For a different and much faster breakdown of Chase Mechanics, Paul Fricker (co-author of the game) has a video you should check out as well. ua-cam.com/video/lseqmi2ckW4/v-deo.html
@@thelastmotel I hashed together a version of these rules using Seth's vid and interpreted them for a completely different system and it definitely has a lot going for it. CoC 7e are probably worth getting for these rules alone. The great thing about rules like these are they can be bolted on across systems without much trouble.
I actually modified The Haunting scenario to use the chase rules. After the bed knocked one of the Investigators out the window, it then proceeded to chase the other investigator. The mere concept of a metal bedframe twisting and warping to squeeze through the door was enough to put fear into him. The fact they both failed a Dex check to go down the stairs ended up with the investigator flat on their back and the bed crashing down on top of him. It didn't really do much damage, but it did get them out of the house to go do some investigating...😀
The first roleplaying game I'm aware of using specialised chase rules is the James Bond RPG released by Victory Games in 1983. They use quite a clever betting mechanic to decide who acts when. The one in the chase willing to take the biggest negative modifier acts first, something that can become really important and decide whether or not the one being chased gets away or get caught. It works the same way regardless whether the chase is done on foot, in cars or fighter jets. Simple but wery neat.
Yep, came here 47 seconds into the video to pour out the love on JB007. A brilliant system. Still holds up today. Needs to be redone - without the licence if needs be. More ppl should be able to play this
@@snate56 yeah, Shadows of Yog Sothoth came with a whole book full of handouts... You could do it yourself these days on a computer but it's a lot of work
@@michaelcottle6270 There was a Retro clone made using the JB007 system a few years back. It was on Drive Thru, unfortunately I can't remember what it was called right now.
@@Alric66 The retro clone is called "Classified", I actually found it in a forum post while I was researching TTRPG chase mechanics (which is how I ended up here) :D
This video is a godsend...Great-one-send. No matter how many times I review the rules for these chase mechanics, they always elude me, come the half-hour before a session. Thank you, Seth, for helping me and my players make sense of this. There are so many engaging and functional mechanics in CoC that translate well into other systems, and the chase mechanics are no exception!
Pathfinder has chase rules that are virtually the same, actually I've notice this kind of system in a few games. I think they can be traced back to Skill Tests from Star Wars Saga Edition where chases were one of the examples given.
I’ll be honest I almost never make use of chases in RPGs as I’ve had bad experiences in the past (usually lots of wasted time coupled with headache inducing mathematics), but you’ve sold me on the concept! I’ll try & crowbar a scene into my next session...I hope my players don’t read this!
To the other systems mentioned, I'll add the 1984 Adventures of Indiana Jones RPG from TSR. This was designed by David "Zeb" Cook, author of many classic titles, including Dwellers in the Forbidden City. The chase rules in this game were pretty great, can easily be transferred to other games, and of course Indiana Jones is right in line with Pulp Call of Cthulhu. Really enjoy your videos, skits, and good-humored approach to roleplaying. Have a great day!
I get so excited when a video by Seth comes out. They are probably some of my most anticipated videos. As someone who was convinced to buy the Call of Cthulhu books by you, as well as planning to put together and run their first campaign, these tutorial videos help so much, and I can't wait for the next one. Keep up the great work!
Worth noting (because you mentioned CoC is the only system you're aware of that contains dedicated Chase rules) that Savage Worlds : Adventure Edition by Pinnacle Entertainment also has chase rules in their main rulebook. I'm excited that more game systems seem to be adding these, as they can be a really dynamic scene to add!
Finally was able to start up a campaign after 15 years (missed a while two editions lol). My players are all college students who are part of the UFO Club set in 1966, and they are heading towards an internship in LA taking route 66 to see the sites. I totally added Jack the NPC as their cool guy hippy older student who is the head of the club, I used him to inform the players how to investigate stuff or just other little hints if I feel they are getting a bit stuck. Hope Jack doesn't mind I made him into a stoner conspiracy theorist lol!
After watching this video i brainstormed for a bit and i came up with an idea of a chase scene that maybe you people would like The scenario could be any delimited space with various turns and hallways, could be an haunted hospital. The enemy's catch is that it can only go to places that are dark, but it can teleport to those places, once the beast is encountered, and the chases begin, it will spend it's action points in attacking the players using telepathy or something scary but not deadly, then, when the players make a big stretch from it, in a crossroad of hallways(idk how else i can say it) the light would flicker and a lightbulb right in front of the group breaks as the creature appears there, making them make a turn or if they try to brute force their way through, they would take way more damage. You could use my suggestion of telepathy powers to transform a organized hospital in a mess of thrown beds and leaks and various other hazzards. If you don't want the mission of the chase to be simply run away, make some device, could be a walkie-talkie or a wide tv for modern scenarios to give instructions to a room with an ally that could stop the creature or an object that offer protection for limited time, etc. Hope i gave you a good idea! :)
Hello, I wanted to take a moment to say thank you. These series are awesome and I love the way you put out your thoughts about the game. Your homebrew rules are great and I can't wait to actually get the keeper's rulebook!
I also tend to adapt it's simple AoE "targets affected" mechanic to other RPGs for theater of the mind. Perhaps also using cards 1-10, or whatever combo required, to determine & keep track of everyone's Initiative too. Hell, there are many good things in Savage Worlds.
Yeah, hate to chime in so late, but like many have said there are a number of games that have chase rules. All the Star Wars rpgs have had chase rules (from West End Games D6 Star Wars to the current version). Mutants and Mastermind's also has chase rules. I know there are others as well (I believe the old TSR Top Secret had chase rules).
Another great video Just started CoC as a keeper. Been playing all sorts of RPGs in the past (D&D, Worls of Darkness, Shadowrun, Gurps...) but this feels different and fresh to me. And your videos have been a great help. Thank you!
Yes!!! Chases look like so much fun! I ran my first successful CoC game last Friday and will be continuing our investigations next Friday. We’re going to do our first chase then. This video really helped clear some things up about it for me. Thanks!
one interesting use for chase rules is car races. I was just describing to someone how I would do a near or far future race (ala the Super NES game F-Zero), where I would use the chase rules from this game. Each hazard would be a turn in the track, and barriers would be things that players did before hand, like sabotaging cars or setting up hazards in the track. If racers caught up with each other, they could then try to knock each other off the track, forcing them to have to waste an entire series of movements getting back on to it before they could continue.
