This reminds me of when Job gave up and willingly suffered the torments placed upon him by Satan because he knew that only our Lord and Savior can defeat the powers of evil. Like only The Son Gohan can defeat the perfect being Cell.
Goku dying at the end of the Cell fight and Gohan's victory (with help) was poetic redemption for what happened in the original timeline. While Goku was still destined to die, he almost accepted it as his fate since it's what happened to him in the other timeline. What changed was his ability to help his son (the future) change things and save everyone. This change in the timeline caused ramifcations throughout the rest of the series and is constantly alluded back to. Goku was hesitant to help during the Buu saga because he felt it was wrong to alter events of the living world as one that has already died. We then see this issue play out again in the Zamasu saga, where it's now gods that are taking issue with what they've done.
He could have found a way to win if it was all up to him. Not saying he would have won for sure, but he often rises to the occasion when the stakes are highest and he's all that's left. If you remember, there was a moment he was ready to fight again when he became briefly convinced Gohan wasn't ready afterall. This was interrupted by Cell stealing the bag of senzu beans from Krillin and the Cell Juniors fight, etc.
In this case, no, Goku couldn't beat Cell. As he said to Gohan, he was going all-out in their fight. Cell, on the other hand, was intentionally holding back to enjoy the fight. He stated that it's no fun unless the fighters are almost evenly matched. Goku's request for a Senzu was an act of desperation because out of everyone else their (excluding Gohan) he had the best chance of beating Cell. However, he did this before witnessing Cell's power-up against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. When he saw Cell's full power, he was shocked like everyone else. Meaning he didn't stand a chance. People usually think Goku was stronger than Gohan because his fight with Cell looked more impressive than Gohan's initially. But what a lot of fans ignore or miss is the context behind those fights when comparing them. Cell wasn't trying to end his fight with Goku quickly, he was enjoying himself. But when Goku gave-up and picked Gohan, Cell was insulated and intended to kill Gohan quickly so he can keep fighting Goku. He even said so himself in the Japanese version of the anime, and the manga.
@DigitalWraith Well said. What I've realized is that this Fandom is very visual in terms of understanding, so they tend to not take in the minute details behind the scenes. Gohan was implied to be stronger than Goku throughout the entire Cell Games, even as a Ssj. Cell was attempting to kill Gohan quickly, and yet *couldn't*. Not only that, Gohan didn't throw out a single attack during their initial scuffle. When he did, he made Cell bleed, something not even Goku could accomplish.
@@YamchaSama-Z gohan was direcly said to be stronger than goku, it wasnt even an implication. You would be surprised by how badly some dragon ball fans understand the show
If Goku knew Gohan wasn’t up to the task he would have kept fighting even if it was a losing fight just like when he fought Frieza. But ever since he witnessed Gohan’s real power first hand he just knew that was his ace against Cell… no only did they needed to break the SSJ wall they also needed to tap into Gohan’s inner reserves of power!
The craziest thing is Goku didn’t even lose any layer of his Gi. Not even down to his blue or shirtless. So as a kid I’m like huhhhh?? You’re what?? Frieza took him down to shirtless, Buu got him down to blue, and he quits with Cell simply giving a hole on the back smh.
Great video as usual! Looking forward to the next one! I have an idea on how Goku MIGHT have been able to beat cell. When he did the instant transmission kamehameha he obliterated cell from the waste up. So, if he was able to make the attack large enough to hit cells entire body, maybe bit larger than Cell just for good measure, he MIGHT have been able to kill Cell. This is of course if Goku was able to destroy EVERY last cell in Cells body, and he was able to put whatever power he had left into the attack and survive.
Thanks so much as always! I know I said I was back publishing 6 months ago and it didn't happen, but this time hopefully it will be better ahahha I really would have liked to have seen that. I think that was Goku's intention but in the end he lacked the power at that point and also Cell's body was too durable.
Exceptionally great video, what I love most about your videos is not just that you know what you’re talking about. But you have an amazingly calm angelic voice.
Goku had 7 years in the afterlife training. We don't know how long it took him to get to SSJ2, but we knew he was well past that and had SSJ3 for a short period of time. For all we know, it could've took him 1 out of the 7 years, or maybe even 4 to 5 out of the 7 years to obtain SSJ2. We know Vegeta in that same time-frame was able to get SSJ2, while being alive, on Earth, and probably didn't have any training partners. Vegeta had stated multiple times that he was stronger than Gohan was at the cell games. To put that into perspective. Gohan had a rage boost, as well as SSJ2. He also had lost the use of an arm and still had enough strength to kill Super Perfect Cell. It's extremely obvious that Vegeta had the power to back up the claim that he surpassed Cell Saga Gohan, and he had SSJ2 prior to Babidi's posession of him. So my question is: How exactly was Vegeta able to go from SSJG2 all the way to SSJ2, surpass Gohan in 7 years with the resources he had on earth?
Goku lowkey could have used the dragon balls to reverse his time in the time chamber go inside for 2 more years and bully cell. And if his body needed rest during the time in the time chamber he could have easily used the dragon balls once again to tranform the time chamber into a calm and relaxing setting instead of hell on earth, gaining the bonuses of rest and training.
