Is this the BEST USB cable I've tried? Tubulus Concentus USB review
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Buy Tubulus Concentus USB: www.tubulus.net/product/tubul...
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A short review of the Tubulus Concentus USB cable including comparisons with the Supra Excalibur and Curious Evolved USB cables.
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00:00 Introduction
01:00 Tubulus Concentus vs Supra Excalibur
03:57 Tubulus Concentus vs Curious Evolved USB
09:27 Wrap-up
#audiophile #audioreview #usbcable - Наука та технологія
I've heard a respected figure in the hifi industry say that more expensive cables came into existence because people with bigger pockets wanted to spend more, the difference is largely in the construction presentation and packaging rather then the function.
This definitively applies to the ultra high end where you can easily spend $15,000 for a single Coax cable. I got that number by looking at a high end store just now. The cables in this video are still cheap enough that you're getting something for the money.
There is a level of truth to the idea of products being priced to the market. This happens in every industry (rightly or wrongly), but it's at higher levels normally as DasManko said.
There are two key factors to consider in this equation:
1) it's reasonable for companies to price products to their level of performance so if its performance justifies its price then I think it's ok
2) sadly, people will overlook a cheaper product even if it performs as well because the natural assumption is that the more expensive one must be better. In other words, our purchasing behaviours drive retail pricing.
If an LV bag sells for $100 instead of $1,000, I know many people won’t buy it.
There is absolutely an element of that too!
Wait, is it April 1st already?
@@fisherman9435starting to seem that way.
I’m very late on this review, but wanna confirm something important. When you compared the curious vs the tubulus, did you use the dmp8 for both.
Because the dmp8 does pushes the soundstage back, I wanted to make sure that both were tested with the dmp8?
Wanted to make sure that the tubulus is deeper before making a choice.
Yes, whenever I do a test like this all of the source chain remains constant and ONLY the cable changes. 🙂
Hi Lachlan, do you think USB cables are worth it if your digital source computer is noisy? I stream music from my gaming PC which has a RTX 3080 graphics card and I think it is gonna inject lots of noise in the cables. Should I buy USB cable first or some USB signal purifier like from IFI Ipurifier 3 ?
I'd invest in something to improve the source first. I haven't played with the iFi gear, but that seems to be a good option. The JCat or Matrix USB cards and Singxer SU-6 DDC are also great options.
what motherboard you have matters more than any other component in your PC, and to some extent your power supply . So, if nothing else next PC you build you could bring everything over except buy a new higher end mobo. Going to even an Asus Hero , for instance, will make a pretty big difference. If the noise is a humming, that could be solved by a Ground Loop Hum Exterminator. What Lachlan said is also spot on.
@@CrackaSlapYa Thank you I will definitely try the asus hero motherboard.
What kind of USB cable would you recommend for a Bifrost 2/64 plugged in to a PC? I use a Jotunheim 2 with balanced cables, I swap between a Focal Clear MG and Focal Radiance. I'm currently using just a USB cable I got ages ago I think from the Schiit website when I got my Modi and realized it didn't use Type-A but have been using it on the Bifrost 2/64.
I wouldn't recommend going overboard on a USB cable for the Bifrost 2 because the cable is a minor piece of the puzzle compared to the main components. Something like the Supra Excalibur could be a nice option without spending too much.
Of course, if you're planning on upgrading further in the future, you could buy the Tubulus Concentus now and upgrade around it later.
@@PassionforSound Ah I see, that is a very good point. I'll go with the Supra Excalibur, it's about a fifth of the cost of what I paid for my Bifrost 2, but I don't mind that too much if it's a really good component anyway. I'm really interested to see how it goes with a different cable. I very much doubt I'll ever upgrade beyond my current DAC and Amplifier setup, but who knows. Thanks for the help. Keep up the good work with the videos too btw.
Can’t stay subbed. Sorry, but this is nuts.
You might want to check back in during 2024 because I seem to have finally found some peer reviewed studies that demonstrate via objective measurements how cables influence the signals travelling along them. I'll leave it up to you.
@@PassionforSoundhahaha! I would LOVE to see that ever show up! Where is it?
The articles are on analog interconnects - I had thought they were on USB as well. I'll be producing something on them at some stage, but finding the time in amongst the constant flow of products is tricky.
@@PassionforSound So, what could be a good video for you, is for you to research how you came to believe you could hear a difference between different USB cables when in reality you are only tricking yourself.
alright mate, Is there any chance you could try the Xangsane 4n silver usb cable, ive heard good things about them and they are not too expensive, would love to hear your take on it. Thank you
I don't currently have any plans to review it and have lots of other gear already in the queue, but we'll see...
no worries mate, just a thought thanks@@PassionforSound
What level of gear and were you using to discern these differences? I'm assuming at entry level or mid-fi gear and using "normal" music, cables are not that critical?
He tells us what the system used is at the start of the video.
Yes, there's no point spending this type of money if your system isn't worth vastly more. I don't say that to suggest people need to spend lots of money on their gear, just that investment should be prioritised to where it makes the most sense. Cable upgrades are a "last piece of the puzzle" investment to me, or at least a purchase you make knowing where you are headed in the long run. Something like a Supra Excalibur is a nice premium, but not crazy expensive alternative.
@@michaellichnovsky8397 thnx, my bad
Yeah it's crazy some of the cables out there and their prices. I recently swapped my Asgard 3 for a Jotunheim 2 and this cable's price is right between the 2 Amplifiers
USB cables transfer binary numbers via 1’s and 0’s, represented as high and low voltages (thresholds). It’s ridiculous to think two different cables that are not faulty sound different.
Yeah and amps and dacs all have noise floors below human hearing, so they dont sound different huh?
Well yeah on paper, a lot of DACs and Amps should sound similar or the same, but i've only used 2 DACs and 3 Amplifiers and they all sound different. So maybe there is a difference with cables
Amps and DACs have components that operate in the analogue domain.