11:40 If you ask me, the similarity between Seth & Jack is beyond superficial... I think they are probably related... So _I_ suspect Seth fudged the rolls and LET Jack escape. Pretty bad rping... {yes, I'm kidding}
Thank you very much for the overview of the CoC chase rules, it's been really well explained and conveied well how good they can work in various situations. I don't play CoC myself, but from the looks of it, these rules should be rather easily adoptable to other TTRPG systems as well. Will definitely give it a try! :D Also, could people please stop mentioning there are other (or earlier) systems have chase rules as well? I think 3 years of the same comments made that clear already, and since most comments don't explain *how* they are different (or work better), it's really not that helpful to know...
I'm so glad you've made this video explaining this. I've read and re-read chases and I still couldn't get my head around it. Thanks for making it simpler!
If it helps... GURPS and D&D work fairly well (surprisingly enough) stat and skill mechanic wise, so WITHOUT a lot of math. If you're interested in "personalizing" the movement of PC's, according to GURPS (Third ed. Revised) (HT+DX)/4=Basic Move SO in D&D-ese, it would be (Con + Dex) /4... OR you could arguably use Str instead of Con (depending on GM's fiat, phase of the moon, other narrative reasons)... lolz. In D&D games where I wanted to manage chase scenes, that's what I usually went with... give or take some modifiers because obviously Dwarves and Gnomes are going to have some trouble racing against Humans, Elves, or Ogres by some measure... just try not to get to nonsensical about it... I often employed a height-mod'... Arbitrarily, I went with 5 feet tall as my basic average... PC's at 5ft had a mod' of 1. Above 5 ft. got a +.2/ft. AND below 5ft got a -.2 /ft... SO a 4 ft tall PC would have a modifier of "Basic Move" x .8 AND a six foot PC had a modifier of "Basic Move" x 1.2 ... in hexes or meters... or whatever "clicks" are on your map as the need and scale requires... We kept the math relatively simple, so do-able, and once the mechanical part was done, the antics could definitely begin! ;o)
Call of Cthulhu isn't the only game with chase rules! GURPS 4e introduced some pretty good chase rules in the book Action 2: Exploits. While I haven't had much practice with them myself, on paper they are pretty straight forward. The rules are good for action games, but can really be applied to any game where a chase scene is needed.
I really appreciate your suggestion, of spreading out the potential chase-paths to avoid obstacles or get shortcuts and stuff :D That's a thing I was pondering about since I read about that rules.
I was enjoying a shot of Jack the NPC's character sheet at 3:44. 80 APP, really? Bit OP, guess that's why he survived so long. I thought it amusing he was a private detective with such a small DEX. :)
Great breakdown of the chase rules. This video is essential viewing for gaming groups that think their games could potentially include a chase scene. I would add that I think a whiteboard that the Keeper could use to illustrate the progress of the chase through the chase line could also be a valuable asset.
Chases are the way I usually get new players hooked on Call of Cthulhu. They're super fun, keep everybody on the edge of their seat and highlight it's difference from other Tabletop Systems like D&D that don't really have chase mechanics beyond "I use my full movement to follow him". After I run a one-shot with a chase or two for newcomers it's usually the thing they talk about the most afterwards.
I'm pretty sure Delta Green has chase rules. I'd could have misremembered but I'm pretty sure they are there. Also, Spycraft had chase rules since chase is a staple of the spy genre and they had classes that worked well in a chase.
The oldest chase rules I know are in the Indiana Jones RPG from TSR (1984,) which have a sort of flow chart you move around in, with spaces in the chart having events. It was a little weird.
Helpful. I ran a chase that I was not happy with at all the last time we played, and this helps clear some of my confusion up. I'll go back and read the examples carefully; definitely feel like I missed some things when I tried to apply it (admittedly, pretty ad hoc at the time). Thanks as always for the excellent content!
This series has been so helpful in introducing me to Call of Cthulhu, and the channel as a whole is just amazing! I’m currently preparing my first ever Call of Cthulhu adventure as a dm while also introducing my friends to the game itself, we’re all veteran dnd players and this is just the thing to give us a new and exciting activity for get-togethers. This video in particular was very helpful with a scene I’ve prepared where the party must escape from a Dhole in an abandoned mineshaft riding away on a mine cart. Seth, if you ever read this, one again, I LOVE your channel and it’s easily one of my favorites on UA-cam. I sincerely thank you for your work and service to your fans. Have a great day :)
I currently do have both a Call of Cthulhu and D&D chase prepared, so I can say: D&D also has a section on chases (but not an entire chapter), though the rules are SIGNIFICANTLY more simplistic and can be boiled down to these points: - You can run fast as long as you have stamina (based on constitution) - random obstacles can appear - you can attempt hide to leave the chase The simplicity and randomness makes the chases in D&D very easy to prepare for me, but are also very superficial and easily boring. Call of Cthulhu's rules on chases however are quite fun, but also easily to mess up or have difficulties preparing and feel a little weird with the locations. I didn't actually get to run either one of them yet for my players though so maybe my opinion is not exactly accurate for now.
I like to keep things tense, so if a Participant isn't going to hit any Barriers or Hazards, I have the Participant in the chase roll for CON if they're running in a straight line or DEX if they're turning a corner etc, and treat it like the roll at the start; +1 MOV on an extreme success and -1 MOV on a fail (to minimum of 1).
I haven't run the chase rules in CoC, I have however run the ones in Savage Worlds using a Dark Young in the Deadlands setting...For those who do not know, the Whatley family has a "presence" in Deadlands as well and I thought, hell let's just bring in a cult of the black goat of the woods too. The ensuing chase with a cult leader telling the Dark young to "Fetch the interloopers, my pretty!" was all kinds if fun. Overall chases in RPGs seem very mechanical and may be so when you run them at first, but in the long run its very fun.
This looks like such a great mechanic, and I barely see any resources available to support it. A book of pre-built chases across different environments and different travel modes would be an amazing tool. I guess if I want one, I better start writing it.
This chase method seems interesting, as someone who has not too much experience with campaigns yet is eager to make one themselves, I would love to use these!