Curt, I just wanted to say that you my favorite UA-camr, not just in Dragon Ball, but all UA-cam. Glad you're uploading your quality content like always my fellow brother in Christ. I honestly don't know why people think Goku could have beaten Perfect Cell. The whole lead up to the Cell games Goku himself admitted that Cell was stronger than him, but we know Goku's always gonna be ready for a fight no matter how bad the odds are in his favor. Really though, Goku was just trying to have Gohan get s look at Cell and what his powers and skills were. He unfortunately didn't know Cell could produce Cell Jrs like he did but who could've? Well anyway, I'm just thankful that you're back brother. God bless you 👊🏽
Thanks! I was saying it took up to Seven years because that was the gap in time between cell and buu arcs. However, it is very valid that it wouldn't have taken that time to achieve SS2, because he also unlocked SS3.
Good to see you back bro! Your my favorite dragon ball channel also I love how you use scripture alot of times to get your point across. Theres always a Bible scripture for anything you’re going through in life!
I will always say Goku lied about this because he wanted gohan to do it. And the buu arc shows that he’s willing to lie and say he cannot defeat an enemy . Vegeta, fat buu and kid buu.
When you consider how much power Cell was holding back and how worn out Goku was afterwards(unable to protect himself from a cell junior), it’s a miracle he lasted as long as he did. No extra training could’ve put him ahead of Cell. If anything, Trunks would’ve been the next best option if he had the proper training. Just imagine if Gohan and Future Trunks trained together for their second day.
My gripe was always that if Goku mastered Super Saiyan as if it were like a mere base form, then why didn’t he just use a double Kaioken to reach the power of a SSJ2? I know the speculation was that his body wouldn’t handle it but he manages to do worse for his body with Blue Kaioken x10
I think back at this point, Toriyama hadn't considered stacking Kaioken on top of super saiyan and also, Kaioken was made to seem a bit inferior to Super saiyan.
You could just argue that the Kai’s techniques require some sort of peaceful state of mind that’s inherently impossible to achieve in the Super Saiyan state regardless of how much you acclimate to it. Since Goku always has to be in base to use a Spirit Bomb, maybe the Kaioken is similar? This is headcanon but it’s never actually explained so best we get is speculation lol
@@Newtype-78he did but his body was able to deal with it on a more massive scale. Goku also couldn’t go into super Saiyan 2 because of the lack of rage to cut loose. This is because he was sure that Gohan was stronger. There was no life or death battle for Goku. He was fine
To be fair if cell saw kaioken he could probably master it and use it better goku could due to his body but with constantly getting hurt his stamina especially without the senzu bean would have been wrecked.
In my head canon Goku kept saying he couldn't beat him to get in Gohan's head. If Gohan knew he could rely on his father, he wouldn't feel like it was all on him and wouldn't go all out. Goku didn't go all out. He held back by pretending to go all out, all to get Gohan to break through. Goku always beat the enemy himself because there was no one else. Now that Gohan was his equal he knew with his rage boost he would hit the next level quicker than Goku this time. All that trauma that Gohan experienced over the last few years really did a number on him. I think Goku believed if Gohan could unlock his potential and beat this "unbeatable" foe, that it might help with that trauma. Don't forget, Gohan was still a little hesitant while watching his father fight Cell, like asking "Why isn't he go all out?" Or something like that. Then he realized he had to fight and that it had to be him because Goku wasn't going to do it. Goku fought first to show Gohan Cell's moves and strength. Gohan picked that up. Goku knew he would have to pass the mantle and either die or leave. The Saiyans only came to Earth because of him. The Andriods were made specifically for Goku. He was a target and put everyone in danger for existing. That's just my 2 cents. But it's just my opinion and how I have chose to watch the show over the last 30 years. It will stay that way for the next 30.
He realized he reached his limits at that time and couldn't beat Cell because he knew the only way was to asend to the Ssj 2 which he wasn't ready to do yet but he knew Gohan could. He didn't have to fight him til desperation like he did Frieza because Cell wasn't a threat like that. He knew Gohan would win so he didn't and couldn't beat Cell and knew it. He blew him in half and it wasn't enough. There wasn't anything else he could do to win
You guys, the issue was TIME. Goku COULD be as strong but they did NOT HAVE THE TIME. Cell was too strong for further strengthening in the short amount of time they had. Gohan's genius potential was the only way.
I think the reason why he let gohan take over is because he realised he needed to push him so he could become stronger because in the future once he died everyone else died with him or something like that.
It was not the reason thou. The reason is Gohan had the potential to defeat Cell. Goku only starts focusing on training Gohan when he saw Gohan goes Ssj2 for the first time in the Time Chamber.
