Hey James, great content! I've obviously checked out a few other content creators about Big 4 exits and a few of them also highlighted that sometimes you have to/should do a stint in banking before moving over into investment banking. Would you mind elaborating on why that may or may not be relevant, and if it should be, then what parts would be most interesting? Thanks in advance!
The last 1 minute of this video was incredible. A simplified justification for why the sacrifice of low wages and high hours is worth it. The concept of the hourly wage or yearly salary is an illusion. We all crave more fulfilling opportunities. That is exactly what you earned my friend 👍🏾
To me it would seem better if the Big 4 changed the work pattern from 9-5 with an astronomical amount of overtime to shift work. All staff are put onto a rota and you work a different shift say every 2 weeks. Have an early, rush hour, middle, late and night shift. Have a four day week, 9 hours per day, working every 1 out of 3 weekends. Staff have the option to put in for paid overtime if they wish. You could have the early as 6am to 3pm, rush hour as 9am to 6pm, middle as 12pm to 9pm, late as 3pm to 12am and the night as 10pm to 7am. The office would be open 24/7 for the clients and staff would have long breaks between each shift to recover/socialise but could earn extra with optional overtime.
Makes a lot of sense, maybe mid-tiers that don't expect you to work past 5:30-6 is a fair middle ground. Especially with revision too, the idea of 47.5 base weeks seems like a complete non-starter. Have you read much of Cal Newport's stuff like 'So good they can't ignore you'? Personally found the book like an unnecessarily long blog article, the gist is that you can find satisfaction in a job through developing expertise vs. it necessarily being your 'passion'. I think it's quite satisfying gradually getting to grips with accounting and developing an intuitive understanding of how things should be treated, but I can see why you'd then want to apply that to business problems or more judgmental work rather than merely continuing to 'check' treatment. It's also probably quite a good idea developing an unambiguously useful skill that is perennially in demand early in your career. Your videos definitely impacted my thinking re: aiming for big 4 vs. other firms, nice one.
Hey James! Been watching you since the summer, love your content! I joined PWC audit London office last month(non FS) and just found out I passed my AC and BTF exams this morning 😊 the time is absolutely insane even tho I haven’t start my first engagement yet… but I do enjoy it, very satisfied with the training and development side of the firm. Good luck with your further career!
@@PhilosophyLines they haven’t given official overtimes yet, as I haven’t started my engagement, but to be on top of my game with all the study, revision, training and compliance, I probably don’t become free/ comfortable enough to walk away from my laptop until 9/10pm. Sooo myself is definitely a part of it too 🤣
I was in your boat, only 25 years ahead of you. It sounds like nothing fundamental has changed. I never looked back once I got into industry but the big 4 offered a good foundation. I stayed 3 years post qualification, if I had my time again I'd have left 2 years earlier.
Brilliant video, really glad you're back! I'm joining a B4 school leaver audit programme in six days and really looking forward to it. While your points about Audit being a grind, and the level of challenge and value-add being debatable, I do still believe I'll be building the perfect foundation to pursue a career within business and finance and my worries are somewhat tempered by the fact that in near all professions worth pursuing, you've got to put the graft in early on in order to progress into more challenging and senior positions (whether this is in accountancy, law, banking, consulting etc). In five years I'll have a very strong pool of exit opportunities available to me which I can take full advantage of, and living at home in the North East for the first couple years of my apprenticeship actually makes that take-home pay very attractive. During my training, I'll be building up both hard and soft skills, an expansive network and a portfolio of investments to further open up my options in the future. And I have to thank you, James -- your UA-cam channel was an invaluable resource during my application process and I couldn't have done it without you. Whether I stay with my firm beyond qualification or make the leap into CF or consulting, the future's looking bright!
Hi James! I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to go through all of this with us - I’m just about 2 years working at a Big 4 and itching to leave. I haven’t qualified yet (only passed 1 Professional ACA) but lately my well-being has been incredibly low. I don’t enjoy this area of work, and I don’t have the motivation to qualify if I do not want to be an accountant going forward. From an employability perspective, would you say it’s a huge red flag if I start job-hunting now? I’m hoping to convert to a risk management position or an entry-level research analyst. Something which allows me to think and analyse future performance. Thank you!
