How to deal with the prime directive in such a case? federation's headquarter: Do they or do they not have warp technology? starfleet officer: Not sure. It's complicated.
"They're launching ships from their home system using subspace waves." "So they don't use a warp drive. How do they slow down?" "Um...they don't, sir. One of their ships just came within a million kilometers of crashing into Mercury on its way through the Sol system." "...It sounds like their engineers didn't think things all the way through." "Given that their transmissions consisted mostly of apologies and warnings to 'Get the zarb out of the way,' I think their crew shares your opinion."
lol. I realise this is a joke, but I would assume the more specific definition would quickly become 'Is capable of FTL travel'. It's just that the prime directive was likely written in an era where nobody had encountered any technology that could be described as anything other than a version of warp drive.
I liked the episode, I even built my own model of this craft, but its not remotely similar to what a solar sail would need to be to work, more a case of placing a sail boat in space for an episode... a solar sail would need sails many km in size (it would have dwarfed the station) and would probably have spent the entire episode within sight of DS9 (its a REALLY slow way to accelerate, all jokes of 'relaxing' aside). So I don't know if the writers get points for putting the idea out there, or lose points for mischaracterizing the concept so badly; its not like its unknowable alien tech, we are working on the concept already in real life.
STO implements it as an experimental weapon. Its a soliton wave impeler. It fires mini waves loaded with lethal levels of radiation. I use it on my hit, cloak and run Romulan warbird. Inaccurate tbh but if you have a good line of sight and they are slow moving you can hit them inflicting devasting radiation damage if upgraded and speced right.
The one other thing about the Bajorian solar sail ship I personal feel you have missed is that the best distance between Bajor and Cardassia I've been able to find (from sources that problem aren't cannon) is the Cardassian System is 5.25 light years away from the Bajoran system. Which means if we assume the time we saw Ben and Jake at FTL speeds was how long they where at warp for, which was only a couple of minutes, they achieved a velocity equal to transwarp speed as they traveled over 5 light years in couple of minutes that's over half million times the speed of light (that's about equal to the Xindi subspace vortex). Of course it was never stated how long Ben and Jake's ship was at warp for and lets face fact Star Trek warp speeds are more based on the speed of plot rather than the actual speed of light. Plus it doesn't help that Star Trek writers are really bad at keeping continuity in my personal option.
Yeah, we don't know the timing. We do sort of know the ship design only had enough room for about 2 weeks or so worth of supplies. So that's kind of your upper limit on how slowly they could have traversed that distance. But speed of plot indeed. Enterprise highlights this to an absurd degree. We know the ship is designed for warp 5, and they even explicitly state the implied speed consistent with the old TOS warp scale. (5^3 = 125) We know the ship wasn't reaching it's full rated speed until several seasons in, and really only ever did warp 4.5 I don't know if they explicitly stated how fast warp 4.5 was as they did by stating warp 5 was 125x lightspeed... But based on the TOS scale warp 4.5 is about 91x lightspeed. OK, so where am I going with this? Well, in one of the Early Enterprise episodes they have to go to Kronos - the Klingon homeworld... And they say the trip will take '10 days there, 10 days back'. How far is that, given these speeds? well, (91/365)*10 is... 2.49 lightyears. We know the trip is from Earth/Sol to Kronos. We also know that the Star Trek universe obeys the known astronomical data, at least in close proximity to earth... (hence the battle of Wolf 359 and Alpha Centauri being referenced - Wolf 359 can be found in real world astronomical databases) And we know, from the real world that our closest neighbour, proxima centauri is about 4.1 lightyears away... And now you see what I'm getting at. XD Apparently, Kronos is closer to Earth than our nearest star... Yeah. Who needs consistency anyway, right?
@@KuraIthys Thanks for a great reply and totally agree with you. Personally I think they avoid telling us on screen the distance between places like Bajor and Cardassia or Bajor and Earth because 1; they know the fans will always be pointing out the flaws in their math of speed, distance, time equations, 2 they know their was no point because the next writer would either probable ignore the speed or the distance from previous script and change it completely, and 3 well basically they're all a bunch of idiot how couldn't keep the continuity of straight line. So better to say at warp 5, 7 or 9 and it'll take 1, 5 or 20 hours to get there, that way we hopeful don't figure out they haven't a clue what they're talking about lol :)
@@KuraIthys Yeah, they said that the Vulcans provided them with maps, but didn't bother to explain the value of it. I've heard theories on it that I've accepted into my head canon, but a lot of the writers don't bother to do the math.
Tachyon wakes were identified as the cause for the fast travel. In sailing it is easily compared to riding the trade winds. A normal sail won't take you at such speeds.
a i Probably. The amount of energy necessary to cloak an entire planet - presumably including the planet’s gravity, not just its appearance, or else its presence would still be detectable - would be millions, if not billions, of times more powerful than the warp drive of a Galaxy class starship...
2365: Q instigates the Federation's first contact with the Borg. 2378: Q chastises his son with *"DON'T PROVOKE THE BORG!"* He matured a lot in just 13 years... an eternity of boredom to a Q.
@@LordBloodraven Yes but the cube was already on its way Q was warning them what was comeing as the cube was respnding the the drones signal from enterprise
@@realhollow3675 The drones from the Enterprise were only there because of First Contact. Possibly this is a time loop or possibly Q would have done it whether or not the Borg were already coming.
@@danielrhouck Ye its a Paradox they were there due to FC and Fc was due to the drones XD as Janway always said i hate timetravel if you watch the Enterprise Ep at some point it they say oh the signal will take xxx years it works out not long before First Contact with the exscse time being the cubes travel time
Well they wound up in a dimension where thought invoked changes in reality so it may not have been the Traveler providing the energy but the concentration of the Traveler trying to guide the warp bubble hence the distraction of the Traveler led to the mess they were in. That episode was a little too new age for me, the idea that our thoughts directly impacted reality, a bit of a reference to early human mystical beliefs.
I would also be interested in hearing more about the borg transwarp corridors. They used them in one or two episodes and then never visited them again. They seemed to have been fixed wormholes much like the one near DS9. The borg sgip merely sent a code and the corridor opened like a garage door and the ship went off on a galactic super highway basically.
There is also the Vaadwaur underspace, a natural network of subspace corridors, there are some others spread across the galaxy, including some inside what may now be Federation space (inside the Delphic expanse). But if we are going for the best and fastest FTL, then its the Iconian gates, direct instant connections to any other gate anywere in the universe, admittedly that network was effectively destroyed long ago. There is also the FTL system used by the Voth, that uses some form of transwarp drive.
There was this transporter like device that this planet's people used that the Voyager crew tried to steal that could have sent everyone 43k light years away
I actually watched that episode not too long ago. The reason Voyager couldn't make use of it was due to power requirements. Something about the mantel of that planet's crust acted to amplify the power being put into the technology. When they tried to use it on Voyager (after making an unsanctioned back-room trade for it), they nearly blew up the ship trying to make it work before they figured out why they couldn't. But the they said the tech worked basically by folding space, which is sort of a holy grail for Sci-Fi FTL. When you can literally bring point B to your starting point A, travel time becomes sort of a non-issue.
I feel like you've missed the most obvious one it's frequently used in all of the Star Treks, wormholes these do not require vessels to be using warp drive. All you have to do is fall into the gravity well of one. And the acceleration within the Wormhole it self flings you out the other side. And secondly what about the transwarp hubs that the Borg use these weren't generated by engines within the ship itself there generated by preexisting tunneling technology. Borg ships fly through Rings basically like Stargates and there's miniature Stargates inside the whole system that you can travel from one Stargate to the next kind of an ideas what then that has absolutely nothing to do with the ship and you're traveling at FTL.
Wormholes aren't exactly FTL travel. They're more a direct shortcut between two fixed points in space-time. (Like folding the fabric of the universe in half.) Though I suppose all the FTL methods are technically "cheats," because they use loopholes in physics to achieve the desired result.
I'm not sure if these examples are what you're looking for but: The USS relativity was able to travel to different places and time periods. The xindi are able to travel faster using corridors.
The Caretaker Array using Null Space would also explain the damage to Voyager, since the properties of Null Space have random damaging effects on a vessel's power grid, and Voyager suffered a cascade overload of her EPS grid.