@jacoblewis4806 actually if cell saw anyone do kiaken or how ever it works since he didn't seem to know it but if cell could use kiaoken no one could beat him lol his saiyan DNA mixed with namekian would mean he could kiaoken x infinity and he would regenerate and get stronger from zenki lol. I have been saying that really no one could beat cell even now why revive frieza for the TOP perfect cell wasn't near as bad and is far stronger lol cell could go any ssj mixed with orange piccolo mixed with gold frieza or frieza black lol
He didn't witness SSJ2 in the manga in the time chamber but knew Gohan was stronger than him, had more potential like you say. I don't think he ever imagined Gohan could've ascended to an entirely new level. He just thought Gohan would get angry and his ki would go up. Eventually, but that was more than anger, it was a straight psychotic break for Gohan. And what's even crazier is that even having lost probably half his ki when his arm was busted, Super Perfect Cell was still weaker than him. If Vegeta didn't get in the way Gohan would've just wrecked him all over again, and I guess I can see why weakening Gohan made for a better final act. It would've been anti-climactic if Gohan just killed him right away, though I do wish we could've seen Gohan dominating, and THEN Vegeta gets in the way after realizing Trunks is dead.
The only problem with this is that goku states that he couldn't beat fat buu in his ss3 form from the start then later states that he could and knocks himself for not taking out buu when he could... ultimately wanting the younger generation to fight their own battles because he wouldnt always be around.. This is certainly the same as in the cell saga...I really think that he could have taken out cell with spirit power just like he did with kid buu no doubt! I think ultimately he wanted to open the flood gates of gohans true power either way both of them could have ultimately beaten cell... IMO!
You are right, there is literal evidence that you have shown that Goku was not strong enough to honestly beat cell. Only way he was winning is if he got lucky, or something happened to push him to a higher level. Like Gohan dying to cell in battle or something.
Goku could have beat cell with everything he had access to, the afterlife, 2 sets of dragon balls plus a week to prepare he could have found guru in heaven and get trunks and himself touched, with trunks getting his inner power unlocked cell could have gotten one shot. He could have used the dragon balls to change the setting of the time chamber so goku could get rest in the time chamber as well as using the dragon balls to reverse his maximum time in the time chamber with those 2 extra years of training he could have bullied cell. Or they could use the dragon to teleport both 17 and 18 out of his body and kill cell when hes in his imperfect form, they were ways but goku could have won but goku and the rest of the z fighters did nothing productive with the time they had access to, its simply embarrassing that cell was even a challenge with the stuff the z fighters had access to
@@nani4249 Interesting points, but I think the idea is how Goku could otherwise win while relying solely on the power he possesses. If we ignore all other outside influence, Goku just could not have won with his power alone.
What id there was somehow a way to reprogram Cell qnd he also gets redeemed like 17 and 18 and ends up like Piccolo and Vegeta where he becomes a sort of role model
I think you're totally right, BUT I disagree with the statement that Goku couldn't have "won" as a matter of principal. Goku DID "win" by my definition - Like you said, his Plan A was to take on Cell himself, and his plan B was for Gohan to, whose power he has already seen briefly exceed anything he could dream of at the time. When Goku landed that instant kamehameha, he won their fight in my book. I know technically he didn't, but if buddy landed a wound like that on damn near anybody else in the series they're cooked, plated up, and served piping hot to your door. Goku is an experienced fighter though, and I would guess that he understood that when he was dealing with Cell, he was dealing with a large number of unknown factors and that's why he even had a plan B to begin with. Good video big dog, you were spitting facts, no doubt. 👌
He couldn't beat cell because cell was made of him but cell was not made of Gohan, while Gohan was made of him but in a true sense. He Also knows Gohan was trained & raised by piccolo. Something cell couldn't mimic.
Goku could have wiped the floor with cell. He died and went to other world and went toe to toe with Pikkon who causally whooped perfect cell and Frieza simultaneously
Come on Guys, Goku can literally defeat Cell if he wants to even if we say he was full out to that battle. They have 9 days left before the tournament of Cell to start and he did'nt even think to train again for that amount of time. He and Gohan went picnic and spend time with each other. Those scenes were literally giving a vibe that there is nothing to worry about it's because he wants Gohan to surpass him. You know it's his son. But to think the character of Goku was literally to beat up cell it make sense. It's just writing and the plot. The Cell Saga was intended and meant for Gohan to shine and show his potential. Goku on the other hand, he could've deafeat cell if wanted to.
Goku was pretty much as strong as perfect cell If it comes down to it he woulda won against cell if he gotten that sensu bean but that wouldn’t be fair in the game he knew he lost and excepted it he didn’t want to win that way and he knew Gohan was strong and had potential to become more stronger so he let him fight Cell at the end of the day they played the celll games fair and they still won and defeated him
Yeah with everything the z fighters had access to like 2 sets of dragon balls, the time chamber and the entire afterlife, with all of that tien could have beaten cell in that moment.
Saying they needed SSJ2 to beat Cell is inaccurate, the transformation is just a multiplier, if Goku trained and raised his base strength logically he could beat Cell with enough training without needing SSJ2, case and point, Goku didn't need to go Super Saiyan to body 4th form Freeza in Resurrection F, he was strong enough in his base form
With all the prep time they had plus 2 sets of dragon ball they had access as well as the entire afterlife with king kai and having a 3 year head start its embarrassing that the z fighters struggled as they did with a threat they could have taken out.