Is it the working hours or the nature of work putting you off? If you don't like the hours then once you qualify you can easily get an actuarial job working less than 35 hrs for £50k+ pay, and it's really secure from AI/GPT, so it might be worth toughing it out. But if you don't like accounting in general...accounting is really a job for INTJ safe & boring male stereotype so if you say you want to do more creative and generative things then you can safety cut the ties with ACA - only after you have a job offer. It's not a red flag because you are part-qualified and you just have to be honest at interviews why you are motivated to make this career swap, which is what I did when I applied to Big 4!
Another thing to add is grass is always greener on the other hill. You need genuine enthusiasm and property research the jobs, and honestly they need to match your MBTI. You can find the prospect of a job aspiring but if they are not a good match with your MBTI then you won't do enjoy it and as a result you don't do well and start to hate it.
Rate your content highly, honest and helpful. I think big 4 is simply a stepping stone for most people into more intellectually and financially rewarding career paths. There great for people finishing uni and needing a foot in the door into the financial services industry and Id still recommend them but would make people aware of reality of audit.
Hey. Thanks for your content. Helped me greatly in choosing between the Big 4 and Mid-tier Firms. Long story short I chose Mid-Tier, starting at BDO on Monday. Hoping to get more help from this channel on future career decisions
Thanks for the comment Raymond - appreciate it! Sounds like a great choice - well done on getting the job mate and let me know if you have any questions!
What Should I Do? ACCA or CAs generally go for the Audit firms or Big 4 however it's on 2nd in my list, I am having difficulty to see the secure side if I want to pursue in Industrial Value chain or to be part of startup or Business group (for providing my 100%) but having limited influence or examples around.
Lol the “worked and cared less” is so true. I started Big Four late so now at 28 as an A2 I don’t care that much due to my overall years of work experience and that a lot of the details don’t make a difference in the grand scheme of things. I’ve worked with some try hard S1’s who are only 23/24 and it’s their first job. All that ends up happening is they quit due to all the extra effort they put in. I saw one S1 timesheet and it looked like a novel with all the shit she was writing
Yeah, realising it’s just a job is important - no point burning yourself out! Like you say, starting late, doesn’t make a difference in the grand scheme of things. I started at 25 so not that different! People equate busy with being productive/successful. Unfortunately, some people never learn!
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:27 *💰 Feeling underpaid, unequal distribution of rewards, and better opportunities elsewhere were significant reasons for leaving the Big Four.* 03:56 *📊 Working as an auditor often felt unfulfilling and lacking purpose due to the perceived lack of value in the work compared to other roles.* 05:37 *⏰ The combination of high workload, long hours, and little personal time led to sacrificing personal interests and well-being, prompting the desire for a better work-life balance.* 07:01 *🏢 Concerns about poor work-life balance, unfulfilling work, and low salary were not adequately addressed by senior leadership, leading to a desire to pursue a different career path.* Made with HARPA AI
I cannot agree with this video more. I never felt like the audit work I was doing was particularly important or valued. As someone who left PwC and audit BEFORE qualifying, I can safely say that it is one of the best decisions I have ever made. I will always appreciate the work you put in James. However you may feel about your time at PwC, know that there is one ex-auditor out there who would have felt a thousand times worse if not for your support #livingthedream.
agree with it.. its a good place to join ONLY if "you are starting your career..." not otherwise... currently working as senior consultant but will be leaving soon. and I am not the only one at that level that is leaving within 1 year /6 months after joining the firm.
