10 Amazing Atari 400/800 Facts
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- Опубліковано 4 лис 2022
- In this episode of Amazing Facts I take a look at 10 tantalising titbits of trivia surrounding the original models of the Atari 8-bit computer, the 400 and 800.
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#Atari #RetroGaming #Facts - Ігри
My Atari 400 is directly responsible for my career; I spent years typing in games from magazines, then modifying those games, then porting other basic games to the atari, then programming in Action! and it meant when I hit college I was already very comfortable with advanced (for a high school student at the time) programming and debugging skills. The Atari taught me that if I want to make it, I can. I like to think my mother, who paid an arm and a leg for it at the time, knew what she was doing, but I suspect she just wanted me to be happy. Thanks mom.
1982, purchased my first computer, the 400 along with the 410 cassette and BASIC and PacMan. That was the start of my programming career.
The 800 was my first computer after seeing Ultima II. Then Star Raiders.
Several other cartridge games also but Atari Basic really made the difference.
Besides being able to copy in programs, I really became able to program myself.
I learned alot from the 800. And still want another. Although there is an app called Colleen on android that emulates it, but isn't the same.
Same here! My first computer was an Atari 800 and led to a career and lifelong passion for PC games.
Same here, Tom. When I saw Star Raiders, I knew my life would change. And it did. I left Florida for San Jose and got a job at Atari in Sunnyvale. I worked there as a game tester for 3 years until they crashed around 1991. I joined the PC world after that. Feeling abandoned, I vowed never to be abandoned again when many of my friends went over to Apple which had a similar architecture.
Lol, I sort of learned typing basic into our Atari 800. What screwed me up was by typing with just my right hand while my left marked my place on the page I never learned how to type properly and to this day I still type 1 handed.
in 1982, i added a bankswitched 64k chip to my Atari 400 and a detatched full-size full-stroke keyboard. It used a 5ft ribbon cable to the 400. I also modded my 300baud modem to wire into the guts of the rotary dial phone on the wall of my dorm room. I was the only person on an enormous university campus to have access to the school's mainframe from a dorm room. I felt quite special
Absolutely loved my 800xl, as it was my first home computer…so many great memories, and games I still go back to play to this day.
My rubbery old Spectrum could not hold back the sheer gear lust of the Atari 800.
Initial development was 1977 and released end of 1979. It was way better than anything out at that time and held its own against any 8-bit computer well in the late 80s.
Back in the 80's I had several computers at home, but a few friends of mine had Atari 600XL computers (they sould them at a discounter store). My dad was quite handy with electronics and upgraded them to 64k (remove the 6116 chips and put 6164, with a few modifications in it). The old chips were used for other friends who had Sharp MZ800 computers, and had space on the motherboard for videoram expansion to 32k,. But I fell in love with the Atari, the colours, scrolling and even the pokey sound. So I buyed the 130XE and still have it with my 1050 drive :)
The 130 XE was a great machine. I think if Atari had allowed third party software earlier, things would have been different.
None of the British home computers could really do the Atari graphics. My Dragon could not by a long way. Spectrum a little better but each sprite could only be one colour.
@@wayland7150
I had a Dragon 32 mate and that was more CPU weighted, then I had a C64 which was more graphics oriented (not surprising with that 6510 chip in it) with a great sound chip added. The 800 to me seemed to bridge the gap between the two so had sprite rendering mixed with a CPU that wasn't powered with coal.
The 1050 drive is what I got with my 800. Then the 850 interference to make a cable for a 1200 modem.
Atari really rocked as a computer at that time.
I used it for many years.
I loved my atari 800xl
So have I, and still do 🙂
I worked at the Atari home computer division from around 1979 to I think 1981. I was in security and had to roam around the buildings and interacted with a lot of the employees. I was 18 or 19 at the time and did not know a lot about computers. I can remember these computers and others when they were just working on them and was told I was required to not share anything I saw with the public. Since it was my first job I was in wonder at some of the people that worked their and their skills. I have built many PCs, Raspberry PIs and Mister DE10 to play retro games and that job was a big part of my love for computers as I grew older.
That must have been really cool!
My first computer was a Atari 400 with Star Raiders. It was great!! Loved that system
I had been wanting Atari 800 XE ever since I was 8 - after playing River Raid for 10 minutes.
It took my relatives 33 years to finally give it to me for my birthday 🤪
That was a fun game, sadly we stopped playing Atari once we got the Nintendo for Christmas. Gateway to apshi(I think that’s how it’s spelled)pitfall 2 jungle hunt, miner 2049er, and 10,000 years b.c were some other favorites
I love all computers of this era, including Commode 64 and and Apple II. But the Atari 8-bits will always be my first love.
that's Commode Door 64 ;)
We had 800s at school. In computer class there was an assignment to write a BASIC program to print a USA flag using print statements full of asterisks and equals signs. My friend and I flexed on everyone else by doing a graphical USSR flag with a red background and yellow high res hammer and sickle in the corner 😆
Hahahaha, that's a great story!!!!
