Clans or Inner Sphere? Which is better? The Mech Lab.
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Hello Mechwarriors! In today's video we discuss whether the Clans or Inner Sphere is the better faction to play in a Battle Value balanced game. I have a many points to go over, this is a very nuanced topic. Ultimately, both have their strengths, but which faction is the best?!
#battlemechs #mechwarrior #battletech #scifi #mech #megamek
In my experience IS is much easier due to numbers beating out Clans and a vast majority of Official Maps available limiting how clans can keep distance. Megamek is definitely different, but IRL Tabletop rarely do I see anyone want to break out more than 2 maps, basically boxing in clans and forcing many mechs into shittier ranges.
@@AlexDenton0451 Ya this is what I meant. You can box them in with your battle line and force a brawl. Tbh u shouldnt be playing without objectives anyways, and that usually forces the clans to get in close anyways.
IS having way more units definitely helps. Making a bad mistake isnt so bad when you can still roll over them with superior numbers after losing that mech.
@@TheManyVoicesVA The big factor that IMO makes clans better is Elementals. For front line that is. Second Line mechs IMO are also better because better designs strait up exist, MAD-IIC, WMH-IIC, Stone Rhino, Supernova, RFL-IIC, Vapor Eagle, Ect. My best clan lists are second line not because they are cheaper or worse. Its because they straight up have better guns, plus I can mix in Vehicles, Like the Kokou or Pike C
@@HammerFell- Hell ya. The Vapor Eagle is ridiculously expensive for a medium mech tho lmao. The Rifleman-IIC is a prime example of what ur talking about tho. Literally "pulse lasers: the mech."
@@TheManyVoicesVA sure, but it also can be run as a 4-4 and be fine, its JJ+Pulse+RC, its the second best medium in the game
@@HammerFell- wait what is the best medium then? Lol
Glad i found your channel, its nice to see someone doing videos on the nitty-gritty of Classic BT. Everyone seems to be leaning into Alpha Strike.
@@sedevri864 Alpha Strike is cool, but its much less tactical, and not as cool as Btech IMO. Its even lighter on rules than 40K or Bolt Action. Very much a beer and pretzels game, rather than a slightly more simulationist game like Classic.
Also welcome! Love to have more mechwarriors joining the crew!
I’m genuinely curious where you’re finding Alpha Strike content. I used to be primarily an Alpha Strike player and I thought the exact opposite. The only Alpha Strike channel that comes to mind is The Armed Painter.
@@thesalamanderking3475 check out Death From Above Wargaming! They have alot of content for both games.
@@thesalamanderking3475 Wolfnet also
@@TheManyVoicesVA Ya, AS just doesn't quite feel like BT. I love the crunch of Classic and some of the all the weird shit that can happen.
Sounds like someone needs to be introduced to clan second line units, clan vehicles, battle armor, and especially protomechs.
These allow clanners to bring more units and get closer to matching I.S. players.
Oh I'm well aware of that lol. Clan tank lists are super nasty. It's just that you don't see them often due to theme. Outside of Hell's Horses, most clans don't traditionally bring vehicles. Battle armor is another thing tho. 3-4 units of BA is usually a great idea for cheap bulk.
Clans without battle armor riding their mechs are basically neutered imo. Having an Elemental squad that can just jump off of your battlemech like a hoard of angry bees is an absolute game changer, especially since spherers want to melee you all the time.
The tonnage difference is scary but yeah it's absolutely a matter of terrain who wins. They're actually pretty remarkably balanced given how many options there are in the game tbh.
Also Rifleman IIC is the no fun allowed mech. I'll fight God in that mech lol
I mollywop when I play clans, one of the tricks is you use elementals and maneuver to create space. And you do feel your one unlucky gauss shot from losing the whole game sometimes.
@@johntrotter7372 lmao yaaa thats the thing about expensive units. You get a TAC and lose it, it's reeeeally bad.
IS has the advantage of just way more variety of stuff they can field, where clans have fewer mechs, fewer budget mechs specifically, and fewer mechs with good variety since an omni with a glaring flaw will have that flaw in all configs.
@@Funkin_Disher That's a good point. The Hellbringer will always be a crappy glass cannon lol. I played Clan Sea Fox recently in a tournament and scoured their MUL for a decent cheap mech. I ended up with the Gladiator! The Inner Sphere one! 4/6/6 with a snub, MML and some lasers. A great design tbh, and reasonably priced. Which I needed in my force cuz of a stubborn need to take a 3/4 Gargoyle J lol.