What do you think about leaving only after a year before getting cpa? (South east asia country) The pay is mediocre. Work is boring and meaningless for me. Hours are too long Me and my friend felt as if we learnt nothing in financial service department
I am 31 this year… finally got an offer from both B 4 and mid tier….. now I am kinda lost… should I choose the big 4 or mid tier? Should I go to the big 4 for salary or my gut feeling for the mid tier 😅
Interesting video. I'm joining a Big 4 audit division in Sept 2023 after I graduate and I am a bit worried about the workload and the fairly mediocre salary tbh (when compared to other city jobs). Would it be better to leave into consulting, IB, private equity corp finance etc after you qualify or stick it out and wait to become a partner?
They are different jobs in nature. Audit is for INTJ, Consulting is really only good for extroverts (and prone to layoffs in 2023/4), IB... if you hate the workload in Audit then you won't survive IB 80hr weeks. I think it's too early to think about these as a new joiner.
Hi James. I have been following your videos for quite some time now, and they are very insightful. I have joined Deloitte USI as a fresh undergrad this September. I would love it if you share your views on USI. TIA
Hey, impressed with the quality of the video! I think you have definitely made the right decision in leaving pwc, I'm sure you're much happier now. I'm seriously considering joining a big 4 Audit graduate scheme in London but the salary is concerning me. How did you find living in London while earning £28k as a trainee? Was it a real struggle? Would love to hear your thoughts, keep up the good work 👍
Thanks mate - appreciate it! You actually earn a bit more than £28k at the moment, and your salary rises quickly up to £50k by year three - it is definitely manageable!
I can understand your concern with the cost-of-living crisis but we're talking £1900+/month take-home, that's beyond manageable, it would sound comical to even ask that to a lot of people. Of course you should expect to share a house but that's a given, you're not going to be solo in a luxury penthouse just as you're starting your career.
Hi James, love the videos they have been a big help. I've recently signed my contract to join Deloitte UK in January 2023 as a project support associate in the audit division. As i understand it I will be training to become a project manager which is a career I have always fancied regardless. Do you have much experience with this area of the company, I have seen lots of information on auditors and consultants but not on project managers and I'm starting to feel imposter syndrome fearing this is not a respected role within the company. Any information would be appreciated!
Hey currently have an offer from BDO, and quite like the company culture in comparison to the BIG 4, do you reckon I would have similar exit opportunities to the Big 4 as I would like to get into M&A / Deals upon qualification.
BIG 4 Exit Opportunities Cheat Sheet 👉 bit.ly/3lgQmtW
Hey James, great content! I've obviously checked out a few other content creators about Big 4 exits and a few of them also highlighted that sometimes you have to/should do a stint in banking before moving over into investment banking. Would you mind elaborating on why that may or may not be relevant, and if it should be, then what parts would be most interesting?
Thanks in advance!
You know you're an adult when you love this kinda content lol
I just graduated high school and is binge-watching these lmaoo. I hope that isn't a bad thing.
The last 1 minute of this video was incredible. A simplified justification for why the sacrifice of low wages and high hours is worth it. The concept of the hourly wage or yearly salary is an illusion. We all crave more fulfilling opportunities. That is exactly what you earned my friend 👍🏾
To me it would seem better if the Big 4 changed the work pattern from 9-5 with an astronomical amount of overtime to shift work. All staff are put onto a rota and you work a different shift say every 2 weeks. Have an early, rush hour, middle, late and night shift. Have a four day week, 9 hours per day, working every 1 out of 3 weekends. Staff have the option to put in for paid overtime if they wish. You could have the early as 6am to 3pm, rush hour as 9am to 6pm, middle as 12pm to 9pm, late as 3pm to 12am and the night as 10pm to 7am. The office would be open 24/7 for the clients and staff would have long breaks between each shift to recover/socialise but could earn extra with optional overtime.
Makes a lot of sense, maybe mid-tiers that don't expect you to work past 5:30-6 is a fair middle ground. Especially with revision too, the idea of 47.5 base weeks seems like a complete non-starter. Have you read much of Cal Newport's stuff like 'So good they can't ignore you'? Personally found the book like an unnecessarily long blog article, the gist is that you can find satisfaction in a job through developing expertise vs. it necessarily being your 'passion'.