Love the inclusion of the full original ads. They're so of their time
My Grandfather who worked in the silicon valley gave me a prototype Atari 800XL in the original tan 800 case but had a badge for the 800XL. Apparently it was the only one I have ever seen badged like that, If I only knew then what I know now, I would have kept that prototype for life. If you look at all 800 cases the badge is missing the XL but has room for it. All Atari 400 models in the same design had a badge that had no room for the extra XL. It was modded by my grandfather prior to me getting it and had been upgraded and came with 2 apple II external disk drives.
Wow, yeah, that would be worth a fortune now!
In the minds of most of Brazilians, it doesn't matter. Atari computer line never came into existence here, only the VCS/2600 game console. It seems like I live in a parallel world compared to what Europeans or North-Americans lived with. (Maybe some imports existed here, but I've never heard of them.) Sometimes I think it's cruel, because the Atari 400/800 really represented a step ahead for the company into expandability and functionalities, being more than a gaming company. Even with the choice of bigger or lesser memory, they weren't cheap at all, and I can see clearly why they didn't arrive here. Also, here in Brazil, there was the law of market reservation, which helped the national industries in a way, but not enough to produce a high-end line of computers like the Atari 8-bit ones. (That's why we had clones of cheaper models or MSX as a saving grace...) The possible coming of Atari 8-bit computer line is one of the biggest "what if's" of Brazilian or Latin America's computer history.
I heard the Sega master system was very popular in Brazil almost until current day. Can you comment on that?
@@jojoagogo Sega Master System was the most popular console after the Atari 2600's commercial existence. SMS was manufactured by TecToy from around 1989 to 1997 in its initial run, and, after that, until the 2010s the models based on emulation, with dozens of games, not a single new game. Master System is, definitely, the game console with the longest lifespan in Brazil and, quite possibly, in Latin America. It rivaled the clones of the NES during its original run here fiercely... And won!
I loved my 800 which I bought I think 1983. Eventually I bought the XE model. I managed to get the full tech manual for only $25 and described every chip, full schematic and OS source code.
It wasn't Atari's fault that there were compatibility problems with the later models. Atari specified using specific vectors for OS entry points but many violated that rule, jumping directly into ROM code which with the new models was moved.
But some of the new models could bank switch the ROM with RAM, so you could load the old ROM code into upper RAM thus swapping the OS code.
Four player Mule, such a cool and fun experience. It's amazing that my favorite early machines were Jay Miner machines and not Atari or Commodore: 2600, 8 bit Atari computer, Amiga and Lynx.
M.U.L.E. was my favorite game to play with my cousin
I had a 1200XL as a kid (we were in San Fransisco the year they test marketed it and my Dad got us one) Want to get one again
I had an Atari 400 back when. Dig Dug and Basic were my favorite cartridges. One bit of trivia that was missed was that the Atari 800 was used to create the graphics for the video game sequence in the movie Superman 3. Each frame of the animation was produced as a still image on the Atari 800 and the images were run together to give the animated appearance of a very advanced computer view of Superman flying through a canyon. The broad spectrum of available colors and high resolution made it ideal for the task.
*ua-cam.com/video/5XmQ3vOqUk8/v-deo.html*
I love this platform. In the early 80s I'd get PC World magazine monthly and would drool at some of the computers on offer. But I was always drawn to the 800. I finally got an 800XL in '85, along with a 1050 and 1010. The only time I've ever been to London was in the Spring of '87 to go to the Atari Show at the Novotel where I picked up a 1029 printer, which I still have ... mostly. Wife stupidly threw out the top cover some 10 years ago, although I since picked up another boxed unit for free. I have half a dozen machines in the attic. I started learning to program on my original XL and have been programming ever since. I currently work as a software developer for a FTSE100 company.
I didn't get to experience the Atari 400 until this past summer when I bought one from a seller on Ebay. I really wish that I had gotten one sooner! Since getting my example, I have created a design for a replacement keyboard that will utilize a low profile modern key switch, some 3D printed key stems, and Cherry MX keycaps. I thought that doing so would make sense for the very reason that the 400 is so common compared to the Atari 800.
in 1982 i added an external normal keyboard to my 400 using a ribbon cable. I would think you would just find the best small factor keyboard and then do a USB or PS2 converter to the ribbon cable inside the 400. Or drill hole in case, and inside case brinf the internal keyboard ribbon cable to a small external port. lots of different things to try. Please post when u finish your project
In the UK you could buy a hard key setup that replaced the membrane. I have a 400 with it installed, made typing so much better. Must dig it out from storage and share some pics.
I think this video may get a lot more views following the announcement of the Atari 400 mini :-) Keep up the awesome work!
I hope so! I was surprised at that announcement I have to say, but I was even more surprised it only has 25 games included.
I bought an Atari 800, around 1980?, on the advice of a Buddhist Book!
The Buddha's advice to the common man.
1) invest 25% of your pay in savings. ( for your family, this is Life Insurance ), in the 1600's.
2) Live off 25% of your income. ( Frugal living. No fancy chandelier in the bathroom then. )
3) Re-invest 50% of your income back into your business.