Seth Im really enjoying your videos. I have a homebrew campaign based on the runequest rules, which allows easy merging of call of cthulhu. It is a fantasy rpg set in the age of sail, but I have a background undertone of the coc mythos that keeps interacting with my players as they adventure around in my world. Works really well and my players enjoy it immensely. They've learnt to really hate Nyarlethotep and his worshippers.
Seth your videos are the best and have helped me run better Call of Cthulhu games. I look forward to your new additions each week. We've enjoyed the CoC 7e chase rules in my campaign and after watching your video it looks like I've been doing them right! For a great set of RPG chase rules you should check out Victory Games old James Bond RPG (published in the 80s). The JB RPG rules are the best set of chase rules I've come across, always a blast to run. Thanks for the great content.
Adding the Benny Hill theme is not enough! You also have to speed the film up by about fifteen percent. It makes ANY thing funny. Just check out The Passion of the Benny Hill if you have any doubts.
I really like these rules. The only other system I know that has chase rules is Through the Breach, but those rules can be used for a variety of situations. I think I will try to combine these rules for chases in other systems
The only other RPG that I know of, off the top of my head, that has chase rules is TIME LORD, a 1991 Doctor Who RPG from Virgin Publishing. Great little game.
I've seen Chase rules in a few RPGs. The most recent ones I recollect reading, besides the latest CoC, is Shadowrun, Feng Shui 2, and Savage Worlds. A few others also have abstracted 'zone' combat rules for vehicles, which essentially does the same thing. I thought the chase rules in CoC made a lot of sense. Although they were a bit crunchy, being a special rule. I recall thinking those in Feng Shui 2 as being the lightest and smoothest, but that tends to be the focus of that RPG system despite all the crazy stuff you can do in it.
Several other examples have been mentioned in the comments already, but D&D 4E covered chases under their Skill Challenge mechanics, GURPS had at least a couple of different chase mechanics in various splatbooks over the years, and I think every iteration of Star Wars RPG that I've seen had some type of chase rules.
On the mention of no other chase rules, specifically car chases, I do know that Fantasy Flight Games' (Now owned/published by Ulisses Spiele North America) Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader rpg had pretty decent rules for both space ship, flight based and ground vehicle chases.
FYI, Spycraft also had pretty solid chase rules set up specifically for a variety of chases. I think I like CoC's a bit better though, as they require a little less work for the players.
d20 Modern had chase rules. Not coincidentally, I think, the d20 CoC book has chase rules. I think d20 Star Wars had them, too (well before Saga). Pathfinder has some chase rules in either the Core or GameMastery Guide, and then they got fleshed out in detail in a later splat book.
Also yes, imagine a bunch a marbles just randomly getting tossed into the path or the party hopping into a car only to have a deep one hop in a car as well to pursue them. It would be pretty hilarious
I have several games that have chase rules. Games that have chase rules tend to be skill based instead of level/class based. The easiest system I've seen is 7th sea 1st ed.
Actually, just a minor correction, Pathfinder specified chase rules in the "Ultimate Combat" which came out a few years before 7th edition Call of Cthulu, granted the rules are basically unusable and not very good, but technically it was the first.
Interesting. Now, to be clear, I never said CoC was the first, or even only, system to have Chase rules. I said it was the only one that I was "aware of". Which, at the time of my recording it, was 100% true. It's almost as if I put that little clause in there just in case someone was going to drop an "Actually..." on me. So far, the oldest that I've now heard of was from a spy game from the 80's.
Seth Skorkowsky hey just a minor correction as I stated, and if you're talking about Spycraft... yeah I think it did have chase rules as well, though I actually like CoC's Chase rules so much however I actually translated them into my system of choice so it's clear that one is my favorite
What i personally dislike about chasing rules is how relative movement works. Let's say Bob (mov 8) is chased by a monster (mov 10). The monster has 3 actions per turn, and is thus 3 times faster than Bob. But if the chase includes Jim (mov 6), Bob (mov 8) and the monster (mov10), then suddenly Bob is three times faster than Jim, and the monster is 5 times faster than Jim, but only 5/3 times faster than Bob (while he was 3 times faster than Bob in the first example). What i'm saying is : the fact that Jim is slow, makes Bob faster in comparison to the monster, which doesn't really make much sense.
Hm, but is 'relative speed' really relevant here? Sure, it looks weird if you look at the ratio of movement actions in your example (1:3 for mov 8|10 vs. 1:3:5 for mov 6|8|10). However, the absolute difference in movement actions doesn't change, e.g. the monster would still have two movement actions more than Bob each turn, and since effects/other actions work on a 'plus/minus X movement actions' basis, this shouldn't mechanically change anything. It only becomes problematic once anything works 'per turn'. Basically, the system sets a 'base speed' (i.e. the speed of the slowest person in the race) which gets excluded for easier handling by adjusting the length of a turn. If you ignore this when looking at relative speeds, this has to look weird, but mechanically it doesn't affect any outcome. Or is there anything I overlooked? Sorry, I don't want to be combative and haven't tried the system so far, just trying to wrap my head around it. Your counterpoint seemed rather grave at first, but I'm not sure how relevant it really is?
I don't know how others do it, but I setup a task chain - assuming one Investigator is left at the bottom of a wall and the baddie is closing in, I'd allow a DEX check from someone at the top to reach down and grab their hand and add a Bonus die to the stuck character's Hazard check, and maybe add another Bonus if there's opportunity for another Investigator or NPC to assist, or if the player thinks to also use the environment for mechanical advantage ie, a rope or branch, belt etc.
I think that I understand how to run a chase, but I’m not sure on the execution. Are chases something you plan out before a session or do you do it on the fly? Because it seems like it would take a while to setup if you did it on the fly (which would be boring for the players just sitting there while you map it out), but if you plan beforehand then you gotta make sure that the players are gonna flee when you’ve planned (which seems railroady in a bad way).
Some you can plan out before, such as, "Once the PCs arrive at the house they'll see the a robber leap out of a window and race off" if they give chase you have a pre-prepared Chase Tracker with obstacles all ready to go, but most chases are going to be done on the fly. Setting up the Chase Tracker is pretty quick.