There was a very clearly defined balance between IS and Clan mechs when Clans were introduced by FASA for the 3050 setting. Unfortunately, that balance no longer exists by the Dark Age era as everything became muddy after the clans got super popular and Wizkidz then Catalyst decided "know what, clan lights and assaults won't suck now".
@@foxdavion6865 idk what u mean by "they won't suck now." Clan light and assault mechs were always good lol
This is great content.
Keep it up, congradulations on 1k.
Though for unga bunga kitchen table play always pick the mech you think looks the coolest.
@@EdmondHiggins Thank you so much! I am partial to the Bushwacker and the Crab. I love shoulder mounted weapons and asymmetry. And the Crab is simple pleasing to the eye lol.
The Starslayer is also really funny. "Let's just take 2 big cannons on one side!" Awesome.
When considering battle value mobility is very expensive. The higher the armor tons and the faster it moves (and if it jumps) really effects the final cost. Then you have clan weapons which are more expensive and mechs like the Timber Wolf can fit a lot of them. Most clan second line mechs are less points than the omni mechs just because they aren't loaded with expensive tech.
@@jamesc.7216 in relation to its value, mobility is actually fairly costed or under costed. It does cost BV but TMM and positioning are very strong.
Agreed tho Clan mechs have the tonnage of XL engines, without the discount for dying to a lost torso. Their weapons have higher damage and longer range, so they are more expensive. No min range on the LRMs. Everything costs less tonnage. All mechs have ferro fibrous and endosteel. So they are really expensive overall.
@@TheManyVoicesVA You're right. I was referring to the battle value of Clan Omni Mechs being high because they have compounding layers of additional cost. Clan XL engines reduce BV by 25% but are so light I can fit more equipment most of which ranges from +20% to over double (pulse lasers) the value of IS equipment. Most of them can afford good heat sinks so no discount on weapons. Then because they move faster a Clan Omni Mech is at least an additional 10% more (most are around 20%).
I'm relatively new to table top and I came across this by trying to make an IS equivalent to the Summoner. I went over the BV calculations to see why it was so much more expensive. I couldn't even get close to the capabilities of the Summoner and I feel that the Summoner isn't a min maxed unit.
The Timber Wolf is like a Stalker that decided to loose weight by mixing steroids with PCP. The BV difference is huge (1559 Stalker vs 2737 Timber Wolf).
I think the Clans have two small advantages, one of which they have to play into. And that is that the Clan ER PPC is a headcapper for that golden shot that just instantly changes a battle.
I recently did a game on MegaMek and had only 3% chance to hit with my JagerMech JM6-DGr (The one with twin Gauss Rifles) and took it because it has so much ammo, and got a lucky head hit roll on an enemy Emperor and just took it out of the fight instantly.
If you got a Clan ER-PPC and you got nothing better to shoot at than a 3% at an enemy Mech. Well you got unlimited ammo, so may as well take the shot.
I know a lot of players swear by the Clan Large Pulse Laser due to its long range and accuracy offering reliable damage on the enemy. But Battletech is a game of luck, so you should think about what is the fastest way to remove an enemy mech from the battlefield, not just the most reliable.
The other advantage the Clans have over the inner sphere in the invasion era at least is that many of their Mechs, and all their omni mechs, come equipped with CASE. And with their XL-Engines only taking up two side torso crits. Means that a golden BB on any explosive ammo they may be carrying is not as devastating as it is for an inner sphere mech.
Outside of the Clan Invasion era, none of it no longer applies of course. Because the IS gets basically all the same toys the Clans due and more.
@@Taurevanime These are good points. CASE and Clan XLs are both incredibly good. Not just for BV games but also for campaigns. Clan mechs are *really* hard to kill if they stack on the armor, since they tend to have great maneuverability.
As for head cappers I tend to prefer Gauss, its a bit cheaper and most mechs carry 2 tons of ammo which is plenty for most fights.
They have many advantages tho. Clan LPLs as u say are amazing. Elementals and Salamanders are both fantastic battle armor. Overall durability and mobility of each unit is excellent typically.
@@TheManyVoicesVAI'm in an AToW campaign set during the clan invasion... ended up salvaging a Shadow Cat Prime. In the first time out got a through-armor on a Timberwolf's ammo, blew a torso, it withdrew. Second time out, first shot head capped a Hunchie IIC. Gauss is amazing.
