For merciless pursuit, when you charge them (and consolidate), make sure your models are staggered so that when they fall back, they can't clear 6 with all their models, you only need to be within 6 of their unit (one model), not wholly within 6. It's a good strat, just need to plan for it.
Just a note on the Obliterators that you seemed to have missed: their melta profile is now only 18" range instead of 24". This means you cannot deep strike into melta range anymore, hugely nerfing their anti-tank potential.
@@stuartbanana5083 The issue is with Rapid Ingress, you still only got 2 models, meaning on average you won't even kill a Rhino profile. And for a 180 point unit AND a CP, you want to really target something more tough than a Rhino. The range reduction and limiting to 2 models together makes for such an INSANE nerf to the unit. Deep strike 4 models into melta range meant even with a bit bad luck, you likely killed even tough vehicles. Now even with average rolls you won't even kill a light vehicle - and you need to spend a CP to make it even somewhat viable. I still run Oblis because I like them, but I can't justify using them in any serious match.
Loved the video. I know some people might groan and say "uh, it's just 'man reads book' ". But you're not just reading the book. You're actively analysing how good each unit will be, actively looking for combos in the detachments, actively flicking back and forth between different sections of the book to check the wording of rules and see if things act the way you think they do... just generally commentating on your thought process. You're adding to the book in the way only an expert player can. It was a joy seeing you nerd out over a new book in the exact sam way I do and noticing things I wouldn't have. TLDR More vids like this please XD
The thing about Deceptors is that Cultists? They have Sticky Objectives. Slap three down on the midfield objectives and then run them up the field and have the legionaries act as a second line of defense or offense for the sticky'd midfield objectives, and that's just the first turn of play. And yes, Dread Talons really has issues with battleshock being how it is. I think the biggest flaw in the Chaos Cult detachment is the lack of a reinforcements strat. If there was EVER detachment that should have it, it'd be the one based on the chaos cult and their bottomless reserves of slobbering psychopaths.
I was a bit surprised there wasn't a "human shields" strategem in the Fellhammer detachment, but I see how they would want that for the cultists one. I like your observations about Deceptors. I think there are a handful of players out there, who really take their Alpha Legion seriously, that are extremely excited to see what this can do.
@@RSBurgener I'm at best a dedicated casual, and my faith has been shaken with the bodyblows the lore has taken recently. It won't stop me from enjoying my hobby, but it still hurts. Ironically, the most fun I have tends to be Homebrewing crunch and fluff. Still need to get around to familiarizing myself with the crusade rules and womping up my own, or maybe even dabbling in my own system.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 that's awesome. I made my own chapter for the first time this past year and strongly considered making my own detachment to reflect the lore I came up with. I just don't get enough games in at this point to justify it. I also bought the pariah crusade book, but had the same issue. It was easier when I was in school. Good luck with it.
For the Deceptors detachment I really like the Soul Link on Master of Execution to “borrow” death hex from a Terminator Sorcerer (who themselves have the Lone Op/Stealth enchancement) The Sorcerer can then get in closer to help with those close up starts. Renegade Raiders! I like this one Even more now. Warpcharged Engines doesn’t count as an advance move and just adds 6” to movement instead. Means Landraiders ZOOM ahead and can still disgorge the spikes bois inside. Edit: Fellhammer Seigehost absolutely wants high toughness Vechicles and monsters. Lascannons and such really only being wounded on 4s? Hell yes! I’m thinking this makes Daemon Princes, ForgeFiends… all those Much more durable against anti tank weapons. Stack on the tasty 5+ FNP and you got some crazy durable armored 7 units Great content! I get something a bit different from each channels takes on the codex reviews.
Are enhancements a data sheet ability? Because you could give the ap/precision to a chaos sorcerer in terminator armor and then give it to a CSM lord that can death hex, retool charges, and can throw down big bonkers hammer blows on just a character for fun
GW: hey, we made a detachment for Vashtor and his daemon engines! me: neat, i gotta check that out, might be an interesting army, Vashtor looks cool! GW: oh yeah, none of the detachment rules can be applied to him, he's not a vehicule me: wait, so you make a themed detachment for him, and hes basically weaker in it than in any other detachment? GW: basically, yeah
8 detachments, lots of versatile play, some buffs with some nerfs. Seems like these books recently are all really thought through and we'll put together. Necrons, orks, tau now chaos marines all interesting and big variations. Makes me wonder how long ago that custards book had been sat on a shelf waiting to come out. 😂
Letsssss Gooooooooo I love that Iron Warriors got some good representation in both Fellhammer and Soulforge! My Daemon Engines are ready! I’m also interested in the Remegades since I have a good amount of Infantry and Rhinos and a Landraider. Thinking 10 Chosen and Abbadon in the Landraider then lords and Legionnaires in the rhinos
I wish GW would do more with strats that work on enemies ABOVE half-strength. Perfect opportunity for Iron Warriors since they're the siege masters/offense type.