Thanks for the chase overview; excellent stuff as usual. I found the rules in this section intimidating and fortunately the one scenario I've run (keepered?), Edge of Darkness, didn't call for chases. From your description it seems as though chases on-the-fly are going to be quite tricky to put together and a prepared chase might never happen - players being players. Is the keeper intended to break the tension, "Hang on guys, I've just got to throw in some obstacles", or is it easier than it looks?
Prepared chases can happen, but most will be improvised. Mostly I do it by thinking what skills I want them to use like Jump, Dex, Climb, Str, and I place appropriate obstacles in the way like fences, mud, traffic, etc. Or just thinking "what is likely there" and throwing it up and by the time they get to them I know what skill/stat they'll need to cross or bypass it. It's not too hard.
I'm a new keeper and these video's have been extremely helpfull. I know this is like 5 years old but i do have a question about a possible houserule. I haven't played with chase rules often but with the way the rules work there is always going to be one poor person who only gets a single movement action and won't be able to do much. So i was wondering if adding a free movement action to everyone that can only be used to move locations would give these players more options. in addition i also want to make each location move action cost one more then the last one you did on a turn. So first location cost one move action, second 2, etc. To avoid people just sprinting through everything. Do you think these would be good additions or should i just stick to the core rules? Thanks in advance if you end up reading this
You can do that. Only thing to consider is cases where the person being chased has to get to 'X Location' to escape, adding 1 Movement action to everyone means they might get to the end location faster.
Here's my question for you. I am starting CoC with my group and we are pretty big D&D players. My fear is that they will end up trying to stay their ground and fight what ever monster I throw at them. Is their any way you recommend as a lorekeeper that they need to get away from what ever is hunting them?
TheSpookyMage Kill a PC. Kill them often. Sooner or later they'll realize "oh shit I may need to run away!" Explain at the beginning that this isn't D&D, there are no clerics and human are fragile, squishy things. Let them know combat is lethal. Then don't pull punches. Have the NPCs dodge and duck and use terrain to avoid taking damage. When they start losing have them retreat like normal people do. If they follow or they keep fighting when it is clear that they need to fall back then kill a PC. Show them the consequences. That is how it worked out for me.
Explain beforehand that this will not be anything like D&D. Also, having a NPC companion with them that can help steer them toward investigation and will most likely die as an example of said horror can be useful. If they still try to fight the big-bad, then they can't say you didn't give them plenty of warning.
Tell your players repeatedly, that they are normal, average, humans. One bite, bullet or club hit can kill. They are not adventuring heros. They are sharp witted investigators! It sounds harsh, but that's the beauty of the game... achieving goals by your wits.
Agreed with Mike Mason. Pulp Cthulhu is more action-packed and survivable than regular CoC. It's a great add-on and perfect for players who miss the ass-kicking parts of D&D.
Advise them of how deadly it is beforehand. If they don’t listen eventually kill them. Cthulhu is about madness and investigation. He them doing that, the fights will take of themselves.
They can. Usually requires a Move Action or simply a Skill Check depending on what the hazard is. such as running through a warehouse and knocking something off as you run past might be a simple Skill Check and cost no Move, but stopping and cutting the rope you just crossed or locking the door behind you would cost a Move Action. They can also Hide once they're out of direct sight of the pursuer and if the pursuer misses to Spot them when they reach that location, they'll just keep on moving allowing the PC to escape or ambush once they've passed.
These rules would cary over to other RPGs like dnd really easily it sounds like. Home brew chase rules for dnd have always been a little janky. The best so far I've seen is to repurpose the rules from the dinosaur race from tomb of annihilation.
![Top 5 Call of Cthulhu One Shots [For New & Veteran Players]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FiHWYwPAT50/mqdefault.jpg)
For a different and much faster breakdown of Chase Mechanics, Paul Fricker (co-author of the game) has a video you should check out as well. ua-cam.com/video/lseqmi2ckW4/v-deo.html
Although Fricker's explanation is more concise than your own, I think your video is much better at building excitement for the chase mechanics.
Do the players see the visual layout of the chase with each of its hazards/barriers?
@@gommechops Depends how you run your game. If you use minis and maps and terrain and so on, then yes, but if you use TOTM, then no.
@@thelastmotel I hashed together a version of these rules using Seth's vid and interpreted them for a completely different system and it definitely has a lot going for it. CoC 7e are probably worth getting for these rules alone. The great thing about rules like these are they can be bolted on across systems without much trouble.
Sometimes you just need a good teacher and visual aides. I'm sold.
5:16 I agree, that rule is a bit weird. Being chased by a slower yet relentless monster is a great horror scenario
I actually modified The Haunting scenario to use the chase rules. After the bed knocked one of the Investigators out the window, it then proceeded to chase the other investigator. The mere concept of a metal bedframe twisting and warping to squeeze through the door was enough to put fear into him. The fact they both failed a Dex check to go down the stairs ended up with the investigator flat on their back and the bed crashing down on top of him. It didn't really do much damage, but it did get them out of the house to go do some investigating...😀
The first roleplaying game I'm aware of using specialised chase rules is the James Bond RPG released by Victory Games in 1983. They use quite a clever betting mechanic to decide who acts when. The one in the chase willing to take the biggest negative modifier acts first, something that can become really important and decide whether or not the one being chased gets away or get caught. It works the same way regardless whether the chase is done on foot, in cars or fighter jets. Simple but wery neat.
Yep, came here 47 seconds into the video to pour out the love on JB007. A brilliant system. Still holds up today. Needs to be redone - without the licence if needs be. More ppl should be able to play this
@@michaelcottle6270
Like CoC, I loved 007 because of its use of handouts! I dearly love these games that use handouts.
@@snate56 yeah, Shadows of Yog Sothoth came with a whole book full of handouts... You could do it yourself these days on a computer but it's a lot of work
@@michaelcottle6270 There was a Retro clone made using the JB007 system a few years back. It was on Drive Thru, unfortunately I can't remember what it was called right now.
@@Alric66 The retro clone is called "Classified", I actually found it in a forum post while I was researching TTRPG chase mechanics (which is how I ended up here) :D
This video is a godsend...Great-one-send. No matter how many times I review the rules for these chase mechanics, they always elude me, come the half-hour before a session. Thank you, Seth, for helping me and my players make sense of this. There are so many engaging and functional mechanics in CoC that translate well into other systems, and the chase mechanics are no exception!