@@dangerzone007 and the data gets turned to analouge, and not by an instant magic jitter free light speed button.
Plus class D amps exist, and youd say that all class D amps sound the same lol?
I'm glad you're brave enough to do a video on this. People getting hot about differences in USB cables probably have never compared them. I can tell a difference between cheap usb cables on my old modi/magni stack. I'd love some sub-$100 usb cable reviews.
Yep, I'll always keep sharing cable reviews as I know I'm not alone with the enjoyment of exploring all kinds of tweaks.
I'll see what cheap cables pop up for me to try. Any specific cables you want to draw my attention to?
@@PassionforSound Thanks! Don't have any that I'm looking at right now. Been kinda surprised at results I've seen at comparing the cheap cables I had on hand. An Amazon Basics cable was a little better than the cable that came with my Focusrite interface. Might be interesting to compare the Amazon Basics to Belkin to the cheaper Audioquest or something. I honestly haven't looked into a lot of USB cables targeting audio. Just seemed like the ones that came into my awareness were well out of my budget.
That's an interesting point. This is just a theory, but I imagine you need to hit a certain price level before the R&D required for significant audible benefits kicks in. There's no doubt some trickle down from higher models with brands like AudioQuest though.
I'll see what I can arrange in the future...
@@PassionforSound Maybe so. The differences between the cheapies I have are like around 2%. You really have to be looking for them but they're there. But that little overall 2% can make a (subtle) difference in the engagement with the music.
I just wouldn't be interested in trying to justify more than a $100 USB cable to my wife. Ha
Anyone can hear the difference between cheap, and expensive USB cables, if they know which is which beforehand, do a blind listening test, based purely on audio quality, and see if you can still tell them apart.
I like the impromptu reviews. These are reviews when you're most excited about the new products. The only thing, i found your head, face and overall setting a bit bright compared to your usual videos. A bit less lighting would fix that for me. Btw, when i first started this video, for a moment I considered dimming the monitor, it was such a contrast to your STUNNING design inside and out! Effect Audio CODE 24 & CODE 24C cables video I came from.
Yes, the webcam I use for this type of filming can't do as good of a job as my dedicated camera. I'll try to find a better lighting setup for next time. 😉
For this price buy DDC and be happy!
I agree that a DDC can be a better investment if it suits. For some people, limited space and portability might make it less viable though. 🙂
Unfortunately, I even heard differences between USB cables with a reclocker/ddc 😢
But I completely agree with you, for this price I don’t think I would ever buy a single USB cable. DDC gets my vote! 😂
I have a xDuoo MX-01 5.3 /BlueDento 5.2 Bluetooth transmitters that I’ve been using to upgrade my xDuoo TA22/TA30 from aptX only to aptX-HD and aptX-LL respectively.
This BT transmitter requires two usb-c connectors. One for power and another for usb-source connection.
I’ve purchased two pure silver usb cables.
I can definitely hear their transparency and clarity pure silver is known for.
When I put my DeWalt usb-c in the source port, it sounded flat and contained. As a power cord, with silver as a source cord, it’s not as clear as the both silver cables together.
I’ve also tried a silver plated usb that creates a brighter, less smooth sound.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
Would like to know how Tubulus compares to the Wireworld platinum starlight 8
I'll have to see if I can get a Tubulus and then get my hands on a WW USB in the future.
Thanks!
Thanks so much (as always) for the support!
@@PassionforSound Hey, I ordered the Tubulus Concentus in .5 meter. I had to find out for myself if it replaces my Curious Evolved between my Mac Mini Pro and Mscaler. Let you know!
Oh yay! I hope you love it. Please let me know!
What if we have DDC in chain? Do we need expensive USB cable in that case
Yes. It acts as a bottleneck to your DDC
In my experience, a decent DDC like a Singxer SU-6 seems to negate the need for a good USB, but the cable AFTER the DDC (e.g. coax, IIS, etc.) does seem to matter.
@@PassionforSoundI own a Denafrips Hermes DDC and I easily can hear the difference between to Supraa usb cables.
My chain is USB (with Filter) - Reclocker - DDC - Toslink - DAC. Even there are smaller but clearly audible differences between some USB cables. But i have to agree, the connection after the ddc is a bit more important. After all, it’s still system dependent, so just try it and if you can’t hear a difference, just send the cable back.
That's a good point. The specific DDC in use might have a role to play too.
I be interested in a comparison of these USB cables and a cable from Pine Tree Audio called Banshee 2.0; which is a *very* reasonably priced hand made cable with separate power and signal conductors. It is just $80 for a 4 foot cable.
The only difference is price. The same goes for the $80 vs a $15 cable.
I'll see what I can arrange in the future, Neil
@PassionforSound ... well I am a believer of cables, power supplies etc. ... bought one on your recommendation.
Thanks for the support, Nuno. I'm glad I've been able to help.
Is there a value to using a high end usb cable like this if your using a good dac with a good dedicated streamer? Seems like something like this would benefit most someone using their laptop to stream.
Plenty of streamers have USB out. Innuos streamers, for example.
@@mat.b. most dacs and streamers have a half dozen ways of connecting the two together.
Yes, this cable actually came to my attention after being recommended by the streamer brand 432 to connect their streamers to DACs. It's a great choice from a computer or a streamer.
@@PassionforSound thank u
@@backrack01 I'm so used to streamers using i2s/aes as the 'optimal' output that I forgot USB was even an option these days
I have this and the V2 I2S cables and love them. I doubt I'll buy any other cables. Unsure if it was mentioned but from high end cables they have free shipping (and fast) was less than a week to arrive here on the Gold Coast, Australia.
I bought the USB first and was impressed and then bought the I2S and was blown away with it in my PC Audio DAC/Transport
I know a lot say 'snake oil' but if my wife can hear the difference (I had a wireworld cable prior)
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Steve!
