I will add one more- when Paul and Silas were chained in prison, what instruments did they have? What worship leader stood up and directed them? I can imagine Paul singing melody, and Silas in harmony, and both of them exalting the name of Christ both in word and in music, that could not be recreated in any other means. They didn't need any other assistance than what they've been doing all along. If any of us ever finds ourself in persecution, will we be able to lift our voices, acapella, without a song sheet, without a leader/director, and be able to worship Christ in the same way that moves both heaven and earth? Something to strive for.....
All the hours spent in perfecting the band etc etc approach CAN be a distraction from important devotional, service, evangelism AND family time. Modern Western church is overly complicated to the extreme. Counterfactual: I'd imagine a church could get PRIDE in their vocal dexterity. Not ideal. Lastly, my Scottish Geslic forebears sung, and still sing now, in a 'drone' accapella style. Beautiful, simple, participative. I was 30 years in evangelical churches, mostly with bands. Not any longer.
Thank you so much for the is video! You did a fantastic job of providing compelling reasons for keeping the acappella tradition without a judgemental spirit towards those who don’t hold the same views. These conversations often become heated quickly; thank you for doing it so graciously.
I grew up and am still attending a Conservative Mennonite Church; I have always wondered why we didnt incorporate musical instruments in our worship, and it all makes so much more sense now! Thanks for insight on a topic I have long wondered about!
Four part harmony is very beautiful and is something we don't want to lose. There are also worship leaders that do very well to bring the congregation into a feeling of awe and worship and can touch hearts in a way that congregational singing does not. For someone who is not musically talented, struggling to stay on tune can consume so much thought that the meaning is lost. That person can take in the meaning more if there is a praise and worship band. I think there is a place for both in our services. God bless you very sharing. We enjoy your videos and hope to see many more!
Or, have the parts to familiar hymns on separate tracks for individuals to be able to sing along with and learn their parts. Anything that encourages, edifies and educates. All good!
Hey Mr. Drudge, I really liked this video!!! Especially reason NO 1, NO 5 and NO 6 #1- when I have attended your church (GT) I noticed that it took more effort on my part to sing to God, while at my church with a band, many of us do sing our hearts out, however many others don't, creating a congregation in which only half are singing praises to God!!! #5- I personally play in our church band, while I personally play to serve the Lord, I almost get discouraged when others come up to me after the service and tell me how well I played my instrument, because the focus is spoused to be on God (or I feel proud of myself for playing so well, which is also VERY bad). #6- As I already said I play in my church band, and requires many hours a month in practicing to make it sound nice (hours that could be spent praying or reading my bible) and Instrument cost a lot of money, Example our church bought our grand piano in 2001 and it cost $50,0000, which could have been spent else where!!!!! I hope you have a FANTASTIC day!!!!
I grew up in the Mennonite church where acapella singing was the norm. Attending a Baptist church now, and there seems to be a "requirement" for a piano at minimum, and an organ if at all possible. Unfortunately, although the musicians are willing, they are not necessarily "able", and often, instead of worshipping with our voices, we are discouraged and just sing along to get it over with. Too many skills of worship are lost today- singing, congregational Scripture reading (unison and response), public praying.... No one wants to emphasize it, and no one wants to put in the effort to "give of their best to the Lord". This is why I appreciate your channel so much. Showing the beauty of voices, with outstanding harmonies, that are not only pleasant to listen to, but the words are clear and understood.