So chase sequences are the most horrific and psychotic scooby doo moments ever? Cool.
I was glued to my seat washing this. Very cinematic.
I just bought the Keepers Book and I am going to start running for my D&D group. Thanks so much for all the amazing videos.
Gene Wade we played a CoC one off with my group, it was a blast and both the DM of that game and I fell in love with the system
How did it go?
someone asked about "a fun game mechanic for chase scenes" in a D&D facebook group and I sent them here!
that chase, be chased, chase situation sounded so scooby-dooy!
it's amazing!
Or Benny Hill
Once I heard "Like a horror movie" the rules made so much sense.
Pathfinder has chase rules that are virtually the same, actually I've notice this kind of system in a few games. I think they can be traced back to Skill Tests from Star Wars Saga Edition where chases were one of the examples given.
I’ll be honest I almost never make use of chases in RPGs as I’ve had bad experiences in the past (usually lots of wasted time coupled with headache inducing mathematics), but you’ve sold me on the concept! I’ll try & crowbar a scene into my next session...I hope my players don’t read this!
To the other systems mentioned, I'll add the 1984 Adventures of Indiana Jones RPG from TSR. This was designed by David "Zeb" Cook, author of many classic titles, including Dwellers in the Forbidden City. The chase rules in this game were pretty great, can easily be transferred to other games, and of course Indiana Jones is right in line with Pulp Call of Cthulhu. Really enjoy your videos, skits, and good-humored approach to roleplaying. Have a great day!
I get so excited when a video by Seth comes out. They are probably some of my most anticipated videos. As someone who was convinced to buy the Call of Cthulhu books by you, as well as planning to put together and run their first campaign, these tutorial videos help so much, and I can't wait for the next one. Keep up the great work!
Glad it's been helpful.
Worth noting (because you mentioned CoC is the only system you're aware of that contains dedicated Chase rules) that Savage Worlds : Adventure Edition by Pinnacle Entertainment also has chase rules in their main rulebook. I'm excited that more game systems seem to be adding these, as they can be a really dynamic scene to add!
Finally was able to start up a campaign after 15 years (missed a while two editions lol). My players are all college students who are part of the UFO Club set in 1966, and they are heading towards an internship in LA taking route 66 to see the sites. I totally added Jack the NPC as their cool guy hippy older student who is the head of the club, I used him to inform the players how to investigate stuff or just other little hints if I feel they are getting a bit stuck. Hope Jack doesn't mind I made him into a stoner conspiracy theorist lol!
Jack is honored to be a stoner conspiracy theorist. I hope you all have a great time with the campaign.
After watching this video i brainstormed for a bit and i came up with an idea of a chase scene that maybe you people would like
The scenario could be any delimited space with various turns and hallways, could be an haunted hospital.
The enemy's catch is that it can only go to places that are dark, but it can teleport to those places, once the beast is encountered, and the chases begin, it will spend it's action points in attacking the players using telepathy or something scary but not deadly, then, when the players make a big stretch from it, in a crossroad of hallways(idk how else i can say it) the light would flicker and a lightbulb right in front of the group breaks as the creature appears there, making them make a turn or if they try to brute force their way through, they would take way more damage.
You could use my suggestion of telepathy powers to transform a organized hospital in a mess of thrown beds and leaks and various other hazzards.
If you don't want the mission of the chase to be simply run away, make some device, could be a walkie-talkie or a wide tv for modern scenarios to give instructions to a room with an ally that could stop the creature or an object that offer protection for limited time, etc.
Hope i gave you a good idea! :)
Hello, I wanted to take a moment to say thank you. These series are awesome and I love the way you put out your thoughts about the game. Your homebrew rules are great and I can't wait to actually get the keeper's rulebook!
Thank you very much.
Thanks for this breakdown, Seth. I appreciate your time doing this. That makes it easier for us old dogs that are slightly resistant to change.
Savage Worlds has a Robust chase mechanic i like it
I was going to point this out, but you beat me to it.
And I did it anyway xD
I also tend to adapt it's simple AoE "targets affected" mechanic to other RPGs for theater of the mind. Perhaps also using cards 1-10, or whatever combo required, to determine & keep track of everyone's Initiative too.
Hell, there are many good things in Savage Worlds.
you also beat me to it too.
Savage Wolds is a better system for a pulp feeling game. in general
Yeah, hate to chime in so late, but like many have said there are a number of games that have chase rules. All the Star Wars rpgs have had chase rules (from West End Games D6 Star Wars to the current version). Mutants and Mastermind's also has chase rules. I know there are others as well (I believe the old TSR Top Secret had chase rules).
I’m coming over from D&D and was really confused reading the keepers guide. This really explained it very well. Thanks you!!
Another great video
Just started CoC as a keeper. Been playing all sorts of RPGs in the past (D&D, Worls of Darkness, Shadowrun, Gurps...) but this feels different and fresh to me. And your videos have been a great help. Thank you!
Yes!!! Chases look like so much fun! I ran my first successful CoC game last Friday and will be continuing our investigations next Friday. We’re going to do our first chase then. This video really helped clear some things up about it for me. Thanks!
one interesting use for chase rules is car races. I was just describing to someone how I would do a near or far future race (ala the Super NES game F-Zero), where I would use the chase rules from this game. Each hazard would be a turn in the track, and barriers would be things that players did before hand, like sabotaging cars or setting up hazards in the track. If racers caught up with each other, they could then try to knock each other off the track, forcing them to have to waste an entire series of movements getting back on to it before they could continue.
To be fair the Benny Hill Chase Theme requires at least one nurse in stockings and thats a whole other kind of roleplaying.
Carry On Cthulhu
@@keithparker1346 Oooh Matron!
11:40
If you ask me, the similarity between Seth & Jack is beyond superficial... I think they are probably related... So _I_ suspect Seth fudged the rolls and LET Jack escape.
Pretty bad rping...
{yes, I'm kidding}
Jeez. Using your house rule around still doing a chase when the investigator is faster makes so much sense! Thanks!