I enjoy these little off the cuff reviews, Lachlan, very much, and I'm interested in that cable as well. I would love to review it on my channel. I have curious evolved just like you.👍🎧🙂
Thanks Shane. I'd lend you this one, but it's not mine (on loan). If I get one, I'll be glad to send it your way for a review.
@PassionforSound you may be able to hear it yourself down here in my room when we're shooting some content mate.👍😁
Sounds great!
It's time to test also the Tubulus Concentus I2s/HDMI too !!! please do that!
I'd love to! Just need to get one 🙂
How does it compare to the Audioquest Diamond? I have the AQ Diamond and the sound is perfectly balanced between musicality and technicalities
Totally, I love the musicality of my cables as well😂
@@FruggieMorton Buy better gear lol. They make audible difference, but when our minds are subjected to being pressured during ABX test, we lose the ability to distinguish between them as well as other cables
I'm not a huge fan of the Diamond USB. I feel like it doesn't provide a much soundstage depth as options like the Curious Evolved and Concentus. In other words, I'd choose the Concentus over it.
@@PassionforSound Thanks! Will definitely keep that on the lookout, but seems like a separate cable assembly of power and data seem to improve that aspect. If the musicality/tonality of concentus is perfect just like the AQ Diamond this would be the direction that I should go forward
Does this cable sounds better directly to a dac or through a ddc?
A DDC seems to negate the importance of the incoming USB cable so don't bother using an expensive cable before a DDC. I do still find that the cable AFTER the DDC matters (e.g. coax, IIS, etc.)
Thanks! Very good to know, but would you invest in a expensive usb cable or a ddc? Because they cost almost the same sometimes haha
It all depends on someone's needs. A DDC is probably the best option, but will also require additional space and cables. Plus, you're going to still be buying a quality cable to go from the DDC to the DAC.
I love it! I can't wait for your Curious USB cable vs Tubulus Concentus USB😁
The Concentus has already won. Now it's just a question of me getting one to replace the Curious. 🙂
@@PassionforSound I have Curious USB and XLR cables. I have heard good things about Tubulus in the forums. Now your video review got me thinking of trying out Tubulus Concentus USB/XLR😁 ...Does the Tubulus Concentus USB have that analog smooth type sound like the Curious? I like a little tube smoothness but fast and slam to my audio. High pitch symbol hits and high pitch voices all in my face gets on my nerves😅 ...Thanks!
My system:
Choco Sound emei
Orchard Audio (AKM) latest AK4499EXEQ chip DAC
Totem Tribe Towers
Curious USB and XLR cables
I found that the Concentus was almost the same tonally as the Curious Evolved, but delivered a larger soundstage (mostly depth).
@@PassionforSound Thanks!😁
I wish there was a way to measure digital cables. It makes no sense to me that digital cables if properly shielded would sound different, but I have heard it myself between an Audioquest forest vs Audioquest carbon and a Supra USB cable. It bothers me and intrigues me at the same time. If you do a full review, I would love to hear your thoughts on an appropriately priced cable for a 1000 to 2000 dollar DAC.
Get a used ifi gemini 1.0
I think the main problem here is that we are assuming that what we hear CAN be measured. That's is mostly not true... we can approximate some variables and we can measure some electrical elements... finally I belive you need a revealing system. Now before you get angry ... just remember, you watched this review despite believing that cables don't make a difference 😂
@@nunoferraz5426 Cant measure everything yet, but we should be able to given enough time, and when people wake up and realize cables change the sound.
@@Hetsu.. 100% they have an impact.. why? Is it Electrical interference? Purity of silver ...have NO CLUE. BUT... they do including power supplies vs power switches etc. Its all insane... but it does.
@@nunoferraz5426 We dont know because people are far too close minded, and refuse to actually use their ears.
Thank you for posting.
My pleasure. Thanks for the friendly comment 🙂
Quite a few manufacturers of CD transports and DACs specify a USB 2.0 standard spec cable in order to guarantee functionality. I note that many audiophile cable manufacturers don't actually specify the cable as USB 2.0 standard. I wonder why this is?
I'm hoping you're not trolling and actually want an answer: Since it's not really needed for 2.0 or lower (although lower is quite dead atm), it's more important that the devices supports it rather than the cable itself, it's just a medium for the initial negotiation between the devices unlike some higher USB versions that have active parts in the chain of negotiation (for determining max power, bandwidth etc).
@@tobiaxelsson Thanks for the reply. This thought started when I read on Head-fi about users of the URD having issues caused by non-compliant USB cables. They were advised to buy a cheap (Monoprice I think) cable to solve the issues. I own an expensive Audioquest USB cable but moving forward I want to get a USB out CD transport (URD/ET-3 etc) so hence my curiosity...
@@Krell666 That is strange, but I would actually partially blame Schiit for not doing proper IOT testing (interoperability), since that kind of issues would have been quite evident there. For all standards there are some values for most parameters to stay inside using predetermined scenarios (although I'm not an expert on USB by any means). And if you're unlucky or have been a bit lazy with your testing you might end up just at the border and thus not working with a lot of cables/devices or at least very sensitive to values outside those predetermined scenarios. But it's normally quite rare unless you have some serious length on the cables or attach something like a filter.
I'm having intermittent USB disfunction between Urd and Bifrost (Audioquest USB). its good when it works, but when its bad, it shuts down the music.@@Krell666
I had a bit of a challenge with the Urd too, but it seemed more about the downstream DAC rather than the cable (I think)
All well and good, but you forgot the most important criteria for audiophiles: Did the wife, who is NOT an audiophile, hear the difference from another room?
From the other room? No. But when I've tested her before without her knowing what I'm doing, she's heard the differences and described them exactly as I hear them (with no prompting of course)
@@PassionforSound But were you both blindfolded for proper double blind testing?
