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  • Опубліковано 28 лис 2024

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  • @SamGallagher
    @SamGallagher 9 років тому +33

    W2AEW, aka Alan, you're the KING of RF electronics videos. You hit the stuff I never totally understood, and in the best way. Rock on man

  • @pdxfunk
    @pdxfunk 11 місяців тому +5

    Fantastic video, thank you! Literally almost all the information on the internet is calling a 4 quadrant multiplier a ring modulator (It's not!!). This is the only video I've seen that gets it right.

  • @whawaii
    @whawaii 2 роки тому +6

    Thank you for this awesome presentation. As I was following the "Scope Overview" section where you list the 2 frequencies (7 MHz & 10 MHz) being combined, in my head I'm already calculating the resultant frequencies as 3 MHz & 17 MHz. You really threw me for loop at 2:08. I did a "What?!?" double-take & went back to hear that again when you stated that the upper frequency would be "13MHz". I started doubting my own RF & LO knowledge. Thankfully, the rest of the time you referred to the upper one as 17MHz. [You may wish to consider posting a notice of this misstatement.] Thank you.

  • @arthursgarage6550
    @arthursgarage6550 6 місяців тому +3

    Man, can I just say you are one hell of a good explainer of RF stuff

  • @Afrotechmods
    @Afrotechmods 10 років тому +32

    Another amazing video. Thank you Alan. If you are open to requests, I would love to see videos about mixers that use as few magnetics as possible with the goal of reducing PCB size and cost.

    • @absurdengineering
      @absurdengineering 3 роки тому +1

      A trifilar transformer like this for say 2-5GHz is the size of a 1210 capacitor if you wind it yourself. It’s even smaller - a small grain of rice - if you buy it and it costs pennies. Kinda hard to beat with discrete parts. The only way to beat it is with transistors on a chip: those are usually “free” compared to anything discrete. So if you really want low cost, use a dedicated mixer IC, or make an ASIC for your application that will replace other discretes with free transistors :)
      When pricing discrete parts, the cost is in raw materials and processing of each unit: a discrete run-of-the-mill transistor costs about as much as a discrete inductor or transistor of a similar size and volume. When costs matter that much, you’re talking hundreds of thousands or millions of units. At such scales, small magnetics cost about as much as small anything else, to a first order. Even the costs of inserting the component start to matter at such scales.
      For anything made at hobbyist scale, the cost of labor wipes everything else. PCB and other stuff is essentially free, and it costs more to ponder about it than to just put it on the board and move on if it does the job to spec you need :k)

  • @AppliedScience
    @AppliedScience 10 років тому +63

    Very helpful and well explained, Alan. Thanks!

  • @volvoC70II
    @volvoC70II 9 років тому +6

    You did a great work, making sketches and explaining how the mixer works. In these 10min I have learned more, then from reading books for 3 hours.
    Thanks!

  • @phoenixcrp
    @phoenixcrp 8 років тому +7

    The regular electronics hobbyist could not justify the expense of owning such a nice mdo piece of gear (around $14K tag price) I would like to thank you, Alan, for your generosity on producing videos like this one. The 50K frames in this video are priceless for many of your followers.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 років тому +15

      +Frank Acosta I do realize that I often use equipment that is outside the reach of the hobbyist. I am very lucky to be working for Tektronix and have access to this fantastic equipment. I hope that the use of this equipment serves to help viewers understand the topics and concepts being presented.

    • @StreuB1
      @StreuB1 8 років тому +1

      +w2aew It does....I am a design engineer with a big mechanical background and a "working" background on the electrical side of things. These videos have really expanded my scope of understanding. Especially in the industry I work in. It opens my eyes to a lot of the things my companies technology does.....metal detection.

    • @God-yb2cg
      @God-yb2cg 7 років тому

      I was actually thinking: "that scope would be a waste in my possession because I wouldn't know how to use half it's features"

  • @commandercortez
    @commandercortez 7 років тому +6

    I feel like it's worth mentioning that the non-linearity of the diodes is what makes the "cos(a+b) + cos(a-b)" (addition and subtraction of the input frequencies) components appear in the output signal.
    Otherwise, what we've created is just the sum of two signals sin(a) and sin(b), which can be achieved without the use of diodes or switching at all.

  • @hofjen66
    @hofjen66 6 років тому +13

    Your tutorials are the best I've ever seen on UA-cam! 73 de DL1WW!

  • @Whiskers1949
    @Whiskers1949 7 років тому +3

    I actually followed this all the way through.....a testament to your presentation. Thanks!

  • @ernestb.2377
    @ernestb.2377 Рік тому +1

    Thanks for the explanations! There are so much specific details in RF electronics..

  • @DantalionNl
    @DantalionNl 9 років тому

    I love how detailed and in depth your rf videos are, your'e the only one who makes decent videos about this its awesome! keep it up.

