The 8088 powered the first PC and was absolutely important because of that - People say x86 is "old and busted" - I say it's durable and capable of evolving with the times - bet it will be with us for a hundred years !
Back in the day, I considered the Z80, 6502 or 6800 to be "vastly superior" to the 8080.... but where are the 64 bit versions of all those "better" chips today?
@@edgeeffect The superior CDP1802 led the way, with its register-rich, flexible architecture, which led to RISC, ARM, and some of the most powerful 64 bit CPUs today. Of course, if you want more, the PowerPC line is still going strong and offering 128-bit architectures. It too has RISC heritage going back to RCA's humble 1802.
@@johnrehwinkel7241 ARM is not RISC. This is a deception. ARM has dedicated instructions for converting Java Script floats to integers, it has SIMD instructions which are distinctly a CISC thing that were introduced in the Intel Pentium with the MMX instructions, and ARM v8 has more instructions in its ISA than probably any CISC chip from the 1980s and definitely more than the original Intel Pentium. I had counted by hand the instructions from the Intel Programmer's manual for the Pentium versus modern ARM. I would also like to state that modern CPUs do not spend most of their chip area on the logic. Even a fully fledged Ryzen CPU's chip area is mostly cache and not the logic. There is no advantage for someone to choose ARM over x86 in the desktop, laptop, or server arena. Power efficiency? If you see ARM do better than x86 in energy efficiency it's because they either have better manufacturing at their disposal such as when Apple reserves newest technology from TSMC so AMD can't get their hands on it or the comparison makes no sense. For example, comparing a mobile chip with a desktop chip is silly because both Intel and AMD have established power consumption of 65 watts or higher on their desktop chips. Their laptop chips easily go as low as 6 watts such as the Intel N100 and if you undervolt they can go even lower. The Steam Deck is one of those devices where you can lower the power consumption to just 5 watts and games still perform ok. If anyone wants to learn more they can check out my video on CISC vs RISC on my channel.
My first machine was a 5150 and I learned assembler on it. I remember thinking what a useless instruction XLAT was back then. I just looked it up and it still exists in modern x86 chips. That alone tells me we need to move on from x86. God knows how much other junk there is sitting in that instruction set now.
@@WDUSNBMHHU From what I've read a lot of those old, seldom used instructions are handled by microcode instead of having dedicated hardware - the transistor budget for keeping the backwards compatibility cooties around is a very small percentage - just like legacy x86 decode is generally - Most things get decoded into micro-ops that handle everything now - the first generation Pentium was the last hard wired x86 machine - the P6 core in the Pentium Pro changed everything.
The 8 bit bus actually doesn't reduce the chips performance by 1/2. Due to the chips internal fetch queue and the fact that it takes several clock cycles to perform each instruction (super scalar processors didn't arrive until the Pentium), means that the 8 bit cpu can almost catch up with the operations of the 16 bit. It DOES depend on the actual instruction mix, but the actual performance of the 8088 is a bit better than 50% of the 8086. It's close enough to justify the lower cost of the 8088 vs the performance of the 8086, especially if one can run at a higher clock speed. IBM was initially specing a PC design using the 8085 processor, but Bill Gates at Microsoft suggested that they use the 8088 instead, pointing out the greater memory addressing, and that software development for the newer processor would not cost any more than for the 8085. Big Blue took his suggestion to heart, and the rest is history.
@@cpu_duke I never tried to decap a ceramic lid package. I didn't realize that was so easy to do, I' have decaped the metal lid types on eproms and rams (did you know you can use decaped drams as simple image sensors?)
People who didn't come to computers until micros don't apreciate how remarkable the 8088 was. Prior to that cpu width and memory width was always the same. 32 bit bit mainframes had 32 bit wide memory, 16 bit mini compuers had 16 bit wide memory. The 8088 was the first processor to separate cpu width and memory width.
Damn, I missed the anniversary. I have a copy of Emu8088, I could have written something in it to celebrate. Nothing fancy, since I've only dabbled in it. But I could probably make something to output a celebratory message in text.
oh neat I thought I was a little younger than this chip. but I'm a little older! Hugely important chip. Arguably more critical to the platform as a whole than the 8086 itself.