So, "business" was program, computer program development. Although I had a job, the Atari 800 brought a wealth of computer science eduction with it. From Basic, DOS, ValForth, 6502 assembly language. It was a great way to get a grounding in computers. Also, Books: Mapping the Atari. And Books by Chris Crawford. It was sheer joy.
Love this!
What a magical time it was! Loved my 400 and 800.
Never owned an atari, have a sudden urge to buy one...
I had the C64, and while my friend had the 800XL, my sister's bf (now my brother-in-law) had an 800+810. I envied that color palette, didn't notice so much the diskIO once a Fastload was added. I guess my legacy to Atari is having been an early adopter of the Amiga.
My older brother owned a 600 XL. I spent a lot of time playing Star Raiders on it.
Well done as always. Thank you for featuring my first and still favorite classic computer. I wish I'd kept all my Atari stuff from the 70's/80's, but I did manage to buy a nice clean Atari 800 a couple of year ago.
My dad baught me an Atari 800 when I was in grade 10 in winter 1980 ! It was the best thing ever. I was making my own games after a few months learning basic and assembly language. Really good machine for its time...
I have been a fan of Atari since I first bought a 2600 (originally called the Video Computer System) back in late 1980 / early 1981. But I knew that I would eventually have to progress to the next level of technology. So I bought an Atari 400 micro computer that I mostly play games on. Later on I wanted an Atari 800 micro computer, but the store manager wanted to sell to me the 400 I already had because he seemed to clear shelf space for bigger ticket items. I left that store swearing that I would never return to it, then I went to a different store and bought the Atari 800XL instead.
The 800 was my first computer after seeing Ultima II. Star Raiders and other cartridge games were also great.
The biggest was Atari Basic. Besides being able to type in programs, I really learned to program. Compute Books helped.
Also there is an app called Colleen as an emulator but is not like having the real computer. I miss it and want another system.
I started with a Commodore Pet and an Apple 2 in school, but Atari is the best.
Like I'd said, Ultima II sold me on Atari.
But learned that it was a real computer and that the graphics, sound and 4 port joysticks are part of makes it so great.
Programming in basic was also great. Mostly using the manual that came with the Atari Basic cartridge, Your Atari Computer, Atari Faster and Better and the Computes books, Mapping the Atari, Atari Basic and the rest of them.
Here in the UK, 1982/83, I was looking for a home computer, my first, I noticed that the Atari's were the same price as the BBC Micro models which must have hurt sales. Didn't get one until they were discounted in Dixons some years later, an XL model. I had a lot of fun with that machine, hunting software for it was a challenge, but there was fun in that hunt.
The Atari 400/800 were more powerful than the BBC though, so I would have picked them everytime.
@@TheLairdsLair True, but who held to purse strings? Usually the parents, and 'Aunty Beeb' had sway with them, especially when all schools started to get them, so the 'logical' thing was to get the same. They would have bought the BBC. After all, back then, £299 was the best part of a months wages for most people. It is interesting that later on, most people I knew who had electrons had it as a family 2nd computer just for school work because BBC basic was close enough for school work on both machines. I still wanted an Atari though, because, well, Star Raiders.
Good point, when we got a computer I was told to pick the best one, as I was the computer whizz. I chose the Spectrum +2, because that's what all my friends had, but my dad had seen the Atari XE running in Toys R Us and thought that was the better option. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Again I've loved Atari basic, although it had some differences from standard basic. In college I was able to use it, explaining the difference. Mainly matrices that Atari used strings.
After using Atari for years, I moved on and Pascal became my favorite language.
Every time you make a video, I end up buying the hardware! Thanks to you, I've got an 800 XL. 😁 Considering the gap between the Atari 8 bits and the C64 in terms of development, it's a testament to former's hardware as to how close it can come in competing with the C64 but of course the latter is superior. The Tramiel's screwed Epyx but got their karma several times through the years. Great stuff as always. Any chance you'll do a video about the current homebrew games?
I might do at some point. On my old channel I did a series called Homebrew Heroes, looking at homebrew on different platforms, so I might bring that back in a new format.
I had the 400 and then got the 1200XL (actually still have it) - used it through high school to plot out calculus equations. Favorite game was the Star Trek video game port from Sega. Need to plug that baby back in...
I had both the Atari 400 and the 800. I used the 400 for game play the nic3 thing is the 400 had an external keyboard that you could put on it which was nice. I used the 800 for much of my college work that I had to do.both were nice little computers, and yes the graphics were for the time about as good as it could be. There were also a good many peripherals that were available that made them even more versatile and usable. These were some nice systems the Atari 1600 was also a nice computer and was also very useful for running a small business.
I find it crazy how the 2020 VCS's name scheme is the same as the original, except it's talking about literally a MILLION times the RAM.
Wow, it's amazing that so many people affected by this iconic system like I was. I too got a 400 as a kid and went on to a career in video game development then later general software development. I also have found it fascinating throughout the years how much of a divide there was between this and the commodore computers and because of this division, some have no idea the Atari computers even exist. Maybe that's just my perception but I was deeply versed in Atari tech and woefully ignorant of the competition. ;) I will say that I do give props to the Pet II which I got to play on at a friends house before all of this. I see the note about the mom and I know it was a lot for my parents and for me as a kid, they nailed it!...it was formative to say the least.