In my opinion, dread talons are just missing 1 last clause to their ability to make them pretty good. Just add that they get +1 to wound against battleshocked and half-strength units and that should round it out. But i do feel that it's not their fault that battleshock and leadership are not as important as it should be. Just taking away their oc and Stratagems and the fact that most units have leadership of 7, truly negates the fact that battleshock is a thing.
That is a lot of detachment comparing how many other armies got. I wonder why bikes weren't removed , while marine ones were removed. And stratagems aren't oddly locked in to unit types that don't exist.
Import change to Fabius Bile! He can now lead Accursed and Cultist Mobs making their strats even better. But he does not have scout so the accursed would not scout
The competitive mindset of not wanting restrictions is why the rules and everything with the game can't be balanced you need to have restrictions to have cool things go off to make it balance
HUGE possessed nerf. That Dev wound wasn’t limited to once per battle. It only required you to make a dark pact with them. Losing Liber Hereticus to give both sustained 1 and lethal on top of that REALLY hurts
At a quick glace, it looks like T'au have more stratagems that cost 2 CP across 4 detachments than Chaos has across 8 detachments. Seems a bit dubious.
Glad you enjoyed it! The points in the book are never used, there will be new points when the book drops, but generally expect them to be the same as they currently are
Wait, so a Chaos Lord can have 5x Daemon hammer strikes AND 5x power fist strikes as well, or am I misunderstanding something? That's awesome with the ability the Lord has, if they get the 10x attacks.
Unfortunately, for a model to swing with multiple weapons atleast one of them should have the [Extra Attacks] keyword. You are still only using one profile with the lord.
They literally just confirmed Emperors Children this edition by putting Noise Marines (See Emperors Children) in the dark pact section. The current 10th datasheets don't include emperors children in the Dark Pacts.
To bad you cant mishmash this Damned characters with damned units , AND good idea if GW allow to add IG units( some sentinels , leman russ) to this Damned datachments. And one more this codex need - Exalted champions enabled to join cultist mobs ( Yes "Lost and the Damned")
One large nerf to Oblits is the reduced range of their melta shot. With 18” range, they can no longer get the melta 2 from deep strike. 180 points for 2d3 damage 4 shots is garbage to me. Way too swingy and unreliable. I was really hoping for a rules change for them but unfortunately they made them even worse.
@@augustuslc agreed, 140 ish would be good. Would still be good for getting stuck in around an objective. And I’m sure there will be some cool synergies upon a deep dive into the book.
I can tolerate it IF the "nerf" is minor and pans out as a trade off for versatility in playstyle. Custodes did not get that. Dark Angels did not get that.
Not to mention that T'au got hit with two rounds of Forgeworld pruning. Once when players first got theirs hand on the codex from the Kroot box and again when the MFM came out a MONTH later. So bad.
@@kingoglow2186and from what I could tell, they were still accepting orders for the forgeworld range when they knew they were being discontinued for match and competition use. FW and GW are dead to me.😊
@@J.Panxer I guess now people will only be able to use those FW models (with legends rules) with their opponents permission. Just like in 5th edition, 6th edition, and 7th edition. To anyone who’s been playing for a while, this isn’t a big deal. Ironic, because we’re the ones with more forgeworld models.
duuuude cant wait to invoke my contract. gonna bring my pant suit and briefcase to the gaming table
bonus points if you shake hands with your opponent and give them a devilish grin~
@@johnj.spurgin7037 Tabletop Titans themed feathered quill merch?
Loved our game yesterday Adrian I was the CSM player with two knight karnivores!!! Thanks for a great enjoyable game and the loud waaaaaaaaaghs
Daniel! It was such a fun game thanks for the lesson on Vindicators haha
For merciless pursuit, when you charge them (and consolidate), make sure your models are staggered so that when they fall back, they can't clear 6 with all their models, you only need to be within 6 of their unit (one model), not wholly within 6. It's a good strat, just need to plan for it.
