Are private schools better than public schools? | Courtney Facts | ABC News
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 січ 2023
- Is there really a difference between public and private schools in Australia? Courtney Act and Shane Jenek debate whether private schools are worth the higher fees, and whether public schools are getting the short end of the funding stick.
Subscribe: ab.co/3yqPOZ5 Read more here:
ABC News In-depth takes you deeper on the big stories, with long-form journalism from Four Corners, Foreign Correspondent, Australian Story, Planet America and more, and explainers from ABC News Video Lab.
Watch more ABC News content ad-free on ABC iview: ab.co/2OB7Mk1
For more from ABC News, click here: ab.co/2kxYCZY
Get breaking news and livestreams from our ABC News channel: / newsonabc
Like ABC News on Facebook: / abcnews.au
Follow ABC News on Instagram: / abcnews_au
Follow ABC News on Twitter: / abcnews
Note: In most cases, our captions are auto-generated.
#ABCNewsIndepth #ABCNewsAustralia
We decided to send our son to a public high school. We thought the fees for the private school is better used to pay his University fees/loan. Imagine a new graduate has to pay back so much these days.
If he needs extra learning, we will send him to a once a week coaching learning. They normally cost around $2500/year.
Private schools are not private. They are tax-payer funded. They're only private in as much as only children of rich parents can go there. Education should be a leveller, not a divider
It is interesting how the people who preach austerity are the first in line for subsidies, isn't it?
Lots of good (mostly) respectful debate in these comments. I really enjoyed reading what you all have to say.
I don’t understand why the public has to pay for religious private schools. Seems like bit of a bludge to me.
All schools are religious.
Funding to private schools encourages less reliance on tax and inflation funded public schools. So essentially an incentive for less welfare. Like funding a job service.
In comparison, mass funding to companies like qantas has no benefit to Australians because government is obligated to provide air travel.
@@sheavague7058 lmao what? Could you point to public schools have religious affiliation?
@@zennydoo they place faith and authority in government.
You seems to have a very dogmatic view of what constitutes a religion.
@@sheavague7058 I think you need to look up the definition of religion. Your comment is evidence of how poorly funded education systems let students fall through the cracks. My condolences.
When i was growing up, the people across the street sent their kids to a private school for both primary and secondary education. The girl went to uni and got a job in a call centre, the boy dropped out of uni in the first year and was working in a bar....the dad was better off buying 2 houses, with the money saved, and giving them one each when they were ready to start their own families.
The irony is that private schools send more students to uni, but the private school kids were spoon fed so much, they struggle in such an independent environment (i include myself in this.) A public education is a much better preparation for uni.
I wonder where ABC staff send their children.
I went to an all boys Christian school 25yrs ago. The culture there was extremely misogynistic, homophobic, racist. Not sure what public schools are like but I would hope that there's more diversity and acceptance
I can corroborate this. We didn’t hold anger towards any minority. But we sure made those jokes, bullied and insulted those groups. We even had minority friends, but definitely had cognitive dissonance.
Not a question that needs to be asked.
Forgot to mention scaling.... smart kids who go to poorer underfunded public schools get scaled down, less smart kids at private schools get scaled up.... the hsc includes this school averaging scaling system which disadvantages those at public schools
That simply isn't true
Defund private schools. The public should not be subsidising religion.
Religious school or not the government shouldn't subsidize private education
Do you support removing all government incentives to be less reliant on government funding? How about removing private health rebates? Or funding for job services? Or community grants?
@@sheavague7058 yes, private insurance and Job Search network are a colossal waste of money funnelling taxpayer money into private corporations and should be shutdown and the money ploughed straight into public health and a government run CES respectively.
@@sheavague7058 some of those are good for communities. Private health insurance shouldn't exist, healthcare shouldn't be a privilege for the rich eg: dental care and mental health care.
@@zennydoo private health care will always exist. Government will always have to draw a line on what they provide but private companies don't. Best you could do is minimize it.
If you get rid of private schools then government would have to spend millions in funding more public schools. Thus lowering resources for public schools.