  • @habiks
    @habiks 8 років тому +66

    Did they name a school after you yet?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 років тому +25

      No, not yet.

  • @ozzyfromspace
    @ozzyfromspace 6 років тому +5

    This is amazing! Who on Earth could have possibly disliked this video?

  • @retro.jonnes
    @retro.jonnes 3 роки тому +1

    This is the best explanation about mixers I found over the YT! Thanks!!!

  • @stefanopassiglia
    @stefanopassiglia 7 років тому +2

    Super. I got back to working on electronics after looking at one of your "back to basics" video, and I am still an audio frequency guy but I love learning about RF which is a domain I touched really very lightly during my studies. Thanks for these fantastic videos.

  • @outsideaglass
    @outsideaglass 4 роки тому

    Your videos have definitely saved me this term. With COVID19 shutting down the labs and everything's moved online, it's been really hard for me to learn just from my professor's lectures and no lab work. I was really struggling til I found your videos. Thanks so much!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому

      Very happy to hear that!

  • @MrCarlsonsLab
    @MrCarlsonsLab 10 років тому +12

    Hi Alan! I have recently found your videos through making my own. I Just started making videos, and guys like you are a great inspiration to keep going. We have a lot in common I see. I have a scope collecting problem "ha ha" ....... Well, test gear collecting in general.... And so on.
    Great Videos! And keep it up. My subscription list is still small, but your now in it!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  10 років тому +3

      Thanks! I've subscribed to your channel too.

  • @devjock
    @devjock 10 років тому

    I'm subscribed to the synth-diy mailinglist and there's so much material that's common between these two areas. Besides the diode nonlinearity, which in audio-synth territory gets kinda fixed by an ideal diode circuit (fancy balanced opamps), it's basically a ring modulator!
    Crystal clear explanation as always, much appreciated for uploading!

  • @thisnicklldo
    @thisnicklldo 10 років тому

    Terrific video. It must take you a long time to get all these diagrams and oscilloscope setups working, but they really make things clear. Thanks.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  10 років тому

      Sometimes the preparation work for producing a video like this can be several hours, or even a few days of spare-time tinkering.

  • @yytvo212
    @yytvo212 2 роки тому +1

    The explanation on the diode circuit diagram is amazing and in-depth. Classroom courses pale in comparison.

  • @MoTown44240
    @MoTown44240 6 років тому

    Jim, AC8NT my Extra Class instructor showed this and three more of your videos tonight. I am one of those is having/ has been having a difficult time understanding electronic theory. I am struggling. Now that the former Advanced and former Extra class material is combined I will be attempting to pass Extra in 5 weeks. This is my 2nd time in Jim's class, last time was 18 months ago, and I am still having difficulty grasping the ET concept. Thankful for guys like you and Jim though. Terry KB8AMZ

  • @outsideaglass
    @outsideaglass 4 роки тому

    These videos are super helpful with the COVID19 quarantine preventing us from going into the lab (and with professors who aren't capable of making videos) - thanks a lot! You're a life saver!

  • @ronjones4069
    @ronjones4069 8 років тому +2

    By far the best, clearest explanation of how the DBM works. I kinda' understood them, but now I feel as I DO understand them. THANK YOU!! You are the man!!!Ron K7RJ

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 років тому +2

      Thank you for the nice comments! I hope you find some of my other videos just as helpful. Be sure to check out the video index .pdf file that is linked on the main channel page (lower right corner of the banner graphic).

  • @copernicus633
    @copernicus633 4 роки тому +1

    Question about theory: The diode ring mixer shown here seems very different from the Gilbert Cell mixer described elsewhere. The diode ring seems to “chop” one frequency with another frequency. That doesn’t seem like “multiplication”, but more of a harmonic creation mechanism. The undesired harmonics are eliminated with filtering, but with losses from the energy spent in suppressed harmonics. The Gilbert Cell seems like a true multiplication, where the product of 2 sinusoids is produced accurately, without creating a lot of extraneous harmonics. It is therefore less noisy. Is this a roughly true comparison?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому

      Basically yes. The diode ring can be though of as a multiplication of one signal by an alternating +1 and 0, or +1 and -1, as opposed to a continuous multiplication. Even the Gilbert Cell can (and is often) be driven into limiting, thus giving a similar result to the way the diode ring mixer works.

  • @AntiProtonBoy
    @AntiProtonBoy 10 років тому +15

    One of the things that is a real grey area for me is winding coils and transformers for a circuit like this. Is there are good introductory material on choosing the right ferrite material, geometry and so forth? Perhaps you could discuss this topic in a new video, if appropriate?

