Landscape Photography: How much processing technique do you actually need?
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2022
- In this video I address a very important question: How much technique do you actually need? I'm looking specifically at the processing side of things, as I think a huge amount of emphasis is placed on having every trick in the book, rather than understanding the impact of the tools we are using.
Would you rather your processing was advanced and clever, or streamlined and emotionally articulate?
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I agree wholeheartedly with 95% of the message… but what I would like to add is that there comes a point where the more advanced techniques become simple as well… and without ever working at them they will always remain a tool out of reach…. My greatest joy comes from learning new things, not mastering them, and just because you are learning something new does not mean you need to implement them in every photo….Every technique has its time and place, and the type of photography a person does has as much to do with the usefulness of a technique as anything… a small scene photographer employs different techniques than the grand landscape photographer shooting towards a light source.
I appreciate the simplicity of this approach to processing and pointing out our reliance upon technique. I stopped taking photographs for many years because I became obsessed with technique and conveniently ignored my aesthetic development. Why was I taking the photograph, what was I trying to say who (if anyone) was my audience!
Thank you for this reminder. As someone who wants to express myself through my images, I have experienced the pressure of trying to master and utilize the myriad of available post processing tools. Even if I take the time to learn them, I use them so infrequently that it requires relearning when it’s time to use. That puts me into a negative mental state, even to the point of avoiding processing altogether. I agree with your message that one should focus on expression and keep it simple.
IT people have good quote: "Garbage in garbage out." It is the same thing with postprocessing bad images. You can waist you time to make better photo from bad or average photo but you can't make exellent photo from them. Exellent shots needs just a little bit of postprocessing. Great video Alister and great advices. 👌👌👌
One of the most important things I have received from learning many ways to get the effect I want in post processing is how and what I capture in the camera. Knowing what I can do in post influences what and how I capture the scene on the sensor. I want to get the data onto the sensor by how I frame and how I use the camera settings -- knowing what I will be able to do in post influences those decisions. I was influenced by Ansel Adams back when I used to photograph with black and white film and in the darkroom back in the 60s.
I agree with message and Nick Page, If you learn what the tools in Photoshop do and how they work, which is what I did, you do not need to Watch endless videos on how clever other people are, If you asked people how many technique videos they can remember probably not many, I only have to remember what the tools do.
When it comes to processing, I have a lot of bad photos so it can be fun trying to fix them up. I admit its basically trying to put lipstick on a pig, as the saying goes but I still find it fun. When I do have a decent photo however, I have a lot of trouble resisting the urge to edit the heck out of that too even though it is totally unnecessary. I'll make a dozen edits and end up right back where I started anyway.
"Use simple techniques well". Amen. Thank you, Alister! Eagerly awaiting the release of your book...
Thank you. Enjoy all your videos. ❤️I enjoy all types of processing, but my personal taste is to just get the photo back to how it truly looked in person with a little creative contrast. Getting the colors right drives me crazy because I feel like none of the profiles are a good starting point. I always take a photo with my phone so I can reference the more accurate colors.
Man I'm never going to call a spade a spade again. That was brilliant! (BTW so was the rest of the video - well spoken as always)
I appreciate that, thanks hugely.
All makes sense what you are saying! Thank you for your insight and clear message.
Wolfgang
Awesome, happy to help.
You’re spot on! Agree 💯!
What a fantastic video. Thanks for doing this. Needed to hear it.
Excellent thoughts again Alister. I started in the old days of film photography, when there was nothing like the variety of processing options we have today. But the work of great photographers from decades ago still stand up to anything produced today. As with sports, you can have all the gear but no idea!
Thanks for the video. Nowadays, there are tons of tools , techniques, and software etc. Now I don’t even want to open my captureone because once i was in the software, i was overwhelmed by the tools and lost in the true joy of photography. I tweaked a lot and after hours, I stopped and think why do i do these things. I don’t even like my photos anymore.
Kep it simple, quick and easy, the way to go. Cheers
I have connected more with this video of yours than any previous. Just incredibly timely for me personally. I'm seriously thinking of making the move to your paid membership group.
Thanks so much, I’m in a mission and the community is an incredible hotbed of creative debate and openness.
I put a lot more time and effort into editing earlier in my journey than I do today. Part of that was my in-camera skills and eye for light, etc. were not as strong, so I was trying to force a mediocre photo into something more... and part of it, too, was that so many tutorials and photographers in general push the idea that you have to do all this crazy work to be considered "good."
