I have always seen the Withering Devil as a manifestation of a Druid who died Angry and alone resenting the destruction of the glade or Forrest they sought to protect. Specifically, one that lost their home to the "progress" of mankind in the development of cities and such.
I really like this take, could see a druid bound for hell "negotiating" this form of afterlife in the fugue plane as they await judgement and collection. :)
I really have to say that I really like and appreciate extra critters. I feel that most of the demons and devils, just like the dragons, are a known and obvious threat that literally every player can recognize and can look up if they don’t already know. Having things that are different and outside the the categorized pidgin hole adds to much more to the game. Having them use the religion, arcana, and research skills can add so much to the story. Finding out why the local blacksmith was found in the back of his storeroom curled into a ball weeping. It is a beautiful bright sunny morning, his business is going well, he is loved and popular in the town. His family is healthy and happy. Every indication is that everything is going very well. Yet he is miserable. Had been grumpy and sullen all week yet nobody knows why and as usual people don’t want to push or be rude. It’s probably just something personal and none of their business. He’ll come around soon. His youngest son had been running the storefront of the smithery for a couple of days now and is obviously worried and vexed. The smith hasn’t slept in days and his face is puffy yet shockingly grey. His strong form is sitting in the dark corner, light seems to offend him and any attempts cheer him up or comfort him result in a swift shutdown his despair and depression are evident. Did a party member notice the cloaked figure walking by as they talked to the boy at first? A cloud passed over and no direct light shone on them. It was brief and maybe without seeing it a party member or two felt a bit sad hearted or a bit nauseous. It passes quickly… An outland devil has come for his payment.
A thought: Perhaps on the free tier of your Patreon you could post the entire list of devils, possibly divided into Outlanders and hierarchy with the fan favorite art depicting each type so that there’s a complete listing for easier reference.
Brilliant video as always. Hellfire wyrms are my favorite fiend variety. I use them as the ringleader of groups of rakshas as goups of soul devouring spies. Also are rakshasa outsider devils?
A great question and one I was on the fence about including. I have already researched quite a bit and will be doing a dedicated video on them. They are definitely fiends and outsiders... but there is lore that suggests they have lineage to devils, demons and even daemons so I left them off. But I think you can certainly make the case either way, something I will address when their "Monster Lab" episode comes out :) GREAT question, thank you!
I would very much like more lore and secrets about the 9 Hells and the Shelves of Despond, also how devils torture souls do they use time loop magic or are there special places in hell where time loops exist or are there unique special devils that create time loops to torture souls?🤔 otherwise they will destroy and use up souls if they dont have or use time loops to torture them and milk their torments and suffering for power/magical energy. A time loop will create endless fuel by/for torturing souls and resetting time to restore the soul so it can be tortured over and over again. I want more rare lore of The Hells and Abyss💖 Also does there exist a supreme library/infernal library in Hell (similar to Candlekeep) with every and all knowledge and lore that exist throughout the universe/multiverse? Because devils are totally the type that would hoard and treasure knowledge and everyone knows knowledge is power. Sorry for ranting and my weird questions/requests🙈
Well i guess we can debate on the proper pronounciation on "Orthon" ... but we will just have to agree to disagree on Hierarchy. Thanks for watching and commenting regardless. :)
I love this channel and I’m working my way through all your videos. They’re extremely well researched and thorough, and your commitment to keeping them sponsor free is commendable to say the least. I do however take issue with your reliance on AI generated art. The disclaimer at the beginning of the video states that all images, unless otherwise specified, are property of the channel. The thing is, they’re not. I’m not sure about the legal side and I’m not speaking to that. I mean morally, ethically, they are not your images. AI art is generated using real humans’ art, oftentimes artists who do not give consent for their work to be used, let alone given proper compensation. I understand that a lot of the topics you cover simply do not have a litany of images you can pull from, and that you have to supplement this somehow. What I don’t understand is why you don’t make an effort to use real human art where possible. At the very least, you could use your platform to shout out small artists for the unpaid labor they do for you to feed these image generation models. Idk, it’s a very complicated issue especially when you’re a small channel with such a huge scope. I imagine the background art is not high on your priority list compared to the extensive amount of work you put into research for these videos. Anyway, that’s my two cents on the matter. Again though, really fantastic videos.