Just a note on the Obliterators that you seemed to have missed: their melta profile is now only 18" range instead of 24". This means you cannot deep strike into melta range anymore, hugely nerfing their anti-tank potential.
Rapid Ingress Gooooo!
But you’re right, they are a more high investment, especially where you’re limited to 2 models.
@@stuartbanana5083 The issue is with Rapid Ingress, you still only got 2 models, meaning on average you won't even kill a Rhino profile. And for a 180 point unit AND a CP, you want to really target something more tough than a Rhino.
The range reduction and limiting to 2 models together makes for such an INSANE nerf to the unit. Deep strike 4 models into melta range meant even with a bit bad luck, you likely killed even tough vehicles. Now even with average rolls you won't even kill a light vehicle - and you need to spend a CP to make it even somewhat viable.
I still run Oblis because I like them, but I can't justify using them in any serious match.
below starting strength within 12 is honestly pretty doable, i think they might be okay!
Loved the video. I know some people might groan and say "uh, it's just 'man reads book' ". But you're not just reading the book. You're actively analysing how good each unit will be, actively looking for combos in the detachments, actively flicking back and forth between different sections of the book to check the wording of rules and see if things act the way you think they do... just generally commentating on your thought process.
You're adding to the book in the way only an expert player can. It was a joy seeing you nerd out over a new book in the exact sam way I do and noticing things I wouldn't have.
TLDR More vids like this please XD
The thing about Deceptors is that Cultists? They have Sticky Objectives. Slap three down on the midfield objectives and then run them up the field and have the legionaries act as a second line of defense or offense for the sticky'd midfield objectives, and that's just the first turn of play.
And yes, Dread Talons really has issues with battleshock being how it is.
I think the biggest flaw in the Chaos Cult detachment is the lack of a reinforcements strat. If there was EVER detachment that should have it, it'd be the one based on the chaos cult and their bottomless reserves of slobbering psychopaths.
Only risk to starting on objectives is instantly giving up Storm Hostile Objective.
@Xynth25 you could stonewall that with the legionaries maybe? Depends on if your enemy has their own infiltrate though.
I was a bit surprised there wasn't a "human shields" strategem in the Fellhammer detachment, but I see how they would want that for the cultists one. I like your observations about Deceptors. I think there are a handful of players out there, who really take their Alpha Legion seriously, that are extremely excited to see what this can do.
@@RSBurgener I'm at best a dedicated casual, and my faith has been shaken with the bodyblows the lore has taken recently. It won't stop me from enjoying my hobby, but it still hurts.
Ironically, the most fun I have tends to be Homebrewing crunch and fluff.
Still need to get around to familiarizing myself with the crusade rules and womping up my own, or maybe even dabbling in my own system.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 that's awesome. I made my own chapter for the first time this past year and strongly considered making my own detachment to reflect the lore I came up with. I just don't get enough games in at this point to justify it. I also bought the pariah crusade book, but had the same issue. It was easier when I was in school. Good luck with it.
The fight first stratagem in veterans of long war can only be used if charged by your focus of hatred
For the Deceptors detachment I really like the Soul Link on Master of Execution to “borrow” death hex from a Terminator Sorcerer (who themselves have the Lone Op/Stealth enchancement)
The Sorcerer can then get in closer to help with those close up starts.
Renegade Raiders! I like this one Even more now. Warpcharged Engines doesn’t count as an advance move and just adds 6” to movement instead. Means Landraiders ZOOM ahead and can still disgorge the spikes bois inside.
Edit: Fellhammer Seigehost absolutely wants high toughness Vechicles and monsters. Lascannons and such really only being wounded on 4s? Hell yes! I’m thinking this makes Daemon Princes, ForgeFiends… all those Much more durable against anti tank weapons. Stack on the tasty 5+ FNP and you got some crazy durable armored 7 units
Great content! I get something a bit different from each channels takes on the codex reviews.
Overall really hype for this, Warp Talons seem wild. Kinda sad the MoP and Posessed caught strays, most of their crimes were committed so long ago now
let the galaxy Burn can be nice with Plague marines combo..
don't know about the cultist detachment now that the cultists have been nerfed so much, they have to be even cheaper now.
