Yes, but realistically CATL will do most of their business directly outside of the auto business. The whole thing about Tesla taking on the world as an energy provider is 9000% bulls**t - they are literally just packaging and reselling CATL and Panasonic product.
@@mnomadvfx Megapack 3 will allow direct HVDC connection, eliminating substations. Autobidder makes millions in arbitrage for the owner. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Anyway you slice this information - we are moving forward was this tech and that’s a good thing. Faster we get off reliance of fossil energy the better. 🎉🎉🎉😊
Don't let dirty geopolitics and fossil fuel industry get in the way of what humanity truly needs. Well done CATL and all the other innovative Chinese companies.
"Dirty geopolitics" you've really drank the Chinese kool aid - it'd be a disaster for Western economies and jobs if we entirely offshored automotive and energy storage production to China, it'll devastate industrial communities that are already suffering (e.g. Wales, NE England, Mid-West America, Germany... the list goes on) - hence some pushback is warranted.
@@gustavoramirezdiaz1347 No one outside of China is getting anything close to the specs on CATL and BYD's LFP batteries. Even some Teslas in the US have those batteries so you can't say it's all fake news.
Had the pleasure of visiting the CATL booth at EES Europe too and if these performance levels are indeed true then it's mind blowing. It just shows how far ahead the Chinese battery giants are compared to the ROW!
Well, it helps that they've had control of the patents for LFPs! When the West was asleep at the wheel, China was actually breaking ground. Sadly, alot of the money in the West is going into solid state and other related technologies that will only get more expensive. Which means China will probably end up making all of the important breakthroughs with sodium ion as well. Because they understand that the problem isn't making denser batteries in general, its maker cheaper batteries perform better,
@@patreekotime4578 true, too much focus on solid state that realistically will only be reserved for luxury high end vehicles eventually whilst China dominate the mass market
@@davidbeeston8833 Solid state *may* have a place in aviation, but I doubt it in the long term. Fire safety is an even bigger issue in airplanes than in cars. I suspect there will have to be a whole new branch of batteries to handle that use case. But for motor vehicles, LFP and sodium ion look like the actual future. The investment bro types love solid state because it requires more expensive metals. But my suspicion is that if the speculators drive prices too high they will squeeze the industry right out of them. Which may be the only way we finally abandon battery tech that relies on them.
@@patreekotime4578I suspect investors like solid state because higher end products offer higher profit margins. They have likely all but given up on making a good margin on LFP batteries given the lower cost and the dominance by China.
Imogen, this might interest you. Deutsche Welle News Ukraine covered a story on the strategic move to solar+ batteries in Ukraine with a goal of making an "unbreakable power grid" through decentralised generation. National and local governments are incentivising solar uptake for critical infrastructure like hospitals but also highrise apartment buildings to communities to individual homes. Also over 300 grid scale solar farms are being built.
@@shaundudley4576 surely you wouldn't want a small nation destroyed by another larger nation? How is that sentiment even occurring in your brain without shuddering with horror?
The problem with all these BESS solutions in the UK is that they need planning permission. There's one been proposed about 10 miles from me and the NIMBY's are at it again! It'll be mired in planning disputes (and potentially refused) for 10 times as long as it would take to actually build. We are stuffed in the UK with the fundementals for Energy Transition. People don't want Super Grid upgrade pylons, offshore windfarm cable landing stations, windfarm grid connections sites. It's because so much of this is in the countryside. There's a sneaking suspicion that eventually the fossil fuel lobby will start to help fund these local campaign groups to slow down the transition. In China they simply just say "you're having it" so there's no arguement. I am not suggesting I want a one party dictatorship in the UK, far from it. But somehow there has to be a form of overiding "national interest" process on this transition that RAPIDLY overcomes bottlenecks and gets stuff done.
I live in a lovely part of Warwickshire, that’s currently being dug up for HS2. It worked for that didn’t it? My local area get zero upsides , yet has to deal with a lot of the downsides, now and in the future.
Good point noted by a Brit living in France. The Bordeaux to Paris LGV (high speed line) is 500 km and started building in 2012 the year before we moved here. It was completed in 2017...France is very much a democracy and you know what happens when people don't like what's going on, they protest like mad! But the national needs override local objections, none of this fannying around with parish councils, county councils and all that stuff, they just get on and do it. The UK always seem so worn out and poor when I go back there, terrible pot-holed roads and an embarrassingly poor and expensive rail network
Given the planning reforms being planned by Labour (Who lets face it are the next government, lets not get into the politics side of things where people slate one party or another, this isn't the place for that) then things like this will likely become significantly easier to put in place. They seem to be going all in on renewables which can only be a positive thing for projects like this.
@odds87 feel sorry for you as an individual but sadly there are always some people who will lose out. I wasn't thinking about high-speed rail. But that's another area where China has just made it happen. Nearly 10 years ago I took the line from Beijing to Xian. We need to take on board local suggestions for routing, environmental impact and visual amenity. But then pick the least worst option and get on with it.
@@geralddavison Agreed. You want better planning, taking on board local objections can't be much of a part of it. The entire reason HS2 went over budget was planning applications and the insane revision that councils required. Air vent buildings to look like local barn buildings so they would fit in... you know... behind the trees and because there's not lots of barns that look awful. People were horribly treated during HS2, and the obvious solution to all of those problems and Stonehenge is big tunnels. Just tunnel straight from London to Birmingham. The Victorians would have just got on with it. Could have dug the thing by hand by now. We had an interconnector blocked that was supposed to land around Portsmouth because the Nimbys didn't want their roads dug up. Who cares about the lung disease and people not having enough money to light their houses or cook food when some people might have to take a different route for a few weeks, eh? Also, this is a bipartisan sort of thing - all parties seem to agree the current system doesn't work, so they should all have fixed and should all get in a room like big girls and sort it out. I wish people would stop picking a government/party to blame it on when it's clearly the fault of all of them - they don't want to do the work because they won't get the credit in an election as it'll take years to come to fruition. Also because they're universally lazy sociopaths of course.
Clickbait using the word Tesla in the subject. They can't get the viewers unless they mock or make out that Tesla's massive lead is dead! Come on Everything Electric Show. You should know better, this is not a race. The more the merrier in the big party of battery storage. CATL and Tesla are partners in quite a lot of things. It is not the end for Tesla. It will be the end of me subscribing to the Everything Electric Show if you continue this nonsense.