What about all the warp drives that _didn't have vulnerable nacelles,_ and *all the Tech that they could have taken but didn't !!* That ties into the first part, Archer had a Suiliban Cell ship in the NX's hangar for months and Trip just tinkers with it till it's lost. They should've made a beeline straight for Starfleet engineering HQ to reverse engineer all the advanced tech - including cloaking, better weapons, life support sensors ect _and a compact warp drive_ better than the Enterprise's without any nacelles and could work in a craft smaller than their shuttles (which couldn't fit any warp drive). By the time the Xindi pop round, the new NX mark 2 is a stealth powerhouse. Oh and there's the Ferengi long range ship they nabbed, with its database as well. But of course Janeway also passed up some good stuff that fits in here… the *Translocator,* that is a transporter that works at up to 40 (or 10?) light years through shields the Nyrians used to hijack ships. At closer range it can do an entire crew at once, and would be a ultimate weapon since you could beam off a enemy ships crew in combat. Well Voyager captured the translator ship and only used it to return the other captives home - *they had possession of it!* And it probably had other high tech goodies as well. Now as for TNG, I'll hit the character limit on comments. So video idea, advanced technology they had their hands on but didn't take to reverse engineer. A separate video for each series (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, DIS and Kelvin timeline) and the ramifications for Starfleet if they had got it. Kelvin? I hear you all through rhetorical device… let me demonstrate. *Kirk:* Spock, get in that ship and fly around inside the Narada, they can't target you unless you blow through to the outside, and don't get hit, it's full of red matter and we're above Earth. Target their bridge and strafe any Romulans you detect. I'll get Pike. *Spock:* Wouldn't it be more logical to use the transporter on this advanced ship that apparently will respond to me, to beam captain Pike onboard? *Kirk:* ……? Good point, we can capture both future ships and reverse engineer everything. *Spock:* Won't that irrevocably damage the timelines… oh right, my Homeworld.
Consider the Temporal Cold War, there could have been an attempt by certain forces to sabatogue(spellcheck has no clue how to spell this word) the Federation by having them reverse engineer the Suiliban Cell ship that Archer had.
Isn't the canon excuse that non-nacelle warp drives are only used by species that don't care about being constantly dosed with high levels of radiation? The Suliban genetic tinkering probably helped protect them.
There was the Spatial Trajector from a 1st season VOY episode. It was more a big transporter than a propulsion system though. It's only a half example since the episode was vague about if a ship side system was needed, but it could only be used near a specific planet as an amplifier because of the plot-ore-crystals in the crust.
Thank you for including the solar sail ship, it seems to be left out of most Star Trek information and that is one of the saddest things. The Sail ships are ingenious especially for the technology involved.
@@popuptoaster Well yes and no a solar sail can be used to lower an orbit by tilting it so the thrust vector is retrograde to relative to the orbital path. But this is not tacking in a normal sense as the sun's gravity is pulling it in. They also can be used for attitude control as well by varying the angle of multiple sails.
Except the sails were way too small. As to people complaining about steering a solar sail. It isn't like a sailship on water, the sails are angled to increase or decrease orbital velocity. It's a matter of vectors and having the undesired vectors from various sails canceling out and a matter of the gravity of whatever it's orbiting. Dr. Forward's laser sail interstellar craft had a sail that could have two sections detached, the first detached section would reflect the beam from Earth so the spaceship could decelerate and the second detached section reflected the beam from Earth to accelerate the ship back to Earth. This all worked because Earth, the destination star and the spaceship were all moving at significantly less than the speed of light while the beam traveled at lightspeed so they weren't all in line and not even have the same angle of travel with each other in terms of the beams path. Solar sails do work, when one of the gyroscopes/momentum wheels on the Keppler spacecraft froze, it used it's solar panels to provide thrust at an angle so that the remaining gyroscopes/wheels could maintain orientation versus that solar thrust thereby allowing further use of the telescope over another range of the sky. Solar sails thrust can be varied over limited ranges of vectors around the ship so it takes a little bit of cleverness and multiple sails to get the direction you want and not all directions are possible at a given time without a circuitous route but steering and slowing down and even returning towards the light source is possible as the return path would not be the same as the light path.
I agree with Barry Bend, do more Macross videos, man I love that franchise but god do I hate Harmony Gold... Don't get me wrong Robotech was good and could have been great if not for those a***oles at Harmony Gold... All Harmony Gold does is say oh let do this new Robotech game, movie, series or revival... weeks, months and years of promising a new game, movie, series or revival and taking money from fan in some kick starter, oh no where concealing the project it won't work sorry everyone for rising your hopes. While behind the scenes they're rubbing their hands together at all the money they conned out their fans for hollow promises they never intended to keep... goddamn criminals. Sorry for the rant but I hate Harmony Gold and hate those b***ards at Totsunoko for renewing the license with Harmony Gold.
There were a few other instances of FTL without Warp. In the TOS episode "That Which Survives" the 1701 was mysteriously thrown 990.7 light years away from a mystery planet which was later discovered to house an automated outpost of a long defunct space Empire. In TNG season 1 "When The Bough Breaks" there was a society that had a planetary defense system which could throw a Startship for a considerable distance. It was mentioned that the distance could be adjusted depending on the threat. Then of course there's Q!
You forgot two big ones. The first you might argue was using a power source on the ship, but I'm going to list it anyway. The Traveler was able to convert imagination and wishes from the crew into motivational power for the ship taking it at speeds not measurable by the equipment on the ship. Yes, he pushed this into the warp core so you might discount it, and one could argue that the crew is on the ship so really the ship was still being propelled by resources within the ship. Still, though the Traveler wasn't even using the interface in the way it was intended and was more just willing things to work the way he wanted vs how anything was designed to work. The second would be multiple instances of the Q just flinging things from one end of the universe to the other on a whim. Sort of like the Traveler but even more so as the Q can do so without seemingly needing to concentrate on the effort, and they can do so from fully within their own power, without having to have an entire crew direct their wishes towards the Q like they needed to with the Traveler.
Interesting video, the bajorian "solar-sails" ship has always been interesting for me. I have an update on my personal star trelk ship's (USS Georgia) propulsion: as i already said she has both Quantum Slipstream Drive as well as Warp drive, however, to enhance the warp drive (and possibly to fix the issues of slipstream) a small but continuous stream of tachyons is injected in the warp plasma, creating what i call "Tachyon Augmented Warp Drive"; this has the effect, since tachyons travel FTL naturally, that when the plasma reaches the nacelles, the tachyons, in a sense, "carry" the ship with them, thus enhancing the speed of the vessel (not by that great of a margin, as the tachyon stream has to be kept balanced to prevent flodding the warp core, see USS Voyager). P.S. If you wonder why tachyons can traver FTL naturally is because they have negative mass (photons have no mass, while objects like you for example have positive mass).
The graviton ellipse took that old Earth mars explorer all the way to the delta quadrant. It was a natural phenomena but if you could create the effect and control it, it seemed to be self sustaining.
Oh my goodness!! I've mentioned the Sikarian Spatial Trajector in the comments of your videos 3 or 4 times now, this was the perfect video in which to feature it and you still missed it.
Thank you so much for pointing out all the flaws from the lightship episode. I was a kid when that episode came out and even then I was confused how Sisko and Jake werent killed or how it broke the FTL barrier without a warp bubble.
I remember in the Star Trek Deep Space 9 season 3 episode 'Explorers' where Sisko built that ancient Bajoran ship he kept getting contacted by Gul Dukat to not undergo this endeavor even though in the end Sisko and Jake arrived the same way the ancient Bajorans did when they found themselves in Cardassian space and saw 3 Cardassian Galor Class Warships with Dukat onboard and told Sisko congratulations on the journey celebrating the 800th anniversary of that journey with the 3 ships setting off fireworks of all things and I'll bet when it was all over Dukat had his ships bring Sisko and Jake safely back to DS9.
Could you do a video on the in universe science behind inertial dampeners? I can't find a lot online about it, even Memory Alpha doesn't have much: mostly just episodic mentions of dampeners in each series. It seems like a super important piece of a star ship and when they fail its catastrophic to the crew.
If the caretaker array is included, shouldn't Kes and Q transportation of Voyager and Enterprise-D count? They are all outside forces acting on a ship without the ship being involved. And both are shown to physically move through space, not just being snapped to a new location by Q.
