I will raise the question of whether Baba has left His subtle and mental body. This is an important issue and it has to do with how we can now have a relationship with Baba. From Meher Baba's message, I say that he has definitely left his other bodies. "God Speaks" very precisely describes that in order to experience the physical world you need a physical body. The same goes for the subtle and mental worlds. What makes the Avatar an Avatar is that he is aware of the three worlds while simultaneously experiencing a state of divinity. Without having a physical body, he is unaware of the physical world, so he does not meet the requirements to be an Avatar. Therefore, he does all his work with all three bodies, and after leaving the physical body, he is no longer an Avatar and experiences the Beyond "2b" state, according to "God Speaks". The thing is, it may seem like we have no way of having a relationship with him now. At the end of the video above, someone mentions a quote from Meher Baba in which he says that the Avatar is just a picture on the wall and he is not that picture, but something more. He even said that "there are two Meher Babas." What does it mean? Meher Baba is God. Avatar is one of the states of God (10th state, according to God Speaks). Avatar departs to state "2b" after completing his mission, but God has many states. One of the states of God is the state of Beyond "2c". This is the state into which the Perfect Masters (who are state 10) are "immersed". The "2c" state is like a formless, disembodied God who experiences the world through the bodies of Perfect Masters. This is where I would look for a relationship with Meher Baba. Please don't get me wrong. I don't mean that we should look to other Masters instead of Meher Baba, and I don't think that if someone has a relationship with Baba, he actually has a relationship with some Master who is alive today. Please note that Baba distinguished state 2c and state 10 from each other. Why? I believe that state 10 is different from state "2c", that in state 10 there are many individualities, unique personalities of the Masters (yogayoga sanskaras). There are many Masters in state 10. The Avatar is one of those Masters and no other Master is pretending to be another (because each Master has his own private yogayoga sanskaras).. However, the "2c" state is one and there is no differentiation here for a multitude of Masters, and it is this "wall" on which are the images of the Masters and the Avatar. God in Beyond "2c" works through the Masters and this is the Meher Baba that we are dealing with right now. So we're not looking for new Masters, but we have Baba in Beyond, a disembodied one who works THROUGH embodied Masters. This is a subtle but significant difference. I am interested in this topic because treating Baba as a spirit equates him to the level of angels.
... but if that is not satisfactory for someone, I have an interesting thing for consideration now. When God is in state 10 and functions as an Avatar and is that unique individual, He is not limited by time and space. He often repeated that he knows what someone will think in 1000 years and he knows all the past and the future in a flash. So when Meher Baba was in the body, He knew us as we are now. We can come into contact with this particular Avatar even after he has left the body, because this does not affect his omniscience that he has at the time of incarnation.
To be more accurate (and I think it is worth it, because Baba was very precise in his descriptions of the states of God), Baba placed the "resting place of the Masters" in state 8, which is charactistic for "divinely absorbed", but added that all realized people after disembodient experience the same state as in Beyond "2b" state. This is another example where Baba places apparently the same thing in two different places as different states. Why is the same state of existence placed both as Beyond "2b" and state 8? It is about how this state is achieved, not the experience of being in that state. How is "2b" different from "resting place of the Masters"? Beyond "2b" is achieved such that God after Universal Whim automatically becomes self-aware, without experiencing all this evolution of consciousness. All false answers have been "expelled" from him, but "2b" does not realize it and only in other states of God, God struggles with these false answers. The human incarnate soul experiences the same as "2b" after self-realization but the way to achieve it is different, therefore the same experience is placed in two different places. So I understand that no one really experiences "2b" as "2b" only state of self-realization described in state 8. I do not fully understand all of this, because I have been studying the message of Meher Baba for a year and a half, but I think that it is connected, for example, with the fact that the first human being who achieved self-realization was taken into his state by "eternal Avataric consciousness" . I haven't heard of anyone explaining it and what does that actually mean? For me it means that this awareness of divinity was already there before the first man realized himself. The first man did not "do" this awareness, only this awareness "did" the Avatar. So there is an aspect of God that has never evolved or incarnated and is aware of his divinity. I understand that there was some "pull" from Beyond by God for going into the "2c" state by fusing the consciousness of the first man (who achieved self-realization) with the consciousness of Beyond. As if the Avatar was the missing piece to express perfection. I'm interested in what Peter Nordeen would have to say because I can see he likes these topics. Greetings from Poland.
