It works! (sort of): Intel NUC Overclocking with DIY Water Block
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2020
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(Custom Version) - Наука та технологія
There is a way to break the power limit on hm370 motherboard: you can modify the IMON slope and offset to cheat the system, making it thought it draws less power than it actually did. As you can not currently set it directly in bios (Most mainstream laptops could not, except for MSI ones), you may need a special version of GNU Grub which allows you to modify any variable in bios( you may also need to disable secure boot).To find out which variable controls the IMON slope, you need to extract the bios, which could be down by UEFI_tool and some IFR extractor.
Ah yes. Fooling it just like with the rtx 2080 ti for power limit unlocking as well
this is literally the overclocking method used back on old Pentium / early LGA775 era, except that security was non existent compared to nowadays UEFI Bioses
@@amineabdz sssssh! dont tell the OP kid.. He's gonna be mad when he finds out!
Just pencil in some new resistance value.....
smarty pants!
What a beautiful block! I'd pay for it for sure!
Yeah we need those types of waterblock cooling with the Aquacomputer pump.
The infamous: "No keyboard detected" followed by "Press F1 to run setup". Never seen one irl tbh :D
Haha, I've had a similar issue with setting up a "retro gaming" Win-98 PC... It asked me to click next to install mouse XD... So I tried just the keyboard.... couldn't press enter to continue either ._.
Had to work around it by pulling a touch-pad out of the spare Lenovo T400 and wiring it to the mouse PS/2 socket to continue.
@@dedr4m make a tutorial man, thats great
I saw this in a PC store once, no keyboard press F1. Was a teenager at the time & found it hilarious.
My old Dell workstation does that. Really annoying.
I had a mobo do that to me ages ago. It was so annoying.
I just love this type of videos making the best out of the worst, something very satisfying.
Love it, that block is so nice!
Love the copper block! Hope you get a new bios.
5:26 "information about this VRM controller" I did some research into this when gamersnexus published their teardown. According to the datasheet, the 3 rails can be configured as 1/2/3 + 1/2/3 + 1. I believe this is a typo since the recommended solution is 4+2+1. However all the rest of the literature indicates it's possible to configure fewer phases per rail so it is definitely possible to configure the second rail to only output one phase. I have copied some information I researched about how well the VRM performs at various levels:
At 12Vi and 1.8Vo they are very inefficient under 5A, but very good (93%) in the 5-15A range, so I would expect to to be able to deliver 20-60A (36-108 W) dissipating 2.5-7.5W of heat. If the intel CPU runs off 1V, then efficiency drops to about 91% and it will do 20-60A (20-60W) at 1.8W to 5.4W of heat.
note this only takes into account the stated efficiency of the powerstage, which presumably includes gate charge and rds losses from the mosfets and drivers. Actual efficiency will be lower after I^2R losses, capacitor ESR, etc. This was some very quick math giving you an idea of efficiency.
Since the CPU appears to be a 45W TDP part, then these are actually operating towards the bottom end of their range.
How about the top end? Well: the 35A part datasheet goes up to 30A, where they fall to 90% efficiency (for 1.8Vo) or 85% (for 1Vo). Using these numbers for 30A, we get 120A output current (216W into 1.8Vo) at 90% efficiency gets us 21.6W of heat, and 120A output current (120W into 1Vo) at 85% gets us 18W of heat. This is definitely not coolable with the thermal solution, but the VRM is theoretically good for it if you want to put it on LN2 or make a waterblock or something.
Hopes this helps.
Awesome video as always!
Awesome bit of kit!!
i actually have no idea, why i actually like your english videos more than the german.
i like his English videos too,dunno if its cause i don't know any german or not ^^ :P
@@ppsarrakis Nice to see that he has also english hc fans :D
@@ppsarrakis well, i know german really good, im actually even a german guy, so i should tecnicly understand the german videos better...
Maybe cause I don't speak German...
Have you seen Dark in Netflix? It's good Germany series
give this man more subs
congrats on 300k
I'm a english speking guy but I always get your German videos recommended lol. Great content brother quality stuff much love.
That's pretty much the same result as with a NUC8i7BEH. XTU can only get you so far and then you hit a hidden power limit that absolutely will not go any further. I love that custom block. Very nice.
Love it!!
Came for the overclocking, stayed for the kitty!