@@TrevorDrudge Not long ago, we sang the song in church Have I Done My Best for Jesus? As we moved through the song, I had to evaluate every aspect of my life and realize that I need to put a lot more effort into a lot more areas. As I posted below on another comment, Jesus does not require "THE" best, but He does require "my" best. I wonder have I done my best for Jesus, Who died upon the cruel tree? To think of His great sacrifice at Calvary! I know my Lord expects the best from me. Refrain: How many are the lost that I have lifted? How many are the chained I’ve helped to free? I wonder, have I done my best for Jesus, When He has done so much for me? The hours that I have wasted are so many The hours I’ve spent for Christ so few; Because of all my lack of love for Jesus, I wonder if His heart is breaking too. I wonder have I cared enough for others, Or have I let them die alone? I might have helped a wand’rer to the Saviour, The seed of precious Life I might have sown. No longer will I stay within the valley I’ll climb to mountain heights above; The world is dying now for want of someone To tell them of the Saviour’s matchless love.
This is well done brother! We have something precious we don’t want to lose!! How can we encourage congregational singing in the future? Should we do better at including new songs written recently by Anabaptist song writers? Also- have you read the book “melodious accord” by Alice Parker? It’s a book about efforts to restore ground lost on congregational singing
These are great questions. I think organizations like Shenandoah Christian Music Camp are doing a lot to help develop the skills in our congregations to perpetuate a cappella singing. Any ideas on how we could include more new songs? I like the idea, but how do you implement it well?
I appreciate the efforts I see from song writers today writing songs that fill in some theological gaps in our older hymn books. Is occasionally singing a song or two from them in a chorus or school program enough to keep them inspired to keep writing? I’m also not in favor of getting new song books every five years. I have more questions than answers!
Growing up in the Reformed tradition we always had organs & pianos, and I enjoy that. I have never been a fan of bands leading as we can often think we are being entertained vs singing praise. I would like to someday be able to experience the four part harmony in a gathering. I know when I was younger, our young peoples group would often sing without accompaniment of instrument, but often there was a guitar as well. I know in the old testament, there were stringed instruments mentioned, but never said were used in the formal worship or not. Wishing you a great year and look forward to your postings. 👍
I attend the services in a church of God congregation in Germany. We sing a cappella in our services aswell. I for myself think that is the best way to sing for the glory of God. Another good reason for singing a capella is that you can sing it everywhere, in the car, while working, and so on... and that is great.
Good morning Trevor. I have enjoyed many of your videos and actually know a fair amount of the people who sang on the "How Many Kings" video. I also enjoyed your points here and appreciate your passion for Christ honoring singing both in appropriate sound and sound lyrics. Keep up the good work! I would love to meet in person sometime. One correction, the words you posted for point 6 are the same as the words for point 5. God bless! Calvin Yoder
having been raised in and still a part of the church of christ, I understand fully the points you make. I personally am no long in the anti-instrument camp, but my church is acapella and I don't think I'd want it any other way. There is no instrument that can add to the beauty of 4 part acapella harmony. I learned to read shape notes many years ago, and at the age of 62 I still do, as the worship leader for my home church. It truly is a shame that that kind of thing is no longer being taught. But I'll sing it that way for the rest of my life.
I grew up in a setting where only a cappella in corporate worship was allowed, however I am now in a Mennonite group where instruments are permitted in corporate worship. The difference I see it has made is when instruments are not used properly (i.e. bad timing etc) They become a huge distraction and it “takes away” from the whole reason we are doing what we are doing, worshiping God.
A year ago we moved from a traditional Mennonite singing-church to a smaller group with some instruments and minimal 4-part acapella singing. I have struggled a bit with this - not wanting my children to forget the hymns/harmony. I really dont want to be intrusive (as a newbie coming in) but am considering having a dedicated hymn-sing time. I think most would enjoy that. What are your thoughts or ideas you may have?
I appreciate the human voice I find it very annoying when the voice is drowned out by instruments When you sing without instruments you are listening to your fellow voices trying to blend for a unified sound I think this helps promote unity and sharing It’s a beautiful experience
Singing with instruments is great but I’ve noticed churches that use instruments tend to lose the ability to sing in harmony. No disrespect but it’s true
Great question. Personally, I think that if the church has the skills to be able to sing acappella, they should! But if they don’t, there is a place for an instrument or two to help carry the songs.
