This is why you have a process for everything, people. Everyone that wants to be a client goes through the same process. Any resistance to the process 'I'm sorry, it looks like this wouldn't be a good fit after all'.
Not all scam entangle in one week or one month. We got scammed by a client with which we worked for years. In the end he could not pay many bills. In 20 years this accumulated to more than 100k. So this can happen everywhere. And maybe it’s part of the job. I am still thinking a lot about it. And thank you for sharing the story. Very good narrated. And always good to have an image of the scammers. Cheers Peter
That's wild!! Soo many scams out there in different fields. Problem is they are getting better all the time so you have to do your homework and even then that doesn't guarantee you know everything.
Man, I hate to hear this Justin. Photographer's allow themselves to be disrespected. I used to LOVE getting jerked around by Fortune 500 companies that wanted to pay on a Net 30-60-90 day schedule. Sorry, payment on delivery and expenses up front. And fronting all the expenses for editorial work, which doesn't pay that great to begin with, is ridiculous. If your answer is "That's how the industry works" change it. Or don't participate.
The rule of thumb is always get paid upfront, as well as make sure the person you're talking to is legit, or at least someone with an online footprint. Otherwise pass.
I'm good at spotting scams. I do a lot of researchinvolving ip addresses in email headers and ip checks of incoming phone calls to my cell phone, etc. If I am reasonably sure it's a scam, I will mention that I also work as an intergenerational analyst. If the vanish, it was a scam unless the scammer is a foreign intel operative which is a whole other scam.
@AskMOTT The actual process is easy. You research ant names and addresses of an unknown client. If they work for a certain publication or company, look them up in the corporate directory and pop them off an email about the business arrangement. If they are in the dark or don't respond, the scammer is impersonating them. I immediately get suspicious if the 'costomer' wants money from me or wants me to foot any or all of tge various sundries. That usually means scam time or some other motive. I've been known to give as far as have customers checked out by their local authorities or their state intelligence agencies. A little bit of paranoia is a healthy thing. 😁
The trouble is when Psychological damage is done it is irreversible. You remain permanently scarred mentally. I despise the Liars and the Cheats of this world. The best way to look at it is to know that in the end Karma always wins. It will catch up with them... in the end.
Sorry, what? Work for a heritage/government project, the government isn't covering the cost and you have to oay the driver? That makes no sense, was rhere a zoom call? Face to face meeting? Discussion wirh the team behind it? A project of this scope and scale wouldn't happen unless there was a briefing with rhe ministry or department involved. Even if the airfare was a reimbursement after the job, there would at rhe very least be a 25% fee upfront. I don't know any serious professionals who would take a job without that. Especially because wuch projects tend to stall and can get shelved half way through. Because organisations can pivot and change their marketing strategy. Also because the photographer 's fee and travel expenses are a drop in the bucket, compared to the overall cost of rhe project. Flying the photographer and marketing team or at least the art director all over rhe place. Booking hotels, blocking historic and tourist sites for rhe specific shots agreed upon for that hour or two. If there are villages you've got to photograph, those need to be organised and set up for rhe camera. This is clearly aimed at someone overly eager and inexperienced. If i call you and ask you to photograph my hotel and ill pay you back the expenses after the job, would you even consider me a serious client? As much as it's a photographic opportunity, its a business deal and you wouldn't move forward without a valid contract and some sort of financial exchange. I would probably fall for something like this within my first 3-5 years as a freelancer. Clients can change their mind at any time, if they don't get along with the photographer, if there arw disagreements, etc... maybe they aim higher than they're able to facilitate. So clients can rake a U-turn if and when they realise they've bitten more than they can chew. Inexperienced marketing team, art director or vastly underestimating the budget needed for the job. So change it to a studio shoot or end it within they amount the can afford. So there always has ro be a solid transaction to show how serious the client is. Otherwise they can always call that relative with an slr or smartphone to do it for them instead.
That’s not accurate at all, the project wasn’t for the government, it was images for independent wealthy person wanting to celebrate the culture of Indonesia. The photographers who I know got tied up in this have loads of experience , more than most. If you don’t or haven’t lived in Asia then you probably aren’t familiar with jobs unfolding like this , it’s not every day , but it’s a lot different here. If you haven’t experience doing business here , taking on assignments and the variation form job to job I can see how it sounds odd but I’ve worked here for 20 years at the highest level and I can do you firsthand these type of jobs unfold like this from time to time .
