Fun Fact: The song during the fight was sung by Caleb Hyles, who is a fan or RWBY and sings covers of RWBY songs EDIT: And yes, Watts was counting his bullets
@@shakyragriffin7557 Dr. Polendina told the whole story in S07E07. With the Watts face reveal when he finished. The Normies, being "professional" reactors, watch too many shows at the same time to be able to remember details. Like when they forgot about Landing Strategies even though they were shown earlier in the season. They trade quantity for quality on their channel.
Fun Fact: This arena was using Gravity Dust as its main component, similar to how the other biomes in the tournament had themes like that. This stage was actually a concept for an arena in Volume 3 that was never used, so they brought it back and fleshed it out for this fight. Also the song is essentially Ironwood's theme song, and its awesome
Prepare yourselves for a LOT of very heated Ironwood discourse in your comment section now that his character arc is making itself known. A point: Watts does not have ‘gravity rings,’ he has hacker rings and the arena they were fighting in was gravity-based. His rings allow him to manipulate technology, thus, he was turning the Gravity Dust platforms on and off at his leisure to toss Ironwood around. We see him use them to manipulate traffic signals to his advantage in an earlier episode.
I love the juxtaposition of the two scenes of Summer. In V6 the sun is shining and the music is hopeful, the camera moves toward Summer as she turns toward Ruby and she’s smiling. Ruby’s envisioning her as a light, a beacon of comfort. Here, the sky is grey and overcast, the music is this eerie screech, Summer is turning from Ruby as the camera moves away from her. She’s no longer that bright light, she’s just a painful memory, a reminder that she’s really gone.
And there's what sounds like a woman's scream when Ruby's eyes flash. I love the idea that Ruby's eyes are reacting while her brain tries not to overload with grief.
This is my favorite chapter in all of RWBY, sometimes rewatching other i think... "hmmm... may i like this one better", but no, every time i rewatch this episode i love it more and more. One thing i love about the fight between Tyrian Vs Qrow/Clover/Robin is how the three of them work together, Qrow going for the close combat, robin controlling from long distance, and Clover mid/short distance fighting and keeping control of the tail at all times. Just beautiful. About the argument of the Ace Ops against Team RWBY's reasons to do what they're doing, is pretty simple, Team RWBY are huntresses, the Ace Ops are soldiers, they have different mentalities on how to do things, and they're... as they've been all season, following orders. I could honestly talk about every single scene in this chapter forever, but just wanted to mention one last thing; the visual of Ironwood walking away from his office while Ruby is at the desk, just... for some reason it really gets to me.
It’s even better when you binge this whole season. There’s some great foreshadowing I didn’t catch my first watch. In chapter 2 after Elm apologizes to Ruby, Ruby says, “It’s fine, you guys were just following orders.” And my favorite bit of foreshadowing, also in chapter 2, Oscar fumbling to figure out what to call Ironwood. And as we know at the end of the volume Ironwood let’s Oscar know what he should call him.
This is why I feel sooo bad for the people who stopped at volume 5 I feel like a lot of the complaints I hear for this volume is that it’s bad writing that Ruby lied but I think that’s a flaw on her character but not the writing
@@pumpkinwarrior7138 What a lot of people don't talk about is I think it's reasonable y they didn't tell Ironwood right away, from their perspective they had been betrayed by back to back 'leaders' of city's. First it was ozpin and them learning the truth about salem, then it was lionheart, and when they arrived in atlas/mantle they weren't loving how dictatory things were looking.
@@patricktorres1292 dont forget yangs the only one that stuck to her guns the whole way through and was like "okay I know its bad but we really should probably tell Ironwood now rather than later." Cause she knows exactly how it feels to have the people you trust most in life withhold shit from you on repeated occasions.
I love the interesting twist on Rwbys themes of unity and trust Salem trusted Watts and Tyrian who in turn trusted each other and although Cinder was out of the loop they where all unified in there goal to take down Atlas, contrast that with team Rwby and Ironwood who all let fear corrupt their decisions which only helped Salem further her advantage
And similarly, Salem, Watts and Tyrian had no idea that Cinder was even in Atlas until Ruby told the former, thinking that it was Salem who sent her when in fact it was Cinder acting on her own plans. It's cool that it was Cinder who came up with the plan to use the Black Queen symbol to shatter Ironwood's confidence and thus shatter the unity and cohesiveness of the heroes, completely separate from Salem and co. It's cool to see Cinder find some further use for her "Black Queen" persona which the world came to know her as after the Fall of Beacon, which she also instigated.
That was a good comparison! Usually it's the bad guys who are disorganized. Not united in their goals. Prone to infighting and conflict. While the good guys see a common goal and are usually united in trying to achieve it. Wait, did I get it wrong? Does that mean RWBY are really the bad guys and Salem and crew are the good? ;)
Ironwood vs Watts is probably my favorite fight in the series you have two types of smarts going against each other Watts a book smart and Ironwood a battle smart fighter going against each other and another fun little detail Watts counting his bullets also helped Ironwood keep track of his bullets as well this is could be perhaps Watts very little knowledge in battle experience while Ironwood has fought for a while now
@@bullmoosevelt4495 yup, really dumb. It's established in story that outlier villages are often wiped out because they couldn't afford decent Huntsmen and Huntresses. Ren's hometown, for example. I really dislike how the narrative derides military discipline, order, and loyalty while glamorizing what is technically a mercenary system.
@@Napstablooky true, just a fictional narrative device to keep track of fewer characters. And some writers even acknowledge how the "adventurer system" is really a mercenary market that neglects the poor. Goblin Slayer, for instance.
What the reason exactly? Why do you need dangerous individuals(huntsman) without any sort of control, who can do whatever they want, out of military structure? . Following orders is not something bad - this how any military organization work, because military is not about "democracy". RWBY are just act like a dumbass. Bunch of cheeky kids without any kind of responsibility. Fight Salem head on while your army is exosted and your defence sistem out is stupid(actually it is suicide move). . Retreat and regroup is one and only logical solution(at least in real life logic)
While damarin has the right idea about the ways the amity platforms work, they're not exactly like super Mario Galaxy. The lights on the platforms switch between white and purple depending on whether their gravity field is turned on so when ironwood would start floating away from the platform it's because watts turned off the gravity on the "floor" and turned the "top" one on
I love how ominous and powerful they portray Salem in this episode, like with her slow movements and her attempt to manipulate Ironwood with a soft more comforting voice, then that eerie shift to dropping the mom bomb on Ruby. Every decision they make just intensifies the effectiveness of Salem as the ultimate big bad
Fun Facts Fact 1: Ironwood losing his arm represents him losing another part of his Humanity. Fact 2: The first cut of this episode was 23 minutes and was deemed too long. As such, the crew had to scale it back, but they still felt they kept in everything that was needed to make the episode great. Fact 3: Initially, the Tyrian vs Qrow, Robyn, and Clover fight was going to be a chase that turns into a fight that turns into another chase. In this, Qrow would have been the only one that could keep up with Tyrian since he can transform into a bird. Qrow would land in front of Tyrian and say "that's enough," and Tyrian would ask, "are you able to talk when you're a bird or do you have to wait until you're a person to throw your one-liners?" Tyrian's lack of self-preservation would be shown even more. He would have run down an alley packed with Grimm and would just trust that he could have made it through. This fight is also a callback to the first Tyrian vs Qrow fight, where Ruby tried to be good back up for Qrow but was ineffective. Instead, this time has Robyn and Clover be effective and more experienced teammates. Fact 4: There was going to be more discussion of where Oscar was at the end of the episode. There was also a whole bit with the Ace-Ops and kids landing and receiving a handwritten note saying that they've been compromised instead of getting it by scroll, but it turned out to be too much. Fact 5: The scene with Ironwood talking to Team RWBY and him turning against them was the most important scene in the episode, and something that everything in Volume 7 has to build up to. Fact 6: Miles Luna stated it was about time Team RWBY and Salem met face to face.