If I may, when you apply 3200MHz on the memory the command rate is 2T. When you applied the XMP profile did it switched from 1T to 2T or is it the board that memory training that switch it automatically ?
great video
Someone please explain to my why I only get video notifications for Der8auer's German videos and not English videos. I do not understand German and have never watched one of his German videos but UA-cam insists on only showing me his German videos.
Probably because its uploaded first.
UA-cam does not allow "mass uploads". For you to get the english notification I'd have to wait 1-2 hours for the 2nd video to upload
@@der8auer I don't mind the German videos as long as the English Sub-titles make sense :-D Else total confusion :-D
@@der8auer hallo
i'm german and i almost exclusively get suggestions for the english videos
I really like this device, but I want one with dual 10gb lan. Would be an awesome way to add pfsense to a nas box.
Well it does have 24 pcie lanes you can use for that.
@@flandrble A little hard to break out when its plugged into a board. Though maybe in an eatx case combined with an atx board?
it would be nice if you could run multiple nuc's and they could communicate through the pcie to work together on multithreaded tasks.
you definitely can, the pcb would cost around 100 bucks, add some LAN7430 pcie ethernet chips and a KSZ9897 switch, and you can have a compact cluster.
No, intel wants you to buy the much more expensive server components to do this. Someone might be able to hack something together, OR you could install 10/40Gb network cards on the pci 16 slot to allow loads of data to pass between the machines. For all intents and purposes this seems a little silly as the nuc is only occupying a slot --- it's still wholly an independent machine.
@@mhamma6560 broadcom has some direct pcie to pcie bridges which allow DMA, but they are somewhat elusive, and probably much more expensive than a 4$ pcie to ethernet chip.
@@mhamma6560 Just to scratch a pedantic itch… it's "intents and purposes".
I thought you could thru tb3? Mine says that you can daisy chain multiple NUCs....???
Sounds like you need someone to write you a custom BIOS for it
Or edit the current one
Now it's Intel Inside Intel! When I first seen this product I also wondered about a PC-within-a -PC concept. I'm really glad you made this content.. I hope Intel sees this and considers adding official support. A modular PCI-e sub-system like that could be an incredible future platform. PC or console upgrade cycles could be revolutionized and simplified if only a single upgrade module was needed to be swapped out.. I'd love to see an Xbox with a Power Supply/Cooling/RGB frame that accepts a slotted compute module. PSUs, fans, & AIOs are proven technologies that don't require incremental upgrades every 2 years. If the Power Delivery + Cooling is robust enough, then development of new hardware generations could be simplified when the other components aren't being redesigned each time.
The concept of a NUC inside a system is a fun geeky concept that is even harder to refine a purpose for than two systems within one case, or, a NUC in conjunction with a full-tower ATX system.
I admit a lack of imagination here. There is an amazing amount of flexibility here, creatively, yet the only obvious benefit is miniaturization of the second "self-contained(?!)" system. Hah!
Maybe if the concept going on here was not thought of in terms of "Market demand for this" and more in terms of "What this be REALLY GOOD at?"
@@CaleSchmitz I like the idea of one system being used as a security container, kinda lke a honeypot, that is constantly monitoring for threats in the primary system and on the local network. It could even boost the primary system with spare resources when running demanding tasks. Encrypting the secondary system, isolating it from the internet, setting custom read/write folder permissions, and dedicating specific security monitoring/backup tasks to it would mean a virus would have to compromise both systems or else the secondary will recover the primary. Ransomware would be much less effective, which could have implications for commercial deployments if cost-effective compared to a NAS solution. A Raspberry Pi solution would be incredible. A powerful enough system could run VMs to further compartmentalize each main security function to its own secure VM. This way each VM would need to be compromised individually for a successful attack.
You are das KING!!
With the 4000 apus from AMD, I would like to see them copying this form factor.
Well, there's the Asrock A300W, and there already exist a few NUC-like Ryzens (But still with the 3000 laptop series, which was mediocre).
@@elsasslotharingen7507 with the form, pcie jack and all. The first nuc like amd 4000 is coming from Asus.
This formfactor barely offers anything over off the shelf mini-itx mobo+socketed CPU.
@@niter43 Right and a mini ITX offers nothing over and ITX, and ITX offers nothing over and ATX yet they all sell so what's your point?