That’s not accurate at all, the project wasn’t for the government, it was images for independent wealthy person wanting to celebrate the culture of Indonesia. The photographers who I know got tied up in this have loads of experience , more than most. If you don’t or haven’t lived in Asia then you probably aren’t familiar with jobs unfolding like this , it’s not every day , but it’s a lot different here. If you haven’t experience doing business here , taking on assignments and the variation form job to job I can see how it sounds odd but I’ve worked here for 20 years at the highest level and I can do you firsthand these type of jobs unfold like this from time to time .
@@AskMOTT was born in Asia, been working in west, south and east Asia since 2005. But yeah, all sorts of jobs and situations do crop up. Have had shandy clients in the US and the UK as well. Also perhaps it's how vulnerable you're willing to be to do the job. There's a constant balancing act, with the risky situations you put yourself though, the clients you're willing to tolerate and how far out on a limb you go. Risk versus reward scenario. I'll have to look for the documentary, seems fascinating.
I don't know about what guys and the space you guys live in but if I'm asked to do a contract or some work I always get a 25% deposit from them first. If it any stage I feel like I've been duped at least I've got some money out of it and I walk away. I never pay for all expenses with the work I do that is just a red flag immediately but I do get how someone could get scammed and without due respect some of the south-east Asian countries are known for this and that sounds like I'm being racist. I'm not. It's just unfortunately a lot of the south-east Asian countries and African countries..
Sorry but this totally looks sketchy right off the bat. So this business woman hired a photographer for a job and is expecting the photographer to pay for travel expenses and driver? Your friend needed to spend more time on social media to realize this is a scam from day one. It is very clear.
Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure Charles, thanks for watching.
great story... thanks for that!
Old con. Amazing how new characters and narratives make so many people still fall for it.
It's not amazing. It's clever. And the moment you think you're above it, you're next.
This is so sad. The dark side of humanity in execution.
This is why you have a process for everything, people.
Everyone that wants to be a client goes through the same process.
Any resistance to the process 'I'm sorry, it looks like this wouldn't be a good fit after all'.
I agree , that’s great advice .
Occasionally in the past I’d bend on my payment before deliverables policy and it often screwed me.
thank you
Not all scam entangle in one week or one month. We got scammed by a client with which we worked for years. In the end he could not pay many bills. In 20 years this accumulated to more than 100k. So this can happen everywhere. And maybe it’s part of the job. I am still thinking a lot about it. And thank you for sharing the story. Very good narrated. And always good to have an image of the scammers. Cheers Peter
That's wild!! Soo many scams out there in different fields. Problem is they are getting better all the time so you have to do your homework and even then that doesn't guarantee you know everything.
So true Brett.
Man, I hate to hear this Justin. Photographer's allow themselves to be disrespected. I used to LOVE getting jerked around by Fortune 500 companies that wanted to pay on a Net 30-60-90 day schedule. Sorry, payment on delivery and expenses up front. And fronting all the expenses for editorial work, which doesn't pay that great to begin with, is ridiculous. If your answer is "That's how the industry works" change it. Or don't participate.
Times like this make me glad I am a hack amateur
Pretty crazy scam right, so detailed and deceptive.
This shit is maddening, I'm in Ireland and there are plenty of sketchy shit going on way more often than I thought.
The rule of thumb is always get paid upfront, as well as make sure the person you're talking to is legit, or at least someone with an online footprint. Otherwise pass.
I'm good at spotting scams. I do a lot of researchinvolving ip addresses in email headers and ip checks of incoming phone calls to my cell phone, etc. If I am reasonably sure it's a scam, I will mention that I also work as an intergenerational analyst. If the vanish, it was a scam unless the scammer is a foreign intel operative which is a whole other scam.
That’s deep Dan, i need to step up my game or hire you :).
@AskMOTT The actual process is easy. You research ant names and addresses of an unknown client. If they work for a certain publication or company, look them up in the corporate directory and pop them off an email about the business arrangement. If they are in the dark or don't respond, the scammer is impersonating them. I immediately get suspicious if the 'costomer' wants money from me or wants me to foot any or all of tge various sundries. That usually means scam time or some other motive. I've been known to give as far as have customers checked out by their local authorities or their state intelligence agencies. A little bit of paranoia is a healthy thing. 😁
Interesting. crazy world we live in.....
Indeed it is Sue :(.
The trouble is when Psychological damage is done it is irreversible. You remain permanently scarred mentally. I despise the Liars and the Cheats of this world.
The best way to look at it is to know that in the end Karma always wins. It will catch up with them... in the end.
Good video. Thanks for the heads-up. // Too bad the driver's eyes were blacked out at 5:59. Maybe try a different photo of him next time.