@emmaprofitt9772 - I think we agree on a lot more than we disagree and either way I completely understand your position. My disclaimer at the end of the videos is intended to illustrate the commercial licenses that I have as opposed to any type of free art or free art generation. I pay over four figures annually so that I have the properties granted by the license, which says that I have ownership. And while I agree that a lot in still up in the air, I am just including the language I am allowed until things are more settled. I personally believe (and hope) that in a few years this will be settled where artists can, just like the RIAA, get a cut from profits and if that means that the consumers like myself pay more, then so be it. Thanks for taking the time to make your feelings known, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
@@RichesandLiches thanks so much for responding in such a respectful way, I really appreciate your behind the scenes insight because I’ll be honest, I didn’t know about a lot of the things you said, so i definitely learned something. You have clearly put a lot of thought into the decision to use this type image, and I really appreciate you explaining some of the ins and outs to me.
13:10 "To erase the Forgotten Realms with their horribly ill-conceived 'Points of Light' campaign setting." Dude, 3rd Edition's default campaign setting was a stripped down Greyhawk. Stop acting like FR was the only campaign setting they worked on.
Not really sure what you mean by "acting" any certain way or what your actual point was here. I am well aware of and played in the 3e Greyhawk setting and while I agree it was watered down and even worthy of criticism, I do not see the correalation you are trying to make to my comments as they are wholly unrelated. I was not commenting on "any and all" setting issues or scorn, the context of my comment was directly tied to the Tar Devil which was part of/introduced with the Points of Light setting. Had the Tar Devil been introduced in the 3e Greyhawk setting then the comment would obviously have been different... although I - personally - found the Nentir Vale to be far worse than the "watered down" Greyhawk setting, but that is a matter of personal opinion. Still... thank you for taking the time to comment.
@@RichesandLiches You stated that the Nentir Vale campaign setting was an attempt by Wizards to replace/erase the Forgotten Realms. This is in spite of the fact that 4E had the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting released within 2 months of the edition's release, which at the time was the fastest turnaround between an edition release and a Forgotten Realms campaign book release, as well as the dozens of Dragon Magazine and Dungeon Magazine articles, which included character profiles, backdrops, adventure modules, and Ed Greenwood's Eye on the Realms columns. You could argue that sticking the vast majority of their Forgotten Realms material in their online magazines was a shameless attempt to sell D&D Insider accounts, but they did not try to erase or replace it. Furthermore, I've found that a lot of your claims in previous videos regarding the "contradictory" lore of 4E, whether it's Io's death at the hands of Erek-Hus or the Primordials creation of the world which you described as "Nerathi lies" grating because those events took place in an entirely different campaign setting, often using similarly-named and themed but ultimately separate characters. The first time a Forgotten Realms work (not the Nentir Vale/Dawn War campaign setting) mentioned Io's death was in one of three dragonborn creation myths in the 5E Sword Coast Adventure's Guide, only one of which explicitly mentions his death, with the others leaving open the possibility that Io is a distant and uncaring but still living god. Meanwhile, the claim that the Primordials created Abeir-Toril and the other worlds of the solar system (even as a bullshit narrative) isn't even supported by the 4E book Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, as it claims they merely found and coveted them, and the native gods had taken issue with their attempts to seize their worlds. Primordials created different worlds than Abeir-Toril, and near as I can tell, there was never a claim otherwise. As for my point regarding Greyhawk, I was saying that if there was a campaign setting that got replaced, it would have been that one, not Forgotten Realms.
@@RichesandLiches You state that the Nentir Vale was an attempt by WotC to erase the Forgotten Realms despite 4E having a release of a Forgotten Realms campaign sourcebook within two months of the edition's release, which at the time was the fastest turnaround between a new edition release and a Forgotten Realms source book, as well as the many, many Forgotten Realms-specific articles in Dragon/Dungeon magazines, including dozens written by Ed Greenwood himself. You might claim that putting so much of its Forgotten Realms content in the online magazines was a shameless attempt to sell DnD Insider accounts, but I don't think having the second or third most amount of content, behind Core stuff and maybe setting agnostic stuff along the lines of "new combat options", "how to include ships into your campaign", and "resolving skill challenges" can be considered "trying to erase/replace". Furthermore, I find a lot of your complaints about 4E lore to be annoying because they fail to make distinctions between different campaign settings. An earlier video called the idea that the Primordials created the world "Nerathi lies" despite the fact that in context, you're the only one who claimed they created Abeir-Toril, when the actual 4E lore from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide never claims that, and instead establishes that the Primordials involved in Realmspace found the worlds of Abeir-Tori's solar system and coveted them, and the native gods didn't like this and fought to stop them (primordials created different worlds, not Abeir-Toril). Your video on Io/Asgorath calls the 4E lore on him confusing and contradictory, specifically the part involving his death at the hands of Erek-Hus, and tries to come up with a way to "reconcile" the lore, despite the fact that Forgotten Realms Io and Nentir Vale Io are two different characters (or at least different incarnations of the same character, the same way Tobey Maguire Spiderman isn't the same person as Andrew Garfield Spiderman, who isn't the same person as Tom Holland Spiderman), and therefore can have different backgrounds and fates. The first time Io's death was mentioned in a Forgotten Realms specific sourcebook was the 5E Sword Coast Adventure's Guide, and it was one of three dragonborn creation myths, and the only one that explicitly mentions his death, with the others leaving it open for Io to be a living if distant and uncaring god. Bane is a god that exists in Nentir Vale and Forgotten Realms, but they explicitly state in a Dragon Magazine article that these are two different deities merely with similar names and thematic overlap, and I don't see why any of the other gods would be any different unless they specifically make that claim. As for my point regarding Greyhawk, Greyhawk has a better claim of being erased/supplanted by 4E's Points of Light setting since it was Core for a large chunk of DnD's history, and even then, it still got a fair amount of attention in that edition too, whether it was in the aforementioned Dragon/Dungeon Magazines or the Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium book. And I wouldn't necessarily call Points of Light dead and buried, as although it's definitely pretty far back on the back burner, it did get a mention in the DMG (redubbed the Dawn War campaign setting) and several Primordials get name-dropped as alternatives to the Princes of Elemental Evil that renegade giant cultists can serve. PS: If I've posted this before, sorry, but on my end it looks like youtube ate my post.