The menno churches I am part of most of the congregants do not listen to acappella music so the singing four part Harmony is being lost rapidly? A lot of menno churches are struggling to find song leaders .
Not sure I have answers. Just an observation. But could music be taught more in schools and homes that are musically inclined teach their children and practice more ? Some groups and schools are pretty good at passing this on.
One tiny little nit to pick. Many Mennonite churches use instruments in their worship services. The one I used to attend had some excellent flute players, guitar players, pianists, etc. Not quite a symphony but wonderful music to accompany the singing.
I do not find the Regulative Principle in Scripture, nor do I find it logical in general. While musical instruments are not commanded in the New Testament, neither are song books, musical notation, or singing in four-part harmony. Likely, the Early Church sang in unison in more of a chant. Should we also forbid harmony because the New Testament doesn't command it? Should we forbid songbooks or hymnals because they are not commanded in the New Testament? Finny Kuruvilla, who is not a Mennonite, uses this "Principle" in his book to also exclude us from practicing Christmas. Mennonites want to avoid the secularization of Christmas but see nothing in Scripture that forbids the observance of a simple Christmas. Instead of the Regulative/Legalistic Principle which forbids everything not commanded or the Normative Principle which says that everything is permissible that is not forbidden in Scripture, I have seen Conservative Mennonites hold to an Application Principle: where the Bible expressly commands or forbids something, we need say no further; where the New Testament does not specifically speak, we look for principles that would help us in making Biblical applications. For example, musical instruments are not commanded in the New Testament, but we are called to simplicity in worship. Since we want to follow simplicity, we refrain from using instruments in our corporate worship while not legalistically condemning those who do. I fear that the Regulative Principle (which is not commanded in Scripture and thus forbidden if we follow its own ruling) can lead to a Pharisaical and legalistic form of Christianity. I do appreciate our practice of acapella singing.
Good points Elmer. I have wondered too how far the RP is to be taken. Or if it is a legitimate principle or not. Thanks for introducing me to the "Application Principle"
Interesting. One kindly question, if I may. Genesis 4:1 indicates musical instruments were used and played before the Mosaic Law covenant. Exodus 15:20 relates how Mariam used a tamborine 9yeh, maybe not very 'musical') apparently just before the instituting of the Mosaic Law (kind of "iffy" though). True, the Old Mosaic Law was fulfilled in Christ and no longer practiced, if musical instruments were used before the Mosaic Law, wouldn't that demonstrate musical instruments are fine to use and certainly an acceptable art for godly humans to take up, including in worshipping God? (Not to mention things like video cameras, internet and such.) Thanks
I grew up in Central Pennsylvania. Bottom line they considered instruments in church wicked & worldly. Just like they used to paint the hub caps and chrome door handles back as shiny was too ostentatious.
We sing a capella because NT scripture does not include the use of instruments. If the early founders of the church wanted instruments they would have either shown or included it in word or example. That being said, we mere humans always discovers the truth behind the reason after we lose focus on what God wants.
Quoting another comment by @elmerrodes2819: "I do not find the Regulative Principle in Scripture, nor do I find it logical in general. While musical instruments are not commanded in the New Testament, neither are song books, musical notation, or singing in four-part harmony. Likely, the Early Church sang in unison in more of a chant. Should we also forbid harmony because the New Testament doesn't command it? Should we forbid songbooks or hymnals because they are not commanded in the New Testament?"
this sounds very similar to the "churches of Christ". How does Mennonite theology differ from them? Both sing acapella, both seem to be congregational in polity, both reject infant baptsm etc
I don’t know that much about the Churches of Christ, but it does sound similar. “Two kingdom theology” is another thing that is central to Mennonite thought.