Thank you very much for the overview of the CoC chase rules, it's been really well explained and conveied well how good they can work in various situations. I don't play CoC myself, but from the looks of it, these rules should be rather easily adoptable to other TTRPG systems as well. Will definitely give it a try! :D
Also, could people please stop mentioning there are other (or earlier) systems have chase rules as well? I think 3 years of the same comments made that clear already, and since most comments don't explain *how* they are different (or work better), it's really not that helpful to know...
I'm so glad you've made this video explaining this. I've read and re-read chases and I still couldn't get my head around it. Thanks for making it simpler!
I may actually borrow this for my 5e game, thanks for the in depth explanation
If it helps...
GURPS and D&D work fairly well (surprisingly enough) stat and skill mechanic wise, so WITHOUT a lot of math. If you're interested in "personalizing" the movement of PC's, according to GURPS (Third ed. Revised) (HT+DX)/4=Basic Move
SO in D&D-ese, it would be (Con + Dex) /4... OR you could arguably use Str instead of Con (depending on GM's fiat, phase of the moon, other narrative reasons)... lolz.
In D&D games where I wanted to manage chase scenes, that's what I usually went with... give or take some modifiers because obviously Dwarves and Gnomes are going to have some trouble racing against Humans, Elves, or Ogres by some measure... just try not to get to nonsensical about it...
I often employed a height-mod'... Arbitrarily, I went with 5 feet tall as my basic average... PC's at 5ft had a mod' of 1. Above 5 ft. got a +.2/ft. AND below 5ft got a -.2 /ft... SO a 4 ft tall PC would have a modifier of "Basic Move" x .8 AND a six foot PC had a modifier of "Basic Move" x 1.2 ... in hexes or meters... or whatever "clicks" are on your map as the need and scale requires...
We kept the math relatively simple, so do-able, and once the mechanical part was done, the antics could definitely begin! ;o)
Call of Cthulhu isn't the only game with chase rules! GURPS 4e introduced some pretty good chase rules in the book Action 2: Exploits. While I haven't had much practice with them myself, on paper they are pretty straight forward. The rules are good for action games, but can really be applied to any game where a chase scene is needed.
Really well explained series. Ill be watching them over & over I am sure 👍 Your dedication is appreciated !
That example chase with Jack and the Deep One, is way more stressful to watch than it has any right to be.
I really appreciate your suggestion, of spreading out the potential chase-paths to avoid obstacles or get shortcuts and stuff :D That's a thing I was pondering about since I read about that rules.
I was enjoying a shot of Jack the NPC's character sheet at 3:44.
80 APP, really? Bit OP, guess that's why he survived so long.
I thought it amusing he was a private detective with such a small DEX. :)
Great breakdown of the chase rules. This video is essential viewing for gaming groups that think their games could potentially include a chase scene.
I would add that I think a whiteboard that the Keeper could use to illustrate the progress of the chase through the chase line could also be a valuable asset.
Chases are the way I usually get new players hooked on Call of Cthulhu. They're super fun, keep everybody on the edge of their seat and highlight it's difference from other Tabletop Systems like D&D that don't really have chase mechanics beyond "I use my full movement to follow him". After I run a one-shot with a chase or two for newcomers it's usually the thing they talk about the most afterwards.
I'm pretty sure Delta Green has chase rules. I'd could have misremembered but I'm pretty sure they are there. Also, Spycraft had chase rules since chase is a staple of the spy genre and they had classes that worked well in a chase.
Double checked, Delta Green has chase rules though it's called Pursuit.
Pathfinder has rules for chases over great distances too I believe
It may brake verisimilitude, but Yakety Sax is sometimes necessary.
The oldest chase rules I know are in the Indiana Jones RPG from TSR (1984,) which have a sort of flow chart you move around in, with spaces in the chart having events. It was a little weird.
Aces and Eights has great chase rules, for outrunning the law or leading your posse to catch them outlaws!
(Just an honorable mention)
thanks seth this really clarifies things and i'm adapting this to system to delta green,
Helpful. I ran a chase that I was not happy with at all the last time we played, and this helps clear some of my confusion up. I'll go back and read the examples carefully; definitely feel like I missed some things when I tried to apply it (admittedly, pretty ad hoc at the time). Thanks as always for the excellent content!
This series has been so helpful in introducing me to Call of Cthulhu, and the channel as a whole is just amazing! I’m currently preparing my first ever Call of Cthulhu adventure as a dm while also introducing my friends to the game itself, we’re all veteran dnd players and this is just the thing to give us a new and exciting activity for get-togethers. This video in particular was very helpful with a scene I’ve prepared where the party must escape from a Dhole in an abandoned mineshaft riding away on a mine cart. Seth, if you ever read this, one again, I LOVE your channel and it’s easily one of my favorites on UA-cam. I sincerely thank you for your work and service to your fans. Have a great day :)
Thank you. Good luck with the game.
OMG that scenario at the end sounds so fun.
James Bond 007 by Victory Games and Scared Stiff by The Guildhall Press both have fun chase rules and are great games.
The DMG (5e) has explicit rules for chase sequences that has a lot of variety.
It was worth the wait.
I currently do have both a Call of Cthulhu and D&D chase prepared, so I can say: D&D also has a section on chases (but not an entire chapter), though the rules are SIGNIFICANTLY more simplistic and can be boiled down to these points:
- You can run fast as long as you have stamina (based on constitution)
- random obstacles can appear
- you can attempt hide to leave the chase
The simplicity and randomness makes the chases in D&D very easy to prepare for me, but are also very superficial and easily boring. Call of Cthulhu's rules on chases however are quite fun, but also easily to mess up or have difficulties preparing and feel a little weird with the locations.
I didn't actually get to run either one of them yet for my players though so maybe my opinion is not exactly accurate for now.
I like to keep things tense, so if a Participant isn't going to hit any Barriers or Hazards, I have the Participant in the chase roll for CON if they're running in a straight line or DEX if they're turning a corner etc, and treat it like the roll at the start; +1 MOV on an extreme success and -1 MOV on a fail (to minimum of 1).
Savage Worlds - has extremly good chase rules! And you can use it to play astonishing tales of pulp - I love it! :) :)
I haven't run the chase rules in CoC, I have however run the ones in Savage Worlds using a Dark Young in the Deadlands setting...For those who do not know, the Whatley family has a "presence" in Deadlands as well and I thought, hell let's just bring in a cult of the black goat of the woods too. The ensuing chase with a cult leader telling the Dark young to "Fetch the interloopers, my pretty!" was all kinds if fun. Overall chases in RPGs seem very mechanical and may be so when you run them at first, but in the long run its very fun.
