My mom aplogized to me the night I graduated high school in 1995. She said, "I'm sorry I didn't save money for your college. I could've sworn Jesus would've come back by now."
Obviously you know nothing of Yelm Washington..... Where they wear Birkenstock's with wool socks, kiss trees and eat dirt ...... What I call whack-a-doodles ...... Although they are far more open minded people looking for the truth, they are funny, strange and endearing people...... unlike the narrow minded, uptight christians who believe in the "Goat Herders guide to the universe" (or what they call the bible) .......
Man, as much as I would love to study everything Ehrman studies, I don't know if I could emotionally make it through those Q&As. But every time a touchy question came up, he kept it lighthearted and found a way of teaching that would really reach them. I love this video.
Alright, guys, we have one of the best scholars of New Testament history here and he’s willing to answer our questions. Let’s ask him a bunch of BS about Mary Magdalene and nothing else.
Wow, one of my favorite Ehrman talks/discussions yet. His debates get a little repetitive (the nature of having the same argument over and over and over), but this crowd and discussion are absolutely fun, enlightening, and awesome. I loved how he got to flex and show off the breadth of his knowledge, not just historicity of Jesus stuff. Too much fun. And with a metaphysical leaning crowd. How awesome!
Yeah, and his flexing came about very naturally as with the question about Mary Magdalene, he realized maybe he was being a bit too terse and gave the asker something that touches on the subject even if it wasn't exactly what they wanted to hear (because there is no mention of Mary Magdalene having that kind of relationship with Jesus).
Not to say that it happened as you suggested but the stories are different. Just read them individually and take note of all the differences and contradictions. One question amongst many to ask. Is what did Judas do with the money 💰 and how did Judas die. A million dollar question
Great talk. Funny seeing the contrast between his serious, erudite tone and the bizarre questions of the audience - I got the impression that some of these people are new agers/gnostic mystic types, hehe
"Is there a 1 in 9999999999999999999999999 chance that Dan Brown was right? I will ask this until you say yes because I base my entire world view on it."
Me Yo hahaaaa Probably right. I don’t see that but some probably are crushing on him. I listen to Bart to fall asleep to...I find him relaxing, predictable and he repeats the same lecture 50 times with small changes so it is just interesting enough to follow and just slow enough to nod off to. LOL. But I love his work even if I am more of a mythacist personally. It is all myth/ legend-every bit of it. Yet sprinkled with some historic towns and people.
Cat ladies are far saner than this bunch. Also, cats definitely exist, and are adorable enough to inspire building a collection. I can understand cat ladies.
To be fair, The Da Vinci Code was a tight, well-written novel. People just need to learn to not confuse good fiction with reality. I grew up immersed in Middle-Earth and loved it with every fibre of my being, but you don't see me asking astrophysicists whether there's any hope of discovering the way into the West. If the state/fed gov made decisions based on actually wanting to improve the country, there would be classes in formal logic, source evaluation and critical thinking beginning in middle school, but unfortunately that doesn't produce easily manipulated voters or obedient workers, so we can't have that. We just train kids in the basic skills they need to generate wealth for the owners and to not think too hard about the whys and the what ifs. The by-product of that non-education is this.
If you're talking about the lady at 19:42 all the way to 31:24, she still got in the last dig when she said, "Thank you very much, and best wishes to you on your research and your 'future discoveries'". In other words, it's just a matter of time.
These people are nutcases... Seriously, a question should be short and clear... Like: What's for dinner? They ask it like: If you go to the supermarket and you walk around with a shopping cart... When you then pick up certain items and put it in your cart with the intention of purchasing it... What will it be and how will you prepare it in the evening?
That's not just these people, it's all people in all academic settings. Nobody wants to ask a question, they want to show off how much they already know.
Dan Brown must be the bane of Dr. Erhman's existance. The lady at 19:43 shows this need to believe the "wife of Jesus" story. Women have been so harmed by Christianity it's not surprising.
Totally, they're so diminished by Christian dogma that they search for powerful effeminate connections outside of the official line, it's why women revere rebel icons like Lilith and go through "witch" fazes, it's because internally even they don't agree with the masculine fundamentals of their own religion.
I want to thank you for making thiseasier to understand. It's taken me a long time to able to walk away from religion as well and it wasn't easy. Your right it is the fear, but through logic, reason, and education. I feel more alive than ever before. Thanks.
Outstanding q&a! I have only just recently started listening to Dr. Ehrman's talks and am sad I didn't find him ten years ago! Loved this entire lecture! Very clear and precise talk!
Amazing and creative. So much energy and individuality. So refreshing after struggling through Trumpland's hellish swamp of darkness and dirt. Gives on hope. Please let us survive this madness and grow stronger, embracing our unique light and truth and living our bliss.
Drunk or stoned? Audience represents strange mix of arrogance and ignorance. I admire Bart's remarkable ability to provide a useful, interesting answer to nonsensical questions.
@@TrueBiblicalChristia Really? Do you think their any worse than faith healers, snake handlers or for that matter, belief in a magic baby or indeed anything that defies the rational? These folks are no more "misguided" or have "separated their minds" than ceremonies that transubstantiate unleavened bread into actual flesh or wine into actual blood are. The bottom line is: once you reject the reality of the world for the unreality of any religious belief, one irrationality is as good as the next.
You see how one can embrace love and truth and laughter without judging each other and dissing their ability to form questions. Take your negativity somewhere else please. We're enjoying life and each other over here. We rebuke your bad vibes!
I loved this talk. It was very entertaining. Bart's sense of humor is wonderful. I share his values for sure and hope to see you all at his blog. Keep going Bart, it's fun learning from you.
You know something's wrong when the youtube comments make more sense than the live audience. Poor Bart didn't know what he was getting himself into there.
I had the pamphlet 88 reason, and I got the next one 89 reasons because of a "Mathematical error". I remember I was physically sick thinking about what to do for forever when I was a fundamentalist Christian. I deconverted after over 27 years of research. I was saved at the age of 5 and I deconverted at the age of 45.