Salem: *manifests as smoke* hello i heard it was time to scare the shit out of ironwood? Ruby: *glaring* uh no actually this is the scare the shit out of *you* session.
I still stand by the fact that ironwood fear and paronia was his downfall from here on.. maybe he wanted to genuinely save the few he could but it was shown earlier in this volume his genuine fear of Salem and how it could potentially cause him to make haste decisions.. it's the reason I feel rwby was most fearful to be upfront with him tbh that couple that with his semblance that emphasizes his determination... he was doomed the second they told him the truth about Salem
It was mostly frustration because everything he was doing to fight Salem kept backfiring and then he found out that rwby was manipulating him somewhat.
dude what volume 8 was trash the worst since volume 5 it was so fucking bad why do you think they're taking so long to make volume 9 its cause they know they cant have another screwup like that if they wanna preserve interest in the series it was the same with v5 it was awful so they put a ton of effort into v6 which turned out to be one of the best volumes
To clarify, he was talking about Pietro not Lionheart, Ironwood did not choose who became headmaster in other kingdoms(Admittedly that process is vague) and Leo ran the Academy in Mistral whilst Watts was an Atlas native. Watts was referring to what Pietro referred to earlier, when numerous Scientists were tasked to submit a Project and James picked Penny
Ironwood and RWBY both had valid points. Ironwood was coming at this from a more practical approach based on experience and the fact that he is a leader who's decisions affect the lives of thousands. RWBY were acting more from what hunstmen/huntresses aspire to be and that is champions of the people. BUT this is from the perspective of an idealist vs Ironwood's realist mentality. I think Ironwood's plan, while damning thousands to die, was the more achievable angle. The Ace Ops took most of the brunt of the battle damage, Atlas' army is stretched thin between fighting Grimm and evacing people and Salem herself is coming with who the hell knows how many Grimm in addition to probably the followers of hers who are currently absentee. If Ruby were to have come clean at the best possible time, it'd have been in E4 when he made them all official Hunstmen/Huntresses as after that point, what reason was there to distrust Ironwood? The mood was calm, relations were at their peak, but nope... Ruby chose to keep Salem's immortality secret.
Ironwood was the best part of these last 2 seasons. And RWBY says they are right? The guy is a leader with decades of experience with the larger picture in mind. Bht no, team RWBY has to go against the military and academy leader...sure. Lets listen to a tram with under 2 years of experience...
@@BdelaCAS mans was willing to destroy an entire city full of civilians. His desperation and his semblance put him on a one way vision. Of course this made team RWBY try to do a more humane way cuz,, well, they're the protagonists. They should have a "better" moral compass storywise But still made me a teensy bit weird by his sudden change
Did you notice that the arm Ironwood "degloved" was his only human arm? His right arm is metal, and his left arm - the arm closest to his heart - was flesh. The tinman is losing his heart.
@@dylanjohnson4858 I mean...if you think about it it's true Maria is very pessimistic and kinda crazy and YOLO Tyrian is a psycho...enough said And Yang isn't as bright and happy go lucky as she used to be in the past
In Mikey’s defense the dude looks like he didn’t get enough sleep again and was passing out again. Definitely should have waited till Suraj was back to do this episode.
"I think Clover is having doubts." Yeah....Clover's whole thing is he follows orders no matter what, that is his defining character trait. Friendship and human feelings are secondary so yeah...keep an eye on that.
The cool thing is, when you go back and watch Ch.10, during the propaganda broadcast with Ironwood & Robyn, they carefully edit out of frame the times where Ironwood is lying.
I like Damarin but I think his thoughts on Ironwood and AceOps are a little confused. I don't think he understands Ironwood's paranoia. I feels like he should explain why he thought Ironwood sucked a couple episodes ago when the grimm started invading Mantle, cuz it doesn't really make sense to blame him that harshly. He obviously ignored fortifying Mantle's defenses and talking to Robyn which was reasonable to criticize, but it's not a large enough flaw to wholeheartedly claim he sucks imo. But now that Ironwood has become an antagonist to the heroes, Damarin feels justified in his dislike for Ironwood, which doesn't add up. Similarly with the AceOps. They're not villains now, they're antagonists and became that way BECAUSE of the Watts, Tyrian, Cinder, and Salem; the villains.
I'd just like to say, look at this from Ironwood's perspective. Salem is on her way and she can't be killed. Ironwood's just learned that Cinder is in Atlas, and that RWBY lied to him on several occasions. His armies and supplies are exhausted. At this point, taking Atlas and escaping may seem like cowardice, but it's also the only way he can think of to protect as many people as possible. Strategically, Ironwood's plan is the best chance they have to keep the people and the relics out of salem's hands.
I personally think this is the moment where Ironwood's semblance, Mettle, activated. For those who dont know what it does, its a passive semblance that sets his mind on saving humanity with all his might no matter the sacrifice. It leads to quite a few judgement mistakes and sadly the only time its truly turned off after it activates itself is when his aura hits zero
I think Damarin is being a little too rigid in his dislike of the Ace-Ops and Ironwood. Everything we've seen has shown that the Ace-Ops aren't doing this because they are bad people. They are simply following a military chain of command like they were trained to do, and putting their trust in their commanding officer for better or worse. As for Ironwood, Pietro said in the very first episode of the volume that his paranoia and fear has influenced his line of thinking since the fall of Beacon and now he is backed into a corner with seemingly only one way out, plus his semblance 'Mettle' makes things harder since it essentially hardens Ironwood's willpower so he is laser focused on what he is doing at all times. So if he thinks using the Staff of Creation to raise Atlas is a good idea, his semblance will increase his will to see it done.
And a lot of his paranoia turned out to be right. There were Team Salem infiltrators. They did attempt to sabotage the Tower the moment they found out about it, etc. His plans were a "work on paper, if you were the main character" type. The closed border would've worked if not specifically for Watts and Neo. The Dust stockpile would've been handy for the battles to come. etc
Yep, irownood vol7 is the most relatable nuanced, and flawed characters ever its great, vol 8 is a shell of what the writers actually thought they were going for
"Weiss" is the German word for "white" and saying it with a V is the German pronunciation, so it's an easy error to consistently make if you're familiar with the actual language in an everyday context.
@@beary523 in law, there's a term called "prima facie" that comes from Latin. I'm used to pronouncing it PREEM-a FAHK-ee-ay because I learned Latin before going to law school, but everyone else will say PRYM-a FAYSH-ya which is an anglicized form. I know the second version is easier to recognize, but it's hard to just tell myself to pronounce something in a way that's basically wrong. It's entirely possible that Damarin pronounces Weiss that way because it's the right way to pronounce it. They may have been watching this show for a while, but a millennial fluent in German may have been speaking it for decades. Two years isn't all that long in comparison.
@@DigiCount Vice may be the proper way to say it, but if the show says Wice, you say Wice when watching the show. That’s how it’s pronounced in the show
@@DigiCount that's a reach. My childhood friend's name is Mabel which in the US is pronounced May-ble, in Spanish is Mah-bel. I don't get them mixed up.
Best episode in V7 imo. Great fight between Ironwood and Watts. Messed up that Ironwood had to finally learn the truth about the lamp, while Ruby was attempting to trash talk Salem. Also, it took only one short 7 word sentence from Salem to totally break Ruby down to a crumpled mess on the floor.
Oscar told Ironwood everything back at the Wiess estate. We can safely assume Oscar told him about the lamp as well as Salem immortality. The only surprise for Ironwood here was Yang's betrayal, leaking information to Robyn.