If you want to see really effective chase rules, check out the old James Bond RPG
Another great video.
This looks like such a great mechanic, and I barely see any resources available to support it. A book of pre-built chases across different environments and different travel modes would be an amazing tool. I guess if I want one, I better start writing it.
This chase method seems interesting, as someone who has not too much experience with campaigns yet is eager to make one themselves, I would love to use these!
Seth Im really enjoying your videos. I have a homebrew campaign based on the runequest rules, which allows easy merging of call of cthulhu. It is a fantasy rpg set in the age of sail, but I have a background undertone of the coc mythos that keeps interacting with my players as they adventure around in my world. Works really well and my players enjoy it immensely. They've learnt to really hate Nyarlethotep and his worshippers.
Great summary! I’m actually about to use the chase rules for the first time in my next session.
Seth your videos are the best and have helped me run better Call of Cthulhu games. I look forward to your new additions each week. We've enjoyed the CoC 7e chase rules in my campaign and after watching your video it looks like I've been doing them right! For a great set of RPG chase rules you should check out Victory Games old James Bond RPG (published in the 80s). The JB RPG rules are the best set of chase rules I've come across, always a blast to run. Thanks for the great content.
Adding the Benny Hill theme is not enough!
You also have to speed the film up by about fifteen percent. It makes ANY thing funny. Just check out The Passion of the Benny Hill if you have any doubts.
I think Shadowrun 5e had chase rules, but like most of the crunch that Catalyst came up with, they were a complete broken disaster.
I really like these rules. The only other system I know that has chase rules is Through the Breach, but those rules can be used for a variety of situations. I think I will try to combine these rules for chases in other systems
The only other RPG that I know of, off the top of my head, that has chase rules is TIME LORD, a 1991 Doctor Who RPG from Virgin Publishing. Great little game.
I've seen Chase rules in a few RPGs.
The most recent ones I recollect reading, besides the latest CoC, is Shadowrun, Feng Shui 2, and Savage Worlds. A few others also have abstracted 'zone' combat rules for vehicles, which essentially does the same thing.
I thought the chase rules in CoC made a lot of sense. Although they were a bit crunchy, being a special rule. I recall thinking those in Feng Shui 2 as being the lightest and smoothest, but that tends to be the focus of that RPG system despite all the crazy stuff you can do in it.
There is another RPG that has chase rules, but I can't recall it off the top of my head. When I figure it out I will post it here (if I remember).
Victorian Gothic has chase rules as well. They use what's called Gains.
Cool, looking forward to the Sanity video!
Several other examples have been mentioned in the comments already, but D&D 4E covered chases under their Skill Challenge mechanics, GURPS had at least a couple of different chase mechanics in various splatbooks over the years, and I think every iteration of Star Wars RPG that I've seen had some type of chase rules.
Rolemaster Pulp has a solid chase ruleset, as well.
On the mention of no other chase rules, specifically car chases, I do know that Fantasy Flight Games' (Now owned/published by Ulisses Spiele North America) Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader rpg had pretty decent rules for both space ship, flight based and ground vehicle chases.
The 7th Sea rpg also has rules specifically for chases (at least the first edition, which is the one I've played).
FYI, Spycraft also had pretty solid chase rules set up specifically for a variety of chases. I think I like CoC's a bit better though, as they require a little less work for the players.
d20 Modern had chase rules. Not coincidentally, I think, the d20 CoC book has chase rules. I think d20 Star Wars had them, too (well before Saga). Pathfinder has some chase rules in either the Core or GameMastery Guide, and then they got fleshed out in detail in a later splat book.
Do you think that it's work in a Scooby-Doo scenario? Where both investigators and monsters are randomly teleporting between locations?
Also yes, imagine a bunch a marbles just randomly getting tossed into the path or the party hopping into a car only to have a deep one hop in a car as well to pursue them. It would be pretty hilarious
DnD 5e has chase rules (I believe in the DMs guide). Vampire and World of Darkness has chase rules. But Im open to learn new ones.
What you just described are the same exact rules in the systems i just mentioned
James Bond 007: Role-Playing In Her Majesty's Secret Service from Victory Games in the '80s had chase rules. What's a Bond film w/o chases?!?
Cortex System has chase rules
Pathfinder has chase rules
I have several games that have chase rules. Games that have chase rules tend to be skill based instead of level/class based. The easiest system I've seen is 7th sea 1st ed.
Excellent
There are other systems with chase mechanics.
Thanks
Holy crap! Wow. Thank you very much.
The 5th edition Dungeon Masters guide does have chase rules, but they're very basic and only cover about three pages of the book.
Savage Worlds have special chase rules as well, but frankly my players and I never found them the best.
Actually, just a minor correction, Pathfinder specified chase rules in the "Ultimate Combat" which came out a few years before 7th edition Call of Cthulu, granted the rules are basically unusable and not very good, but technically it was the first.
Interesting. Now, to be clear, I never said CoC was the first, or even only, system to have Chase rules. I said it was the only one that I was "aware of". Which, at the time of my recording it, was 100% true. It's almost as if I put that little clause in there just in case someone was going to drop an "Actually..." on me. So far, the oldest that I've now heard of was from a spy game from the 80's.
Seth Skorkowsky hey just a minor correction as I stated, and if you're talking about Spycraft... yeah I think it did have chase rules as well, though I actually like CoC's Chase rules so much however I actually translated them into my system of choice so it's clear that one is my favorite
Savage Worlds did chase rules back in 2003
Savage Worlds has chase rules.
I believe Savage Worlds also has chase rules.
What i personally dislike about chasing rules is how relative movement works. Let's say Bob (mov 8) is chased by a monster (mov 10). The monster has 3 actions per turn, and is thus 3 times faster than Bob.
But if the chase includes Jim (mov 6), Bob (mov 8) and the monster (mov10), then suddenly Bob is three times faster than Jim, and the monster is 5 times faster than Jim, but only 5/3 times faster than Bob (while he was 3 times faster than Bob in the first example).