Muggles Cake Sniffer I too was saved (brainwashed) at five. When my children grew up I decided I might take up theological studies. Not only the literary contradictions, but the absolute farcical nature of the epistles of Paul, began to gnaw at my logic and critical thinking. It took only 1 year of study to become unconverted much to my children’s absolute delight. The three of them said they had a hard time accepting I had still believed after all of them realising in Sunday school it was all,fairy tales. They had been respectful of my belief but would never engage in discussion about it only to say come on mum you can’t possibly still think that way laughing.
That guy that asked the first question is a rather patient cool guy. I say this because as he sat there waiting to ask his question the guy talking kept putting his hand on this guys shoulder. He kept looking at the hand on his shoulder but responded not. I personally don’t like strangers touching me, it’s a pet peeve I guess.
I may not agree with everything Barth has said, but I think his contribution towards understanding the source of the bible and it's content is invaluable. Thanks so much for the insight.
So funny when the lady asks a great long question about Mary and Jesus and you just reply "err..no". Haha. People seem to miss the whole point of Jesus's mission to save Mary not shag her. Lol
@@abj136 how is it conclusive?? Did Jesus himself write any of these documents?? Was any of these historical "evidence" documented during the life of Jesus??
I utterly like the passage at 37:10, when Bart explains where he comes from. My own experience is very different in all the details, but similar in the essence.
The eccentric nature of the crowd(notice they're all sitting on the floor) is explained by the fact this lecture("dialogue" as used in The School) is being held at The Rathma School of Enlightenment in Yelm, Washington. The "school" was started by a woman named, J.Z. Knight. She claims to be channeling an ancient warrior who fought against Atlantis; Rathma. She is a nutso. Her story is almost as interesting as this lecture!, It is she-not J.Z. the music mogel-who is asking questions over the internet. I was a bit confused at first. Rathma doesn't seem to ask any questions. But why should he?. He has all the answers.
What does Ehrman think about a 35,000-year-old being called Ramtha the Enlightened One? Belief in Ramtha the Enlightened One may provide some explanation of the audience.
Investigate what is accomplished by the students there... you may want to go yourself... it is wise not to judge what you don't have an experience with...
@@dlehmann8353 accomplishments or not doesnt negate the death, injuries, controversial beliefs of a group of nutcases who think their leader chick is channeling a 35k yr old mystical thing called Ramtha with all the cult bells and whistles of brain washing, fear tactics and such
I agree with his summation - when at 40 I turned away from my catholic christian upbringing and for the last 30 years I am a spiritualist free from the chains that do not allow me to think.
I also wondered about that. I'm pretty sure quite many of them have a kind of mindset that would welcome anything which would be considered unorthodox by 'normal' Christians.
No, it is very revealing. Hence the applause. The gospels that were removed, are the gospels of the people that were very close to Jesus. Something that is probably not a coincidence. If Thomas is his brother, it explains why his gospel was removed. Thomas probably didn't write about Jesus asif he was divine. He wrote about Jesus as a man... It was very important at one time, to make Jesus out to be God himself. So if mother Mary gave birth as a virgin, because she was implanted with the seed of God, then why would she give birth to twins, were one is the messiah and the other a normal guy? You see, the Bible was very large... and the story became a little scrambled and unclear... So they just removed the contradicting gospels. The Bible as we have it now, is chopped up. They even documented that they removed a great percentage of the story. The church, at one point, didn't want to tell the story of a man... They wanted to tell the story of a god...
@Chartoise - good answer. What a lot of Christians, including a good number of Christian 'scholars,' refuse to admit that the New Testament was written, edited, and put together by PEOPLE. Just ordinary people, like you and me. And, those people had agendas that in most cases were anything but pious. Obviously, when 'editing' turns into 'suppressing the real story' - and then scraps of the real story survive that suppression - that doesn't reflect well on the 'orthodox' Church Fathers who engaged in that suppression. The truth of it is that the authors of the bible were often diametrically opposed to the teachings of the historical Jesus, beginning with St. Paul. And that opinion doesn't come from any Gnostic or heretical new discoveries. If the only parts of the New Testament you ever read were Epistle to the Galatians and Acts of the Apostles, you would see that Paul was the ENEMY of Jesus followers, who after the crucifixion followed St. James (another brother) as their leader. ..And the introduction to the gnostic Gospel of Thomas identifies him as Judas, Didymos Thomas. So it could in fact have been authored by this twin. Didymos is the Greek word for twin. Thomas is the Hebrew word for twin. Judas, twin twin. Quite a name. And possibly one and the same as the disciple 'doubting' Thomas.
It would seem like the venue organizers had a hard time filling up the venue and so opted to bus people in from the nearest mental institution without first giving those inmates to take their medications.
I literally was just thinking that..first off that lady at 18:00 took forever with her questions and then I could see she was basically having a come apart up their because she was like how is this important to me questioning Christianity!..and Bart's like well if you're a gnostic it's important because God is evil and this explains his evilness..and she's just like .."oh yeah. Thanks" but I feel she just was looking for a validating statement to be like these guys (gnostics) got it right!
Is it possible that somewhere out there there is an undiscovered lost gospel that confirms that Anakin Skywalker was indeed the chosen one to bring the balance to the force? Is it a possibility or a potential?
Excellent presentation. I would however like to ask whether Hisorians are evaluating like the bishops on Nicea did in 325AD and are really missing out things of importance that should be included as history. Possibly the discovery of more manuscripts could change history.
You mean when MEN took the books and stories and short works being passed around as fan fiction and decided what was true or not? If course they cut a lot If it out to make a state religion for Constantine that United the nation and made the followers passive to being ruled. Why would they nk t do that? It was to their advantage to set up passivity and power for themselves. They never thought we would come this far and be able to go find what they tried to destroy. They never realized the earth was not the center, or flat, or germs existed. These are the things God as Jesus would have known and told us.
Hello Mr. Ehrman, based on the observation that animals are not humans. Is it possible that one day there will be a gospel discovered that proves that Jesus had a vegan female dog named "Shlomit", who went on a mission and converted more animals to Christianity than the Apostles?
Yes what an old. Hidden gospel called the gospel of tin tin says wAs that supposedly tin tin was married to schlomit and had puppies that we're blessed by Jesus and landed At a shelter in southern france
Mormons are a whole different animal! I mean they're Christans but their orgins are with the time period in between the first and second great Awakening, and the theological questions both partaining to democarcy and in the case of Mormons, to the indginous and more importantly Christinaity in the USA.