@@BigSeth1090 Love a gauss! Slap some dudes at range 15 and just troll their range 15 weapons lol.
@@TheManyVoicesVA as someone whose first TT experience in BattleTech is this campaign... yeah, I'm in love.
@@BigSeth1090 Lol the classic headcapper is really something special. U should play a game with improved heavy gauss. It is pretty disgustingly powerful lol.(especially on a tank that doesnt care about knockdown checks.
Numbers only work if you can weather the fire from the better Clan mechs. Something like a Vixen is easily worth the 3-4 IS lights and can probably match the 2 mediums that match it's BV. The average Blood Asp is also probably winning the exchange as well.
@@135forte Id challenge both of those lol. Firstly the Vixen is the cost of about 2 good light mechs, say a Venom and Mongoose. I think id take on that 1 light with those 2 lights and win tbh. 2 units can outflank a single one usually... even if it is a much better mech than either of them.
The Blood Asp is interesting... its expensive. It costs as much as solid heavies. I think I could take it on with a wolverine and a grasshopper, which is about the same BV.
When you are going for Miserable Metal Mountain, it is a numbers game. You bring 1.5-2 times the number of mechs as the clans. They have to chew through piles of armor. Sure the clanners can focus fire and kill 1 mech every 2 turns or so. But a clever commander will make use of terrain to LoS block their weapons and get close before they can really use their range to much advantage. Plus you can employ armor sharing tactics to bait the clans to spread damage. Once the IS closes, even if they're down a unit, they usually have the advantage.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Vixen is 1.6k base, and I wouldn't want to play either of the Record Sheets Clan Invasion Venoms into it, one is too lightly armored and the other is 1k. Didn't see a Mongoose at a quick flip through that PDF, but I don't imagine you getting one for 600 if you are saying it is good. And at 9/14 the Vixen has a decent chance of being able to slip past just two lights to chunk a more valuable mech.
And the Blood Asp G is only 2.4k and I can almost even defend the UAC/2s on it to follow up on the gauss and two cERLLs without having to close to SRM range. Almost. Though the E is 3.2k with 2 cERPPCs, 4 ATM 3s, 2 cMPLs and a TC at 4/6/4, which isn't something I would want to send a pair of 1.6k mechs into. Maybe throwing three Charger's at it would work, but you would want favorable terrain.
And now that I have said that, the image of a lance of Chargers trying to swarm a Blood Asp is a metal enough image to make me almost approve of it as a mech.
@@135forte lmao. My video on the Charger seemed to convince a few people at least. I think it's a great distraction unit. And hell, if it gets on top of a blood asp, that thing isnt gonna have legs pretty soon. I think you wanna take em in pairs alongside units with actual guns, like a couple Ostrocs or something. That is a scary lance. Add in a couple support units and you can make the clanners shake in their boots! Lol.
My MM group has pretty much abandoned BV2 balance in our clan story in favor of more narrative balance since we are basically running a full campaign for each side.
@@shueyk2320 once you get to a certain size it matters a bit less lol... but even then Id try to keep some semblence of balance. How big of a campaign? Do you have a full nova?
I think you can do well against Clans in a stand up fight too. I feel like one kind of list that works is half metal mountain, half BV efficient medium cavalry like Wraith, Chameleon W, Wolverine K
@@TrailblazerBT Ya being able to rush them down with fast movers is not bad. The Venom I have there works well in that role for a cheap price. 10 armor on all the important bits, decent knife fighter. Adding in a Wraith and a couple more cheap lights might work. The clan LPLs really make TMM less effective tho. So maybe medium cavalry is the call like u said. 55 tonners are also great at stomping toads. Exactly 11 damage feels good.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Right TMMs are not sufficient protection against Clan PLs. But they help at the margin when combined with armor, that's why I think medium cav is the sweet spot
@@TrailblazerBT Perhaps. I shall think on the counter further lol.
good insights on the use of battle value. Reminds me of an operation al game form twenty years back or so. We did our production based on BV . One player took all elite protomech and BA, and i must say wrecked my mech force
@@Dreadwolf3155 lmaooo Elementals are *nasty* little toads. I hate fighting them and their cousin the Salamander. The flamers always mess me up(we use the rule where flamers do heat and damage)
@@TheManyVoicesVAElementals and IS BA are my absolute favorites whenever I wanna round out my force. They're annoying to the enemy and are super cheap to take.