😂
Yes, the bruises took weeks to heal after running into the tables and walls so many times
@@PassionforSound All kidding aside though: While the idea of spending that kind of cash on a USB cable makes me chuckle a little (while regular folks would consider me insane because I've spent 200 for mine 😂), I highly enjoy your channel and because of your videos I have driven to another city to check out ZMF headphones.
@SG-ym1dm I'm glad I've been able to help. I believe I have a couple of more affordable cables here now that might be competitive with some of the more expensive ones.
I thought it was April 1st 😂
for this price I might compare with Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB 2.0
I'd be interested to try that. I owned a pair of their interconnects for a while and they were excellent
Nice review 👍 I appreciate your insight.
My pleasure. I'm glad you liked it
You should do speed tests for these cable reviews. If both cables transmit data at a bit rate higher than what the digital source requires, then it is safe to conclude that all of these "differences" are in your head.
That's not accurate because sound quality can be altered by noise picked up by the cable and fed into the DAC.
@@PassionforSound proper insulation is not expensive. It doesn't require expensive cables and should be universal.
Perhaps there's more to it. I can only tell you what I've heard and the best explanation I've found for it to date.
@@PassionforSound there isn't. Also, blind tests have never shown a difference between USB cables.
What is the explanation that you are referring to? I didn't see it in your video.
I didn't include it in the video. It's in my comment above re noise
Thank you for the video. I really appreciate the characteristics of each cable that you mention. I'm really interested in more comparisons between USB cables in your upcoming videos.
Thanks Dimitris! I've got the Tellurium USB here now for a review in 2024.
I've been searching for a USB-A to USB-B cable for my Lynx Hilo, without the power wires (or at least, without the connectors) but to no avail.
I will probably just buy a good quality cable and break-off the power connectors on the USB-A end.
Incidentally, Lachlan, has Tubulus ever committed any threatening behaviour towards you, since, on their website it is stated, "...we *threat* the silver conductors with a special thermo-process."?
How do you think they got a cable on the channel? 😉😂
@@PassionforSound, that explains it! 😲
Ifi has a dual cable you can not plug the power end into. I have one it's good, but I recommend the lush^3 it's the best usb cable by far. By far. Seriously.
The problem is that even cable “designers” don’t normally publish reading materials that explain how USB cables affect sound quality. They should know this stuff, unless their cable designs are arbitrary hit or miss, or hate to say snake oil. The general lack of scientific information that is digestible by the public is why this remains a hot debate.
There is almost no other industry (outside of pharma) where manufacturers are asked to publish scientific papers to prove their marketing. This is just a case of extreme scepticism. If people don't believe cables do anything, don't buy them. It's no different to not buying a dishwasher with a fancy power jet feature. You wouldn't ask the company for a scientific study of its efficacy, you'd just buy it or not buy it.
@@PassionforSound While we agree on that point, the unfortunate/fortunate fact is that today's "informed" enthusiasts search for proof and information. Therefore, there will always be folks who would rather endlessly debate the topic online, instead of actually spending time actually listening and testing the products.
Happy holidays!
Yes, that is very true (and sad when it gets in the way of people being able to enjoy the hobby). Happy holidays to you too!
They should and they typically do but they don't want to because they know it's snake oil. For testing cables cable tester exists. These show you how good the quality of them is. This is shown via an eye diagram and the more open the eye is and the more the signal lines overlap each other the better. But there is a reason why vendors don't show the results of these because a lot are just garbage. The specification for USB cables are open and only if you want to certify a cable you need to have them tested. But these days basically no USB cable is certified anymore.
If such a cable makes a difference the DAC isn't a good one. For good audio quality you either want to have a small buffer to retransmit bad packets or use coding which allows to detect and correct signal errors. So the only way the signals can have an impact is if there are to much transmission errors and then it's just a bad cable.
The only way a non bad USB cable can influence the audio quality is if the device is powered by USB. The power on USB isn't very stable and the voltage variates a lot depending on the load. So such devices need to have a lot and good capacitors to stabilize power. The higher the power demand of the device the more important the quality of the power lines of the cable become. Like that the wire is good enough to not cause a voltage drop when more current flows. So to still have a low resistance power line of the cable even for a high load. But it sounds crazy to me to use such a cable to improve the sound quality of a USB powered DAC. So either the DAC should have a really good filtering to begin with or much better should be powered externally.
The industry, in order to make more money they must dress up the cables , give it fancy names and sale it a high price because low price would seem not worth it . A great dac , amp and streamer one is good.
Has the reviewer listened to and compared usb cables in a blind test? Much of what we think we can hear as improvement when comparing cables is down to confirmation bias. Digitial USB cables have been used for decades in computers, and computers are highy dependent on accurate transmission of digital data, otherwise they would just not work.
Data transfer includes data checking and resending. The USB audio protocol does not, but it's also about more than that: like how much noise is the cable transferring into the DAC and what impact is that most having on the DACs clock and other circuits?
I wish I had one, but, I only paid $110 for a 2 meter Excalibur- vs Euros720 ($780) for a 2 meter Tubulus Concentus.
The Excalibur is still an excellent cable. Perhaps you can upgrade one day and on sell the Excalibur.
yep. it sounds great. I have the Gungnir Multibit w/ Unison > Flux Mentor > HeK Stealth (and a Tungsten SS order in) so for this level of kit the Excalibur seems like a solid match. It's a gorgeous cable as well. @@PassionforSound
I was just thinking if I want to spend more for a USB cable and which to get 😂
These kind of reviews should be backed by some kind of objective tests, also no cable should cost more than a decent DAC, so for example is a Schiit Modi Multibit costs $250 the most you can spend on a cable should be $80 to $100. I know audiophiles have a need to spend lots of money to the right fancy marketing words, and most can't even hear the higher frequencies, so they want to believe that they have the best sound.
There got to be a way to test the truth about these usb cables, maybe use a very long 15m or 20m cheap and expensive cable and record several times the same song, that was recorded from the previous recording and hear if the deterioration of the sound is less on the expensive cables or is it the same.