@@zorbalight3933 Other than size I see no benefit. mini ITX cases are just as small, if not smaller. If you think otherwise do some research -- Velka 3/5/7, K39, DanCase A4-SFX, etc.
This product could really compress the workplace desktop architecture, allowing faster+easier maintenance of employee machines for companies who don't want to go for the distributed computing/terminal approach.
6 systems could fit on an ATX-size board.
I agree, the NUC design has a lot of potential. I hope Intel sees this.
Hey nice block !
What about Throttle stop ?
I use on my laptop i was able to unlock the power limit on my Asus 705GM
have you tried removing the intel thermal framework drivers? In some laptops, removing this driver allows you to go above the manufacturers power limit. I've only tried this with laptops though. I also used throttlestop with this instead of Intel XTU. Give it a try would like to see if there is an any difference.
Also there is a registry edit key that stops windows in reinstalling the thermal framework driver.
I'm fairly certain that it's a hardware limitation. 8 pin EPS is rated at 235W max (and 75W from pcie) power and you also have to count in RAM, chipset power, ssds and VRM switching losses. Current sensing/shunt mod might be required.
You know what? You have some potential
Hi.
i have a Nuc9 board only, can i plug it in Akitio Node ( pcie external box, mostly for GPU) ?
many thanks!
Maybe you'll get more power headroom if you disable iGPU and put the NUC back in that original case?
It’s cool how you make your video twice in 2 different languages
Awesome
An additional feature I'd like to see Intel pursue would be to permit the PCIe-to-PCIe interconnection with the system's motherboard as well as PCIe-to-PCIe interconnection with multiple NUCs in same system. IOW configured as an updated co-processor similar to the discontinued Knights Corner. If this gains some traction then they could explore a newer generation without the video and support for Xeon and/or Scalable CPUs. This concept would permit users with a 1P server/workstation to upgrade to a 2P (or nP) cluster without the added cost of: a) replacing system box, b) adding high-speed networking (Infiniband/OmniPath + switch), as well as reduce node-to-node latency and faster throughput.
Is there a reason the Secondary m.2 slot was used instead of the Primary slot?
Maybe we see some shunt mods on this card? Maybe you do a follow up video on that?
whats the name of the company that made the block ? i cant understand , do they have a website?
Roman, you could try ThrottleStop. I have an old Intel laptop where the motherboard uses the bidirectional-PROCHOT mechanism for throttling the CPU. The only thing that can disable that is ThrottleStop.
Was going to suggest this too. You can use ThrottleStop to force PL1 forever. Install ThrottleStops RwDrv.sys driver and the in the FIVR window -> Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits. I've also found the tool is more reliable than Intel's for overlocking ratios and tweaking other limits. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes to setup. Look forward to the follow up :)
Send the prototype to Linus he will like it!
Edit: I meant he will drop it
Lol
Linus Drop Tips
On my gigabyte aero15s 9980hk i get in the 4200 on cinebench R20 with just an undervolt @ 4.2GHz. i have 5-10 deg headroom for temp (depending on room temp) but if i try increase the multipliers, nothing happens and if i increase the power limit, it thermal throttles and i get a lower score. i can run 4.7HGz all core on real world applications with out issues.
Matx motherboard full tower Case wonder if you can make it all fit nicely so even allow capture card
Quality content from 3:46 to 3:58^^ God your cat is cute af
since its a last gen part woudn't it run better on z390? i might be wrong idk
Why do you adjust the offset voltage instead of the core voltage?
Do you have the contact info for this custom water block ? I would like to do a different version. A vertical one thanks
so would a nuc work in an amd motherboard slot and an intel?
I would be interested if it possible to still communicate with the host system through the PCIe bus (with the tape removed). Is this theoretically possible? Then you could theoretically offload some work to a secondary CPU which would be very cool.
Perhaps you can get further if you remove XTU, and instead switch to throttlestop. There are some extra tweaks available in throttlestop tool. Like installing the rwdrv.sys for example. That is what has worked with other Intel laptops. You may need to make specific settings in Throttlestop. BTW there was a recent Windows 10 Update that can prevent the RwDrv.sys driver from being installed. Also be aware of such things... oh it seems they replaced the WinRing0 and RwDrv.sys drivers for improved Windows 10 2004 compatibility. In the latest version. For further overclocking help you can reach the author of ThrottleStop tool on the notbookreview forums. He has a number of posts over there.