Sorry but no. The ONLY thing Oscar told Ironwood about was that Salem was Immortal. There were several other things that were just as important, or more so that, the kiddies lied about and/or kept from Ironwood. - Ironwood did not know that the Lamp had another question left. (He stated as much in his angry tirade.) - Ironwood did not know that Ruby used a question to learn about Salem's real deal. And that there was actually another one left. (Ruby lied.) - Ironwood was never told about the other information revealed by the Lamp, like Oz's involvement and the true nature of the world. - Ironwood did not know that Yang and Blake willfully revealed secret tactical information to Robyn. Or that they even met with her and let her go. - When Ironwood asked what happened to Oz in 7x2, Ruby deflected (Lied) and said they did know what happened to cause Oz to go away. Obviously trying to avoid getting into a conversation about what they learned from the Lamp. - Ruby never told Ironwood that she has a Grimm WMD in her eyeballs. (Might have come in handy in the fight against Grimm.) - You can throw in the fact that Yang has not revealed to anyone that her mother is one of four of the most powerful beings on the planet. And she is the one who opened the vault. (Perhaps not an important detail right now, but just though I would throw that in with all the other secrets the team is keeping.) So yeah, Ironwood really got screwed over by the kiddies keeping him in the dark. Pretty much railroading him into this position. He was already on edge, desperate to be able to trust someone. He was a powder keg with a smoldering flame on top. But instead of pouring water on it to put it out, the kids poured gasoline. Ironwood was no saint. He is a military general first. And he was trying to do the best he could with what he was given in order to save the world. He certainly didn't need to be put in a box like that. He was trying to work with the "heroes" up till this point. Too bad they didn't try to work with him. BTW, If it is not shown on screen, there is (usually) no assuming that something took place. At least with highly important things or key points.
@@nexis1293 Not rlly, I'd rather take him who yelled the truth and disclosed everything showing trust to team rwby while they just went behind his back multiple times.
@@nexis1293 then in your opinion who would you say is the best, because while I can't say he's the best-written anymore I find it hard to see an alternative
@@TheHollowTiger True but sometimes it's for the greater good, going with trying to save who we have already instead of risking everybody in a fight we DONT KNOW we can win isn't evil, it's logical. I mean what's the point of saving the others if Salem kills the winter maiden, and gets TWO RELICS.
@@dylanjohnson4858 It's not logic, it's fear. Ironwood is a man ruled by his emotions. He pretends to be logical, but it's fear, anger, arrogance, pride, and distrust at the core of all his choices throughout the show. Sacrificing thousands shouldn't be the first option, but he wasn't even open to thinking of other options. It's how he's always been, his way or the high way. That's not logic, that's not the "greater good." It's what's easy, and protects Atlas at the expense of everything else. Just because you can't save everyone isn't an excuse not to try. Ironwood had already given up because trying to save HIS OWN people was too hard. He was already sacrificing Mantle's safety for Atlas's comfort, and once it was too inconvenient decided it was necessary for it to die for Atlas's survival.
Everyone seems to ignore the facts Ruby and all of team RWBY made a huge mistake and I agree. Ironwood was just doing his best with what he knew I agree but people seem to leave out everything else. How do you know Ironwood wouldn't have gotten worse immediately after he found out the truth like now, but how do we know he would be Ruby's mistake not trusting him. But same to ironwood he wouldn't trust the thoughts of how the people he was lying to felt. Both of them made mistakes but they were only doing their best. What ifs are kinda meaningless at this point. Stop saying its all Ruby's fault and stop saying its Ironwoods fault. We also constantly get mad at Ruby for not telling the truth but ironwood told lots of lies too.
Ironwood's black gun has gravity dust in it, using it like Ruby did in the red trailer. It was common knowledge that Watts had been disgraced, even Raven knew it; there's no way he commited treason because Ironwood chose Pietro's (not Lionheart, where did that come from?) top secret project over his. I maintain my headcanon that he was caught doing illegal aura experiments - probably on faunus - and he faked his death to escape judgement. It would have made the aura tech even more controversial... I've mentioned Operation Paper Clip before, right? Meanwhile, based on previous experience, Qrow keeps Tyrian off-balance with punches and kicks. Robyn seems useless until that trick bolt, good for her... except spilling to Ironwood that she knew about the Amity project is about to bite our heroes in their butts, so she's relegated back to idiot. One black queen and it all falls apart. Cinder not only triggers Ironwood, allowing her to follow Winter to the maiden, just like she did Pyrrha; she also, unwittingly, sets the general up before Salem knocks his sanity out of the park. (I still think she knows everything Cinder has been up to, through that grimm arm.) Ironwood's fall throughout this scene is excellently done, and I love the Aliens vibe in the soundtrack as Salem freaks out Ruby. This chapter is the highlight of the volume. It's a shame everything goes to shit after this...
Actually, Salem, Watts and Tyrian had no idea that Cinder was even in Atlas until Ruby told the former, thinking that it was Salem who sent her when in fact it was Cinder acting on her own plans. Everything Cinder did in this episode was her own decision, separate from Salem and co. It was Cinder who came up with the plan to use the Black Queen symbol to shatter Ironwood's confidence and thus shatter the unity and cohesiveness of the heroes. It's cool to see Cinder find some further use for her "Black Queen" persona which the world came to know her as after the Fall of Beacon, which she also instigated. Also, even though Salem can probably sense whether Cinder is alive or not through Cinder's Shadow Hand (the official name for it), that's most likely all she can really do with it besides remotely causing harm to it. This is evident in the fact that (SPOILERS for Volume 7) in the premier episode of Volume 8, Salem is shown to have no idea whether or not Cinder succeeded in her mission, and was visibly struck when Cinder revealed that she had acquired the Relic of Knowledge.
I've always been of the opinion that one of the show's biggest problems is time, given five or six more episodes a volume especially this volume would have done a lot for characterization given that they just introduced a new setting but we still saw next to nothing about the actual city of Atlas, it's people, or anything about the AceOPS or Ironwood's backstory and he's not even a new character.
I personally found ironwood's turn kinda radical and too abrupt, but the whole volume is probably the best of whole series so far. I'm gonna give a hot take and say it was better than 3, by a hair.
Team RWBY didn’t offer a counter plan. They just said “No we’ll stop you.” in a situation where they’re asking someone to try save everyone or die losing it all.
well it only took most of the season, ignoring the context, ignoring the fact that ironwood isnt entirly wrong and ignoring that rwby has defintley screwed things up as well bet Damarin was finally right but hey a broken clock is correct at least twice a day
I mean, give a rest to the poor man under stress~ XD Who are the traitors if team RWBY lied and have done stuff behind his back? Even if it was for good intentions Also that our protagonist team try to do the cliche idea of "I will save everyone" which is impossible from the point of view for a realistic and prepared person like militars
Yup. I like making a comparison to Avengers: Infinity War. Thanos didn't win just because he was stronger. Every faction opposing him refused to make sacrifices until it was too late to matter. Sad, but true.
I'll still support the heroes, but man they should've been straight with ironwood. They were trying to be different from Ozpin, but they're doing the same he did to them.
Not sure if you guys know this, I barely get the gist of it myself because I don’t think they expressly mention it in the show. But Ironwood has a semblance called Mettle. From my understanding, it basically hardens his heart. He bypasses emotion and makes tough decisions that he believes is logical for the greater good, whether the actions are ethical and morally correct or not. He’s not being misled, it’s just that under all this pressure of trying to protect a kingdom, re-establish communications, and keep an immortal being from winning… well he’s first and foremost a general with the personality of one. If it’s to win or keep the enemy from winning the over all war, he’ll do it no matter what.
Its never stated in the show but the creators went on the record that Ironwood's semblance is called "Mettle" and is superhuman determination, once he puts his mind on something he can endure anything to achieve it, thats how he was able to push himself to fuck up his arm to free himself.
