HOW TO MAKE MORE TORQUE WITH YOUR LS. 6.0L 408 STROKER CAM TEST-WHICH TORQUE CAM WOULD YOU CHOOSE?
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- Опубліковано 10 жов 2024
- HOW CAN I MAKE MORE LOW SPEED TORQUE? WHAT IS THE BEST CAM FOR TORQUE? CAN I MAKE MORE TORQUE WITH A STROKER LS? WHAT IS THE BEST STROKER LS CAM? SHOULD I PICK A TRUCK CAM FOR A STROKER? CAN I RUN A STOCK CAM IN MY 408 STROKER? HOW MUCH TORQUE DOES A 408 STROKER MAKE? CAN I RUN A BIG CAM IN A 408 STROKER? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WERE I RAN 4 DIFFERENT CAMS IN A 408 STROKE RLS TO HELP YOU PICK THE RIGHT TORQUE CAM FOR YOUR APPLICATION. WILL YOU PICK A MILD CAM, A MEDIUM SIZE CAM OR A BIG, PERFORMANCE CAM FOR YOUR 408 STROKER? WHICH ONE MAKES THE MOST PEAK TORQUE? IS THAT EVEN IMPORTANT? THIS IS A REMOVED AND REPOSTED VIDEO AFTER MINOR CHANGES.
Noooooo! I was so hoping to see the truck norris tested. Or at least the summit 8728r1 torkinator that had similar results to the truck norris. Those two camshafts had such similar results on a smaller cubic inch engine, it would have been interesting to see if that changed at all on this larger cubic inch. Man, but for real, Brian tooley needs to give Richard a pile of camshafts for all the business these videos make happen. Lol
A truck Norris is a ridiculously small cam for a 408, the low end gains that would be useless considering the fact that a 6.7L stroker is already going to make gobs of torque and defeats the point of why you would even build a 408 in the first place. It would do basically the same thing as it would in a 6.2
i'd like to see your 'ultimate towing LS' combos
For a true street driven vehicle, the trucknorris cam would be perfect. The only problem is that people arent honest about how they drive, or care more about chop and "big" numbers. They miss out on more average power, which is more fun to drive and far more usable. Great video as usual!
I had big chopping small blocks way back when. Daily driven cam of 246 @ .050" with 3500 stall on wrinkle walls as my sole means of transportation. But now I'm the opposite. I want stock idle but 6500 rpm hp 😂
Excellent test! Truck Norris or similar would be my vote for a daily cam in 6.0 or larger. Keep up the great work !!!
Richard, doing my 1st engine build. I have a Gen 3 6.0L LS iron block bored and stroked to 408-forged internals with 10cc dished Pist, 799 heads with Texas Speed stage 2.5 port job with dual 660 springs and Holley terminator max x. My oddity is that I’m using Holley’s dual 92mm throttle bodies/ dual plenum intake. I like the torque range and curve of Truck Norris cam but BTR suggested their 400+ CI cam: 236/25x, net lift of .636/.636 and 114 LSA. It’s producing most of its Torque/ power at the upper RPM. A friend has a similar 408 but using the truck intake and stock 317 heads, same cam in nitrous version and struggled with tuning and thought he’d have more low and mid torque. He’s upped his torque converter-3500 and rear gears to 4:10’s. I have not established my converter, gearing, or tire size yet. I am running a 4L80E trans. It’s helped but still not what he thought. Would the Truck Norris be a good option considering my intake, heads/ springs, etc. thinking 550-ish on torque in the low to mid ranges would be my ideal. Is it undersized? If so do you have any cam recommendations? There’s not a lot out there for strokers with this intake. Thanks, Sean
Thank you for your channel it’s helped me tremendously, building a 72 one ton chopped to a short bed dually, currently building an LQ4 with stock bottom except flat tops. Decided on 799 heads, TruckNorris, TBSS and 92mm throttle, long tube headers. I’ve got close to the numbers but the low end torque is very desirable. Again, lover the channel and have even got my traditionalist buddy watching, he’s now building an LS for his 65 Chevelle! Thanks Richard!