Star Raiders and 4 player Asteroids!
It was a game machine. We had defender Pac-Man donkey Kong and shamus to start. And star raiders
Thank you for such a detailed and technical explanation of the history of home Atari computers, which I feel is missed by most on how advanced these machines really were. They were ahead of their time, especially compared to the IBM PCs of time. Really brought me back to how much fun I had, programming and playing video games on it. You have a new subscriber.
Glad you enjoyed it! Welcome to the Lair!
The only thing I thought to add was that even though Atari removed two joystick ports in later models, Atari continued to use the internal registers in the operating system, repurposing them. This began with the 1200XL. Though, I forget exactly how they were used in that model. I think they were to control the console lights(?) I just know that in the 130XE, which had 128K of memory, at least one of the former joystick port registers was used as the bank selector for the expanded RAM. The extra memory was most often used as a RAMdisk, an emulated disk drive in memory. This was easy to set up with the disk operating system that came with the 1050 disk drive, DOS 2.5.
Though, the extended memory could be used for anything (in lieu of a RAMdisk), it was rare for other applications to use it, sticking to the lower 64K of memory that didn't require bank switching. I assume this owed to the fact that the 130XE wasn't that popular, since by the time it came out (1985), most computer buyers had moved on to 16-bit systems, like the Atari ST, or a PC.
There were RAM expanders available for the XL line that plugged into an expansion slot in the back of the machine. The software technique for accessing the expanded RAM that the XL used continues to be used in modern Atari 8-bit RAM upgrades.
Since the 130XE was announced in 1985 as was the ST line, I doubt the ST ate into 8-bit sales. There was a 520ST kit for $999 iirc (was it mono with SM124 or color with SC1224?; either way an SF354 floppy drive was included) and 5 years earlier that’d be an original 800 with zilch. But the 130XE sold for under $200 as I recall (and I think some old magazines have ads from mail order stores that back this up) and your tv would suffice for a display. Point is, different customer at different price point.
I got my 809XL for Christmas 1984. Even IF the 520ST was around (or even announced) it just wasn’t happening. Got the 1050 disk drive just over a year later. Then a dot matrix printer. I had all I needed to make the excuse that it was for education. And I did do papers on it. But then there were the many games. Games that were not on the 68000 computers. The ST was a “this’ll be nice someday”. But I was enjoying my 8bit and milking it for all I could.
And PC-DOS/MS-DOS were an an tire different cosmos. Big bucks. CGA has decent resolution but you had to love cyan and magenta 😁. I had no use of spreadsheets nor databases. PCs were for people who looked and acted like “Lumbergh” from Office Space.
I added an Indus GT, XF551, XM301, SX212, and 130XE to my collection before buying a used Amiga 1000 in October 1988. And it was one of those modems that connected me to one of those online services where I read about the history of Amiga and Jay Minor. That made me want to make Amiga my next system. And by then I was in high school so I could afford Amiga. Well, used anyway.
The 8 bit systems were mature by the mid 80s and the prices really came down (except for Apple // family imagine that) so a first time buyer would do well to start off that way. And look at how many C64s sold by 84-85. It took off. A lot of those only played games. But I did word processing and learned basic and assembly. I could wait for the Amiga to cheapen up and I’ll bet the price points of the A500 and A2000 helped keep the used A1000 within reach of people like me. Feel bad for the sellers ‘tho.
Nice. A big screwup with Atari was the 800 XL production cost was only $6 more than the 600XL. In my opinion the 600 XL should have been 64K and have included the 800XL video connector (not crippled), and the 800XL should have been an 80 column machine with faster CPU, and maybe dual Pokeys. The 800LX production cost was about $32, so Atari had massive room for improvement and profit on it.
I'm not sure it was $32 for the 800XL. I know the keyboard was $8 in '83. The bill of materials have been released iirc. The CPU was $5 iirc on the BOM. All that stuff, then add packaging, shipping and distribution, returns/repairs/support, marketing, etc..
Dual pokeys would have been so easy and very successful.
Great video
Thanks again Laird's Lair for another A8 vid!! Enjoyed it and learned a few things.
A few comments I have, please.
3:40 The ratio is claimed to be 2:1 for 400 to 800 sales. Atari did not expect such a close ratio of strong sales for the 800. Since the 400 was much cheaper it was always presumed the 400 would outsell but a higher ratio was expected. Word of mouth and community sentiment was strong for the 800 due to the bad membrane keyboard and limited RAM of the 400. People were willing to pay more in order to get more. Many 400 users upgraded, too.
AFAIK, development was initially for a 2600 console replacement but that was quickly transitioned to a full computer system in order to compete with Apple's new computer by ex Atari employee(s) including Steve Jobs.
Early on, Atari mis-allocated software development to business applications. That included the failed 815 dual disk drives, etc. It was a poor decision by suits in the company because the initial 48K limit of the platform was not sufficient for business software. Easy mistake to make since it was a new industry that few people understood.