    • @TrystansWorkbench
      @TrystansWorkbench 6 років тому +1

      Here is one of Alan's videos on winding the coils for this: ua-cam.com/video/a8ViWS61hsU/v-deo.html

  • @UberAlphaSirus
    @UberAlphaSirus 10 років тому +9

    Thanks to you w2aew, RF is becoming less voodoo magic to me. Thanks :D

  • @fjs1111
    @fjs1111 9 місяців тому +1

    wow Alan, that was awesome. I knew how mixing worked, but to see the ways you did this it really made me think.. Also -- that was really cool to see a custom math expression on a scope, I've never seen custom expressions before, only built-in

  • @striker851
    @striker851 9 років тому

    Thank you for such a well thought through explanation. I'm still trying to wrap my head around AC waveforms and the math, but you really helped to visualize it.

  • @m8uwut
    @m8uwut 10 років тому +2

    Lots of info, learned something new today. I'm sure it will be helpful in the future.
    You're doing Gods work.

  • @berni8k
    @berni8k 10 років тому

    Thanks for the nice and simple explanation, i don't do RF stuff but i always wondered what these mixers are that i see everywhere.

  • @allanseward7293
    @allanseward7293 6 років тому

    It was great to visualize the results from multiplying the cosine waves at different frequencies. Thx

  • @stephenmoore2754
    @stephenmoore2754 10 років тому +3

    Thanks very much for an informative video. Sometimes it takes one key piece of information to turn the light on in the ole noggin and you did it. I have been wondering for years just WHERE the information in an AM signal (sidebands) was located with respect to the overall signal. Watching it on a spectrum analyzer is one thing, but to see in on a scope trace is another. You answered a question that has been bothering me for years. I know that you can see the relation in the math, and that "stuff" may be found in other quadrants of the graphs, but your explanation finally showed me HOW it is related in the time domain. Great stuff. Now if I can translate this to a better understanding of SSB. . . . .

  • @emylrmm
    @emylrmm 4 роки тому +1

    this explanation is very nicely done

  • @wizardofboz76
    @wizardofboz76 3 місяці тому +1

    Very interesting.. its like you have a rectifier switched by the RF?

  • @gregorymccoy6797
    @gregorymccoy6797 3 роки тому

    Thanks so much. I came here from your other mixer video. I've got a good handle on this now, at least for this type of mixer. I'm more of a digital domain, embedded guy but am getting the urge to try some RF projects.

  • @zerovolt24
    @zerovolt24 Рік тому +1

    Hi Alan, would 32 AWG also be ok? T37 is really small. Maybe 30 AWG is good for bigger toroid diameters too, so I can only buy one coil to suit all.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  Рік тому

      Sure, that would work

  • @TechTins_Projects
    @TechTins_Projects 10 років тому

    Thanks for this. Love it. I never really understood diode mixers. Now I do!

  • @SopanKotbagi
    @SopanKotbagi 5 років тому

    What kind of diodes can we use for making these double-balanced diode-ring mixers? And what determines the frequency window of operation of these mixers, if any? Great video as always. Thanks!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  5 років тому +1

      High speed schottky diodes are the most common. The design of the transformers (number of turns, core material, etc.) will largely determine the operating frequency range.

  • @maro8D
    @maro8D 7 років тому +2

    Hello Alan, great video as usual! But I have some questions to it:
    1. You have your LO amplitude set to 400 mV is it enough to switch on 2 diodes? When I see a diode I automatically think of 0.7 V voltage drop. I think it's hard wired in my brain after school :)
    2. I understand that the RF signal amplitude must be below voltage that turns the diodes on is that right? So that only LO controls the diodes. Did I get it right?
    3. Is the LO amplitude picked so low intentionally so that there is not clamping from top and bottom?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  7 років тому +4

      Hello Marek. I'm using 1N5711 low power schottky diodes in the ring. The Vf for these schottky diodes is about 1/2 of that a regular junction diode. The LO is used to modulate the diodes. The RF level is generally kept well below this to minimize distortion. Best (lowest) conversion loss occurs when the diodes are fully switched on/off, but the mixing happens even if this isn't the case. As long as the LO and RF are combined in a non-linear manner, the mixing happens - it's just that the conversion loss will be higher. When the LO power is high enough to fully switch the diodes, there is a fair amount of harmonic distortion visible on the LO drive waveform. For this video, I didn't want to get into that level of detail, so I kept the LO drive lower to keep the video length reasonable. Thanks for the good questions.

    • @stevejin9459
      @stevejin9459 4 роки тому

      Marek The mixed two signals on diode should be less than 0.6v( for silicon diode) to have less current. That makes the load to both transformer light, hence less signal distortion to signal source. Also, less power consumption by the circuit. Diode has non liner v-I curve, in all range from 0.x volt to couple volt. That how the diode makes the added voltage of the two sources to multiplied current, measured by the resistor in serial . The diode ring also called ‘Gilbert cell’ question from stackoverflow, electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/307776/why-do-diode-rings-multiply

  • @JimGriffOne
    @JimGriffOne 10 років тому

    I tried building one of these to make a 38kHz DSB-SC subcarrier for my FM radio transmitter. It worked, but my whole project failed when it came to trying to make a nice 19kHz pilot tone (sinewave) while also having a perfectly in-phase 38kHz sinewave to modulate the L-R audio. It gets so complicated! Wish I'd chosen electronics when I was college age.

