Thanks Al. Some sound advice there 👍🏻. Here’s something I do when changing rads: before filling up the system, close both the valves on the new rad(s) and then fill. I then open up the bleed valve followed by one of the valves, this pulls the air through the radiator, followed by the water. Same for the other valve then.
Well described there Al, I have this in my house, had to fit drain offs to 2 of 4 drops. Can't believe someone did it like that and yeah, it is a pain to fill back up!
If you're putting new central heating into a detached 1960's bungalow previously heated with storage heaters - is a 'drop down' system the best. HUG grant scheme will fit air source heat pump and drop down system. Guess it's a lot less hassle compared to taking up floorboards - but just wondering about where pipes will go and if it'll work as well?
@dereton33 Thanks, yes - that's what I thought, but it's the only system on offer from installers on the 'Home Upgrade Grant' who say they can do a 3 bedroom bungalow in two days!......I guess at least it won't cause as much upheaval in the house during installation. To be honest I'm starting to think of keeping storage heaters when I see the amount of pipes, controls and associated gubbins required for heat pumps.
Just had a heat pump and new rads fitted. All fine on day of commissioning but a few days later, 3 of my rads dont get hot at all and just sit at ambient(measured with temp probe), they are also the only three drop pipe rads in the house. Lifted a few floor boards and hot water going through the tee but not the drops.🤔
Is it more efficient to have the feed going in the top of the radiator with thermostatic valve there and the feet coming out the opposite side at the bottom thank you
Thanks Al, great vid as usual. Can you do one following on from that doing the comparison from multiple drop feeds to single drop feeds. Thanks, take care
Hi Al, Exactly how my house is piped. However one of the legs goes to a tee join at the base and feeds to rads. Added to this when the piping was installed for some reason they added an s bend to get the pipes nearer the wall. Both these rads don' get roasting hot. If I removed the s bend and went straight down might that improve circulation
I have a 7ft old 70s style rad, with the 2 inputs on one end. I didn't realise it has a copper flex pipe inside and when I pulled the valve out it was either broken or I severed it. So now only a little 4 inch bit is on the valve. Is that pipe inside the rad removable? I thought i heard it rattling around when i washed out the sludge with the hosepipe. And can I pull off the stumpy bit and push the remaining broken bit back in the valve to get the rad mostly heated up? At the moment the valve gets hot but rad is cold because the return hose is disconnected from the valve. Someone said you can use a 8-10mm copper tube run the length of the rad to get it working somewhat reasonably. Is that something I could try? Cheers.
@@dereton33 hmm. OK. Well, it's in a room where it gets heat from other areas, but I just wanted some heat to keep the room ticking over until spring and a new rad set up. Is there a temporary bodge for now?
On an open vented system like the one in your drawing would the first rad on the system be upstairs (nearest the HW cylinder)? If so, if this is converted to a combi system, (with the boiler downstairs) would the first rad remain in the same place upstairs or would it need to be the nearest one to the boiler downstairs? Hope that makes sense.
I have Auto Air bleed valves on the inflow and return 22 pipes in the loft, should I close these to stop air getting in the system from the top valves when using the drain pipe method? (Ive drained the leg 3 times from the drain valve but still wont warm up the 2 rads downstairs. Thank you
@@dereton33 Thank you for the reply! I did try that but still no joy. Managed to pull the airlock out this morning with 1/2 inch hose pipe and a bucket. Wont be draining the system for a long time now all going well 😄
Hi, I'm working In flats in the basement installing a combi, and the floor is concrete so the only way to to run the pipes is through the ground floor joists above to avoid cutting concrete. I'm a bit concerned that it won't bleed up as the air would get trapped in the pipes running above. I thought about putting air release valves in but that's not really practical as they'd have to be in the dwelling above. Any ideas? Or should I just pipe it up and see if it will bleed up OK? Any help appreciated. Thanks Edit: usually you'd just bleed the upstairs rads to release air but not poss here.
Interesting. I was forced to cut off flush the copper pipes installed in the ground floor concrete screed of my Victorian house (that originally had floorboards downstairs) and drop new from the ceiling due to leaks. I remember discovering that not only were the CH pipes leaking but also the gas pipe to the lounge fire when I was doing press ups and smelt the gas, so gas fire now fed from above. I assume that Denso tape had not been used before burying the pipes and perhaps allowance for expansion had not been allowed (although not sure how you do that, avoid long runs?? I was in the habit of setting the boiler to 82 deg C when I had an old Thorn `M' gas boiler so that the room / cylinder thermostats had full authority which I guess exacerbated the problem.