Even though the platform wasn't improved from a technical perspective (as you said here) like faster graphics or better sound, it did improve with updated DOS', 810 drive improvements and many other peripherals and continuously cost reduced models until the later 1980's. These were necessary to stay competitive. There were improvements but not as much as could have been easily implemented like a 2nd pokey, etc. An XL +64K and even +128K RAM expansion could have sold well. Warner's upgrades to the line were not well conceived, like the mandatory built-in 300b modem instead of an optional internal modem slot.
I did mention that it was originally a replacement for the 2600 near the beginning. I definitely agree with you about the upgrades, but I didn't want to get too side tracked into stuff like that here, as I was trying to keep purely about the 400/800 - the XL and XE are stories for another day!
Designed by jay miner, designer of the Amiga
The 400 got me into the emerging computer scene all those years ago with a copy of basic to plug in and that was it all my pocket money went on games and magazines, spent an endless amount of time bashing that membrane keyboard typing games in out of the magazines with sore fingers to boot and then after spending all that time typing it all out on the last carriage return of the last line of code typing run and then watch the poxy thing crash and lockup as you put a comma instead of a full stop in one of the lines of code somewhere....
And then a little program called typo come out that produced a unique two digit code for each line of code entered and if the code didn't match you knew you made a mistake somewhere, Then you'd type run after entering all that code and....
It bloody crashed again only to find out in the next issue of the magazine there was an error in the code that got printed, I still remember it today funny enough that was a lot of mental trauma back then 😂
I've also pre-ordered the 400 mini that's been announced to go along with the rest of the collection of minis in my games room
Brilliant to watch this. I still have my old Atari 400 and loads of carriages etc, but sadly no way (that I know of) of connecting it to my modern tv here in the UK. I know there was the updated Atari VCS but not sure that included Gorf, which was always one of my favourites.
If it has an RGB/Monitor port then you can get an RGB scart cable to connect to a modern TV.
The Atari 800 was my first computer
11:41 James Morgan was a fool
Star Raiders and Star Raiders II were absolutely my favorite games on my dad's 800 & later 800XL.
I don't think I heard you mention it, but Star Raiders II is actually the game used in the movie The Last Starfighter--and the game itself was going to be called the same thing when it was released for the XE series of home computers/consoles. But there were some legal disagreements, and it ended up being rename Star Raiders II instead (since that was the game it was based on, anyway).
Mostly correct, Atari dropped The Last Starfighter name because the film bombed and they didn't want to pay the huge licensing fee and subsequent royalties. So they cancelled the arcade version completely and renamed the home versions Solaris and Star Raiders II respectively.
Very nice
Gr8 video m8
its been a couple years of watching this channel and I still don't know what the intro is actually saying ("welcome something...."), but i still love the intro and the tune and graphic are amazing.
Welcome STUN Runner, from the Atari Lynx port of the arcade game.
Ha ha, I always wondered that too.
@@TheLairdsLair oh ok! I always heard welcome something lover hahha
I preferred the Atari 800 cause it had an actual keyboard. The 400 was hard to type on, let alone game on.
I bought the Atari 800XL pack with cassette deck at £129 from somewhere possibly Dixons. A great computer but the cassette deck was terribly slow and unreliable. It only used one channel of a stereo cassette head so that you could have a speech or music sound channel at the same time. I seemed to be always waiting for games to load via cassette where as something like the Spectrum or C64 were much, much faster. When I got a disc drive the difference was amazing. A recent trip up into my mother's loft showed I have an old Atari 800 disc drive up there. Not sure what else is up there.
I had a copy of the hardware manual and firmware listing and going through the code I discovered there was a bug in the Atari's firmware which made loading from cassette unreliable, one of the custom chips wasn't reset at boot, nor system reset, and as I recall cassette loading on our atari 400 became more unreliable if it had been switch on a few hours. The correct procedure was documented in the hardware manual, which if I recall correctly, required setting the bits in one of the registers to write mode by writing to its control register, writing zeros to that register then writing to its control register again, which could be done with three pokes in basic. One of the copy protection methods used on a few tapes also made them unreliable, I ended up copying some to remove the protection just so it would load reliably.
I also actually wrote my own cassette software and more efficient protocol to try to speed it up, as I recall it was interrupt based so could run in the background, but only got it to record at 1407 baud reliably, I think the default was 600, I did once manage to make a much faster test recording that loaded significantly quicker and extremely reliably, I think it might have been by slowing a drive down and making a tape to tape copy, but got side tracked into writing a game cheat/game memory backup and restore program that made use of the xl's extra memory when my brother got the 800xl and floppy drive, and annoyingly couldn't remember the parameters or exact method I'd used or reproduce anything as fast.
Only thing missing from this video is the Atari XEGS system...
That's because the XEGS isn't a 400 or 800 and has a video of its own!
ua-cam.com/video/QtrHcaTUKUg/v-deo.html
Another awesome video! Yours is surely the definitive video covering the marvelous 400/800 Atari8 era (and some great stuff beyond!)
Late-70s PCs like the Commodore PET and Atari 800 had a sweet sci-fi look to them. While the XE looked the most trendy (not in a bad way) and the XL looked the most formal, there's something about the original designs that is truly unique-in-a-good-way.