Everyone does care about energy density. Nobody is interested in saving our planet now, with batteries the size of an average fridge, if we might be able to do it in a couple of decades, with batteries slightly smaller than an average fridge. Maybe we should just put everything on hold, until we have batteries small enough to put them in the freezer compartment of a slightly smaller than average fridge?
@@robinhood4640 But the technological development is only possible because they're selling the current generation to fund the R&D for the next generation. Putting it all "on hold" will just stop the funding of the development and therefore there won't be any advancement.
There are some use cases for higher-density stationary storage in urban environments. Such as for EV charging stations and buildings on high $/sq. m land. Putting storage inside urban areas that charge at night and discharge during daytime peaks can reduce grid infrastructure upgrades, by reducing the peak transmission capacity needed. For a solar or wind farm in the middle of now where massive flow batteries or pumped hydro are probably better,
@@robinhood4640 you clearly don't know what is grid storage, bc the batteries for that are the size of container and it's ok. Because it just f-ing sits there among other batteries on a small plot of land, and the only thing about it that stifles the adoption is cost
@@udavster I am on your side. The best you can do, is focus on a specific detail that you feel isn't appropriate to the signification of your comment. Why don't you focus on "stationary BESS", "energy density" and "nobody cares about density", which is exactly the crux of your comment? You might find my comment less indicative of my lack of knowledge, and not post a reply which i find indicative of your character.
I like CATL so much I bought a Tesla M3 battery pack containing CATL cells to put in on my house for the ultimate home energy storage 😀😃😅 Although I'm now thinking that container full of batteries hidden in my garden would be the ultimate storage.
Sodium battery? LFP 3MP LMFP?? Need be safe safe safe, before density ofenergy it has Safe #1 then energy capacity Well hope ot really will all lower energy price!
CATL is an amazing research, development, and production company for batteries, as are several other providers. And certainly they can scale. But at both the grid-level, substation level, or changer/home or store level, there is much more than good batteries to consider. In particular, there is the software and the IT infrastructure to go with that to control the battery systems and optimize the power networks. Tesla excels at that sort of thing as well. While there is huge demand and plenty of room for many players, I don't think Tesla has too much to worry about in the energy market place over the next 4-5 years and beyond.
Size for grid storage is less important than Total cost of ownership. This is really cool but if it's twice the cost.... I would love these batteries more in new electric cars
You still think in financial terms. If we want a future for our kids, that mindset has got to change. More so: those who profited from poluting the world, must contribute their fair share, without financial compensation.
The problem is CATL works with Tesla more then any other company on the planet,. They could buy this from CATL and sell it as well. The megapack is long from ending, and if CATL has a great storage system, Tesla may buy it!! Tesla's Tech is Steller when it comes to the Megapacks, an important part of the energy system. Tesla made 3.7 Billion in energy storage Q2 2024!!! They will be doing this in China, very soon, and probably be using CATL's batteries for their energy storage, Megapack!!!!!!
Imogen . I don't suppose youve checked the location of the newest CATL factory, (due to start ramping in Q1 2025)? . Its about 1km from the Tesla BESS "Megapactory" due for completion at about the same time... Coincidence??? . I *WONDER* where the cells will be coming from?. . Rather than competing, its almost as though Tesla and CATL are becoming symbiotic? (Great for *BOTH* companies)
Liked the update , but using " the end for Tesla Megapack " is a silly title . The products will co exist and Tesla use LFP themselves. The CATL claim that there is zero degradation is just not true they simply employ a buffer that evens out the degradation so the initial capacity appears to remain the same. Basically any battery from day 1 of use will incrementally grow its internal resistance and decrease the capacity.
It's 2024. Are we still really calling everything "The End for Tesla"? Tesla and CATL are partners. Tesla's energy storage business is growing rapidly. CATL & Tesla will both do great. Lets cheer for all great solutions, and stop cheering for "Tesla Killers". The "Tesla Killer Cemetery" is already full. :)
💯 If I had to name 3 companies which are "Least likely to kill each other"???? TESLA. CATL. BYD. . Most others? There's a high incidence of Self Harm, some Attempted $u1ciDe.
Iron flow, maybe sodium ion. No need for density in BESS. Tesla Megapack 3 with 23% margins will eliminate substations while generating massive revenues for owners via autobidder. THE NEWS is that stationary storage prices are absolutely plummeting in China. Not really this talk of density for stationary storage. CATL is great. Tesla is great. But you need Tesla in your video title for a reason, don't you.
The world's largest super fast charging network built in 2 years with 100K charging stations? Amazing, game changing if it's possible and comes to pass. Very big news for EV drivers with fast DC charging
Predictably/sadly sodium ion batteries are being omitted from the media narrative. The host (true-to-type)focuses on false or secondary priorities ie. super-mega-energy density and super-mega fast-charging. But sodium ion batteries(not least CATL's) - have major clear advantages but are obviously not wanted by the lithium mining and refining industry.. Paul G
Unfortunately here in the good ole USA one political party wants to blow UP all this amazing technology and DRILL, BABY, DRILL.Thanks for the presentation!
Unfortunately for you, the whole US political system being tied to "Lobbying" (legalised bribery) condemns you to be at best decades behind, at worst never joining the energy transition..... REGATDLESS of "tie colour" . (It's going to get "messy") (imo)
@@AlanTov The guy who voted Obama Obama Clinton Biden Then said "I won't vote D" following an intense, obviously politically motivated and nasty campaign against his companies AND him personally... . The guy who when asked outright recently who he would vote for refused to answer, but hinted there's not really a good choice? . The guy whose companies (IF you think about it) are concentrating on technologies leading to a Socialist system ("free stuff", abundance, workforce and monetary reform?) . I could add "Ownership of the workplace by the Proliteriat", that old mainstay of the policies preached by Karl Marx.... (Ya'know, the "Commie"?) The "Capitalist" version of which would be "extremely preferential purchase of company shares by the workforce" Pushed by ...guess who? . You literally "believe what you read in the papers" (or the modern equivalent) . More fool you.
Well presented Imogen not easy all very technical.My first EV this year at the age of 75 better late than never.The cars are fine it is the infrastructure the charging bit I try to get my head around Imogen.