It's been a long time since I've seen the episode but I thought Sisko's light sail craft entered a conduit or river of space that flowed FTL so the craft itself did not travel FTL, it was the space it entered that did with a bit of spatial turbulence in that space hence the rough ride, significant turbulence would be tidal effects that could've ripped them apart. Of course that would require an asymmetric source of dark energy, an equivalent sink or dispersal field of space as well as something that would constrain this flow of space from the rest of the universe to said dispersal field or sink. It would also mean the dispersal field would be unusually resource or rather material rich which presumably would mean Cardasia space would have a wealth of resources perhaps even being an asymmetric nebula with no apparent supernova source. Of course the very nature of dark energy which expands space means that it would naturally be disperse, never concentrated and certainly not have asymmetric sources or be constrained. if we ever find a white hole other than the Big Bang itself, that would be an observation of concentrated dark energy but still not demonstrate a way of concentrating dark energy or constraining it into a asymmetric source and or stream. I never heard this stream of tachyons mentioned before though technically anything moving FTL could be said to be a tachyon, sounds like it's fan retcon post episode at least it sounds like that to me. Of course I also might've misheard or forgotten whatever in dialog supposition they may have given. I guess if we find a black hole with a significantly asymmetrically distorted accretion disc than we might be able to find a river of space that flowed differently from the rest of space but such a black hole would only be a sink for such flow as an actual sink isn't necessary just a source and constraints which means finding white holes. However it's hard enough to observe black holes and we have never found a white hole other than the Big Bang.
It's possible that dark energy works like reverse gravity (and account for universal expansion), which would be the equivalent of a reverse black hole. Combing a portable black hole and dark energy in line could produce an actual warp drive. (Alcubierre style... the dark energy pushes the ship from behind while the harnessed black hole pulls in front, creating a warp bubble.)
@@brendansmith9674 It has to be more complicated than just a warp bubble though as he broke warp 10, which depending on which Star Trek lore you follow is the maximum before being everywhere at once.
Ah, Good old Voyager. We could go home, but nooo, they'll use this station for evil!. "But captain, we have had timed explosives for 4 centuries we could just..." Janeway: "Fire all weapons!"
There's also the Voyager S1E10 'Prime Factors' with the Sikarians Folded-space transporter (memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Folded-space_transporter ) which are used by Eudana to take her and Harry to a planet 40,000 light years away.
STTNG "Where No One Has Gone Before"--The Traveler channeled thought to hurl the Enterprise to the very edge of existence. Surely that qualifies, and is much more interesting and believable than the ridiculous spore drive of ST Discovery.
I wouldn't suggest that we include this one, but there was this old star trek book called Vendetta. It involved someone mind linked with a planet killer and through sheer force of will (i guess?) they moved infinitely closer toward warp 10. This in turn had the effect of moving them infinitely slower in time. So i figure that either there's a planet killer stuck in subspace somewhere quite literally going nowhere fast, or is traveling the universe at ludicrous speeds.
There was that episode on Voyager named "One Small Step". It probably doesn't count as "warp speed", but that thing was in the delta quadrant much faster than the speed of light would allow.
The Voth (Is transwarp still warp?)? Species 8472? Episode Vis À Vis of Voyager? The Xindi vortices? The Borg (again, transwarp)? The quantum slipstream drive on Arturis' vessel?
5:43 Gravity plating and inertial dampers are tightly related technologies. They'd certainly be thrown about as they weren't using a full damper array, but as long as the ship is generating its own gravity, they would be OK.
The Borg transwarp network would probably qualify here as well, since although individual ships had their own transwarp drives, we did see in Voyager that the Borg made use of a large network of "gates" which presumably endowed them with longer range or greater speed.
The Bajoran sailing ship was one of the episodes where the writers really dropped the ball on the science side. As a comparison, a solar sail at Earth's distance from the sun would need to be 800 by 800 meters to generate roughly 5 newtons, the equivalent of pushing on the spacecraft with 1lb of force. So, even with sails that large, and if we're very generous and assume the craft, including sails is 1/4 the weight of a standard federation runabout, (28 metric tons divided by 4) we get an acceleration of 0.0007143 meters per second squared. It would take 26 hours to accelerate to 150mph. Also, even if tachyons existed, assuming they would accelerate the ship to FTL speeds is like assuming light itself would propel the craft to lightspeed... and even if all that worked, as you said, the Siskos (and the original bajorans) would have been red spots on the back wall.
The catapult could be extremely useful. Not only could you use it to minimize travel time all over the alpha/beta quadrant but you could also build an array of space stations that "point" at each other making all of the Milky Way accessible by the federation
Borg transwarp corridors didn't utilise on board warp drives, did they? Also, what did the Voth use? I know it enables them to travel faster than warp ten.
How about when Kes pushed Voyager through the rest of Borg space, saving them 10 years, or when the traveler used his knowledge and Wesley Crusher's mind to super FTL the Enterprise. Or the Q continuum that is basically omnipotent and can take any vessel anywhere at any time. I guess if you're going to disqualify the Vaudwar subspace corridors for the reason you did you'd also disqualify the Bajoran Wormhole and the trans warp conduits of the borg. The crystalline entity of TNG might qualify as it is an organism that can move at warp speed but clearly wouldn't have a warp drive.
Yes, Kes came to mind that she was somehow able to it via psychic powers. I consider the Q Continuum power to be teleportation but I guess a jump drive is just a form of teleportation.
So the quantum slipstream drive wasn't in your list, because it required a warp drive, that had to be modified?
5 років тому+4
You forgot one method: In TNG "When the Bough Breaks" the Aldeans catapults the Enterprise-D out of the system some light years away with a Repulsor beam -> memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Repulsor_beam Same happened to the original Enterprises in Orbit of the Kalandan Outpost.
There was a natural phenomenon Voyager encountered that contained an Earth ship from an early Mars mission. This natural artifact when Seven and Chakotay were exploring it had scooped up ships, debris, and artifacts whenever it came out of subspace but popped out all over the galaxy. And don't forget the energy ribbon from Star Trek The Next Generation (the movie) that sucked up Kirk and Guinnen was exposed too.
Janeway was a budding war criminal that was absolutely needed to get her ship home in one piece, and was swiftly promoted to Vice Admiral so she couldn't command another starship, and thus possibly genocide the Romulans for spilling her coffee.
Cal Anon, 😂😂😂REAL TALK! Hey, she wanted to get BY you, if she could. However, if you wanted to make THROUGH you... Tomato/Tomāto.🤷🏿♂️👠💋💅🏿🦄🌹☄️🎯💥💥💥🤙🏿✌🏿👉🏿
Cal Anon, you CANNOT say she never offered them a choice, though. What I liked most about her was her faith in her crew. She never believed her position was one of weakness, because she understood that her true strength lied with them. Her ability to delegate the right duties to the right crew is where her leadership stood out. Her ability to maintain discipline, even with new additions, in those conditions?! Yeah. It will make you hard, but do you think she would have been successful (and barely so) if she was one micrometer softer? I think she was tried harder than any other Captain. By harder challenges than any other Captain faced. Furthermore, I don’t think she started out that way. She grew into that hardness, because that was what was necessary. She never whined. I’ll always believe that her being underestimated by her enemies (because she was a woman, and I believe, regardless of species, that may have been made to intentionally “matter”, from the writers’ perspective) lead to her being challenged so much. It’s not like she went out of her way looking for trouble. Instead, when trouble that couldn’t be avoided appeared along her chosen path, she rose to meet it. Giving it the merciless force of a true Captain on a mission to save her crew. If you got erased, you got erased. Janeway played for keeps against other thugs that played for keeps. First Place was the only place. 🇺🇸🐐
The light ship is more complicated. During the final battle of the Dominion War the fleet was at DS9. I don't remember who said it, but it was said that it takes 3 days to get to Cardasian space. Jake and Sicko got there in a day after reaching the Denorius Belt.
On the matter of her lack of an internal dampening system what is solar sail in Deep Space nine. If Commander Sisko and Jake traveled in the device you're talking about the Lack of a inertia dampening system doesn't matter if the craft takes off slowly and build momentum like our solar sails will which we already have and I think have either already launched them or I getting ready to launch little tiny ones anyway. there's no rough inertia. because it's like a sailboat not a drag racer it may take half the trip to get to warp speed and it wouldn't kill them up warp seed itself is not what kills you it's the transition from normal speed to warp speed faster than light.