That is awesome!
I see how you feel the truck Norris would produce a happy middle ground…. Learning quickly that there’s no perfect cam HaHa always a trade off for either more tq or more hp and where it comes in as well. Thanks again for the info!
I’m running the summit truck cam that’s 205/217 @ .0.50. The extra exhaust duration seems to really help up top. Now that I’m running e85 and a GT45, it’s a blast to drive.
Great info there Richard! picking that right cam is important. I’ll be needing to do that on my 6 L LQ4. I’ll be putting together soon.
Would love a torque monster 408 for the escalade to be a long haul pro tour rig.put that thing in the wind and go all day
224 all the way. I’ve got a 216 6.0 in a 5000# z71 and love the torque while cruising up hills.
Yup. Chuck Noris and a turbo to remove any complaints. Chopacabra is basically the same it seems.
I've only built a couple of performance car motors but have done a lot of Harley performance builds so I have seen what happens when you run the same cam with different combinations of heads, compression, intake, etc. With the bigger cams, they are dogs below 3000 rpm with a stock motor and then as you start adding compression, good heads, etc, they not only start making more peak power & torque but get much better under 3000 rpm. There are limits of course to every cam but generally speaking the bigger the cam, the more important the rest of the combination is for not only peak numbers but the lower rpm torque as well.
Yes for that cube no doubt truck Norris!!!
Currently building a 408 stroker with TBSS l intake and 243 heads. It’s going in a off-road vehicle on 43 inch tires. I had called BTR asking which of their truck cams do they recommend? One of the truck stage cams or the truck Norris. They told me not to get any of them. They have a specific 4 inch stroke truck cam for the 408 that he said would perform much better. Never see anyone on the forums or UA-cam talk about it. I think you should test her out. Mine should be going in the next month.
LS 3 Bolt 5150 Camshaft
4" Stroke Cathedral Port Truck Cam
BTR219-325/239-325/115+0
it will make less power down low than the Truck Norris
This is what I want in my dream build. TORQUE!!!
The custom grind in my engine made pretty astounding torque numbers. 230/242, .600/.600 on a 115 LSA. Made 508whp and 580wtq (std correction). Similar engine specs as well. 404ci, 8cc dished pistons, TFS 225 heads with 65cc chambers put compression at 11:1. Fast LSXR 102 paired with a Nick Williams 103 throttle body. I assume some converter spike came into play but still has heaps of low end grunt regardless.
that torque reading is a converter spike-that cam would make more hp and than torque when tested on an engine dyno or with a manual transmission-but still good combo
@richardholdener1727 That's what I kinda figured. It definitely has a very broad power band as it sits. I'll be interested to see what it will do with the new grind.
I have a Lsa supercharger ,truck Norris cam in a 6.0 as well Haven’t fired it up yet hopefully that will have more torque than my lsx454
Looks to me a 408 build flat to with reliefs btr red hot cam and 245 heads fast lsxR is a pretty good street strip combo for my 95 z28.
I hope you’re able to test this combo with the BTR Truck Norris Cam. This is my plan B if I don’t get an LSA blower for my L96 6.0
I am running a similar short block with stock heads. I have the truck Norris cam and a g42 t4 turbo. The low end torque is great, but top end seems restricted by the single turbo setup.
Sbc 406vs6.0 ls creating torque
I love to see it
Hi Richard, I know this is an older post, but I’d like closure on what heads you would’ve recommended over the AFRs. I’m trying to get a build sheet together.
many other smaller heads (the 245s were overkill)
What about 317s? I can have a set milled for CR, but would they flow enough?
Put that 224 cam on a 108 LSA and you’ve got something going. 👍🏻
We all want more torque down low. Period.
Nerding out to build a 408 for my suburban.. wish you had used a 317 head..