Gnostics were the original Christians, who were killed off for a political roman version to expand the empire. Original gnostics were closer to the Eastern faiths that allows the connection of the individual to the universal divine. The gnostic writings mirror the Eastern spiritual philosophies very closely...
As far as the crowd goes, it was the weird building with the glowing blue pentacle that tipped me off to this venue differing from your typical auditorium. In the comments it states that it was filmed in Ramtha School of Enlightenment’s center. Just a quick google and boy oh boy does that explain a lot. It’s weird but no matter how many Jonestowns, Branch Davidians and Rajneeshpurams there are (to name a few) people can’t seem to stray away from joining cults. 🤷♂️ I guess they want to be in the - Gno. Ba-dum-pssssh 🥁
Hi Bart. Re: all the people asking why you as a historian can believe in the possibility of the Gospel of Judas without seeing it, but not attest to the marriage of Mary Magdalene and Jesus, a better explanation might have been that with a lot of the gnostic texts that were found to be extant, there was ample cooberating evidence from other historical sources that mentioned those texts and therefore made it easy to infer a) that the texts at least existed prior to being uncovered and b) that once they were uncovered, certain details written about the texts in the historical sources made it easier to authenticate those texts. Being that the heresyologists at the time deigned to write about the Gospel of Judas but not make any mention of a heretical Gospel that proclaims Mary the wife of Jesus gives credence to the likelihood that there was no heresy back then worth cataloging that contained a description of Mary as the wife of Jesus. I would imagine if there was such a text the heresyologist most definitely would have called it out as being particularly problematic. Then again, your long aside re: the apocalyptic sects not taking wives was rather interesting so I'm glad you didn't go with the easy answer regardless. Thanks for posting the video!
It was wonderful and pleasure to watch this presentation. There was two questions I would ask. 1st about the origin of Gnostic Christianity or Gnosticism per se. And 2d question Can we think based on the Gospel of Judas and other Gnostic gospels, that there was some sort of conflict among the apostols after Jesus Crucifixion?
I think that the relations between the apostles were much more complex and conflicted than the Gospels admit or reveal. I think that some of them had irreconcilable differences regarding the meaning of Jesus' teachings, and so went their separate ways, probably never to see each other again. They may, of course, have met violent deaths at the hands of the Roman authorities. Separate, distinct, and mutually contradictory interpretations of Jesus' teachings and ministry probably originated with the various survivors, but especially with their more educated, Greek speaking, literate converts who wrote Gospel accounts years or decades later. As educated, Greek speaking, literate Gentiles came into the picture, they, in turn, had their own ideas about Christ, less Jewish, and more Greek, and elaborated them in various ways, some that we would recognize as "orthodox," but others as "heterodox," e.g., various Gnostic groups. In any case, the two groups would have had only hostility for each other, continuing and widening the friction and discord that had started among the original disciples.
I think it would probably be best to simply accept the fact that there never was a single interpretation of what christianity was or should be. From a historical standpoint, there never was a real christianity anyway, so people had to figure things out the best they could. I find that complexity is very revealing & is what makes the development of all that diversity so worth study.
Mark Showalter Agreed. As a student of history, what I find most significant is how certain groups managed to promote successfully their own interpretations while at the same time succeeded in suppressing the views of others. I can only conclude that the "victors" took advantage of "going mainstream," and forming alliances with local authorities, who in turn helped them enforce their views. This involved a sort of "exoteric" version of Christianity, while their opponents practiced a much more "esoteric" form of the religion, a form which was obviously NOT understood or approved by the victors. In any case, early Church history is so full of variety and disagreement that no solid conclusions are possible about who was "right." I find my view reinforced by the many subsequent quarrels in Church history which continue to the present day. Note the Roman break with Constantinople, the Protestant break with Rome, the proliferation of Protestant sects, the great variety of Protestant views, and the continuing discoveries and debates over Church history, and reinterpretation of ancient documents, and their meanings, etc.
tabletalk33 My only amendment to your post is that not all groups would have tried to suppress other groups views since they obviously could not have known about every other view once the entire movement spread out. Plus, some groups like for instance the Gnostics, would probably have listened to an opposing view, then nodded & said " Yep, that's right! You got your gnosis experience & that's good for you! " As far as the esoteric ideas, they would have in some cases become a part of the mainstream as well, since there are gnostic views that have become the normative view in some christians circles, like the whole idea of personal revelation. "...In any case, early Church history is so full of variety and disagreement that no solid conclusions are possible about who was "right..." More or less agree but I would add that your point is more valid in terms of each group. So, the Roman Catholic church did this eventually in opposition to the heretical views of, say the Gnostics, the Martians (sic) etc. The Protestant came along & started the ball game all over again in opposition to the Catholic church, then later split up among themselves. Kind of like a bacterial infection..................
I love this lecture. It's the first new video of Ehrman I've seen in almost a year. But I don't understand what it means when the crowd claps. Does the organization have some kind of custom I should know about if I'm watching this? ~~Ian Suttle~~
This is also very puzzling to me, almost disrespectful to academia. I think some attendees are kind of "book club ladies" fans and will laugh hysterically at anything to support him. Others seem to be cultist of some form holding onto anything he would say that fits their personal beliefs (Mary Magdalene wife, twin of Jesus, etc) laughing nervously to be on "his side" as they've been shown errors in their judgement.
54:00 I've always felt there's a deep paradox in Christian teachings on marriage. On the one hand, it is portrayed as in some sense sacred, but on the other hand it is explicitely taught that it doesn't exist in Heaven? So how can something be sacred if it doesn't exist in Heaven? This paradox bothered me when I _was_ Christian. Fundamentalists will point to the idea attributed to Paul that the church is the bride of Christ, but that is problematic (to say the least) and in the epistles there is nothing to indicate it is more than an analogy. Elevating it to a received truth about the essence of marriage itself is a later innovation, and I've always wondered if a desire to resolve the aforementioned paradox was a driving force in that development. Also, it is very interesting that Bart regards this saying of Jesus as historical. I would love to know why, and also, to explore the implications of the conversation between Jesus and the Sadduccees as a whole, because he goes on to make some rather curious remarks. 55:00 A common mistake people make in talking about the history of religion is assuming that religions are or ever can be static. People seem particularly prone to make this mistake in the case of Judaism, for some reason. Modern Judaism is presupposed to be a reliable model for the Judaism of two thousand years ago. BTW, could scholars ever have been as stupid as portrayed at 55:48? I'm remembering some conversations I had about 20 years ago in with someone who made this error (which frustrated me at the time), but they weren't a scholar.