The Two Kingdom Belief, which says there are two kingdoms, one spiritual and Heavenly kingdom with Jesus as Lord and the other kingdom includes the kingdoms of this world which are controlled by the evil one, is a belief held closely with the concept of Nonresistance. As Conservative Mennonites we refuse to participate in warfare or politics because Christ's kingdom is not of this world. The CoC believes that Immersion is the only valid form of baptism and that it saves. Conservative Mennonites generally believe that water baptism (often practiced by the mideast of pouring since the Holy Spirit is poured out on believers) is a symbol of an inward change that has taken place. We do not see the water itself as saving, but rather as the answer of a right
conscience toward God. 1 Pt 3:21. Also, Conservative Mennonites believe in dressing simply, modestly, and distinct from the World. There are many things that Conservative Mennonites and the Church of Christ agree with. Both focus on obeying the Bible and believe that we can loose our salvation if we live carelessly. We both believe in simple worship. It is interesting to note that even some Church of Christ leaders were nonresistant. Chuck Pike is part of a Church of Christ that has taken on many Conservative Mennonite/Anabaptist practices.
People are given different gifts according to Paul's writings in the Bible. Some people are blessed with being able to read music and sing well. Others...not so much. For them, a worship team and/or leader is a way they get more from the songs. For those who can sing well, they can get a lot from singing the words themselves. As we put our gifts and strengths together in the church of Christ, we can do great things together, and God is glorified through it all. And I just want you to know that your music is an inspiration to us!
Our old church used to have meetings for people to come and "learn to sing". Parts were broken down, and you sat with others who sang the same part as you were working on. Lots of iron sharpening iron, but lots of friendships forged in the practice. Now, we just say it's too hard and we don't give any effort at all. I'm afraid that when we look our Savior in the face, we will realize that we should have given our best, even if it wasn't "THE" best. He rewards for faithfulness, not for outcome. Singing parts is hard for me, but I give it my all. Singing along with these videos is a great help. All I can pray is, Lord, be strong in my weakness.
Or is it less about having a great singing voice and more about whether or not we have a song in our hearts? I believe a song offered from the heart as a sacrifice of praise to the Creator who made the voice will be a sweet savor to Him! Whether it sounds perfect to our human ears or not…
Where did you come up with some of this? It's like you had a viewpoint and then had to back into a reason. Worship bands have nothing to do with the reason for Mennonite's belief in no musical instruments. They believed that long before worship bands.
I came up with it by discussing with a variety of different Mennonites why we don’t have musical instruments. Are all the reasons good? Some probably better than others. I’m curious what you think the main reasons are?
Do you have any other reasons to add?
I will add one more- when Paul and Silas were chained in prison, what instruments did they have? What worship leader stood up and directed them? I can imagine Paul singing melody, and Silas in harmony, and both of them exalting the name of Christ both in word and in music, that could not be recreated in any other means. They didn't need any other assistance than what they've been doing all along.
If any of us ever finds ourself in persecution, will we be able to lift our voices, acapella, without a song sheet, without a leader/director, and be able to worship Christ in the same way that moves both heaven and earth? Something to strive for.....
Thanks for that.
@@RKG64 And if in such a situation, I don't think it will matter how well we sing
All the hours spent in perfecting the band etc etc approach CAN be a distraction from important devotional, service, evangelism AND family time. Modern Western church is overly complicated to the extreme.
Counterfactual: I'd imagine a church could get PRIDE in their vocal dexterity. Not ideal.
Lastly, my Scottish Geslic forebears sung, and still sing now, in a 'drone' accapella style. Beautiful, simple, participative.
I was 30 years in evangelical churches, mostly with bands. Not any longer.
Thank you so much for the is video! You did a fantastic job of providing compelling reasons for keeping the acappella tradition without a judgemental spirit towards those who don’t hold the same views. These conversations often become heated quickly; thank you for doing it so graciously.
Thank you! I always want to leave space for opposing view points.
I grew up and am still attending a Conservative Mennonite Church; I have always wondered why we didnt incorporate musical instruments in our worship, and it all makes so much more sense now! Thanks for insight on a topic I have long wondered about!