There are many reasons - quality of teachers who get paid better than public schools, resources and facilities, higher expectation of achievement. After all you are a paying customer at private vs the default school in your area for free. Yes they are very expensive but parents are choosing this over public due to the decline of public and the widening gap between the two approaches. More recently also, private schools with their religious backgrounds are better at protecting children from the increasing DEI push which is overstepping the mark around gender and children's sexuality.
what are you basing this off?
Private schools are not interested in your child, they are interested in the fees you pay.
I have heard so many instances of this, including my own experience, that I would not send my little one to a private school unless there were extraordinary circumstances.
At my work, we had a team leader from Haileybury. The company had to sack him because he couldn't understand that the Union had to be placated . He kept rubbing the delegates up the wrong way...either stop manufacturing or get rid of Marcus....see ya Marcus!
Good balanced piece.
They missed the aspect of the effect of kids going to single sex schools. Lots of research shows kids shouldn't be segregated during the formative years.
Private schools are absolute babies and crumble once they hit the real world. Seen it over and over and over again
My dad had bought 4 houses in Melbourne by about 40 years old(he bought more since, and helped me and my brother buy property also). He didn't go to high school at all...!
At my work (large multi national manufacturer) we have all walks of life there, all from different backgrounds and education levels. It doesn't matter were you start, but were you finish...right?
In NSW the government is very slow at building new public schools in new build areas. The Private sector is new schools in these areas straight away. Parents are then forced to send their children to private schools.
Government doesnt want you to prosper.....it wants you to struggle all your life, and in turn , you cannot help your kids to have a better life....why do think that each generation is no better off than the last?
Is it meant to be ‘than’ instead of ‘thank’
I wonder?
I'm sorry but I can't believe for a second that a school getting twice as much funding per student as its neighbour produces essentially the same educational outcomes. That's obviously bunk. We know it's bunk. How on Earth were those socioeconomic controls calculated?
Exactly. I went to a regional public school, then got into a top Australian university. The difference between educational levels was astonishing. So astonishing that I felt extremely out of place and years behind, so I left for a small community uni. I've heard similar stories from other public school kids.
‘You get what you pay for’ is an attractive argument but education isn’t merely a financial transaction. The studies that control for parents’ socio-economic status show there are a range of determinants to education outcomes - some of which happen outside of school. I have no reason to disbelieve these studies as the results have been replicated in many countries over many years… Put another way, if there was a simple strong correlation between money spent and educational outcomes then there would be a large difference in outcomes between schools that charge tens of thousands per year and those that don’t - but there’s not.
@@shamusenright5387 But there is a significant difference. Private schools always rank higher in final results. And like I said, the people I know who attended private schools learned MUCH more than I did. Not to mention their connection to universities, sister schools, industry, etc. Look at the successful people in Australia, they mostly all went to private schools. Why would people fork out hundreds of thousands of dollars for there to be no difference. It's ludicrous. Everyone deserves a fair chance.
@@mushroomqueen8033 I did just fine going to uni from a public school but that's just my experience. Perhaps there's a study comparing public vs private experience at university. I'm not aware of anything.
@@shamusenright5387 Can I ask what uni you went to? Bc at MelbUni the other students were lightyears ahead of me
My partner went to a private school. I went public.
I wish I had the connections she has.
Sending my kids to private, I think that any advantage is worth it. We know you become like the people you hang around. And I think the tolerance for poor behaviour is lower at private schools
I went to public but my partner is EU - Finland they basically have all public schools with very high results. No connections just well-educated people with an importance of outcomes. I have friends and family who have done very well in life from public but I think it really depends on the public school they go to.
Better than* it says thank
The claim that there is no difference between private & public schools once socio-economic factors are considered is rubbish. You just need to look at the HSC results to see this is wrong. The top non-selective high school in 2022 was in 55th palace. This was behind dozens of non-selective private schools. The non-selective schools which make the top 100 list are dominated by private schools with only a handful of public schools. This is the pattern each year.