Wasting lithium battery resources on DC fast charging stations and grid power storage is stupid and unsustainable. We need to stop seeking faster charging and using grid batteries for energy arbitrage (yes that was why Hornsdale started all of this). We must respect that scaling all of this battery tech comes with severe mining and refining emissions that don't fit within a zero carbon strategy. Grid storage should use pumped hydro or other means, reserving the lithium battery tech for light weight high energy density needed for vehicles. And vehicles should not be wasting battery resource to seek 300+ miles range to satiate uneducated ICE driver's concerns. We're letting tech bros decide our energy strategy and their letting the free market decide what they build. This is leading to LESS efficient vehicles year over year (SUV's and Pickups) as they get bigger and heavier with more power and needless dangerous acceleration. I respect that CATL is able to keep improving batteries. But let's create great sustainable policy, concentrate more of those batteries toward e-bikes and micromobility and get realistic about actual sustainable tech, which this is NOT. Not now, and not under zero carbon.
Nice, they shoould make portable solar-charged pack for rural homes. I ithink govts in Africa should partner with CATL to provide rural people with electricity connectivity.
She obviously has no idea what she's talking about. Energy density doesn't matter in grid storage, like not at all. I Grid storage energy density is literally a pointless extra cost. Battery lifetime and price are the important things in grid storage
That is already happening to a large extent. I noticed that the array of Tesla chargers near me in Poitiers has a Mega pack next to them sitting behind a security fence. I wouldn't mind betting that they are buying power from EDF overnight at a few cents/kWh and selling it during the day at €0.43/kWh...still cheaper than the competition but with 75% of French power coming from nuclear there are deals to be done if you buy power by the MWh.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 With the energy in France already being generated using environmentally friendly means, what is the benefit of also adding solar panels and batteries to the system? What is accomplished, outside of adding to the amount of resources being consumed?
@@PistonAvatarGuy what, seriously? They export energy to us mate. They sell us electricity. More electricity is good for them. Plus they benefit the same as anyone from having grid storage because it smooths out the grid and they too buy electricity when they need it. They can fill those batteries up with excess power during peak generation too and use or sell it later as needed. It also helps lessen the severity of power cuts. If the UK doubled it's energy generation, the power would a) be used for industry and things we can't currently afford and b) be sold to other countries for a profit and c) reduce the cost of our own power since we'd no longer be pegged to gas. Yes, there's no point building ten times the storage that you need, but no, there's no major country that has sufficient battery storage yet.
Battery chemistry is everything for grid storage battery systems and Tesla is sticking to its lithium batteries for grid storage At great risk for the company’s bottom line as better batteries like Vanadium flow and Iron air batteries are already proving to be longer lasting and dramatically less expensive save LFP BATTERIES FOR TRANSPORTATION
I think what CATL is doing here is just downrating the batteries, so that they’ve got spare capacity for those first five years. But it’s great that they’re getting significantly more energy density per square foot of storage!
2 things you need to realise. . 1) Batteries degrade most over the first 2-3 years as they "bed in" (non technical term, but fits the purpose). . 2) The reason they only quote "5 years" is they only have accelerated testing equivalent to "5 years" . But since they REALLY know what they're doing..... I'll take their word for it.
@@ASilentS I have a problem with your assumption that it's a "clickbait title" (regarding the "Zero Deg" claim) . If you'd gone after the "end for Tesla" angle..... I'm 100% with you..... Clickbait and inaccurate (especially when we consider that Tesla uses CATL cells)
This lady is absolutely refreshing to listen to, and there seems to be a (slow-) reaction to the inevitable shift to Sustainable Energy. To compete with Chinese headstart (After they reacted very energetically!) when ElonMusk warned EVERYBODY what is coming, and made available hundreds of patents (for free!) in electric car manufacturing! Traditional 'Legacy' car makers WILL become history ... Beautiful collector's items!
Why making it a battle between two companies? They're all working towards the same goal. You, as divulgator should try to reduce this wide polarisation. Please?
I do get why they see clickbait as a necessary evil to play the UA-cam game. But yeah it’s really frustrating to see it. Every video is someone making an exaggerated facial expression, or a clickbait title, or both. I’d love to have a go at reforming UA-cam. But it’s really more about the entire political and economic system that makes things like this inevitable.
Tesla Mega Pack isn't just storage, but managing, servicing and extremely sophisticated software, where Tesla excel. Better always ask Elon Musk first to be on the safe side. Besides as somebody has well pointed out, Tesla is one of CATL biggest customer, therefore I see plenty of cooperation, mutual respect and high profit margins for both.
Cells "settle" over time, usually less than 5 years. . "Experts" (like the largest battery company on the planet?) have learned to observe, then predict ongoing performance. . I think I MIGHT take their word on this (rather than an "upset" comment on the internet) . I mean, it's not like they're staking their "reputation" on this?
@@rogerstarkey5390 i believe in independently verified "facts", not marketing jargon. relying solely on unconfirmed marketing claims is naive at best, foolish at worst - especially given the size of the financial commitment involved
Extra! Extra CATL defies the laws of thermodynamics with new zero degradation battery!!!... except they don't. The unit does degrade, it's simply over spec'd. It's how they can announce the 15k cycle count. Shallow cycling by way of being over spec'd. All this assuming the figures aren't outright false because when it comes from that part of the world, no matter the name on the label, until you see it proven in the real world the figures, like the points, don't matter.
good value content, BUT You need to develop the speaker's pronunciation, without UA-cam subtitles, the audience struggles to clear understand what she says,....(at least I am following her with 0.75 velocity rate) just productive criticism to improve/increase your audience
In today's fast-paced world, where every minute counts, the ability to charge an electric car at a rate of 13 km/s would be a groundbreaking development. It would significantly enhance the practicality and appeal of electric vehicles.
Will this replace the Tesla Megapack? Probably not- and the title of this video is a bit click-baity. First, take any of this from Chinese companies with a grain of salt. Like their CLTC cycle for fuel efficiency, they tend to exagerate their claims. As for their new, High Speed charger with the built-in battery- do you have any idea of how much that is going to cost for each station? A centralized battery for several or more stations is more efficient and cheaper, when it is needed.
CATL its....just crazy good! In China there are lots of their chargers already installed and they work well. So...this is not dreams on paper, its reality!
Even though Australia has all the benefits i.e. sunshine it has been very slow indeed to uptake battery storage on a grid scale, except for rooftop solar the energy transition is painfully slow. Centralized generation and distribution systems are for most of us obsolete. So who is benefitting by keeping them going?