Four part harmony is very beautiful and is something we don't want to lose. There are also worship leaders that do very well to bring the congregation into a feeling of awe and worship and can touch hearts in a way that congregational singing does not. For someone who is not musically talented, struggling to stay on tune can consume so much thought that the meaning is lost. That person can take in the meaning more if there is a praise and worship band. I think there is a place for both in our services. God bless you very sharing. We enjoy your videos and hope to see many more!
I appreciate that perspective! I can see how that would be the case.
Next video idea?
Practical song leading tips for inspiring congregational singing
Or, have the parts to familiar hymns on separate tracks for individuals to be able to sing along with and learn their parts.
Anything that encourages, edifies and educates. All good!
Great suggestion!
I appreciate you insight on this topic
Thanks Austin!
Hey you are getting good at these videos! Keep up the good work.
Thanks Travis!
Hey Mr. Drudge, I really liked this video!!! Especially reason NO 1, NO 5 and NO 6
#1- when I have attended your church (GT) I noticed that it took more effort on my part to sing to God, while at my church with a band, many of us do sing our hearts out, however many others don't, creating a congregation in which only half are singing praises to God!!! #5- I personally play in our church band, while I personally play to serve the Lord, I almost get discouraged when others come up to me after the service and tell me how well I played my instrument, because the focus is spoused to be on God (or I feel proud of myself for playing so well, which is also VERY bad). #6- As I already said I play in my church band, and requires many hours a month in practicing to make it sound nice (hours that could be spent praying or reading my bible) and Instrument cost a lot of money, Example our church bought our grand piano in 2001 and it cost $50,0000, which could have been spent else where!!!!! I hope you have a FANTASTIC day!!!!
Hi Haley, good to hear from you again! Thanks for your comment. Thanks, you too!
I grew up in the Mennonite church where acapella singing was the norm. Attending a Baptist church now, and there seems to be a "requirement" for a piano at minimum, and an organ if at all possible. Unfortunately, although the musicians are willing, they are not necessarily "able", and often, instead of worshipping with our voices, we are discouraged and just sing along to get it over with.
Too many skills of worship are lost today- singing, congregational Scripture reading (unison and response), public praying.... No one wants to emphasize it, and no one wants to put in the effort to "give of their best to the Lord".
This is why I appreciate your channel so much. Showing the beauty of voices, with outstanding harmonies, that are not only pleasant to listen to, but the words are clear and understood.
That is interesting. I agree, it does require intentional effort to give our best to the LORD.
@@TrevorDrudge Not long ago, we sang the song in church Have I Done My Best for Jesus?
As we moved through the song, I had to evaluate every aspect of my life and realize that I need to put a lot more effort into a lot more areas. As I posted below on another comment, Jesus does not require "THE" best, but He does require "my" best.
I wonder have I done my best for Jesus,
Who died upon the cruel tree?
To think of His great sacrifice at Calvary!
I know my Lord expects the best from me.
Refrain:
How many are the lost that I have lifted?
How many are the chained I’ve helped to free?
I wonder, have I done my best for Jesus,
When He has done so much for me?
The hours that I have wasted are so many
The hours I’ve spent for Christ so few;
Because of all my lack of love for Jesus,
I wonder if His heart is breaking too.
I wonder have I cared enough for others,
Or have I let them die alone?
I might have helped a wand’rer to the Saviour,
The seed of precious Life I might have sown.
No longer will I stay within the valley
I’ll climb to mountain heights above;
The world is dying now for want of someone
To tell them of the Saviour’s matchless love.
Amen!
@@TrevorDrudge The words of David in 2 Samuel 24:24 neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the Lord my God of that which doth cost me nothing.
This is well done brother!
We have something precious we don’t want to lose!!
How can we encourage congregational singing in the future?
Should we do better at including new songs written recently by Anabaptist song writers?