While what you said is true, you also need to consider that fact the non-selective private school are not exactly non-selective. If you are poor performing, have a history of not meeting school expectations, high levels of truancy, etc, the "non-selective" private school can terminate your enrolment. And guess what? You then get sent to your local non-selective public school. Guess who else goes to non-selective public schools? Kids of parents who do not value education. So, the fact that the top 100 are dominated by private school only shows that as a whole, private school have a greater proportion of students (and parents) who value education and a high ATAR. But when you consider the individual student, there is little difference between private & public schools. (i.e. Your child will have more high-achieving friends if he or she was in a private school. However, that does not mean that your child would perform better in a private vs public school.)
@@amk7703 So now you are blaming the parents for not "valuing education". Not all parents can afford to send their children to private schools. Not all parents can afford to live in areas with well-ranked public schools. Not all children HAVE parents, or high functioning parents. This is where the government needs to step up and give those children a helping hand, otherwise they will fall through the cracks, and continue the cycle.
@@mushroomqueen8033 I think you have misread my comment (and I can understand why). I did not blame anyone for not "valuing education". What I was trying to say was that if a parent does not value education, then there is ZERO chance that they would send their kids to a private school. So, these kids will then end up in public schools. So, it would be expected that public schools on average will produce worse results. However, as mentioned in my original comment, I do NOT believe that private schools are any better than public schools. So, to your point that "Not all parents can afford to send their children to private schools. Not all parents can afford to live in areas with well-ranked public schools.", my response is: so what? - In fact, what I really like about public schools is the diversity of friends they make, across all socio-economic backgrounds. It helps kids better understand the world, and allow them to build empathy.
@@amk7703 Thanks for clearing that up, sorry for misunderstanding.
As someone who has attended both private and public schools in Australia, and both prestigious and low-ranked universities, I do believe there is a HUGE difference in terms of educational standards. But I totally agree to your point public schools creating more empathy and understanding. I'm so grateful I went to public schools where I made friends with people of all different backgrounds, learned empathy and understanding, and creative thinking. But I do wish the standard of education was higher. I wish I had more opportunities, or even knew what opportunities were out there. I didn't know anything about university, or what careers were out there. My school really pushed TAFE and vocational jobs, and I knew I didn't want that. I knew I was smart enough for something else, but I didn't know what else was out there. This is why we need to start fund public schools more, improve the educational standards, and move towards defunding private schools.
Sent my child to a private high school because the local government high schools were rough and had gangs. So glad I did. It was an excellent high school.
Rational parents
In my experience, going from Public High to Private High School and back to public again over the span of three states of Australia WA(public) NSW(private) and Qld(public). I was shocked at the level of education in private school, the speech and curriculum was next level, I could barely understand the mathematics they were learning it was so much higher level then public school education. After being in private I educationally excelled in public. I knew algebra, trigonometry, etc before my public peers. I was able to top my class and had knowledge that gave me the ability to help recieve public school grants, showed them what sister countries were and helped start a permiculture garden that won awards locally. They still have sister country school with India school and the garden 14 years later.
Private school will always trump in my opinion. I would rather be the bottom of the class in a top education facility then the top of the class in a facility that is behind nationally.
Side note*
The education system was not 'aligned' back then, so that was a contributing factor also moving across states/schools, all were learning at different paces and levels.
As a mother today, coming from the family background I do. I've always had the opinion that my children will excell in private school and I intend to provide the best education my money can afford. It isn't just about the education either. It is the way the school holds their values and hold their children accountable of themselves and the behaviour is impeccable. The environment was less toxic and disruptive in private school setting.
But public school Excell in sport !
Great debate and insight in this article.
i dont use any of that and computers do it for us quicker then we can... education is irrelevant and moving forward it will become more and more irrelevant
I agree that the standard is higher in private schools which is the very reason we need to get rid of private schools
@@resolecca is right. Read the book Waiting for Gonski essentially an extended version of this but with more information on the imbalance that private/independent schools create!
can you stop taking my tax money then?
Most ppl have an answer already.
Been working in Catholic schools for over 10 years now and in that time have done hundreds of enrolment interviews. Parents aren't choosing schools because of academics - that's actually low on the list. Higher on the list are: Pastoral care, behavioural management system, extra-curricular opportunities, which school the child's friends are going to, catering for learning difficulties, school values, staff dedication, to name several. All of these are more important to most parents than academic achievement.
The ABC acts like hardly anyone knows that academic achievement is very similar between public and private. That's false. The vast majority of parents know this.
