJ around me all had this weird stiffness of their neck. They couldn’t naturally turn their heads. They’d often have to turn their bodies as well. I’d wake up in the morning with hands and feet stiff from all the grip fighting and overall pressure that I was using in dealing with opponents. Soaking them in warm water helped to relieve this. Then there were the obvious injuries that were occurring and that were taking longer and longer to heal because I’m older now. If I was a spring chicken, I’d bounce back in a hart beat but that changes with age. Finally, I studied Chinese medicine and worked in a clinic that dealt with a lot of muscular skeletal problems. I was seeing patients come in with long term injuries and just messed up bodies due to years of repetitive motions. Many of these people were messed up and the chances of them getting better seemed to decrease rapidly with age since many of them seemed to be unwilling/unable to make some serious changes in their lives. Sometimes it was because they’d invested so much time, energy, money, effort, ego…their whole existence into whatever it was they were doing and that was causing their body to breakdown. I have a friend who’s been doing BJJ for almost 10 years now. He loves it and I understand why. He’s also a hair away from his knee blowing out and possibly needing life changing and very costly knee surgery. It’s not if, but when. I’ve warned him, but he’s too invested in it. We all have to make peace with the fact that we’re getting older and one day will die. I’ve accepted that and have made decisions to make sure I go off into the sunset (whenever that is) in as best of a body as possible. No point in wrecking your body and then spending several decades in pain, suffering, and miserable. There are many like that. The best defense is to stay healthy.
I was like this two with my shoulders every times I wrestled it would mess up but resistance bands saved my shoulders I’m using them on my knees now to prevent knee injuries
I am 36y old judoka, french champion veteran 35/40y -60kg, and I am considering more and more the idea of stopping judo or limiting it to a very occasional practice, because my body is falling apart.
did someone ever made a tierlist of most "body preserving MA" or "least body destroying MA" ? this video would kind of prompt such a tierlist video, maybe you can collab with other martial artist (for example that group from that self defense champion season 1 thing, which was great btw)
with possible exception of starting bjj as a teenager or college athlete and only doing it for 10 years while being careful, bjj/mma is where you trade your joint and tendon health for the ability to beat people up.
If you still want to do it, the best way to reduce the risks is when you're a beginner with less than 6 months or a year, because you won't even know when you've done some lasting damage. Only do moves as a beginner that you've drilled and practiced in person, don't try and do moves that you've simply seen other people do, especially involving rolling or falls or big, fast movements. Don't just tap when you feel a choke coming on or feel the joint is locked out, tap as soon as their is any discomfort from a neck attack or they have your joint isolated even if they haven't reached the end range yet. Similarly , any situation or sweep or throw that you don't recognise, don't resist it, just let it happen and only think about moving your body parts to safety out of the way of them landing badly or something. Move smoothly and with control only use explosive movements for situations you have been taught and drilled
These rules are very hard to follow as a beginner because sparring is fun. I didn't, i wasn't even told most of them or was told them in passing and given different advice by others, but now my range of motion in my neck is less than it was before I started. It will be very frustrating watching people who joined later than you start submitting you because they roll more aggressively and experimentally and gain experience more quickly, but if you do this for your first 6 months or a year you'll cut down on so much of the danger of accumulated damage
It's not the system that brutalises you, it's a sadistic/careless/can't control his aggressive students he should ban - instructor and the sociopathic students that do it. A good friend has found nothing but saftey and community in the BJJ he's been doing for 10 years. I nearly had my spine broken, knee trashed, and another friend had a career ending shoulder break from where we used to train. Conversely at 45 I'm more into grappling now (started over) as getting hit just hurts now, my body is too rigid.
You will make greater gains at safer clubs.
I'm primarily a striker myself, learned a few BJJ moves back in the day from the old Gracie VHS training videos tried them out and found them very effective and I was intrigued. However I never had the opportunity to seriously train BJJ for a long time after that and by the time it became more popular and the opportunity was there I found myself hesitant because I have heard this exact same sentiment echoed by many BJJ practitioners. Not so much from the training alone where injuries do occur as in any martial art but they would give you a heads up that if you have any aims on doing BJJ competitively you may as well brace yourself for the impending injuries, some of which will likely stay with you forever.
You can try and comfort yourself, cope... Bur day will come when you'll regret it, one day when you can't put your socks on, can't bend your back...
It's better to exercise and be healthy than to ruin your body through twisting your joints for fun. It's less damaging to lose a fight than to destroy your body over decades.