Isn't high energy density unnecessary for stationary grid storage? I bet cheap but long lasting batteries is the most important aspect of large scale stationary storage
Not necessarily, smaller batteries means smaller systems, smaller connections, smaller amounts of weight the structure has to hold, and with smaller sized cells it makes it easier to cool them. All of those factors could save a battery plant millions when it comes to construction
These are the cost of too much variable RE. And much material. That also could have been put into vehicles, that use fuel now The investment should be put in stable energysources.
Don’t you realize Tesla use catl batteries It’s a bit of a shame that you guys are caught up in the hate Elon syndrome and getting clicks for the same thing that you say the mainstream media are doing to evs
But, that fast charger makes no sense. It charges itself up at 40kW and discharges at up to 480kW, so in 24h of charging it can only charge cars for about 2h per day???
That’s my first thought. I guess it’s slightly better than that though. My car can charge very fast but when nearly full it only takes 70-90kW. Few cars can take over 400kW. But the point still stands. It can’t run anything near to 100% occupancy or even typical occupancy.
I like the idea for the corner store type thing, you could have it so each customer only got the super fast charging for a certain % of battery so they could do a quick top up while they grab there coffee/milk etc… Yer specs seem crazy but I expect it’s easy to make it flow out fast once you have the battery supplying power very close to the car.
Wait ... Input 40kW, output 400kW, and 96kWh capacity? So you deliver 2-3 super-fast charging sessions, then sit and recharge for 2.5 hours? The intermittent availability is going to piss drivers off, don't you think?
How would CATL battery tech hurt Tesla? Tesla is CATL’s biggest customer. Tesla is listening their tech to build lfp batteries in America (likely for energy storage). CATL is the Tesla of the battery industry.
After many years with almost no production and zero profits, Tesla finally increased production of Megapacks in 2023 and maybe made a profit but they need to buy the batteries, cells from other companies like CATL which is now cutting out Tesla by competing with them. BESS is low margin backroom stuff: just put an inverter on a battery!
Why is everything branded as the end of Tesla?!?! Everything Electric should be better than this!!!
They need to get that dig into Tesla to get that sweet sweet clickbait.... 🤣🤣
Totally agree, we aren't 10 years old.
I can only assume it feeds the algorithms, but it's really annoying.
agree...
Tesla has largely been one of the main installers of large grid scale batteries, it's nice to see competition in the market for them.
Tesla were first movers in this space obviously. Chill TF out and don't get your panties in a twist.
Um, isn't Tesla one of CATL's biggest customers? They both win!
Not one of. The biggest.
Yes, but realistically CATL will do most of their business directly outside of the auto business.
The whole thing about Tesla taking on the world as an energy provider is 9000% bulls**t - they are literally just packaging and reselling CATL and Panasonic product.
@@mnomadvfxthe profits will go to Tesla.
@@mnomadvfx Megapack 3 will allow direct HVDC connection, eliminating substations. Autobidder makes millions in arbitrage for the owner. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
@@mnomadvfx don't they have their own 4680 cells including production facilities for some vehicles like Cybertruck?!
Anyway you slice this information - we are moving forward was this tech and that’s a good thing. Faster we get off reliance of fossil energy the better. 🎉🎉🎉😊
Don't let dirty geopolitics and fossil fuel industry get in the way of what humanity truly needs. Well done CATL and all the other innovative Chinese companies.
“Innovative”
CATL pollutes a lot with their mining, better invest in european battery makers
exactly! people and the planet wins!
"Dirty geopolitics" you've really drank the Chinese kool aid - it'd be a disaster for Western economies and jobs if we entirely offshored automotive and energy storage production to China, it'll devastate industrial communities that are already suffering (e.g. Wales, NE England, Mid-West America, Germany... the list goes on) - hence some pushback is warranted.
@@gustavoramirezdiaz1347 No one outside of China is getting anything close to the specs on CATL and BYD's LFP batteries. Even some Teslas in the US have those batteries so you can't say it's all fake news.
Had the pleasure of visiting the CATL booth at EES Europe too and if these performance levels are indeed true then it's mind blowing. It just shows how far ahead the Chinese battery giants are compared to the ROW!
Well, it helps that they've had control of the patents for LFPs! When the West was asleep at the wheel, China was actually breaking ground. Sadly, alot of the money in the West is going into solid state and other related technologies that will only get more expensive. Which means China will probably end up making all of the important breakthroughs with sodium ion as well. Because they understand that the problem isn't making denser batteries in general, its maker cheaper batteries perform better,
@@patreekotime4578 true, too much focus on solid state that realistically will only be reserved for luxury high end vehicles eventually whilst China dominate the mass market
@@davidbeeston8833 Solid state *may* have a place in aviation, but I doubt it in the long term. Fire safety is an even bigger issue in airplanes than in cars. I suspect there will have to be a whole new branch of batteries to handle that use case. But for motor vehicles, LFP and sodium ion look like the actual future. The investment bro types love solid state because it requires more expensive metals. But my suspicion is that if the speculators drive prices too high they will squeeze the industry right out of them. Which may be the only way we finally abandon battery tech that relies on them.
@@patreekotime4578I suspect investors like solid state because higher end products offer higher profit margins.
They have likely all but given up on making a good margin on LFP batteries given the lower cost and the dominance by China.
Whats the cost of that Battery pack ?
Because,
for Stationary storage Energy density doesn't matter much.
Only cost matters.
Imogen, this might interest you.
Deutsche Welle News Ukraine covered a story on the strategic move to solar+ batteries in Ukraine with a goal of making an "unbreakable power grid" through decentralised generation. National and local governments are incentivising solar uptake for critical infrastructure like hospitals but also highrise apartment buildings to communities to individual homes. Also over 300 grid scale solar farms are being built.
Pleased to read this. I did read somewhere that Ukraine is going full on on on-shore wind too. 👍🏻
@@Nikoo033 and I read somewhere that the ukraine is a dead man walking
@@shaundudley4576 surely you wouldn't want a small nation destroyed by another larger nation? How is that sentiment even occurring in your brain without shuddering with horror?
The problem with all these BESS solutions in the UK is that they need planning permission. There's one been proposed about 10 miles from me and the NIMBY's are at it again! It'll be mired in planning disputes (and potentially refused) for 10 times as long as it would take to actually build.