It's a shame the 800's right side cartridge slot was barely used. I recall 3 cartridges were made but I don't remember all the details, apart that one that I think had an 80 column mode and one of the others, Monkey Wrench, had expanded BASIC commands.
As an owner of two 1200XLs, your info made me cry. 😅
I started out with a 600XL but did a mail-in trade-in to an 800XL. This had to have been in 1984, maybe 85.
Loved MULE. Great game, ahead of its time.
Some post-Warner Atari decisions baffled me, while others were great. Their worst was repackaging old titles and rarely doing anything new. The XE looked wonderful but lacked significant hardware updates, which the abandoned XL lines had begun to address. So much missed potential, but by 1995 the 16/32-bit era was taking off so it's hard to blame them. Heck, even Apple put out the 2GS, which was superior to the Mac in some ways but killed it off to encourage Mac purchases instead...
The worst thing was that Atari designed the Super XE as well as the XEM, but never released either sadly. Both would have made welcome additions to the range. In fact the Super XE has an awful lot in common with the Apple IIGS actually, being based on the same CPU with the 6502 backwards compatibility.
It would be nice for ATARI to port ATARI BASIC and ATARI Games to Android as an App... and save files to .WAV audio files.
It would be fun to type in some programs from magazines again...
Oh how I hated the 400. I was not a touch typist and those flat membrane keys were awful.
at 7:21, I see Xevious gameplay but the cartridge art for Star Raiders is in foreground! confusinated... :)
I'm not really sure why you're confused. The gameplay footage runs in the background through the whole video and doesn't represent what I am talking about (as it isn't a video about games!) but the images that pop up on the screen do.
@@TheLairdsLair Fair enough. It just caught me off guard as what I was seeing game-wise didn't match what I was seeing title-wise. Once I got used to the editing format, it became less distracting. Anyways, great vid and look forward to seeing more!
M.U.L.E was my favorite
I understood GTIA was available early for the 400/800 (maybe not correct), but Atari wanted to use up the inventory of CTIA that they already manufactured, so GTIA was not installed in the factory machines until they ran out of the CTIA.
Also, I heard that the "G"TIA meant "George's"TIA after a designer responsible for the additional color processing features. (again, maybe urban myth).
I liked the look of both the almost 'ugly' 400 and the 'IBM Selectric' 800 (I never realised that is what they based it on until recently) more so than the XL's. There was also not really a reason to buy the 800 with every 400 I knew upgraded to 48k, plus the relatively easy composite mod done too. It was just a pity they made access to the 400's ram slot such a pain -they really didn't want people getting into them.
Depends if you could put up with that horrendous keyboard!
12:50
What game is this?
Is this related to caverns of mars? A sequel?
That is the excellent Wyzle, a totally unrelated game.
www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-wyzle_5872.html
@@TheLairdsLair thanks
Was the atari xe indeed not also based on the same technology of the atari 400 & 800? In such case that was a clever way to keep it alive along with it’s backwards compatibility.
Correct
I don't think the statement about software makers writing primarily for the lower spec 16K 400 is correct - at least over the life of the A8. This may be true of cartridge titles where RAM is mostly irrelevant, but almost all disk software (most A8 software) required more than 16K.
Also, while the basic OS was in ROM, Atari DOS was booted from disk.
If you are looking at the whole life of the Atari 8-bit range then yes, most games require 48k or more usually. But this video is focused strictly on the 400/800, before the XL and XE range came along, and in that time most software houses aimed at 16k.
Rescue on fractalas.
Why is the XE left out? Can we see them? I had a 130xe with a Ram disk! Fast booting ever!!
Look at the links in the description . . . . .
Where was it said (by anyone reputable) that Jay Miner and team didn't want to work with Jack Tramiel (which was a moot point anyway) on the Amiga. According to timeline the Atari contract for the Amiga chipset (for completion within one year) was signed September 1983 while Atari was owned by Warner. The project it was to go into was later canceled by Atari (still owned by Warner) By the time the chipset was supposed to be finished and handed over to Atari, It wasn't actually finished anyway. Atari at that point had shutdown almost every project that was ongoing, was bought by Jack Tramiel (July 1984) and was developing the ST.
Amiga/Commodore paid the money that was given to complete the chipset back, in September 1984 (one year after contract was signed) This was an option in the contract. From my understanding when the money was returned there was no problem (after all the chips weren't finished, the Atari project was dead and Atari desperately needed money) it was only after it was found that Commodore had bought Amiga (remember that Commodore gave the money to Amiga to pay back Atari before they had even completed buying Amiga) that Atari sued (can anyone say cash grab)
Joe Decuir has definitely said it and Dave Needle did too years ago when I interviewed him. I think a couple more too, I'd have to dig up all the interviews I've done over the years. I think it's been discussed in a couple of the Amiga documentaries too.
The 2600 was an 8bit machine as well.
No it wasn't
Yes it was, it has an 8-bit 6507 CPU.
@@SupremeNerd "Supreme Nerd" huh... 😏
@@TheLairdsLair i coulda sworn it was 4 bit and the 5200 was 8 bit
There are no consoles smaller than 8-bit.