@@LieutenantBoreyko Hi, I enjoyed reading your comments, it's the kind of thing I think about. I tend to look at it like like this, there is an eternal infinite God who is conscious of the universe and takes an active interest and helps all living things and this is done through the link which is the 5 perfect masters and God also directly incarnates as the avatar. God manifested in and through the body of Merwan Irani directly, and then left that body and now manifests through the 5 PM'S again, but the personality of Meher Baba has been strongly stamped on all worlds now and will be until next advent, I read somewhere that Baba said his influence would linger strongly for 100 years after his death and to a lesser extent for another 100 years after that.. People who follow Meher Baba might have a dream or vision of Baba but I would say it is a PM appearing in the form of MB or MB appearing through the PM!!?? Meher Baba did say however that he is never born, never dies, never goes never comes (to paraphrase) and in the message 'inner links' he says " Baba was, Baba is and Baba will always be eternally existent" and anything is possible with God. I like what the Buddhists say when asked about the after death state of the Buddha, to say the Buddha: Ceased to exist, is not correct. Still exists, is not correct. Ceased to exist and still exist, is not correct. Neither ceased to exist and neither still exist, is not correct. Any definition of Gautama Buddha after death, is not correct. Jai Meher Baba!!
I saw that too, and asked this question of Allan Cohen (author of Mastery of Consciousness), back in 2005. Here is my question and his answer: Q: It says on the bottom of page 184 in God Speaks that the Avatar retires to State B of God State II (the "Beyond God") after He drops the body. Yet in the upper right corner of the chart opposite page 158, it says that while in that state, God does NOT use His power, knowledge or bliss. It doesn't make sense to me that right now Meher Baba is not using his power or knowledge now that He has dropped His body. Can anyone make sense of this? A: Looking closely at the text on page 184, we see that Baba is talking about the process of God-Realization, essentially of man becoming conscious of God. This is not the Avataric State, which is God becoming man and is quite a different process. Now, nearer the bottom of the page, he explains that a newly God-realized soul, when disembodied, retires to the "State B" of God in the Beyond. Looking at the Chart on page 158, we see that State as experiencing consciously infinite power, knowledge and bliss, but not using them. This makes sense as the God-realized being in this State is not conscious of illusion, so he/she wouldn't be using them, only enjoying them. Back on the bottom of page 184, Baba goes on to describe the different names for this (disembodied) state of consciousness. He also describes special terms for the state of a Perfect Master after leaving his/her body (no longer using infinite power, knowledge and bliss), but distinguishes that state from the state of a Perfect Master still in a physical body ("Office of Muhammad"). Looking at the last line of page 184, we see that the "tenth state of God" in physical body is reflected as State "C" on the Chart on page 158. That state, shared both by Perfect Masters and the Avatar, is described as "Qualitied Manifest in Form", where "God consciously experiences Power Knowledge and Bliss and uses them." To simplify, none of the discussion on page 184 refers to the state of the Avatar after disembodiment, only to the consciousness of God-realized souls who leave their bodies, and God-realized souls who act as Perfect Masters in the physical body. As you suspected intuitively, Baba has elsewhere described that the Avatar, the God-Man, remains fully aware of both Illusion and Reality during and after His time in the body and is fully capable of using infinite power, knowledge and bliss for the good of humanity. No doubt, the application and manifestation of that role is most powerful during and somewhat after the Avatar takes and leaves a physical body, but His experience of the whole deal is not interrupted. There is a certain kind of processing only possible when in the physical body (Baba's "universal work") but He's dang active out of the physical body as well.
What is the point of pondering on these possible states? Does it assist you to experience or realize them? I assume not (otherwise you’d have no doubts or questions about it). So, if thinking about these things and their possible details doesn’t help you to realize or experience them, then why bother? Isn’t thinking in this way a distraction? In fact, I wonder about a lot of the things written in Baba’s name for precisely the same reason. If all this speculation does nothing to assist realization, then why was it even written? When it can’t even help anyone reach the goal, why speak on these things?