Yeah cultists got screwed bad.
Are enhancements a data sheet ability? Because you could give the ap/precision to a chaos sorcerer in terminator armor and then give it to a CSM lord that can death hex, retool charges, and can throw down big bonkers hammer blows on just a character for fun
No, Soul Link only concerns the datasheet abilities (so for example the reroll and gain 1 CP from the Master of Execution)
GW: hey, we made a detachment for Vashtor and his daemon engines!
me: neat, i gotta check that out, might be an interesting army, Vashtor looks cool!
GW: oh yeah, none of the detachment rules can be applied to him, he's not a vehicule
me: wait, so you make a themed detachment for him, and hes basically weaker in it than in any other detachment?
GW: basically, yeah
Lord discordant is such an awesome model, I would pick him up but in a casual setting it just doesn’t seem viable enough.
8 detachments, lots of versatile play, some buffs with some nerfs. Seems like these books recently are all really thought through and we'll put together. Necrons, orks, tau now chaos marines all interesting and big variations.
Makes me wonder how long ago that custards book had been sat on a shelf waiting to come out. 😂
Custodes and Dark angels to a lesser degree got stabbed in the back
6-ish months I'd say.
Renegade raider detachment looks great. Really fun way to get different models you may have on the table 👍
Cant wait to see Adrian piloting this codex and making it look just absolutely
I know that could be a long shot, but Tabletop Titans can I ask you for a simple reel video on the new Combat Patrol rules/sheets? Thank you
from what i can see warp talons are better then bikes now as a fast units.
Letsssss Gooooooooo
I love that Iron Warriors got some good representation in both Fellhammer and Soulforge! My Daemon Engines are ready!
I’m also interested in the Remegades since I have a good amount of Infantry and Rhinos and a Landraider.
Thinking 10 Chosen and Abbadon in the Landraider then lords and Legionnaires in the rhinos
Man reads book. Love it! Abaddon got better as he can join Chosen now :P
“… just because Heldrakes are cool!”
Shroud is really good with a termi sorcerer
sadly they (traitor guardsmen) cant take 3 melta, it says one of each no duplicates
So sad, thanks though!
@@TabletopTitans aye, not a fan of flamer melta sniper, such diff weapons. lemme have a squad of 1 wep type D:
1:06:47 dimethol hephestus coral.
Thank you for the rundown.
The warp talons rapid ingress cycle charge is gonna be nasty
Right?
I wish GW would do more with strats that work on enemies ABOVE half-strength. Perfect opportunity for Iron Warriors since they're the siege masters/offense type.
In my opinion, dread talons are just missing 1 last clause to their ability to make them pretty good. Just add that they get +1 to wound against battleshocked and half-strength units and that should round it out. But i do feel that it's not their fault that battleshock and leadership are not as important as it should be. Just taking away their oc and Stratagems and the fact that most units have leadership of 7, truly negates the fact that battleshock is a thing.
New Adeptus Custodes Combat Patrol game soon
That is a lot of detachment comparing how many other armies got. I wonder why bikes weren't removed , while marine ones were removed. And stratagems aren't oddly locked in to unit types that don't exist.
36:20 It's not as bad as it looks, you only need one of those conditions to be true.
Loving these book reviews. Covering a good amount. But not a 4 hour long deep dive.
They removed the exalted champion? For shame, I loved that character. Now I have to find a new use for him.
The cover art is literally the same as 9th, $50 is absolutely robbery
Iron Artiface on Combi Weapons too give dev wounds and on like a brick of termiies could really hurt
This is only concerning the model, not the unit.
Import change to Fabius Bile!
He can now lead Accursed and Cultist Mobs making their strats even better. But he does not have scout so the accursed would not scout
Raptors now force battleshock and with the fear detachment it's at -2!!!!
The competitive mindset of not wanting restrictions is why the rules and everything with the game can't be balanced you need to have restrictions to have cool things go off to make it balance
Totally! It's just a matter of making the restrictions appropriate
HUGE possessed nerf. That Dev wound wasn’t limited to once per battle. It only required you to make a dark pact with them. Losing Liber Hereticus to give both sustained 1 and lethal on top of that REALLY hurts
Liber was a nonbo, you don't want Lethals when you're rolling for Dev Wounds.