  • @joaopaulocoelho5401
    @joaopaulocoelho5401 2 роки тому

    Another perfect video. It would be nice to talk a little about the transformer. How the number of turns was found? Any math involved or just trial and error? Thank you!

  • @kedmark
    @kedmark 4 роки тому

    Exactly what I was looking for, tyvm for posting.

  • @markbell9742
    @markbell9742 10 років тому +2

    The ‘Math Expression’ in Tek MDO3104 is very neat; a scope married to an Excel spreadsheet (or to the more highfalutin: MATLAB or Mathematica). Cheers, Mark

  • @rustukaya9342
    @rustukaya9342 9 років тому +2

    Thank you sir, couldnt be explained better.

  • @ToddFun
    @ToddFun 10 років тому

    ***** At 5:15 the circuit on the right doesn't have an LO input but does have an IF input and an IF output. This is a mistake? or is there something I don't quite understand?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  10 років тому

      Good catch! Of course, the port on the left of the right-hand circuit should also say LO.

  • @tulsEE87
    @tulsEE87 2 роки тому

    Thanks for clearing concepts. Can you please say is any low frequency (kHz) QPSK modulator available or not?

  • @omsingharjit
    @omsingharjit 2 роки тому

    please explain and make little circuit of how Tuning Meter Led indicator circuit works in old Radio ?

  • @ericacopenhaver
    @ericacopenhaver 10 років тому +1

    Thanks for this tutorial! Why, however, does the LO alone set the direction of the current in your analysis? Why doesn't the RF signal affect the current? Do we need to assume that the LO's amplitude is much greater than the RF?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  10 років тому +1

      Yes, that is typically the case. When you look up commercial mixer specs, you see Level-7 mixers, Level-10, Level-13, etc. This refers to the power of the LO signal (7dBm, 10dBm, etc.).

  • @bain5872
    @bain5872 10 років тому +1

    Exceptional! Truly enjoyed it.

  • @jeffscaparra6985
    @jeffscaparra6985 9 років тому +4

    So would using a square wave for the LO clean up the signal because the diode mixer would transition on and off faster? would some weird combination of a square and sine be better? Is this accounted for in actual circuits or is a different type of mixer preferred?

    • @caulktel
      @caulktel 7 років тому

      Jeff Scaparra There is a lot of discussion over on the Bitx20 .io groups about this. Personally, I would rather use a sine wave rather than a square wave full of harmonics. Joel KB6QVI

    • @jeffscaparra6985
      @jeffscaparra6985 7 років тому

      Cool I will check that out

    • @RechargeableLithium
      @RechargeableLithium 7 років тому

      Joel - we want to use a square wave because we want the sharp turn-on and turn-off of the diodes. Matching the four diodes, feeding enough power in from the LO, and having a 1:1 SWR at all three ports will keep the signal clean. For more, Pete Juliano has a three-part UA-cam series on the topic, and details can be found in "Solid State Design for the Radio Amateur" as well as the 'QRP Homebuilder" archive.
      nt7s.com/files/QRPHomebuilder.pdf
      ua-cam.com/video/kzcvNzpMv3U/v-deo.html
      73

    • @johnc8910
      @johnc8910 6 років тому

      Disagree. You do NOT want extraneous harmonics generated in your mixer. Extraneous harmonics give extraneous images which can complicate selecting just the desired sum or difference frequency.
      Diode matching is not a problem with modern components. You can buy a quad ring part with 4 matched diodes for less than 4 individual diodes.
      Optimum LO injection is 7 dBm.

  • @fariborzsadeghivafa4473
    @fariborzsadeghivafa4473 2 роки тому

    Hi , Thank you very much for the nice video and your information, but I was confused and about the value of coil , you made mixer with 10 turns of the coil with core T37-6 , and the other with 10 turns FT37-43 , which are very different in T37-6 =0.3 UH FT37-43= 35 UH the value of coils in the mixer It has no effect ? I am also happy if you have MCL SBL-1 mixer , measure the values of bases 1 and 2 or 7and 8 thank you in advance .

  • @holden0
    @holden0 Рік тому

    At 5:15, shouldn't the IF on the right-side diagram have an LO at the upper left node (like in the left-side diagram)? Because you already have an IF output at the RL?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  Рік тому

      Yes, there is an error in the video. The downloadable notes pages have been corrected.