We are stuffed in the UK with the fundementals for Energy Transition. People don't want Super Grid upgrade pylons, offshore windfarm cable landing stations, windfarm grid connections sites.
It's because so much of this is in the countryside. There's a sneaking suspicion that eventually the fossil fuel lobby will start to help fund these local campaign groups to slow down the transition.
In China they simply just say "you're having it" so there's no arguement. I am not suggesting I want a one party dictatorship in the UK, far from it. But somehow there has to be a form of overiding "national interest" process on this transition that RAPIDLY overcomes bottlenecks and gets stuff done.
I live in a lovely part of Warwickshire, that’s currently being dug up for HS2. It worked for that didn’t it? My local area get zero upsides , yet has to deal with a lot of the downsides, now and in the future.
Good point noted by a Brit living in France. The Bordeaux to Paris LGV (high speed line) is 500 km and started building in 2012 the year before we moved here. It was completed in 2017...France is very much a democracy and you know what happens when people don't like what's going on, they protest like mad! But the national needs override local objections, none of this fannying around with parish councils, county councils and all that stuff, they just get on and do it. The UK always seem so worn out and poor when I go back there, terrible pot-holed roads and an embarrassingly poor and expensive rail network
Given the planning reforms being planned by Labour (Who lets face it are the next government, lets not get into the politics side of things where people slate one party or another, this isn't the place for that) then things like this will likely become significantly easier to put in place. They seem to be going all in on renewables which can only be a positive thing for projects like this.
@odds87 feel sorry for you as an individual but sadly there are always some people who will lose out. I wasn't thinking about high-speed rail. But that's another area where China has just made it happen. Nearly 10 years ago I took the line from Beijing to Xian.
We need to take on board local suggestions for routing, environmental impact and visual amenity. But then pick the least worst option and get on with it.
@@geralddavison Agreed. You want better planning, taking on board local objections can't be much of a part of it. The entire reason HS2 went over budget was planning applications and the insane revision that councils required. Air vent buildings to look like local barn buildings so they would fit in... you know... behind the trees and because there's not lots of barns that look awful.
People were horribly treated during HS2, and the obvious solution to all of those problems and Stonehenge is big tunnels. Just tunnel straight from London to Birmingham. The Victorians would have just got on with it. Could have dug the thing by hand by now.
We had an interconnector blocked that was supposed to land around Portsmouth because the Nimbys didn't want their roads dug up. Who cares about the lung disease and people not having enough money to light their houses or cook food when some people might have to take a different route for a few weeks, eh?
Also, this is a bipartisan sort of thing - all parties seem to agree the current system doesn't work, so they should all have fixed and should all get in a room like big girls and sort it out. I wish people would stop picking a government/party to blame it on when it's clearly the fault of all of them - they don't want to do the work because they won't get the credit in an election as it'll take years to come to fruition. Also because they're universally lazy sociopaths of course.
Clickbait using the word Tesla in the subject. They can't get the viewers unless they mock or make out that Tesla's massive lead is dead! Come on Everything Electric Show. You should know better, this is not a race. The more the merrier in the big party of battery storage. CATL and Tesla are partners in quite a lot of things. It is not the end for Tesla. It will be the end of me subscribing to the Everything Electric Show if you continue this nonsense.
CATL is coming out with just such amazing technologies, Imogen great video keep up with great work ;)
Best reporter!
And well done CATL, i mean 15000 life cycles for a battery??? That is just amazing.
Sounds like a press release, but if it’s as good as the claims and there are no glossed over gotchas, then 🎉🎉🎉
Everything from this channel seems like a press release.... I'm excited for the content but I wish it was less like an advert
Well, they can't exactly test drive a grid storage device.... :D
It's stationary BESS, no one cares about density. Other than that - great news
Everyone does care about energy density.
Nobody is interested in saving our planet now, with batteries the size of an average fridge, if we might be able to do it in a couple of decades, with batteries slightly smaller than an average fridge.
Maybe we should just put everything on hold, until we have batteries small enough to put them in the freezer compartment of a slightly smaller than average fridge?
@@robinhood4640 But the technological development is only possible because they're selling the current generation to fund the R&D for the next generation. Putting it all "on hold" will just stop the funding of the development and therefore there won't be any advancement.
There are some use cases for higher-density stationary storage in urban environments. Such as for EV charging stations and buildings on high $/sq. m land. Putting storage inside urban areas that charge at night and discharge during daytime peaks can reduce grid infrastructure upgrades, by reducing the peak transmission capacity needed. For a solar or wind farm in the middle of now where massive flow batteries or pumped hydro are probably better,
@@robinhood4640 you clearly don't know what is grid storage, bc the batteries for that are the size of container and it's ok. Because it just f-ing sits there among other batteries on a small plot of land, and the only thing about it that stifles the adoption is cost
@@udavster I am on your side.
The best you can do, is focus on a specific detail that you feel isn't appropriate to the signification of your comment.
Why don't you focus on "stationary BESS", "energy density" and "nobody cares about density", which is exactly the crux of your comment? You might find my comment less indicative of my lack of knowledge, and not post a reply which i find indicative of your character.
Stop it with the clickbait come on
Yes, congrats. You could have had a new subscriber but after 3 minutes now i know to never click one of their videos again.
Title is annoying af - instant deabo.
Bye.... Nobody cares.......
Tesla Megapack ❤❤
Every time I see shite clickbait titles like this I continue to lose more and more respect for EES!!! 🤢 🤮
Yeah..... Whatever......stop grandstanding...... nobody cares.....!!
... watch the content... Or f off.......
This lady will do well delivering the news in Renewables. What a stand out. Obviously very articulate and smart.
I like CATL so much I bought a Tesla M3 battery pack containing CATL cells to put in on my house for the ultimate home energy storage 😀😃😅 Although I'm now thinking that container full of batteries hidden in my garden would be the ultimate storage.
👍😉
CATL' LFP are in Tesla's entry-level, low-range RWD models. ALl higher Performance, Long Range trims use Panasonic or LG.
@@tooltalkthey do indeed. I imagine if the energy density improved we could see LFP in the entire range.
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan not without density improvement and there are always tradeoffs in cost, performance and durability.
Sodium battery?
LFP 3MP LMFP??
Need be safe safe safe, before density ofenergy it has
Safe #1 then energy capacity
Well hope ot really will all lower energy price!
Tesla Killer? They just add Tesla in the title to get views. We are still waiting for the iPhone killer.