With more experience, I'm at a point where less is often more, and I'm better able to trust my gut when it comes to making adjustments to achieve my vision. Even so, I still find myself feeling like: "I can't be done, I haven't done enough work!" Yet I can get back from an outing and have 10-20 images processed within a few days, whereas in the past I wouldn't have finished even one or two images in the same amount of time.
It's quite liberating, and as you said, frees up time for other things that I need to, or want to, do. Great video, Alister!
Great video, great advice. Thank you
Another insightful video! I'll be turning 77 is a few months and have poor health. A few weeks ago it dawned on me that the time had come for a "summing up" of my photographic intentions and I began reviewing the 90,000 images that have survived earlier reviews by me. To say that this has been a mind blowing experience would be to massively understate. As I worked my way through my collection I found image after image after image that seemed worthy of a closer look and a more thorough processing effort. It didn't take long before a step by step processing approach gave way to the more intuitive, playful approach advocated in this video and I was amassed by what a huge difference this made! Not only did processing become far less tedious and far more enjoyable, this more instinctual approach resulted in images far superior to any I had ever done before! I rate my photos on a 2 to 5 scale with 2 signifying the image is worth a second look later and 5 meaning it's among my best work. Using this more relaxed, intuitive, playful approach image after image gained 1 or more points on the scale. Even those I had labored over previously often improved. Thanks Alister! Your videos have over time completely changed my approach to image making!
Sorry for the slow reply, we get a bit snowed under sometimes. What a beautiful comment, it really means a great deal to me to read such positive feedback. Thank you so very much and I am delighted to hear you have rekindled your love for creative express ❤️
@@Alister_Benn Not a problem. I owned a small nature cruise boat company for 25 years and know only too well how easily one can get buried. By the way I came upon an image I had marked to delete and figured "what the heck" let’s see what I can do with it. Remembering what you've had to say about the importance of crop ratio I used an entirely different crop and switched from horizontal to portrait orientation as well. I posted the re-edited image online last night and the reaction from others has been incredible. Thanks again for helping break out of same old/same old habits!
@@boatman222345 Thanks so much again, it is a real pleasure to hear.
Wow great video! You always hit the point! I am really learning less is more.
I find this episode very encouraging! Thank you very much!
Great video Alister. It really resonated with me as to where I am now with my photography. I use Lightroom and I am not a technical person so easy and simple processing is what I love. Thank you for your insights and sharing your extensive knowledge.
Glad it was helpful! I always appreciate your comments.
Well stated and appropriately passionate.....
It’s the only way I know ❤️ thanks for the comment ED.
Thank you so much for sharing your thinking about creativity and artistic freedom. I am so much on the same page.
Loved your comparative illustration between vocabulary and photo editing, perfect!
Good words and thoughts.
Absolutely wonderful video, thanks so much it has given me confidence.
Thnx Alister. Another lesson for me learned.
Thanks Alister for those thoughtful words. I'm on the threshold of changing my life. I'm 69 and I'm going to retire so that I can start living my life and spend more time outside with the camera, that's where I am the happiest. I really enjoy my photography and I know that I will have the chance at last to develop it more creatively. I've allowed myself to get bogged down with the technicalities of image processing and going round in circles trying to improve. Retirement will be a saving grace as I'll be able to sit back and think what it is I'm trying to say. Thank you for those timely words, Alister, I did watch your video to the end, and previous one too.
Thank you for this insightfull video. As Nick points out here, it is a bit of a balance: maybe a new technique extends your creativity as in 'i never realized this is even possible'. Having a tool at hand and knowing how to use it cán make you a better craftsman - whatever the craft may be.
I agree with Nick, new techniques are useful. I also believe too much attention to learning new skills before consolidating the basics of feel and emotion will ultimately lead to accurate, soulless images. Thanks for your comment.
Thank you Alister for putting this perspective out there. I agree we do get pressured into believing that fully understanding those more technical skills are essential if we want to be a worthwhile photographer. I have been beating myself up over my limited skills but you have hit the nail on the head in this film. I feel less anxious now. Also, congratulations on your 200th E.P. UA-cam film 🙂
So well said! Thank you so much!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for this message - it was timely. A few days ago i was really struck by the display of a landscape photographer in a local market. I later found via Google the Artist has won many awards but the emotional impact came from the combination of two techniques not often combined in the landscape genre - minimalism and ICM. His creative idea, but I suspect a lot of time to get the combinations of techniques right.
Great video Alister!