@@AlexDenton0451 IS BA is good because it's so cheap. Slightly less armor and 1 less suit means they are much cheaper. But Elementals... even 1 of them left alive can leg attack you and knock you down. Then their toad buddies just wreck you with a zillion flamers. Elementals are one of the best things the clans have IMO. 11 health is so damn annoying to kill. People bring inferno SRMs *specifically to deal with Elementals.* You know you have something killer when people are bringing something to counter them!
@@TheManyVoicesVA 11 health makes them amazing. I basically always bring either a SRM inferno boat or medium pulse boat specifically to deal with them for this reason.
@@TheManyVoicesVA oh gosh yes when playing clan i always take salamanders. They're hell against combined arms units
Always suspected having more units to sink your BV into would make IS better in most cases
@@androssthered1157 having more armor is strong. Clans can definitely pick apart the IS but they have to be careful about it. It's a cat and mouse game. IS has cheap slow heavies and mediums, where the clans have long range pulse laser machines that move faster than their size would suggest.
My personal take is that Clans always have enough heat sinks to fire all of their weapons and that fact alone makes the game very unbalanced VS. IS that have to choose which weapon to use.
@@marc-andregingras4753 this is not true lol. Many have too many hot weapons and will cook themselves pretty quick. Nova prime for example. Gargoyle J as well! I still like playing the Gargoyle tho.
Clans do have smaller DHSs though so they do tend to have better cooled mechs. Ur right about that.
Cheap Mechs with Firepower at Range...2 Archers, 1 Marauder, 1 Warhammer
Concentrate Fire at one Target at the Time.
If possible a few Cavalery Mechs or Tanks and the Clanners will...since they are Duellers...curse the Day they were Born
(Of course that does only Work if the Clan Player plays them according to Clan Rules^^)
@@merkarion7883 in my experience, doing duels is way too hard lol. It takes extra time and is annoying. I tend to feel like clans have the mobility and range to win the ranged duel handily. Where they struggle is up close more than far away. I try to rushdown with tough cavalry and have some solid brawlers plod towards them usually lol. That's just my general strategy though.
@@TheManyVoicesVA It is Funny if you think about it. In Lore the Clanner have the superiority Technology...but due to their Rules of duelling they make themselve Vulnerable.
There is a Fanfic in which the Federated Commonwealth uses 20 Century War on them...complete with behind the Lines Commando Attacks, Guerillia Attacks and overwhelming Mass of Troops (like 5 or 8 to one)...and the Jadefalcons are crushed.
Of Course in Tabletop you don´t see something like that^^
@@merkarion7883 I mean in TT you *could* see something like that, just represented a little smaller. I usually have 3 mechs for every 2 the clans have when I face them. I *could* take like 3 panthers for the cost of 1 clan mech though. You can play out the guerrilla tactics with base attack missions and the like.
An ACTUAL Clan unit would not fight by "Battle Value".......
I mean then you can balance by Cbills and see that clan mechs cost *astronomical* amounts of money lol. You can literally buy a whole lance of IS heavies with standard engines for the cost of a timber wolf.
I've been brining Clan Brawl lists to some of the MRC events, they can be super dangerous, I felt very powerful. But they are not Clan Mechs that most people would bring. Turkina U and Crossbow E usually get skipped over, but they are very efficient and bring a TON of firepower.
@@wilsonw13 I think you stomped me with mass SRMs with that crossbow lol
IS brings more toys to the field. That's the point and the fun of playing as the Clans. Their philosophy is to do as much as possible with the smallest force manageable.
@@Mr._Anderpson That is very true lol. Clans mechs are really strong individually compared to IS units. A 2-1 ratio isnt unwinnable for them if the IS player has introtech lol.
I was surprised to hear such an obscure design as the Night Chanter mentioned. Is it popular in competitive BT?
@@Elit3Nick yes. Standard engine clan mechs are tough and provide much needed cheap bulk.
@@TheManyVoicesVA I guess in the same vein as the Crossbow Omni
It would be interesting to see how combined arms clans vs IS would go down.
@@CaptainBanjo-fw4fq Ive faced it. Pike support(plasma) is a hell of a thing. It kept one of my energy boats from firing for most of the game lol. Ive also fielded some clan tanks that IS get access to and man, they are good.