Streching and swimming are the two best exercises to keep the body young
I've had many small injuries from bjj. It was always my fault. I had an entire sports career before joining jiu jitsu and my ability to understand where my body needs to be or more importantly where my body isn't in a safe position or at greater risk took time. Freak accidents happen. I've popped my shoulder out multiple times from slipping on sweat laden mats and then reinjuring it from larger opponents. The reality is, I didn't have to try so hard and could've rolled at 50%-70% and just gave up positions/negating their game and only turning it up with training partners I trust. Most people you'll train with wont be aware enough themselves to not hurt you.
Staph infection is another serious concern with training aside from physical injury. Gym hygiene and the health status of your training partner.
Training for 4.5 years here (I’m 40), and so far no real injuries. I was training 4-5 times/week for a long time, now it’s only 2-3. I have no doubt that if I were training every day, it would destroy my body. Rest is important. Listening to your body is also important.
Vast majority of BJJ trainees are casual practitioners, and the risks of BJJ are absolutely not obvious to them when they start. Not only is it not obvious, but because of the absence of explicit violence, and its marketing as "The Gentle Art", people are led to believe that it is "gentle" and safe. I am not referring to acute injuries, which can happen anywhere, but the accumulation of wear and tear on the spine and major joints that you can mitigate only minimally, even if you could chose your sparring partners wisely, which the vast majority of people most definitely cannot. The rotational torque on knees and elbows, and most importantly the loading of the spine in structurally compromised positions, which are at the core of most grappling arts, over time lead to deterioration of function. For casual practitioners, boxing and even kickboxing (at least you can do a teep if your knees are compromised) are going to be much safer from the longevity stand point. This obviously does not apply to people who are in serious pursuit of martial arts, who are well informed and who accept all of the tradeoffs. I think this whole discussion actually started with Craig Jones, who in one of his videos talked about the detrimental effect on the body.
I feel like the question was worded pretty dramatically, but you also sort of skirted the main point. BJJ and grappling is incredibly taxing on your joints and ligaments, more so than any other sport or activity I've ever done. Yeah, guys aren't running around with CTE, but the number of people I know who have had multiple surgeries on their knees and shoulders, herniated discs, lingering neck pain... these issues add up when you get older and they aren't something you can just bounce back from easily.
Ramsey, two points: 1) after a class inBJJ I get a “runner’s high “ for the rest of the day. Secondly, to avoid injury, you must warm up! Do not go in cold.
BJJ now for 12 years, with some stops and starts due to moving, and I will say some of the most important things you can do to increase your ability on the mats is strength and conditioning. From weights of yoga, it really does matter, and it helps in every aspect of your life.
I started at age 73, 11 weeks ago, 48 training days and took the last week off to recuperate. There is always someone who likes to hurt someone else. I got slammed on my face in the first two weeks thinking it was a walk thru practice. I have a background in Judo, TKD, boxing and wrestling and Krav Maga. Went 50 years away from martial arts but had reasonable cardio and strength even at 73. I suffered a back injury in Krav Maga, took over a year to rehab 95 percent but seem to be doing okay. I agree, you need to be selective with your partners, sometimes though this isn't possible. The next time someone goes beyond reasonable with my I will employ some tactics I learned long ago.
Several of the Gracies developed herniated disks from rolling around for so many years.
Very very on point. This is excellent advice.
My judo coach at 50 was told she had developed a leg and back muscular condition that was pretty much only known in old Japanese men.
I hurt someone badly once training doing a scissor throw, I didn’t train for a while after I felt really guilty. Stopped training for a while. now I try to be extra careful. I don’t ever wanna do something like that to a training partner again
I think it really depends on how you train. In my 40s it has IMPROVED my body, to include some nagging knee issues if you can believe that. What about real competitors? Well, that is what happens to athletes. I do have a couple permanent injuries (broken finger, couple toes, ribs lol) but overall my quality of life is vastly improved. Some people do wreck themselves, but I haven't met anyone that truly has. Our professor is a worldwide competitor that just retired from "adult" at 36 years old, lol. He is feeling age, but still...
Did Judo and Hapkido. My knees are wrecked. Once thise ACLs and PCLs get repaired, it just sucks.
All sports are inherently dangerous. Thats why rules exist, to limit injuries, even in combat sports.
I wrestled all 4 yrs of high school, did basketball in middle school, martial arts on/off over 20yrs, and have been injured. But ive also been careful to protect myself and be aware of risks of different movements. Currently, im only in my mid 30s, and physically im healthier and in better shape than in my early 20s. Its how you take care of your body.
Idk I think chess and maybe table tennis aren’t inherently dangerous but for most physically demanding sports there is the risk of hurting yourself and injury
@@jaihalai7674 idk, you could potentially twist your ankle or tweak your elbow in table tennis.