You guys underestimate Cell. His base form COULD get stronger but Cell was TOO STRONG for the amount of time they had. Goku took 5 - 7 years of intense nonestop training while Vegeta needed Majin for his SSJ2. Gohan's genius potential was the answer to everything.
@@j.danielcharles2046 Pretty sure it's been confirmed that Vegeta didn't need Majin to access SSJ2. He needed the Majin boost to match the overall power that Goku was able to achieve by training in the Otherworld.
It's accurate because the SSJ transformation itself was a wall. They couldn't, at the time, increase their base power levels through training in the ROSAT. The only other option was SSJ2
The base form being stronger isn’t referenced that much until after the buu saga… I’d like to imagine as their normal SSJ forms they are building intense power and strain. The most goku would’ve did is go grade 3 like trunks which he already knew how to do. Super saiyan original forms included a lot of taxation on the body like stamina and physical strain. The god forms are divine ki forms focused on balanced ki. Yes they look slim in these forms and not as bulky but I think that’s the reason. I feel like we’ve always had that conversation under the radar. (Forms, physical appearances, strength etc)
Your logic is flawed if cell was such a huge threat that not even he could defeat him then why would you ever give your opponent the advantage of a senzu bean.
I mean it was pretty obvious to awaken Gohan. He needed a certain push for him to go beyond SSJ, because if that was the case why couldn't future Gohan beat the androids? Because Goku wasn't in his life lol
Goku's super saiyan 1 power level isn't enough to beat Cell. He can't do the super saiyan 2 that time. That's why Goku decided to quit and admit that he can't win the fight. Goku knows that his son can beat Cell because the kids surpassed the super saiyan 1 and that's enough to crush the enemy.
He literally beat cell, and have him a sensu bean to push himself and his friends, he literally beat him but everyone disregards it lol, he knew he could beat him and he did, but he also knew that he could push gohan. He knew he could beat him and chose to let him grow stronger to train his son, this was stated by toriyama himself, hence why it played out the way it did during the cell saga, he didn’t give up he was training his son…
@@slickadooie The video says that Goku was weaker than Cell, and you make a comment saying the Goku beat Cell. Given the context, your comment looks like you don't agree with what is said in the video. If you do agree, I don't see the point of your comment then. I also think you're wrong when you say that he knew he could beat Cell but wanted Gohan to grow. He beat Cell by tricking him, that type of trick won't work twice. It was his trump card. He did it, Cell regenerated, and knowing that he was weaker than Cell, he decided to give up since he knew Gohan was stronger.
@@pkj2148 you can “think” I’m wrong but like I stated toriyama himself said what I said in an article that came out signed by him and stated by him lol, I’m saying nothing but what the creator himself has said LOL
@@pkj2148 I’m disagreeing with the video because he’s clueless as to why goku would do such a thing but toriyama himself has stated why, that is what I was saying l.
This reminds me of when Job gave up and willingly suffered the torments placed upon him by Satan because he knew that only our Lord and Savior can defeat the powers of evil. Like only The Son Gohan can defeat the perfect being Cell.
Top comment. Thanks bro
awesome comparison mate! I've pinned your comment :)
Goku dying at the end of the Cell fight and Gohan's victory (with help) was poetic redemption for what happened in the original timeline. While Goku was still destined to die, he almost accepted it as his fate since it's what happened to him in the other timeline. What changed was his ability to help his son (the future) change things and save everyone.
This change in the timeline caused ramifcations throughout the rest of the series and is constantly alluded back to. Goku was hesitant to help during the Buu saga because he felt it was wrong to alter events of the living world as one that has already died. We then see this issue play out again in the Zamasu saga, where it's now gods that are taking issue with what they've done.
He could have found a way to win if it was all up to him. Not saying he would have won for sure, but he often rises to the occasion when the stakes are highest and he's all that's left.
If you remember, there was a moment he was ready to fight again when he became briefly convinced Gohan wasn't ready afterall. This was interrupted by Cell stealing the bag of senzu beans from Krillin and the Cell Juniors fight, etc.
In this case, no, Goku couldn't beat Cell. As he said to Gohan, he was going all-out in their fight. Cell, on the other hand, was intentionally holding back to enjoy the fight. He stated that it's no fun unless the fighters are almost evenly matched.
Goku's request for a Senzu was an act of desperation because out of everyone else their (excluding Gohan) he had the best chance of beating Cell. However, he did this before witnessing Cell's power-up against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. When he saw Cell's full power, he was shocked like everyone else. Meaning he didn't stand a chance.
People usually think Goku was stronger than Gohan because his fight with Cell looked more impressive than Gohan's initially. But what a lot of fans ignore or miss is the context behind those fights when comparing them. Cell wasn't trying to end his fight with Goku quickly, he was enjoying himself. But when Goku gave-up and picked Gohan, Cell was insulated and intended to kill Gohan quickly so he can keep fighting Goku. He even said so himself in the Japanese version of the anime, and the manga.