I think it's quite satisfying gradually getting to grips with accounting and developing an intuitive understanding of how things should be treated, but I can see why you'd then want to apply that to business problems or more judgmental work rather than merely continuing to 'check' treatment.
It's also probably quite a good idea developing an unambiguously useful skill that is perennially in demand early in your career. Your videos definitely impacted my thinking re: aiming for big 4 vs. other firms, nice one.
Hey James! Been watching you since the summer, love your content! I joined PWC audit London office last month(non FS) and just found out I passed my AC and BTF exams this morning 😊 the time is absolutely insane even tho I haven’t start my first engagement yet… but I do enjoy it, very satisfied with the training and development side of the firm. Good luck with your further career!
What kind of hours do they have you on Yimo?
@@PhilosophyLines they haven’t given official overtimes yet, as I haven’t started my engagement, but to be on top of my game with all the study, revision, training and compliance, I probably don’t become free/ comfortable enough to walk away from my laptop until 9/10pm. Sooo myself is definitely a part of it too 🤣
from what I've seen the best time to leave is the later of either getting qualified or being a senior for a year
100% - I might go a video on this actually 🤔
@@mtbercolts95 been there done that, easy
I was in your boat, only 25 years ahead of you. It sounds like nothing fundamental has changed. I never looked back once I got into industry but the big 4 offered a good foundation. I stayed 3 years post qualification, if I had my time again I'd have left 2 years earlier.
The big problem is that audit is a statutory requirement and so clients (and auditors) often don't take the job very seriously.
100%
Brilliant video, really glad you're back! I'm joining a B4 school leaver audit programme in six days and really looking forward to it. While your points about Audit being a grind, and the level of challenge and value-add being debatable, I do still believe I'll be building the perfect foundation to pursue a career within business and finance and my worries are somewhat tempered by the fact that in near all professions worth pursuing, you've got to put the graft in early on in order to progress into more challenging and senior positions (whether this is in accountancy, law, banking, consulting etc). In five years I'll have a very strong pool of exit opportunities available to me which I can take full advantage of, and living at home in the North East for the first couple years of my apprenticeship actually makes that take-home pay very attractive. During my training, I'll be building up both hard and soft skills, an expansive network and a portfolio of investments to further open up my options in the future. And I have to thank you, James -- your UA-cam channel was an invaluable resource during my application process and I couldn't have done it without you. Whether I stay with my firm beyond qualification or make the leap into CF or consulting, the future's looking bright!
Great video! It’s always important to be a free agent so that you aren’t easily dogmatic.
Hi James! I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to go through all of this with us - I’m just about 2 years working at a Big 4 and itching to leave. I haven’t qualified yet (only passed 1 Professional ACA) but lately my well-being has been incredibly low. I don’t enjoy this area of work, and I don’t have the motivation to qualify if I do not want to be an accountant going forward. From an employability perspective, would you say it’s a huge red flag if I start job-hunting now? I’m hoping to convert to a risk management position or an entry-level research analyst. Something which allows me to think and analyse future performance. Thank you!
Is it the working hours or the nature of work putting you off? If you don't like the hours then once you qualify you can easily get an actuarial job working less than 35 hrs for £50k+ pay, and it's really secure from AI/GPT, so it might be worth toughing it out. But if you don't like accounting in general...accounting is really a job for INTJ safe & boring male stereotype so if you say you want to do more creative and generative things then you can safety cut the ties with ACA - only after you have a job offer. It's not a red flag because you are part-qualified and you just have to be honest at interviews why you are motivated to make this career swap, which is what I did when I applied to Big 4!
Another thing to add is grass is always greener on the other hill. You need genuine enthusiasm and property research the jobs, and honestly they need to match your MBTI. You can find the prospect of a job aspiring but if they are not a good match with your MBTI then you won't do enjoy it and as a result you don't do well and start to hate it.
Rate your content highly, honest and helpful. I think big 4 is simply a stepping stone for most people into more intellectually and financially rewarding career paths. There great for people finishing uni and needing a foot in the door into the financial services industry and Id still recommend them but would make people aware of reality of audit.