Anyways, seams y'all missed the 206/212 cam did at least 500tq from 2700 to 5400rpm and it's probably doing 450-475tq at 2000. I'm currently looking at a 212/218 ~560" 115lsa cam
Variable cam timing would give the magic cam Richard.
Have you ever done a 4.25 stroke lSX short deck... Thinking about changing my set up to a 450 + cid , street car I'm thinking that it might just get to 600 ft lbs / 600+ hp.. just wondering.. thanks for all the continued LS support. Great for the industry.
see the 700-hp 454 build with the 4.25 stroke
@@richardholdener1727 thanks Richard
Thank you!! I love all of your testing!!
For a 3400lb hpde car, I desire a hsitload of NA torque by 3500-4000, with max area under the curve up to 6000-6500 and try to have it carry a bit. I kinda like the btr ls3 s2v2 or cammotion titan 3 ls3.
The ultimate cam for torque has to be the infamous best turbo cam
really want to see some tests with the cam motion little chopper, its a 232/232 on a 108+3.
Think that could work well, would use more rocker if it allowed too
The 5.3 in my 01 Suburban is getting tired. I'm thinking about dropping in a 6.0, and after watching this, it would seem the truck norris cam is a good upgrade
For a 5.3L yes, for a 6L - go a little larger. I have TSP cam about the same size as the TN in an LQ4 with 862 heads and supporting mods. It's OK, but not impressed.
Do it man but I have a recommendation. If you get a lq4, bump compression to 10:1 at least.
I have a lq4 that I put flat top pistons in, with the truck norris cam. Stock intake, stock 317 heads. I love the way it performs. I have a built 4l60 that I'm using the 4.3/4.8 converter because it has a little more stall 1600-1800 vs 1400-1600
@@rdnck891 Absolutely. Compression is so often overlooked for torque, which is all I'm after.
450 horsepower with a 190@.050 camshaft. Amazing what you can do with good cylinder heads!
If i was wanting to make torque....as in low end power. Then the cam is likely the least important part in the engine. So why worry about it so much??
You want tq. Add compression and a cross ram intake.
Is tuning more difficult when running a Cross Ram intake?
@@brudevold62 shit it's pretty difficult in general to get them 100% right....especially with the factory ecu that most of us deal with. He's on a dyno using a aftermarket ecu. Most people never see the benefit of the cam.
I would not use full dish pistons and no quench and I'd start with around 216 with an inverse radius profile to keep the seat duration short maybe high ratio rockers what was your compression ratio if it worked with a 206 then a 224 could use more compression cheers Ps I do not use .050 to spec cams but do compare the "intensity" of the .006 to .050 duration cheers pps great ideas for my 6.0 Motorhome motor whentime comes for a rebuild
Richard can you make a episode covering LS engines for marine applications. I'm having trouble picking a cam since you have to think about water cooled headers sucking water into the engine.
for what rpm range?
LS 408, with a Truck Norris Cam, and an LSA Supercharger? Too Much? Too Little? Just Right?
Dual plane… I like heads, tn cam
For towing purposes and to keep the 6L80E happy under 6000 rpm. What is the absolute highest amount of torque you can make before going to forced air?
for what displacement and compression and octane?
@richardholdener1727 For the 6.0L VVT L96 on stock internals with 89 octane pump gas. I'm looking to keep the VVT and already have intake and shorty headers, but I'm interested in valvetrain mods and a tune. Would higher compression and higher octane help low-end torque or hurt it? I know these are already low compression to begin with. I am trying to avoid increasing the RPM range and shifting power up. But I want overall best performance for a street application with Towing and offroad use in mind.