A quick correction: "But what is not said is by crippling the bus interface to 8 bit the chip lost half of it's performance...". No, all instructions that executed on CPU require identical clocks(ALU the same) but the difference is the transfer 16-bit words, it's extra 4 clocks for 8088 and if word with an odd address 8086 adds 4 clocks too. To fully use of pipeline 8086, data must be aligned by word or 16 bit. In original 8086 manual from 1979: "In applications that manipulate 8 bit quantities extensively, or that are execution-bound, the 8088 can approach to within 10% of the 8086's processing throughput.". And I/O ports for 8086 and 16-bit devices must be even for transfer 16-bit data in one bus cycle, for 8088 any port. :)
New Sub; Detroit, Michigan, US Well Done Sir! this was a great video! now do the 80186 LOL WAsnt Happy to See that 8088 to Loose its Lid. I Would have given it a New Home LOL
In the UK , that vice you use is branded as "Stanley" which is a classic old English tool company... what brand does yours have? Came for the classic chips and got distracted by 21st century marketing... sorry.
It’s quite tedious. You take many pictures very accurately next to each other, „scanning“ the die in a zig zag fashion. I use ICE software to stitch it to a large canvas.
The 8088 powered the first PC and was absolutely important because of that - People say x86 is "old and busted" - I say it's durable and capable of evolving with the times - bet it will be with us for a hundred years !
Back in the day, I considered the Z80, 6502 or 6800 to be "vastly superior" to the 8080.... but where are the 64 bit versions of all those "better" chips today?
@@edgeeffect The superior CDP1802 led the way, with its register-rich, flexible architecture, which led to RISC, ARM, and some of the most powerful 64 bit CPUs today. Of course, if you want more, the PowerPC line is still going strong and offering 128-bit architectures. It too has RISC heritage going back to RCA's humble 1802.
@@johnrehwinkel7241 ARM is not RISC. This is a deception. ARM has dedicated instructions for converting Java Script floats to integers, it has SIMD instructions which are distinctly a CISC thing that were introduced in the Intel Pentium with the MMX instructions, and ARM v8 has more instructions in its ISA than probably any CISC chip from the 1980s and definitely more than the original Intel Pentium. I had counted by hand the instructions from the Intel Programmer's manual for the Pentium versus modern ARM. I would also like to state that modern CPUs do not spend most of their chip area on the logic. Even a fully fledged Ryzen CPU's chip area is mostly cache and not the logic. There is no advantage for someone to choose ARM over x86 in the desktop, laptop, or server arena. Power efficiency? If you see ARM do better than x86 in energy efficiency it's because they either have better manufacturing at their disposal such as when Apple reserves newest technology from TSMC so AMD can't get their hands on it or the comparison makes no sense. For example, comparing a mobile chip with a desktop chip is silly because both Intel and AMD have established power consumption of 65 watts or higher on their desktop chips. Their laptop chips easily go as low as 6 watts such as the Intel N100 and if you undervolt they can go even lower. The Steam Deck is one of those devices where you can lower the power consumption to just 5 watts and games still perform ok.
If anyone wants to learn more they can check out my video on CISC vs RISC on my channel.
My first machine was a 5150 and I learned assembler on it. I remember thinking what a useless instruction XLAT was back then. I just looked it up and it still exists in modern x86 chips. That alone tells me we need to move on from x86. God knows how much other junk there is sitting in that instruction set now.
@@WDUSNBMHHU From what I've read a lot of those old, seldom used instructions are handled by microcode instead of having dedicated hardware - the transistor budget for keeping the backwards compatibility cooties around is a very small percentage - just like legacy x86 decode is generally - Most things get decoded into micro-ops that handle everything now - the first generation Pentium was the last hard wired x86 machine - the P6 core in the Pentium Pro changed everything.
The 8 bit bus actually doesn't reduce the chips performance by 1/2. Due to the chips internal fetch queue and the fact that it takes several clock cycles to perform each instruction (super scalar processors didn't arrive until the Pentium), means that the 8 bit cpu can almost catch up with the operations of the 16 bit. It DOES depend on the actual instruction mix, but the actual performance of the 8088 is a bit better than 50% of the 8086. It's close enough to justify the lower cost of the 8088 vs the performance of the 8086, especially if one can run at a higher clock speed.