Also- have you read the book “melodious accord” by Alice Parker? It’s a book about efforts to restore ground lost on congregational singing
These are great questions. I think organizations like Shenandoah Christian Music Camp are doing a lot to help develop the skills in our congregations to perpetuate a cappella singing. Any ideas on how we could include more new songs? I like the idea, but how do you implement it well?
I'm not familiar with the book. I'll have to check it out.
I appreciate the efforts I see from song writers today writing songs that fill in some theological gaps in our older hymn books.
Is occasionally singing a song or two from them in a chorus or school program enough to keep them inspired to keep writing?
I’m also not in favor of getting new song books every five years.
I have more questions than answers!
Interesting. Thanks for sharing Trevor. I was actually curious about this after attending your dad's church.
You're welcome Wayne!
Growing up in the Reformed tradition we always had organs & pianos, and I enjoy that. I have never been a fan of bands leading as we can often think we are being entertained vs singing praise. I would like to someday be able to experience the four part harmony in a gathering. I know when I was younger, our young peoples group would often sing without accompaniment of instrument, but often there was a guitar as well. I know in the old testament, there were stringed instruments mentioned, but never said were used in the formal worship or not. Wishing you a great year and look forward to your postings. 👍
Hopefully you can experience that sometime!
I attend the services in a church of God congregation in Germany. We sing a cappella in our services aswell. I for myself think that is the best way to sing for the glory of God. Another good reason for singing a capella is that you can sing it everywhere, in the car, while working, and so on... and that is great.
Good morning Trevor. I have enjoyed many of your videos and actually know a fair amount of the people who sang on the "How Many Kings" video. I also enjoyed your points here and appreciate your passion for Christ honoring singing both in appropriate sound and sound lyrics. Keep up the good work! I would love to meet in person sometime. One correction, the words you posted for point 6 are the same as the words for point 5. God bless! Calvin Yoder
Thanks for noticing that Calvin! I will have to proof more carefully next time!
having been raised in and still a part of the church of christ, I understand fully the points you make. I personally am no long in the anti-instrument camp, but my church is acapella and I don't think I'd want it any other way. There is no instrument that can add to the beauty of 4 part acapella harmony. I learned to read shape notes many years ago, and at the age of 62 I still do, as the worship leader for my home church. It truly is a shame that that kind of thing is no longer being taught. But I'll sing it that way for the rest of my life.
I grew up in a setting where only a cappella in corporate worship was allowed, however I am now in a Mennonite group where instruments are permitted in corporate worship. The difference I see it has made is when instruments are not used properly (i.e. bad timing etc) They become a huge distraction and it “takes away” from the whole reason we are doing what we are doing, worshiping God.
That sounds good thank you
yes, your grandpa mentioned to me one time that we sing unto the Lord and not listen to somebody else. Gary Roth
Hey Gary, that’s interesting. Thanks for mentioning that
A year ago we moved from a traditional Mennonite singing-church to a smaller group with some instruments and minimal 4-part acapella singing.
I have struggled a bit with this - not wanting my children to forget the hymns/harmony.
I really dont want to be intrusive (as a newbie coming in) but am considering having a dedicated hymn-sing time. I think most would enjoy that.
What are your thoughts or ideas you may have?
By the way, I really appreciate this video!
You do not come across in a condeming way as is too easy to do when handling this subject.
I appreciate the human voice
I find it very annoying when the voice is drowned out by instruments
When you sing without instruments you are listening to your fellow voices trying to blend for a unified sound
I think this helps promote unity and sharing
It’s a beautiful experience
Singing with instruments is great but I’ve noticed churches that use instruments tend to lose the ability to sing in harmony. No disrespect but it’s true
Interesting observation!
Agreed 100%
Use it or lose it!
Very good. More and more churches are going away from acapella singing.
I do believe you get more people involved if you don't use instruments
Thanks for your perspective!
These are pretty good reasons. Hutterites sing in unisonal acapella only at church services.