A zing for a zing. Lol.
@@jaihalai7674 funnily enough - even those low on physicality sports leads to long-term physical issues. Chess can lead (as any profession where you sit for hours on a chair) to spinal or lower-back issues. Programming and playing Violina can lead to developing carpal tunnel syndrome. Basically - any prolonged activity which do not let you rest, recuperate or switch positions are as bad as very intensive physical activities. That's why people say, 'everything is good in moderation'.
My limited experience training MMA grappling gave me the impression that it's very conducive to creating good training partners. In striking arts or wrestling, there are always the type who treat their partners as punching bags. The whole training session can feed into an ego trip of domination. But when you take turns trying to defend knee mount, guillotine or RNC for example, everyone gets constant reminders of what it feels like to get crushed.
I studied a traditional Japanese "hard style" karate for nearly 2 decades. My body was wrecked before I turned 30. I now believe that it doesn’t matter what you do: football or some other sport, nearly every martial art that exists, it will destroy your body. This also happens to members of the police or military. In summation, getting old sucks, but living an active lifestyle with lots of adventures makes it worth it. IMO 🙂
that's all great, but many ppl don't know the risks going in because they aren't honestly talked about in a culture where elite athletes are often made out to be the epitome of health, when the reality is that such high specialization and performance demands a sacrifice.
you wouldn't have that problem if you focussed on non-competitive martial arts
Crazy to think my ITF TKD Master is still spry despite "turning 39...for the 6th time" in 96.
I think it's good to hear the truth about these sports and arts, so that one can make an informed decision.
The difference is, if you get "injured" in a striking art you go spit blood into the sink for a minute and then come back out for the next round. If you get injured in a grappling art you go to an orthopedic surgeon, take months to recover, and have a "bad" shoulder or knee for the rest of your life.
Yeah except the striking injury makes you mentally disabled.
That's not how striking injuries work. Punches don't always give you concussions. And even if you did get a concussion from a punch, it is perfectly treatable and wont make you mentally disabled. It takes years and years of consistent and repeated concussions to lead to CTE.
@@Breaker2005 that's literally not true, subconcussive blows lead to CTE with a higher correlation than concussions. All it takes is one time getting head kicked and your life can be completely ruined.
THE JIU JITSU KNUCKLES AHHHHHH. Lol. Love this channel.
Hey Ramsey I just received my purple belt and sometimes youjitsu is not always nice on the body
Combat sports are never nice on bodies.
Congratulations on the purple belt, by the way!
@@RamseyDeweythank you so much! Your channel has been very helpful on my grappling journey
Ive had way worse injuries sparring Vale Tudo than I have doing BJJ. I had a tooth knocked out by a soccer kick, black eyes, a broken nose, Ive never had any injuries doing BJJ apart from general stiffness and a limp for a few days.
You have a very distinct voice that would do well in voice overs for animation characters. Good video and always fun to watch
Love the aged photo, when you actually get to that age you should compare this image with a real one haha
45 more years to go. I’ll keep you posted.
@@RamseyDewey well hey, the internet saves everything...unless Mad Max happens...
Ego , wherever there is ego , there is a chance for injury , in all martial arts , external destroys the body , external is a young man’s game , the older I get the more I appreciate the internal martial arts ( tai-chi ) , hsing - I , I was once young aggressive and use go hard , I learned
This is why after over twenty years im very selective on who I train with. It's always either new guys who think they have something to prove or a higher belt in other styles who has an ego flair because they're getting tapped by someone whos smaller than them and they're frustrated. Me on the other hand cant tap quick enough enough once I know I've been caught 😂
I do agree with most if not all of your assertions made here. However for me it was the pensive facial expressions and the sub woofer like quality of the voice that made this video super entertaining.
Grappling does have a dark side. I heard a lot of this in the 90's. Not a secret that some martial arts including grappling can cause injury.
Like Ramsey said be careful who and what you train in.
As you grow older you will have to make adjustments or change your training(style).
Me and my ACL agree.
@@na-ky8ou 😞
But do you have a choice Always who to spar with ?
@@JitinMisra your right sometimes your stuck with a bad partner
16 year brown belt here. My neck is fucked. Herniations and radiculopathy are now holding me back from doing BJJ seriously anymore. Dizzy seasick feeling for a year an a half, and if I even overdo it a little bit, I will suffer for potentially months long cycles of headache, dizziness, exhaustion, seasick feeling, weakness. Cervicogenic dizziness due to damage to the delicate structures of the neck C-3 through C-7
16 year old brown belt? Wow. I’ve met a few prodigious young BJJ athletes who were very technically sound, but that seems awfully young to be competing as a brown belt against grown men (let alone receiving that rank).