I think they are still very strong. They are only 130 pts, and in some detachments they seem excellents.
Pretty sure traitor guard can't take multiple special weapons of the same type. So likely no 3 melts guns.
Yeah it does state Duplicates are not allowed
must be because of the kit's loadout itself?
At a quick glace, it looks like T'au have more stratagems that cost 2 CP across 4 detachments than Chaos has across 8 detachments. Seems a bit dubious.
Great video but... I didnt see the points
Glad you enjoyed it! The points in the book are never used, there will be new points when the book drops, but generally expect them to be the same as they currently are
No Greater Possessed?
Wait, so a Chaos Lord can have 5x Daemon hammer strikes AND 5x power fist strikes as well, or am I misunderstanding something? That's awesome with the ability the Lord has, if they get the 10x attacks.
Unfortunately, for a model to swing with multiple weapons atleast one of them should have the [Extra Attacks] keyword. You are still only using one profile with the lord.
Idk why people can't remember this. It's simple: one weapon plus whatever has "extra attacks".
@@fmalch1209 For most armies, this almost never comes up. Also, I still mix a lot of the 10th and 9th edition rules. So that's why.
They literally just confirmed Emperors Children this edition by putting Noise Marines (See Emperors Children) in the dark pact section. The current 10th datasheets don't include emperors children in the Dark Pacts.
To bad you cant mishmash this Damned characters with damned units , AND good idea if GW allow to add IG units( some sentinels , leman russ) to this Damned datachments. And one more this codex need - Exalted champions enabled to join cultist mobs ( Yes "Lost and the Damned")
aren't exalted champions WL now?
And crusade rules?!?!?!?!?!
Venomcrawlers nad Maulerfiend are NOT the same :-)
One large nerf to Oblits is the reduced range of their melta shot. With 18” range, they can no longer get the melta 2 from deep strike.
180 points for 2d3 damage 4 shots is garbage to me. Way too swingy and unreliable.
I was really hoping for a rules change for them but unfortunately they made them even worse.
It will all depend on the new points, with this nerfs I think they would be viable at 70-80 point range
@@augustuslc agreed, 140 ish would be good. Would still be good for getting stuck in around an objective. And I’m sure there will be some cool synergies upon a deep dive into the book.
Honestly I'm hating this trend of the codex nerfing the indexes.
i think thats fair but my god the powercreep last edition was horrible for me, so i think i prefer some nerfs with new options, vs just glow ups
@@HankGlamorousthis codex already shows sign of creep - black legion gets both chaos and loyalist army rules ffs.
I'm not sure you know what this "nerf" word means.
I can tolerate it IF the "nerf" is minor and pans out as a trade off for versatility in playstyle. Custodes did not get that. Dark Angels did not get that.
@@uncletre6924 when things are worse than before...
I would disagree and say that the Pactful Zealots is a horrible and un-flavourful representation of Word Bearers
Depressing to watch as a Custodes player. What a codex could have been like.....first Ork codex and now this
Just play your golden boys as Fellhammer Siege-Host terminators
@@uncletre6924not WYSIWYG. Plus you can't take more more then three units of those and custodes run more then three units.
The Ork codex is good. This codex is underwhelming.
Nurgle Bless Our Constitution In The Kindest Of Ways, Chat. This is Awesome
Stop Capitalizing Every Word Matt the Grifter
So did they lose half of the characters and their entire forgeworld range? Oh, that was Tau, sorry.
Not to mention that T'au got hit with two rounds of Forgeworld pruning. Once when players first got theirs hand on the codex from the Kroot box and again when the MFM came out a MONTH later. So bad.
@@kingoglow2186and from what I could tell, they were still accepting orders for the forgeworld range when they knew they were being discontinued for match and competition use.
FW and GW are dead to me.😊
They already list most of the forgeworld units. Back when the indexes came in and marines lost the heresy plastic kits.
@@J.Panxer I guess now people will only be able to use those FW models (with legends rules) with their opponents permission. Just like in 5th edition, 6th edition, and 7th edition. To anyone who’s been playing for a while, this isn’t a big deal. Ironic, because we’re the ones with more forgeworld models.
Orks lost a couple finecast characters and 90%+ of their FW range. RIP Squiggoth.
A book full of gimmicks that dont compensate for the massive damage nerf CSM just recieved. Some of the detachments are meh most are hot garbage.