TheViciousGames also has a detailed Throttlestop Guide. The types of things you need to be doing in ThrottleStop are things like "Set Speed Shift - EPP to 0", etc.
What is that pink thermal paste?
Hi can i get the contact for the one that did the cpu block?
Hmm.. if it behaves like a laptop, you should be able to unlock the "ghost" power limits with ThrottleStop. I think there's an updated version on Guru3D, Techpowerup or some other techie site. Give it a go, Roman!
Are you still working on 10900k direct die?
Man guckt immer so englische Videos... Bis auf der 8auer... Man hat von ihm nur alte Videos gesehen... Jetzt er auf einmal auch auf Englisch... Ein wunderschönes deutsches Englisch 😂😂
I love your cat
Which Nuc is that, specifically? I'm about to throw one in my rig just because 🤔
And how powerful is the included power brick? I mean, if it is able to only deliver 110 watts or something like that, allowing you to set higher than 105 doesn't make much sense for the intended use case as a stand alone system.
Sure, if they were to release a box that was intended for use inside a desktop it could make sense to allow you to set it higher...
Same thing like the Hades canyon is locked on the BIOS and please who did the water cooler block a I want one for my Hades canyon can you give me the info please. I want the same style water block, you know good for you we need to start making waterblock cooling for small from factor for Intel NUC and the new ones from AMD embedded. Good job
I was waiting for you to show an actual use case for this. You've powered it through the PCIe slot, but now what ? Can you use it as a capture system for a streaming pc ? It would make for an interesting video. Overwise I don't really see the point with powering it with a motherboard PCIe slot 😕
using as a physical vm or something, you also could use an usb capture card.
but I think the best would be itx mobo+ nuc baseboard+pcie capture card.
you could also use an m.2 to pcie adapter.
With ThrottleStop from techpowerup you could change those limits easily since 2010
Is it possible to do same with AMD, an ATX & an ITX..?
Did you mess up the ssd screw? 😁
It's like GPU, but with CPU!
@der8auer, can it run without CPU\RAM on main motherboard?
About power limit - what are the mosfets, can they reliably sustain 40A/stage to be able to raise the power limit? With around 1.1V and 90% efficiency, getting 140W - that's 140A. Also attach the scope to check how stable the voltage is at high load.
they're NCP302045 with a 45A sustained power(75A peak).
With 12Vin, 1V out, they're rated up to 35W continuous power. That's at 88% efficiency (manageable heat with only 4 DrMOS parts, probably), and 500KHz IIRC.
They're not the problem. I generally wish NUCs had better VRMs so I could OC the snot out of them, but in this case it should not be a problem.
mosfet are just fine it is probably a hard limit on power coded in bios even though xtu can increase the value you can't go above a certain hardware value hardcoded in bios. You have to do shunt modification to overcome the limit like on many gpu or laptops.
Can you do shunt mod similar to GPU for more voltage?
its not the voltage, but the power limit. even if you increase the voltage it will throttle the clocks to hit under 105w power
shunt mod?
Did I miss final temperatures?
Intel just like back when Pentium4 was a complete failure their Core CPUs on the mobile side I believe rescued them from that mess .... with the NUC I feel that intel has no engineers with any kind of technical ability or skill to push the innovation into reality.
I personally own 2 NUC8... one i5 and one i7 .... the i7 is quieter than the i5 . I use the i5 remotely to run some VMs ( its an OpenSuSE LEAP setup with Libvirtd / KVM running on it ) while the i7 is my "main" workstation. Everything is networked over Wifi ... no cables anywhere ... there is a Wifi Hotspot ... and I use my phone as another hotspot ... got all the NICs bonded ... so whenever or wherever or whatever connection I connect to ... it always is connected on the local LAN and has the appropriate hotspot already configured :-D
I can imagine getting more NUCs and hiding them away in closets and having either Wifi USB or Bluetooth points or later date getting some kind of Mesh or Powerline ( Power-over-LAN ) stuff and just plug in multiple "smart"-home devices and do whatever home/office/fun/entertainment/media projects I want to on anything or anywhere or anywhen I want....