To all who do not know. Ironwood's actions in Volumes 7 and 8 are too harsh mainly because of his SEMBLANCE, METTLE. He unlocked it fully during this time. It is passive, through it Ironwood is able to mentally push through and cope with controversial and difficult decisions. It essentially allows him to mentally handwave any side effects of his actions. He appears Emotionless when his semblance is active. No one knew about it, even himself.
I dislike people making this a 'Both Sides' thing...I really do not think it is? Or at the very least, the flaws of either side are nowhere near comparable. James actions are the Bulk of the reason any of this even happened, its because of him not changing Mantle's security codes and the political Crisis in the kingdom he caused allowed Watts to manipulate Public Opinion. The next episode makes it clear it is not just about Mantle, but James is abandoning the rest of the Planet. And Volume 8 displays that James was wrong, they had time to evacuate Mantle and could have found a way to Launch Amity if James had just listened
Loads of people ignoring the fact that a lot of this happens because Ironwood has been sacrificing the safety of Mantle this entire time (aka, the reason they decide they can't trust Ironwood in the first place).
Bad guy? Ironwood's the protagonist in this situation. lol. The same thing that team RWBY got pissy about with Ozpin is EXACTLY what they did to Ironwood. They're being selfish and hypocritical in the matter because Ruby thinks there's always a possible solution with no consequences, but you can't blame them because they're still kids. The reality of the situation is that Ironwood was right to be paranoid because all of his fears eventually came true. They were compromised. Once the infiltrators knew of the Tower, Watts went straight for it. Cinder would head straight for the Winter Maiden. Yes. Leaving an entire city full of people to die would've been tragic, but with Salem already on the way, saving them would've been a moot point because she would've ended up with the staff, the lamp, ANOTHER Maiden, and killed them all anyway. Ironwood's plan would've at least bought them some time.
You know this would have all been avoidable if Ruby had told ironwood everything from the start lol. Also here comes the downward spiral called ironwood becoming the villain
I think ironwood semblance isn't canon to quote nick fury: 'I recognize that the council has made a decision, but given that its a stupid ass decision I've elected to ignore it."
Watching basic reactors compare to the reviewers who know the rwby show in and out just shows how simple minded people who praise the story unconditionally.
Ironwood was definitely not meant to lead. On the surface he would seem perfect, but seeing him under stress and in a state of panic he doesn’t make the best decisions, becomes self absorbed and way too paranoid to think with reason. When it came down to it the power went straight to his head, he abused it, made all the wrong decisions and was willing to sacrifice so many lives needlessly. When it comes to characters he’s a great example to show how to write a heroic character and turn him into an antagonist using a realistic approach to his declining mental health.
If you think that "we're gonna take this nuanced character, who made rational decisions, and turn him cartoonishly evil just because" is a great example of Fall from Grace then idk what to tell you
@@Titanfell-d3i his decisions were never rational. All of his decisions were based on emotion. And his decisions throughout the Atlas arc were no different.
@@Lauren-zx3gx "I said so, so it must be true". But the reality is that until Volume 8, Ironwood's actions are rational He doesn't trust Ozpin because he believes that Oz hides info from them and ultimately is correct because it is what Ozpin does His decision to bring army to Vail makes sense, city suffers from terrorist attacks while hosting basically Olympics. It's a good decision especially since his robots were helping the city during the Breach. The only reason it backfired was because literally nobody could have predicted Watts is alive and works for Salem He closes borders because he knows Salem will try to infiltrate his kingdom. That's what she does He prioritizes telling the world about Salem because the sooner she is revealed the sooner they can cooperate to defeat her because this threat is too large for other Kingdoms to ignore. They have to work together and it's better to do this before Salem launches attack herself. Which she does Him declaring Martial Law is a given when a literal doom and apocalypse are coming to the country He prioritizes Atlas because it has Maiden, Penny, two relics and most of technology. Nobody gives him better plan btw. Again, most of his decisions can be easily rationalized by using logic. In fact most people who hate Ironwood blame him for lacking emotions and not caring about others, like people of Mantle
Ironwood's semblance is why he does whatever it takes to complete an objective, it turns him into a robot basically with no moral compass if he's pushed too far. its why part of his body is probably robotic because of how many times in his life he sacrificed his own flesh to do something like he did in the fight against watts, he scarred his entire arm to get out of the laser trap in order to stop watts.
Fun Fact: The song during the fight was sung by Caleb Hyles, who is a fan or RWBY and sings covers of RWBY songs
EDIT: And yes, Watts was counting his bullets
Caleb is awesome, he also does a cover with Casey Lee Williams for Red Like Roses part 1 & 2, my favourite pieces from the series.
@@bmgfrosty7089 Hero feat Caleb Hyles
6:05 Watts was talking about Pietro (Penny's dad). Ironwood chose to fund Pietro's project over Watt's, which led to Penny being built.
6:10 *”Is he talking about Lionheart!?”*
I swear sometimes these guys have the memory of a goldfish 😂
Yeah, that was hurting me a bit ngl
RIGHT like it was OBVIOUS who he was talking about 😂😂😂
@@shakyragriffin7557 Dr. Polendina told the whole story in S07E07. With the Watts face reveal when he finished. The Normies, being "professional" reactors, watch too many shows at the same time to be able to remember details. Like when they forgot about Landing Strategies even though they were shown earlier in the season. They trade quantity for quality on their channel.
@@celticwolff5429 *V7E7
@@Cazammaf V7C7*
Ruby: "we'll stop you"
Salem: "ok. Here's my retort: "Your Mother"
Ruby: 😢😢😢
Literally went "Joe Mama"
To be fair imagine talking to the great evil of the world and instead of what you could have possibly expected, they say "yo mama so dead she-"
He's talking about choosing Penny's dad over him I think.
That is the case, yes.
"ironwood senpai, never noticed me!" that is what I hear from watts
Fun Fact: This arena was using Gravity Dust as its main component, similar to how the other biomes in the tournament had themes like that. This stage was actually a concept for an arena in Volume 3 that was never used, so they brought it back and fleshed it out for this fight. Also the song is essentially Ironwood's theme song, and its awesome
Prepare yourselves for a LOT of very heated Ironwood discourse in your comment section now that his character arc is making itself known.
A point: Watts does not have ‘gravity rings,’ he has hacker rings and the arena they were fighting in was gravity-based. His rings allow him to manipulate technology, thus, he was turning the Gravity Dust platforms on and off at his leisure to toss Ironwood around. We see him use them to manipulate traffic signals to his advantage in an earlier episode.
I love the juxtaposition of the two scenes of Summer. In V6 the sun is shining and the music is hopeful, the camera moves toward Summer as she turns toward Ruby and she’s smiling. Ruby’s envisioning her as a light, a beacon of comfort. Here, the sky is grey and overcast, the music is this eerie screech, Summer is turning from Ruby as the camera moves away from her. She’s no longer that bright light, she’s just a painful memory, a reminder that she’s really gone.
And there's what sounds like a woman's scream when Ruby's eyes flash. I love the idea that Ruby's eyes are reacting while her brain tries not to overload with grief.
This is my favorite chapter in all of RWBY, sometimes rewatching other i think... "hmmm... may i like this one better", but no, every time i rewatch this episode i love it more and more.
One thing i love about the fight between Tyrian Vs Qrow/Clover/Robin is how the three of them work together, Qrow going for the close combat, robin controlling from long distance, and Clover mid/short distance fighting and keeping control of the tail at all times. Just beautiful.
About the argument of the Ace Ops against Team RWBY's reasons to do what they're doing, is pretty simple, Team RWBY are huntresses, the Ace Ops are soldiers, they have different mentalities on how to do things, and they're... as they've been all season, following orders.
I could honestly talk about every single scene in this chapter forever, but just wanted to mention one last thing; the visual of Ironwood walking away from his office while Ruby is at the desk, just... for some reason it really gets to me.
