Catholic Apologist Matt Fradd Answers My TOP OBJECTIONS to Catholicism
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- In this livestream, Matt Fradd from Pints with Aquinas listens and responds to my TOP 3 OBJECTIONS to Catholicism.
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Sorry about the potato quality of this livestream! This was my first (and last) time livestreaming with my iPad. I promise that the quality of my other videos is much, MUCH better. I also purchased a better mic that I can take with me when I travel. Thank you so much for watching the video. Do me a favor and subscribe to my channel if you haven't :)
The idea that (1) Mary is the mother of Jesus; (2) Jesus is God; (C) therefore, Mary is the mother of God seems to hinge on what we mean when we say that Jesus is God; however, when we remember that Jesus is not God in terms of identity, since that would be the Trinity, then Mary is not the mother of God when speaking of identity. Jesus is God in the sense that divinity is predicated of Him. When Jesus died, the Trinity did not die; therefore, God did not die. Similarly, when Jesus was born to Mary, the Trinity was not born to Mary; therefore, God was not born to Mary (at least in the sense of identity). You can still say that God died or was born to Mary, but only when speaking in terms of an *is* of predication rather than an *is* of identity.
At least, those are my thoughts on the subject.
Potato!! 🥔 lol
Capturing Christianity do you mean pitiful quality of the livestream? 🤔 I am listening on my phone and I think things are alright. But if you said the livestream is potato quality that’s hilarious 😆
bbryant0620 This is an interesting comment! I applaud your thoughtfulness. My reply is this: But God experienced birth, life as a human, and death. So no, Mary is not the Mother of God- she cannot create the Creator. But she was a mother to Him. She WAS (
@@Real_LiamOBryan Uhhhhhhh, you need to read Cyril of Alexandria. This is amazingly heretical!
Hey everyone, just wanted to thank you all for your comments and feedback. Cameron is a super awesome and sincere dude. You should subscribe this channel if you haven't already.
I am a Catholic and I found this discussion so enlightening! I am so surprised that I havent heard of Pints with Aquinas before today.
I will be checking out your videos now!!
I'm a Catholic. Already subscribed both of you
I just want you to know, Matt, that it’s this video and your witness that started my journey to the Catholic Church. So, God bless you and your ministry!
I am a Catholic from Pakistan. Enjoyed the civil discussion with out putting each other down. God bless you Matt and Cameron
Good to see a brother/sister Catholic from a neighbouring country. (An Indian Catholic).
@@dylna441 If you think this is interesting, maybe you wanna check this out :) >>ua-cam.com/video/R2xVXZ-KbTI/v-deo.html its a debate about who God is
@@dylna441 www.ipertisalithias.gr/index.php?cat=2&id=8&bg=18#article
Is it hard to be a Christian there?
@@dylna441 A convert or from a Christian family?
You're one of the few Protestants I have ever seen have an actual dialogue with Roman Catholic Christians instead of yelling at them about how "wrong" and "pagan" they are. Props to you, and God bless.
Check the Ten Minute Bible hour guy. He's just too ecumenical :-D
I do, often. But I’ve seen the Protestants you’re talking about. It does go both ways, but the majority, on both sides, are gracious
okay but they are wrong & pagan tho
@@ambitionroad who do you mean? That also goes both ways, sadly
The more that protestants yell about Catholics being pagan the more Catholic I become.
Catholics please be understanding, charitable, and loving when defending our faith.
Thank you!
You are correct.
It's not easy when dealing with their hate.
@@Kitiwake yeah but we must keep our lords commandment to love one another as ourselves no matter how hard it might be.
You are right my brother, thank you for the reminder. And really, nobody can explain everything because i think that is one of the beauty and essence of Faith; we do not understand everything yet we believe that we have One and Only True GOD who is present through Our LORD JESUS CHRIST since He is Our Living GOD. One GOD, three manifestations; The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.
Further, i want to share something that i learned when i was watching a video previously; The Blessed Virgin Mary is the Daughter of the Father, the Mother of the Son and the Spouse of The Holy Spirit.
I agree! It's hard for me when people ask in a disrespectful way, but we must remember not to be uncharitable.
Stop supporting child rape. Demand your church release all information concerning pedophile priests and other crimes.
But Catholics don't care. Child rape is part of their gods mysterious plan which is ultimately good to us.
I’m a former Protestant now catholic. What I learned early in my conversion was that there aren’t enough QUALIFIED personnel to give you the correct information that you want. So when I asked catholic and challenged a topic, they didn’t know. They felt unsure and often times dismissed the conversation. But what I found out somewhere. Idk where. Is that they don’t want to mislead you. Now you’ll have a few Catholics who challenge back, with false information. So when I did my research I focused on Catholic converts breaking down their train of thought. And I found that a couple young adult catholic teachers could easily break down my “misunderstandings.” But now I’m fully on board with the Catholic Church. Still learning. Trying to be able to hold an educated conversation with a Protestant
Blessings
Its beautiful to hear that you were so persistent in trying to find answers. I agree that many Catholics aren’t confident apologists, myself included, but I’m glad that didn’t stop you from finding what you were looking for. ☺️
And you are still lost. Here is what your Church is saying, in particular about the Muslims.
The Roman Catholic Church is for the "wide" way that leads to destruction. For example, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
"The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."(CCC 841)
Muslims deny Jesus' death and resurrection "for the sin of the world."(John 1:29) Muslims deny Jesus as God incarnate. Muslims deny Jesus as the Creator of the universe.
The Roman Catholic Church should be avoided at all costs! By the way, your Church is for "global Government." Did you know that? Care to read the OFFICIAL Vatican document regarding this topic?
Knowingly, misleading someone is one of the most grave offenses. You are right Catholics tend to exercise caution when they are not sure.
Sooooooo good to see brothers in Christ having a civil discussion!!
@The Catholic Dad agreed. If Catholics want to convert protestants, we have to do it in this way. I have much respect for Cameron for being open minded and discussing these things. It shows he is not afraid to have his beliefs challenged for the sake of finding deeper truth. This is a mistake a lot of protestants (and catholics too, unfortunately) make. Even if you're mind isn't changed, having debate like this helps you understand your own position better.
@@Hello-ro8fq Bold claim. Can you please explain?
perhaps the difficulty lies in that it is not totally true protestants are our brothers in Christ....
Silvério Rebelo Why do you say that?
@GOD SEES YOU!!!! I will do some research and get back to you regarding your objections.
As a catholic myself, I'm loving this coming together.
This kind of dialogue is so important.
May the Christian empire go from strength to strength and overturn the apathy found through the world right now
Dan Harte
More like the apathy in America. I read an article that the in Iran, more people are coming to faith in Jesus, without having “church buildings “, quotes because born again believes are the church, not denominations.
Sorry for going off course, lol, apathy is in America for sure.
@@mrniceguy3006 I agree, God's church is not a building or a religion. It is the people who love God, love fellow human beings and have the testimony of Jesus, keep His commandments.
Dan Harte, you are right. God has His people in all churches. Sadly all churches are also under attack by satan. Jesus said If you love me keep my commandments. And, He who endures to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13.
Commandment keeping people are going to come increasingly under attack from satan's false church so we must be strong, keep the commandments of God, endure 'till the end brother.
JT
Amen brother
ua-cam.com/video/JETvUcMLkJw/v-deo.html
As a Catholic, I love this! ❤️ A civil discussion between a Protestant and a Catholic, no yelling or attacking eachother, just intelligent and respectful apologetics.
This was awesome! I’m a Christian currently in rcia (the classes one takes to discern joining the Catholic Church), and Matt Fradd has been super helpful throughout my journey. However, I still have such a heart for the evangelical tradition in which I was raised, so I really love when these respectful, considerate conversations can take place. Thank you SO much!!
That's fantastic to hear that you're in rcia. Good luck and God bless you!
Slow down and look into Orthodoxy: ua-cam.com/video/DcZ7scez5Xs/v-deo.html
@@ZacharyCath I'm in the same boat - lifelong Calvinist (34 y/o) and we're now going through RCIA. Excited!!
UTTER @#$&!!!
GOD BLESS HIS ONE AND ONLY CATHOLIC CHURCH
The time for all Catholic, Protestant and Ortodhox to unite in Christ. God bless 2.4 bilion Christian across the globe, amen.
Amen to that 🙏☦️✝️🔥♥️
Unite under the True Church
@@skend3489 Unite under the true Christ, not church. GBU
@@trinitymatrix9719 The church of Christ is the Catholic Church.
@@skend3489 Christ doesnt care about what church and what u think about it either. The only thing Jesus care about is for u to follow HIM and believe in HIM.
Blessings...
I am catholic, but watch both those guys as they are both fantastic. As a matter of fact I genuinely admire evangelical protestants. IMHO, they do better job bringing people to first and second level of the mansion than catholics do.
Interestingly, the most effective and interesting catholic apologists are quite often converts from protestantism. That includes Trent Horn and Scott Hahn who are just extraordinary.
I am an ex Evangelical now orthodox
On the Mount of transfiguration que pasa respons the apostle of the ap the apostle speak to Elijah and Moses
Book of Revelation says that the elders offer prayers as incense
You named my favorites! Keith Nestor just did an interview with Marcus Grodi on The Journey Home.