Upvote 777,
Nice
I was fortunate enough to download the PS4 version of Atari 50: The Anniversary Celebration early from the UK PSN Store and it's great to see four Atari 800 classics included. They are Caverns of Mars, Food Fight, Miner 2049er and my personal favourite Bounty Bob Strikes Back! One of my friends from school had an Atari 800 and even though I had the C64, I really wanted an Atari home micro computer more but could never afford one. Great video and thanks for sharing :-)
Food Fight wasn't released for the Atari 800, only the 7800 and the XEGS, so I assume it's one of those versions (it's 7800 on Evercade). The Atari 8-bit version of Millipede is on there too, although they state it as Atari 5200 when no 5200 port was ever released.
@@TheLairdsLair Interesting. Compared it to a video of the XEGS version and on second look it must be that version they're calling the Atari 800 version. I guess they figured it'd be a bit messy having a category just for one XEGS game :-)
The XEGS version is a port from the 7800 but isn't as good as it has less colours and isn't as smooth. It won't work on an 800 as it needs 64k RAM.
They really should have added more XEGS games, there were plenty they could have included. Same for the Atari 800 for that matter.
@@TheLairdsLair Agreed but it is a great collection overall :-)
Where was the 130XE coverage?. The atari version of bruce lee was the best. Even better than the C64. I also have fond memories of electroglide and submarine commmander. The Atari 8-bit and C64 were close cousins with similar capabilities. I remember the Home computer of the year 1984 sticker on the 800XL box. However the manual that came in the box was sparse and useless.
This video is only about the original models, the 400 and 800, I have done a video all about the 130XE before and one about the whole XE range - they are both linked in the description.
The chipset for the 400&800 series computers really was radically advanced for its time. You don't mention the independent, programmable processor running the video hardware for example (predecessor to the Amiga's - simplified - Copper, and also spiritual ancestor to the programmable and very flexible video chip in the Atari Jaguar, which was designed independently by a couple UK fellas as I recall and did not involve Jay Miner or his team.)
Also, the serial I/O bus with its autoconfiguring devices was way way ahead of its time. Even today USB can't do what SIO did on the Atari, by carrying driver software directly on the peripherals themselves which downloads when connected. This was super smart, radical stuff.
Sound wasn't so great perhaps, probably the system's weakest link. But the rest was only hampered by Atari's own flailing and incompetence (much like with Commodore's mishandling of the Amiga...)
Never had one of these, but it sure was a well designed system. As a fan of retro hardware, I appreciate this stuff a lot. :)
I did mention the graphics chip in my part about the custom chips, just not in great detail. And I don't think the sound was weak, it was way ahead of anything else at that time!
Another computer I didn’t own. It seemed to be an interesting line of computers. I didn’t know anybody who owned one. I did own a 2600 and later a 7800; both of which I enjoyed greatly.
What's the game at 11:36?
Caverns of Mars - a stone cold classic!
Came back to watch again, Figured I would make a comment this time...
Comment.
Home computers where better at games than their console counterpatys all their llifepan, because the hardware was better, especially regarding sound and RAM, and there was a muc broader choice of game genres, not only superficial action games, which was a rarity on consoles (and still is..)
I wouldn't say that. The Atari 2600 was certainly better at playing games than any computer around in 1977 and I think the Mega Drive and later Super Nintendo were better games machines than the main computers of the era too.
Hmmm. I can’t say what the game landscape looked like for Apple ][ in 1977, but given 48k and Disk ][ and games on floppy from early 80s onward, that platform was better than the VCS.
I would stay that home computers of the 1980s exceeded the consoles. Unless you wanted to play Super Mario Bros or Zelda. The NES was a leap for 8bit consoles. Looking at Turbo Gfx 16, my memory says “just get an ST or Amiga and you can also do so much more with them”.
By the early 1990s I was hardly playing games except when someone else on college campus was. I played Bomberman on a Famicon (not NES) that a friend with Japanese family roots had. But my computer time was for Pascal and C++. And this new thing called a “web browser”. After graduating I did buy Activision’s Shanghai. That was game playing for me. I’d changed. So I honestly can’t comment on consoles vs computers. Play station had 3D then N64 came out and it did 3D. Did any such games exist for personal computers? And were they as good? I just don’t know.
Needs more Lucasfilm intro sound turned up to 11 every 10 seconds followed by whispers.
Funny that over 5000 people have watched it and you're the only one to complain . . . .
@@TheLairdsLair That must mean it's great!
@@TheLairdsLair Just checked the replies, there are other people who were annoyed by it as well. The content is fine, its just the heavy accent mumbling with THX sound tests in between make it hard to listen to.
Heavy accent? Really? I am from the home counties, I'd argue I don't even have an accent as I speak the King's English, as it would be taught to a foreigner. What some also used to call "BBC English".
I think it's pretty obvious now that you are just trolling,
And nope, just checked again, not one person moaning that I whisper or about the volume. Just one person saying they don't like the intro sounds, which isn't the same.