Hate to say it but you were probably going extremely hard, from an extremely young age (to be brown at 16), when your neck and bones were still developing and weak.
@@RamseyDeweyI took that as 16 years of training and currently a brown belt.
@@jpjp3873 thats what i meant, im 33 now
sorry for the mixup in language
Part of the reason I always recommend neck training. Also makes you more aware of your neck.
I'm in my 24th year of training and aside from the arthritis in my hands and a single loose rib, I don't really have any other injuries I can blame entirely on BJJ. I have some disc deterioration in my spine but if you line that up to how I sit in my office chair, poor posture is the more likely culprit. Sure, BJJ can damage your body but it's really not that bad compared to wrestling or football. It's all relative. The most important advice is to value your body over your ego. Tap when you should and don't try reckless techniques when rolling.
Taking falls repeatedly in Silat totally destroyed my shoulders, and spine. Had spinal fusion, now a shoulder replacement. I regret the type of training and the brainwashing I was subjected to.
I've been practicing Silat and Escrima since 1993 and Taiji, Bagua and Xingyi since 2008. I like practicing slow twisting and circling steps with blades. It nourishes my brain and I circulate my chi to stay healthy and massage my internal organs to stay soft and limber.
The first thing I would teach someone is how to relax and root and circulate Qi. After relaxing, someone can learn basic Gong Fu!
BJJ ruined my shoulders and gave me a host of other nagging injuries I'll live with forever, but it's pretty much all my fault. I rolled like I was fighting for my life every time, refused to tap if there was a 1% chance I could escape, did all the things everyone tells you not to do. BJJ also pretty much turned my life around and helped me mentally in more ways than I can count. I would still wholeheartedly recommend that any young person trains BJJ, but I would also really do everything I could to make sure they understand the value of tapping early and often. Like Ramsey says, you gotta be wise. You can get really hurt doing this stuff.
Ruptured my pec Tendon last year. Had surgery. Learned my mistake. Im back on the mat now. An injury this severe completely changed my style.
Congrats! Great explanation! You know what you talking about!
In my experience, injuries can occur when training with an inexperienced/newbie roller, a roller who has something to prove/beefer, or a roller training for comp - steer clear if you're not ready for weird, unexpected or excessive resistance & attacks.
Bjj gets a lot better when you realize you don't have to accept every roll you get offered.
Truth!
52 year old purple belt who has been training 8 years here. You will have some stress injuries in this game. Yes, you must learn who to train with and who not to. Some guys are stuck on going 110% and always in smash mode. Some guys aren’t worth training with because of the size difference which produces injuries (I’m 175). Don’t train with them. You learn to defend yourself over time, you learn to stop forcing things and go with what the opponent is giving you vs. what attack YOU want to pursue. I feel like my injuries decrease over time.
I am injury-riddled from combat sports and the Army, and I will still recommend that people do jiu-jitsu. The other thing I can say is that the majority (not all, obviously) of injuries happen in moments of chaos (e.g., "spar wars", scrambles, etc.). Generally, the more experienced you are, the more you know NOT to do, and the fewer injuries sustained. The best approach, from my perspective, is to learn methods, systems, and techniques first, and have the rest follow. The other element, as mentioned in this video, are reliable, controlled training partners. This isn't to say that you will *never* get injured -- things can still go wrong. For example, I have accidentally injured a training partner's elbow during a swim move to belly-down armbar because I wasn't sure my finishing mechanics were proper (apparently, they were, lol), but I also couldn't feel or hear him tap, and I wasn't cranking the sub. Similar things have happened to me during my training.
Even though everything hurts, I continue training, but I listen to my body, and I try my best to train smartly and methodically as to not injure self or (more importantly) others.
That drug reference is crazy ironic with the choke dealer shirt
I had friendship with a medic which was a kyokushin black belt, he told me that he stopped BJJ because he saw his patients having health problems on bones, then must be true, but probably BJJ people will say you didnt trained correct to defend their income.
BJJ gave them bone marrow cancer?
@@RamseyDewey I had answered but youtube deleted my comment, he somehow died.
Listen to your body. If it hurts, adapt and change. Dont be stubborn.
I recently had a rib injury that knocked me out for two months. I was rolling with an aggressive training partner my skill level but half my age. He is not malicious but over aggressive and borderline reckless. I agree with your points about being smart about training partners and having the confidence to tell someone that you do not want to roll.
Completely agree with Ramsey's points.