  • @garygrove2884
    @garygrove2884 3 роки тому

    Very interesting video Alan !! I noticed that my IFR-1000S has similar circuits that seem to mimic your Diode Ring Mixer video !! 73's Gary Grove

  • @danedewaard8215
    @danedewaard8215 2 роки тому

    You explained very well how the LO changes the polarity of the IF output, but there is a more complicated interaction of that polarity change on the RF input which is changing at a different rate than LO (if the frequencies of LO and RF are different), that is when the IF output becomes the sum and difference of the LO and RF frequencies. Am I correct or am I in the dark corner???

    • @scottp1100
      @scottp1100 11 місяців тому

      The LO is really biasing the top and the bottom of the RF port's transformer to ground. He drew current coming from the ring diode, but that's misleading (I think) because you don't really want current coming from the ring diode (it's really current on the RF side of the transformer coming from ground over there). Any current coming from the diode-side is likely LO leakage (The current from the RF should flow to RF, but a lot of LO leaks into the IF port - you can see it when you measure the IF port output on a spectrum analyzer. Mixers have bad isolation.). As the ground bias from the ring switches when each half of the ring diode turns on/off, that's where the RF port's polarity gets switched back a forth and adds/subtracts the LO to the RF frequency or the equivalent of a multiply (If you wanted to just add the RF and LO you could use a combiner, but that wouldn't get you 1/2(IF+LO) and 1/2(IF-LO). It would just get you RF and LO on top of each other). You need a strong LO stimulus power to turn on/off the diodes. The goal of the ring diode is to just grounding the top half or bottom half of the RF port's transformer - that's why other mixer designs sometimes use MOSFETs instead of diodes to turn on/off.
      Correct me if I'm wrong...

  • @dustinl5372
    @dustinl5372 3 місяці тому

    Where did you get your inductors from? Do you have a part number? If hand-made, what is the gauge of wire and numbers of turns?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  3 місяці тому

      I wound the transformers myself. 10 turns, tri-filar wound on a T37-6 core.

  • @mrjohhhnnnyyy5797
    @mrjohhhnnnyyy5797 10 років тому

    2:15 Dave's ruler, that's nice!

  • @MyWorld-sx2tq
    @MyWorld-sx2tq 8 років тому

    Do the undesired harmonics generate because of the diodes' nonlinear response?

  • @markussteinbacher8807
    @markussteinbacher8807 7 років тому

    very informative video. Thank you Alan. Did the amperage in this system rising when reducing the frequency ? aka mix 100khz with 1 vpp and 50 khz 1 vpp equals 150 khz and 50 khz with twice ampere ?

  • @robertfranks5376
    @robertfranks5376 4 роки тому

    Hi Alan. I had a question about your directional coupler video. You used the outside conductor of a piece of coax as a Faraday shield by grounding one side. Why doesn't this allow signal current to flow in the shield, and wouldn't this cancel out the EM energy from the inner conductor so that the toroid current- sensing xfmr would sense zero current since the toroid surrounds both conductors. Thanks.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому

      The faraday shield does not block the magnetic field (only the electric field), so there is still magnetic coupling to the toroid transformer.

    • @robertfranks5376
      @robertfranks5376 4 роки тому

      @@w2aew Hi Alan. Thank you so much for your response. I was thinking that the magnetic field from the electric current returning through the shield in the opposite direction to the current in the inner conductor would cancel out the magnetic field from the current flowing through the center conductor. Thanks again.

  • @johnrinehart
    @johnrinehart 9 років тому

    That was a really good explanation. Thank you very much for this. The only (small) modification I would have made to this video would be to change the math to have your logic driven by the transition level of the diodes (assume .6v for the 1N5711) only after you show the IF signal at the mixer output. This would help demonstrate that the zero portions are due to diode transitions. I saw that you used the LO to demonstrate this. But, it would have been good to see that mathematical waveform approach the measured wave. Also, it seems that the measured signal lags behind the math waveform (see 8:52). But, it's hard to tell without taking the difference of the mathematical waveform and the measured signal. Can you confirm that this is happening and can you explain why this might be happening?
    Thanks, again. Really, it was a great video. I could not have done better myself.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  9 років тому

      John Rinehart Thanks for the nice comments. I haven't taken that close a look at those small phase shifts, although it looks to me that the measured waveform is slightly leading the math waveform. I suspect that it is at least partially due to the difference in phase shift through the transformers (and I was measuring the signals on the primaries.

  • @andrewferg8737
    @andrewferg8737 3 роки тому

    Question: I've built a diode mixer for AM modulation and compared it with the Gilbert Cell modulator. Does the diode version always suppress the carrier? or can it be adjusted produce a traditional AM signal like the Gilbert Cell?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  3 роки тому

      You can sort-of do this by adding a DC offset to the baseband signal applied to the IF input.