@@dereton33 Indeed. As you know, for old boilers it was encouraged to set them as high as possible (provided that room & cylinder stats were in use) to prevent the burner ‘short cycling’ on / off, on / off. Gas fired cast iron boilers were about 75% efficient while firing but only about 60 - 65 % if short cycling, hence the ‘seasonal efficiency’ figures being so much lower than the boiler’s efficiency quoted by the manufacturer. Modern condensing gas boilers are more efficient not only because of the large heat exchanger but also because they are fitted with industrial type fan assisted modulating burners that are able to turn down to low fire while maintaining the correct gas / air mixture. The old atmospheric gas burners always had ‘bypass air’ going around the burner bar & cooling down the hot gases heating the boiler. This ‘bypass air’ was crudely controlled by boiler flueway retarders. If the burner was the modulating type the bypass air became more significant on low fire and the efficiency went down which doesn’t happen with modern fan assisted modulating burners.
I have an FE system , and always wondered why the flow back pipe in the loft ends in mid air above the FE loft tank , why doesn't it just feed into the water ?
Same here, complete dogshit. Drained off some water to fit a new towel rad in the bathroom and system refused to work again. Tried bleeding absolutely everything but had to call a plumber. Blockage of sludge inside a pipe.. looks like the previous owner never bothered to inhibit it. Had to pull up bathroom floor to fix it. I was very very lucky that I was having new tiles put down. Once it was refilled it took me ages to get all rads hot due to air locks. I don't think I will ever drain it again and try to use a pipe freezing kit in future...
People don’t know how lucky they are having you & UA-cam. Your a star.
That is very kind thanks Will Bee.
Thanks Al. Some sound advice there 👍🏻. Here’s something I do when changing rads: before filling up the system, close both the valves on the new rad(s) and then fill. I then open up the bleed valve followed by one of the valves, this pulls the air through the radiator, followed by the water. Same for the other valve then.
Great tip! Thanks M J.
Well described there Al, I have this in my house, had to fit drain offs to 2 of 4 drops. Can't believe someone did it like that and yeah, it is a pain to fill back up!
Sorry to hear that, rubbish installation.
If you're putting new central heating into a detached 1960's bungalow previously heated with storage heaters - is a 'drop down' system the best. HUG grant scheme will fit air source heat pump and drop down system. Guess it's a lot less hassle compared to taking up floorboards - but just wondering about where pipes will go and if it'll work as well?
They just look ugly seeing the dropped pipes.
@dereton33 Thanks, yes - that's what I thought, but it's the only system on offer from installers on the 'Home Upgrade Grant' who say they can do a 3 bedroom bungalow in two days!......I guess at least it won't cause as much upheaval in the house during installation. To be honest I'm starting to think of keeping storage heaters when I see the amount of pipes, controls and associated gubbins required for heat pumps.
Another great video Al. Thanks for making them always useful. Cheers
Thanks 👍
Just had a heat pump and new rads fitted. All fine on day of commissioning but a few days later, 3 of my rads dont get hot at all and just sit at ambient(measured with temp probe), they are also the only three drop pipe rads in the house. Lifted a few floor boards and hot water going through the tee but not the drops.🤔
Balance the rest of the system
Great quick tip Al - thanks!
No problem 👍
Is it more efficient to have the feed going in the top of the radiator with thermostatic valve there and the feet coming out the opposite side at the bottom thank you
Yes, absolutely
Thanks Al, great vid as usual. Can you do one following on from that doing the comparison from multiple drop feeds to single drop feeds.
Thanks, take care
Great suggestion!
Hi Al,
Exactly how my house is piped. However one of the legs goes to a tee join at the base and feeds to rads. Added to this when the piping was installed for some reason they added an s bend to get the pipes nearer the wall.
Both these rads don' get roasting hot. If I removed the s bend and went straight down might that improve circulation
No afraid not . Balancing the system is the best way to sort it.
Are the pipes likely to come down the wall in a bungalow? I have f&e system and thought they'd come from the boiler under the floorboards. Thanks😊
More likely.
I have a 7ft old 70s style rad, with the 2 inputs on one end. I didn't realise it has a copper flex pipe inside and when I pulled the valve out it was either broken or I severed it. So now only a little 4 inch bit is on the valve. Is that pipe inside the rad removable? I thought i heard it rattling around when i washed out the sludge with the hosepipe. And can I pull off the stumpy bit and push the remaining broken bit back in the valve to get the rad mostly heated up? At the moment the valve gets hot but rad is cold because the return hose is disconnected from the valve. Someone said you can use a 8-10mm copper tube run the length of the rad to get it working somewhat reasonably. Is that something I could try? Cheers.