What if there is a life after this one, what if there is a God who did create this world and us for a purpose? Is your belief or there lack of a point of convenience? I do have to admit you’re an amazing speaker and extremely knowledgeable! I thank you for what you do... Belief is an individual thing...humanity is one. We need to live and let live
Dear Mr Erhman, listening to the part about the apocolpytic Jesus, would you consider that although having the eternal supernal divine spark, he is also an organic being and thus some of his own views and visions may grow or change slightly through the course of time as he himself shares them with his disciples? If you haven't read "Christ, a crisis in the Life of God" this puts an interesting perspective on the way the YHWH of the old testament is actually growing and changing alongside his creation, and Jesus is part of that god's own development. Your lectures are awesome, thank you :-)
Can't believe you believe this!!! God is eternal. He is one. There is nothing comparable to him. He is perfection. The act of learning is human. Not the perfect God who created man, the magnificence of the universe and everything within it.
Wrong. Hillary Clinton won the State of Washington in 2016. Of that State's 12 electoral votes, HRC received 8 and 4 defected. Of the four, 3 voted for Colin Powell, and one Native American elector voted for a Native American from Washington State. Zero electoral votes for Trump, who received about 36% of the State's popular vote.
I don't know therefore I can't and I shouldn't say anything about the things I'm unaware of. An Atheist is simply a rationalist and a philosopher who dismisses religious faith as an inaccurate and insufficient method of learning about the reality around us.
It is amazing how intelligently he can answer any weird question
My mom aplogized to me the night I graduated high school in 1995. She said, "I'm sorry I didn't save money for your college. I could've sworn Jesus would've come back by now."
What is worse is that money was probably put in the collection plate and the tithe envelope at church.
That's sad man.
11:50 I really admire Bart saying "I don't know". I think more people need to say this.
"I'm agnostic and I'm an atheist." That's the thing. I do appreciate his unflinching candor.
Sometimes it's the most honest answer.
he really doesn't believe jesus existed he's just doing this for the money!
Almost always the best anser to give for anyone, anywhere, anytime anyway. (I think, I'm not sure)
'answer', I mean
Weird crowd. Weird questions. Great answers.
YOU ARE SO FREAKING RIGHT
It is RSE.... where one learns how to implement Consciousness and Energy to create reality - Quite dynamic place and teachings
@@pelhamonetwothree1239 The taking of?. I read a book with your title once..
Obviously you know nothing of Yelm Washington..... Where they wear Birkenstock's with wool socks, kiss trees and eat dirt ...... What I call whack-a-doodles ...... Although they are far more open minded people looking for the truth, they are funny, strange and endearing people...... unlike the narrow minded, uptight christians who believe in the "Goat Herders guide to the universe" (or what they call the bible) .......
Yeah it's a crazy group of old ladies who think they have magic powers. Look it up.
Man, as much as I would love to study everything Ehrman studies, I don't know if I could emotionally make it through those Q&As. But every time a touchy question came up, he kept it lighthearted and found a way of teaching that would really reach them. I love this video.
3:43 an identical twin brother makes the resurrection quite more attainable
Yes Thomas and Didymus both meaning twin seems important.
What does "attainable" mean in your context? Do you mean "more easily faked"? Because a twin would definitely make that an easier carnival trick.
So the qur'an could be true?
@@planeblaknwyt3537 Well yes, but actually no.
Alright, guys, we have one of the best scholars of New Testament history here and he’s willing to answer our questions. Let’s ask him a bunch of BS about Mary Magdalene and nothing else.
I agree the space ship landed and brought the crowd but the answers were as good as they could be to the questions.
Wow, one of my favorite Ehrman talks/discussions yet. His debates get a little repetitive (the nature of having the same argument over and over and over), but this crowd and discussion are absolutely fun, enlightening, and awesome. I loved how he got to flex and show off the breadth of his knowledge, not just historicity of Jesus stuff. Too much fun. And with a metaphysical leaning crowd. How awesome!
Yeah, and his flexing came about very naturally as with the question about Mary Magdalene, he realized maybe he was being a bit too terse and gave the asker something that touches on the subject even if it wasn't exactly what they wanted to hear (because there is no mention of Mary Magdalene having that kind of relationship with Jesus).
“That’s why they were Sad-U-Cee?” Haven’t heard a religious joke that good in a while
0:58 the guy sitting down looked extremely uncomfortable with that lingering hand on his shoulder.. 😂
You are so right about that!
I know! Haha he kept massaging his left shoulder!
hahahha I did not even notice that till you said it
No doubt. Poor bastard 😂
I noticed
If I were Jesus, I would have given everybody a different story just to watch people go crazy and argue till I came back
Didn't the Joker say something like that? "If I have to have a past, I want it to be multiple choice."
NIC FEL - Precisely!!! That exactly what evil would have done. 🙃🙃🙃 .
Not to say that it happened as you suggested but the stories are different. Just read them individually and take note of all the differences and contradictions. One question amongst many to ask. Is what did Judas do with the money 💰 and how did Judas die. A million dollar question
Great talk. Funny seeing the contrast between his serious, erudite tone and the bizarre questions of the audience - I got the impression that some of these people are new agers/gnostic mystic types, hehe
Some of them? You should Google the school which is the location for this lecture lol
Do tell!
"Is there a 1 in 9999999999999999999999999 chance that Dan Brown was right? I will ask this until you say yes because I base my entire world view on it."
this woman at 33:00 has never heard the expression "history is written by the winners"???
The sexual tension between the middle age female audience and this dude is palpable
Dessert Storm that shit was in MW2
Many women have never been encouraged nor treated like winners. You can help change that in your own corner of the world.