It’s even better when you binge this whole season. There’s some great foreshadowing I didn’t catch my first watch.
In chapter 2 after Elm apologizes to Ruby, Ruby says, “It’s fine, you guys were just following orders.”
And my favorite bit of foreshadowing, also in chapter 2, Oscar fumbling to figure out what to call Ironwood. And as we know at the end of the volume Ironwood let’s Oscar know what he should call him.
Please do go on
This is why I feel sooo bad for the people who stopped at volume 5
I feel like a lot of the complaints I hear for this volume is that it’s bad writing that Ruby lied but I think that’s a flaw on her character but not the writing
@@pumpkinwarrior7138 What a lot of people don't talk about is I think it's reasonable y they didn't tell Ironwood right away, from their perspective they had been betrayed by back to back 'leaders' of city's. First it was ozpin and them learning the truth about salem, then it was lionheart, and when they arrived in atlas/mantle they weren't loving how dictatory things were looking.
@@patricktorres1292 dont forget yangs the only one that stuck to her guns the whole way through and was like "okay I know its bad but we really should probably tell Ironwood now rather than later." Cause she knows exactly how it feels to have the people you trust most in life withhold shit from you on repeated occasions.
I love the interesting twist on Rwbys themes of unity and trust Salem trusted Watts and Tyrian who in turn trusted each other and although Cinder was out of the loop they where all unified in there goal to take down Atlas, contrast that with team Rwby and Ironwood who all let fear corrupt their decisions which only helped Salem further her advantage
And similarly, Salem, Watts and Tyrian had no idea that Cinder was even in Atlas until Ruby told the former, thinking that it was Salem who sent her when in fact it was Cinder acting on her own plans. It's cool that it was Cinder who came up with the plan to use the Black Queen symbol to shatter Ironwood's confidence and thus shatter the unity and cohesiveness of the heroes, completely separate from Salem and co. It's cool to see Cinder find some further use for her "Black Queen" persona which the world came to know her as after the Fall of Beacon, which she also instigated.
That was a good comparison!
Usually it's the bad guys who are disorganized. Not united in their goals. Prone to infighting and conflict. While the good guys see a common goal and are usually united in trying to achieve it.
Wait, did I get it wrong? Does that mean RWBY are really the bad guys and Salem and crew are the good? ;)
You may not like Watts, but he's still one of my favorite character, and this fight was just pure FIRE!
Ironwood vs Watts is probably my favorite fight in the series you have two types of smarts going against each other Watts a book smart and Ironwood a battle smart fighter going against each other and another fun little detail Watts counting his bullets also helped Ironwood keep track of his bullets as well this is could be perhaps Watts very little knowledge in battle experience while Ironwood has fought for a while now
Rana cranking the volume for rwby music is such a mood-
"Until Clover and Qrow have an openly out relationship, I don't trust them" LOL so funny!
Stop stabbing my poor heart😭
There’s a reason the other kingdoms have their huntsman and military separate.
The Ace ops are just good soldiers, who are just following orders.
Actually, the other kingdoms don't have a military, just huntsman, which is really dumb if you think about it.
@@bullmoosevelt4495 yeah, it’s one of those things that only work in fantasy.
@@bullmoosevelt4495 yup, really dumb. It's established in story that outlier villages are often wiped out because they couldn't afford decent Huntsmen and Huntresses. Ren's hometown, for example.
I really dislike how the narrative derides military discipline, order, and loyalty while glamorizing what is technically a mercenary system.
@@Napstablooky true, just a fictional narrative device to keep track of fewer characters. And some writers even acknowledge how the "adventurer system" is really a mercenary market that neglects the poor. Goblin Slayer, for instance.
What the reason exactly? Why do you need dangerous individuals(huntsman) without any sort of control, who can do whatever they want, out of military structure?
.
Following orders is not something bad - this how any military organization work, because military is not about "democracy". RWBY are just act like a dumbass. Bunch of cheeky kids without any kind of responsibility. Fight Salem head on while your army is exosted and your defence sistem out is stupid(actually it is suicide move).
.
Retreat and regroup is one and only logical solution(at least in real life logic)
6:18 He's talking about Penny's Dad.
While damarin has the right idea about the ways the amity platforms work, they're not exactly like super Mario Galaxy. The lights on the platforms switch between white and purple depending on whether their gravity field is turned on so when ironwood would start floating away from the platform it's because watts turned off the gravity on the "floor" and turned the "top" one on
I love how ominous and powerful they portray Salem in this episode, like with her slow movements and her attempt to manipulate Ironwood with a soft more comforting voice, then that eerie shift to dropping the mom bomb on Ruby. Every decision they make just intensifies the effectiveness of Salem as the ultimate big bad
Fun Facts
Fact 1: Ironwood losing his arm represents him losing another part of his Humanity.
Fact 2: The first cut of this episode was 23 minutes and was deemed too long. As such, the crew had to scale it back, but they still felt they kept in everything that was needed to make the episode great.
Fact 3: Initially, the Tyrian vs Qrow, Robyn, and Clover fight was going to be a chase that turns into a fight that turns into another chase. In this, Qrow would have been the only one that could keep up with Tyrian since he can transform into a bird. Qrow would land in front of Tyrian and say "that's enough," and Tyrian would ask, "are you able to talk when you're a bird or do you have to wait until you're a person to throw your one-liners?" Tyrian's lack of self-preservation would be shown even more. He would have run down an alley packed with Grimm and would just trust that he could have made it through.
This fight is also a callback to the first Tyrian vs Qrow fight, where Ruby tried to be good back up for Qrow but was ineffective. Instead, this time has Robyn and Clover be effective and more experienced teammates.
Fact 4: There was going to be more discussion of where Oscar was at the end of the episode. There was also a whole bit with the Ace-Ops and kids landing and receiving a handwritten note saying that they've been compromised instead of getting it by scroll, but it turned out to be too much.
Fact 5: The scene with Ironwood talking to Team RWBY and him turning against them was the most important scene in the episode, and something that everything in Volume 7 has to build up to.
Fact 6: Miles Luna stated it was about time Team RWBY and Salem met face to face.
6:17 He was referring to Pietro, Penny's dad
"Your mother said those words to me", That made me wanna cry too...!!
Salem: *manifests as smoke* hello i heard it was time to scare the shit out of ironwood?
Ruby: *glaring* uh no actually this is the scare the shit out of *you* session.
I still stand by the fact that ironwood fear and paronia was his downfall from here on.. maybe he wanted to genuinely save the few he could but it was shown earlier in this volume his genuine fear of Salem and how it could potentially cause him to make haste decisions.. it's the reason I feel rwby was most fearful to be upfront with him tbh that couple that with his semblance that emphasizes his determination... he was doomed the second they told him the truth about Salem
It was mostly frustration because everything he was doing to fight Salem kept backfiring and then he found out that rwby was manipulating him somewhat.
Bruh I can’t wait for you guys to watch next season. Just thinking about it gets me so hyped
I can wait, it was a trash volume.
dude what volume 8 was trash the worst since volume 5 it was so fucking bad why do you think they're taking so long to make volume 9 its cause they know they cant have another screwup like that if they wanna preserve interest in the series it was the same with v5 it was awful so they put a ton of effort into v6 which turned out to be one of the best volumes
To clarify, he was talking about Pietro not Lionheart, Ironwood did not choose who became headmaster in other kingdoms(Admittedly that process is vague) and Leo ran the Academy in Mistral whilst Watts was an Atlas native. Watts was referring to what Pietro referred to earlier, when numerous Scientists were tasked to submit a Project and James picked Penny
Ironwood and RWBY both had valid points. Ironwood was coming at this from a more practical approach based on experience and the fact that he is a leader who's decisions affect the lives of thousands.