I generally find that IS is routinely better in most casual games. BT Classic generally favors the side with more mechs so much more in an engagement that as soon as the IS can either negate the Clan range advantage or get one or two lucky hits in to knock of some guns, the IS will generally take the field without weird nonsense like random headshots from ERPPCS/Gauss. Running campaigns where the Clanners are willing to take tactical losses by murdering half your company at range and then quitting the field mostly intact, however, is an entirely different discussion.
That said, I played a large-scale defense mission on a very, very big map, and the IS got absolutely shredded. If they're allowed to play around their range advantage, those clanners can do some dirty, nasty things. Oof. Luckily, most mapsheets in casual play don't give them the chance to.
For context, I usually play 3rd Succession War up through the FedCom Civil War.
@@CC-vp1on these are good points. But ya generally maps above say 35×25 are very rare. You make an interesting point about campaigns. Im playing in a campaign style tournament with persistent damage. It will be cool to see how that shakes out.
I have definitely faced Clans when they can use range to their advantage very well and it is *brutal* how strong they are. JJs+forested mountain=dead IS heavies.
I think given equally skilled players the Clan player tends to be at a disadvantage unless you exploit BV holes like pulse lasers and one-shot guided missiles like the Fire Moth H
@@willydstyle lol the Fire Moth guided missile XD the firemoth is crazy because it can run up on something with 4 TMM. It is actually a pain to hit it.
I agree tho. It is much easier to send a lance of heavy mechs marching in vs skirmishing with long range weapons.
Space AT&T for life baby.
@@chadweirick Holy Blake protects
I play clans most of the time, and i agree on all points. purely from a competitive perspective, you are already on your backfoot playing clans. especially in the ilclan era, where an IS opponent can take mixed tech or some clantech units if they need them while clan factions are much more restricted. it doesn't mean clan players cant win, they've won competitions before, but that tightened margin for error is real.
@@jasonames145 Ya each piece is precious. It's like playing chess with no pawns, but all your pieces are queens.
As primarily a.clan player and my play groups resident villain. my IS faction of choice is comstar/word of blake.
If you are not playing objective missions, you are giving clan players the option to avoid IS strengths and no incentive to advance beyond max weapon range and take pot shots at you. Good luck? Any experienced mech commander will fold up your mechs like a cheap suit before sending your mechs to the scrap pile.
@@snarkymcsnarkface1863 Exactly. Gotta have objectives IMO. It is a necessary element of Battletech to me. If you just play kill points it's too hard to establish a battleline so lists with 4/6 mechs(which the IS love to bring) will get kited and killed.
Clanners seething rn
@@ginger7288 Lol I do not mean to offend! I think I treat both factions fairly. I am certainly not convinced one or the other is strictly better. They both have strengths and weaknesses.
@TheManyVoicesVA True. I had to take a jab at them as revenge for yesterday, where a clanner wiped the floor with me in a 10k bv game. He got a cockpit shot one of my 2 big damage dealers on phase one. Then my other one failed a PSR after taking a bunch of damage, which made him fall, got an unlucky crit, which hit a full ammo bin, making him explode.
@@ginger7288 LMAO it sounds like you need revenge on the dice, not the Clans XD
That's Battletech, baby. That's why I had my video on how to better balance the game! Edge is great. Really makes those turn 2 head shots a thing of the past. Just means you get head shot like turn 4 instead lmao.
The raptor is so expensive not because of the weapons but because of the 7 movement it gets from the xl and endo steel. 7 is a large increase in bv multiplier over 6. Just like 5 is a large increase over 4. The increase in multiplier is disproportional to how much it changes the actual tmm.
The gargoyle and charger have the same movement but the wxtra weapons are all multiplied and then all of that is multiplied by the cost of the 3 gunnery you gave it over the chargers 5.
Saying that the cost increases are caused by the weapons and more specifically by the ranges of the weapons is not accurate. The problem is not that clan weapons cost more (which they do but only a little) but that they have more weapons and then they are all multiplied by an even larger value due to movement and gunnery scores.
@@kenlove9186 well you can pretty easily compare it to other Raptors, it costs twice as much as the cheaper models. The only difference is clan weapons.
If I dropped the gunnery on everything I could grab another mech, I suppose. It was more so meant to show that clans tend to go for much fewer mechs than IS.