In HDD and SDD storage the data can suffer "bitrot" that is when a 0 is flipped by accident to a 1 or a 1 to a 0, that's the only possibility that I can think off that can affect digital cables, so if the cheap cables really do introduce more "bitrot" than the expensive cables, then this could be demonstrated by a test.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that anyone should buy an expensive USB cable for a budget or mid level system. I also recommend that people invest in the main components before they spend anything on cables (if they even want to).
As for how these cables influence the sound, I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it, but my understanding so far is that it's at least partially to do with noise being picked up by the cable and getting into the DAC circuits which can alter the clock accuracy and also add noise to the analog output stage too.
Try a Stealth.
Who makes the Stealth?
@@PassionforSound Stealth. I own the T Select ‘tunable’ version. Next level for me.
Ah. Got it. Thank you
have you heatd of the magical thing called "error correction" in digital domain ?
I have. Two things to note. 1) USB transmission for audio doesn't do any 2-way communication so there's no resending of incorrect data
2) the issues created are probably due to electrical noise entering the system and affecting the clock and other circuits within the DAC (Alpha Audio have demonstrated this objectively on their channel)
I like this channel, but I am also an engineer, and there is just no way digital cables can make a difference in sound, except when replacing faulty cables. If I'm wrong, why not add some measurements?
Dude, it’s not about the data.
@@user-jp3vl5jx1j That's just the margin of error from poor recording conditions.
@user-jp3vl5jx1j Thought plausible, the methodology in that video was flawed, as several people pointed out in the comments. I used to program DACs for DSP and agree with them: sample misalignment + lack of control of signal encodings or conversions in the chain. That is not how you test a usb cable. It is possible to dump the raw digital content at the end of the usb cable and then directly subtract it from the source. Error correction ensures the difference is 0 unless the cable is flawed.
@@TWidXugA1 Media player buffer sizes change the sound, audio drivers change the sound, all they do is turn 0's and 1's in sound huh? Its not a magic and instant, date goes through a medium, the cable, the power, the drivers, etc.
@TWidXugA1 ...I was just like you. I've just been defeated. Digital Cables have a sound to them. I love my Curious USB and XLR cables they make my system sound analog, natural, little warmth and smooth. When I test other USB/XLR cables they make my system sound more digital, Unnatural and sharp.
400€ for 50 cm? Guess 600 Aussie $ :P
Yep. Not cheap, but also far from the extremes of what some people might spend. 😱
Let's see some measurements... Go on.
I saw the measurements and they sound great!
Trimming the hair in your ears will give you more of a change than ever a USB cable will.
The Tubulus is 5 times more expensive than the Supra Excalibur, even in the Netherlands , home of the Tubulus.
Yes. It's definitely the better cable so that makes sense, but it also comes down to priorities and budget of course.
And @PassionforSound and because your reviews are so convincing and sincere, I can't get this Dutch cable out of my head. Because I do hear a difference in USB cables, even though they are connected to a DDC Hermes, I become very curious.
I love your channel and value your input, but please tell me this is a joke. Please tell me you didn't just recommend a $400 USB cable.
I do. It does make a difference. A monkey can hear it on my system (end level system + room)
I used to be in your camp until I got my Abyss 1266 and I was shocked that USB cable definitely do make a noticeable differences in sound.
I don’t understand it either but there is definitely a difference
Yep. Until recently, I had no way to explain it, just what my ears told me about each cable. However, I might have just received some peer reviewed studies that specifically explain it. I'll share some data and measurement based info soon...
It produces a “big, chunky sound?” Does this cable have a microprocessor in it that reads the digital numbers and changes them,, and then spits them out again to get the chunky sound. This is absurd.
I can't believe that we're still seeing this kind of snake oil being sold in this day and age. It's absurd.
@@user-xq8ev9xu9w
Recommending a 150 dollar/pound/euro and up usb cable makes me really question if this is just for entertainment or if you really mean wat you're saying. I find this totally unrealistic, even if it gives 5% sound benefit for the extra money.
It's all about where people want to play and invest their money, Richard. There are plenty of hobbies that I don't get as a use of money, but that's what makes us all so different and unique.
Tubulus cables are fantastic across the board. I have a Tubulus Argentus cable between my CD Transport and Dac which noticeably made the sound fuller.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! The USB cable definitely has me interested.
I appreciate your reviews as I am one who hears significant differences among USB cables. The problem here though is that you seem to like the Tubulus because it recesses the singer on a particular track as compared to other cables that bring the singer up closer. But how was the singer recorded? Was the singer recorded up close or was the singer recorded further back? In other words, which cable was a more accurate reproducer of what was actually recorded? Accuracy is one thing; taste is quite something else. I prefer accuracy! So how do we know which component is more accurate if we were not at the recording session? Generally, the answer is found by using classical rather than popular tracks for component evaluation. For if you are familiar with how real instruments in real space should sound, it may become more apparent that some components do a more accurate job than do others. Finally, as the legendary Harry Pearson wrote, if it is right for classical it will be right for everything else.
Hi Lenny, this isn't about recessing a vocalist. It's about delivering a larger and more spacious soundstage. What that means is that the cable is picking up, introducing, etc. less noise in the signal so that there is less to get in the way of the tiny sonic cues that our brain uses to understand space on the recording. In my experience across all types of devices and accessories, as products become more transparent and resolving, they deliver more sense of space in the stage. This is one such product.
I'm in that camp that can't afford to buy a USB cable even a 1/4 of the price so, my comment is not worth much in this case 😊
Well, you can if you fasted for 30 days and saved your food money to buy the cable. More like you are in the priorities and intelligence camp to me.
There's definitely never a need to prioritise a cable over anything else in life. 🙂
Wow...
I’m going to inform aerospace, medical, scientific and military industries as they have far more sensitive equipment that could use these technologies.