  • @christopherwells4768
    @christopherwells4768 4 роки тому

    Even though only one half of the RF transformer is used at a time, do the coils used by the opposing polarity not resist the conducting of current in that direction, since they are all mechanically connected?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому

      The "unused" half sees a high impedance, so no current flows.

  • @danielperez761
    @danielperez761 9 років тому

    Excellent explanation of the operation of a mixer.
    Regarding to it, I have a question to you.
    I need to compare two input standard signals of 10MHz. I could use a good interval counter to do it, but I need to have a better resolution.
    Then we decided to use a frequency mixer in order to obtain a frequency difference of some Hz ( 300-500Hz) at the output.
    My question is how to calculate the construction of the two baluns (how many turns and the diameter of the wires) so they can work on that frequency with the same circuit that you show in the video.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  9 років тому +2

      daniel perez General practice is to make the inductive reactance of the winding to be 4 or 5 (or more) times the impedance of the circuits driving it. For 50 ohm applications (typical), the windings should results in a reactance of 200-250 ohms or so. The number of turns can be determine by using one of many online calculators like the one shown here:
      toroids.info/

    • @danielperez761
      @danielperez761 9 років тому

      ***** many thanks for your quick response! It is very useful to us and we will build our mixer immediately in accordance with the data that you have provided us.:)

  • @researchandbuild1751
    @researchandbuild1751 4 роки тому

    What do you need to drive this mixer? How much voltage, and what kind of impedance does it expose to the driver side?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому

      Typically about +7dBm drive when built with schottkey diodes. Impedance looking in will depend on impedances on the other ports.

  • @Yureka-ox5jn
    @Yureka-ox5jn 3 роки тому

    You say that the point between two diode acts as ground. For the transformer (RF side) both ends can be connected directly to ground and no need to connect between two diodes. This should also work isn't? But then how does RF gets multiplied if the LO signal is not affecting the induction of second transfer? I think there will be a back emf from the first transformer and that will allow some charge to flow from point (between two diodes) towards second transformer and affect the induction level at that moment i.e. gets mix with induction generated by RF signal?

  • @aero_pilot923
    @aero_pilot923 6 років тому

    I have a variable speed circuit board which has a Triac on the circuit board. The circuit board varies the AC ( 120 VAC line voltage) to control a carpenter's router.
    The motor blew. I need to check the circuit board if it too did not fail .
    Can a voltmeter ( which has no load) directly measure voltage ( or varied voltage ) directly out of a known working or non- working circuit board ( like that of a dimmer switch for a ceiling light) or does it need a load to measure - to see if a voltage ( or a varying voltage) is at its output of the dimmer ( or varying speed of a motor such as a router) ??
    Thank you ... Maybe do a video on it

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  6 років тому

      It depends on the meter. Only a meter that is specified for "true RMS" readings will read correctly. It also depends on the nature of the speed control circuit, whether it needs a load to work properly (most likely not, but worth mentioning).

  • @josepaul2000
    @josepaul2000 9 років тому

    Thanks for the video! I am wondering, at 4:42 , could the 'LO' may well be a square wave? (since the mathematical expression simply detects the zero crossing) If so, the output doesn't seem to look so bad, why do we care so much about getting a low distortion sinusoidal oscillator? Or is that more relevant in circuits with 'better' mixers?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  9 років тому +1

      It does depend on the mixer design, but in this case, a squarewave LO would work

  • @Falican1
    @Falican1 4 роки тому

    Hey! do you have a video where you explain about the harmonic terminations to avoid reflections? thanks!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому

      I'm sorry, I don't...

  • @СтаніславЄрмоленко

    Thank you very much for detal video about diode ring mixer!

  • @gardoomforge8273
    @gardoomforge8273 7 років тому

    An amazing explanation! Than you very much and keep up the good work!

  • @danmoos3635
    @danmoos3635 2 роки тому

    Is the first transformer's only purpose creating the phase split?

  • @cozycactus
    @cozycactus 7 років тому

    hello..can you do video about antiparallel diodes mixer? that works on half frequency of local oscillator

  • @gregpeterson7946
    @gregpeterson7946 3 роки тому

    One aspect I have not seen addressed (yet) is drive level. The signal amplitude at the diodes I think should be at least 1.5 v, since 2 x silicon diode voltage drops of 0.7 v would be at least 1.4 volts to turn them on. But I do not know what the transformer ratio is, so I cannot guess at the LO amplitude. I also would like to play with IF filters, but do not know the proper drive level. My initial thought would be to drive a filter (mechanical, crystal, or piezo) with a sig gen at the filter's center frequency, slowly increasing the amplitude until I see some saturation evidenced by output ceasing to increase. At some point, I would expect damage from excessive drive, so I would like to stay below that. Radiofun232 comes close to addressing this with some of his lash-ups, but my questions remain unanswered.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  3 роки тому

      I do address this topic in this video: ua-cam.com/video/GvadQpkZ8l0/v-deo.html

  • @tim46767
    @tim46767 10 років тому

    Thank you for this great tutorial. But I have another question: How works a Polyakov mixer?