I was reading this comment while she was babbling 🤣😆 FFS does anyone have an intelligent question
Me Yo hahaaaa Probably right. I don’t see that but some probably are crushing on him. I listen to Bart to fall asleep to...I find him relaxing, predictable and he repeats the same lecture 50 times with small changes so it is just interesting enough to follow and just slow enough to nod off to. LOL. But I love his work even if I am more of a mythacist personally. It is all myth/ legend-every bit of it. Yet sprinkled with some historic towns and people.
I give you..... " Bart Ehrman meets Cat ladies"
Cat ladies are far saner than this bunch. Also, cats definitely exist, and are adorable enough to inspire building a collection. I can understand cat ladies.
Every time they say Dan Brown, I die a little.
Haha, I have same feeling. death by embarasment.
To be fair, The Da Vinci Code was a tight, well-written novel. People just need to learn to not confuse good fiction with reality. I grew up immersed in Middle-Earth and loved it with every fibre of my being, but you don't see me asking astrophysicists whether there's any hope of discovering the way into the West. If the state/fed gov made decisions based on actually wanting to improve the country, there would be classes in formal logic, source evaluation and critical thinking beginning in middle school, but unfortunately that doesn't produce easily manipulated voters or obedient workers, so we can't have that. We just train kids in the basic skills they need to generate wealth for the owners and to not think too hard about the whys and the what ifs. The by-product of that non-education is this.
Ehrman is an excellent teacher. I love his lectures. Informative & entertaining.
Is it plausible that [lengthy treatise veiled as a question]?
"No."
Alexander Kostrzewa Is it PLOOOOUSIBLE
If you're talking about the lady at 19:42 all the way to 31:24, she still got in the last dig when she said, "Thank you very much, and best wishes to you on your research and your 'future discoveries'". In other words, it's just a matter of time.
This guy is hilarious, I love him for that.
These people are nutcases... Seriously, a question should be short and clear... Like: What's for dinner?
They ask it like: If you go to the supermarket and you walk around with a shopping cart... When you then pick up certain items and put it in your cart with the intention of purchasing it... What will it be and how will you prepare it in the evening?
haha spot on.
That's not just these people, it's all people in all academic settings. Nobody wants to ask a question, they want to show off how much they already know.
Chartoise so true, you forgot to ad "as a person who eats dinner" at the beginning of each of your sentences lol.
Funny buddy!!
" What's for dinner?" If you believe in the Eucharist: Jesus!!
Dan Brown must be the bane of Dr. Erhman's existance. The lady at 19:43 shows this need to believe the "wife of Jesus" story. Women have been so harmed by Christianity it's not surprising.
Well it's more palatable than the beloved disciple being John who had his head on Jesus Christ all the time.
Totally, they're so diminished by Christian dogma that they search for powerful effeminate connections outside of the official line, it's why women revere rebel icons like Lilith and go through "witch" fazes, it's because internally even they don't agree with the masculine fundamentals of their own religion.
lol why does the crowd clap at such odd things
Yes! They clapped at the twin theory?
I want to thank you for making thiseasier to understand. It's taken me a long time to able to walk away from religion as well and it wasn't easy. Your right it is the fear, but through logic, reason, and education. I feel more alive than ever before. Thanks.
Outstanding q&a! I have only just recently started listening to Dr. Ehrman's talks and am sad I didn't find him ten years ago! Loved this entire lecture! Very clear and precise talk!
First impression, this is a wild group of people.
RSE - Look it up
completely.
Amazing and creative. So much energy and individuality. So refreshing after struggling through Trumpland's hellish swamp of darkness and dirt. Gives on hope. Please let us survive this madness and grow stronger, embracing our unique light and truth and living our bliss.
Omg I thought this lecture was about Judas Iscariot?! The QnA is just Mary Magdalene questions/arguments and sex with Jesus and Dan Brown fantasies.
Same. Questioning sanity of some.
is the audience drunk? They are laughing their ass off and their questions are really poorly formed
lesterhalfjr They've over meditated in the hope of separating their soul, but in so doing they've separated their minds.
Drunk or stoned? Audience represents strange mix of arrogance and ignorance. I admire Bart's remarkable ability to provide a useful, interesting answer to nonsensical questions.
@@TrueBiblicalChristia Really? Do you think their any worse than faith healers, snake handlers or for that matter, belief in a magic baby or indeed anything that defies the rational? These folks are no more "misguided" or have "separated their minds" than ceremonies that transubstantiate unleavened bread into actual flesh or wine into actual blood are. The bottom line is: once you reject the reality of the world for the unreality of any religious belief, one irrationality is as good as the next.
If you search for videos of their cult leader giving speeches, you'll get an idea of what kind of crowd Bart is surrounded by...
You see how one can embrace love and truth and laughter without judging each other and dissing their ability to form questions. Take your negativity somewhere else please. We're enjoying life and each other over here. We rebuke your bad vibes!
I loved this talk. It was very entertaining. Bart's sense of humor is wonderful. I share his values for sure and hope to see you all at his blog. Keep going Bart, it's fun learning from you.
Still not sure why they’re clapping at Bart saying that Jesus/Thomas are twins?
No Fun, too much Damn, and not enough Mental. Love it.
You know something's wrong when the youtube comments make more sense than the live audience. Poor Bart didn't know what he was getting himself into there.
I had the pamphlet 88 reason, and I got the next one 89 reasons because of a "Mathematical error". I remember I was physically sick thinking about what to do for forever when I was a fundamentalist Christian. I deconverted after over 27 years of research. I was saved at the age of 5 and I deconverted at the age of 45.
Muggles Cake Sniffer I too was saved (brainwashed) at five. When my children grew up I decided I might take up theological studies. Not only the literary contradictions, but the absolute farcical nature of the epistles of Paul, began to gnaw at my logic and critical thinking. It took only 1 year of study to become unconverted much to my children’s absolute delight. The three of them said they had a hard time accepting I had still believed after all of them realising in Sunday school it was all,fairy tales. They had been respectful of my belief but would never engage in discussion about it only to say come on mum you can’t possibly still think that way laughing.
As a Muslim I enjoyed this presentation. Thank you Dr
That guy that asked the first question is a rather patient cool guy. I say this because as he sat there waiting to ask his question the guy talking kept putting his hand on this guys shoulder. He kept looking at the hand on his shoulder but responded not. I personally don’t like strangers touching me, it’s a pet peeve I guess.
Best statement "Once you're dead you stay dead".