Thank you for this. Jai Baba
1:40:30
I will raise the question of whether Baba has left His subtle and mental body. This is an important issue and it has to do with how we can now have a relationship with Baba. From Meher Baba's message, I say that he has definitely left his other bodies. "God Speaks" very precisely describes that in order to experience the physical world you need a physical body. The same goes for the subtle and mental worlds. What makes the Avatar an Avatar is that he is aware of the three worlds while simultaneously experiencing a state of divinity. Without having a physical body, he is unaware of the physical world, so he does not meet the requirements to be an Avatar. Therefore, he does all his work with all three bodies, and after leaving the physical body, he is no longer an Avatar and experiences the Beyond "2b" state, according to "God Speaks". The thing is, it may seem like we have no way of having a relationship with him now. At the end of the video above, someone mentions a quote from Meher Baba in which he says that the Avatar is just a picture on the wall and he is not that picture, but something more. He even said that "there are two Meher Babas." What does it mean? Meher Baba is God. Avatar is one of the states of God (10th state, according to God Speaks). Avatar departs to state "2b" after completing his mission, but God has many states. One of the states of God is the state of Beyond "2c". This is the state into which the Perfect Masters (who are state 10) are "immersed". The "2c" state is like a formless, disembodied God who experiences the world through the bodies of Perfect Masters. This is where I would look for a relationship with Meher Baba. Please don't get me wrong. I don't mean that we should look to other Masters instead of Meher Baba, and I don't think that if someone has a relationship with Baba, he actually has a relationship with some Master who is alive today. Please note that Baba distinguished state 2c and state 10 from each other. Why? I believe that state 10 is different from state "2c", that in state 10 there are many individualities, unique personalities of the Masters (yogayoga sanskaras). There are many Masters in state 10. The Avatar is one of those Masters and no other Master is pretending to be another (because each Master has his own private yogayoga sanskaras).. However, the "2c" state is one and there is no differentiation here for a multitude of Masters, and it is this "wall" on which are the images of the Masters and the Avatar. God in Beyond "2c" works through the Masters and this is the Meher Baba that we are dealing with right now. So we're not looking for new Masters, but we have Baba in Beyond, a disembodied one who works THROUGH embodied Masters. This is a subtle but significant difference. I am interested in this topic because treating Baba as a spirit equates him to the level of angels.
... but if that is not satisfactory for someone, I have an interesting thing for consideration now. When God is in state 10 and functions as an Avatar and is that unique individual, He is not limited by time and space. He often repeated that he knows what someone will think in 1000 years and he knows all the past and the future in a flash. So when Meher Baba was in the body, He knew us as we are now. We can come into contact with this particular Avatar even after he has left the body, because this does not affect his omniscience that he has at the time of incarnation.
To be more accurate (and I think it is worth it, because Baba was very precise in his descriptions of the states of God), Baba placed the "resting place of the Masters" in state 8, which is charactistic for "divinely absorbed", but added that all realized people after disembodient experience the same state as in Beyond "2b" state. This is another example where Baba places apparently the same thing in two different places as different states. Why is the same state of existence placed both as Beyond "2b" and state 8? It is about how this state is achieved, not the experience of being in that state. How is "2b" different from "resting place of the Masters"? Beyond "2b" is achieved such that God after Universal Whim automatically becomes self-aware, without experiencing all this evolution of consciousness. All false answers have been "expelled" from him, but "2b" does not realize it and only in other states of God, God struggles with these false answers. The human incarnate soul experiences the same as "2b" after self-realization but the way to achieve it is different, therefore the same experience is placed in two different places. So I understand that no one really experiences "2b" as "2b" only state of self-realization described in state 8. I do not fully understand all of this, because I have been studying the message of Meher Baba for a year and a half, but I think that it is connected, for example, with the fact that the first human being who achieved self-realization was taken into his state by "eternal Avataric consciousness" . I haven't heard of anyone explaining it and what does that actually mean? For me it means that this awareness of divinity was already there before the first man realized himself. The first man did not "do" this awareness, only this awareness "did" the Avatar. So there is an aspect of God that has never evolved or incarnated and is aware of his divinity. I understand that there was some "pull" from Beyond by God for going into the "2c" state by fusing the consciousness of the first man (who achieved self-realization) with the consciousness of Beyond. As if the Avatar was the missing piece to express perfection. I'm interested in what Peter Nordeen would have to say because I can see he likes these topics. Greetings from Poland.