It's the whole package. When you have an opponent that is surprisingly fast for the tonnage, has weapons that outrange you and hit harder, have better trained pilots by default, and/or either lighter components to save weight for more armor or more durable engines and armor... you might be in for a bad time. Now add Omni-mech flexibility and critical space optimization and there is a reason why Spheroids are sweating even when they have those dirty Clanners outnumbered.
@@77professional Lol running into the teeth of their gunline with inferior tech is certainly scary. Clans put out scary damage on each unit. Good commanders can out-pilot you and skirmish with cover using JJs or fast movement to get much better target numbers than you. You kinda have to close to point blank to kick and medium laser them to death.
Maps can make the process easier for IS. LoS blocking terrain is amazing for closing without taking damage. Lay ambushes for clan scout mechs so they get shot to pieces while looking for your lance behind a hill. Ive faced clans while they were able to skirmish my heavy forces before. They just pick you apart from afar with pulse lasers.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Gauss rifles work pretty good in ruining their day from afar. ERPPCs can be surprisingly useful as they will put in the work no matter the range bracket Clanners try to play in and really shine on mediums. Regular PPC's are good for putting out a lot of damage for little weight and heat particularly with double heatsinks. The LBX-10 is another one that is reliable for going against Clanners. The medium laser is just the most efficient weapon in the game. Use LRM's and SRM's to help finish them off. I mean plenty of other stuff works as well but these seem to be the efficient methods.
@@77professional 100% you nailed it. The LB10X is among the best weapons in the game for sure. The utility of having slug shots for hard targets and cluster for AA and crit seeking is amazing. Decent damage for its weight and heat.(comparable to a PPC, until you include 2 tons of ammo, at least.) I like an LB10 and a PPC paired up. Add in an LRM pack and some medium lasers, that's a hell of a good heavy.
NIce!!!
@@sep0319 thanks :)
Clan are better; 500 years of non-stop R&D. Inner Sphere literally forgot how to make them due to Nuking themselves into the stone age many times over in that 500 years. What Innersphere has is Numbers. Way more mechs and people then the Clans who are so short on humans they started cloning. SO in the novels it was the classic battle. Superior tech and Genetics vs Mass Attrition. To mess with that narrative (cough cough mwo) is not cannon.
@@C_P_B_C lol. Logistics always wins. If the IS hadnt turned on themaelves again, they would have wiped the clans out.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Exactly. It is the same reason, the Germans Lost the world wars.
No surprise there. Cheap shit almost always wins in turn based games. Action economy. 1000 goblins will eventually beat the level 10 fighter.
@@centurion7398 hmmm this isn't quite on that scale though haha. We're talking like a 50% increase in actions at most. Usually not even that much, though those actions might be Elementals instead of mechs sometimes. Clan mechs also throw out way more damage at longer ranges and have more mobility.
Overall the two are pretty balanced, but I think IS is better at just slamming mechs into the enemy's face and brute force, where Clans need more finesse.
@@TheManyVoicesVA Hyperbole sure, and it's not always the case, but most of the time, when things are relatively close to even 7 times out of 10 the things that take more turns and roll more dice take more W's. I'm fairly new to BT table top, but not to table top in general.
Fastcam magnet mine artillery can't use movement speed if you don't have legs
@@trowabarton4278 mine fields are pretty great. But they are not super consistent. It's also rather hard to lay a really big one. You need either artillery or a crapton of LRMs.
Give me a bv, other guy takes whatever mechs he wants. i will take panthers. I will win more often than not. People always tend to shovel bv into better pilots or into more guns on a single mech. So many ways to waste bv on things you wont use. Good ol panther.... a ppc. Can jump 4, shoot ppc build 1 heat. or jump 3 and shoot ppc to stay heat stable. the srms will occasionally get use, but not a huge issue to use or not to use. I save bv by not paying for a heavier dmg kick.
Think about it. Someone wants to play 12k and they go clans they will get maybe 5 mechs or 4 plus a point of elementals. I will bring 15 panthers stock pilots. Mass ppc fire I will wreck mechs and with those kinds of numbers I can shield my damaged mechs. The only way the panther force struggles in large maps or scenarios where you have to chase someone down or get something and get off the map with it.
Hmm. Interesting idea. I always like to bring a combined force of different kinds of units. Some fast flankers, a couple cavalry, 1 support fire unit, maybe some cheap battle armor riding an omni mech with flamers to heat up enemy units.