The strength of Catholicism is our latent belief, we are blessed to believe, we are so lucky to have been gifted this to us by our parents and family. I also admire the zeal of Protestants but sometimes I they are overcompensating for something and sadly the proselytize in Catholic majority countries rather than focusing on pagan countries.
Most "objections" to Catholic teaching aren't objections at all, merely misunderstandings. There's a lot of misinformation -- and unfortunately disinformation -- out there about the Catholic Church. I'm glad there are channels like this where people are open to the truth. I often say, when debating Protestants, that all I want them to do is debate what the Catholic Church actually teaches not what others mistakenly claim we teach.
They aren't misunderstandings. Most objections are simply saying that catholic practices are not biblical.
What Jeremy said. There is no path to God save Christ. The saints are not Christ, so they are not able to act as an intermediary between man and God, according to the Bible. Also, there are no people in heaven, we don't go to heaven when we die, God descends to Earth at final judgement and brings heaven to US, and that is when the dead are raised. Christ is the only man currently in heaven. That's according to the Bible anyway.
khatack Catholics never claim that the saints are Christ...
@@jeremym811 If they say that, they are simply wrong. All Catholic doctrine is deeply rooted in Scripture.
@@khatack When?!? You speak as a creature bound in time. As must all of us here in this life. What is the perspective with respect to time of those who, from our view, are already dead? Don't think that just because you have difficulty reckoning these matters, that the Lord does. God isn't as small as you require Him to be.
I am a Catholic and I send greetings to all our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ. God bless you all!
Non-baptized “Baptist” converting to Catholicism this year. RCIA here I come! ❤️
Congratulations, and welcome home!!
You won’t regret it, a preemptive “welcome home!” I’m Baptist to Catholic too.
Quite anti-Catholic, but I believe that God can save and provide for believers anywhere so long as they belong to His church. So while I hope you will wake up to the corruption, deadness, and mixture of the Catholic church, I know that the Lord will remain with you the entire way.
@@GratiaPrima_
Protestant sects are neither evangelical nor Christian. Only the Catholic church is truly Christian and Evangelical. The others claim to be evangelical, but they are not. Example: The Gospel of John 6, 48-71 says that JESUS truly dwells in consecrated bread and wine, but Protestants deny the real presence and only say that it is a symbol. The Gospel of John never says that it is a symbol. Like John 20, 21-23 and James 5, 16 JESUS gives his church the power to forgive sins, Protestants say no, that they do not confess and that men cannot forgive sins and thus contradict the word of God !! John 2, 1 says that Mary intercedes even when JESUS has no plans to perform a miracle, Protestants contradict the gospel and say no. John 17, 20-26: Be one as the father and I are one, be united, but the Protestants were divided from the church and between them they are divided into more than 66,000 sects. John 19, 26-27 He says that JESUS gave his mother Mary as a mother to his disciple John and equal to the church, is a spiritual mother. Protestants say no. Matthew 16, 18-19 JESUS gave authority over the other apostles to Peter and left him as the main leader of the church, as pope, father or leader. Like Isaiah 22, 20-22, he says that when a king gives the keys to his servant, that happens to be a father to the community, JESUS is king of kings and his community is the church, that's why the Catholic church has a pope. In Matthew 25, 31-46 JESUS criticizes very strongly those who do not do works for others, and Protestants criticize the Catholic church because it teaches that good works must be done. Protestants teach that we are saved only by grace, when in truth it is that we were saved in the past, JESUS gave himself on the cross by grace and saved us, but want us to do good works. Ephesians 2, 8-9. The key is in verse 10 that they don't read and in another book that Luther tried to eliminate because he gives reason to the Catholic church and contradicts that evil heresy. That book is that of James because in Chapter 2, 14-26 it says that faith without works is a dead faith. And ask. Can that faith save him without works? Even stronger is what JESUS will say about the works on the day of judgment. Matthew 25, 31-46. This is only a summary of the gospels, if we were other topics in the apostolic letters, we will also see other contradictions of the Protestants to the gospel of JESUS CHRIST! The cross, moving to another faith, prayer to the dead, purgatory, repeated prayers, the images, they say that Mary had more children, they say that the bible is the truth and the bible itself says that the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of the Truth 1 Timothy 3, 15. They say it does not matter to be in any church etc ... All contrary to what the word of God teaches!
ua-cam.com/channels/PQA0iLLJm-NJCYfngzsk4Q.html
Welcome home, my sister in Christ!!
“To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant” John Henry Cardinal Newman - Catholic Convert
"No good-willed person studies the history of the Catholic Church and does not end up a Catholic" -Charles Coulombe
True, but he was Cardinal Newman.
@@rimgrund1 what do you mean?
Maybe. The quote, though, is from St. John Henry Cardinal Newman, the English convert to Catholicism in the 19th century. We also have a St. John Neumann, an immigrant to Philadelphia from Bohemia in the early 19th century who began the parish school system in this country. So it helps to keep our St. John Newman/Neumanns straight.
Richard A - i stand corrected and i refer to Cardinal Newman. Thanks
Satan would really not be happy if Catholics and Protestants united in Christ Jesus.
That's exactly what he wants.
@@JoelNCurry Keep studying.
Protestants have to stop protesting and unite under Christ's church. The catholic church.
Catholics need to read their Bible and not start making up things outside of it.
@@JoelNCurryif you read the bible you'd see it says not everything about jesus or his church is found in the bible.
It also say not to personally interpret the bible and to follow tradition to understand it.
The bible was writing for worship in mass, not to explain everything about the christian faith.
Been thinking, and studying Catholicism for a while, several years, in fact, stemming right back to my novel "The Angelic Gene", and after watching this interview with
Matt Fradd I'm going to complete the RCIA this year and continue my walk with Christ as a Catholic.
That's great! Catholicism has the fullness of the faith. :)
Congrats! That's wonderful news my friend. God Bless you!
I'm very much fond of conversion stories that detail the years and consistent soul searching involved with coming home. It encourages tenacity in the face of dismissive anti-Catholic folk; shows you shouldn't be so quick to give up on our brothers. God speed, sir. I hope to mirror that consistency as I reaffirm my beliefs throughout my life.
Do you Believe that Christ's death on the cross was sufficient to pay for all sins? Do you believe That salvation is a gift of God by faith through Grace and it's not of works. So no one can boast according to Ephesians 2:8-9?
kevin blah Of course Jesus’ death was sufficient to save even the gravest sinner. But upon realizing how great God is, one cannot just stand about and do nothing. He wands to glorify God throug his works. In short: Catholics don’t say you only need works. Rather, both grace and works go hand in hand.
I love how open and honest Cameron is. He's never afraid to say if he's undecided on a certain issue and is willing to listen to other people.
As a Catholic, Cameron has been in my top 10 UA-camrs. Good conversation and awesome display of our brotherhood in Christ. Peace and love.
Dulia is the honor Catholics have for the Saints. Hyper-Dulia is the honor we have for Mary. Latria is Worship reserved for God alone.
no offense but I suspect there may be difficulty dividing these 3 in catechism and practice
@@fetormephitis3040 no it's quite easy.
@@DorperSystems interesting - sometime compare this marian prayer to the "Lords Prayer" "O Mother of Perpetual Help,
grant me ever to be able to call upon thy powerful name,
since thy name is the help of the living
and the salvation of the dying.
Ah, Mary most pure,
Mary most sweet,
grant that thy name from this day forth
may be to me the very breath of life.
Dear Lady, delay not to come to my assistance
whenever I call upon thee;
for in all the temptations that assail me,
@@fetormephitis3040 What's wrong with it?
@@DorperSystems acts 4:12 says there is no other name by which you can be saved. It is not referring to Mary but Jesus.
Mary was not sinless. In Luke 1:47 she says God is her saviour. Why does she need a saviour if she is sinless?
There are also many mentions of the breath of life in the bible and it comes from God, not Mary.
If anyone wants to acquire a deeper understanding of Catholicism, I HIGHLY recommend listening to *Fr. Chad Ripperger* , who's also an experienced exorcist. Multiple degrees, including a P.h.D in Philosophy who breaks down a ton of complex topics. Other great non-clergy Catholics to listen to, that aren't as complex, are *Brant Pitre* (for scriptural analysis) and *Trent Horn* (apologetics).
EDIT: Also, *Keith Nester* is great for Protestant minded people. Formerly a pastor himself.
They have helped me tremendously in coming to the faith.
God Bless.
Zachary
what do you mean they helped you by “coming to faith”?
Is it that you had doubts? Or did he explain the gospel to you?
Mr nice,
@@mrniceguy3006
I had some very soft ideas about doctrine, a shallow understanding. But, I now know that there's more to the faith than what's offered in other "expressions" or "interpretations" of Christianity. That's what I mean. I came to what's called the "deposit of faith". Not to offend any Protestants, but I'm not going to lie. Ideas like "sola scriptura" and "sola fide" aren't coherent, and they don't convince people to live like "Saints" and to glorify Christ.
I was missing out on the fullness of the faith. A relationship with Christ that runs deeper than ideas and passions, but *complete* through sacramental grace and devotion. Yet, even through "works" of devotion, we aren't saved by our own doing, it's all because of Christ and his mercy. That's why pride is a vice. It's a deeper understanding of the scriptures, and a justified faith in the living God who still works through the One Holy Apostolic Church to ensure that the truth (called dogma) is uncorrupted over time.