Very enlightening. I plan on buying some of Dr. Ehrman's books. I have read quite a bit on this subject and I am learning new things.
I may not agree with everything Barth has said, but I think his contribution towards understanding the source of the bible and it's content is invaluable. Thanks so much for the insight.
The cray cray is strong in this crowd.
So funny when the lady asks a great long question about Mary and Jesus and you just reply "err..no". Haha. People seem to miss the whole point of Jesus's mission to save Mary not shag her. Lol
Why not do both? Most men would and it's not so dumb when you hear Brad's story of that group in India
@Chupa Cabra Bart would lambaste that notion. The documentary evidence is conclusive.
@@abj136 how is it conclusive?? Did Jesus himself write any of these documents?? Was any of these historical "evidence" documented during the life of Jesus??
Apparently Mary was the one saving Jesus if she was financially supporting him...
What`s with all the stupid Mary questions? Dan Brown writes FICTION, how hard is that to understand...
Apparently, for some people... very hard. Loved the book, loved the movie, but never for a second I doubted it was a FICTION movie :)
I guess this particular cult believes in Mary as a divine figure
I mean the bible is fiction, so...
The Testament writers wrote fiction too. Bart won’t/ cannot afford to admit that fully. He is dug in now.
@@beastshawnee4987 is all of academia too dug in to admit it too? the academic consensus is that there was a historical Jesus
Wonderful that people are asking questions about the bible.
I utterly like the passage at 37:10, when Bart explains where he comes from. My own experience is very different in all the details, but similar in the essence.
The eccentric nature of the crowd(notice they're all sitting on the floor) is explained by the fact this lecture("dialogue" as used in The School) is being held at The Rathma School of Enlightenment in Yelm, Washington.
The "school" was started by a woman named, J.Z. Knight. She claims to be channeling an ancient warrior who fought against Atlantis; Rathma.
She is a nutso.
Her story is almost as interesting as this lecture!,
It is she-not J.Z. the music mogel-who is asking questions over the internet. I was a bit confused at first. Rathma doesn't seem to ask any questions. But why should he?. He has all the answers.
Serious teaching talent
Jeebus - who are all these ding-bats in the audience?!
One of my favourite Video by Bart Ehrman.
What's up with the applause at the most weird moments?
Don't be Sad u cee
What does Ehrman think about a 35,000-year-old being called Ramtha the Enlightened One? Belief in Ramtha the Enlightened One may provide some explanation of the audience.
Investigate what is accomplished by the students there... you may want to go yourself... it is wise not to judge what you don't have an experience with...
@@dlehmann8353 accomplishments or not doesnt negate the death, injuries, controversial beliefs of a group of nutcases who think their leader chick is channeling a 35k yr old mystical thing called Ramtha with all the cult bells and whistles of brain washing, fear tactics and such
I like to imagine that at 19:15 he stopped himself from saying "all that crap"
This is how you handle stupid questions.
I agree with his summation - when at 40 I turned away from my catholic christian upbringing and for the last 30 years I am a spiritualist free from the chains that do not allow me to think.
One of your best lectures very informative.
Why is there applause for the statement that in Syriac Christianity, Thomas is Jesus' twin brother? Are these people Gnostics?
I also wondered about that. I'm pretty sure quite many of them have a kind of mindset that would welcome anything which would be considered unorthodox by 'normal' Christians.
HConstantine Yes, that was pretty strange alright. I don't get why they applauded. I sense neither does Professor Ehrman.
HConstantine I agree: It seems that they are interested in anything that contradicts Orthodox Christian tradition.
No, it is very revealing. Hence the applause.
The gospels that were removed, are the gospels of the people that were very close to Jesus. Something that is probably not a coincidence.
If Thomas is his brother, it explains why his gospel was removed. Thomas probably didn't write about Jesus asif he was divine. He wrote about Jesus as a man... It was very important at one time, to make Jesus out to be God himself. So if mother Mary gave birth as a virgin, because she was implanted with the seed of God, then why would she give birth to twins, were one is the messiah and the other a normal guy?
You see, the Bible was very large... and the story became a little scrambled and unclear... So they just removed the contradicting gospels. The Bible as we have it now, is chopped up. They even documented that they removed a great percentage of the story.
The church, at one point, didn't want to tell the story of a man... They wanted to tell the story of a god...
@Chartoise - good answer. What a lot of Christians, including a good number of Christian 'scholars,' refuse to admit that the New Testament was written, edited, and put together by PEOPLE. Just ordinary people, like you and me. And, those people had agendas that in most cases were anything but pious.
Obviously, when 'editing' turns into 'suppressing the real story' - and then scraps of the real story survive that suppression - that doesn't reflect well on the 'orthodox' Church Fathers who engaged in that suppression.
The truth of it is that the authors of the bible were often diametrically opposed to the teachings of the historical Jesus, beginning with St. Paul. And that opinion doesn't come from any Gnostic or heretical new discoveries. If the only parts of the New Testament you ever read were Epistle to the Galatians and Acts of the Apostles, you would see that Paul was the ENEMY of Jesus followers, who after the crucifixion followed St. James (another brother) as their leader.
..And the introduction to the gnostic Gospel of Thomas identifies him as Judas, Didymos Thomas. So it could in fact have been authored by this twin. Didymos is the Greek word for twin. Thomas is the Hebrew word for twin. Judas, twin twin. Quite a name. And possibly one and the same as the disciple 'doubting' Thomas.
I see the cultists of the RSE are happy to show their prejudices and ignorance in this Q and A.
A very impressive lecture/standup comedy. Good job.
Very good presentation, utterly stupid questions.
Some questions have a feminist taste, yes. ( 'is Bart Ehrman a useful source or not' , seems to be the agenda behind those particular questions)
Consider the source: www.ramtha.com/video/ramtube.aspx
They sure have a healthy sense of humor though. They actually laugh at themselves.
No such thing as stupid questions, there's only stupid people who think questions are stupid
@@Thebigbendfungicompany well someone is proud of themselfs for coming up with what you are pretty sure is a zinger.
@@Thebigbendfungicompany well someone is proud of themselfs for coming up with what you are pretty sure is a zinger.
Bat droppings crazy questions.
He would make a great straight man. Love his stuff. His voice is soothing to me.