Thanks Callum - appreciate it! It's 100% a stepping stone for bigger opportunities - I don't regret it!
Hey. Thanks for your content. Helped me greatly in choosing between the Big 4 and Mid-tier Firms. Long story short I chose Mid-Tier, starting at BDO on Monday. Hoping to get more help from this channel on future career decisions
Thanks for the comment Raymond - appreciate it! Sounds like a great choice - well done on getting the job mate and let me know if you have any questions!
@@JamesAlberts sure I will.
Very informative. I just started as an auditor at Deloitte in Las Vegas!
And how much is your work experience and how much are you getting paid
@@Hostel935 Zero experience but I have a bachelor's and masters in accounting. I'm also taking the CPA exams right now. Starting pay for me is $64k.
Congratulations on the job! Let me know if you need any advice!
Sounds like you’ve taken a wise route!
@@JamesAlberts Sir what would you suggest.. USA or UK ? For career in big 4🙇
Being exhausted all the time is true. It’s a big problem.
What Should I Do?
ACCA or CAs generally go for the Audit firms or Big 4 however it's on 2nd in my list, I am having difficulty to see the secure side if I want to pursue in Industrial Value chain or to be part of startup or Business group (for providing my 100%) but having limited influence or examples around.
I think the BIG 4 provides a solid start to any career - good experience, strong brand on the CV, and a good set of connections
Lol the “worked and cared less” is so true.
I started Big Four late so now at 28 as an A2 I don’t care that much due to my overall years of work experience and that a lot of the details don’t make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
I’ve worked with some try hard S1’s who are only 23/24 and it’s their first job. All that ends up happening is they quit due to all the extra effort they put in. I saw one S1 timesheet and it looked like a novel with all the shit she was writing
Yeah, realising it’s just a job is important - no point burning yourself out!
Like you say, starting late, doesn’t make a difference in the grand scheme of things. I started at 25 so not that different!
People equate busy with being productive/successful. Unfortunately, some people never learn!
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:27 *💰 Feeling underpaid, unequal distribution of rewards, and better opportunities elsewhere were significant reasons for leaving the Big Four.*
03:56 *📊 Working as an auditor often felt unfulfilling and lacking purpose due to the perceived lack of value in the work compared to other roles.*
05:37 *⏰ The combination of high workload, long hours, and little personal time led to sacrificing personal interests and well-being, prompting the desire for a better work-life balance.*
07:01 *🏢 Concerns about poor work-life balance, unfulfilling work, and low salary were not adequately addressed by senior leadership, leading to a desire to pursue a different career path.*
Made with HARPA AI
What to do if you leave big 4
Thank you for your honesty! Great timing too :)
Thanks, Ruth. Glad you enjoyed it and hopefully it helped you.
I cannot agree with this video more. I never felt like the audit work I was doing was particularly important or valued. As someone who left PwC and audit BEFORE qualifying, I can safely say that it is one of the best decisions I have ever made. I will always appreciate the work you put in James. However you may feel about your time at PwC, know that there is one ex-auditor out there who would have felt a thousand times worse if not for your support #livingthedream.
Barno! You're far too kind, this might be my favourite UA-cam comment ever - hope you're keeping well. #livingthedream
agree with it.. its a good place to join ONLY if "you are starting your career..." not otherwise... currently working as senior consultant but will be leaving soon. and I am not the only one at that level that is leaving within 1 year /6 months after joining the firm.
What do you think about leaving only after a year before getting cpa? (South east asia country)
The pay is mediocre.
Work is boring and meaningless for me. Hours are too long
Me and my friend felt as if we learnt nothing in financial service department
If you’re not enjoying it and you have a better opportunity else where (that sets you up for both the short term and long term) - leave!
Can you make a video on how to succeed as a Big Four senior? Being promoted in September and would be cool to hear your tips
Sure - I’ll add it to the list!
@@JamesAlberts Prefect looking forward to it!
Not enough actualization at the Big 4 for you. It is interesting to listen to you.
staring in american big 4 at working 47 hours per week. that sounds like a dream.