There was that living ship that was the last of its kind in TNG that a Bajoran guest character ended up becoming its sole crewman. Also some other life forms like that gas cloud that tracked down de-powered Q or those tadpole looking space whales in that TNG episode where a baby one latched onto the Enterprise. Also, remember those giant space jellyfish that eat energy who can replicate anything from the Farpoint episode? Those too. Remember the Crystal Entity that eliminated the colony that Data was found on? I doubt that life form had a warp drive. Star Trek Voyager's / STO's Changelings don't have typical warp drives in their bioships. All of the ST: TOS shuttles don't have warp drives but can travel at warp speed if the episode needs them to. The Runabout was supposed to be the first Star Trek shuttle with warp drive but trekkies knew that warp-capable shuttles were not a new thing. Don't forget that Scotty could theoretically jimmy an impulse drive to temporarily work as a warp drive in theory. Then again, there never was nor their ever will be an engineer like Scotty... not even LaForge, Data, O'Brien, Nog, Wesly Crusher, Seven of Nine, and Torres and they were amazing amazing. You also forgot the warp drive bypassing device that Barklay made when he had that brain boost in TNG. I won't even get into the various wormholes, underspace tunnels, transwarp networks, and other external sources that allow anyone and anything to travel faster than light by using them. That was not a complete list of FTL ways ships traveled in Star Trek. Other science fiction universes covered other ways that Star Trek can still use. I am purposely ignoring ST:D on this one. I still don't acknowledge that great science fiction show as a real Star Trek show, less Star Trek than the Star Trek parody The Orville.
so two parts here. One you missed the Xindi corridors in the delphic expanse but they don't exist past enterprise. Two (a little less seriously) when it comes to the bajoran sail ship I've always assumed That it was made from a similar material as a standard warp coil (due to the color of the sail being similar to some depictions of warp coils). I Feel like if this material was being excited by the tachyons in much the same way as warp plasma excites a warp coil that a small subspace bubble could be formed and maintained. It probably only worked because the sails where so much larger then the ship and of course the size of the ship.
The first option you mention just makes me think of Mass Effect's transportation method. Go over to a specific location, and get launched to some other specific location.
As soon as Starfleet realized the Soliton wave could be used as a weapon, they should've developed it as a weapon of last resort, especially during the Dominion War.
But then various races who fear a soliton attack will develop scattering field generators and deploy them in any star system they feel needs them. An attacker (Federation or whoever) wanting to use a soliton wave on someone else first has to sabotage their intended target's scattering field emitters, and the arms race carries on from there.
Vulcans apparently colonized a few nearby systems, contacted a few nearby species, and even inadvertently founded the Romulan empire many lightyears away without any true FTL propulsion. Humans also colonized a few extrasolar planets with sleeper ships, although some of these didn't actually arrive at their destinations until years after humans developed warp propulsion.
I love the Coaxial Warp. It's nearly instantaneous, and faster than Transwarp. And Transwarp is more sufficient and faster than the Quantum Slipstream.
No mention of the wormhole? Also, Jake/Ben got to Cardassia fairly quickly, much quicker than you would expect if the distance is so great that it was deemed impossible without FTL speeds. This may indicate that they did undergo some time dialation.
What about the graviton ellipse from Voyager? It traveled around the galaxy. No telling if it could be controlled in any fashion but who knows? Imagine putting space station in select locations that could manipulate it's path. Then you would need a vessel that could travel in and out of the ellipse. Probably a good idea to clean up the debris it collected.
Regardng the Solar Sailer, I gathered myself that since the ship clearly had artificial gravity that Sisko also installed innertial dampeners. Probably salvaging parts from a federation or bajoran shuttle craft to act as a back and life support system. The only requisit of the ship was that it not be warp drive capable not that it have no tech at all. It would have been smart behavior as then if they became stranded they would be less likely to die in cold space.
An Iconian Gateway - you can in theory fly a ship through there (so no warp-drive needed), then again: With that tech you don't need ships (unless you want to explore the solar system you ended up in)
The Solar sailer might have generated a warp field through the Cherenkov effect as it was dragged into superluminal speeds by the tachyons. This with the fact that as an object approaches C the object gains in mass and suffers from time dilation could explain why the Sisko's trip seemed like a few minutes to them. That said, that ship would need decon. She would be hot.
What about the two scientists in TNG that said that warp travel above warp 6 was hirting subspace? So they developed their own method and then just flew away at the end of the episode?
@White Rice what do you mean lack of evidence? It travels FTL. It would have had to organically create warp drives which isn't really a thing that can happen since they are man made. So therefore the evidence points towards FTL travel without warp drives.
With the Bajoran sailing ship, tachyons let's say are not capable of slower than light speeds. And when they hit something like the solar sails, the laws of physics prevented them from moving slower than light speed, and the ship from moving faster than light. And therefore it created a natural warp drive where the tachyon then pulled space towards it, and when the space moved past the tachyon the space expanded behind it. And that resulted in the Bajoran ship moving at warp speeds with an accidental natural warp drive.
How to deal with the prime directive in such a case?
federation's headquarter: Do they or do they not have warp technology?
starfleet officer: Not sure. It's complicated.
"They're launching ships from their home system using subspace waves."
"So they don't use a warp drive. How do they slow down?"
"Um...they don't, sir. One of their ships just came within a million kilometers of crashing into Mercury on its way through the Sol system."
"...It sounds like their engineers didn't think things all the way through."
"Given that their transmissions consisted mostly of apologies and warnings to 'Get the zarb out of the way,' I think their crew shares your opinion."
@@CharlesUrban sounds like something Douglas Adams would have come up with! 😀
@@CharlesUrban "That explains the wedge-shaped devices mounted to the front of their ships"
Not sure if warp of sub-transwarp?
lol. I realise this is a joke, but I would assume the more specific definition would quickly become 'Is capable of FTL travel'.
It's just that the prime directive was likely written in an era where nobody had encountered any technology that could be described as anything other than a version of warp drive.
Federation: Wait, how did Sisko survive the trip on the solar sailer if it has no warp bubble?
Prophets: Nyuk nyuk nyuk
I didn't know they were in the original script, but they immediately came to mind.
Actual warp drive concepts that trek borrowed for their scripts do not involve bubbles. That's an invention of trek.
Oh, those Prophets! (Laugh track, roll credits.)
Because he's The Sisko and even the laws of physics fear The Sisko
I liked the episode, I even built my own model of this craft, but its not remotely similar to what a solar sail would need to be to work, more a case of placing a sail boat in space for an episode... a solar sail would need sails many km in size (it would have dwarfed the station) and would probably have spent the entire episode within sight of DS9 (its a REALLY slow way to accelerate, all jokes of 'relaxing' aside). So I don't know if the writers get points for putting the idea out there, or lose points for mischaracterizing the concept so badly; its not like its unknowable alien tech, we are working on the concept already in real life.
Don't forget Iconian Gates.
The time travel device old Janeway used in Endgame transported her across both space and time.
Time and space.
*TIME AND SPACE TIME AND SPACE TIME AND SPACE TIME AND SPACE*
yea but both times youre not really.moving ftl
@@a.l.e.x8118 by that definition the Caretaker probably doesn't count either.
Or heck, warp travel isn't really "moving" either.
Time And Relative Dimensions In Space?
Iconian gates don't move ships, though
Riker moving in when he sees a female.
You mean Kirk. Oh, wait, that's *transwarp.*
Usually the females get him not vise a versa
Do you always approach women at warp speed
@@marcrasm yes
Or Q when he sees Picard
You should list Voyager's shortcuts and speed boosts.
(Kinda like the Voyager Torpedo Count video)
Seems like the Soliton Wave would make a good weapon.
SeCtIoN ThIrTeEn wOuLd LiKe To KnOw YoUr LoCaTiOn...
@@seand.g423 *section 31
An FTL rail gun... Interesting.
STO implements it as an experimental weapon. Its a soliton wave impeler. It fires mini waves loaded with lethal levels of radiation. I use it on my hit, cloak and run Romulan warbird. Inaccurate tbh but if you have a good line of sight and they are slow moving you can hit them inflicting devasting radiation damage if upgraded and speced right.
was wondering why they never tried to use it against the borg or dominion?
The one other thing about the Bajorian solar sail ship I personal feel you have missed is that the best distance between Bajor and Cardassia I've been able to find (from sources that problem aren't cannon) is the Cardassian System is 5.25 light years away from the Bajoran system. Which means if we assume the time we saw Ben and Jake at FTL speeds was how long they where at warp for, which was only a couple of minutes, they achieved a velocity equal to transwarp speed as they traveled over 5 light years in couple of minutes that's over half million times the speed of light (that's about equal to the Xindi subspace vortex).
Of course it was never stated how long Ben and Jake's ship was at warp for and lets face fact Star Trek warp speeds are more based on the speed of plot rather than the actual speed of light. Plus it doesn't help that Star Trek writers are really bad at keeping continuity in my personal option.