A bit fresh perhaps, but as my old mentor often noted - “A fool with a tool, is still a fool” 🙂
Very True
One of your best!
This series has been very thought provoking for me. You’ve asked some very pointed questions that I will be pondering in the coming weeks. I’ve been paring down the input from UA-cam lately because I’m tired of hearing “my way is the best, you must do it like this “ or that I must have a particular piece of gear to be successful. You make more sense than all them put together, and this is free content. This series has convinced me to sign up for your forum today. Seems to be what I’m looking for to get to a higher level while keeping true to myself.
I’m one of these photographers who has this problem. I shoot a lot of different subjects and for this reason, I will often experiment as well. While I do have the occasional wow experience, it’s mostly obsessive editing and going in circles. It’s definitely sad and it’s great having been reminded once again, about the importance of being able to enjoy the art.
I also agree with how easy it can be having insecurity about whether you’re a professional, unless you’ve got all of the techniques down as evidence and validation. Damn, what a necessary therapy session this turned out to be. Many thanks!
The more years I spend in digital processing and the more techniques I try, have led me to a similar conclusion: that less is more. When getting immersed in an image, it's easy to over-produce it. Consequently I often step back the effects - not being a fan of garish over-production. The lesson from your recent video of not using a repetitive formula for all images was invaluable. I have a tendancy towards this and have become more aware of other creative options. Thanks for your work.
Appreciate your reply, thanks so very much
"Loose yourself in playfulness." I'll give that some thought.
Thanks for that, I’m all about the pursuit of freedom ❤️
Thank you for your tutorials Alister. You are a true inspiration! With the advent of more and more applications that post process our images with the use of AI, personal creativity and expression is more at risk. I would love for you to talk about this subject in one of your future tutorials. Thank you ever so much for your teachings!
Very well explained Alister. Thanks as always.
You’re very much welcome
This resonated with me. In my own photography pursuits, I want to learn technique since I think its fun to learn new skills and I'm a technical person (I spent 35 years in IT), but I practice image making because I want to be creative. The technique is a means to that end.
Another great video! Thanks for sharing and telling so clearly what I, and I guess many photographers, feel at a certain point in our development. I took me several years to learn and understand the techniques, first of my digital camera, and later in postprocessing. When I started I thought that, once I knew how to make a ‘good’ photograph, the hard work was done and I could truly enjoy making photographs. But on the way I was beginning to understand more and more that, for me, making a technical masterpiece isn’t what photography is about. You helped me a lot with your vision and thoughts about this. To stay in your terms, now that I know how to speak, it is time to start with the toughest part: what am I going to say? Am I going to be the screamer, that will probably will get the most attention on social media? The reporter? The introvert? But I’m beginning to see there is only personality, that keeps the love I feel for photography alive, and that’s my own. And isn’t that the most scariest thing? That there is no hiding in technical skills, or in the physical landscape. That you’ll have to expose a bit of yourself, to keep the creative juices flowing and so that you can continue to love what you do. Well, I think it’s the best way so that is the direction I’m going. And I keep listening and reading to your advices in the video’s and books you share. So thanks again and keep up the good work!
I so appreciate your unique and authentic voice among photographers. I am challenged to think more clearly about my own self expression when I hear you speak! Thank you.
PS I regret that I will not meet you in person this October in Oregon!
You just articulated what I have come to realised for myself in recent months. After receiving criticism for not using a specific technique from a peer, I initially felt as though I wasn’t worthy as a photographer. But I quickly realised that the photographs were impactful to ME, and that’s what matters. It’s so reassuring to hear you ‘singing from the same hymn sheet’.
Good , we have some good Scottish expressions for what to say to people like that, sadly not very social media friendly. Stick to your own path, falling back on tired old tricks is stalemate for creativity ❤️
Wonderful thoughts!
Thank you for this talk, Alister. It really hit home for me. My day job is in the creative arts industry and over the years i've many techniques with a lot of the Adobe Products. When it comes to my weekend passion (making photographs) it's too easy to have those techniques spill into my personal photography. Over the years, i've tried to simplify my post-production work to just what I need and focus on feel and memories. I'm still a work-in-progress and this video helps keep me on the path I want to continue down. Thank you for sharing this with the community! It really goes a long way for me. Hope all is well, Alister.
Delighted to hear that man, truly I am...
There's an art to knowing which image enhancement techniques work best on a particular image.....