😆🤣 The industries you named is technical zeros and ones. Music cables have been re-engineered to change the sonic sound of hifi equipment. I under stand what your thinking it took me years to find out cables that have been re-engineered for sound makes a big difference. Its like saying sun glasses and prescription glasses are the same 😁
@@FukemStudios Are you saying that music cables switch, drop or add 1's and 0's in a particular way (add noise or modify the voltage differentials, frequency or clock sync off-set) to change the sound signature? Your argument might sound more plausible if you said that the expensive cables prevent noise or voltage anomalies from one end of the wire to the other end better than cheaper wire, although that might not be an audible difference.
The key as I understand it is the rejection of noise and possibly the ability of the cable to respond to the high speed voltage fluctuations with sufficient speed, but I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it.
The difference between medical or aerospace and music is that there's no need for subjectivity in medical or similar situations. In both cases, there's no lost data (I think), but there is definitely some subjective quality shift to the output in audio.
@@sydneybird116 Better Said😁👍
Why do youtube reviewers like you simultaneously try to claim credibility, and then claim that USB cables can possibly make a differenc to audio quality? If the USB cable is serviceable then it can not possibly be making a difference to aduio quality. If the USB cable is unservicable then it will not work. Your descriptions of stage and pretense that other cables have different stage is literally laughable.
Someone that builds/uses a digital audio system that depends in any way of the analog quality of any of the digital communication hardware is simply being ignorant, at least. In a digital audio system cabling quality is important only in the last (and only) analog connection to the last transducers (speakers, headphones, etc.).
I somewhat agree with this from my experiences. I've found the cable between the transport (e.g. PC) and a digital to digital converter seems to make no difference because it's all digital. However, the cable from the DDC to the DAC DOES seem to matter and I assume it's because of the fact that a DAC is both a digital and an analog device.
Its a nice cable. But it aint 590 nice. Make that and take some of the fairy dust out, skip the cryo. Ill pay 250
I'm just interested in how it sounds and it sounds better than the best reference I currently have in the Curious Evolved.
@PassionforSound the dual power line/data line USB's are sexy. The purple 💜 even more so! I need to get a Supra Excaliber.
Edit: what are you using for BNC?
I've got a Wave High Fidelity BNC that's pretty epic. I also use some Supra BNC cables and have custom BNC made with some VanDamme cable too.
I find it kinda sad that you got more dislikes than likes on this video. People really should get more open minded.
A month ago I would have laughed at people saying that there is a obvious sound difference, but in the last weeks I spent too many hours comparing different USB cables in my setup and I can definitely tell a sound difference between USB cables. After days of comparison between 3 cables, I decided to use the better/more expensive 2 (because even less difference) and did an ABX blind test with them. My girlfriend told me that she just pretended to change the cable 3 times and I still got 9 out of 10 times right.
Just a little recommendation - you should really try an Oehlbach Primus Cable (Gold one with OCC Copper). Its rather cheap in comparison and it did sound better than a Curious and an Audioquest Coffee. Similar to your description of the Tubulus Concentus. It was smoother, more natural, balanced sounding and with a deeper soundstage, like everyone took a step back.
Pretty meaningless without a video. People make up all kinds of claims, you must understand.
@@enjoshi-godrez8775 No it's not. It's an unfactual claim to pretend that I did not as long as you have not experienced it. That's not how science work. You know what empirical means, right? It's my experience and you can't take that away from me. If an ABX Test is not enough for you, it's your problem. I don't have to get your personal approval. And even if I hear the differences clearly with my system, does not mean that you could too.
@claudiokay you have no evidence you did it. End of discussion.
Who do you think you are? You act like a pretentious little ****. Do you really think you are in the position to end a discussion that you started, just because you have no arguments and can act like I am a liar? You have no evidence that I did not. Do you really think you are in the position to tell me what I experienced with my ABX Test? Do you really think that you are godlike and can decide what is scientific and has happened in reality and what‘s not, unless you experienced it for yourself?
Do you read scientific papers (based on empirical data) and say to yourself - hey, without any video or any experience in first person I do not accept the results of the study?
Even if I did a video, you would just say that it’s fake and staged. Unbelievable … guys like you are so close minded and predictable.
In the end you would still think that you are the smartest person in the world.
Sorry Claudio. This topic seems to fire up the trolls who want to rely on a lack of data as evidence of something when it's just that: a lack of data.
It is sad and frustrating that it should cause so much disagreement and anger from people. 😞
I'm so glad you've tried it for yourself and enjoyed the journey! Thank you for the recommendation. I'll see if I can try one out sometime.
Looks like you are trolling the trolls with so many cable reviews 😂
Pure coincidence that these arrived in the schedule together. Sometimes the universe has a sense of humour. 🙂
I used to be in the camp that digital cables make no difference, because either it works or it doesn't, right? Even though dacs have buffers, reclocking, galvanic isolation, oversampling, etc, it's not enough to overcome the large amounts of errors and noise that can happen in USB transmission. That's why after market USB cables sound different, and why there is a market for USB isolators, reclockers etc. All of them can make a clear difference. It's not a huge change, but it's big enough that it matters to someone who cares about quality and listens carefully.
I've heard of Tubulus because they seem to make one of the best HDMI cables for I2S because of silver conductors. They're not cheap, but that's what pure silver cables cost unless you gamble on Aliexpress cables or go DIY. This Concentus USB also uses silver conductors, so I'm not surprised it sounds different than the other cables. I believe Neotech makes the cheapest pure silver USB cable, so I'd be interested if there's any audible difference between Concentus USB and Neotech's Neub-1020.
There can be a market for almost anything. Snakeoil is very profitable.
I'm actually reviewing some very interesting peer reviewed research papers about audio cables now so keep an eye out for measurement and data based explanations of cable differences soon...
welp Headphone cables i can maybe understand but a USB cable.... come on how much you been paid to praise this
This cable was on loan from a friend. No money, no ownership, no bias.