You are not wrong! I have learned a lot in the last 6 months, the community here has really become a strong asset to my work and i think the format and pacing of my recent videos reflects that. I believe you will find that volume 7 in the series is more to the expected pace. And while many of these older videos are due for a refresh/remaster, my cup "overflowith" at the moment, but they are will get corrected at some point. Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughts, I take all thoughtful comments very seriously.
I have always seen the Withering Devil as a manifestation of a Druid who died Angry and alone resenting the destruction of the glade or Forrest they sought to protect. Specifically, one that lost their home to the "progress" of mankind in the development of cities and such.
I really like this take, could see a druid bound for hell "negotiating" this form of afterlife in the fugue plane as they await judgement and collection. :)
I really have to say that I really like and appreciate extra critters. I feel that most of the demons and devils, just like the dragons, are a known and obvious threat that literally every player can recognize and can look up if they don’t already know.
Having things that are different and outside the the categorized pidgin hole adds to much more to the game.
Having them use the religion, arcana, and research skills can add so much to the story.
Finding out why the local blacksmith was found in the back of his storeroom curled into a ball weeping. It is a beautiful bright sunny morning, his business is going well, he is loved and popular in the town. His family is healthy and happy. Every indication is that everything is going very well. Yet he is miserable. Had been grumpy and sullen all week yet nobody knows why and as usual people don’t want to push or be rude. It’s probably just something personal and none of their business. He’ll come around soon.
His youngest son had been running the storefront of the smithery for a couple of days now and is obviously worried and vexed.
The smith hasn’t slept in days and his face is puffy yet shockingly grey. His strong form is sitting in the dark corner, light seems to offend him and any attempts cheer him up or comfort him result in a swift shutdown his despair and depression are evident.
Did a party member notice the cloaked figure walking by as they talked to the boy at first? A cloud passed over and no direct light shone on them. It was brief and maybe without seeing it a party member or two felt a bit sad hearted or a bit nauseous. It passes quickly…
An outland devil has come for his payment.
Let’s go I’ve been waiting for this!! Great work, thanks!
A thought: Perhaps on the free tier of your Patreon you could post the entire list of devils, possibly divided into Outlanders and hierarchy with the fan favorite art depicting each type so that there’s a complete listing for easier reference.
Dangit, gotta work today.
*RICHES AND LICHES SLEEP GANG* -Sadly later tho-
Glorious day for a deal with a devil
Like a fine wine on an early morning!
Fiendishly tasty lore
Brilliant video as always. Hellfire wyrms are my favorite fiend variety. I use them as the ringleader of groups of rakshas as goups of soul devouring spies.
Also are rakshasa outsider devils?
A great question and one I was on the fence about including. I have already researched quite a bit and will be doing a dedicated video on them.
They are definitely fiends and outsiders... but there is lore that suggests they have lineage to devils, demons and even daemons so I left them off.
But I think you can certainly make the case either way, something I will address when their "Monster Lab" episode comes out :)
GREAT question, thank you!
@@RichesandLiches can't wait for that monster lab! Thanks!