@@TheManyVoicesVA The group I play with has gotten used to my mass formations of one mech type. They get frustrated because they will quite often nearly kill something and then watch it hobble away while the front line holds. They then spend a few turns trying to kill some other mech and watch it also retreat back.
If you want some good ideas to try:
mass stock blackjacks with precision ammo. Get on a hill, go stationary and start plinking. people tend to close on you and then remember you are really a medium laser boat.
mass rommel gauss tanks. Drive them in a tight formation and put fear into the opposing force when you get 3+ gauss hits to land in a single turn. Do not go flank speed. Just roll along and keep your front to the enemy as long as possible.
Mass panther formation. Crazy amount of survivability for the bv cost. Consider inferno ammo and set fires to create smoke.
Mass stock awesome formation. Not as good as panthers for holding back, but the kicks can make up for that.
Change of pace look up the devil mech. Run a pile of those one day. Its good. Save this for when someone wants to run with quirks.
Another weird one that will actually work. Mass locust 1M formation. If you want to get a little extra out of it drop the medium lasers and add thunder lrm ammo. This will drive the bv down even further and the sheer number of them you can bring to the table is over the top nuts. You will lose mechs, but if you keep the tmm high and stick to the outer edge of medium range for your lrms you will really frustrate you opponent. You will have an edge in initiative.
Warhammer 6D. Mass formation is quite good. No ammo so you can skip those ammo explosion risks try a mass koshi formation. You can really wreck someone with all the srms.
Stock battle cobras. basically a fast clan mech with 2 large pulse lasers. Its a good choice for those who like that pulse laser fun.
Similar vein try the cougar prime. In fact
mix it up and run some cougars and some battle cobras.
I could go on and on, but hopefully this gets you interested in mass formations using efficient bv units.
Oh and I almost always use 4/5 pilots. I want more units wherever possible. Mass units means you can sink initiative with some guys in the back or on the flanks. Then you can pounce hard if the opponent makes a mistake.
I like IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan. But IS vs Clan is BORING AS DEATH. IS can only use one strategy, rush rush rush. That is zero fun for me. The Clans at least get to maneuver, which can be more fun, but you are playing a opponent that is rushing. BORING. I have pretty much given up on IS vs Clan games.
@@readwatchlisten2863 Lol I find that you are pretty much correct... But I do still enjoy playing IS vs Clans. My pile of armor slowly grinding away at the clan forces is a lengthy process, as I lose mech after mech... But I have more mechs than them.
@TheManyVoicesVA I dont hate on people who like IS vs. Clan games. If that is your style, I'm sure it's a blast. What I do like to do is bring mixed forces. Maybe bring a Clan Assault mech and then fill out with some IS mediums and lights. That is fun 😁.
I don't use battle value.
I mean, if you're not playing campaign/scenario, then BV is the only way to get a proper even match
@@Elit3Nick "Even"? Y'all kids these days think war is "Fair"? You're on patrol and the enemy is going to "play fair"? Got it.....
While I appreciate the sentiment of "war isn't fair," that is incredibly cancerous in wargames. You can't just be like "I'll take a heavy star, you can take 2 light lances." The power of units is vastly different, even within weight classes. If you're playing clans vs clans? Fine. If you're playing IS vs Clans things get really wonky with tonnage balancing, or even Cbills. Clans pay a massive premium for their extremely effective long range weapons like ERPPCs, LRMs with no min range, etc. If you aren't actually accounting for that, then you end up getting STOMPED as an IS player. Getting stomped isn't fun. For me, I don't even like when I win with a much more brutally effective list of units, even if it *is* BV balanced. I end up just kind of feeling bad... It's when I find skill and forces to be evenly matched that I have the most fun, and feel that my good plays can shine and show my skill. (Although with Battletech it's more often that one person just gets some crazy TAC or headshot kill turn 2 that swings the match, lol.)
@@TheManyVoicesVA I never even HEARD of "Battle Value" until this new stuff came out. all my Battletech stuff is from the FASA years. i have most of the mercenary scenario books, Battletechnolgy magazines, Solaris pack. Mechwarrior RPG, NONE of those mention "Battle value". Now, you guys, If a Clan force lands on your world and demands a Batchall, You're going to demand that the point value be "even"?
@@SmegHedd117 Id like to point out that the Clans literally do that with bidding lol.