Bro Ive worked in IT hardware, there is no difference unless you live in a server farm
IT and audio are very different. I'll share some scientific papers soon to provide some data and measurements explaining it all
@PassionforSound Until it passes through the DAC, no, no they are not different at all. You do realize that you are never even listening to the data the comes across a USB cable, right? You are listening to a of it. A copy made by the USB interface on the DAC side. You are listening to the clock inside your DAC as USB doesn't transmit a clock for the audio. And any noise you are hearing is coming from USB interface, again, on the DAC side. And if you are suggesting the 1s and 0s are being changed by the cable, well that's an even more batshit idea than the other 2.
@@G3rain1 I can see possibly an unshielded cable giving a bit of distortion given how much equipment he has, but otherwise I don't really understand how things would vary. Would be interested in seeing those papers.
Did a very simple test myself last night, swapped the cable on my Woo audio WA7 Dac/Tube amp to a usb a-b cable from a 10 year old printer. No audible difference to me. Then I tried the same with a MG10xu mixer, same thing no audible difference.
@@AT-vj2mz Distortion is irrelevant in a digital signal unless it's so bad it flips many bits, in which case you hear complete garbage or nothing at all. You will never hear subtle things like soundstage depth.
@@G3rain1 I've actually had that issue, but that's what I get for using a 20 usb hub with power delivery 😅
The best usb cable is the Lush^3. Seriously. Thank me later. Your mind will be blown away.
I haven't heard of that one. I'll have to look into it
...it's a USB cable 😶
Well spotted
Yes but if you pay somebody to review it. Foolish people will buy it. Ask for the measurements !
@@r423sdexreal
If you can Enhance your Sound, it is a good deal.
hahaha...
And here come the all the people who can't stand that you can have an opinion, that digital cables matter, that goes against their preconceived and personally unverified beliefs. Personally, I'd like to see what you think about the FTA Callisto and Sinope.
I looked into the FTA Callisto after you (I think) mentioned them previously. They definitely look interesting and I'll see what I can do.
More flluff, no A/B / X testing, no measurements = to much Christmas eggnog....
ABX testing isn’t a “thing” for this type of gear. It’s completely irrelevant to the use case and notoriously unreliable. Do some research.
Measurements and data are on their way... (yes, peer reviewed)
@@PassionforSound Looking forward to them.
I've read deeper last night and the tests are all for analog interconnects unfortunately 😞. However, there's still from very interesting data about signal transmission through cables in general that might help to explain the USB cable phenomenon. Whether it helps or not, I'll share either way.
@@PassionforSound Well it may come down to doing some legitimate A/B/X double blind testing....
I try 3 expensive usb cables with stax sr007 + sony ta-zh1es + audioquest niagara 1000
This is a VERY expensive high end system.
I hear no difference beetween a cheap amazon usb cable x audioquest coffee.
NOTHING.
If you pay more than 20-60 bucks on cables:
You just spend bad your money.
The sellers from hifi im hinterhof berlin best headphone sellers also say the same:
Cables make no significant differences!!!!
I'm glad that you've tried it for yourself even if we don't agree on the results. Thanks for sharing your experiences
At least someone who tried it. 🎉
I heard a difference between some USB cables, but i tried about 6 or 7 different ones. 3 of them were the amazon basic, standard canon printer cable and the audioquest coffee. All of them sounded almost the same. So yeah, I completely agree with you. There is no real difference. That Coffee USB cable is not worth investing. To be honest I would prefer the amazon basics, especially for this price 😂
The audioquest cinnamon sounded actually worse than the cheaper ones in my opinion. Maybe I just dislike the sound of the audioquest cables, idk. In the end, the Oehlbach Primus (~50€) won the contest.
Grüße aus Wien. 😊
😂
This channel has just turned into clickbait and ragebait.
No, just sharing my experiences and perspectives on a broad range of topics with no intention to annoy anyone. It's coincidence that I've had a couple of cable reviews land close together.
Tom - People are saying that you were queerbate!😂
You knew which cable you were testing, and how much it cost, whilst doing a comparative listening test, making the test unscientific, a blind test, based on listening alone, is the only way to test sound quality, multiple factors will have influenced your perceptions, making any conclusions reached worthless!
People get all uppity about the cost but nobody is forcing you to buy it.
💯
I’m guessing the video must be a joke. As long as you keep the cable short and the cable is durable there is no way this cable is impacting soundstage at all.
The funny part about it is the implications it presents. If you need a $2000 source component to appreciate the difference, it means the usb-output on it is so bad that you need a $400 cable to get it up to pace. If you are using a $1600 reclocker to remove noise from that source, it means the clock's input is so bad at doing its job that you need to pamper the connection to get there. None of which is factory recommended. Buying one of these is an insult to the rest of your gear investment.
@@mat.b. obviously in theory all equipment would PERFECTLY filter out all noise, and have perfect voltage regulation, perfect and instant light speed transfer of electricity and data, except thats impossbile. Why do you think the he-1, $50 000 headphone exists? Its an insult to all amps and headphones no? Everything should sound the same in modern dacs and amps, their noise floor is below the auditory range of humans no? Yet they all still sound different. Use your ears smh
@@Hetsu.. you're giving an analog analogy (🥁) on a digital topic.
@@mat.b. lmao because the analog sound doesnt come in contact to the digital signal and power
@@Hetsu.. You simply don't know what you're talking about, and that's okay
If you think you can improve on the HE-1 by adding a fancy USB cable, I think you should go on that adventure and report back.
can you talk more slowly please
Sorry. I'll try in future...
The power of suggestion the human brain... I'am sure you hear a difference, the more you pay. A USB cables work or don't. Numerical data transfers don't suffer from loss when working properly (you would loss data on a usb drive otherwise). Buy for the look if you want, not for the sound difference it doesn't make.