What i'm saying is : the fact that Jim is slow, makes Bob faster in comparison to the monster, which doesn't really make much sense.
Hm, but is 'relative speed' really relevant here?
Sure, it looks weird if you look at the ratio of movement actions in your example (1:3 for mov 8|10 vs. 1:3:5 for mov 6|8|10). However, the absolute difference in movement actions doesn't change, e.g. the monster would still have two movement actions more than Bob each turn, and since effects/other actions work on a 'plus/minus X movement actions' basis, this shouldn't mechanically change anything. It only becomes problematic once anything works 'per turn'.
Basically, the system sets a 'base speed' (i.e. the speed of the slowest person in the race) which gets excluded for easier handling by adjusting the length of a turn. If you ignore this when looking at relative speeds, this has to look weird, but mechanically it doesn't affect any outcome.
Or is there anything I overlooked? Sorry, I don't want to be combative and haven't tried the system so far, just trying to wrap my head around it. Your counterpoint seemed rather grave at first, but I'm not sure how relevant it really is?
Is there a mechanic to allow PCs to help each other get past hazards/barriers?
I don't know how others do it, but I setup a task chain - assuming one Investigator is left at the bottom of a wall and the baddie is closing in, I'd allow a DEX check from someone at the top to reach down and grab their hand and add a Bonus die to the stuck character's Hazard check, and maybe add another Bonus if there's opportunity for another Investigator or NPC to assist, or if the player thinks to also use the environment for mechanical advantage ie, a rope or branch, belt etc.
I think that I understand how to run a chase, but I’m not sure on the execution.
Are chases something you plan out before a session or do you do it on the fly? Because it seems like it would take a while to setup if you did it on the fly (which would be boring for the players just sitting there while you map it out), but if you plan beforehand then you gotta make sure that the players are gonna flee when you’ve planned (which seems railroady in a bad way).
Some you can plan out before, such as, "Once the PCs arrive at the house they'll see the a robber leap out of a window and race off" if they give chase you have a pre-prepared Chase Tracker with obstacles all ready to go, but most chases are going to be done on the fly. Setting up the Chase Tracker is pretty quick.
Thanks for the chase overview; excellent stuff as usual. I found the rules in this section intimidating and fortunately the one scenario I've run (keepered?), Edge of Darkness, didn't call for chases. From your description it seems as though chases on-the-fly are going to be quite tricky to put together and a prepared chase might never happen - players being players. Is the keeper intended to break the tension, "Hang on guys, I've just got to throw in some obstacles", or is it easier than it looks?
Prepared chases can happen, but most will be improvised. Mostly I do it by thinking what skills I want them to use like Jump, Dex, Climb, Str, and I place appropriate obstacles in the way like fences, mud, traffic, etc. Or just thinking "what is likely there" and throwing it up and by the time they get to them I know what skill/stat they'll need to cross or bypass it. It's not too hard.
@@SSkorkowsky Great, thanks for getting back to me. I have to bite the bullet and just give it a go.
I'm a new keeper and these video's have been extremely helpfull.
I know this is like 5 years old but i do have a question about a possible houserule.
I haven't played with chase rules often but with the way the rules work there is always going to be one poor person who only gets a single movement action and won't be able to do much.
So i was wondering if adding a free movement action to everyone that can only be used to move locations would give these players more options. in addition i also want to make each location move action cost one more then the last one you did on a turn. So first location cost one move action, second 2, etc. To avoid people just sprinting through everything.
Do you think these would be good additions or should i just stick to the core rules? Thanks in advance if you end up reading this
You can do that. Only thing to consider is cases where the person being chased has to get to 'X Location' to escape, adding 1 Movement action to everyone means they might get to the end location faster.
@@SSkorkowsky Yeah, i was hoping to counteract that with the escalating cost of moving locations. Thanks for the answer!
Here's my question for you.
I am starting CoC with my group and we are pretty big D&D players. My fear is that they will end up trying to stay their ground and fight what ever monster I throw at them. Is their any way you recommend as a lorekeeper that they need to get away from what ever is hunting them?
TheSpookyMage Kill a PC. Kill them often. Sooner or later they'll realize "oh shit I may need to run away!" Explain at the beginning that this isn't D&D, there are no clerics and human are fragile, squishy things. Let them know combat is lethal. Then don't pull punches. Have the NPCs dodge and duck and use terrain to avoid taking damage. When they start losing have them retreat like normal people do. If they follow or they keep fighting when it is clear that they need to fall back then kill a PC. Show them the consequences.
That is how it worked out for me.
Explain beforehand that this will not be anything like D&D. Also, having a NPC companion with them that can help steer them toward investigation and will most likely die as an example of said horror can be useful. If they still try to fight the big-bad, then they can't say you didn't give them plenty of warning.
Tell your players repeatedly, that they are normal, average, humans. One bite, bullet or club hit can kill. They are not adventuring heros. They are sharp witted investigators! It sounds harsh, but that's the beauty of the game... achieving goals by your wits.
Agreed with Mike Mason. Pulp Cthulhu is more action-packed and survivable than regular CoC. It's a great add-on and perfect for players who miss the ass-kicking parts of D&D.
Advise them of how deadly it is beforehand. If they don’t listen eventually kill them. Cthulhu is about madness and investigation. He them doing that, the fights will take of themselves.
can player create hazard? like if they run thrue a wearhouse, they could stop to make so shelves fall in the way of the pursuer or something like that
They can. Usually requires a Move Action or simply a Skill Check depending on what the hazard is. such as running through a warehouse and knocking something off as you run past might be a simple Skill Check and cost no Move, but stopping and cutting the rope you just crossed or locking the door behind you would cost a Move Action. They can also Hide once they're out of direct sight of the pursuer and if the pursuer misses to Spot them when they reach that location, they'll just keep on moving allowing the PC to escape or ambush once they've passed.
@@SSkorkowsky ok, thank you. That is a cool system
@14:47 Are you suggesting MarioKart can be played in Call of Cthulhu?
These rules would cary over to other RPGs like dnd really easily it sounds like. Home brew chase rules for dnd have always been a little janky. The best so far I've seen is to repurpose the rules from the dinosaur race from tomb of annihilation.
Good ol yakitty sax. Works every time