Interesting! I didn't know that.
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Thank you for sharing your beliefs. I'm curious where you personally fall on this spectrum?
Great question. Personally, I think that if the church has the skills to be able to sing acappella, they should! But if they don’t, there is a place for an instrument or two to help carry the songs.
The menno churches I am part of most of the congregants do not listen to acappella music so the singing four part Harmony is being lost rapidly?
A lot of menno churches are struggling to find song leaders .
That is true. Any ideas about what could be done about that?
Not sure I have answers. Just an observation.
But could music be taught more in schools and homes that are musically inclined teach their children and practice more ?
Some groups and schools are pretty good at passing this on.
So do conservative Mennonite people choose to use instruments at home sometimes, even if they don't use them at church?
Why does God give the gift of playing an instrument and writing out music.
Music is good and helps with leading singing.
Valid point!
Great
One tiny little nit to pick. Many Mennonite churches use instruments in their worship services. The one I used to attend had some excellent flute players, guitar players, pianists, etc. Not quite a symphony but wonderful music to accompany the singing.
In my experience, the conference Mennonites (MCUSA and MCC) use instruments some, but the Conservative Mennonites don’t… My focus was on the CMs
Moreover, Reformed Presbuterians who hold to the RP, will limit songs only to the Hebrew Psalms.
Interesting!
I do not find the Regulative Principle in Scripture, nor do I find it logical in general. While musical instruments are not commanded in the New Testament, neither are song books, musical notation, or singing in four-part harmony. Likely, the Early Church sang in unison in more of a chant. Should we also forbid harmony because the New Testament doesn't command it? Should we forbid songbooks or hymnals because they are not commanded in the New Testament? Finny Kuruvilla, who is not a Mennonite, uses this "Principle" in his book to also exclude us from practicing Christmas. Mennonites want to avoid the secularization of Christmas but see nothing in Scripture that forbids the observance of a simple Christmas. Instead of the Regulative/Legalistic Principle which forbids everything not commanded or the Normative Principle which says that everything is permissible that is not forbidden in Scripture, I have seen Conservative Mennonites hold to an Application Principle: where the Bible expressly commands or forbids something, we need say no further; where the New Testament does not specifically speak, we look for principles that would help us in making Biblical applications. For example, musical instruments are not commanded in the New Testament, but we are called to simplicity in worship. Since we want to follow simplicity, we refrain from using instruments in our corporate worship while not legalistically condemning those who do. I fear that the Regulative Principle (which is not commanded in Scripture and thus forbidden if we follow its own ruling) can lead to a Pharisaical and legalistic form of Christianity. I do appreciate our practice of acapella singing.
Good points Elmer. I have wondered too how far the RP is to be taken. Or if it is a legitimate principle or not. Thanks for introducing me to the "Application Principle"
@elmerrodes You know what the best part is buddy? No one is forcing you to agree. chill out a little
Interesting. One kindly question, if I may. Genesis 4:1 indicates musical instruments were used and played before the Mosaic Law covenant. Exodus 15:20 relates how Mariam used a tamborine 9yeh, maybe not very 'musical') apparently just before the instituting of the Mosaic Law (kind of "iffy" though). True, the Old Mosaic Law was fulfilled in Christ and no longer practiced, if musical instruments were used before the Mosaic Law, wouldn't that demonstrate musical instruments are fine to use and certainly an acceptable art for godly humans to take up, including in worshipping God? (Not to mention things like video cameras, internet and such.) Thanks
I grew up in Central Pennsylvania.
Bottom line they considered instruments in church wicked & worldly.
Just like they used to paint the hub caps and chrome door handles back as shiny was too ostentatious.
Sorry meant to spell black. We always new those cars were owned by the Mennonites.
Some Presbyterian churches sing with out instruments.
Interesting. I didn't know that!
Yes! We in the Free Church Continuing hold to the regulative principle where we don't use them.