Yeah, we don't know the timing.
We do sort of know the ship design only had enough room for about 2 weeks or so worth of supplies.
So that's kind of your upper limit on how slowly they could have traversed that distance.
But speed of plot indeed.
Enterprise highlights this to an absurd degree.
We know the ship is designed for warp 5, and they even explicitly state the implied speed consistent with the old TOS warp scale.
(5^3 = 125)
We know the ship wasn't reaching it's full rated speed until several seasons in, and really only ever did warp 4.5
I don't know if they explicitly stated how fast warp 4.5 was as they did by stating warp 5 was 125x lightspeed...
But based on the TOS scale warp 4.5 is about 91x lightspeed.
OK, so where am I going with this?
Well, in one of the Early Enterprise episodes they have to go to Kronos - the Klingon homeworld...
And they say the trip will take '10 days there, 10 days back'.
How far is that, given these speeds? well, (91/365)*10 is...
2.49 lightyears.
We know the trip is from Earth/Sol to Kronos.
We also know that the Star Trek universe obeys the known astronomical data, at least in close proximity to earth...
(hence the battle of Wolf 359 and Alpha Centauri being referenced - Wolf 359 can be found in real world astronomical databases)
And we know, from the real world that our closest neighbour, proxima centauri is about 4.1 lightyears away...
And now you see what I'm getting at. XD
Apparently, Kronos is closer to Earth than our nearest star...
Yeah. Who needs consistency anyway, right?
@@KuraIthys Thanks for a great reply and totally agree with you.
Personally I think they avoid telling us on screen the distance between places like Bajor and Cardassia or Bajor and Earth because 1; they know the fans will always be pointing out the flaws in their math of speed, distance, time equations, 2 they know their was no point because the next writer would either probable ignore the speed or the distance from previous script and change it completely, and 3 well basically they're all a bunch of idiot how couldn't keep the continuity of straight line.
So better to say at warp 5, 7 or 9 and it'll take 1, 5 or 20 hours to get there, that way we hopeful don't figure out they haven't a clue what they're talking about lol :)
@@KuraIthys Yeah, they said that the Vulcans provided them with maps, but didn't bother to explain the value of it. I've heard theories on it that I've accepted into my head canon, but a lot of the writers don't bother to do the math.
above average speeds.
Tachyon wakes were identified as the cause for the fast travel. In sailing it is easily compared to riding the trade winds. A normal sail won't take you at such speeds.
The Aldean repulsor beam pushed the Enterprise-D in a matter of seconds a distance it took them three days to backtrack at maximum warp.
I still wonder if Radue really meant what he said. They could be sent so far away, only returning to elderly children.
a i Probably. The amount of energy necessary to cloak an entire planet - presumably including the planet’s gravity, not just its appearance, or else its presence would still be detectable - would be millions, if not billions, of times more powerful than the warp drive of a Galaxy class starship...
@@CtrlOptDel 😨 No wonder they were sterile and barren.
Was gonna say this one. Also the effect the traveler had could be mentioned
Q when he decides to mess with someone and fling them halfway across the galaxy.
2365: Q instigates the Federation's first contact with the Borg.
2378: Q chastises his son with *"DON'T PROVOKE THE BORG!"*
He matured a lot in just 13 years... an eternity of boredom to a Q.
Lord Bloodraven my theory was Q made contact far sooner so the federation would be ready for the Borg
@@LordBloodraven Yes but the cube was already on its way Q was warning them what was comeing as the cube was respnding the the drones signal from enterprise
@@realhollow3675 The drones from the Enterprise were only there because of First Contact. Possibly this is a time loop or possibly Q would have done it whether or not the Borg were already coming.
@@danielrhouck Ye its a Paradox they were there due to FC and Fc was due to the drones XD as Janway always said i hate timetravel if you watch the Enterprise Ep at some point it they say oh the signal will take xxx years it works out not long before First Contact with the exscse time being the cubes travel time
"Tachyon Eddies"
Tachyons...is there anything they _can't_ do?
Going along time-like paths 😜
Be consistent.
Interact with normal matter in an appreciable way... that's what they can't do.
Eddie's in the space-time continuum? How'd he get in there?
@@dropdead234 He used Eddie's eddies to interact with the eddies.
the traveler, his own energy propelled the Enterprise D to other galaxies.
Yes! Excellent episode
Please don't remind us... I mean there are a couple of good episodes but the vast majority of TNG involved stupid shit like him and his protegae
I think technically he was using the warp drive, just boosting it with his own power.
Well they wound up in a dimension where thought invoked changes in reality so it may not have been the Traveler providing the energy but the concentration of the Traveler trying to guide the warp bubble hence the distraction of the Traveler led to the mess they were in. That episode was a little too new age for me, the idea that our thoughts directly impacted reality, a bit of a reference to early human mystical beliefs.
I believe the traveler used speed of thought. To move the ship very very fast, pretending it was the other guys boosting of the engines.
You're missing Tom Paris hitting on that Voyager crew member when being shuttled aboard Voyager for the first time.
What about the various species that can naturally warp? Tin man, crystalline entity and catamaran?
Camera man
Technically still under their own power
The Borg tranwarp corridors seamed to work without a warp drive
I would also be interested in hearing more about the borg transwarp corridors. They used them in one or two episodes and then never visited them again. They seemed to have been fixed wormholes much like the one near DS9. The borg sgip merely sent a code and the corridor opened like a garage door and the ship went off on a galactic super highway basically.
I’m surprised there aren’t more stargates in Star Trek
There is also the Vaadwaur underspace, a natural network of subspace corridors, there are some others spread across the galaxy, including some inside what may now be Federation space (inside the Delphic expanse). But if we are going for the best and fastest FTL, then its the Iconian gates, direct instant connections to any other gate anywere in the universe, admittedly that network was effectively destroyed long ago.
There is also the FTL system used by the Voth, that uses some form of transwarp drive.
The iconian's version of what basically amounts to a super powerful teleporter would count under this.
There was this transporter like device that this planet's people used that the Voyager crew tried to steal that could have sent everyone 43k light years away
Trajector. Good for short jumps.
"Crew tried to steal it" sums up Voyager pretty well.
im sure it messed up the ship in some way
I actually watched that episode not too long ago. The reason Voyager couldn't make use of it was due to power requirements. Something about the mantel of that planet's crust acted to amplify the power being put into the technology. When they tried to use it on Voyager (after making an unsanctioned back-room trade for it), they nearly blew up the ship trying to make it work before they figured out why they couldn't.
But the they said the tech worked basically by folding space, which is sort of a holy grail for Sci-Fi FTL. When you can literally bring point B to your starting point A, travel time becomes sort of a non-issue.
@@ShadowWolf289 A Space Folding drive was basically what the Co-Axial Warp Drive was in essence.
I feel like you've missed the most obvious one it's frequently used in all of the Star Treks, wormholes these do not require vessels to be using warp drive. All you have to do is fall into the gravity well of one. And the acceleration within the Wormhole it self flings you out the other side. And secondly what about the transwarp hubs that the Borg use these weren't generated by engines within the ship itself there generated by preexisting tunneling technology. Borg ships fly through Rings basically like Stargates and there's miniature Stargates inside the whole system that you can travel from one Stargate to the next kind of an ideas what then that has absolutely nothing to do with the ship and you're traveling at FTL.
Wormholes aren't exactly FTL travel. They're more a direct shortcut between two fixed points in space-time. (Like folding the fabric of the universe in half.)
Though I suppose all the FTL methods are technically "cheats," because they use loopholes in physics to achieve the desired result.
@@Swiftbow 2 years later, but there is also the fact that there is only one known stable wormhole in Star Trek's Milky Way, the Bajoran Wormhole.
I'm not sure if these examples are what you're looking for but:
The USS relativity was able to travel to different places and time periods. The xindi are able to travel faster using corridors.
The Caretaker Array using Null Space would also explain the damage to Voyager, since the properties of Null Space have random damaging effects on a vessel's power grid, and Voyager suffered a cascade overload of her EPS grid.
What about all the warp drives that _didn't have vulnerable nacelles,_ and *all the Tech that they could have taken but didn't !!*
That ties into the first part, Archer had a Suiliban Cell ship in the NX's hangar for months and Trip just tinkers with it till it's lost. They should've made a beeline straight for Starfleet engineering HQ to reverse engineer all the advanced tech - including cloaking, better weapons, life support sensors ect _and a compact warp drive_ better than the Enterprise's without any nacelles and could work in a craft smaller than their shuttles (which couldn't fit any warp drive).