Excellent presentation!
Wow, the questions on here.
Outstanding presentation!
@ 15:20 That lady. LOL!! She's on, whatever the gnostics were on, when writing their gospels.
It would seem like the venue organizers had a hard time filling up the venue and so opted to bus people in from the nearest mental institution without first giving those inmates to take their medications.
...inmates a chance to take ...
Am I the only one that goes, "Aw hell, Another weirdo wasting a question." ?
I literally was just thinking that..first off that lady at 18:00 took forever with her questions and then I could see she was basically having a come apart up their because she was like how is this important to me questioning Christianity!..and Bart's like well if you're a gnostic it's important because God is evil and this explains his evilness..and she's just like .."oh yeah. Thanks" but I feel she just was looking for a validating statement to be like these guys (gnostics) got it right!
How long does it take to ask a question?
Very informative presentation. Thanks for posting!
Is it possible that somewhere out there there is an undiscovered lost gospel that confirms that Anakin Skywalker was indeed the chosen one to bring the balance to the force? Is it a possibility or a potential?
Coos Oorlog no
Excellent presentation. I would however like to ask whether Hisorians are evaluating like the bishops on Nicea did in 325AD and are really missing out things of importance that should be included as history. Possibly the discovery of more manuscripts could change history.
You mean when MEN took the books and stories and short works being passed around as fan fiction and decided what was true or not? If course they cut a lot If it out to make a state religion for Constantine that United the nation and made the followers passive to being ruled. Why would they nk t do that? It was to their advantage to set up passivity and power for themselves. They never thought we would come this far and be able to go find what they tried to destroy. They never realized the earth was not the center, or flat, or germs existed. These are the things God as Jesus would have known and told us.
Brilliant. An eye opener.
Hello Mr. Ehrman, based on the observation that animals are not humans. Is it possible that one day there will be a gospel discovered that proves that Jesus had a vegan female dog named "Shlomit", who went on a mission and converted more animals to Christianity than the Apostles?
Seems as reasonable as the claims made in current gospels
Yes what an old. Hidden gospel called the gospel of tin tin says wAs that supposedly tin tin was married to schlomit and had puppies that we're blessed by Jesus and landed At a shelter in southern france
Thank u Bart. Great presentation.
Seems like Gnoticism is similar to Hinduism.
I wonder what his thoughts are on Mormons? It's kind of nice that they are irrelevant in his discussions but I'm curious.
Mormons are a whole different animal! I mean they're Christans but their orgins are with the time period in between the first and second great Awakening, and the theological questions both partaining to democarcy and in the case of Mormons, to the indginous and more importantly Christinaity in the USA.
Funny and educational talk Bart.
lol some serious nutbars asking questions here.
Wonderful and dare I say Inspirational.
This guy is very entertaining and knowledgeable.
why are they so worried about the relationship with jesus and mary?.... they should ask questions relating to what he said for christ sake.
I was hoping that Ramtha would channel a question by way of JZ Knight for Bart.
You are great Person Doctor, Great Teacher, with a Great Spirit, Thank you.
God Bless you, LOL.
I loved this video... I'm going to share it.
Great Q&A, you killed it!
Gnostics were the original Christians, who were killed off for a political roman version to expand the empire. Original gnostics were closer to the Eastern faiths that allows the connection of the individual to the universal divine. The gnostic writings mirror the Eastern spiritual philosophies very closely...
As far as the crowd goes, it was the weird building with the glowing blue pentacle that tipped me off to this venue differing from your typical auditorium. In the comments it states that it was filmed in Ramtha School of Enlightenment’s center. Just a quick google and boy oh boy does that explain a lot. It’s weird but no matter how many Jonestowns, Branch Davidians and Rajneeshpurams there are (to name a few) people can’t seem to stray away from joining cults. 🤷♂️ I guess they want to be in the - Gno. Ba-dum-pssssh 🥁
Hi Bart. Re: all the people asking why you as a historian can believe in the possibility of the Gospel of Judas without seeing it, but not attest to the marriage of Mary Magdalene and Jesus, a better explanation might have been that with a lot of the gnostic texts that were found to be extant, there was ample cooberating evidence from other historical sources that mentioned those texts and therefore made it easy to infer a) that the texts at least existed prior to being uncovered and b) that once they were uncovered, certain details written about the texts in the historical sources made it easier to authenticate those texts.
Being that the heresyologists at the time deigned to write about the Gospel of Judas but not make any mention of a heretical Gospel that proclaims Mary the wife of Jesus gives credence to the likelihood that there was no heresy back then worth cataloging that contained a description of Mary as the wife of Jesus. I would imagine if there was such a text the heresyologist most definitely would have called it out as being particularly problematic.
Then again, your long aside re: the apocalyptic sects not taking wives was rather interesting so I'm glad you didn't go with the easy answer regardless.
Thanks for posting the video!
It was wonderful and pleasure to watch this presentation. There was two questions I would ask. 1st about the origin of Gnostic Christianity or Gnosticism per se. And 2d question Can we think based on the Gospel of Judas and other Gnostic gospels, that there was some sort of conflict among the apostols after Jesus Crucifixion?
I think that the relations between the apostles were much more complex and conflicted than the Gospels admit or reveal. I think that some of them had irreconcilable differences regarding the meaning of Jesus' teachings, and so went their separate ways, probably never to see each other again. They may, of course, have met violent deaths at the hands of the Roman authorities.
Separate, distinct, and mutually contradictory interpretations of Jesus' teachings and ministry probably originated with the various survivors, but especially with their more educated, Greek speaking, literate converts who wrote Gospel accounts years or decades later.
As educated, Greek speaking, literate Gentiles came into the picture, they, in turn, had their own ideas about Christ, less Jewish, and more Greek, and elaborated them in various ways, some that we would recognize as "orthodox," but others as "heterodox," e.g., various Gnostic groups.
In any case, the two groups would have had only hostility for each other, continuing and widening the friction and discord that had started among the original disciples.
I think it would probably be best to simply accept the fact that there never was a single interpretation of what christianity was or should be. From a historical standpoint, there never was a real christianity anyway, so people had to figure things out the best they could. I find that complexity is very revealing & is what makes the development of all that diversity so worth study.