Note: This isn't even to say that most Catholics are saved. Heck, there are many Catholics who don't have faith in the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in the Eucharist and that is a clear cut dogma of the Church.
Many "profess" his name but few actually take up their cross and live out righteousness. He provides the grace, now we must put our trust in him and live accordingly. It is our job to purify ourselves as much as we can before we step foot before God. That's what "works" are. It...works and grace, the faith, starts with the Church.
Zachary
That’s pretty cool. As I’m reading your post, I can in my mind put scriptures to what your are saying. It seems that the Catholics I meet don’t have a love for God, or Jesus or the things of God as you’re saying you do. Your expressing to have a great desire and love for God that I don’t see in Catholics where I live. Honestly, I know some who go to Protestant churches who don’t express that desire to walk deeper with Jesus. For me, I love to meet others who share the same love I do.
The Holy Spirit leads me to desire the word of God, convicts me when my thoughts aren’t in line with the heart of God as I’ve learned Him to be through His word. So I don’t understand your point on needing convincing to live like saints, that seems foreign to my ears .
I learn about the Lord, His desires His hates, like the word of God says, abhor what is evil and love what is good? I find that also in the word of God.
@@mrniceguy3006 I appreciate and understand what you're saying. We probably agree more than many people do within their own "sect"!
In the case of Saints, none of us are perfect and we still all fall short of the glory of God. In those cases, where we're struggling with certain persistent problems, having the Saints is helpful in correcting ourselves. But, for sure, scripture and the model of Christ is sufficient in correcting our behavior as long as it's properly understood. But, the lives of the Saints may be found more applicable to our situation. It's simply important, for a lot of people to acquire help from someone, who had similar dispositions to us that is in Heaven. Ex. I know I struggle with pride, therefore I call upon a Saint who overcame that struggle and see how they modeled their life.
But no more on that, I actually wrote another whole lengthy write up on that in another place in this comment section lol.
What Catholicism offers as its main truth is the complete Sacramentals in which we are redeemed, healed, and generally live out his graces. We are Baptized, Confirmed, receive the Eucharist weekly (continually restoring grace), perform Penance, Marriage, etc.
But there's so much more to add, yet, I cannot catechize someone with the full knowledge of the faith in simply one sitting. I only hope that everyone continues to seek the one true God in every case in life.
Thanks for reading and God bless you!
AND NOW U ARE CATHOLIC, CAM!!!! CONGRAAATTTSSS 😃😃😃 GLORY TO GOD ❤❤❤🕇🕇🕇
Why would Jesus get baptised if it didn't matter? Jesus led by example.
It wasn't example that was primary. Rather, the doctrine of imputation. Christs righteousness is applied to the believing sinner. This would include his baptism. Remember He was doing it to fulfill all righteousness not to set an example.
Jesus’ baptism was not the Christian baptism He later instituted. Jesus’ baptism was instead a royal anointing of the Son of David (Jesus) conferred by a Levite (John the Baptist) to reveal Christ to Israel, as it was foreshadowed in 1 Kings 1:39 when the Son of David (Solomon) was anointed by the Levitical priest Zadok.
kennys1wife
It was not be cleansed but to cleanse the waters of baptism.
@@Joe-uw5rv He set the example AND at the same time it was to sanctify baptism as a sacrament (gift). So, I completely agree with you. ❤️
How did the criminal at the cross get to be in Paradise without being baptized?
You can't interpret a book, especially an ancient book, without knowing its cultural context, which is contained in the Christian writers of the first two or three centuries.
@demigodzilla even from a secular perspective, I'm not sure I agree with this. So few texts from the ancient world have even survived. The fact that we're even still talking about the Bible is significant. It has been selected for preservation among thousands of texts which have disappeared, and it will probably outlast the both of us.
Unfortunately, many of the early Church fathers got a lot of things terribly confused... all kinds of syncretism early on
@@tylerpedersen9836 No, the Church Fathers teach us how the apostles interpreted things. At least two of them, Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioh, knew the apostle John personally, and Ignatius knew the apostle Peter personally.
@@tylerpedersen9836 There are things to question about your way of thinking. OK, all the first believers were straight out of Judaism, meaning that they fully knew and understood scripture. They knew the prophets and all the messianic prophecies. So as they were first called Christians by their enemies, the mere fact they had enemies means there was something to it . Their first enemies were among the ruling Jewish Pharisees. They wouldn't have had those enemies if they weren't seen as a threat to Pharisaical rule. So why would they have been a threat to the point that Paul persecuted them even killing some? Why would the Christians be killed if they were just another sect?
Not one single Roman, Greek, Egyptian or Persian ever equated Jesus with any of their gods and none of their religions and the mere fact that Christianity was illegal in an empire that tolerated all kinds of pagan religions, but did not tolerate Christianity means that Christianity was so radically different that it was a threat to the empire. There would have been no reason to kill a group of people because of "syncretism" because the Romans considered it not a Roman religion, neither Hellenistic.
So why would this one group of people get singled out if there was nothing to it? You can't even say because they were traitors because traitors were called traitors and that was broadly across the empire to all groups, but Christianity was illegal and a death penalty, they weren't killed for being traitors, they were specifically killed for being Christians.
Why would Tacitus even mention the investigation and interrogation of those suspected of being Christian, unless Christianity was something that challenged Rome. For a such a small group in the beginning, they were marked at the beginning for their doctrines, which was Christ is God and the Trinity. If it were mere paganism, then why weren't the Mathraists not persecuted or illegal? They believed Mithras as god, so to say believing in god is the reason, Christians should not have been persecuted. That tells you something that the early Christians were illegal and under a death penalty for being identified as Christians, not as traitors.
My statement is not an indictment of the early Christian thinkers, far from it. All I'm pointing out is that some influence from the surrounding culture (gnosticism, paganism, etc.) did impact the doctrinal formulations found in their writings (I think especially of Origen, who leaned towards universalism, and Justin Martyr). Of course, I believe they were Christians and we have much to learn from them...
“I’m a catholic and bad with the Bible.” Thanks for the laugh Matt 😂 as a Catholic myself I found that funny.
...and Cameron graciously listed him as an "apologist". Catholic teaching is unbiblical in e/sense.
Kman considering the Catholic church gave us the bible, that’s laughable
@@alskarmode That's a mouthful, but not truthful.
If catholics *GAVE* us the bible, why is it that they attempted to keep the bible *FROM* the people for so long? * aloha.net/~mikesch/banned.htm* History notes, that bibles had to be smuggled to people for a long time. When they were found, they were burned...people imprisoned and even burned at the stake for possessing a bible. Who carried all that out? The catholic church.
If catholics gave us the bible (The Council of Hippo in 393 I assume you'd suggest?), how is it that New Testament books had been already accepted and used hundreds of years *BEFORE* the council convened? Furthermore, the Council of Nicea in 325 had referenced the *"CANON"* and the Council of Laodicea in 363 had said that *ONLY* the "canonized" books were to be read in the church.
.
If catholics are responsible for the bible, why can't we find teachings that support all you believe? I know you'd like to point to verses to try and support things like transubstantiation, etc but for the time being, where do you anchor the teaching of the infallibility of the pope?
And did you misspeak in saying catholics gave us the *BIBLE* ? The *JEWS* gave us the Old Testament, with the Septuagant being put together about 250 years before Christ even came along. So you can't claim that the bible only has it's power and authority by its express permission, nor can you claim that it's only here due to the catholic church, sorry. The whole line of thought is nothing more than circular reasoning, where you claim the bible is here by way of the catholic church, and the church is here, and has as its foundation because of the bible.
You're attempting to put the catholic church above the Word of God, but it's the *WORD* that's inspired, not the words/works of any group of catholics. Catholics didn't officially come together until long after Christ. This is just another attempt to exalt catholic tradition, the catholic church, and what the pope says above the Word of God.
· II Tim 3:16 "All *scripture* is given by inspiration of God..."
· Matt 24:35 "...my *words* shall not pass away."
· I Pet 1:25 "But the *word* of the Lord endureth for ever."
@@Kman. You need to read an objective history of the Canon of the Bible. If you do so, you cannot escape the fact that it was the Catholic Church that was instrumental in making and canonising the Christian Bible. The Church did not prevent people from reading the Bible; what it did was to prevent the abuse of the Bible by heretics. Though the Catholic Church gave us the Bible, it is not above the Bible, but it is the custodian of the Bible and has the final authority in interpreting its meaning. It can be proved easily today that all the teachings of the Catholic Church are consistent with the Bible. But if Protestants don't agree with the Catholic position, the former don't become right and the latter wrong. The final authority in interpreting the Bible rests with the Catholic Church.
@@albertdevasahayam6781 You opened with an assumption that I've not read from objective sources (who knows how you even define that, or who those sources may be?), but you added to that a number of inaccuracies with what you said.
Don't you find it strange, that one of the church fathers that ya'll point to (Eusebius), did not even agree on *II Peter* being a part of the canon, yet you want to hold up the church fathers as being authoritative? Which is it?
Nevertheless, you conclude with a heretical statement, suggesting that the catholic church is not just the custodian, but also _THEE_ final authority. I find that "strange" too for you to say that, because it contradicts your _PRIOR_ statement where you state the catholic church does *NOT* usurp biblical doctrine
I'm Catholic and so thankful you both had this conversation in charity and not in some sort of rivalry. Praised be Jesus Christ!