I really would not bother. Just ditch it and get a new energy efficient one. After all it has done well.
@@dereton33 hmm. OK. Well, it's in a room where it gets heat from other areas, but I just wanted some heat to keep the room ticking over until spring and a new rad set up. Is there a temporary bodge for now?
On an open vented system like the one in your drawing would the first rad on the system be upstairs (nearest the HW cylinder)? If so, if this is converted to a combi system, (with the boiler downstairs) would the first rad remain in the same place upstairs or would it need to be the nearest one to the boiler downstairs? Hope that makes sense.
It would still remain the upstairs one.
@@dereton33 Thanks Al
I have Auto Air bleed valves on the inflow and return 22 pipes in the loft, should I close these to stop air getting in the system from the top valves when using the drain pipe method? (Ive drained the leg 3 times from the drain valve but still wont warm up the 2 rads downstairs. Thank you
Also I have a combi boiler
They are meant to clear air from the system. Try balancing your system to get those radiators working.
@@dereton33 Thank you for the reply! I did try that but still no joy. Managed to pull the airlock out this morning with 1/2 inch hose pipe and a bucket. Wont be draining the system for a long time now all going well 😄
Hi, I'm working In flats in the basement installing a combi, and the floor is concrete so the only way to to run the pipes is through the ground floor joists above to avoid cutting concrete. I'm a bit concerned that it won't bleed up as the air would get trapped in the pipes running above. I thought about putting air release valves in but that's not really practical as they'd have to be in the dwelling above. Any ideas? Or should I just pipe it up and see if it will bleed up OK?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Edit: usually you'd just bleed the upstairs rads to release air but not poss here.
Just make sure to install drain valves on all the drops, that way you can put a hose on the drops and pull any air out.
@@dereton33 that's helpful. Thanks
Interesting. I was forced to cut off flush the copper pipes installed in the ground floor concrete screed of my Victorian house (that originally had floorboards downstairs) and drop new from the ceiling due to leaks. I remember discovering that not only were the CH pipes leaking but also the gas pipe to the lounge fire when I was doing press ups and smelt the gas, so gas fire now fed from above. I assume that Denso tape had not been used before burying the pipes and perhaps allowance for expansion had not been allowed (although not sure how you do that, avoid long runs?? I was in the habit of setting the boiler to 82 deg C when I had an old Thorn `M' gas boiler so that the room / cylinder thermostats had full authority which I guess exacerbated the problem.
Old house do suffer from bad installs, and old boilers set too high.
@@dereton33 Indeed. As you know, for old boilers it was encouraged to set them as high as possible (provided that room & cylinder stats were in use) to prevent the burner ‘short cycling’ on / off, on / off. Gas fired cast iron boilers were about 75% efficient while firing but only about 60 - 65 % if short cycling, hence the ‘seasonal efficiency’ figures being so much lower than the boiler’s efficiency quoted by the manufacturer. Modern condensing gas boilers are more efficient not only because of the large heat exchanger but also because they are fitted with industrial type fan assisted modulating burners that are able to turn down to low fire while maintaining the correct gas / air mixture. The old atmospheric gas burners always had ‘bypass air’ going around the burner bar & cooling down the hot gases heating the boiler. This ‘bypass air’ was crudely controlled by boiler flueway retarders. If the burner was the modulating type the bypass air became more significant on low fire and the efficiency went down which doesn’t happen with modern fan assisted modulating burners.
I have an FE system , and always wondered why the flow back pipe in the loft ends in mid air above the FE loft tank , why doesn't it just feed into the water ?
It could suck water back down and stop any air from escaping.
Thanks mate 👍
No problem 👍
Same here, complete dogshit. Drained off some water to fit a new towel rad in the bathroom and system refused to work again. Tried bleeding absolutely everything but had to call a plumber. Blockage of sludge inside a pipe.. looks like the previous owner never bothered to inhibit it. Had to pull up bathroom floor to fix it. I was very very lucky that I was having new tiles put down. Once it was refilled it took me ages to get all rads hot due to air locks. I don't think I will ever drain it again and try to use a pipe freezing kit in future...
Thanks for the info Ben.
Al that's what I emailed u about mate
Still best bet to drain the lot Ash.
Is there anything easy?? 🤔🤔🙄🙄🙄🙄
I guess not Paul. Ha ha life would be too simple.