    • @marcisberzins
      @marcisberzins 4 роки тому

      Polyakov mixer in his DC receivers works with large signal from LO (with frequency two times lower than the signal frequency), which turns on the diodes twice each cycle (one diode for +, other diode for -) and the RF signal, which is small, is sent to the output at these times. We have at the output the difference frequency between 2 times LO frequency and RF frequency.

  • @dirkpeters9611
    @dirkpeters9611 3 роки тому

    very good explained. Thank you !!!

  • @thomasoffenbecher2196
    @thomasoffenbecher2196 4 роки тому

    Excellent explanation, thank you very much.

  • @guenaziz2
    @guenaziz2 4 роки тому

    Thank you so much for this video. I tried to find good explanation of how could diodes make the mixing, but never found any relevant one.
    Thank you Alan!

  • @raybarron316
    @raybarron316 8 років тому

    Alan, I'm considering building the SDR dongle upconverter from the QST article written by James Forkin (WA3TFA). The double balanced mixer he recommends (SRA-1) is going to cost almost as much for shipping as the mixer itself. Could your diode ring mixer be used as a replacement for his double balanced mixer? The part schematic and yours look almost identical.

    • @alanwolke6253
      @alanwolke6253 8 років тому +1

      One of the benefits of the purchased mixer is that the diodes are likely well matched which gives good RF and LO rejection. For this application though, this isn't that important. The homebrew mixer should work well.

  • @uygarglk
    @uygarglk Рік тому

    Thank you for great explanation.

  • @AKsizzle47
    @AKsizzle47 9 років тому

    If my understanding is accurate, mixing the two frequencies by multiplying them is essentially amplitude modulating them. However, in mind mind when I think AM, I envision a signal that is symmetrical about t = 0 axis. What are the differences in generating these types of AM signals and what kind of circuit modulates symmetrically?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  9 років тому

      +AKsizzle47 There are lots of ways to mix signals. Combining the signals through any non-linear process will create the mixing products. In this case, the multiplication is bipolar, that's why you don't see the symmetry you expected. In a balanced mixer like this, the original carrier is suppressed, and the sum and difference frequencies are most dominant.

  • @budleyca1
    @budleyca1 10 років тому

    Great explanation, thanks Alan...
    Bud...

  • @ianyappy
    @ianyappy 8 років тому

    Why are the points in the middle of the diode ring considered to be 0V?

  • @charlieb.4273
    @charlieb.4273 6 років тому

    Why did you choose T 36-6 torroids as opposed to a type 2? I plan on building this and will use the T-36-6s but I am curious as to the choice. The permeability of the materials are close. How did you decide on the number of windings?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  6 років тому

      Quite simply - I had more of the type-6 on hand. As for the number of turns - I simply followed an example that was in one of my many books - probably Experimental Methods for the Radio Amateur, or maybe even the ARRL Handbook (sorry, I don't remember what book I borrowed the design from).

  • @turkerbayraktarlar2640
    @turkerbayraktarlar2640 2 роки тому

    Hi Alan. Im TA9AAP from Turkey. I hope you will answer my question. There are many different types of diode ring mixer circuits in professional devices and in many schemes. I have been working for a long time to make a handmade QRP device. But I have seen some diode mixer schemes with 4 diodes, one transformer and one potentiometer (LO). I couldn't find anything when I searched about the number of turns of these, what the value of the potentiometer used should be and how I should adapt the impedance. Yes, it is a simple diode mixer, but I want to design a single transformer that is not trifiliar or bifiliar, but a mixer with 4 diodes and only one potentiometer. Can you please help me on how to do it?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  2 роки тому +1

      I've never used a mixer like that, but I would suspect that the value of the potentiometer isn't too critical. I would try something on the order of 1kohm. As for the number of turns, the general rule with RF transformers is to have sufficient turns so that the inductance of the winding gives you a reactance value that is at least 4x the system impedance (typically 50 ohms) at the lowest frequency of operation.

    • @turkerbayraktarlar2640
      @turkerbayraktarlar2640 2 роки тому

      @@w2aew Firstly thank you very very much for answer. I thought maybe you would like to review the diagram in this video. 73 ua-cam.com/video/nZ5ftl7Uuf0/v-deo.html

  • @adrian_sp6def
    @adrian_sp6def 4 роки тому

    I have question: You mention that LO is used to multiply RF by 1 or -1 (or 0 sometimes when LO crosses 0). Can I use square LO instead of sine ?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому

      Yes you can. In fact, that's why the LO power is generally pretty high - you want to quick turn the diodes on/off. A square wave does this well.

  • @rsim22
    @rsim22 5 років тому

    Fantastic video! - Any chance you can do a similar video on the JFET ring mixer?