Protestant sects are neither evangelical nor Christian. Only the Catholic church is truly Christian and Evangelical. The others claim to be evangelical, but they are not. Example: The Gospel of John 6, 48-71 says that JESUS truly dwells in consecrated bread and wine, but Protestants deny the real presence and only say that it is a symbol. The Gospel of John never says that it is a symbol. Like John 20, 21-23 and James 5, 16 JESUS gives his church the power to forgive sins, Protestants say no, that they do not confess and that men cannot forgive sins and thus contradict the word of God !! John 2, 1 says that Mary intercedes even when JESUS has no plans to perform a miracle, Protestants contradict the gospel and say no. John 17, 20-26: Be one as the father and I are one, be united, but the Protestants were divided from the church and between them they are divided into more than 66,000 sects. John 19, 26-27 He says that JESUS gave his mother Mary as a mother to his disciple John and equal to the church, is a spiritual mother. Protestants say no. Matthew 16, 18-19 JESUS gave authority over the other apostles to Peter and left him as the main leader of the church, as pope, father or leader. Like Isaiah 22, 20-22, he says that when a king gives the keys to his servant, that happens to be a father to the community, JESUS is king of kings and his community is the church, that's why the Catholic church has a pope. In Matthew 25, 31-46 JESUS criticizes very strongly those who do not do works for others, and Protestants criticize the Catholic church because it teaches that good works must be done. Protestants teach that we are saved only by grace, when in truth it is that we were saved in the past, JESUS gave himself on the cross by grace and saved us, but want us to do good works. Ephesians 2, 8-9. The key is in verse 10 that they don't read and in another book that Luther tried to eliminate because he gives reason to the Catholic church and contradicts that evil heresy. That book is that of James because in Chapter 2, 14-26 it says that faith without works is a dead faith. And ask. Can that faith save him without works? Even stronger is what JESUS will say about the works on the day of judgment. Matthew 25, 31-46. This is only a summary of the gospels, if we were other topics in the apostolic letters, we will also see other contradictions of the Protestants to the gospel of JESUS CHRIST! The cross, moving to another faith, prayer to the dead, purgatory, repeated prayers, the images, they say that Mary had more children, they say that the bible is the truth and the bible itself says that the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of the Truth 1 Timothy 3, 15. They say it does not matter to be in any church etc ... All contrary to what the word of God teaches!
ua-cam.com/channels/PQA0iLLJm-NJCYfngzsk4Q.html
Long way but with a really happy ending, very warm welcome Cameron
I almost became protestant once. It was the scariest experience of my life, once I found out the truth, that is the Catholic Church.
So was you becoming Protestant "the truth" or Catholic; that was worded horribly
@@arkinthedark3674 edited.
Why did you find Protestantism scary? Not being polemical; I'm actually interested.
@@USMC98 Well, I encourage you to be a protestant.
I will just ask you one thing. ¿What is the gospel?
@@teachasp6316 Protestantism is really scary for me since IF I left the Catholic Church. I WOULDN'T know which Protestant denomination I would go to.
Respect Cameron, for having a Catholic on your show. Be careful dude, you might come home to the Church soon...😁
Deo Volente Nothing to be careful about. God wanted us in ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE Lord, and that is the reason we have to be both ONE in spirit, but also ONE in body. That protestant eclesiology did some twisting in things is real, but does not take anything from the marvelous christians they may be. It’s just a point of knowing what God concieves as the UNIFICATION of His People - this cannot come without the visible reality and should not come but fundamentally attacking spiritual authority of the Church.
Greetings from Brazil
@GOD SEES YOU!!!! nice copy paste, and strawman you got there. I'm sure you'll be spending a lot of time pulling chaff out of your hair.....
Then if it happens, being Italian and catholic will make total sense. Lol 😂😂😂
Well he did!
He came home!
Really enjoyed this video and the respectful tone throughout
Cameron, may God bless you, you're a trailblazer. Love your show. Protestant or Catholic, we're both on the same side, Jesus' side. Please continue doing what you do. We pray daily for the unity of all Christians.
Excellent discussion! Thank you for have Matt Fradd on! Peace.
Catholic here. I enjoyed the discussion.
I haven't been this intrigued by a theological discussion for a while. And big ups to Capturing Christianity for posing his questions so respectfully and with a genuine desire for truth.
This is Beautiful , how can't we all be like these two friends , talk about religion and not fight about differing views.
There is this Catholic theologian, Dr. Brant Pitre, who is also refreshingly orginal. He isn't an apologist, but my goodness, he is a storehouse of wisdom and knowledge about Church doctrines and Church history, especially in early Christianity. You should try sometime to get him for a dialogue.
Yes! Get Brant Pitre on!
His historical knowledge on the Jewish roots of Mary and on the Eucharist are life changing. No doubt you can remain a Protestant after reading his material. The Bread of Life discourse is mind blowing when understood from Jewish perspective
I ❤ Dr. Pitre
@@cotaryan3740 I think you meant "no way you can remain protestant..."
I agree. Pitre's Jewish Roots series is the absolute best modern exegesis available
I love Brant Pitre!!! Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist is life changing!
I wish so badly to see a discussion like this between mike winger and trent horn. Especially about authority of the church and its interpretation.
ru Rupee that would epic.
Andrew Medina Trent Horn is a national Treasure
Dang bro shoo that would be lit🤣🤣
I seriously doubt it. After "serious research" Mike Winger claimed Roman Catholics rebaptize those baptized in other denominations.
This debate or dialogue between Trent and Winger would be indeed enlightening. Especially since Winger has done a series attacking the Catholic Christian faith in his church, and Trent went on to rebut two of his presentation in his own channel (Council of Trent). I guess a face to face might clear couple of things straight away! 😇
Before i found this video, i watched this, "Former Protestant Pastor tells why he LOVES being Catholic - Keith Nester" which is great in connection to this video. And this is what i learned upon listening to Keith, "About Saints
Book of Revelation describes their prayers are offered up to GOD like incense.
Hebrews 12 - We are surrounded by great cloud of witnesses (Saints) especially The Blessed Mother.
"
Most ancient Churches in my country, Iraq, and also in Syria, Turkey and the Holy Land have Saints relics and are filled with Saints icons. Do you think that all these christians didn't pray to saints! Were they all wrong all this time?
PS. I love you guys both, and Matt hope you bring back some of our brothers and sisters back to the true church.
@Fadi N
Hello friend. I appreciate Matt's zeal for Christ, but I also think he really quickly dodged from my question at 47:30. I was asking because, at that point you would have to be the one who decides in your mind who is or isn't in heaven or hell and THEN ask them for prayers. He said he wouldn't pray to them, because they might be in Hell. So, who tells you who you should and shouldn't pray to?
In my view, it causes men to join the catholic church for self promotion and not Christ promotion. If the Pope as a symbol is supposed to be an icon of a "proper Christian" or "holy father", then people are more likely to assume they are in heaven, if we are saved by grace. How do we know people aren't joining the priesthood, in order to gain some special position as a saint who can be prayed to? How does this not introduce a stumbling block of pride between God and his people?
Yes! Read St. John of Damascus - defender of Icons.
@@brando3342 For Catholic and Orthodox (and maybe some anglican and traditional Lutheran) we know who are in heaven because the infallible Church told us so. So, we don't decide for ourselves. Specifically for Catholic, the pope would declare officially (the process of canonization) which person is raised to sainthood, which means he/she is in heaven.
@@namapalsu2364 Thanks, I responded on my comment.
@@brando3342 Let's move the discussion there.
The standard account for how the saints are aware of our prayers is that, because they have the beatific vision of God, they see in God all of the knowledge they need, all of the knowledge that is relevant to them, and so they see our prayers to them. On the standard account is thus by the omniscience of God that they become aware of our prayers, though they themselves are never omniscient and never take in the full scope of God’s knowledge, only those parts that are relevant to them
Amen I’m slightly disappointed he didn’t answer that
I mean, that's not Biblical though. So its just, at the very best, something that's made up because there is no proper answer to why or how that is done. The Bible says that Jesus himself is our intercessor. Pray to God, and ask your physical community to pray with you, but don't pray to dead people (hopefully alive in Christ people)
@@christian_gamer_guy6447 Never in the Bible does it say the Bible alone is sufficient
Right, is says the Holy Spirit is sufficient, not Peter.
@@jvp1286 Sufficient for what? We are given God's very Spirit, and the words of Jesus himself as help in interpreting scripture. Why would you go outside of scripture, and look to some man who a shady tradition says has the one and only authority to interpret God's word? We are told to test everything and hold fast to what is good.... How can we "test everything" if we are unable to read God's word for ourselves?
The protestant said that it doesnt matter to him and most protestants what the early Christians believed because the early Christians werent infallible, only the scriptures are infallible.
But it was those same early Christians who declared which writings were inspired by God. But if they were fallible men then what confidence can a protestant have that the canon of scripture they chose is truly infallible if they were chosen by "fallible men"??
He and all protestants who follow that reasoning are contradicting themselves.
Saying early Christians were fallible does not mean all of their theology was wrong. There are some truths to their beliefs but not all of it is of God. Scripture has remained the same since they were written but some interpretations by man are subject to fallibility
You are assuming that people chose which books are in the Bible.
@@ea-tr1jh I'm not assuming. I know. The books of today's canon were individually selected by the catholic bishops united with Pope damasus in AD 382 in the synod of Rome.