IPhone was overtaken years ago. Android flagships wipe the floor with Applecrap
The title actually has two question marks. So not a statement but more of a question, talking point or tongue-in-cheek comment.
CATL is an amazing research, development, and production company for batteries, as are several other providers. And certainly they can scale. But at both the grid-level, substation level, or changer/home or store level, there is much more than good batteries to consider. In particular, there is the software and the IT infrastructure to go with that to control the battery systems and optimize the power networks. Tesla excels at that sort of thing as well. While there is huge demand and plenty of room for many players, I don't think Tesla has too much to worry about in the energy market place over the next 4-5 years and beyond.
Size for grid storage is less important than Total cost of ownership. This is really cool but if it's twice the cost.... I would love these batteries more in new electric cars
Let's just say the largest producer in the market tends to be the most competitive?
You still think in financial terms. If we want a future for our kids, that mindset has got to change. More so: those who profited from poluting the world, must contribute their fair share, without financial compensation.
LFP is cheaper than NMC. The Chinese ARE thinking about cost.
What a top notch presenter! Very beautiful, smart and well articulated. ❤
The problem is CATL works with Tesla more then any other company on the planet,. They could buy this from CATL and sell it as well. The megapack is long from ending, and if CATL has a great storage system, Tesla may buy it!! Tesla's Tech is Steller when it comes to the Megapacks, an important part of the energy system. Tesla made 3.7 Billion in energy storage Q2 2024!!! They will be doing this in China, very soon, and probably be using CATL's batteries for their energy storage, Megapack!!!!!!
The price of the Tesla Megapack halved in the last year - I wonder why?
Imogen
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I don't suppose youve checked the location of the newest CATL factory, (due to start ramping in Q1 2025)?
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Its about 1km from the Tesla BESS "Megapactory" due for completion at about the same time...
Coincidence???
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I *WONDER* where the cells will be coming from?.
.
Rather than competing, its almost as though Tesla and CATL are becoming symbiotic?
(Great for *BOTH* companies)
Liked the update , but using " the end for Tesla Megapack " is a silly title . The products will co exist and Tesla use LFP themselves. The CATL claim that there is zero degradation is just not true they simply employ a buffer that evens out the degradation so the initial capacity appears to remain the same. Basically any battery from day 1 of use will incrementally grow its internal resistance and decrease the capacity.
It's 2024. Are we still really calling everything "The End for Tesla"? Tesla and CATL are partners. Tesla's energy storage business is growing rapidly. CATL & Tesla will both do great. Lets cheer for all great solutions, and stop cheering for "Tesla Killers". The "Tesla Killer Cemetery" is already full. :)
💯
If I had to name 3 companies which are "Least likely to kill each other"????
TESLA.
CATL.
BYD.
.
Most others? There's a high incidence of Self Harm, some Attempted $u1ciDe.
Tesla is a customer for CATL LFP cells?
YES
Tesla is a customer for both CATL and BYD.
Which is why they cannot compete with CATL especially when it comes to LFP
Unless I'm mistaken Tesla is CATLs largest customer...
Great for both companies.
@@MegaWilderness
You won't let it go, will you?
.
They don't NEED to compete.
They're both going to win BIG TIME.
Great vid👍
But most amazing is that bell bottom pants are making a comeback 🤣.
Cheers
Yes pleats and bell bottoms. Both are style items from the past that used more fabric
More like parachute pants. Probably nice and cool in the summer.
Iron flow, maybe sodium ion. No need for density in BESS. Tesla Megapack 3 with 23% margins will eliminate substations while generating massive revenues for owners via autobidder. THE NEWS is that stationary storage prices are absolutely plummeting in China. Not really this talk of density for stationary storage. CATL is great. Tesla is great. But you need Tesla in your video title for a reason, don't you.
The world's largest super fast charging network built in 2 years with 100K charging stations? Amazing, game changing if it's possible and comes to pass. Very big news for EV drivers with fast DC charging
Predictably/sadly sodium ion batteries are being omitted from the media narrative. The host (true-to-type)focuses on false or secondary priorities ie. super-mega-energy density and super-mega fast-charging. But sodium ion batteries(not least CATL's) - have major clear advantages but are obviously not wanted by the lithium mining and refining industry..
Paul G
Unfortunately here in the good ole USA one political party wants to blow UP all this amazing technology and DRILL, BABY, DRILL.Thanks for the presentation!
Unfortunately for you, the whole US political system being tied to "Lobbying" (legalised bribery) condemns you to be at best decades behind, at worst never joining the energy transition..... REGATDLESS of "tie colour"
.
(It's going to get "messy")
(imo)
And Musk actively supports that party. In fact the far right extremist part of it.
@@AlanTov
The guy who voted
Obama
Obama
Clinton
Biden
Then said "I won't vote D" following an intense, obviously politically motivated and nasty campaign against his companies AND him personally...
.
The guy who when asked outright recently who he would vote for refused to answer, but hinted there's not really a good choice?
.
The guy whose companies (IF you think about it) are concentrating on technologies leading to a Socialist system ("free stuff", abundance, workforce and monetary reform?)
.
I could add "Ownership of the workplace by the Proliteriat", that old mainstay of the policies preached by Karl Marx.... (Ya'know, the "Commie"?)
The "Capitalist" version of which would be "extremely preferential purchase of company shares by the workforce"
Pushed by ...guess who?
.
You literally "believe what you read in the papers" (or the modern equivalent)
.
More fool you.
China is going to be the first Electrostate...while the U.S (if under Trump) collpases
Well presented Imogen not easy all very technical.My first EV this year at the age of 75 better late than never.The cars are fine it is the infrastructure the charging bit I try to get my head around Imogen.
Wasting lithium battery resources on DC fast charging stations and grid power storage is stupid and unsustainable. We need to stop seeking faster charging and using grid batteries for energy arbitrage (yes that was why Hornsdale started all of this). We must respect that scaling all of this battery tech comes with severe mining and refining emissions that don't fit within a zero carbon strategy. Grid storage should use pumped hydro or other means, reserving the lithium battery tech for light weight high energy density needed for vehicles. And vehicles should not be wasting battery resource to seek 300+ miles range to satiate uneducated ICE driver's concerns. We're letting tech bros decide our energy strategy and their letting the free market decide what they build. This is leading to LESS efficient vehicles year over year (SUV's and Pickups) as they get bigger and heavier with more power and needless dangerous acceleration. I respect that CATL is able to keep improving batteries. But let's create great sustainable policy, concentrate more of those batteries toward e-bikes and micromobility and get realistic about actual sustainable tech, which this is NOT. Not now, and not under zero carbon.