  • @Koolandonymous
    @Koolandonymous 7 років тому

    very helpful video ....alan. can u please simulate the same using any software.

  • @goldlover5915
    @goldlover5915 5 років тому

    I want to make a mixer the same as a SBL-3 what schottky diodes would be best for the mixer?? Thanks Also FT37-43? does it have to be shielded?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  5 років тому

      FT37-43 and 1N5711 diodes would be a good start.

  • @tamyk64
    @tamyk64 9 років тому

    Learn a lot from your video, thanks !

  • @peterfitzpatrick7032
    @peterfitzpatrick7032 5 років тому

    That 'scope is thirteen & a half grand (€) here in Ireland 😔☹
    But at least I am blessed to have your teaching & demonstrations for free here on the Tube... for that I sincerely thank you !! 😎👍☘🍺

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  5 років тому

      I am very lucky to work for Tektronix - so that helps!

  • @ebear1ca
    @ebear1ca 10 років тому

    I have re designed the front end board in my old Yaesu FT-101 by Replacing the RF amplifier FET with a 3N211 or a 40673 which I have and using a MC1495 as a 1st recieve mixer as well as the 2nd recieve mixer to get rid of some of the birdies found in the rigs pass band. After what you tell me about dynamic range and higher intercept points I am now concidering using either a shottkey diode DBM or DDBM if I have enough LO drive.
    Ted VE6AMR

  • @nevmarr
    @nevmarr 2 роки тому

    Hi Alan. You comment that the IF output should have a good termination / a nice broad band termination, to prevent reflections. I’m all good with that. There is plenty of similar discussion on the web etc that agrees but “everyone” talks about a 50R IF termination. Is there something special about 50R or is it just a convention? Reading the comments I see the transformers XL need to be 4 or 5 times greater than RL … maybe 50R IF translates to a “practical” number of windings for homebrew transformers? Further, I assume the more XL the more attenuation on the ports, desensitising the mixer?? Thank you for letting me think out loud as I don’t have any Elmers etc to discuss with.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  2 роки тому

      50R is commonplace, but not set in stone. Note that when making RF transformers, it is common to have the winding inductance be at least 4x the impedance used by the signals going through the transformer so that the inductance isn't really seen, but the impedance is then given by the impedance present at the transformer's input/output. More XL on the transformer windings helps to make the transformer more ideal - to a point. If you put too many windings, the interwinding capacitance will bite you. So 4x is the generally accepted minimum, and probably no more than 10-15x the system impedance on the high end. You can get away with a bit more - it all depends on when the parasitics start being a problem.

    • @nevmarr
      @nevmarr 2 роки тому

      @@w2aew Thank you for your helpful comments. You say the transformer inductance needs to be at least 4X so that the inductance isn't really seen … that initially confused me but after much thought I’ve concluded the RF transformer winding “being used” is in parallel with RL, AC wise, hence the total inductance is close to RL. Am I on the right track?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  2 роки тому

      @@nevmarr Yes!

    • @nevmarr
      @nevmarr 2 роки тому

      @@w2aew Whoo-hoo!!! Once again, thank you sooooo much for taking the time to help me.

  • @roylt21
    @roylt21 6 років тому

    are mixers in general bi-directional? Meaning can I have my two inputs be both IF and LO ports, and look at the mixing products at the RF port? Or can you only apply the inputs to RF and LO, and have IF be the output?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  6 років тому

      In general, yes. Most often the IF and RF ports can be interchanged.

  • @sameersiddiqui7139
    @sameersiddiqui7139 7 років тому +1

    Can someone explain what is the exact purpose of the two transformers used in the circuit?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  7 років тому +1

      The two transformers create a balanced differential drive to the diode ring. This is why it's called a double-balanced mixer, and why the carrier and LO are suppressed in the output.

  • @adilmalik7066
    @adilmalik7066 8 років тому

    is the leakage you pointed out in the spectrum the same reason we see "LO feedthrough" on spectrum analysers? excellent video!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 років тому

      Similar, yes.

  • @dietmarzabel8220
    @dietmarzabel8220 7 років тому

    Very well explained! Many Thanks !!!

  • @1bizjets
    @1bizjets 4 роки тому

    Good refresher. Thank you.

  • @awesomeblossom6557
    @awesomeblossom6557 4 роки тому

    Great informational video! Your videos help a great deal when I'm trying to work out something of my own. Quick question: @ 6:42 when you are explaining the negative state of the diode mixer ring, I'm assuming the input is still LO, but in the video and in your copy of the notes, it's written as IF.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому

      Yes, this is a mistake in my notes. Thank you for paying attention!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 роки тому +1

      I've edited the PDF to correct it and uploaded it.

    • @awesomeblossom6557
      @awesomeblossom6557 4 роки тому

      Ah wow! Thank you sir, appreciate it.