If you guys want an excellent introduction to the Marian and Eucharistic dogmas, I highly recommend reading: ‘Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary,’ and ‘Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist,’ by Brant Pitre. There are other books of course, but he explains it very well and simply.
Catholics can’t earn or buy their way to Heaven, they have to live their faith... to live their faith is a work, it’s an action, a verb :-)
we dont do that.... you say we do... WE DONT... but of course no one can budge you from your stubborn belief that we do..
@@whoahorseywhoa4685
I’m a little confused with your response... you’re saying my statement about having to live our faith is incorrect? Please explain, thanks. I keep re-reading this and it must have been directed at another comment because Catholics do earn their way to heaven by living their faith - it’s not earned as in checking off boxes or paying people off... that’s Protestant misinformation...ignorance really. God bless.
@@Alexander-fr1kk protestant or catholic, works do not earn you salvation. It's true the bible says faith without works is dead, but works do not earn salvation. Salvation is alone, in the cleansing of sin by the perfect sacrifice Jesus Christ.
@@hamsarris8341
Well, no. The Bible clearly states to continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It’s not a one and done. Yes it’s a free gift, but gifts can be received and lost or rejected. We cannot “earn” our way into heaven, Jesus paid for that, but we do have to live our faith to “earn” that gift.
@@Alexander-fr1kk no our works are the fruit of our faith. If truely saved, if truely converted, if truely wanting to follow Jesus, a christian WILL do good works because he LOVES God ans his commands because God gave him a new heart which WANTS to do his will. This all is the fruit/result of a true conversion. Its something that will undeniably happen when one gets SAVED. One is already saved when this happens. Good works are the fruit of the faith. One who claims to be saved but doenst follow Gods law or do as he commands is a false convert. Hense why James says that our faith is shown in our works. But these works are not the CAUSE or REASON for our salvation. Only our faith is
Interesting video! I’m a passionate Catholic and fan of Matt Fradd. I believe that Truth is objective and there is a single form of Christianity that Jesus revealed. Why are we split up into denominations? Either Baptism is necessary or it’s not - can’t have it both ways. May the Holy Spirit lead us all to the fullness of Truth and the outpouring God’s grace and love through the Sacraments 🙏🏼
Thanks for watching, Margo! Matt is awesome.
We are split into denominations because it is Satan’s goal to cause chaos and destruction and confusion, and get people to believe anything other than the true gospel of the Bible. Baptism is a public demonstration of your faith but is NOT required for salvation.
"Blessed among women are you, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"
I'd encourage every Protestant out there to look up the so-cal "Eucharistic Miracles", and also the Virgin of Guadalupe Miracle. They are as compelling as they are amazing.
The Virgin of Guadalupe was fabricated to proselytize the indigenous people. It has been well documented that Bishop Zumárraga was a prolific writer. Yet, in not a single one of his known letters, is there any mention of Juan Diego, his miraculous apparition, the roses, or the cloak bearing the image, or any other element of the story of Juan Diego.
i love those miracles! my catholic friend often tells me about them and i feel His Holy Presence every single time!! (i’m currently protestant, but i really want to convert)
Miracles? Gullible idiots.
Derek Mizer
Not as gullible as materialists
@@a.sobolewski1646 what is a materialist?
As a recovering Catholic I absolutely feel it is good to dialog about salvific issues.
If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by "recovering Catholic"? As in you were once Catholic and are now protestant? Or that you were a lapsed Catholic and have returned to the Church?
Stewart Collins Yes no problem. What I mean by recovering Catholic is that I was Roman Catholic but now I do not practice.
Good to see more dialog with our separated protestant brothers. At our death we will all know the true Church.
So important to evangelization of the world for Catholics and Protestants to talk to each other.
Where in Scripture does it say that everything must be in Scripture? Martin Luther invented Bible Alone 1500 years after Christ.
Sola scriptura does not mean everything (like brushing your teeth) is in the bible. It does, however, mean that scripture is (1,3) sufficient for understanding the gospel, that (1,2) nothing can be added to that gospel, and that (1,2,4) it is the only final and infallible authority.
(1) Jude 3 "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which *was once delivered unto the saints*."
(2) Galatians 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
(3) 2 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
(4) 1 Corinthians 4:6 "And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; *that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written*, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."
@Thomase Synek Pretty much any book can be used to make an unintended point, because it is easy to take words out of context.
As the Bible itself teaches, you must consider texts carefully
(see the commendation of the Bereans in Acts 17:11-12).
Anyone who has read the Bible knows that Romans 13 does not support Judenfrei; one must be very ignorant, or incapable of logical thought, to think that it does.
I have just checked the following Greek texts:
Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550),
Westcott & Hort (1881), Nestle (1904),
and Byzantine Majority (2005).
They all say 'believing' and not 'obey' in regard to John 3:16. These texts reflect at least two strands of thought regarding which Greek manuscripts should be relied upon, either:
(1) a critical view, or
(2) a majority view.
So either way, even if you know of a 1st century text that contains 'obey',
scholars don't agree that this was in the original manuscripts, and neither do the majority of manuscripts.
So it doesn't seem logical to take your manuscript, which I assume exists,
as being reliable at all.
I don't know how any sensible person could possibly think that John 3:16 refers to Hitler. Again, they would have to be ignorant of the Bible's content, or incapable of logical thought.
Interesting quote from Martin Luther... but that's doubly fallacious:
an 'ad hominem' (toward me) and 'appeal to authority' (toward Luther).
In summary, it seems to me that you are too lazy to read/study the Bible,
and your frustration (that you do not know it yourself but sense its importance) means that you feel you must attack people who make arguments from it.
Further, you use silly statements like Martin Luther's remarks, which are
simply ad hominem 'arguments', and the ridiculous statement that the Bible can be used to prove anything - which itself proves only that you do not understand the importance of context.
First learn about hermeneutics, then study the Bible.
2 Tmothy 2:15 "Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
@Thomase Synek You could give up brushing and bathing and it would not affect your salvation in christ.
@Thomase Synek You seem to be making an argument for Catholicism over Protestantism, i am in no way qualified to argue with you over which is better and am in no way sufficiently learned in their respective theologies or doctrines to form a valid opinion,what i asked was how brushing your teeth or bathing was related to the scriptures, i believe Christianity is for a purpose, our ( eventual) reunion with God...or to become Sons of God. The scriptures guide you in that purpose , so why would they mention something unrelated to them as to your opinion of Catholicism or Protestantism , i cant reply nor do i care about the subject enough to try, regardless of what you believe about Christ , i think all denominations would agree that He came for one purpose the salvation of man and we as followers of Him and His teaching would work towards that purpose. I do not which denomination of Christianity is better and more truthful to His views of what His Kingdom (the church) should be like, though do i think i ever will, i believe there is a degree of truth in all of their theologies and naturally being of humans even though inspired by the Holy spirit also a degree of error, so why does it matter if neither of those denominations would help me as an individual fullfill what Gods purpose for me was? If only one of those could genuinely allow me to fulfill that purpose , what about the rest of them? If i am currently following the wrong theologies and they in some way deter me from fulfilling that purpose , why has God allowed me knowing full well that I and I am sure others with the same zealousness for discovering and fullfilling that that purpose to follow different theologies,. Perhaps because it does not really matter and we all just want to be able to take pride in the fact that we are wiser than our brothers (supposedly) following the wrong teachings, In any case wouldn't a true follower of Christ yearn for the soul of someone led astray and not seek to push them further away. Who knows the answers to these questions? I assume only God.
@Thomase Synek and to the analogy of the horse and its rider which i honestly have not heard before ( like i said i dont have much knowledge of theology) i think it refers more to whom we allow to take the reins and guide us... Our free will would then be in choosing the right rider and resisting the wrong one... You seem to assume that free will means you are a horse by yourself carrying yourself to the destination you seek, i do not believe that man even with the Scriptures to guide us has the strength or wisdom or perseverance to get there on his own... It is when we allow God ( through the Holy Spirit) to take the reins...that is to strengthen us give us wisdom , that we are able to reach our destination. I however admit that I may not have understood completely the analogy , i formed an opinion based on what i did understand.
Read Scott Hahn's book "The Fourth Cup."
I loved this discussion. I have been a Christian for many years, but it’s such a blessing to learn more about the Catholic Faith. Honestly, I was clueless, but I look so forward to learning more about their beliefs. Thanks gentlemen. Keep letting the love of Jesus shine through you. You’re a blessing.
Eph 6:18; Rom 15:30; Col 4:3; 1 Thess 1:11 - intercessory prayer
Jos 5:14; Dan 8:17; Tob 12:16 - veneration of angels united with God (Mt 18:10)
1 Cor 13:12; 1 John 3:2 - saints also united with God
Rev 5:8; Rev 8:3-4 - saints in heaven presenting to the Lamb the prayers of those on earth
1 Pet 3:21 - baptism now saves you
Acts 2:38-39 - “Repent and be baptized... this promise is for you and your children.”
James 2:24 - not justified by faith alone
James 2:26 - faith without works is dead
Gal 5:6 - we must have “faith working in love”
Phil 2:12; 2 Cor 5:10; Rom 2:6-10, 13, 3:31; Mt 25:32-46; Gal 6:6-10; Rev 20:12 - works have merit
Mt 26:26-27; Mk 14:22,24; Lk 22:19-20; 1 Cor 10:24-25 - “This is my Body...This is my Blood.”