@@LieutenantBoreyko Hi, I enjoyed reading your comments, it's the kind of thing I think about. I tend to look at it like like this, there is an eternal infinite God who is conscious of the universe and takes an active interest and helps all living things and this is done through the link which is the 5 perfect masters and God also directly incarnates as the avatar. God manifested in and through the body of Merwan Irani directly, and then left that body and now manifests through the 5 PM'S again, but the personality of Meher Baba has been strongly stamped on all worlds now and will be until next advent, I read somewhere that Baba said his influence would linger strongly for 100 years after his death and to a lesser extent for another 100 years after that.. People who follow Meher Baba might have a dream or vision of Baba but I would say it is a PM appearing in the form of MB or MB appearing through the PM!!?? Meher Baba did say however that he is never born, never dies, never goes never comes (to paraphrase) and in the message 'inner links' he says " Baba was, Baba is and Baba will always be eternally existent" and anything is possible with God. I like what the Buddhists say when asked about the after death state of the Buddha, to say the Buddha: Ceased to exist, is not correct.
Still exists, is not correct.
Ceased to exist and still exist, is not correct.
Neither ceased to exist and neither still exist, is not correct.
Any definition of Gautama Buddha after death, is not correct.
Jai Meher Baba!!
I saw that too, and asked this question of Allan Cohen (author of Mastery of Consciousness), back in 2005. Here is my question and his answer:
Q: It says on the bottom of page 184 in God Speaks that the Avatar retires to State B of God State II (the "Beyond God") after He drops the body. Yet in the upper right corner of the chart opposite page 158, it says that while in that state, God does NOT use His power, knowledge or bliss. It doesn't make sense to me that right now Meher Baba is not using his power or knowledge now that He has dropped His body. Can anyone make sense of this?
A: Looking closely at the text on page 184, we see that Baba is talking about the process of God-Realization, essentially of man becoming conscious of God. This is not the Avataric State, which is God becoming man and is quite a different process.
Now, nearer the bottom of the page, he explains that a newly God-realized soul, when disembodied, retires to the "State B" of God in the Beyond. Looking at the Chart on page 158, we see that State as experiencing consciously infinite power, knowledge and bliss, but not using them. This makes sense as the God-realized being in this State is not conscious of illusion, so he/she wouldn't be using them, only enjoying them.
Back on the bottom of page 184, Baba goes on to describe the different names for this (disembodied) state of consciousness. He also describes special terms for the state of a Perfect Master after leaving his/her body (no longer using infinite power, knowledge and bliss), but distinguishes that state from the state of a Perfect Master still in a physical body ("Office of Muhammad"). Looking at the last line of page 184, we see that the "tenth state of God" in physical body is reflected as State "C" on the Chart on page 158. That state, shared both by Perfect Masters and the Avatar, is described as "Qualitied Manifest in Form", where "God consciously experiences Power Knowledge and Bliss and uses them."
To simplify, none of the discussion on page 184 refers to the state of the Avatar after disembodiment, only to the consciousness of God-realized souls who leave their bodies, and God-realized souls who act as Perfect Masters in the physical body.
As you suspected intuitively, Baba has elsewhere described that the Avatar, the God-Man, remains fully aware of both Illusion and Reality during and after His time in the body and is fully capable of using infinite power, knowledge and bliss for the good of humanity. No doubt, the application and manifestation of that role is most powerful during and somewhat after the Avatar takes and leaves a physical body, but His experience of the whole deal is not interrupted. There is a certain kind of processing only possible when in the physical body (Baba's "universal work") but He's dang active out of the physical body as well.
What is the point of pondering on these possible states? Does it assist you to experience or realize them? I assume not (otherwise you’d have no doubts or questions about it). So, if thinking about these things and their possible details doesn’t help you to realize or experience them, then why bother? Isn’t thinking in this way a distraction?
In fact, I wonder about a lot of the things written in Baba’s name for precisely the same reason. If all this speculation does nothing to assist realization, then why was it even written? When it can’t even help anyone reach the goal, why speak on these things?
● 1/4 th OF MANKIND & 3/4 TH
OF WORLD DESTRUCTION....
DO NOT BELONG TO
THE SAME CATEGORY .
Jai AVATAR MEHER BABA