RWBY were acting more from what hunstmen/huntresses aspire to be and that is champions of the people. BUT this is from the perspective of an idealist vs Ironwood's realist mentality. I think Ironwood's plan, while damning thousands to die, was the more achievable angle. The Ace Ops took most of the brunt of the battle damage, Atlas' army is stretched thin between fighting Grimm and evacing people and Salem herself is coming with who the hell knows how many Grimm in addition to probably the followers of hers who are currently absentee.
If Ruby were to have come clean at the best possible time, it'd have been in E4 when he made them all official Hunstmen/Huntresses as after that point, what reason was there to distrust Ironwood? The mood was calm, relations were at their peak, but nope... Ruby chose to keep Salem's immortality secret.
Ironwood's corruption arc is so good and so well-written, glad y'all are just as hooked as I was!
I didn’t like how abruptly they dove into it in volume 8, but pre volume 8 Ironwood is def my fave character in the show and superrrrrr well written
Ironwood was the best part of these last 2 seasons. And RWBY says they are right? The guy is a leader with decades of experience with the larger picture in mind. Bht no, team RWBY has to go against the military and academy leader...sure. Lets listen to a tram with under 2 years of experience...
I loved it too, the only downside is losing the ace-ops as allies, I really loved them as characters when the first showed up
@@BdelaCAS mans was willing to destroy an entire city full of civilians. His desperation and his semblance put him on a one way vision. Of course this made team RWBY try to do a more humane way cuz,, well, they're the protagonists. They should have a "better" moral compass storywise
But still made me a teensy bit weird by his sudden change
Iromwood sucks, well writen ?, lets just wait for V8
Did you notice that the arm Ironwood "degloved" was his only human arm? His right arm is metal, and his left arm - the arm closest to his heart - was flesh. The tinman is losing his heart.
Because having a metal body means you are less human, oh wait, Penny...
@@yiledute or yang, Maria, or heck tyrian all of them are less human because they have prosthetics,
@@dylanjohnson4858 I mean...if you think about it it's true
Maria is very pessimistic and kinda crazy and YOLO
Tyrian is a psycho...enough said
And Yang isn't as bright and happy go lucky as she used to be in the past
@@dylanjohnson4858 Don't forget Mercury too
Of course Dameron and Mike would be the idiots that just outright call Ironwood a bad guy at this point
In Mikey’s defense the dude looks like he didn’t get enough sleep again and was passing out again.
Definitely should have waited till Suraj was back to do this episode.
I knew they were going to be freaking out the further we got to the end of the volume.
"I think Clover is having doubts." Yeah....Clover's whole thing is he follows orders no matter what, that is his defining character trait. Friendship and human feelings are secondary so yeah...keep an eye on that.
Ah, the episode where we witness the Tin Man lose his heart.
The cool thing is, when you go back and watch Ch.10, during the propaganda broadcast with Ironwood & Robyn, they carefully edit out of frame the times where Ironwood is lying.
I like Damarin but I think his thoughts on Ironwood and AceOps are a little confused. I don't think he understands Ironwood's paranoia. I feels like he should explain why he thought Ironwood sucked a couple episodes ago when the grimm started invading Mantle, cuz it doesn't really make sense to blame him that harshly. He obviously ignored fortifying Mantle's defenses and talking to Robyn which was reasonable to criticize, but it's not a large enough flaw to wholeheartedly claim he sucks imo.
But now that Ironwood has become an antagonist to the heroes, Damarin feels justified in his dislike for Ironwood, which doesn't add up. Similarly with the AceOps. They're not villains now, they're antagonists and became that way BECAUSE of the Watts, Tyrian, Cinder, and Salem; the villains.
He better be back next episode, emotions gonna fly in ep 12
I disagree with almost everything damarin said about ironwood
I'd just like to say, look at this from Ironwood's perspective. Salem is on her way and she can't be killed. Ironwood's just learned that Cinder is in Atlas, and that RWBY lied to him on several occasions. His armies and supplies are exhausted. At this point, taking Atlas and escaping may seem like cowardice, but it's also the only way he can think of to protect as many people as possible. Strategically, Ironwood's plan is the best chance they have to keep the people and the relics out of salem's hands.
The singer is Caleb Hyles. He’s got a UA-cam channel.
I personally think this is the moment where Ironwood's semblance, Mettle, activated. For those who dont know what it does, its a passive semblance that sets his mind on saving humanity with all his might no matter the sacrifice. It leads to quite a few judgement mistakes and sadly the only time its truly turned off after it activates itself is when his aura hits zero
This is my favorite episode, because it solidifies Ironwood as the hero we deserve, and also the one Atlas needs right now.
This episode and the next one are PEAK
I think Damarin is being a little too rigid in his dislike of the Ace-Ops and Ironwood. Everything we've seen has shown that the Ace-Ops aren't doing this because they are bad people. They are simply following a military chain of command like they were trained to do, and putting their trust in their commanding officer for better or worse. As for Ironwood, Pietro said in the very first episode of the volume that his paranoia and fear has influenced his line of thinking since the fall of Beacon and now he is backed into a corner with seemingly only one way out, plus his semblance 'Mettle' makes things harder since it essentially hardens Ironwood's willpower so he is laser focused on what he is doing at all times. So if he thinks using the Staff of Creation to raise Atlas is a good idea, his semblance will increase his will to see it done.
And a lot of his paranoia turned out to be right. There were Team Salem infiltrators. They did attempt to sabotage the Tower the moment they found out about it, etc.
His plans were a "work on paper, if you were the main character" type. The closed border would've worked if not specifically for Watts and Neo. The Dust stockpile would've been handy for the battles to come. etc
One tiny little chess piece changed so much.
The predictions that you guys have are interesting, but you guys are not ready!!!
Oh how I’ve been waiting for you to get to this one…
Seeing ironwood lose his mind was hilarious along with his fangirls
Damn, you're not salty in the slightest.
I have such mixed feelings between end of V7 and V8 Ironwood. Definitely one of the best and worst handled charaters of the series.
Yep, irownood vol7 is the most relatable nuanced, and flawed characters ever its great, vol 8 is a shell of what the writers actually thought they were going for
Watts is talking about Pietro, Penny’s father. Seriously they were in a picture together in a few previous episodes 😒💧
The tin man vs DR watts
Now we need Sherlock VS the scarecrow
I have a question: why does he push so hard that her name is pronounced “Viess”? No one in the show has called her that. Not even her family
"Weiss" is the German word for "white" and saying it with a V is the German pronunciation, so it's an easy error to consistently make if you're familiar with the actual language in an everyday context.
@@emperordaniel9595 they’ve been watching RWBY for almost 2 years now. He is the only person that calls her vice, it’s intentional at this point
@@beary523 in law, there's a term called "prima facie" that comes from Latin. I'm used to pronouncing it PREEM-a FAHK-ee-ay because I learned Latin before going to law school, but everyone else will say PRYM-a FAYSH-ya which is an anglicized form. I know the second version is easier to recognize, but it's hard to just tell myself to pronounce something in a way that's basically wrong.
It's entirely possible that Damarin pronounces Weiss that way because it's the right way to pronounce it. They may have been watching this show for a while, but a millennial fluent in German may have been speaking it for decades. Two years isn't all that long in comparison.
@@DigiCount Vice may be the proper way to say it, but if the show says Wice, you say Wice when watching the show. That’s how it’s pronounced in the show
@@DigiCount that's a reach. My childhood friend's name is Mabel which in the US is pronounced May-ble, in Spanish is Mah-bel. I don't get them mixed up.
RWBY anime confirmed btw, lol
Trailer reaction? *copium*
@@Axxidous Japanese anime adaption of RWBY was just announced
I really hope they don't shit on Qrow after this
I just like how Damarin got proven right 😅😅
About?
It’s more like the show writer’s decide lying and secrets are only okay when the hero’s do it
I think the writers decided that context matters.
@@DigiCount Explain
So much more to come!