You're overlooking the fact that I didn't pay for it (it was a loan from a friend) and I didn't know what it cost when I started this video.
My understanding at this point is that noise can be picked up by the cable and can significantly influence the accuracy of the clock in the receiving DAC and the purity of the analog output stage (also due to the noise introduced). There's some great content (and measurements) on Hans Beekhuyzen's channel that explain why it's about more than the 1s and 0s.
@@PassionforSound great to have your take on this. It shows how dedicated you are, congrats. But, agree to disagree as they say.
Respectfully, here some more thought : if noise induced on the USB cable is so low, it won't be enough to affect the numerical data, data won't be corrupted on the usb receiver side. If you are afraid of noise, pick a shorter cable, less surface to capture noise, and less loss. Overall an even better Signal to noise ratio. But even then it won't matter on the kind of length we use. With on specs' cable there is no error on the receiving side on the USB data packet, 10$ to 20$ decent cable are fine.
Now on the clock side : Dacs do not use the USB transfert "clock" on the audio side, data is transferred to an USB receiver buffering the data using your PC USB "clock". Internally, the Dac use its own high quality clock to "unbuffer" and stream that data at a perfect pace for audio decoding.
So no significant loss on the cable, what comes in, comes out as it, data decoded is the same as encoded on the USB. No effect on the DAC clock from the USB either. That the whole point of the DAC design.
Thanks for being respectful about this. You're correct about the clocking occuring in the DAC - I'm not suggesting otherwise. Check out this video that shows exactly how incoming noise can interfere with the clock of the device. This test is with a streamer, but the DAC will be subject to the same challenges, plus that same noise can get into the analog output stage.
ua-cam.com/video/dstO0650oKk/v-deo.htmlsi=KKL6zB4ZFD-s7PJ9
Tonality in a USB cable...ok...
seriously. bonkers.
You two really don’t understand how much you don’t know. All you can do is troll because you’re too ignorant to be modest and reflect.
I've got some peer reviewed research papers about cable differences now so will be providing some data/measurement based analysis soon to explain why cables actually do make a difference. No opinion, no speculation, just data.
@@PassionforSound Would love to see it.
I've read up more and they're actually all focussed on analog cables and similar, but there are some very interesting measurements about the way signals travel through wires that are fascinating and will likely shed some light on "digital" cables too because they're still transmitting a fluctuating voltage.
Whatever difference you are hearing is a conjured placebo
It's a USB cable, ffs.
There's no chance at all that makes any farking difference to the sound....or vision.
This is pure grift.
Everyone hating on expensive cables haven’t A/B them before. Just skeptics refusing to be open minded. Objectiveness is sucking all the fun out of this hobby
I agree. The curiosity and exploration is a part of the fun. It doesn't always end in positive experiences or improvements, but it's still a fun journey.
I actually have done A/B on USB-C cables and there was literally no observable difference. The only “objectiveness” is what I hear with my own ears and both me and the owner of the store couldn’t accurately tell between Audioquest Forest vs Audioquest Diamond USB-C cables and that’s an $85 cable vs an almost $900 cable (in Canada). I went in with an open mind and left knowing I’ll literally never be able to tell the difference.
Relying too hard on objective data reeks of amateurism. Difference like cables, including digital ones, and also op amps sound so obviously different from each other it can't possibly just be delusion. We still don't know everything yet, and audio is far more reliant of mad scientists working things out on their own than other fields. People like to appeal to authorities, because usually someone smart has probably figured out how things really are. Hence why we see the Harman Target Curve quoted so much in reviews. This kind of thinking permeates thinking these days across the board. We're supposed to ignore our instincts and senses and outsource thinking to experts. I believe we've hit peak objectivism, so things should get better lol.
This is an issue that's been bothering me for years, for example below is a quote from the blog Archimago's Musings when he compared op amps in 2016:
"differences I thought I heard are likely the result of selective attention and limitations of echoic memory rather than correlating with objective reality. As Nobel prize laureate Richard Feynman wisely reminded us: "the first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." That's just the nature of subjectivity."
He measured the op amps, and also said he heard a clear difference in sound with the more exotic op amps sounding better. But because his measurements only showed a 0.1db difference in noise, he ignored what he heard and chalked it up to his imagination. To me that's lunacy. I kind of love the heat around this subject, because seemingly smart people have doubled down on what to me is the clearly wrong opinion. It's a benign field to study delusional behavior in otherwise healthy adults.
@@StoneColdClassics In my experience the differences can be bigger or smaller depending on the gear you're testing with. One of my old dacs, the Asus Essence III, was very good at eliminating differences between cables and source types. With that dac Toslink, Coax, USB and AES all sounded exactly the same, because the dac was able to nullify the differences. When I later bought a Musician Pegasus, all the inputs sounded different. Toslink was different from coax, which sounded different from USB, which was different from AES and I2S. So in your USB cable comparison, it's possible the source took care of the differences between the cables, and so the difference became minimal. But with a different dac, it could have been bigger.
@@PeterHas Possible, I only used a Mojo 2, I don't really know how that influences the sound of the cable.
haha $400 USB cable. SUCKER
And…..unsubscribed. I used to like your reviews.
Cry more, please.
Oh no please don’t go
@@beefsupreme510 😂
@@TheKotor2309 😂
Ah shucks, I used to like your comments, now I have to block you.
Nice, this is a solid unsub. Gj hf.
Expensive USB cables sound better. LMAO. I had to check the calendar that today wasn't April 1st. LMAO. That's why DAC reviews always list which USB cable they use. LMAO. I think someone needs to study how digital works or else watch ASR.
Thinks ASR are objective instead of selective LMAO
Measurements sound so much better than the actual music!!
Oh no. You just lost all credibility :(
You did too😅
The way you describe the differences between the two leads is laughable, it,s binary code 0s & 1s, there's no scientific reason, why one would sound any different to the other!
Just $400 for a magic cable, not bad. 🤌