Thank you for these vids. I had the truck Norris and was sold a custom grind cam since I wanted to turbo. Now I’m wondering why they only took my Ly6 to a 370 cid instead of a 408. How realistic is it to have a 408 as a daily? Too hard or just right? If not much different, may have them take it to 408 before I do anything else. Definitely going back to TN cam and maybe add turbo or LSA SC. Looking for a fun daily for my 2500hd.
you can daily a 408 just like any other displacement-just more fuel cost
Do you have to use two different push rods lengths? For a 408 6.0 over.30 4 inch stroke 6.125 rods I’m running your combo I’m almost finished buying parts please help with push rods 7.400
LS motors generally run the same length pushrods for all cylinders
What do I need to build my 408
Ricardo, I need your suggestion for an engine in a 69 Camaro used mostly for 1/4 mile and road racing. LS3/406 sbc/bbc?
alum ls
If that 224/232 cam was on a 109 LSA it would whip the pants off the 206/212 cam down low for torque. The 115 is just too wide. Even 112 would have been a lot better
no
I'm building almost the same engine. With the truck Norris cam, and twin turbos, would that be good for a daily driver and a race every now and then build? Putting it in my 06 silverado extended cab.
TURBOS DECIDE THE ULTIMATE POWER-THE TN CAM WILL WORK
What’s up Rex!
Truck norris is for a 5.3, not a 408. Use Comp LSL/LXL lobes. 218*/228*, 107* LSA, .650" lift (1.8:1 rockers).
That would probably do pretty well. I'd probably go solid roller myself but with those lobes maybe 225 @ 0.050, 275 @ 0.020 / 230, 282 on that 108 with 62.5 overlap, 1.8 rockers as you said should work alright with those 245 heads to 7200 rpm so long as the springs are good.
If it was mine I'd probably run it a little farther out in rpm too, so perhaps lil more duration that brings overlap around 70, maybe 280/292 @0.020.
Just my opinion but if you want more torque then build a big block for less/$ or run a turbo/supercharger setup and spread that lobe separation out a couple/few degrees.
I used 108 lca, thought that was what you said. Close enough, little tighter probably better than a little on the wide side.
That makes no sense at all. If you've watched many of Richards videos, you'd know that there is no "right" cam for an engine - they all work in every LS setup. The difference is where the torque band is - the larger the displacement, the lower the torque comes in (and consequently peaks). Saying that a cam is "too small" is silly - it depends on what you're looking for. In this video, he was discussing a more low end grunt Torque Monster setup - which as he said at the beginning, displacement is the best answer.
I think you have a predetermined idea of what a 408 is for - but as with anything in the car enthusiast life, it's flexible in how you adapt it. I'm looking forward to building something like this (basic overbore with a 4.00" stroker rotating assembly) and I drool at the thought of a TBSS intake and the Truck Norris cam. Stock 799 heads, maybe light porting - should be a stupid grin inducing monster with silly torque everywhere. :) It'll definitely motivate my 6k lb AWD Escalade with some authority. No, it wont' be fast - but it will be fun. :)
@@Broadpaw_Fox it sounds like you'll have something to really enjoy. Even a 400hp mild sbc is fun.
As far as cams there are tendencies but depending on what you are looking for you can get close.
And I'd lean towards saying there are "right cams". If you're racing, have data and use an rpm histogram and scatter plot then you can see at what rpm and for how long you spend time and work towards making average power where it counts.
The average view isn't gonna have i2 Pro... and do that.
But I will say one cam I'm not a fan of is that BBC on a mile wide 114 LCA 😅 (for a traditional valve angle big block, especially as the cubes go up and it stays na) still love the channel and appreciate the content.
And yes he described grunt and also described he'd use different parts. With those 245s I'd build around the min csa.
To me if I'm building a street engine I'd want the most cubes and best heads I could afford and build around that (assuming I'm not gonna be in the stratosphere for parts because I chose something crazy like a 9° head), ya know stick with decent parts with reasonable piston speed... find it hard to beat a BBC if you're going na average hp/$. Plus they sound really good.