What you need to look out for are schools that sing their own praises over academic achievement since they are the ones who do everything but literally push their low achieving students out the door before they graduate so they can't bring down the school's report. These schools simply do not provide for diverse learners and would rather kick students out of their schools than work to build them up.
but why should they get tax dollars?
@@windwaker0rules Because they contribute to society
@@deodrasshelios7957 in the same way that exclusive country clubs do but we dont give lambos tax dollars instead we tax them.
@@windwaker0rules Are you seriously arguing that Catholic schools are like country clubs? Are you drunk?
02:20 Send their sons there.
The background music is distracting and making it difficult to understand what's being said. Spoils what otherwise is an interesting production style and content. It's a bit ableist, frankly. Find someone else to do your music moving forward 👍
Doesn't this defeat any teacher union argument for higher pay and more resources?
No because the vast majority of private schools pay the same as the public system. Take for example NSW Catholic schools (2nd biggest education provider in the state) it's wages are pegged pretty much exactly to the public system
@@themouse42 so then could the pay and resource differences within the private sector prove their argument? Some private teachers get $20000-$50000 more than their counterparts.
I guess, tbh the union argument for higher teacher pay has never had anything to do with the private sector. It's simply that there is a teacher shortage and if you want to fix it you need to incentivise more people into the profession
@@themouse42 but there are better teacher ratios in the private sector. So if Catholic schools pay the same but have better ratios then that defeats the pay = incentive theory.
Unions have a working model of education with more funding they should be using it to get there message across clearly. Unless this piece is correct and money makes no difference.
@@sheavague7058
Hang on,
Saying the private sector has better ratios doesn't imply the Catholic system has better ratios and it certainly doesn't imply that it's because of improved teacher supply
The reason as a general rule that ratios are likely to be better in a private system is that they can refuse to enrol students whereas the public system cannot (if the kid is local).
So if a private school has a teacher supply issue they could tune down their student intake for a year to maintain good ratios while still facing a teacher supply issue
If people want to pay for it, let them.
Yeah! and Govs should stop giving them more money than public schools.
Still these people ask for subsidies
Sure but it's not like they're being funded solely on the people paying for them. They're funded in part by the government when god knows they don't need to be. That money should be going back into the public school system. Maybe there wouldn't be such a divide in the quality of education if public education had more funding
@@miketran4289
They're not, did you see the graph.
14k funding for public 12k for private.
Every child should have equal funding.
@@wolfferoni
If everyone pays taxes, shouldn't their children receive the same funding no matter where they go.
Isn't that the fair option?
One school system, one supermarket, one clothing supplier, one house builder, one healthcare supplier, one car manufacturer, one political party, one, one, one!
Answer: No.
Yes they are. Saved you 15 minutes.
FOAD
They produce exceedingly worse people though, so the social benefit is arguable.
@@channelname1019 a misinformed opinion based on conjecture and bias. Possibly a little bit of jealousy.
@@nath-wp7xpPlease point out where in my one sentence I provided anything that could lead you to make that claim other than your own reactionary conjecture and bias resulting from not liking my comment.
I would want nothing to do with Catholic school.
Catholic and education is an OXYMORON 🤬
ABC shouldn't ,be lefts
whatever this freak says, I am going to think the opposite
Mocking women again. Not funny👎👎👎👎
You have one line 🤡
Right like we need advice from a man dressing up as a woman? 😱🙄😣😞😖
Yawn… 🥱
Next! "
Does that include Catholic ‘brothers’ who swan about in dresses ? Gimme a break !
anyone come from wellington secondary college?🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
🤡🌎
Non, c'est pas ça.
T'as PEUR ou T'AS pas peur.
C'est ça qui votre vie contre votre acte n'avez pas le choix qui ailles de l'avant avec ou sans ou même école à la maison sont seulement pour faire des devoirs.
(Soupir!)
30lbs dans mon sac à dos!
Beaucoup de livres et cahiers,
des crayons... Beaucoup plus qu'aujour'hui ordi,ect...
Franchement, vous autres exagéré en 2023📉 que de 1970 @ 1991📈📋📗📘📖📚📒📝!!!