@DigitalWraith Well said. What I've realized is that this Fandom is very visual in terms of understanding, so they tend to not take in the minute details behind the scenes. Gohan was implied to be stronger than Goku throughout the entire Cell Games, even as a Ssj. Cell was attempting to kill Gohan quickly, and yet *couldn't*. Not only that, Gohan didn't throw out a single attack during their initial scuffle. When he did, he made Cell bleed, something not even Goku could accomplish.
@@YamchaSama-Z gohan was direcly said to be stronger than goku, it wasnt even an implication. You would be surprised by how badly some dragon ball fans understand the show
If Goku knew Gohan wasn’t up to the task he would have kept fighting even if it was a losing fight just like when he fought Frieza. But ever since he witnessed Gohan’s real power first hand he just knew that was his ace against Cell… no only did they needed to break the SSJ wall they also needed to tap into Gohan’s inner reserves of power!
The craziest thing is Goku didn’t even lose any layer of his Gi. Not even down to his blue or shirtless. So as a kid I’m like huhhhh?? You’re what?? Frieza took him down to shirtless, Buu got him down to blue, and he quits with Cell simply giving a hole on the back smh.
Good to see you again, Brother. Hope you're doing well.
Great video as usual! Looking forward to the next one!
I have an idea on how Goku MIGHT have been able to beat cell. When he did the instant transmission kamehameha he obliterated cell from the waste up. So, if he was able to make the attack large enough to hit cells entire body, maybe bit larger than Cell just for good measure, he MIGHT have been able to kill Cell. This is of course if Goku was able to destroy EVERY last cell in Cells body, and he was able to put whatever power he had left into the attack and survive.
Thanks so much as always! I know I said I was back publishing 6 months ago and it didn't happen, but this time hopefully it will be better ahahha
I really would have liked to have seen that. I think that was Goku's intention but in the end he lacked the power at that point and also Cell's body was too durable.
@@KaioshinCurt yeah and cell also revived that as long as a nucleus or single cell in intact he can regenerate.
Exceptionally great video, what I love most about your videos is not just that you know what you’re talking about. But you have an amazingly calm angelic voice.
Goku had 7 years in the afterlife training. We don't know how long it took him to get to SSJ2, but we knew he was well past that and had SSJ3 for a short period of time.
For all we know, it could've took him 1 out of the 7 years, or maybe even 4 to 5 out of the 7 years to obtain SSJ2. We know Vegeta in that same time-frame was able to get SSJ2, while being alive, on Earth, and probably didn't have any training partners.
Vegeta had stated multiple times that he was stronger than Gohan was at the cell games. To put that into perspective. Gohan had a rage boost, as well as SSJ2. He also had lost the use of an arm and still had enough strength to kill Super Perfect Cell. It's extremely obvious that Vegeta had the power to back up the claim that he surpassed Cell Saga Gohan, and he had SSJ2 prior to Babidi's posession of him.
So my question is: How exactly was Vegeta able to go from SSJG2 all the way to SSJ2, surpass Gohan in 7 years with the resources he had on earth?
Goku lowkey could have used the dragon balls to reverse his time in the time chamber go inside for 2 more years and bully cell.
And if his body needed rest during the time in the time chamber he could have easily used the dragon balls once again to tranform the time chamber into a calm and relaxing setting instead of hell on earth, gaining the bonuses of rest and training.
Curt, I just wanted to say that you my favorite UA-camr, not just in Dragon Ball, but all UA-cam. Glad you're uploading your quality content like always my fellow brother in Christ.
I honestly don't know why people think Goku could have beaten Perfect Cell. The whole lead up to the Cell games Goku himself admitted that Cell was stronger than him, but we know Goku's always gonna be ready for a fight no matter how bad the odds are in his favor. Really though, Goku was just trying to have Gohan get s look at Cell and what his powers and skills were. He unfortunately didn't know Cell could produce Cell Jrs like he did but who could've? Well anyway, I'm just thankful that you're back brother. God bless you 👊🏽
Thanks! I'm very honoured :) I'm so happy to be back, God bless you too :)
UA-cam did not let me know about this video! Thank you for beinging this topic. Yes I was upset when Goku left a minor to take care of everything....
Hey Saiya! Thank you for watching :)
Curt is back !!! Where did you get the thing about 7 years for Goku to achieve SS2 though? A few years of intense training would have done it
Thanks! I was saying it took up to Seven years because that was the gap in time between cell and buu arcs. However, it is very valid that it wouldn't have taken that time to achieve SS2, because he also unlocked SS3.
Thanks for the reply! You are a true Kaioshin !@@KaioshinCurt
We see what kurt was watching
hahahahahhah
even if goku did go ssj2, gohan was so much stronger than his dad that goku's best efforts were nothing but a warmup to him
Good to see you back bro! Your my favorite dragon ball channel also I love how you use scripture alot of times to get your point across. Theres always a Bible scripture for anything you’re going through in life!
I appreciate that, I'm so shocked that I could be your favourite! But I'm honoured. Yes I am always looking to put the Lord's word into the videos.