1 Cor 5:7 - “Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us, therefore let us keep the feast” (i.e. the Eucharist)
1 Cor 10:16 - eating Eucharist is participation or communion with the Body and Blood of Christ.
1 Cor 11:26-30 - unworthy eating is sinning against the Body and Blood of Christ
Acts 2:42 - “breaking of bread” refers to Eucharist
If you read James 2:26 in full context you will see that he was talking about specific people before Christ died on the cross, and most importantly this scripture is not about salvation it’s about behaviour and conduct and demonstration of faith. When you give your life to Christ, your behaviour is evident of your salvation and not something you combine to get salvation Ephesians 2:9 not by works but by faith lest a man should boast. And your scriptures about faith without works is dead is one of the most grossly misinterpreted scriptures ever. That scriptures mentions nothing about salvation but how you should treat your brother. You have to read things into context. I’m sure o would find more misinterpretation scriptures in your comment but start here
I notice some of your translations are a little off? Galatians 5:6 says expressing in love and all of your scriptures you’ve given as an example of how we should treat one another which no1 disagrees with but again none of your scriptures talks about salvation
AMEN
God bless you Guys i am non denominational and love to see christians togethers may the lord bless you brothers and sisters
That's so weird. Non denominational. I consider Catholicism to be the denominator. And everything else to be the numerator. Since all Christian divisions have some part of the fullness of Truth, which is the Catholic Church. It just makes me sad that people make up their own Theology and religion and call it non denominational.
Proud Christian catholic here, and I always ask for the intersection of Mother Mary and all the saints ❤️
If you can ask the king to answer your prayers, why pray to the 3rd footwaaher
Camerons conversion began here I cant believe its been 2 years already.
Revelation says the Saints in Heaven are offering up our prayers to God and there’s another verse in Hebrews.
I converted 3 years ago from protestantism to Eastern Orthodoxy. You guys did a superb job on this.
Two things that i thought might make things a tad clearer.
John 11:26. Jesus explains to Martha that whoever believes in him will nevrr die.
So because this promise extends to all believers, the command given to continually pray for each other is still in effect even after bodily repose.
And the other point is that while all of us are subject to error, and wrong at times, when we defer to the earliest Christian's. We are literally asking the fellow who got it firsthand from the source. Either from Our Lord, or from an Apostle.
Iraneous, ignatious etc. These men were literally the Apostles of the origional 12.
It was from they themselves who we got our own belief. It wasnt from an early hick.🤣
seek to understand before you're understood.... great conversation... Love Matt Fradd, he got me hooked on Saint Aquinas, and has helped me with Catholic apologetics aswell. Great Catholic brother in Christ.
He avoided using the bible to support using his Catholic positions. All he quoted were early infaluabile humans and Catholic traditions !
@Shameless Papist "You don't need the Bible to demonstrate what early Christians believed. They believed the Bible and he was demonstrating how they saw the Bible."
Exactly. This is what Protestants need to understand. Arguments can be made which are already ahead of the game - which assume and therefore don't need to explicitly cite the Biblical principles and doctrines which support what is believed.
Besides, for every Scripture, a Protestants can just deny your interpretation. So are they really looking for Biblical references or support at all, really?
He also was caught of guard. If you go to pints with Aquinas and his work in formed he gives a lot more Biblical references. I wondered why he didn’t give more Verses from revelation to support the saint’s awareness of what is happening on earth. They literally bring the prayers of the saints up to the throne of God. He may have been nervous, which in a debate, friendly as it may be, is always a bit frightening and puts you on the spot.
The interpretation of early Christian leaders is incredibly important, they were closest to the source. The traditions and interpretations of the Catholic Church are much more valid than modern interpretations which tend to lack historical context and pick and choose verses while ignoring other verses.
Jesus did not hand out Bibles; instead Christ founded a Church to teach in His name throughout the ages. We got the Bible through the Church, not the other way around.
The church is the pillar that holds up the word of God. Not create it.
Kori claypool Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus founded His Church. The New Testament was written by the Church.
@@vivacristo1000 Jesus said I leave you the Holy Spirit who will guide you to all truth. Not a church full of men.
Kori claypool The apostles were men given authority to forgive sins and to teach in Christ’s name. The Bible didn’t fall out of the sky.
@@vivacristo1000 they were give authority by Christ's name and their own. Try again.
One of my favorite aspects of the Eucharist and the rejection of it some Christians have, is that it requires the most Faith to believe in. With all the talk about Faith and Salvation, there is something beautiful about the fact that the Eucharist, the centerpiece of our mass, is by far the most difficult to logically understand. It requires the Faith of a child to believe in. By that I mean complete trust in God. I find that beautiful.
Excellent Conversation
Genuine question at 6:54, "God makes the prayer known to the saints". What? If God has already come to know what your prayer is, why does he need to relay that back to saints who are in turn gonna pray for you to the same God? Confused here...anyone can clear that up?
Someone in the comments section (am101171) wrote this: "The standard account for how the saints are aware of our prayers is that, because they have the beatific vision of God, they see in God all of the knowledge they need, all of the knowledge that is relevant to them, and so they see our prayers to them. On the standard account is thus by the omniscience of God that they become aware of our prayers, though they themselves are never omniscient and never take in the full scope of God’s knowledge, only those parts that are relevant to them."
@@philotheos251 Hmm, interesting. A bit like what Pentecostals and Charismatics call the "Word of Knowledge"!? I never thought of it before. Interesting perspective!
Just FYI, The Saints are Christian Heroes that lived their lives with heroic Christian virtue. They are men, women, teens and children. We can relate to them in many ways, by their example, their sufferings or their accomplishment. One of my favorites is St. Monica who prayed
for her son for decades before he became a Christian. I call on her so that she can help me pray for my adult children to come to Christ.
Never forget that 'how God does something' or 'how something is true' is not the same as that it is true. An example is the Trinity. We know God is triune only because He revealed it. Similarly, we know from the faith once delivered to the saints, that intercession and communion of the saints is part of the faith. We don't need to know, however interesting, reasonable or defendable, how God does it, or how saints are made aware of our petititons. We simply don't.
Also, don't forget that even in the Bible the apostles ask others to pray on their behalf. So you have to think about that when mocking the idea of praying to God through someone else, or asking others to intercede for you.
@@AveChristusRex Wasn't mocking it. Got confused at the comment of God making it known to the saints because that didn't make any sense. We don't need to know how, is still a better answer than that.
48:00 I feel Matt didn't represent the concept "Theotokos" quite correctly, since its primary merit is not in the syllogism that Jesus = God, Mary = Mother of Jesus, therefore Mary = Mother of God. The literal translation which he mentioned, "God-bearer" is a bit more poignant in getting across the reason for its position in Church theology.
The objection raised against "Theotokos" was not as an attack of St Mary's position at all, but on the nature of Christ. The question being raised by Nestor of Constantinople was "Did Christ carry His Divine Nature as a foetus in the womb?". Nestor believed not, and insisted that St Mary be called "Christ-bearer", or "Christotokos", which based on the context would mean something like "St. Mary only gave birth to the one who would BECOME God, not God Himself". St Cyril of Alexandria's counter-position, which became church doctrine at the Council of Ephesus as a result, was that from the moment that Christ had any physical presence on Earth, i.e. right after conception, He carried the divine nature (fully human and fully divine). Thus St Mary should rightly be called "Theotokos", as the one who carried the divine nature of God.
Anyway, this dialogue was awesome, thanks for sharing it! (Coptic Orthodox here)
It's because Nestorius taught that in Jesus there was two Persons (a divine and a human one, differents), tought the faith of the Church is that in Christ we have one Person, the Person of the eternal Word, consubstantial to the Father, who really assumed the human nature without leaving the divine one. I don't know if you coptics think differenctly.
As Catholics, we must also understand how challenging are a lot of our Catholic beliefs to Protestants even to Protestants who want to become Catholic because of their deep anti-tradition and sola scriptura background so to actually ask a Catholic, a Catholic apologist at that, is highly commendable.
maybe you air quoted "protestant" bc it's only for a little while longer ;)
Hopefully he comes home to the one true Church!
Rinjamin Button Exactly what I was thinking
Theresa We are the church of christ. Not a building.
No, it’s because we don’t generally call ourselves that. I talk to Catholics quite often, and study Catholic doctrine. I think of myself as “reformed with Calvinist leanings, extremely conservative Lutheran”. Lol. I get it’s a lot, however, it covers where my doctrine best fits. “Protestant” can mean anything - even something as disgusting as hyper-charismatic or Word of Faith (Paula White or Kenneth Copeland types).
@@KristiLEvans1 yeah, I just say "I don't twist the bible or stretch things", but I also don't say I'm "protestant".
Rev 8:4 the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.
So saints here is specifically referring to the tribulation saints coming out of the great tribulation
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
Revelation 6:9-11 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/rev.6.9-11.ESV
Again we also read
Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?" I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
Revelation 7:13-17 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/rev.7.13-17.ESV
And then finally
And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.
Revelation 8:3-5 ESV
bible.com/bible/59/rev.8.3-5.ESV
We can also clearly see the altar talked about in chapter 6 is the same as in chapter 8. So I think the saints here are refering to the saints that are Martyred during the great tribulation.