IBM was initially specing a PC design using the 8085 processor, but Bill Gates at Microsoft suggested that they use the 8088 instead, pointing out the greater memory addressing, and that software development for the newer processor would not cost any more than for the 8085. Big Blue took his suggestion to heart, and the rest is history.
I will not hairsplit over this as there is enough margin (the instruction mix). Thanks for listening so carefully!
@@cpu_duke I never tried to decap a ceramic lid package. I didn't realize that was so easy to do, I' have decaped the metal lid types on eproms and rams (did you know you can use decaped drams as simple image sensors?)
The 486 can reach, in optimal conditions, one clock cycle per instruction.
Shows the test of time people are still using them to this day and I still have one or two kicking around someplace
If the delidded one still works, try cleaning it up and putting a glass cap on. That would make a great centerpiece for a display build.
Interesting idea. But Incident light might create a noise issues since semiconductors emit light but also absorb it.
People who didn't come to computers until micros don't apreciate how remarkable the 8088 was. Prior to that cpu width and memory width was always the same. 32 bit bit mainframes had 32 bit wide memory, 16 bit mini compuers had 16 bit wide memory. The 8088 was the first processor to separate cpu width and memory width.
Damn, I missed the anniversary. I have a copy of Emu8088, I could have written something in it to celebrate. Nothing fancy, since I've only dabbled in it. But I could probably make something to output a celebratory message in text.
oh neat I thought I was a little younger than this chip. but I'm a little older!
Hugely important chip. Arguably more critical to the platform as a whole than the 8086 itself.
Gross! U old as F. I'm slightly older than the chip too. :( Great memories playing games on the 8088!
The 4004 wasn't the world's first CPU. It was the first commercially available CPU. The first CPU was part of a chipset for the f14 tomcat in 1969.
Very good, I have subscribed. In the Evolution table I couldn't find one that I have here, the Intel RapidCad.
Thanks, yes I focussed on common CPUs, the RAPIDCAD is more a 386 upgrade FPU solution. I actually don’t have it!
This guy cares about intel more than intel itself 😅
Enjoyed this ... I look foward to checking out your channel. Thanks. Subscribed. Cheers
i got 8088.. not sure if i have 8086
but i do have 80186 .. 286
386.. 486.. P1..P2..P3..P4
and some more
Such an underrated channel, I need to check your other anniversary videos as well.
Agreed. Wholeheartedly. I just stumbled across this, myself and was wondering where it's been all my life.
And to this day, Intel CPU's still startup in real mode.
A quick correction: "But what is not said is by crippling the bus interface to 8 bit the chip lost half of it's performance...". No, all instructions that executed on CPU require identical clocks(ALU the same) but the difference is the transfer 16-bit words, it's extra 4 clocks for 8088 and if word with an odd address 8086 adds 4 clocks too. To fully use of pipeline 8086, data must be aligned by word or 16 bit. In original 8086 manual from 1979: "In applications that manipulate 8 bit quantities extensively, or that are execution-bound, the 8088 can approach to within 10% of the 8086's processing throughput.". And I/O ports for 8086 and 16-bit devices must be even for transfer 16-bit data in one bus cycle, for 8088 any port. :)
I still have many of these old chips
nice video
Zeus was stunned.
When trying to heat something, it helps not putting it in highly thermo-conducting material 😂. Also, that poor 8088 😭.
New Sub; Detroit, Michigan, US
Well Done Sir! this was a great video! now do the 80186 LOL
WAsnt Happy to See that 8088 to Loose its Lid.
I Would have given it a New Home LOL
The CerDip is not particularly rare. Got 3 for 16 British Pounds including shipping. Kept 2 in my collection…
Quality content mate
In the UK , that vice you use is branded as "Stanley" which is a classic old English tool company... what brand does yours have? Came for the classic chips and got distracted by 21st century marketing... sorry.
Yes it is a Stanley! Never failed me sofar!
😱 barbarian, broke good CPU
Great Video, man! This stitch looks cool, how do you do this?
It’s quite tedious. You take many pictures very accurately next to each other, „scanning“ the die in a zig zag fashion. I use ICE software to stitch it to a large canvas.