By the time the Xindi pop round, the new NX mark 2 is a stealth powerhouse.
Oh and there's the Ferengi long range ship they nabbed, with its database as well.
But of course Janeway also passed up some good stuff that fits in here… the *Translocator,* that is a transporter that works at up to 40 (or 10?) light years through shields the Nyrians used to hijack ships. At closer range it can do an entire crew at once, and would be a ultimate weapon since you could beam off a enemy ships crew in combat.
Well Voyager captured the translator ship and only used it to return the other captives home - *they had possession of it!* And it probably had other high tech goodies as well.
Now as for TNG, I'll hit the character limit on comments.
So video idea, advanced technology they had their hands on but didn't take to reverse engineer. A separate video for each series (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, DIS and Kelvin timeline) and the ramifications for Starfleet if they had got it.
Kelvin? I hear you all through rhetorical device… let me demonstrate.
*Kirk:* Spock, get in that ship and fly around inside the Narada, they can't target you unless you blow through to the outside, and don't get hit, it's full of red matter and we're above Earth.
Target their bridge and strafe any Romulans you detect. I'll get Pike.
*Spock:* Wouldn't it be more logical to use the transporter on this advanced ship that apparently will respond to me, to beam captain Pike onboard?
*Kirk:* ……?
Good point, we can capture both future ships and reverse engineer everything.
*Spock:* Won't that irrevocably damage the timelines… oh right, my Homeworld.
Consider the Temporal Cold War, there could have been an attempt by certain forces to sabatogue(spellcheck has no clue how to spell this word) the Federation by having them reverse engineer the Suiliban Cell ship that Archer had.
Isn't the canon excuse that non-nacelle warp drives are only used by species that don't care about being constantly dosed with high levels of radiation? The Suliban genetic tinkering probably helped protect them.
There was the Spatial Trajector from a 1st season VOY episode. It was more a big transporter than a propulsion system though. It's only a half example since the episode was vague about if a ship side system was needed, but it could only be used near a specific planet as an amplifier because of the plot-ore-crystals in the crust.
Thank you for including the solar sail ship, it seems to be left out of most Star Trek information and that is one of the saddest things. The Sail ships are ingenious especially for the technology involved.
The solar sail was a beautiful ship. Another great vid! Have a great day everyone!
Except that you can't steer, or stop or go back the way you came, you can't tack against the wind with nothing for a keel to push against.
@@popuptoaster lol, no joke. Never said it was practical, or even usable. Just pretty.
@@popuptoaster Well yes and no a solar sail can be used to lower an orbit by tilting it so the thrust vector is retrograde to relative to the orbital path.
But this is not tacking in a normal sense as the sun's gravity is pulling it in.
They also can be used for attitude control as well by varying the angle of multiple sails.
Except the sails were way too small.
As to people complaining about steering a solar sail. It isn't like a sailship on water, the sails are angled to increase or decrease orbital velocity. It's a matter of vectors and having the undesired vectors from various sails canceling out and a matter of the gravity of whatever it's orbiting. Dr. Forward's laser sail interstellar craft had a sail that could have two sections detached, the first detached section would reflect the beam from Earth so the spaceship could decelerate and the second detached section reflected the beam from Earth to accelerate the ship back to Earth. This all worked because Earth, the destination star and the spaceship were all moving at significantly less than the speed of light while the beam traveled at lightspeed so they weren't all in line and not even have the same angle of travel with each other in terms of the beams path.
Solar sails do work, when one of the gyroscopes/momentum wheels on the Keppler spacecraft froze, it used it's solar panels to provide thrust at an angle so that the remaining gyroscopes/wheels could maintain orientation versus that solar thrust thereby allowing further use of the telescope over another range of the sky. Solar sails thrust can be varied over limited ranges of vectors around the ship so it takes a little bit of cleverness and multiple sails to get the direction you want and not all directions are possible at a given time without a circuitous route but steering and slowing down and even returning towards the light source is possible as the return path would not be the same as the light path.
Do a video on FTL Drives from other Sci-fi. Like Foldspace from SDF Macross and the Eatherspase drive from Outlaw Star and Angel Links.
I agree with Barry Bend, do more Macross videos, man I love that franchise but god do I hate Harmony Gold...
Don't get me wrong Robotech was good and could have been great if not for those a***oles at Harmony Gold...
All Harmony Gold does is say oh let do this new Robotech game, movie, series or revival... weeks, months and years of promising a new game, movie, series or revival and taking money from fan in some kick starter, oh no where concealing the project it won't work sorry everyone for rising your hopes.
While behind the scenes they're rubbing their hands together at all the money they conned out their fans for hollow promises they never intended to keep... goddamn criminals.
Sorry for the rant but I hate Harmony Gold and hate those b***ards at Totsunoko for renewing the license with Harmony Gold.
Thry could also do the wave motion engine of Space Battleship Yamato
Should also cover the Infinite Improbability drive from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
There were a few other instances of FTL without Warp. In the TOS episode "That Which Survives" the 1701 was mysteriously thrown 990.7 light years away from a mystery planet which was later discovered to house an automated outpost of a long defunct space Empire.
In TNG season 1 "When The Bough Breaks" there was a society that had a planetary defense system which could throw a Startship for a considerable distance. It was mentioned that the distance could be adjusted depending on the threat.
Then of course there's Q!
You forgot two big ones. The first you might argue was using a power source on the ship, but I'm going to list it anyway.
The Traveler was able to convert imagination and wishes from the crew into motivational power for the ship taking it at speeds not measurable by the equipment on the ship. Yes, he pushed this into the warp core so you might discount it, and one could argue that the crew is on the ship so really the ship was still being propelled by resources within the ship. Still, though the Traveler wasn't even using the interface in the way it was intended and was more just willing things to work the way he wanted vs how anything was designed to work.
The second would be multiple instances of the Q just flinging things from one end of the universe to the other on a whim. Sort of like the Traveler but even more so as the Q can do so without seemingly needing to concentrate on the effort, and they can do so from fully within their own power, without having to have an entire crew direct their wishes towards the Q like they needed to with the Traveler.
Interesting video, the bajorian "solar-sails" ship has always been interesting for me. I have an update on my personal star trelk ship's (USS Georgia) propulsion: as i already said she has both Quantum Slipstream Drive as well as Warp drive, however, to enhance the warp drive (and possibly to fix the issues of slipstream) a small but continuous stream of tachyons is injected in the warp plasma, creating what i call "Tachyon Augmented Warp Drive"; this has the effect, since tachyons travel FTL naturally, that when the plasma reaches the nacelles, the tachyons, in a sense, "carry" the ship with them, thus enhancing the speed of the vessel (not by that great of a margin, as the tachyon stream has to be kept balanced to prevent flodding the warp core, see USS Voyager).
P.S. If you wonder why tachyons can traver FTL naturally is because they have negative mass (photons have no mass, while objects like you for example have positive mass).
Gimme the defiant...go in cloaked, tractor the wounded ship and high warp out. That evening...green women and blue liquor 🤘
Great episode. I just discovered this series recently. By the way, where did you get the starship animated graphics from that are used throughout?
The graviton ellipse took that old Earth mars explorer all the way to the delta quadrant. It was a natural phenomena but if you could create the effect and control it, it seemed to be self sustaining.
Oh my goodness!! I've mentioned the Sikarian Spatial Trajector in the comments of your videos 3 or 4 times now, this was the perfect video in which to feature it and you still missed it.
Thank you so much for pointing out all the flaws from the lightship episode. I was a kid when that episode came out and even then I was confused how Sisko and Jake werent killed or how it broke the FTL barrier without a warp bubble.
I remember in the Star Trek Deep Space 9 season 3 episode 'Explorers' where Sisko built that ancient Bajoran ship he kept getting contacted by Gul Dukat to not undergo this endeavor even though in the end Sisko and Jake arrived the same way the ancient Bajorans did when they found themselves in Cardassian space and saw 3 Cardassian Galor Class Warships with Dukat onboard and told Sisko congratulations on the journey celebrating the 800th anniversary of that journey with the 3 ships setting off fireworks of all things and I'll bet when it was all over Dukat had his ships bring Sisko and Jake safely back to DS9.
I mean, yeah, obviously?
Could you do a video on the in universe science behind inertial dampeners? I can't find a lot online about it, even Memory Alpha doesn't have much: mostly just episodic mentions of dampeners in each series. It seems like a super important piece of a star ship and when they fail its catastrophic to the crew.