Good Soulrider Devil Come into me please Own me Live in me Feed through me Possess me Control me Merge with me Become me Ride me my Master
I would very much like more lore and secrets about the 9 Hells and the Shelves of Despond, also how devils torture souls do they use time loop magic or are there special places in hell where time loops exist or are there unique special devils that create time loops to torture souls?🤔 otherwise they will destroy and use up souls if they dont have or use time loops to torture them and milk their torments and suffering for power/magical energy. A time loop will create endless fuel by/for torturing souls and resetting time to restore the soul so it can be tortured over and over again. I want more rare lore of The Hells and Abyss💖 Also does there exist a supreme library/infernal library in Hell (similar to Candlekeep) with every and all knowledge and lore that exist throughout the universe/multiverse? Because devils are totally the type that would hoard and treasure knowledge and everyone knows knowledge is power. Sorry for ranting and my weird questions/requests🙈
I will be doing a series of videos on the Abyss, once the Nine Hells series wraps up.
Thanks
Thank you so much! /bow
I love these made up fantasy words like Orthon and Hiearchy
Well i guess we can debate on the proper pronounciation on "Orthon" ... but we will just have to agree to disagree on Hierarchy.
Thanks for watching and commenting regardless. :)
@@RichesandLichesand ty for replying, I'm a big fan :D
I love this channel and I’m working my way through all your videos. They’re extremely well researched and thorough, and your commitment to keeping them sponsor free is commendable to say the least. I do however take issue with your reliance on AI generated art. The disclaimer at the beginning of the video states that all images, unless otherwise specified, are property of the channel. The thing is, they’re not. I’m not sure about the legal side and I’m not speaking to that. I mean morally, ethically, they are not your images. AI art is generated using real humans’ art, oftentimes artists who do not give consent for their work to be used, let alone given proper compensation. I understand that a lot of the topics you cover simply do not have a litany of images you can pull from, and that you have to supplement this somehow. What I don’t understand is why you don’t make an effort to use real human art where possible. At the very least, you could use your platform to shout out small artists for the unpaid labor they do for you to feed these image generation models. Idk, it’s a very complicated issue especially when you’re a small channel with such a huge scope. I imagine the background art is not high on your priority list compared to the extensive amount of work you put into research for these videos. Anyway, that’s my two cents on the matter. Again though, really fantastic videos.
@emmaprofitt9772 - I think we agree on a lot more than we disagree and either way I completely understand your position. My disclaimer at the end of the videos is intended to illustrate the commercial licenses that I have as opposed to any type of free art or free art generation.
I pay over four figures annually so that I have the properties granted by the license, which says that I have ownership. And while I agree that a lot in still up in the air, I am just including the language I am allowed until things are more settled.
I personally believe (and hope) that in a few years this will be settled where artists can, just like the RIAA, get a cut from profits and if that means that the consumers like myself pay more, then so be it.
Thanks for taking the time to make your feelings known, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
@@RichesandLiches thanks so much for responding in such a respectful way, I really appreciate your behind the scenes insight because I’ll be honest, I didn’t know about a lot of the things you said, so i definitely learned something. You have clearly put a lot of thought into the decision to use this type image, and I really appreciate you explaining some of the ins and outs to me.
First?
I looked for the patreon link. Is it in this area?
Its in the notes of every video and on the front page, here is the link - patreon.com/RichesandLiches
Thanks for your support
2nd 😢
Seared Devils…yikes.
~_~
13:10 "To erase the Forgotten Realms with their horribly ill-conceived 'Points of Light' campaign setting."
Dude, 3rd Edition's default campaign setting was a stripped down Greyhawk. Stop acting like FR was the only campaign setting they worked on.
Not really sure what you mean by "acting" any certain way or what your actual point was here.
I am well aware of and played in the 3e Greyhawk setting and while I agree it was watered down and even worthy of criticism, I do not see the correalation you are trying to make to my comments as they are wholly unrelated.
I was not commenting on "any and all" setting issues or scorn, the context of my comment was directly tied to the Tar Devil which was part of/introduced with the Points of Light setting. Had the Tar Devil been introduced in the 3e Greyhawk setting then the comment would obviously have been different... although I - personally - found the Nentir Vale to be far worse than the "watered down" Greyhawk setting, but that is a matter of personal opinion.
Still... thank you for taking the time to comment.
@@RichesandLiches You stated that the Nentir Vale campaign setting was an attempt by Wizards to replace/erase the Forgotten Realms. This is in spite of the fact that 4E had the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting released within 2 months of the edition's release, which at the time was the fastest turnaround between an edition release and a Forgotten Realms campaign book release, as well as the dozens of Dragon Magazine and Dungeon Magazine articles, which included character profiles, backdrops, adventure modules, and Ed Greenwood's Eye on the Realms columns. You could argue that sticking the vast majority of their Forgotten Realms material in their online magazines was a shameless attempt to sell D&D Insider accounts, but they did not try to erase or replace it.