What im getting is that Tesla does it first. 2nd movers do it better.
Great report!!! We need all of the storage solutions (and charging solutions) and the competition they provide.
Who will win? THE PLANET.
If I were CATL, I'd make my equipment mockups less fragile. Just looking at a few percent of the product @1:45 we can see it's broken in 5 places.
Nice, they shoould make portable solar-charged pack for rural homes. I ithink govts in Africa should partner with CATL to provide rural people with electricity connectivity.
I think there are a number of companies that are doing that. Some of them probably buy their batteries from CATL.
THANKS IMOGENE 🤗 FOR SHARING THE PROGRESS FOR THE FUTURE 👍💚💚💚
She obviously has no idea what she's talking about. Energy density doesn't matter in grid storage, like not at all. I Grid storage energy density is literally a pointless extra cost. Battery lifetime and price are the important things in grid storage
Just 24 batteries and it can power 6000UK homes in a day!
is there any information regarding €/MWh? how much would systems like these cost?
CATL are engineering very thoughtful solutions to new tricky problems. Thanks Imogen & team for a great segment.
Its about time that all fast chargers were connected to a battery to reduce grid stress and then the charging company can power their prices.
That and a solar canopy to protect drivers from the elements, consequently helping to charge the battery.
So environmentally friendly!
That is already happening to a large extent. I noticed that the array of Tesla chargers near me in Poitiers has a Mega pack next to them sitting behind a security fence. I wouldn't mind betting that they are buying power from EDF overnight at a few cents/kWh and selling it during the day at €0.43/kWh...still cheaper than the competition but with 75% of French power coming from nuclear there are deals to be done if you buy power by the MWh.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 With the energy in France already being generated using environmentally friendly means, what is the benefit of also adding solar panels and batteries to the system? What is accomplished, outside of adding to the amount of resources being consumed?
@@PistonAvatarGuy what, seriously? They export energy to us mate. They sell us electricity. More electricity is good for them. Plus they benefit the same as anyone from having grid storage because it smooths out the grid and they too buy electricity when they need it. They can fill those batteries up with excess power during peak generation too and use or sell it later as needed.
It also helps lessen the severity of power cuts. If the UK doubled it's energy generation, the power would a) be used for industry and things we can't currently afford and b) be sold to other countries for a profit and c) reduce the cost of our own power since we'd no longer be pegged to gas.
Yes, there's no point building ten times the storage that you need, but no, there's no major country that has sufficient battery storage yet.
Whats the cost of that Battery pack ?
Because,
for Stationary storage Energy density doesn't matter much.
Only cost matters.
Neither does unit cost.
If it pays for itself in 12, or 18 months, its all good
Battery chemistry is everything for grid storage battery systems and Tesla is sticking to its lithium batteries for grid storage At great risk for the company’s bottom line as better batteries like Vanadium flow and Iron air batteries are already proving to be longer lasting and dramatically less expensive save LFP BATTERIES FOR TRANSPORTATION
You haven't looked at the CATL website?
(Sodium ion for storage)
.
You really should.
Did you mean Tesla is now getting some help with the transition? Let's hope some more join in.
It's very exciting seeing the problems being solved, one by one, and Imogen, you are doing a wonderful job explaining it all to us. Thankyou.
I think what CATL is doing here is just downrating the batteries, so that they’ve got spare capacity for those first five years. But it’s great that they’re getting significantly more energy density per square foot of storage!
Its just the lithium iron phosphate chemistry
what they don't talk about is how cheap those batteries and parts are made
Zero battery degradation IN THE FIRST FIVE YEARS. Thanks for the clickbait title 🙄
2 things you need to realise.
.
1) Batteries degrade most over the first 2-3 years as they "bed in" (non technical term, but fits the purpose).
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2) The reason they only quote "5 years" is they only have accelerated testing equivalent to "5 years"
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But since they REALLY know what they're doing..... I'll take their word for it.
@@rogerstarkey5390 um.....duh. I have nothing against CATL's technology. I have a problem with clickbait titles.
@@ASilentS
I have a problem with your assumption that it's a "clickbait title" (regarding the "Zero Deg" claim)
.
If you'd gone after the "end for Tesla" angle..... I'm 100% with you..... Clickbait and inaccurate (especially when we consider that Tesla uses CATL cells)
Absolutely no wear and tear, right up until it starts falling to pieces.
That's exactly what CATL announced. Why are you thinking that CATL's official release would be click bait?
This lady is absolutely refreshing to listen to, and there seems to be a (slow-) reaction to the inevitable shift to Sustainable Energy. To compete with Chinese headstart (After they reacted very energetically!) when ElonMusk warned EVERYBODY what is coming, and made available hundreds of patents (for free!) in electric car manufacturing! Traditional 'Legacy' car makers WILL become history ... Beautiful collector's items!
1:45 Janky fake coolant lines. 🤭
I'm favoured, $60k every week! I can now give back to the locals in my community and also support God's work and the church. God bless America.
But how do you make so much in a month?mind sharing?
Thanks to my co-worker(Alex) who suggested mrs Mary Margaret Schimweg
Same here, with my current portfolio made from my investments with my personal financial advisor (Mary Margaret Schimweg) I totally agree with you
I have heard a lot of wonderful things about Mary Margaret on the news but didn't believe it until now. I'm definitely trying her out
Good idea, not new but sounds much better than competition.
I also think Imogen is beautiful ; )
This really has very little to do with Tesla.
But... Clickbait....
Sigh
when UA-camr & media is desperate for attention-all they got to mention is something negative about Tesla, Tesla & Tesla!-pathetic!😂😁💩
Very encouraging, Imogen! But wowza… what a crowd. Better you there than me, as I do not like feeling jostled and herded.
Why making it a battle between two companies? They're all working towards the same goal. You, as divulgator should try to reduce this wide polarisation. Please?
Tesla and it's stock price is on a solid downhill, but not all have realized it yet
It's only *UP* 38% in exactly 9 weeks.... 🤷🏼♀️
I do get why they see clickbait as a necessary evil to play the UA-cam game. But yeah it’s really frustrating to see it. Every video is someone making an exaggerated facial expression, or a clickbait title, or both. I’d love to have a go at reforming UA-cam. But it’s really more about the entire political and economic system that makes things like this inevitable.