Mark Showalter Agreed. As a student of history, what I find most significant is how certain groups managed to promote successfully their own interpretations while at the same time succeeded in suppressing the views of others.
I can only conclude that the "victors" took advantage of "going mainstream," and forming alliances with local authorities, who in turn helped them enforce their views. This involved a sort of "exoteric" version of Christianity, while their opponents practiced a much more "esoteric" form of the religion, a form which was obviously NOT understood or approved by the victors.
In any case, early Church history is so full of variety and disagreement that no solid conclusions are possible about who was "right."
I find my view reinforced by the many subsequent quarrels in Church history which continue to the present day. Note the Roman break with Constantinople, the Protestant break with Rome, the proliferation of Protestant sects, the great variety of Protestant views, and the continuing discoveries and debates over Church history, and reinterpretation of ancient documents, and their meanings, etc.
tabletalk33 My only amendment to your post is that not all groups would have tried to suppress other groups views since they obviously could not have known about every other view once the entire movement spread out. Plus, some groups like for instance the Gnostics, would probably have listened to an opposing view, then nodded & said " Yep, that's right! You got your gnosis experience & that's good for you! " As far as the esoteric ideas, they would have in some cases become a part of the mainstream as well, since there are gnostic views that have become the normative view in some christians circles, like the whole idea of personal revelation.
"...In any case, early Church history is so full of variety and disagreement that no solid conclusions are possible about who was "right..."
More or less agree but I would add that your point is more valid in terms of each group. So, the Roman Catholic church did this eventually in opposition to the heretical views of, say the Gnostics, the Martians (sic) etc. The Protestant came along & started the ball game all over again in opposition to the Catholic church, then later split up among themselves. Kind of like a bacterial infection..................
Can I get a 10 hour loop of Bart Ehrman just saying "blawg"?
I love this lecture. It's the first new video of Ehrman I've seen in almost a year. But I don't understand what it means when the crowd claps. Does the organization have some kind of custom I should know about if I'm watching this?
~~Ian Suttle~~
I didn't understand that, either.
This is also very puzzling to me, almost disrespectful to academia. I think some attendees are kind of "book club ladies" fans and will laugh hysterically at anything to support him. Others seem to be cultist of some form holding onto anything he would say that fits their personal beliefs (Mary Magdalene wife, twin of Jesus, etc) laughing nervously to be on "his side" as they've been shown errors in their judgement.
I think you hit the nail on the head there!
I don't really understand your point. Clapping is a fairly universal form of appreciation.
Ádám Morva I think you didn't watch the video. Ehrman mentioned the word "twin" and got an applause: how does "appreciation" explain that?
Hahaha why was there applause when Bart talked about Syriac belief that Thomas was Jesus twin brother? LOL so funny!
54:00 I've always felt there's a deep paradox in Christian teachings on marriage. On the one hand, it is portrayed as in some sense sacred, but on the other hand it is explicitely taught that it doesn't exist in Heaven? So how can something be sacred if it doesn't exist in Heaven? This paradox bothered me when I _was_ Christian. Fundamentalists will point to the idea attributed to Paul that the church is the bride of Christ, but that is problematic (to say the least) and in the epistles there is nothing to indicate it is more than an analogy. Elevating it to a received truth about the essence of marriage itself is a later innovation, and I've always wondered if a desire to resolve the aforementioned paradox was a driving force in that development. Also, it is very interesting that Bart regards this saying of Jesus as historical. I would love to know why, and also, to explore the implications of the conversation between Jesus and the Sadduccees as a whole, because he goes on to make some rather curious remarks.
55:00 A common mistake people make in talking about the history of religion is assuming that religions are or ever can be static. People seem particularly prone to make this mistake in the case of Judaism, for some reason. Modern Judaism is presupposed to be a reliable model for the Judaism of two thousand years ago. BTW, could scholars ever have been as stupid as portrayed at 55:48? I'm remembering some conversations I had about 20 years ago in with someone who made this error (which frustrated me at the time), but they weren't a scholar.
Why did they clap when he mentioned Jesus's twin brother Jude?
I feel sorry for any academic who has to engage with an audience that believes he will prove their particular belief system to be the true one.
What if there is a life after this one, what if there is a God who did create this world and us for a purpose? Is your belief or there lack of a point of convenience?
I do have to admit you’re an amazing speaker and extremely knowledgeable! I thank you for what you do...
Belief is an individual thing...humanity is one. We need to live and let live
Bart Ehrman rules !
Subject material: possibility to learn about a book that might have the secrets of the universe.
Questions:
Did Jesus and Mary Magdalene do the do?
Dear Mr Erhman, listening to the part about the apocolpytic Jesus, would you consider that although having the eternal supernal divine spark, he is also an organic being and thus some of his own views and visions may grow or change slightly through the course of time as he himself shares them with his disciples?
If you haven't read "Christ, a crisis in the Life of God" this puts an interesting perspective on the way the YHWH of the old testament is actually growing and changing alongside his creation, and Jesus is part of that god's own development.
Your lectures are awesome, thank you :-)
Can't believe you believe this!!! God is eternal. He is one. There is nothing comparable to him. He is perfection.
The act of learning is human. Not the perfect God who created man, the magnificence of the universe and everything within it.
These are my neighbors. They are ridiculous, and harmless
Wrong. Hillary Clinton won the State of Washington in 2016. Of that State's 12 electoral votes, HRC received 8 and 4 defected. Of the four, 3 voted for Colin Powell, and one Native American elector voted for a Native American from Washington State. Zero electoral votes for Trump, who received about 36% of the State's popular vote.
daniel letterman - I don’t think so. These people are new age spiritualist hippies, not evangelical Christians.
It's not the gods you can be in fear of it's the crazy god worshippers you must fear!
I don't know therefore I can't and I shouldn't say anything about the things I'm unaware of. An Atheist is simply a rationalist and a philosopher who dismisses religious faith as an inaccurate and insufficient method of learning about the reality around us.
Where did this talk take place. Does anyone know what the RSE is?
Read the description.
I really wanted that answer for the question about enki and enlil
Why, it was stupid. Completely off topic. He is a new testament scholar.
Why did Professor Ehrman choose to speak before this Cult?
Why not?
I believe it's called : earning money :)