Smart advice and very well presented.
I am 31 this year… finally got an offer from both B 4 and mid tier….. now I am kinda lost… should I choose the big 4 or mid tier? Should I go to the big 4 for salary or my gut feeling for the mid tier 😅
So what did you decide?
@@cakep2003 join mid tier
Interesting video. I'm joining a Big 4 audit division in Sept 2023 after I graduate and I am a bit worried about the workload and the fairly mediocre salary tbh (when compared to other city jobs). Would it be better to leave into consulting, IB, private equity corp finance etc after you qualify or stick it out and wait to become a partner?
Thanks! My advice is always to leave after you qualify - improved work life balance and better salary!
They are different jobs in nature. Audit is for INTJ, Consulting is really only good for extroverts (and prone to layoffs in 2023/4), IB... if you hate the workload in Audit then you won't survive IB 80hr weeks. I think it's too early to think about these as a new joiner.
I’m a senior at EY and make 125k. Y’all get shafted. When I hit manager I’ll be at like 160-180
And how much is your work experience 🙂
Where are you based?
@@JamesAlberts Oklahoma city, central US
@@JamesAlberts Central United States, Oklahoma. But im a Cybersecurity consultant
@@MrCantthinkofaname10 This guy works in the UK where the wages are slightly lower. That is why. In the uk you work less hours though
sir make a video how to break investment banking , consulting and corprate finance .
Hi James! Looking for some advice or help from you about the process of interview lol. And really appreciate your videos about all the experiences ：D
Hi James. I have been following your videos for quite some time now, and they are very insightful.
I have joined Deloitte USI as a fresh undergrad this September. I would love it if you share your views on USI. TIA
What do you make of m&a at big 4? Do you know anyone that has done that and whats their experience there?
Hi James, would you know any exit opportunities for ACA trained Internal Auditors? Thanks!
100% - check out my video on exit opportunities, the same opportunities are open to you if you position yourself well!
@@JamesAlberts Thank you James!
Hey, impressed with the quality of the video! I think you have definitely made the right decision in leaving pwc, I'm sure you're much happier now.
I'm seriously considering joining a big 4 Audit graduate scheme in London but the salary is concerning me. How did you find living in London while earning £28k as a trainee? Was it a real struggle? Would love to hear your thoughts, keep up the good work 👍
Thanks mate - appreciate it! You actually earn a bit more than £28k at the moment, and your salary rises quickly up to £50k by year three - it is definitely manageable!
I don't think any are as low as 28, should be 30-33. The answer is to share a house with others to get rent down, and shop at lidl
I can understand your concern with the cost-of-living crisis but we're talking £1900+/month take-home, that's beyond manageable, it would sound comical to even ask that to a lot of people. Of course you should expect to share a house but that's a given, you're not going to be solo in a luxury penthouse just as you're starting your career.
Where did you go post big 4 audit?
Hi James, love the videos they have been a big help.
I've recently signed my contract to join Deloitte UK in January 2023 as a project support associate in the audit division. As i understand it I will be training to become a project manager which is a career I have always fancied regardless. Do you have much experience with this area of the company, I have seen lots of information on auditors and consultants but not on project managers and I'm starting to feel imposter syndrome fearing this is not a respected role within the company.
Any information would be appreciated!
Hey currently have an offer from BDO, and quite like the company culture in comparison to the BIG 4, do you reckon I would have similar exit opportunities to the Big 4 as I would like to get into M&A / Deals upon qualification.
What did you end up doing?
Loved your vedios 💜
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it!
I worked at big 4 I worked 75 hours a week and I had so much admin I had to work over to just to work 40 billables
Mate I can't even get in
Need any help?
@@JamesAlberts yes, if you could. I will really appreciate it
@@JamesAlberts yes yes yes, we do, I do.
Yes
No
i begin my first day tomorrow , lol
How did it go?
you joined a big 4 and now only make 100k? for all those long hours. where do you live?
I left the BIG 4 three years ago.