We sing a capella because NT scripture does not include the use of instruments. If the early founders of the church wanted instruments they would have either shown or included it in word or example. That being said, we mere humans always discovers the truth behind the reason after we lose focus on what God wants.
Thanks for your perspective!
Quoting another comment by @elmerrodes2819: "I do not find the Regulative Principle in Scripture, nor do I find it logical in general. While musical instruments are not commanded in the New Testament, neither are song books, musical notation, or singing in four-part harmony. Likely, the Early Church sang in unison in more of a chant. Should we also forbid harmony because the New Testament doesn't command it? Should we forbid songbooks or hymnals because they are not commanded in the New Testament?"
this sounds very similar to the "churches of Christ". How does Mennonite theology differ from them? Both sing acapella, both seem to be congregational in polity, both reject infant baptsm etc
I don’t know that much about the Churches of Christ, but it does sound similar. “Two kingdom theology” is another thing that is central to Mennonite thought.
@@TrevorDrudge what is Twom Kingdom Theology?
The Two Kingdom Belief, which says there are two kingdoms, one spiritual and Heavenly kingdom with Jesus as Lord and the other kingdom includes the kingdoms of this world which are controlled by the evil one, is a belief held closely with the concept of Nonresistance. As Conservative Mennonites we refuse to participate in warfare or politics because Christ's kingdom is not of this world. The CoC believes that Immersion is the only valid form of baptism and that it saves. Conservative Mennonites generally believe that water baptism (often practiced by the mideast of pouring since the Holy Spirit is poured out on believers) is a symbol of an inward change that has taken place. We do not see the water itself as saving, but rather as the answer of a right
conscience toward God. 1 Pt 3:21. Also, Conservative Mennonites believe in dressing simply, modestly, and distinct from the World. There are many things that Conservative Mennonites and the Church of Christ agree with. Both focus on obeying the Bible and believe that we can loose our salvation if we live carelessly. We both believe in simple worship. It is interesting to note that even some Church of Christ leaders were nonresistant. Chuck Pike is part of a Church of Christ that has taken on many Conservative Mennonite/Anabaptist practices.
(Chuck Pike's Church is A Church of Christ in Woburn youtube.com/@achurchofchristinwoburn1412?si=VsMajJnWD4lsslqx)
The word a capella is pronounced AWcapella. - ua-cam.com/video/69Q76PJwJkQ/v-deo.html
People are given different gifts according to Paul's writings in the Bible. Some people are blessed with being able to read music and sing well. Others...not so much. For them, a worship team and/or leader is a way they get more from the songs. For those who can sing well, they can get a lot from singing the words themselves. As we put our gifts and strengths together in the church of Christ, we can do great things together, and God is glorified through it all. And I just want you to know that your music is an inspiration to us!
Our old church used to have meetings for people to come and "learn to sing". Parts were broken down, and you sat with others who sang the same part as you were working on. Lots of iron sharpening iron, but lots of friendships forged in the practice.
Now, we just say it's too hard and we don't give any effort at all. I'm afraid that when we look our Savior in the face, we will realize that we should have given our best, even if it wasn't "THE" best. He rewards for faithfulness, not for outcome.
Singing parts is hard for me, but I give it my all. Singing along with these videos is a great help. All I can pray is, Lord, be strong in my weakness.
Thank you!
Or is it less about having a great singing voice and more about whether or not we have a song in our hearts?
I believe a song offered from the heart as a sacrifice of praise to the Creator who made the voice will be a sweet savor to Him!
Whether it sounds perfect to our human ears or not…
Where did you come up with some of this? It's like you had a viewpoint and then had to back into a reason. Worship bands have nothing to do with the reason for Mennonite's belief in no musical instruments. They believed that long before worship bands.
I came up with it by discussing with a variety of different Mennonites why we don’t have musical instruments. Are all the reasons good? Some probably better than others. I’m curious what you think the main reasons are?