@@TheLairdsLair Strawman argument. Let's focus on the actual topic if you'd care to. The lucasfilm noise was annoying and I don't think I'm the only one who thought so.
Nice bit of Tangerine Dream at 18:12 - is that on the original material?
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean?
@@TheLairdsLair The music that appears in the background at that mark sounds like it's from the Tangram album by Tangerine Dream. I'm just checking with you that it's not something you've added as it's your favourite TD album, but that it's something that was originally there in the footage.
I know who Tangerine Dream are, but what confused me is that there is no music at that timestamp, just sound effects to River Raid!
@@TheLairdsLair 19:12 - I got the time wrong initially.
Ah ok, that's 100% the original content!
CTIA / GTIA is pronounced by each letter.
See Tee Eye Ayyy
Gee Tee Eye Ayyy
Also the keyboard click channel is a 5th audio channel!
I've interviewed multiple people who worked at Atari and they all pronounced it the same as me. But you carry on if that's what you prefer.
Also if it's TEE EYE AYYY and not Tia, then why did they call the Atari 7800 graphics chip the Maria?
I've pronounced it as individual letters since I was a kid and after 35+ years of doing so I'm unlikely to change my ways any time soon! In countless conversations with Atari users over the decades I don't think I've actually *ever* heard it pronounced as "rhymes with beer" so even if that's "correct" it feels a bit like a GIF moment: if people see it written down and aren't given a pronunciation guide then they're going to make their own choice regardless of what the creator insists it should be.
In 2019 the Vintage Computer Festival East celebrated the 40th anniversary of the Atari 8bits and Joe Decuir spoke there. I’ll have to see if he mentioned the chips. But in my talking with all of the presenters and other folks I never heard the chips mentioned in any way other than letter by letter. I’d’ve had the same reaction as I did to this video.
Maybe when an initialism makes a word or something vaguely pronounceable? I’ve always been of the T-I-A mindset but I never knew about it until after learning about the details of my 800XL back in the day. Antic and POKEY seemed like words G-T-I-A not so much. SID and VIC and TED, yes.
At least Agnus, Paula, Denise, and Copper were obvious. Or were they … ? 👹J/K
P. S. GIF was a picture you could make a sandwich with. Too bad there wasn’t a coprocessor or file format called JELLY.
As I said above, it's Tia for me, because otherwise it makes no sense when it comes to the Atari 7800. You wouldn't say T.I.A. Maria would you? You'd say Tia Maria, and the Maria chip was named that for that exact reason!
👍👍👍❤❤❤/|\
Mira que eran malos
Thanks for posting the interesting video. Atari made a big mistake when they decided to sell computers. The first machine is important because it forms a base of users. The larger the base the more software, peripherals and accessories can be sold. Atari started off by splitting the potential market into two parts. The more affordable 400's membrane keyboard made it hard to use as a computer and the expensive 800 cost too much for an introductory machine. This limited the total number of both machines sold and the size of the installed base. If they had cancelled the 800 and only offered one affordable machine similar to a 400 with decent keyboard and analogue joysticks it might have become the best selling machine of the day. By the time they corrected their mistakes most people that wanted a computer already had already purchased a different brand. It is too bad Atari wasn't more sucessful but it too late to do anything about it now. Today we can only dream about what might have been.
Yeah, that's a pretty good point actually. I think what Sinclair did in the UK was the best way forward - they had two low price machines that were virtually identical except for the amount of RAM (16k and 48k respectively) and then introduced more premium/advanced models later on that retained compatibility.
One mistake I always felt Atari made was not having consistent naming, back then nobody knew what to refer to the range as. This is perfectly proved by third party software in particular - I have one game that has Atari 800/130XE, it's like they were so confused they just took the first machine and last machine and hoped for the best.
I think a smart move would have been to make the 400 wide enough to take an 800 keyboard and offer an upgrade keyboard kit for the 400, so you could unscrew the plastic cover, throw the membrane keyboard away and plug a similar keyboard to the 800 in its place. There were third party keyboard replacements available, but I recall them being expensive and compromised to fit the space.
Kinda Sounds Like 2d
You need to do more historic research. Some of our information is actually incorrect. I'm not going to tell you what's wrong.. because I'm not your script writer.
"our information"?????? I'm glad you're not my scriptwriter!
I look forward to your definitive video on the subject!
Is it me or is the 400/800 the ugliest atari babies ever
It's just you!
I like your videos but do not care for the sounds between segments. 9:00 is an example.
Appropriate name.
Don't watch his channel then
Heathen! That Lucasfilm Games sound is irrevocably etched into my brain, and fills me with warm feelings; it's the 8-bit equivalent of that sweeping THX sound at the cinema, and announced that you were about to play an *awesome* game. Here it is in its full glory: ua-cam.com/video/tTF8e2-fA7Y/v-deo.html
@@elbiggus I love the sound too. I had Ball Blazer and Rescue on Fractalus! Did I have The Eidolon or play it on my cousins computer (I know they had it because that’s where I first learned of it).
BUT - and this is the important part - the Lucasfilm Games sound played at the same volume as anything else I was doing/playing. No need to adjust the volume.