Why does it only last for at least 20 years if it has zero degradation?
Zero degradation in the first five years.
I could listen to Imogen talk tech all day!
Very informative program, and an articulate and delightful woman to watch. :)
She’s got a Kate beckinsale thing about her , I’m in love
No degradation .... for the first five years?
That's what I call clickbait. :/
This is just a hidden buffer then!
Tesla Mega Pack isn't just storage, but managing, servicing and extremely sophisticated software, where Tesla excel. Better always ask Elon Musk first to be on the safe side. Besides as somebody has well pointed out, Tesla is one of CATL biggest customer, therefore I see plenty of cooperation, mutual respect and high profit margins for both.
Would love to know the price and how it compares to Tesla for the large pack and leading providers for the charging system.
'Zero battery degradation' is false and misleading term when it's only for 5 years, and even that without independent verification
Cells "settle" over time, usually less than 5 years.
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"Experts" (like the largest battery company on the planet?) have learned to observe, then predict ongoing performance.
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I think I MIGHT take their word on this (rather than an "upset" comment on the internet)
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I mean, it's not like they're staking their "reputation" on this?
@@rogerstarkey5390 i believe in independently verified "facts", not marketing jargon.
relying solely on unconfirmed marketing claims is naive at best, foolish at worst - especially given the size of the financial commitment involved
Extra! Extra CATL defies the laws of thermodynamics with new zero degradation battery!!!... except they don't. The unit does degrade, it's simply over spec'd. It's how they can announce the 15k cycle count. Shallow cycling by way of being over spec'd. All this assuming the figures aren't outright false because when it comes from that part of the world, no matter the name on the label, until you see it proven in the real world the figures, like the points, don't matter.
good value content, BUT You need to develop the speaker's pronunciation, without UA-cam subtitles, the audience struggles to clear understand what she says,....(at least I am following her with 0.75 velocity rate) just productive criticism to improve/increase your audience
In today's fast-paced world, where every minute counts, the ability to charge an electric car at a rate of 13 km/s would be a groundbreaking development. It would significantly enhance the practicality and appeal of electric vehicles.
200 seconds for 200 miles thats faster than filling up with fuel.
Will this replace the Tesla Megapack? Probably not- and the title of this video is a bit click-baity. First, take any of this from Chinese companies with a grain of salt. Like their CLTC cycle for fuel efficiency, they tend to exagerate their claims. As for their new, High Speed charger with the built-in battery- do you have any idea of how much that is going to cost for each station? A centralized battery for several or more stations is more efficient and cheaper, when it is needed.
CATL its....just crazy good! In China there are lots of their chargers already installed and they work well. So...this is not dreams on paper, its reality!
Even though Australia has all the benefits i.e. sunshine it has been very slow indeed to uptake battery storage on a grid scale, except for rooftop solar the energy transition is painfully slow. Centralized generation and distribution systems are for most of us obsolete. So who is benefitting by keeping them going?
Isn't high energy density unnecessary for stationary grid storage? I bet cheap but long lasting batteries is the most important aspect of large scale stationary storage
Not necessarily, smaller batteries means smaller systems, smaller connections, smaller amounts of weight the structure has to hold, and with smaller sized cells it makes it easier to cool them. All of those factors could save a battery plant millions when it comes to construction
Impressive. Lots of great info packed into a bite-sized episode.
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.
Energy density? Who cares? Just make it cheap and reliable. Nobody gives a stuff whether it's ten shipping containers or twenty.
These are the cost of too much variable RE.
And much material.
That also could have been put into vehicles, that use fuel now
The investment should be put in stable energysources.
Thank you Imogen for the presentation. Always a pleasure to watch.
Anxiously awaiting higher C rating LFP or equivalent. Theyre ready for stationary storage but i want them in everything!
How come you take 40kW (or less) of power and convert it to 480kW of power? That doesnt sound right.
0% degredation is far from reality. They're more like asking for investors if you ask me. Anyway, a progress is still a progress 🎉
Don’t you realize Tesla use catl batteries
It’s a bit of a shame that you guys are caught up in the hate Elon syndrome and getting clicks for the same thing that you say the mainstream media are doing to evs
So, the charger earns its keep through energy arbitrage when it isn't charging EVs.
my daughter is an engineer. It is sad seeing the crowd at that event still looks 95%+ male. great story though, thanks
Why hhave you turned off comments in your crowdfunding video??? - very suspicious!
Space isnt the issue. It's scalability. 0 degradation on the first five years is still degradation.
I still don't get why this is such a game changer. Nor did she give enough information.
1:46 the quality is obviously very high, check the silver tubes on the upper module…
Your presentation’s so dam slick! Great video.
But, that fast charger makes no sense. It charges itself up at 40kW and discharges at up to 480kW, so in 24h of charging it can only charge cars for about 2h per day???
Capability vs capacity realy didn't get covered, really need allot more detailed information.
That’s my first thought. I guess it’s slightly better than that though. My car can charge very fast but when nearly full it only takes 70-90kW. Few cars can take over 400kW. But the point still stands. It can’t run anything near to 100% occupancy or even typical occupancy.
I like the idea for the corner store type thing, you could have it so each customer only got the super fast charging for a certain % of battery so they could do a quick top up while they grab there coffee/milk etc… Yer specs seem crazy but I expect it’s easy to make it flow out fast once you have the battery supplying power very close to the car.
Unnecessary reference to Tesla. The Megapack wasn't everyone's first choice
Why am I hearing "game changer" at every turn in almost everything these days. 🎉
Wait ... Input 40kW, output 400kW, and 96kWh capacity? So you deliver 2-3 super-fast charging sessions, then sit and recharge for 2.5 hours? The intermittent availability is going to piss drivers off, don't you think?
I could see them useful in 10min only parking spots in front of corner stores.
How would CATL battery tech hurt Tesla? Tesla is CATL’s biggest customer. Tesla is listening their tech to build lfp batteries in America (likely for energy storage). CATL is the Tesla of the battery industry.
After many years with almost no production and zero profits, Tesla finally increased production of Megapacks in 2023 and maybe made a profit but they need to buy the batteries, cells from other companies like CATL which is now cutting out Tesla by competing with them. BESS is low margin backroom stuff: just put an inverter on a battery!