I will always say Goku lied about this because he wanted gohan to do it. And the buu arc shows that he’s willing to lie and say he cannot defeat an enemy . Vegeta, fat buu and kid buu.
Exactly
This
Love this channel man
Thanks for your support mate :)
When you consider how much power Cell was holding back and how worn out Goku was afterwards(unable to protect himself from a cell junior), it’s a miracle he lasted as long as he did. No extra training could’ve put him ahead of Cell. If anything, Trunks would’ve been the next best option if he had the proper training. Just imagine if Gohan and Future Trunks trained together for their second day.
it’s the senzu that’s particularly egregious
My gripe was always that if Goku mastered Super Saiyan as if it were like a mere base form, then why didn’t he just use a double Kaioken to reach the power of a SSJ2? I know the speculation was that his body wouldn’t handle it but he manages to do worse for his body with Blue Kaioken x10
I think back at this point, Toriyama hadn't considered stacking Kaioken on top of super saiyan and also, Kaioken was made to seem a bit inferior to Super saiyan.
Kaioken strains the body, multipliers don't work like super saiyan and when he did it with blue he almost died
You could just argue that the Kai’s techniques require some sort of peaceful state of mind that’s inherently impossible to achieve in the Super Saiyan state regardless of how much you acclimate to it. Since Goku always has to be in base to use a Spirit Bomb, maybe the Kaioken is similar? This is headcanon but it’s never actually explained so best we get is speculation lol
@@Newtype-78he did but his body was able to deal with it on a more massive scale. Goku also couldn’t go into super Saiyan 2 because of the lack of rage to cut loose. This is because he was sure that Gohan was stronger. There was no life or death battle for Goku. He was fine
To be fair if cell saw kaioken he could probably master it and use it better goku could due to his body but with constantly getting hurt his stamina especially without the senzu bean would have been wrecked.
In my head canon Goku kept saying he couldn't beat him to get in Gohan's head. If Gohan knew he could rely on his father, he wouldn't feel like it was all on him and wouldn't go all out.
Goku didn't go all out. He held back by pretending to go all out, all to get Gohan to break through. Goku always beat the enemy himself because there was no one else. Now that Gohan was his equal he knew with his rage boost he would hit the next level quicker than Goku this time. All that trauma that Gohan experienced over the last few years really did a number on him. I think Goku believed if Gohan could unlock his potential and beat this "unbeatable" foe, that it might help with that trauma.
Don't forget, Gohan was still a little hesitant while watching his father fight Cell, like asking "Why isn't he go all out?" Or something like that. Then he realized he had to fight and that it had to be him because Goku wasn't going to do it.
Goku fought first to show Gohan Cell's moves and strength. Gohan picked that up.
Goku knew he would have to pass the mantle and either die or leave. The Saiyans only came to Earth because of him. The Andriods were made specifically for Goku. He was a target and put everyone in danger for existing.
That's just my 2 cents. But it's just my opinion and how I have chose to watch the show over the last 30 years. It will stay that way for the next 30.
Please don’t leave us again!🙇🏻♂️
I'm sorry for all the inconsistency in the last two years, I truly can't believe it has happened, but I'll be trying to be consistent again now.
He realized he reached his limits at that time and couldn't beat Cell because he knew the only way was to asend to the Ssj 2 which he wasn't ready to do yet but he knew Gohan could. He didn't have to fight him til desperation like he did Frieza because Cell wasn't a threat like that. He knew Gohan would win so he didn't and couldn't beat Cell and knew it. He blew him in half and it wasn't enough. There wasn't anything else he could do to win
Welcome back :)
Welcome back Curt!
Thanks mate!
I used to think he held back because he knew death was eventually going to stick for him and earth needed a new hero
You are right, but Goku would let Gohan beat cell even if he was strong enough like he did with Buu
WB Curt!
THANK YOU BRO
You guys, the issue was TIME. Goku COULD be as strong but they did NOT HAVE THE TIME. Cell was too strong for further strengthening in the short amount of time they had. Gohan's genius potential was the only way.
I think the reason why he let gohan take over is because he realised he needed to push him so he could become stronger because in the future once he died everyone else died with him or something like that.
It was not the reason thou. The reason is Gohan had the potential to defeat Cell. Goku only starts focusing on training Gohan when he saw Gohan goes Ssj2 for the first time in the Time Chamber.
YOOOOO IT'S OUR BOIIIIII
Great to see you again my guy
Great to see you too mate! I'm trying to be back now
It would have been interesting to see Goku try Super Kaioken as a last ditch effort against Cell
That would have been cool yes!
And have Cell do the exact same thing lmfao
@jacoblewis4806 actually if cell saw anyone do kiaken or how ever it works since he didn't seem to know it but if cell could use kiaoken no one could beat him lol his saiyan DNA mixed with namekian would mean he could kiaoken x infinity and he would regenerate and get stronger from zenki lol. I have been saying that really no one could beat cell even now why revive frieza for the TOP perfect cell wasn't near as bad and is far stronger lol cell could go any ssj mixed with orange piccolo mixed with gold frieza or frieza black lol
He just wasn’t strong enough. He would have needed the Super Sayain 2 multiplier.