@@Broadpaw_Fox try to get your hands on factory LS3 heads and intake that will help with power everywhere more than the 799 heads and TBSS intake
Hey Richard, I need some help. I am building a gen IV 408 for an airboat with 0821 heads and truck intake. It will not be exceeding 5500 RPM. What is the best camshaft selection for torque and HP production from 3000-5500RPM? Thanks
I have a Low Buck Truck ($179) that would work well on that
Perfect, where can I purchase?
Hello To my 6.0 408, would it be a good combination a COMP camp 235/251 .621/.624 camshaft with Trick Flow 225 CNC heads, 4030 pinstons and a fast LSXR ported intake
yes
Since those cams don't really run away from each other under until 4k or so, would it be safe to say they would provide simular economy under 4k for daily driving ?
NO-THE BIGGER CAMS WILL BE WORSE
Whats a good cam for a 408, ported ls3 heads, ported ls3 or fast manifold, gutted f body camaro road race build.
btr red hot or maybe even bigger
@richardholdener1727 thanks brother
Richard how would a Truck Norris can do in a 408 flat top pistons and 823 heads. With truck intake and ls3 throttle body? Going in Awd Denali Truck. Had built trans circle d 2600-2800 converter. Just not sure which cam to run. Still pull with the truck and play with it.
pick the Hot Rod
What would you for a 6.0 for 500hp and high tourque down low
compression, heads, mild cam, headers
Richard, have you tested headers with and without a velocity spike? I heard they make more torque.
VELOCITY SPIKE?
At the 4:1 collector some companies like ARH put a spike in between the 4 collector tubes. Looks pretty cool I wondered if it made a difference as well.
What that guy said ☝️
May I ask what strocker kit or brand was used for this engine.?
SCAT-but lots of good ones out there like Summit Pro LS
206 cam and a dual plane and carb.
Hey Richard,
I have a 1990 300zx with an LQ4 swap the engine is assembled as such:
4.030" Bore
Summit forged +2cc flat top pistons.
Eagle H-Beam rods
Forged crank
823 casting heads
Comp cam valve springs (max .625 lift)
Jessel Link bar hydraulic lifters
Comp cam trunion upgrade
Summit stage 3 cam
Compression works out to ~11:1
I have one of the kind of junky fabricated intake manifolds
I Made 385 WHP on the local Dyno I was wondering if you had any suggestions to push me over the 400 WHP mark without doing a power adder?
it should make more than that-does it have headers
@Richard Holdener 1.75" shorty headers into dual 3" stainless exhaust. The local shop has a mainline dyno that reads about 20% lower then the other shops in the area.
I got lsx 454 with btr 400+ nitrous cam , will truck Norris cam give me more low end ?
YES-BUT IT MIGHT BE A TOUCH SMALL FOR THAT MOTOR-BETTER TO CHOOSE THE 219 CAM I HAVE AVAILABLE
@@richardholdener1727how can I check it out ?
When can I buy it
Cost of parts?
What would it take to get 500tq out of a 402 stroker ?
500 lb-ft is very easy out of a 408
@@richardholdener1727 but is it reliable in a truck application DD with occasional towing
Need 408 Coyotes lol, then can have the best of both
So is it a 6.0 liter or is it a 6.7 liter? Lol
6.7
Why did you repost this video?
HAD TO PULL IT DOWN
@@richardholdener1727 That's to bad, this is a great video though
Im building a daily work truck/tow rig with a 408. Gonna run a vsr85/102, they told me it will spool at 3200 rpm. My question is out of these 4 cams witch would produce the most torque below 3200 rpm.
Cm31939150 na truck cam
219/239, .553"/.553", 115+0,
BTR 400+ TRUCK LS TURBO CAMSHAFT
225/24X, .629"/.629", 116 LSA,
BTR 400+ SMALL TWIN TURBO CAMSHAFT
237/25X .619"/.619" 117 LSA
BTR GEN III & IV LS TRUCK NORRIS CAM
Specs: 212/22X, .552/.552, 107 LSA
truck norris
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you!
Good information really good for a stick car