Why does he keep saying Weiss' name wrong? She's not German.
He has to be doing it on purpose. I mean he hears the characters and the other reactors say Weiss and he still says it differently 💀😭
Let's gooo IRONWOOD
Ironwood a joke
Ironwood chose Pietro over Watts
Mhm. The so-called "fat imbecile" vs. the "pain in the ass".
Happy Earth Day 🌎!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This reminds me of the distortion world from Pokemon Platinum.
I remember watching this and I was on iron woods wide tbh it’s just more logical
Best episode in V7 imo.
Great fight between Ironwood and Watts.
Messed up that Ironwood had to finally learn the truth about the lamp, while Ruby was attempting to trash talk Salem.
Also, it took only one short 7 word sentence from Salem to totally break Ruby down to a crumpled mess on the floor.
Oscar told Ironwood everything back at the Wiess estate. We can safely assume Oscar told him about the lamp as well as Salem immortality. The only surprise for Ironwood here was Yang's betrayal, leaking information to Robyn.
Sorry but no. The ONLY thing Oscar told Ironwood about was that Salem was Immortal.
There were several other things that were just as important, or more so that, the kiddies lied about and/or kept from Ironwood.
- Ironwood did not know that the Lamp had another question left. (He stated as much in his angry tirade.)
- Ironwood did not know that Ruby used a question to learn about Salem's real deal. And that there was actually another one left. (Ruby lied.)
- Ironwood was never told about the other information revealed by the Lamp, like Oz's involvement and the true nature of the world.
- Ironwood did not know that Yang and Blake willfully revealed secret tactical information to Robyn. Or that they even met with her and let her go.
- When Ironwood asked what happened to Oz in 7x2, Ruby deflected (Lied) and said they did know what happened to cause Oz to go away. Obviously trying to avoid getting into a conversation about what they learned from the Lamp.
- Ruby never told Ironwood that she has a Grimm WMD in her eyeballs. (Might have come in handy in the fight against Grimm.)
- You can throw in the fact that Yang has not revealed to anyone that her mother is one of four of the most powerful beings on the planet. And she is the one who opened the vault. (Perhaps not an important detail right now, but just though I would throw that in with all the other secrets the team is keeping.)
So yeah, Ironwood really got screwed over by the kiddies keeping him in the dark. Pretty much railroading him into this position. He was already on edge, desperate to be able to trust someone.
He was a powder keg with a smoldering flame on top. But instead of pouring water on it to put it out, the kids poured gasoline.
Ironwood was no saint. He is a military general first. And he was trying to do the best he could with what he was given in order to save the world. He certainly didn't need to be put in a box like that. He was trying to work with the "heroes" up till this point. Too bad they didn't try to work with him.
BTW, If it is not shown on screen, there is (usually) no assuming that something took place. At least with highly important things or key points.
Watts is mad at Ironwood becouse he chose Peatroes Penny Project over his own.
Ironwood is the best written character in this show by far
Good joke
@@nexis1293 Not rlly, I'd rather take him who yelled the truth and disclosed everything showing trust to team rwby while they just went behind his back multiple times.
@@dylanjohnson4858 He sucks , he sucks even more in V8. Most overrated character I've seen in any anime
@@nexis1293 then in your opinion who would you say is the best, because while I can't say he's the best-written anymore I find it hard to see an alternative
@@draykohunter6805Alternative to what, the standards in Rwby are so low
This season is great
They are not evil, they are following orders.
If your orders are evil, and you choose to follow them, guess what? A lot of evil stuff has been done under the justification of "following orders."
@@TheHollowTiger True but sometimes it's for the greater good, going with trying to save who we have already instead of risking everybody in a fight we DONT KNOW we can win isn't evil, it's logical. I mean what's the point of saving the others if Salem kills the winter maiden, and gets TWO RELICS.
@@dylanjohnson4858 It's not logic, it's fear. Ironwood is a man ruled by his emotions. He pretends to be logical, but it's fear, anger, arrogance, pride, and distrust at the core of all his choices throughout the show. Sacrificing thousands shouldn't be the first option, but he wasn't even open to thinking of other options. It's how he's always been, his way or the high way. That's not logic, that's not the "greater good." It's what's easy, and protects Atlas at the expense of everything else.
Just because you can't save everyone isn't an excuse not to try. Ironwood had already given up because trying to save HIS OWN people was too hard. He was already sacrificing Mantle's safety for Atlas's comfort, and once it was too inconvenient decided it was necessary for it to die for Atlas's survival.
Everyone seems to ignore the facts Ruby and all of team RWBY made a huge mistake and I agree. Ironwood was just doing his best with what he knew I agree but people seem to leave out everything else. How do you know Ironwood wouldn't have gotten worse immediately after he found out the truth like now, but how do we know he would be Ruby's mistake not trusting him. But same to ironwood he wouldn't trust the thoughts of how the people he was lying to felt. Both of them made mistakes but they were only doing their best. What ifs are kinda meaningless at this point. Stop saying its all Ruby's fault and stop saying its Ironwoods fault. We also constantly get mad at Ruby for not telling the truth but ironwood told lots of lies too.
The tinman without a heart
Ironwood's black gun has gravity dust in it, using it like Ruby did in the red trailer.
It was common knowledge that Watts had been disgraced, even Raven knew it; there's no way he commited treason because Ironwood chose Pietro's (not Lionheart, where did that come from?) top secret project over his. I maintain my headcanon that he was caught doing illegal aura experiments - probably on faunus - and he faked his death to escape judgement. It would have made the aura tech even more controversial... I've mentioned Operation Paper Clip before, right? Meanwhile, based on previous experience, Qrow keeps Tyrian off-balance with punches and kicks. Robyn seems useless until that trick bolt, good for her... except spilling to Ironwood that she knew about the Amity project is about to bite our heroes in their butts, so she's relegated back to idiot.
One black queen and it all falls apart. Cinder not only triggers Ironwood, allowing her to follow Winter to the maiden, just like she did Pyrrha; she also, unwittingly, sets the general up before Salem knocks his sanity out of the park. (I still think she knows everything Cinder has been up to, through that grimm arm.) Ironwood's fall throughout this scene is excellently done, and I love the Aliens vibe in the soundtrack as Salem freaks out Ruby.
This chapter is the highlight of the volume. It's a shame everything goes to shit after this...
Actually, Salem, Watts and Tyrian had no idea that Cinder was even in Atlas until Ruby told the former, thinking that it was Salem who sent her when in fact it was Cinder acting on her own plans. Everything Cinder did in this episode was her own decision, separate from Salem and co.
It was Cinder who came up with the plan to use the Black Queen symbol to shatter Ironwood's confidence and thus shatter the unity and cohesiveness of the heroes. It's cool to see Cinder find some further use for her "Black Queen" persona which the world came to know her as after the Fall of Beacon, which she also instigated.
Also, even though Salem can probably sense whether Cinder is alive or not through Cinder's Shadow Hand (the official name for it), that's most likely all she can really do with it besides remotely causing harm to it. This is evident in the fact that (SPOILERS for Volume 7) in the premier episode of Volume 8, Salem is shown to have no idea whether or not Cinder succeeded in her mission, and was visibly struck when Cinder revealed that she had acquired the Relic of Knowledge.
I've always been of the opinion that one of the show's biggest problems is time, given five or six more episodes a volume especially this volume would have done a lot for characterization given that they just introduced a new setting but we still saw next to nothing about the actual city of Atlas, it's people, or anything about the AceOPS or Ironwood's backstory and he's not even a new character.
Ironwood isn’t really in the wrong, I understand his decision
I personally found ironwood's turn kinda radical and too abrupt, but the whole volume is probably the best of whole series so far. I'm gonna give a hot take and say it was better than 3, by a hair.
Interesting. My personal favourite Volume so far is probably the current latest: 8.