If you only have a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. How much technique one needs depends on what one wants to do. Most people don't need more than 7000 words for everyday communication, but if one wants to write great poetry then a larger vocabulary (more tools) is an asset. This applies to writing haikus as much as writing novels or anything else, because what is important is finding the right word, and the more words you can draw upon, the more likely it is that you can find the right word. But that's about how many tools you have to draw upon, not about how many tools you need to achieve your artistic vision, and your point about how many you need to use is a good one. I almost never use Photoshop, except for an occasional exposure blend or focus blend. Other than that, Capture One offers me all the tools I need for my artistic vision.
Like always beautiful video and all makes sens. A little but: like in any domain as soon you really know it, you are able to make it simple, to go to the essential. You have first to get to that point and know the meaning of what you do and the techniques. Knowing the techniques you are liberated and start to fly with pleasure. I am still at the struggling point and suck all your informations, different than those ibn books, into me to try to get to a new way to express myself
I agree, and this equates to what I call Command and Control... Working hard initially to gain enough skill in your chosen expressive art form to the point where you can begin to explore intuition and articulation of intent.
Words of wisdom...loved the boxing glove comment
Thanks so much ❤️
Hey there Alister. I have started re-editing a number of old images and desaturating to produce an image that represents what I saw and how I experienced it. I have never spent more than a few minutes editing an image. I bought ON1 to learn more techniques such as luminosity masks etc but find it becoming a technical experience rather than an enjoyable one. Of course, my 'new' images don't have a public impact like they used to, though I hope they appeal to those who can see the subtleties of light rather than high colour expectations that most want. My friends say I am a great photographer but sometimes I feel like a fake. I am editing to appeal to people like them and not feeling satisfied. There isn't anything wrong with a dramatic sunset, I have captured many great ones and my editing of them was minimal, the image 'spoke' with little enhancement. I would rather have respect from my peers with my creations. Anyway Alister, thanks for all your thoughts and guidance since I found your channel. Once again I am starting to look at my images and re-experiencing the joy and satisfaction I had taking them. My images are memories.
Every time I become tempted to follow the oversaturated trend I dig out the book, "Ansel Adams In Color" to remind myself that subtle color and tone is far more worthwhile than todays Photoshopped To Death images.
I heard all the words and I still understand where you want to go, what you want to convey. I agree that nowadays Lr already gives us the necessary tools for a huge majority of the images we intend to create. As long as we know what we want and how to get there.
It’s all about the why ❤️
Refreshing indeed
This is a very important video. Very!
Thanks buddy
Brilliant 🙏🏽
Excellent presentation
Thank you for this! I know for myself that getting too much into the technical just deadens the process. The process has to be enjoyable--if it's tedious and complicated - who wants that? Even if you stick with it, I suspect that in the end it will show in the work and not in a good way.
Bottomline, I believe amount or degree of processing technique should not be the measure but whether as a father of the artwork, whether I am able to bring out the message or story or engagement to the intended audience... Great thought you have brought on table and very straight, Alister, thanks for that
Cheers for that, glad it resonates
I'm fairly new to processing and have watched tons of videos on how to process and what techniques to master. I've learned a lot but there's a vast storehouse of knowledge still out there and I do want to learn it all. However, through editing it's become clear that it's not necessary nor desirable to use all the techniques all the time. Although I feel the pressure to do so. At times finding myself wondering if I've done enough and what more can I do. I've begun to start just making basic adjustments and then maybe add another here or there as they jump off the screen at me, kind of floating around the image, editing as I go. Sometimes trying different things to see what happens or what is the best way. Possibly I'll use a bunch of techniques or I may use only a couple. Finally, I may do several edits of the same shot and then go look at them later to see which I prefer. It's all rather chaotic but seems to work in a mad scientist kind of way.
does anyone else play with the slider bars in the photo tools (lightroom, darktable etc) as if they were mixing paints ? (in my case finger paints :) )
I enjoy the experimentation .. but can only start to articulate the process once I've done the same thing several times. So often if someone asks me "what did I do" I can't really explain it in any level of detail .
Such a cool comment ❤️❤️❤️
@@Alister_Benn ha :) I remember years ago - I asked a painter at a local market something along the lines of "how did you do that?" - referring to some interesting effect in one of their paintings. The guy just sort of stared at me for several seconds - and very humbly said something along the lines of "I don't really know - I mix the paints, try different tools and eventually something comes out that I like". This really baffled me ..until I started essentially doing the same thing in darktable ..
Thanks for being different, and I mean that in a good way. I suspect you are no fan of those who sell LR Preset packages either. :-) Have a good week. I’m already looking forward to next weeks’.