I've been doing judo since early 2009, which is similar to Brazilian jiu-jitsu (BJJ). While judo helped me improve my physical health (helping me to lose 32kg or 70lbs in my first 10 months of training), judo did unfortunately create other issues for me... for example, my right shoulder has no cartilage and has arthritis, while my right knee has no ACL, no cartilage, arthritis, and only 30% of my meniscus.
These injuries unfortunately resulted from training partners doing the wrong thing, e.g., attempting incorrect or poor technique, as well as angry behavior. I have also sustained a severe injury from an inexperienced partner who became quite frightened at the prospect of being thrown (and we were just doing static throw-for-throw work).
As a judo coach, I talk to our students about the difference between "aggression" and "anger". Aggression is having the will and courage to engage your partner (or opponent) and attempt the technique(s) you want to do, in an offensive or defensive manner. Anger however, is emotionally fueled, the person's ego comes into play and with that is a greater desire, not just to win, but to hurt. Anger can create inaccurate and sloppy technique.
Unfortunately with grappling-related combat sports (like judo, BJJ, wrestling etc.) injuries can be quite easy to obtain, when people do things incorrectly. If both participants are doing the right thing, then the risk of injury is quite small. However, if one, or both participants are doing incorrect thing(s), then the risk of injury can substantially increase... particularly to joints such as knees, elbows and shoulders.
Injury can also be increased or mitigated depending on how a coach runs their class. For example, the way we structure othe classes at our judo club is via periodized manner across three to four weeks... so, we gradually increase the intensity over a period over three to four weeks, then reduce the intensity, re-building back up.
Some "old school coaches" prefer to just flog their players with high intensity sessions again and again, over and over, which will obviously lead to an increased risk of sustaining an injury.
Not everyone who trains in judo, wrestling, or BJJ is going to go to elite level competition like world championships, Olympics etc. and that is okay... but participants may need to draw a line, if they feel that their physical health and well-being is at risk. While exercise is important for our health and future, we do not want preventable injuries to debilitate our future.
If there are members of your club who are difficult to work with, then if possible, don't work with them. Politely and calmly explain to your coach, in private, why you do not wish to train with this person (or people) anymore. If your coach is an "old school coach" who prefers to smash their athletes every single training session, then... well, I'd hate to say it, but it might be worth looking into a different club, or sport entirely.
Great video response, Ramsey.
I practice iron fist. I practice a few other 'risky' things that can definitely cause injuries when people do not take proper precaution in training and approach it with the necessary knowledge to accomplish that training safely.. I'm glad you called it out, because it sounds like the person was either dealing with a bad instructor who did not teach how to properly train with a partner safely, or a series of bad partners who weren't picking up on good instruction. Whew. Scary tho. It really makes me want to be much more aware and mindful of what I'm doing *TO* the other person in partner training, versus what I'm doing *FOR* myself
Bulging discs most common problem. It's OK when you young but it will come back and haunt you... trust me.
I would rather tap BEFORE it hurts
"Let's roll light" the biggest scam. As a BJJ practioner for 20 yrs, pretty much all my black belt buddies all have devastating injuries- neck fused, shoulder, MCL/ACL, lower back surgery and the most recent one my buddy with 2 hip replacements. Most of these guys will barely be able to defend themselves now against an advance white belt. My best advice was Professor Steve Maxwell, told me when I was a blue belt, is to find a complimentary "soft internal art", Breathwork, Systema, Chi Kung, Chi Nah, Pilates etc., I can still roll with high level dudes but I do it with moderation. Learn to tap, breathe and relax. Beyond 50yrs of age you are only at half your life, you want to make sure you enjoy it with good health!
I agree 100%. A bad training partner can wind up injuring you (sometimes seriously) - especially in a martial art like BJJ. Sparring partners too (e.g. in western boxing, kickboxing, or Muay Thai) - a sparring partner that is “too enthusiastic” even when rules are set ahead of time can be problematic. For the inexperienced and experienced, don’t be afraid to bow out and then find another, more sensible, less “gung ho,” training partner. This is a very good question and thank you for answering it.
I know a few black belt BJJ guys that quit and the reason they told me was its too hard on the body as you get older. Injuries accumulate and either no longer heal properly or dont heal at all without surgery
My worst injury came from being a judo uke for somebody’s first belt test. He had to demonstrate the most basic technique in judo, de Ashi garai, the fundamental foot sweep, and instead he got me in some kind of standing ankle lock and ripped it loudly. This guy tried to “beat me” very seriously every time we rolled so it was extra salt in the wound. I was out of training for months and It gave me appreciation for the phrase “protect yourself at all times”
Very measured response. Thorough explanations. Nice one.😎👍🏾