Furthermore, I've found that a lot of your claims in previous videos regarding the "contradictory" lore of 4E, whether it's Io's death at the hands of Erek-Hus or the Primordials creation of the world which you described as "Nerathi lies" grating because those events took place in an entirely different campaign setting, often using similarly-named and themed but ultimately separate characters. The first time a Forgotten Realms work (not the Nentir Vale/Dawn War campaign setting) mentioned Io's death was in one of three dragonborn creation myths in the 5E Sword Coast Adventure's Guide, only one of which explicitly mentions his death, with the others leaving open the possibility that Io is a distant and uncaring but still living god. Meanwhile, the claim that the Primordials created Abeir-Toril and the other worlds of the solar system (even as a bullshit narrative) isn't even supported by the 4E book Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, as it claims they merely found and coveted them, and the native gods had taken issue with their attempts to seize their worlds. Primordials created different worlds than Abeir-Toril, and near as I can tell, there was never a claim otherwise.
As for my point regarding Greyhawk, I was saying that if there was a campaign setting that got replaced, it would have been that one, not Forgotten Realms.
@@RichesandLiches You state that the Nentir Vale was an attempt by WotC to erase the Forgotten Realms despite 4E having a release of a Forgotten Realms campaign sourcebook within two months of the edition's release, which at the time was the fastest turnaround between a new edition release and a Forgotten Realms source book, as well as the many, many Forgotten Realms-specific articles in Dragon/Dungeon magazines, including dozens written by Ed Greenwood himself. You might claim that putting so much of its Forgotten Realms content in the online magazines was a shameless attempt to sell DnD Insider accounts, but I don't think having the second or third most amount of content, behind Core stuff and maybe setting agnostic stuff along the lines of "new combat options", "how to include ships into your campaign", and "resolving skill challenges" can be considered "trying to erase/replace".
Furthermore, I find a lot of your complaints about 4E lore to be annoying because they fail to make distinctions between different campaign settings. An earlier video called the idea that the Primordials created the world "Nerathi lies" despite the fact that in context, you're the only one who claimed they created Abeir-Toril, when the actual 4E lore from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide never claims that, and instead establishes that the Primordials involved in Realmspace found the worlds of Abeir-Tori's solar system and coveted them, and the native gods didn't like this and fought to stop them (primordials created different worlds, not Abeir-Toril). Your video on Io/Asgorath calls the 4E lore on him confusing and contradictory, specifically the part involving his death at the hands of Erek-Hus, and tries to come up with a way to "reconcile" the lore, despite the fact that Forgotten Realms Io and Nentir Vale Io are two different characters (or at least different incarnations of the same character, the same way Tobey Maguire Spiderman isn't the same person as Andrew Garfield Spiderman, who isn't the same person as Tom Holland Spiderman), and therefore can have different backgrounds and fates. The first time Io's death was mentioned in a Forgotten Realms specific sourcebook was the 5E Sword Coast Adventure's Guide, and it was one of three dragonborn creation myths, and the only one that explicitly mentions his death, with the others leaving it open for Io to be a living if distant and uncaring god. Bane is a god that exists in Nentir Vale and Forgotten Realms, but they explicitly state in a Dragon Magazine article that these are two different deities merely with similar names and thematic overlap, and I don't see why any of the other gods would be any different unless they specifically make that claim.
As for my point regarding Greyhawk, Greyhawk has a better claim of being erased/supplanted by 4E's Points of Light setting since it was Core for a large chunk of DnD's history, and even then, it still got a fair amount of attention in that edition too, whether it was in the aforementioned Dragon/Dungeon Magazines or the Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium book. And I wouldn't necessarily call Points of Light dead and buried, as although it's definitely pretty far back on the back burner, it did get a mention in the DMG (redubbed the Dawn War campaign setting) and several Primordials get name-dropped as alternatives to the Princes of Elemental Evil that renegade giant cultists can serve.
PS: If I've posted this before, sorry, but on my end it looks like youtube ate my post.
I'm in volume 6.5... please stop wasting time caveating your content. Half the video is you qualifying the video. Just let the idiots complain.
You are not wrong!
I have learned a lot in the last 6 months, the community here has really become a strong asset to my work and i think the format and pacing of my recent videos reflects that.
I believe you will find that volume 7 in the series is more to the expected pace. And while many of these older videos are due for a refresh/remaster, my cup "overflowith" at the moment, but they are will get corrected at some point.
Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughts, I take all thoughtful comments very seriously.