It’s not my photo, it’s what I found online and what I felt comfortable using as you never know with legal stuff.
Seemed like a lot of work for the scammers for only a several thousand dollar return -
Interesting choice. Why did you chose Hanoi for living place?
A classic carrot and stick situation but with more bare-faced scamming.
Totally, it was such a dark and complex scam , loads of people got taken.
Any payment via PayPal or VENMO must clear my bank account before I do anything.
Hire your own driver to begin with
Always Always check email headers right click them....
Would you have fallen for this scam?
Nope.
@@AskMOTT of course not!!
@@AskMOTT Not at all ! This is not the actual approach that any Big Publisher operates, such as Conde Nast as you mentioned.
Sorry, what? Work for a heritage/government project, the government isn't covering the cost and you have to oay the driver?
That makes no sense, was rhere a zoom call? Face to face meeting? Discussion wirh the team behind it?
A project of this scope and scale wouldn't happen unless there was a briefing with rhe ministry or department involved.
Even if the airfare was a reimbursement after the job, there would at rhe very least be a 25% fee upfront. I don't know any serious professionals who would take a job without that.
Especially because wuch projects tend to stall and can get shelved half way through. Because organisations can pivot and change their marketing strategy.
Also because the photographer 's fee and travel expenses are a drop in the bucket, compared to the overall cost of rhe project.
Flying the photographer and marketing team or at least the art director all over rhe place. Booking hotels, blocking historic and tourist sites for rhe specific shots agreed upon for that hour or two. If there are villages you've got to photograph, those need to be organised and set up for rhe camera.
This is clearly aimed at someone overly eager and inexperienced.
If i call you and ask you to photograph my hotel and ill pay you back the expenses after the job, would you even consider me a serious client? As much as it's a photographic opportunity, its a business deal and you wouldn't move forward without a valid contract and some sort of financial exchange.
I would probably fall for something like this within my first 3-5 years as a freelancer. Clients can change their mind at any time, if they don't get along with the photographer, if there arw disagreements, etc... maybe they aim higher than they're able to facilitate. So clients can rake a U-turn if and when they realise they've bitten more than they can chew. Inexperienced marketing team, art director or vastly underestimating the budget needed for the job. So change it to a studio shoot or end it within they amount the can afford. So there always has ro be a solid transaction to show how serious the client is.
Otherwise they can always call that relative with an slr or smartphone to do it for them instead.
That’s not accurate at all, the project wasn’t for the government, it was images for independent wealthy person wanting to celebrate the culture of Indonesia. The photographers who I know got tied up in this have loads of experience , more than most. If you don’t or haven’t lived in Asia then you probably aren’t familiar with jobs unfolding like this , it’s not every day , but it’s a lot different here. If you haven’t experience doing business here , taking on assignments and the variation form job to job I can see how it sounds odd but I’ve worked here for 20 years at the highest level and I can do you firsthand these type of jobs unfold like this from time to time .
That’s not accurate at all, the project wasn’t for the government, it was images for independent wealthy person wanting to celebrate the culture of Indonesia. The photographers who I know got tied up in this have loads of experience , more than most. If you don’t or haven’t lived in Asia then you probably aren’t familiar with jobs unfolding like this , it’s not every day , but it’s a lot different here. If you haven’t experience doing business here , taking on assignments and the variation form job to job I can see how it sounds odd but I’ve worked here for 20 years at the highest level and I can do you firsthand these type of jobs unfold like this from time to time .
@@AskMOTT was born in Asia, been working in west, south and east Asia since 2005. But yeah, all sorts of jobs and situations do crop up.
Have had shandy clients in the US and the UK as well.
Also perhaps it's how vulnerable you're willing to be to do the job. There's a constant balancing act, with the risky situations you put yourself though, the clients you're willing to tolerate and how far out on a limb you go. Risk versus reward scenario. I'll have to look for the documentary, seems fascinating.
I don't know about what guys and the space you guys live in but if I'm asked to do a contract or some work I always get a 25% deposit from them first. If it any stage I feel like I've been duped at least I've got some money out of it and I walk away. I never pay for all expenses with the work I do that is just a red flag immediately but I do get how someone could get scammed and without due respect some of the south-east Asian countries are known for this and that sounds like I'm being racist. I'm not. It's just unfortunately a lot of the south-east Asian countries and African countries..
Sorry but this totally looks sketchy right off the bat. So this business woman hired a photographer for a job and is expecting the photographer to pay for travel expenses and driver? Your friend needed to spend more time on social media to realize this is a scam from day one. It is very clear.