He didn't witness SSJ2 in the manga in the time chamber but knew Gohan was stronger than him, had more potential like you say. I don't think he ever imagined Gohan could've ascended to an entirely new level. He just thought Gohan would get angry and his ki would go up. Eventually, but that was more than anger, it was a straight psychotic break for Gohan. And what's even crazier is that even having lost probably half his ki when his arm was busted, Super Perfect Cell was still weaker than him.
If Vegeta didn't get in the way Gohan would've just wrecked him all over again, and I guess I can see why weakening Gohan made for a better final act. It would've been anti-climactic if Gohan just killed him right away, though I do wish we could've seen Gohan dominating, and THEN Vegeta gets in the way after realizing Trunks is dead.
Ayyy curt, love to see someone rocking a goatee, I got one too
Nice bro!
Bro simply wasn’t strong enough yet 😭😭😭
So we can sum it up too "because Akira said so" or the plot is stronger then we thought.
The only problem with this is that goku states that he couldn't beat fat buu in his ss3 form from the start then later states that he could and knocks himself for not taking out buu when he could... ultimately wanting the younger generation to fight their own battles because he wouldnt always be around.. This is certainly the same as in the cell saga...I really think that he could have taken out cell with spirit power just like he did with kid buu no doubt! I think ultimately he wanted to open the flood gates of gohans true power either way both of them could have ultimately beaten cell... IMO!
You are right, there is literal evidence that you have shown that Goku was not strong enough to honestly beat cell. Only way he was winning is if he got lucky, or something happened to push him to a higher level. Like Gohan dying to cell in battle or something.
Goku could have beat cell with everything he had access to, the afterlife, 2 sets of dragon balls plus a week to prepare he could have found guru in heaven and get trunks and himself touched, with trunks getting his inner power unlocked cell could have gotten one shot.
He could have used the dragon balls to change the setting of the time chamber so goku could get rest in the time chamber as well as using the dragon balls to reverse his maximum time in the time chamber with those 2 extra years of training he could have bullied cell.
Or they could use the dragon to teleport both 17 and 18 out of his body and kill cell when hes in his imperfect form, they were ways but goku could have won but goku and the rest of the z fighters did nothing productive with the time they had access to, its simply embarrassing that cell was even a challenge with the stuff the z fighters had access to
@@nani4249 Interesting points, but I think the idea is how Goku could otherwise win while relying solely on the power he possesses. If we ignore all other outside influence, Goku just could not have won with his power alone.
3:52 not gonna lie bad writing gohan states this can’t be dada full power yet the panel just before goku states this is just half my full power 🙄
What id there was somehow a way to reprogram Cell qnd he also gets redeemed like 17 and 18 and ends up like Piccolo and Vegeta where he becomes a sort of role model
Great fucking video. Subbed.
Thanks bro, great to have you :)
After a bit in the room of spirit and time, Curt has returned, stronger then be4👍
HAHAHAH love your take on my hiatus, bless you bro!
@@KaioshinCurt np, u 2
I think you're totally right, BUT I disagree with the statement that Goku couldn't have "won" as a matter of principal. Goku DID "win" by my definition - Like you said, his Plan A was to take on Cell himself, and his plan B was for Gohan to, whose power he has already seen briefly exceed anything he could dream of at the time.
When Goku landed that instant kamehameha, he won their fight in my book. I know technically he didn't, but if buddy landed a wound like that on damn near anybody else in the series they're cooked, plated up, and served piping hot to your door. Goku is an experienced fighter though, and I would guess that he understood that when he was dealing with Cell, he was dealing with a large number of unknown factors and that's why he even had a plan B to begin with.
Good video big dog, you were spitting facts, no doubt. 👌
I think if all the z fighters went up against cell at the same time cell would definitely lose the spirit bomb wasn’t even used
He couldn't beat cell because cell was made of him but cell was not made of Gohan, while Gohan was made of him but in a true sense. He Also knows Gohan was trained & raised by piccolo. Something cell couldn't mimic.
Goku could have wiped the floor with cell. He died and went to other world and went toe to toe with Pikkon who causally whooped perfect cell and Frieza simultaneously
Goku always finds a way
Come on Guys, Goku can literally defeat Cell if he wants to even if we say he was full out to that battle. They have 9 days left before the tournament of Cell to start and he did'nt even think to train again for that amount of time. He and Gohan went picnic and spend time with each other. Those scenes were literally giving a vibe that there is nothing to worry about it's because he wants Gohan to surpass him. You know it's his son. But to think the character of Goku was literally to beat up cell it make sense. It's just writing and the plot. The Cell Saga was intended and meant for Gohan to shine and show his potential. Goku on the other hand, he could've deafeat cell if wanted to.
Who ever said goku could beat perfect cell?
Didnt goku say he could beat cell but he knew he wasnt gonna be around forever so he wanted gohan to do it? What dub is that?