Easily in my top 3 fights for this show, everything was just so well done, from the music, the camera work, and just sheer cool factor.
Team RWBY didn’t offer a counter plan. They just said “No we’ll stop you.” in a situation where they’re asking someone to try save everyone or die losing it all.
well it only took most of the season, ignoring the context, ignoring the fact that ironwood isnt entirly wrong and ignoring that rwby has defintley screwed things up as well bet Damarin was finally right but hey a broken clock is correct at least twice a day
I think he is atleast mostly wrong
Very excited for the winter vs cinder fight!
Winter _AND_ Penny vs. Cinder. Let's not understate the Dark Maiden. XD
Love this fight
I mean, give a rest to the poor man under stress~ XD
Who are the traitors if team RWBY lied and have done stuff behind his back? Even if it was for good intentions
Also that our protagonist team try to do the cliche idea of "I will save everyone" which is impossible from the point of view for a realistic and prepared person like militars
Yup. I like making a comparison to Avengers: Infinity War. Thanos didn't win just because he was stronger. Every faction opposing him refused to make sacrifices until it was too late to matter. Sad, but true.
I'll still support the heroes, but man they should've been straight with ironwood. They were trying to be different from Ozpin, but they're doing the same he did to them.
Not sure if you guys know this, I barely get the gist of it myself because I don’t think they expressly mention it in the show. But Ironwood has a semblance called Mettle. From my understanding, it basically hardens his heart. He bypasses emotion and makes tough decisions that he believes is logical for the greater good, whether the actions are ethical and morally correct or not. He’s not being misled, it’s just that under all this pressure of trying to protect a kingdom, re-establish communications, and keep an immortal being from winning… well he’s first and foremost a general with the personality of one. If it’s to win or keep the enemy from winning the over all war, he’ll do it no matter what.
Its never stated in the show but the creators went on the record that Ironwood's semblance is called "Mettle" and is superhuman determination, once he puts his mind on something he can endure anything to achieve it, thats how he was able to push himself to fuck up his arm to free himself.
Ironwood was right.
To all who do not know. Ironwood's actions in Volumes 7 and 8 are too harsh mainly because of his SEMBLANCE, METTLE.
He unlocked it fully during this time.
It is passive, through it Ironwood is able to mentally push through and cope with controversial and difficult decisions. It essentially allows him to mentally handwave any side effects of his actions.
He appears Emotionless when his semblance is active.
No one knew about it, even himself.
Wow you're very observant i never realized that, I think i like Itonwood even more now.
Tyrion Callows was former Special Ops on Atlas too, he was just unhinged and psychotic
He was?
@@decodelifehacker3446 No but it could explain how he is so good at fighting, interesting theory.
@@dylanjohnson4858 ah alright I was wondering how the hell I missed that little tidbit
Se prendió está mierda 👌👌👌
8:05 "For Atlas, James?"
I dislike people making this a 'Both Sides' thing...I really do not think it is? Or at the very least, the flaws of either side are nowhere near comparable. James actions are the Bulk of the reason any of this even happened, its because of him not changing Mantle's security codes and the political Crisis in the kingdom he caused allowed Watts to manipulate Public Opinion. The next episode makes it clear it is not just about Mantle, but James is abandoning the rest of the Planet. And Volume 8 displays that James was wrong, they had time to evacuate Mantle and could have found a way to Launch Amity if James had just listened
Loads of people ignoring the fact that a lot of this happens because Ironwood has been sacrificing the safety of Mantle this entire time (aka, the reason they decide they can't trust Ironwood in the first place).
There's no way any reasonable person expected Salem wouldn't attack as soon she got there
@@draykohunter6805 They literally had a force field
Bad guy? Ironwood's the protagonist in this situation. lol. The same thing that team RWBY got pissy about with Ozpin is EXACTLY what they did to Ironwood. They're being selfish and hypocritical in the matter because Ruby thinks there's always a possible solution with no consequences, but you can't blame them because they're still kids. The reality of the situation is that Ironwood was right to be paranoid because all of his fears eventually came true. They were compromised. Once the infiltrators knew of the Tower, Watts went straight for it. Cinder would head straight for the Winter Maiden. Yes. Leaving an entire city full of people to die would've been tragic, but with Salem already on the way, saving them would've been a moot point because she would've ended up with the staff, the lamp, ANOTHER Maiden, and killed them all anyway. Ironwood's plan would've at least bought them some time.
"And I think the right thing to do, is stand our ground"
....... and all die for no reason, likely signing the death certificate of humanity.
You know this would have all been avoidable if Ruby had told ironwood everything from the start lol. Also here comes the downward spiral called ironwood becoming the villain
black clover plsss
Ironwood's semblance is really scary
I think ironwood semblance isn't canon to quote nick fury: 'I recognize that the council has made a decision, but given that its a stupid ass decision I've elected to ignore it."
@@dylanjohnson4858 Ya it's never been announced in the show that's true but it's pretty obvious
@@dylanjohnson4858 Well, it was stated by the creators, so Ironwood's Semblance is canon.
Watching basic reactors compare to the reviewers who know the rwby show in and out just shows how simple minded people who praise the story unconditionally.
KGF MOVIE REACTION PLEASE.
Ironwood was definitely not meant to lead. On the surface he would seem perfect, but seeing him under stress and in a state of panic he doesn’t make the best decisions, becomes self absorbed and way too paranoid to think with reason. When it came down to it the power went straight to his head, he abused it, made all the wrong decisions and was willing to sacrifice so many lives needlessly. When it comes to characters he’s a great example to show how to write a heroic character and turn him into an antagonist using a realistic approach to his declining mental health.
He is scared of salem😂😂
@@brandonkukumayeyi6048 a lot of people are. Lol
If you think that "we're gonna take this nuanced character, who made rational decisions, and turn him cartoonishly evil just because" is a great example of Fall from Grace then idk what to tell you
@@Titanfell-d3i his decisions were never rational. All of his decisions were based on emotion. And his decisions throughout the Atlas arc were no different.
@@Lauren-zx3gx "I said so, so it must be true". But the reality is that until Volume 8, Ironwood's actions are rational
He doesn't trust Ozpin because he believes that Oz hides info from them and ultimately is correct because it is what Ozpin does
His decision to bring army to Vail makes sense, city suffers from terrorist attacks while hosting basically Olympics. It's a good decision especially since his robots were helping the city during the Breach. The only reason it backfired was because literally nobody could have predicted Watts is alive and works for Salem
He closes borders because he knows Salem will try to infiltrate his kingdom. That's what she does
He prioritizes telling the world about Salem because the sooner she is revealed the sooner they can cooperate to defeat her because this threat is too large for other Kingdoms to ignore. They have to work together and it's better to do this before Salem launches attack herself. Which she does
Him declaring Martial Law is a given when a literal doom and apocalypse are coming to the country
He prioritizes Atlas because it has Maiden, Penny, two relics and most of technology. Nobody gives him better plan btw.
Again, most of his decisions can be easily rationalized by using logic. In fact most people who hate Ironwood blame him for lacking emotions and not caring about others, like people of Mantle
React to the serie All Of Us Are Dead
Chapter 12 man, chapter 12
Ironwood's semblance is why he does whatever it takes to complete an objective, it turns him into a robot basically with no moral compass if he's pushed too far. its why part of his body is probably robotic because of how many times in his life he sacrificed his own flesh to do something like he did in the fight against watts, he scarred his entire arm to get out of the laser trap in order to stop watts.
The best episode since Alone in the Woods. A really solid episode of a web series overall. Damn shame what followed it.
The game is nothing like this.
Here's when rwby tries to become injustice lol
Welp guess they're going to hate everyone except team rwby, ruby is LITERALLY a hypocrite 😑
How else are they gonna feel like doing these reactions? :p
@@Axel_Kasai touché TwT