Haha, I wouldn't like to say! ;-)
i feel the same i only edeting in Ligthroom classic. i love to bild my phots in camera insted and spend less time edeting becus i work 2 jobbs and the photo part on wat, i have fiance och 3 cats i need to spend time to alosw but ye i work 2 jobbs to get more cash so can go ut and do the photograhy prat in my life so i dont need to strees about cash/incom
Sometimes after I finish editing a program in LR, I push it to an add-on program. And sometimes, after I come back to it, I like the less processed LR version best.
Thanks Alister. As somewhat of a perfectionist, I am guilty of trying to make a photograph that 2 or 3 percent better. Do I enjoy that, yes I do. Does anybody else notice the difference, no they don’t! Will I carry on doing this, yes I will as it is important to me. I have also been guilty in the past of trying to turn an uninspiring image to an inspiring one but this never works and thankfully I am now recognising this a lot more quickly these days. If it is not taking shape in 5 minutes or so, I move on.
In the beginning technique is sought after as a path to getting an effect. And only later technique facilitates understanding the environment of the photograph so that, as Ansel Adams said, we stop taking pictures and we become capable of making photographs.
As long as we are asking how, there can be no why ❤️
Great thoughts on processing. While I agree with a lot of it, I must say I disagree with more contrast = more impact. It might grab attention more quickly, but sometimes subtle tones, colors, and low contrast scenes really can make a huge impact compared to an overdone/oversaturated photo.
I think you disagree more because you have developed a more discerning eye, rather than the fact that for 99.99999% more contrast = more impact ;-) LOL I think we agree...
@@Alister_Benn haha, great counterpoint. I can see that being true too
Interesting how our tastes change as we learn what tastes good.
Yes it is... and that's the joy of emotional growth...
I don't usually spend long editing my images and only bring it into photoshop for focus stacking and maybe cloning some small things. I think if I'm having to do heavy editing to get it where I want then there's something wrong with the underlying image, usually inappropriate light or poor composition. I prefer to just just leave it go back out and try again.
I always try and learn something more technically speaking so that, should an image just be 2 clicks away from perfect, and those 2 clicks mean technique, then I will spend hours/days/weeks/months working on improving that technique... which, ironically, will only be used ones in a blue moon.
There is definitely some truth to this. There have been many times when I was able to achieve the look I wanted in LR and felt the need (because we have been told it's necessary as a professional) to move the image to PS and do more work, only to overdo the image. That said, there are types of photography where being very skilled in editing techniques can be a difference maker. For example, I shoot real estate/architecture where I may take up to 10 images (ambient, flash pops, window pulls, etc.) to create one image and I simply wouldn't be able to get the results I get for clients without the use of layer mask and other techniques available in PS. This separates me from some to the competition who are less skilled and mostly edit HDR images just using sliders in LR.
Absolutely, understanding when we need to go into PS is key. I still do, if I want to process in LAB, or do very clean cloning or warping. Most of the time we can get 90% of the way with basic tools.
Carry on ranting Alister, having too many processing options makes things more complicated and leads me to feel frustrated and full of self doubt , would the image look better if I used photoshop or Nik rather than Lightroom ? It’s like going out on a shoot with a bag full of lenses and a tripod , sometimes it’s a lot more enjoyable to take just one lens and go hand held
I'm pretty impressed with the tools in LR these days.
For sure ❤️
If Mr Adamus spent the amount of time on his shots as you do on yours I may find them beautiful, however, what I see is enough to stop me from taking LSD.
Art has no rules.
I don’t think you enjoy image processing all that much. My approach is somewhat different. I always look for the path of least resistance, only sometimes it gets complicated - really complicated, and it comes down to self discipline and endurance to pull off a difficult edit. It can take anywhere between a minute or even a month to make something work, and I don’t mind it at all. But if a picture is no good to start with, then there is nothing I can do to make it better.
I disagreed, I love image processing, the difference is unless it speaks to me I don’t start ❤️ I’m teasing , but fundamentally true
@@Alister_Benn Glad to make your acquaintance. I started working in Photoshop over 25 years ago, and the first thing I ever did was to figure out how to composite two scanned pieces of film together to increase the dynamic range by doing it the hard way using channel operations. Found out a couple of years ago it’s now called HDR - who knew! I don’t even think about any of it any more.
Please keep "Ranting". You always trigger the critical thinking processes in my mind, and I'm enjoying the exploration and sometimes need the reason and/or direction you provide.