So how long did it take to get super Saiyan 3?
Idgaf what anyone says a full power Kamehameha at that rang should of obliterated cell
All of this was common knowledge
Goku was pretty much as strong as perfect cell If it comes down to it he woulda won against cell if he gotten that sensu bean but that wouldn’t be fair in the game he knew he lost and excepted it he didn’t want to win that way and he knew Gohan was strong and had potential to become more stronger so he let him fight Cell at the end of the day they played the celll games fair and they still won and defeated him
unless goku was able to go ssj2 and outsmart cell and destroy him atom by atom so he couldnt regen with a zenkai boost, goku wasnt winning
Because he WANTED his son to beat Cell
Yeah with everything the z fighters had access to like 2 sets of dragon balls, the time chamber and the entire afterlife, with all of that tien could have beaten cell in that moment.
Cell power level (Perfect Form): 125000000
SS Goku (Full Power): 120000000
Theres no evidence that suggest it took goku 7 years to reach ssj2
Because who ever made the cartoon didn’t want him 2 lmao
Saying they needed SSJ2 to beat Cell is inaccurate, the transformation is just a multiplier, if Goku trained and raised his base strength logically he could beat Cell with enough training without needing SSJ2, case and point, Goku didn't need to go Super Saiyan to body 4th form Freeza in Resurrection F, he was strong enough in his base form
With all the prep time they had plus 2 sets of dragon ball they had access as well as the entire afterlife with king kai and having a 3 year head start its embarrassing that the z fighters struggled as they did with a threat they could have taken out.
You guys underestimate Cell. His base form COULD get stronger but Cell was TOO STRONG for the amount of time they had. Goku took 5 - 7 years of intense nonestop training while Vegeta needed Majin for his SSJ2. Gohan's genius potential was the answer to everything.
@@j.danielcharles2046 Pretty sure it's been confirmed that Vegeta didn't need Majin to access SSJ2. He needed the Majin boost to match the overall power that Goku was able to achieve by training in the Otherworld.
It's accurate because the SSJ transformation itself was a wall. They couldn't, at the time, increase their base power levels through training in the ROSAT. The only other option was SSJ2
The base form being stronger isn’t referenced that much until after the buu saga… I’d like to imagine as their normal SSJ forms they are building intense power and strain. The most goku would’ve did is go grade 3 like trunks which he already knew how to do. Super saiyan original forms included a lot of taxation on the body like stamina and physical strain. The god forms are divine ki forms focused on balanced ki. Yes they look slim in these forms and not as bulky but I think that’s the reason. I feel like we’ve always had that conversation under the radar. (Forms, physical appearances, strength etc)
He didnt need 7 years for ss2. Did you forget ss3?
Your logic is flawed if cell was such a huge threat that not even he could defeat him then why would you ever give your opponent the advantage of a senzu bean.
Needed the "impossible odds" for gohan to awaken
I mean it was pretty obvious to awaken Gohan. He needed a certain push for him to go beyond SSJ, because if that was the case why couldn't future Gohan beat the androids? Because Goku wasn't in his life lol
They should of just jumped him instead of doing a one on what fight
#ENDERS
Because Cell was stronger.
Oh yeah the heart virus probably weakened goku abit.
I think at that point in the Cell arc, the heart virus was irrelevant but I agree it could have limited Goku's true power.
He did beat cell, ask me
He just can’t
Because he was weaker
Goku's super saiyan 1 power level isn't enough to beat Cell. He can't do the super saiyan 2 that time. That's why Goku decided to quit and admit that he can't win the fight. Goku knows that his son can beat Cell because the kids surpassed the super saiyan 1 and that's enough to crush the enemy.
He literally beat cell, and have him a sensu bean to push himself and his friends, he literally beat him but everyone disregards it lol, he knew he could beat him and he did, but he also knew that he could push gohan. He knew he could beat him and chose to let him grow stronger to train his son, this was stated by toriyama himself, hence why it played out the way it did during the cell saga, he didn’t give up he was training his son…
He didn't beat Cell because he was stronger, he just caught him by surprise.
@@pkj2148 I didn’t say he was stronger then cell all I said was that he beat him, wether catching him off guard or not goku beat him lol.
@@slickadooie The video says that Goku was weaker than Cell, and you make a comment saying the Goku beat Cell. Given the context, your comment looks like you don't agree with what is said in the video. If you do agree, I don't see the point of your comment then.
I also think you're wrong when you say that he knew he could beat Cell but wanted Gohan to grow. He beat Cell by tricking him, that type of trick won't work twice. It was his trump card. He did it, Cell regenerated, and knowing that he was weaker than Cell, he decided to give up since he knew Gohan was stronger.
@@pkj2148 you can “think” I’m wrong but like I stated toriyama himself said what I said in an article that came out signed by him and stated by him lol, I’m saying nothing but what the creator himself has said LOL
@@pkj2148 I’m disagreeing with the video because he’s clueless as to why goku would do such a thing but toriyama himself has stated why, that is what I was saying l.
Cell was stronger yes but he wasn't holding back in the climax of their fight