There is so much potential for the NUC ... especially when you think about the "home-lab" I've always wanted to do ! With this overclocking and water-cooling ... I DON'T have to buy a laptop with a crappy keyboard/trackpad/poor-cooling /spinning-rust-storage. .... I can have a central storage-media hub with a NAS in some closet ... I can have a Virtualization hub elsewhere ... I can plugin the TV for Netflix / Amazon-Prime .... all these NUCs have Bluetooth+Wifi ... I haven't tried but I wonder if DisplayLink or Miracast might work ... there is no much more I can play around with this NUC things :-D
Like your idea though I'd personally sprinkle lots of Pi's into the mix, maybe even most nodes with the Pi4's performance (I like the Pi foundations ethos so when either is suitable I'd go Pi).
Miracast is in my experience hard to get working right - not everything that claims support actually does it right. No reason the wifi on a NUC can't do it though even the earliest NUC's are of an age when every wifi chipset had the required functionality as far as I can see.
KItty!!!
Those numbers still aren't shabby, similar Cinebench as my 3700x with XFR Optimizations (provided by Buildzoid) and everything else left stock. For such a small package, not bad.
I agree :)
@@der8auer granted, my 3700x does have a slightly higher single core score, a round 507
that is indeed very good I have around same values (a bit less in multi but a bit higher in single) with my 8700k 6C12T@5.1GHz but 200W power.
They went with 9980HK so they could use "5GHZ" in their marketing.
*Girl on thumbnail*
Me: I click
*No girl in video*
Me: Clickbait
😹
Now squeeze that into that small case.
Your thumbnails have captured two of my primary interests. Computer stuff and
nice i already watched the german video
What a beautiful thumbnail. I watched this entire video to see her. The block is pretty to but I need some of her.
Yeah no idea why you're hitting a wall. The PCIe slot plus EPS cable should be tons of power available. The DrMOS in the VRM are rated to 140A continuous output (total) at the given voltages, and the power limits for the CPU were raised in XTU :(
Must be some other artificial limit just for the NUC. I wish Intel would consider enthusiasts doing custom cooling for these products. Ideally, that'd mean beefier VRMs (I may want to push 200A or more with watercooling), and proper OC support in bios, without random invisible limits. I could have so much fun.
When you plug this into the host without the tape does a device show up in device manager?
max out all turbo settings, IccMax, max that out, once you max everything out on the limits, you can see the true hard limit of the motherboard. For example, my laptop can't go past 90W not even for a short burst, that's the maximum wattage I can pull on the CPU, its a hard 90W limit on my Precision 7540 laptop (i7-9750H), but yeah, 105W might be the hard limit, and it might have to do with the 4 phase VRMs to CPU, idk.
time for a shunt mod? :)
Imagine if intel attached a descrete gpu to it that is ran by the main system that had a mirrored output as a video capture device on the nuc.
WAIT YOU CAN CONNECT THE NUC TO AN ACTUAL COMPUTER?!?! I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST A SPECIAL FORM OF PCIE WOAH
Fun idea, use EVGA ePower on it, make it zombie card
How cheap can you make a nuc system that runs fortnite lowest settings 1080? If it's with a graphics card
1:50 wall behind...
Looks cyber punky
Cat says video ends meow
It's a laptop with a PCIe connector for power and dedicated GPU. You don't even need the PCIe connector power I bet, as in it's regular case, it just needs power on a few pins. Don't have to plug it into motherboard since there is no communication between the two systems over PCIe possible, at the moment. The prices last time I saw were high, quite high, so not worth buying. Yep just checked, for the price of it I can build a whole PC...
THE CHIPSET IS Mobile Intel® CM246 Chipset.
Which has OC code removed.
Hahaha i was just thinking of doing the water cooling mod with my 10thgen i7.
Anyone else think Intel just got de8auer to do R&D for them?
Water block needs to have more volume above the processor.
So the thumbnail has a pretty girl on it and the video has him stroking a cat. Well played sir. Thumbs up + 1
Random cat petting is pure gold
Cool concept, some asian company will make some day.
Convince Intel (and hint to AMD to create something similar) to create a driver for this.
Imagine, having multiple 10900k daughterboard systems on a 10900k system, and having Windows support it as a single computer. The heat would be magnificent, but the computing power would equally be magnificent.
What if this was running on PCIe4 (I'm looking at you, AMD)?! You can use a 5ghz+ daughterboard just for games and the main system for everyday tasks.
Imagine never having to choose between gaming and computing performance ever again?
every good tech youtube should have a cat to just walk in there way.
Der8auer please make a Intel NUC Kit please, please, please!
all talk you kill it with ln2