If the caretaker array is included, shouldn't Kes and Q transportation of Voyager and Enterprise-D count? They are all outside forces acting on a ship without the ship being involved. And both are shown to physically move through space, not just being snapped to a new location by Q.
Thanks once again, for another wonderful video on FTL without warp core technology Rick.
Don't forget living ships like Tin Man, from STNG.
But I really, really want to.
It's been a long time since I've seen the episode but I thought Sisko's light sail craft entered a conduit or river of space that flowed FTL so the craft itself did not travel FTL, it was the space it entered that did with a bit of spatial turbulence in that space hence the rough ride, significant turbulence would be tidal effects that could've ripped them apart. Of course that would require an asymmetric source of dark energy, an equivalent sink or dispersal field of space as well as something that would constrain this flow of space from the rest of the universe to said dispersal field or sink. It would also mean the dispersal field would be unusually resource or rather material rich which presumably would mean Cardasia space would have a wealth of resources perhaps even being an asymmetric nebula with no apparent supernova source. Of course the very nature of dark energy which expands space means that it would naturally be disperse, never concentrated and certainly not have asymmetric sources or be constrained. if we ever find a white hole other than the Big Bang itself, that would be an observation of concentrated dark energy but still not demonstrate a way of concentrating dark energy or constraining it into a asymmetric source and or stream. I never heard this stream of tachyons mentioned before though technically anything moving FTL could be said to be a tachyon, sounds like it's fan retcon post episode at least it sounds like that to me. Of course I also might've misheard or forgotten whatever in dialog supposition they may have given.
I guess if we find a black hole with a significantly asymmetrically distorted accretion disc than we might be able to find a river of space that flowed differently from the rest of space but such a black hole would only be a sink for such flow as an actual sink isn't necessary just a source and constraints which means finding white holes. However it's hard enough to observe black holes and we have never found a white hole other than the Big Bang.
It's possible that dark energy works like reverse gravity (and account for universal expansion), which would be the equivalent of a reverse black hole. Combing a portable black hole and dark energy in line could produce an actual warp drive. (Alcubierre style... the dark energy pushes the ship from behind while the harnessed black hole pulls in front, creating a warp bubble.)
What about "The Traveler" in TNG? He propelled the ship faster than anything we've ever seen in any Star Trek
He did so using the Enterprise’s warp core by manipulating its warp bubble, so it’s still warp with a drive, just hyper-advanced.
@@brendansmith9674 It has to be more complicated than just a warp bubble though as he broke warp 10, which depending on which Star Trek lore you follow is the maximum before being everywhere at once.
@@Chalky. Agreed it was using the power of 'thought' if I recall
Those were some Q-style shenanigans...I don't think that counts?
@@CharlesUrban The Traveler wasn't a Q, so I'd have to disagree
Tachyon solar sails were also mentioned in season 3 of discovery as an alternate form of warp travel.
thanks for making this ive wanted this for a long time
Very good work in the research of this interesting topic.
Ah, Good old Voyager. We could go home, but nooo, they'll use this station for evil!. "But captain, we have had timed explosives for 4 centuries we could just..." Janeway: "Fire all weapons!"
There's also the Voyager S1E10 'Prime Factors' with the Sikarians Folded-space transporter (memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Folded-space_transporter ) which are used by Eudana to take her and Harry to a planet 40,000 light years away.
“Anyway, it was a beautiful ship and a good story, so let’s gloss over all that”
Well said ❤️
With the new series of Star Trek Discovery this list now needs to be updated.
STTNG "Where No One Has Gone Before"--The Traveler channeled thought to hurl the Enterprise to the very edge of existence. Surely that qualifies, and is much more interesting and believable than the ridiculous spore drive of ST Discovery.
I wouldn't suggest that we include this one, but there was this old star trek book called Vendetta. It involved someone mind linked with a planet killer and through sheer force of will (i guess?) they moved infinitely closer toward warp 10. This in turn had the effect of moving them infinitely slower in time. So i figure that either there's a planet killer stuck in subspace somewhere quite literally going nowhere fast, or is traveling the universe at ludicrous speeds.
How about the Crystalline Entity and Tinman? Don't they count as ftl/no warp drive propulsion?
There was that episode on Voyager named "One Small Step". It probably doesn't count as "warp speed", but that thing was in the delta quadrant much faster than the speed of light would allow.
Love the videos man. Keep them up!
The Voth (Is transwarp still warp?)? Species 8472? Episode Vis À Vis of Voyager? The Xindi vortices? The Borg (again, transwarp)? The quantum slipstream drive on Arturis' vessel?
5:43 Gravity plating and inertial dampers are tightly related technologies. They'd certainly be thrown about as they weren't using a full damper array, but as long as the ship is generating its own gravity, they would be OK.
The Borg transwarp network would probably qualify here as well, since although individual ships had their own transwarp drives, we did see in Voyager that the Borg made use of a large network of "gates" which presumably endowed them with longer range or greater speed.
The Bajoran sailing ship was one of the episodes where the writers really dropped the ball on the science side. As a comparison, a solar sail at Earth's distance from the sun would need to be 800 by 800 meters to generate roughly 5 newtons, the equivalent of pushing on the spacecraft with 1lb of force.
So, even with sails that large, and if we're very generous and assume the craft, including sails is 1/4 the weight of a standard federation runabout, (28 metric tons divided by 4) we get an acceleration of 0.0007143 meters per second squared. It would take 26 hours to accelerate to 150mph.
Also, even if tachyons existed, assuming they would accelerate the ship to FTL speeds is like assuming light itself would propel the craft to lightspeed... and even if all that worked, as you said, the Siskos (and the original bajorans) would have been red spots on the back wall.
The catapult could be extremely useful.
Not only could you use it to minimize travel time all over the alpha/beta quadrant but you could also build an array of space stations that "point" at each other making all of the Milky Way accessible by the federation
*☼ why would you need inertial dampeners for warp travel? the bubble distorts space around the ship: the ship doesnt move.*
Would the Borg Collectives' transwarp corridors be considered as non-ship based FTL drive?
Borg transwarp corridors didn't utilise on board warp drives, did they? Also, what did the Voth use? I know it enables them to travel faster than warp ten.
I remember in one of the trek books. An alien race in it used space fold technology. No FTL drive of any type.
How about when Kes pushed Voyager through the rest of Borg space, saving them 10 years, or when the traveler used his knowledge and Wesley Crusher's mind to super FTL the Enterprise. Or the Q continuum that is basically omnipotent and can take any vessel anywhere at any time. I guess if you're going to disqualify the Vaudwar subspace corridors for the reason you did you'd also disqualify the Bajoran Wormhole and the trans warp conduits of the borg. The crystalline entity of TNG might qualify as it is an organism that can move at warp speed but clearly wouldn't have a warp drive.
Yes, Kes came to mind that she was somehow able to it via psychic powers. I consider the Q Continuum power to be teleportation but I guess a jump drive is just a form of teleportation.
Does being towed by another ship with a tractor beam count?
That only works if it's been tuesday.
What about the Slipstream drive or the Borg trans wrap corridors?
So the quantum slipstream drive wasn't in your list, because it required a warp drive, that had to be modified?
You forgot one method: In TNG "When the Bough Breaks" the Aldeans catapults the Enterprise-D out of the system some light years away with a Repulsor beam -> memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Repulsor_beam
Same happened to the original Enterprises in Orbit of the Kalandan Outpost.
There was a natural phenomenon Voyager encountered that contained an Earth ship from an early Mars mission. This natural artifact when Seven and Chakotay were exploring it had scooped up ships, debris, and artifacts whenever it came out of subspace but popped out all over the galaxy. And don't forget the energy ribbon from Star Trek The Next Generation (the movie) that sucked up Kirk and Guinnen was exposed too.
The Soliton Wave seems like a very early precursor-beta tech for actual Transwarp Corridors that is used by the Borg for Long-range travel.
I vaguely recall something in a Voyager episode about a “slipstream” drive?! Anyway, Voyager was my favorite Star Trek.
JANEWAY WAS A BEAST.
Janeway was a budding war criminal that was absolutely needed to get her ship home in one piece, and was swiftly promoted to Vice Admiral so she couldn't command another starship, and thus possibly genocide the Romulans for spilling her coffee.
Cal Anon, 😂😂😂REAL TALK!
Hey, she wanted to get BY you, if she could. However, if you wanted to make THROUGH you...