Also it did not say prayers were offered to them but instead it is their prayers
"Saints" is a term used to describe everybody who is Saved by Grace through Faith. Those are my prayers and yours, not exclusively those of Canonized Saints.
As a Catholic , I thoughtMatt explained it great....
Protestant sects are neither evangelical nor Christian. Only the Catholic church is truly Christian and Evangelical. The others claim to be evangelical, but they are not. Example: The Gospel of John 6, 48-71 says that JESUS truly dwells in consecrated bread and wine, but Protestants deny the real presence and only say that it is a symbol. The Gospel of John never says that it is a symbol. Like John 20, 21-23 and James 5, 16 JESUS gives his church the power to forgive sins, Protestants say no, that they do not confess and that men cannot forgive sins and thus contradict the word of God !! John 2, 1 says that Mary intercedes even when JESUS has no plans to perform a miracle, Protestants contradict the gospel and say no. John 17, 20-26: Be one as the father and I are one, be united, but the Protestants were divided from the church and between them they are divided into more than 66,000 sects. John 19, 26-27 He says that JESUS gave his mother Mary as a mother to his disciple John and equal to the church, is a spiritual mother. Protestants say no. Matthew 16, 18-19 JESUS gave authority over the other apostles to Peter and left him as the main leader of the church, as pope, father or leader. Like Isaiah 22, 20-22, he says that when a king gives the keys to his servant, that happens to be a father to the community, JESUS is king of kings and his community is the church, that's why the Catholic church has a pope. In Matthew 25, 31-46 JESUS criticizes very strongly those who do not do works for others, and Protestants criticize the Catholic church because it teaches that good works must be done. Protestants teach that we are saved only by grace, when in truth it is that we were saved in the past, JESUS gave himself on the cross by grace and saved us, but want us to do good works. Ephesians 2, 8-9. The key is in verse 10 that they don't read and in another book that Luther tried to eliminate because he gives reason to the Catholic church and contradicts that evil heresy. That book is that of James because in Chapter 2, 14-26 it says that faith without works is a dead faith. And ask. Can that faith save him without works? Even stronger is what JESUS will say about the works on the day of judgment. Matthew 25, 31-46. This is only a summary of the gospels, if we were other topics in the apostolic letters, we will also see other contradictions of the Protestants to the gospel of JESUS CHRIST! The cross, moving to another faith, prayer to the dead, purgatory, repeated prayers, the images, they say that Mary had more children, they say that the bible is the truth and the bible itself says that the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of the Truth 1 Timothy 3, 15. They say it does not matter to be in any church etc ... All contrary to what the word of God teaches!
ua-cam.com/channels/PQA0iLLJm-NJCYfngzsk4Q.html
I really enjoyed listening to your debate. I'm a 'cradle Catholic' and old enough to remember the Latin mass. Much has changed in terms of how we debate nowadays compared to the I was young. The Catholic church teaches about the mystery of faith and that we steadied accept much without explanation but to accept in faith for example the transubsrantiation. We are blessed to be taught this from the get go. I love my protestant evangelical friends as they have such zeal for the word of God in the Bible. I will follow your channel with interest as I need to learn more as to how best to defend my faith in a kind way. I do listen to some evangelical programmes and am disappointed when people make general statements about Catholicism made from ignorance when it's clear that they have never tried to understand the Faith. Your example of the 'cult belief' slur is a case in point. God bless you both.🌹
You've got a new Catholic subscriber! I love dialouging with my evangelical brothers and sisters, and I'm glad I can watch some of your content!
To make a quick comment on the Eucharist I would use it in this since: when Christ came to earth, he was man; but also God incarnate at the same time. So what really looked like a mere man was actually the eternal God in the form of a man hiding his divinity (until the transfiguration). I view the Eucharist the same way; it's another way to physically and spiritually experience Christ on earth, even though he is at the Fathers right hand in Heaven.
But, anyone who is born of the Spirit can experience Christ through the Spirit.
What a respectful discussion❤️. “See how these Christians love one another”.
P.S. Matt, the church does teach Adam and Eve are historical. How God creates them as the first humans is open to interpretation (that is he could have used literal dust if the earth or he could have used evolution but there were two original parents. It’s in the Catechism (the CCC) for future reference
I think that Matt has a completely unfair advantage in unduly influencing people with that accent! Crikey, mate!
Seriously though, I wish more people could sit down and talk like this. I might not agree with some of Matt's answers, but it was a very insightful interview, that was done with thoughtfulness and grace.
Cameron and Matt look so young here 😁
On Cameron's point about "how do saints know of our prayers?" My understanding was that our prayers are made known to them by the angels and specifically our guardian angels
Where is your authority for that understanding in scripture though?
@@Steve-qr2lm Don't ask that please.
@@Steve-qr2lm where is sola scriptura in the bible?
You sound like someone who has read a math book, makes up a math axiom, and then keeps using the made up axiom.
Thank you for this discussion. I'd like to add one thing to Matt's argument regarding the intercession of Mary and the saints...the end goal is always to bring us closer to Christ! My prayer (or petition) to Mary may look like, "Mary, help me love your son as you did" (in fact, the rosary is all about this...meditating on the life of Jesus and asking Mary for her intercession in bringing us closer to him).
Yes, the reason he doesn’t understand is that the Bible prohibits inquiring of the dead and we have no Biblical example of praying to deceased saints. To a Protestant (or reformer), it’s an alien concept. That’s why you hear that objection or mischaracterization of Mary “worship”. Protestants pray only to God, in the name of Jesus Christ, thus, prayer = worship
@@KristiLEvans1so dead are dead they are not alive in christ. Happy to know your stand.
@@jojojohn1452 you read your theology into what I said, then got snide. Theology is for adult discussion and thought.
Bottom line: We are told not to inquire of mere *people* who have gone before us. Why would we, when we have the Triune Godhead?
@@KristiLEvans1
1) so according to you there is no merit in asking other mere people to pray for us. Because we have triune Godhead.
2)And if you felt mocked by my words then I'm sorry.
@@jojojohn1452 no. You aren’t reading what I’m saying at all. You’re trying to pick a fight. The Bible says we don’t inquire of *people* who have gone on before us. People who have departed this life and are with Christ.
On the point of baptism, you can be saved without been baptised. Now, it is something that Christian should do because Christ did it. But it is not a requisite for you to be saved. Because Jesus, when He was at the cross, He didn't ask the thief (the other person on the cross) who wanted to be saved, Jesus didn't ask him if he was baptised. He simply accepted him because he recognized who Jesus was.
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16
Jesus is saying to be baptized in order to be saved.
@@LiTeAsAsNoW your own verse contradicts what you said "but whoever does not believe will be condemned". He didn't say "whoever isn't baptized, will be condemned". Nice try tho.
Heber A. Carrillo I agree
@@hebera.carrillo2049 the verse does not contradict him. The assumption here is that the one who has faith WILL be baptized because they go hand in hand and baptism is commanded by Our Lord. It doesn't need to say "the one who does not believe and who is not baptized" because by the person's very lack of belief, baptism is not even an option. If they don't believe they WON'T be baptized so it doesn't need to be mentioned. This quote inextricably ties faith and baptism together. WE are bound by the sacraments, but GOD is not. He can save whom He will, and when the good thief was saved, it was before the command was given to the apostles to bring the gospel out to the world and baptize everyone. Not everyone receives a water baptism. Some express their faith and die martyrs before they are able to be baptized. They are, in effect, baptized in their own blood. Others have the desire but again, for some reason or another, die before their intention to receive baptism can be realized. We call this baptism of desire. In both baptism by blood and baptism of desire, you still have one important thing: the desire to obey the command of Christ to be baptized for one's salvation. It is the entrance into the covenant, the replacement of circumcision. Faith is necessary, but true faith carries with it the duty of the obedience of faith. If you truly believe, you will, as the Blessed Virgin Mary says, "Do what he tells you." Looking for loopholes in scripture to avoid the obedience of faith is a poor way to show the Lord that we desire to enter through the narrow gate.
Wow Matt is so knowledgeable I learnt alot as a Catholic here! Keep such conversations going...
I came to believe in the power of Eucharist, strangely, at a time when I strenuously objected to it. I believed Holy Communion to be only a symbol, and an ordinance of the church (not a sacrament...didn't believe in those, really) to remember Jesus' death and resurrection. I believed the catholic (both big and little "c"'s) view to be idolatry, or some belief that Jesus, who had died once for all, was to be repeatedly sacrificed again and again (which I know is not what Catholics believe now). One Sunday, I visited an American Episcopal Church where Eucharist was celebrated. I decided to take Communion as a Christian believer, but that I would never believe it was more than a symbol. When I took the chalice, I tasted blood. Salty blood. Just like when you cut your finger and instinctively put your finger in your mouth...you taste blood, right? After I knelt to take the cup, I'm sure my eyes got big with the surprise of it. After that, I could no longer think or know, ever, that Eucharist isn't both symbol and substance of Christ. Why I know this experience came from God, particularly, is because it worked to bring me back into communion with an entire sector of the Body of Christ whom I theretofore had believed to be heretics, at best, and idolaters, at worst. This would include, btw, not just Roman Catholics, but also Orthodox Christians, Lutherans and Armenian Christians. (Have I left anyone out? I learned that HUGE numbers of Christians, including some protestants, believe in the Real Presence of Christ in Eucharist. Our Lutheran siblings call it "the Sacrament of the Altar".) What brings me sorrow is that so many Christians separate ourselves among various "communions" and refuse to share the Lord's table together. Eucharist is our blessed unifying experience. If we want unity, the Lord's Table is the key, not just dogma, much of which is not essential to the faith.