Tomato/Tomāto.🤷🏿♂️👠💋💅🏿🦄🌹☄️🎯💥💥💥🤙🏿✌🏿👉🏿
Cal Anon, dude, that is THE most accurate description of Capt. Janeway I’ve ever read!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@magnummax78 The Sisko makes civilizations fear him. Black Kate *erases* them.
Cal Anon, you CANNOT say she never offered them a choice, though.
What I liked most about her was her faith in her crew. She never believed her position was one of weakness, because she understood that her true strength lied with them. Her ability to delegate the right duties to the right crew is where her leadership stood out. Her ability to maintain discipline, even with new additions, in those conditions?!
Yeah. It will make you hard, but do you think she would have been successful (and barely so) if she was one micrometer softer?
I think she was tried harder than any other Captain. By harder challenges than any other Captain faced. Furthermore, I don’t think she started out that way. She grew into that hardness, because that was what was necessary. She never whined.
I’ll always believe that her being underestimated by her enemies (because she was a woman, and I believe, regardless of species, that may have been made to intentionally “matter”, from the writers’ perspective) lead to her being challenged so much. It’s not like she went out of her way looking for trouble. Instead, when trouble that couldn’t be avoided appeared along her chosen path, she rose to meet it. Giving it the merciless force of a true Captain on a mission to save her crew.
If you got erased, you got erased. Janeway played for keeps against other thugs that played for keeps. First Place was the only place. 🇺🇸🐐
The light ship is more complicated. During the final battle of the Dominion War the fleet was at DS9. I don't remember who said it, but it was said that it takes 3 days to get to Cardasian space. Jake and Sicko got there in a day after reaching the Denorius Belt.
On the matter of her lack of an internal dampening system what is solar sail in Deep Space nine. If Commander Sisko and Jake traveled in the device you're talking about the Lack of a inertia dampening system doesn't matter if the craft takes off slowly and build momentum like our solar sails will which we already have and I think have either already launched them or I getting ready to launch little tiny ones anyway. there's no rough inertia. because it's like a sailboat not a drag racer it may take half the trip to get to warp speed and it wouldn't kill them up warp seed itself is not what kills you it's the transition from normal speed to warp speed faster than light.
There was that living ship that was the last of its kind in TNG that a Bajoran guest character ended up becoming its sole crewman. Also some other life forms like that gas cloud that tracked down de-powered Q or those tadpole looking space whales in that TNG episode where a baby one latched onto the Enterprise. Also, remember those giant space jellyfish that eat energy who can replicate anything from the Farpoint episode? Those too. Remember the Crystal Entity that eliminated the colony that Data was found on? I doubt that life form had a warp drive. Star Trek Voyager's / STO's Changelings don't have typical warp drives in their bioships. All of the ST: TOS shuttles don't have warp drives but can travel at warp speed if the episode needs them to. The Runabout was supposed to be the first Star Trek shuttle with warp drive but trekkies knew that warp-capable shuttles were not a new thing. Don't forget that Scotty could theoretically jimmy an impulse drive to temporarily work as a warp drive in theory. Then again, there never was nor their ever will be an engineer like Scotty... not even LaForge, Data, O'Brien, Nog, Wesly Crusher, Seven of Nine, and Torres and they were amazing amazing. You also forgot the warp drive bypassing device that Barklay made when he had that brain boost in TNG. I won't even get into the various wormholes, underspace tunnels, transwarp networks, and other external sources that allow anyone and anything to travel faster than light by using them.
That was not a complete list of FTL ways ships traveled in Star Trek. Other science fiction universes covered other ways that Star Trek can still use. I am purposely ignoring ST:D on this one. I still don't acknowledge that great science fiction show as a real Star Trek show, less Star Trek than the Star Trek parody The Orville.
so two parts here. One you missed the Xindi corridors in the delphic expanse but they don't exist past enterprise.
Two (a little less seriously) when it comes to the bajoran sail ship I've always assumed That it was made from a similar material as a standard warp coil (due to the color of the sail being similar to some depictions of warp coils). I Feel like if this material was being excited by the tachyons in much the same way as warp plasma excites a warp coil that a small subspace bubble could be formed and maintained. It probably only worked because the sails where so much larger then the ship and of course the size of the ship.
There's an article on phys.org about warp drives based on a soliton wave of space time. Trek really has a knack for prediction.
Tachyon standing wave resonance field would be generated to mimic the warp bubble by separation of inertial reference frames.
“You left out ‘ludicrous speed’” - Dark Helmet
How about the subspace distortion method the Cytherians embedded in Lt. Barclay's head in "The Nth Degree"?
The first option you mention just makes me think of Mass Effect's transportation method. Go over to a specific location, and get launched to some other specific location.
mass relay
As soon as Starfleet realized the Soliton wave could be used as a weapon, they should've developed it as a weapon of last resort, especially during the Dominion War.
But then various races who fear a soliton attack will develop scattering field generators and deploy them in any star system they feel needs them. An attacker (Federation or whoever) wanting to use a soliton wave on someone else first has to sabotage their intended target's scattering field emitters, and the arms race carries on from there.
Vulcans apparently colonized a few nearby systems, contacted a few nearby species, and even inadvertently founded the Romulan empire many lightyears away without any true FTL propulsion.
Humans also colonized a few extrasolar planets with sleeper ships, although some of these didn't actually arrive at their destinations until years after humans developed warp propulsion.
Well, there is the Bajoran Wormhole, that doesn't use the ship's power, right?
The light ships might have come in handy during the burn of STD
Gumtu sent the Enterprise flying away at warp speed
And the guys from one planet on one of the first episodes of TNG. Some kind of soliton or displacement wave ?
The Xindi tech
I’m fascinated by the FTL achieved in the Alien franchise, any thoughts on this?
I love the Coaxial Warp. It's nearly instantaneous, and faster than Transwarp. And Transwarp is more sufficient and faster than the Quantum Slipstream.
No mention of the wormhole?
Also, Jake/Ben got to Cardassia fairly quickly, much quicker than you would expect if the distance is so great that it was deemed impossible without FTL speeds. This may indicate that they did undergo some time dialation.
What about the graviton ellipse from Voyager? It traveled around the galaxy. No telling if it could be controlled in any fashion but who knows?
Imagine putting space station in select locations that could manipulate it's path. Then you would need a vessel that could travel in and out of the ellipse. Probably a good idea to clean up the debris it collected.
Regardng the Solar Sailer, I gathered myself that since the ship clearly had artificial gravity that Sisko also installed innertial dampeners. Probably salvaging parts from a federation or bajoran shuttle craft to act as a back and life support system. The only requisit of the ship was that it not be warp drive capable not that it have no tech at all. It would have been smart behavior as then if they became stranded they would be less likely to die in cold space.
What about the mycelial network, or does that not count?
What does the wind vortex count as? Something more akin to slipstream?
I imagined the soliton wave as being kinda like a spacetime whip with the ship on the tip...
An Iconian Gateway - you can in theory fly a ship through there (so no warp-drive needed), then again: With that tech you don't need ships (unless you want to explore the solar system you ended up in)
The Solar sailer might have generated a warp field through the Cherenkov effect as it was dragged into superluminal speeds by the tachyons. This with the fact that as an object approaches C the object gains in mass and suffers from time dilation could explain why the Sisko's trip seemed like a few minutes to them.
That said, that ship would need decon. She would be hot.
how about Q "snapping" the ship across the galaxy to meet the borg?
You forgot about the entities from "The Lights of Zetar" that attacked the Memory Alpha facility and also the Space Vampire cloud from "Obsession".
What about the two scientists in TNG that said that warp travel above warp 6 was hirting subspace? So they developed their own method and then just flew away at the end of the episode?
Soloton Wave makes a handy interstellar WMD. As it can use planetary level of destruction if it collides with a planet.
The Traveler, when he bends time and space. Also Wesley Crusher, doing the same.
I believe the crystal entity in early TNG can travel FTL.
no indication that it doesnt use warp drives though
@@gabriel300010 no indication it does.
@White Rice what do you mean lack of evidence? It travels FTL. It would have had to organically create warp drives which isn't really a thing that can happen since they are man made. So therefore the evidence points towards FTL travel without warp drives.
With the Bajoran sailing ship, tachyons let's say are not capable of slower than light speeds. And when they hit something like the solar sails, the laws of physics prevented them from moving slower than light speed, and the ship from moving faster than light. And therefore it created a natural warp drive where the tachyon then pulled space towards it, and when the space moved past the tachyon the space expanded behind it. And that resulted in the Bajoran ship moving at warp speeds with an accidental natural warp drive.