I was baptized in the Catholic Church when I was a baby so I’m saved and to be really honest I have been a believer for as long as I can remember but I always wanted to know more about Catholicism because my Mom is a Protestant who was raised catholic
I would point out that are many forms of prayer: thanks giving, worship, intercession, praise, etc. Folks post all the time on twitter or facebook to pray from them or their family going through issues. I pray for them. As a Catholic I also ask the saints not just the folks around me. The Lord if the God of the Living not the dead: and the 'dead' are never really gone just in :another state: ie Matthew 17:2 for example. And Mary has a proven track record for intercession: she asked Jesus for help and He turned water into wine.
Dead people can't hear your prayers.
@@tadizzz This view is a bit narrow for me. Why? There is a rich history in the Church and Bible to the contrary. The whole point of Jesus ministry was to overcome sin and bring life. Not just for the few that happen to be alive at the time but for the whole of human history past, present, and future. Jesus is Lord of All people and all Time. Death falls before Him as does Sin. . The Bible both old and new testament show death has not sting ... and can be overcome by the Power of God.
Revelation 21:4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes,g and death will be no more,h neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be any more. The former things have passed away.”
Matthew 17:3 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
The prophet Elijah prays and God raises a young boy from death (1 Kings 17:17-24) - so no the dead are in another state
John 11 Jesus called in a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.
They aren’t dead. They are more alive than we are 😂 Christ is the vine and we are the branches. We are all alive in Christ. Oh the hostility!
@@kp3871 I think the issue is more that only God is omnipotent, the saints are not, and prayer was given to us to communicate with God. I don't doubt the saints are praying for us as they observe these last days from heaven and carry out whatever plans God has for them, however they aid in the spiritual battle. But if God alone is all knowing, if He is the One who bends down to listen, then how do the saints hear our prayers? Others in the comments have cited Christ "praying" to Lazarus, or Peter "praying" to Tabitha. But I'm not convinced they are praying to them so much as they are commanding them, in the way that Christ commands the sea- is he praying to the sea?
@@libbycatherine www.catholic.com/search?q=intercession%20of%20the%20saints have at it
After watching this video, I finally believe there is hope for Christianity. Keep up the good work guys.
The whole Church is in communion, the Church Triumphant (those in Heaven), the Church Suffering (those in Purgatory) and the Church Militant (those alive on earth). The communion and connection comes through God in the Trinity, I have always thought mostly through the working of the Holy Spirit which connects us all.
I love this!
Notice brother when we pray to Mary, saints and angels we end or respond with PRAY FOR US. Whereas when we pray to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit we end it with SAVE US, HAVE MERCY. We NEVER worship our saints esp Mama Mary we ask their help. To Jesus through Mary. To God the Father through Jesus brother.
YES!
I dont understand you how you Catholics are so openly deceived by your own circle reasoning.
Speaking to the dead, meaning those that have departed from this world in an attempt as a direct line of communication, especially requesting something is PRAYER.
How do you not get that?
And even if your flawed explanation somehow did show that you are not really 'praying' but simply asking from deceased Saints then you are at the very least still speaking to the dead as if they can hear you.
That is strictly forbidden in Scripture if I'm not mistaken. Where can you support that anywhere?
And even if you could somehow twist a verse here and there to support speaking to the dead, how do you hope to defend creating multiple statues of Mary in the Church.
It is by no accident that your services and rituals have much in common with old pagan worship.
Much that the average Catholic is not even aware of.
Heinrich Bosch I was born and raised Catholic but I completely agree with you, I can no longer accept these Catholic attempts at explanations for everything you have mentioned in good conscience.
@@heinrichbosch630 saints are not dead. What is dead is the body but not the soul bro. Actually even sinners are not dead their soul is alive in hell.
How is prayer not worship? Where in the Bible does Jesus or the Apostles tell us, or show by example, to pray through the saints?
Couple of issues w doctrine here prov 4:2. If christ added to or removed from the law of moses (God) deut 4:2; 12:32 he would have sinned. [I am willing to dialogue here with any question rebuke or rebuttal just @eni g then comment.] (law of God see lev 26:3; duet 4:40; ez 36:27; mark 7 " you break the law of God... for moses said") Christ told us to be careful to obey and do the law of Moses (God) matt 23:1-5, 13, 15, 23 to keep both the letter and the spirit in balance . He also tells those who practice lawlessness to depart from him matt 7:21-23. Sin by definition is breaking the law of moses lev 5:17; numb. 15:30-31 1 john 3:4 and willful habitual sin has no sacrifice left. heb 10. Salvation by grace through faith. Blessings by law through obedience. James 2 tells us without obedience and workss of the law our faith is dead. If we then rely on the law for salvation we fall short. Get off the pendulum of mans tradition and follow Gods word. Ex 20:6 Deut 5:10. To receive his mercy (grace) we must obey him which is also to show him love. Matt 14:21. As for that was for the israelites arguement not the gentiles is a straw man arguement. Eph 2:11-19 tells us once we are in the faith we are now citizens of the common wealth of Israel. Lev 24:22 one law for all. We also have all the grafted into israel verses. Not Jewish law but Gods law mediated through Moses. Another straw arg. Is we cant keep it all so dont keep any. Lets try that on judgement day "why did u lie steal cheat murder maintain uncleaness?" I believe Christ gave a good foreshadow of that in matt 22. As for Paul we all need to be careful as peter warns 2 peter 3 about being ignorant of the law and its application least we fall away with the lawless. Paul says we are to establish (set up on a perminant basis) the law romans 3:31. This is short version and yes ive read galatians which im working on a thesis with. Listen to Christ words and be a berean w pauls claims w the backdrop of the old testament. The only covenant that christ brought was the removal of the penalty of death by taking it upon himself for our transgressions(sins) against Gods (mediated through moses) law. All of it as it applies individually man woman land owner servant master leper priest ect. We are called to be blameless in keeping the law not perfect psalm 119:1 and on. Also see 19:7. As for baptism its no diff than circumcision. Its first of the heart then outward. Jerome and Augustine argued against the first century churchs application of the obedience of the law for gentiles in being the "ringleader of the Nazarenes" being Paul and the like acts 24:14 seen in ephiphanius: panarion 29; jeromes comments on isaiah 8:14 identifying Nazarenes c.f. his letter numb 75. They intentionally separated gentile believers and those who followed Christ and the law inspite of scriptural evidence which is prophicied to happen in Daniel ez jer isa and all the new testament for the love of many will grow cold. Not to mention the direct contridiction of both positions found in 1 Timothy.
To *Protest* the Church FACTUALLY traced back to Jesus Christ Himself is something just SO wrong. God wanted ONE CHURCH.
One Church, not the church of Rome. The church of Christ. Orthodox beg to differ that the RCC is founded by Christ. So do Protestants.
@@wilsonw.t.6878 The orthodox beg to differ with the catholic church on everything, no matter what it is. For example: Orthodox theologians were professing the immaculate conception before it was declared ex cathedra by the catholic church. However, as soon as it was declared ex cathedra around 1850, then immediately the orthodox church turned around and started condemning the doctrine. Just food for thought, have a good one.
But the Popes and the Catholic Church were CORRUPT during the time of Martin Luther and the Reformers.
Protestant: 0 Catholic: 1
Yeah, you see protestants really struggle with theology...
Great discussion. Matt is doing a good job of promoting the Catholic Church. It would be great if more protestants.came over to Catholicism. It is the only church that can be traced back to Jesus himself.
Be Skeptical Of Everything That is stupid
Tony Hanrahan The Orthodox may beg to differ
@@Papasquatch73 they do, because they have no faith in the bible when it says the holy spirit will teach us everything through his Church which he established through his apostles.
They do not have supernatural faith, but are modernists.
I guess my question to this would be, ok even if you're right, why should I be a catholic? Like your saying it's ok to pray to mary and the saints cause its just like asking other people to pray for you but what if I dont want to? What if I just want to pray to jesus? It just seems like nothing is compelling me to be catholic, he was just defending the catholic traditions by saying that they arent sinful cause the early church fathers believed the same things.
Hey Ian, I'm a convert and I'm gonna take a stab at answering some of your questions!
"but what if I dont want to? "
Yeah, totally legit. You don't have to. The church doesn't say that you 'have to ask saints to pray for you' as far as I know, but it would be pretty difficult not to since their intercession is invoked in Mass, so I guess, to not partake would be akin to saying that you don't love the body of Christ (if the teaching is true of course) and if you don't love the body of Christ then it would seem that you're not perfectly united to Christ's will perhaps
"What if I just want to pray to jesus?"
Corporately, as a church in Mass, I don't think you could avoid it unless you refused to partake in the Mass, but privately there is no problem. I think it would be one thing to say, "I don't believe in the Communion of Saints and therefore refuse to partake in prayers that ask for the intercession of saints" as such a belief would informally excommunicate you from the church. But it is totally fine, in your own personal prayer life to pray only to Jesus but as a convert I would press the question - why wouldn't you want to get as many people to pray for you? The point to this question is its not an either/or proposition. Its not either the saints OR Jesus but instead a Both/And proposition. Ask the Saints to pray for you, and since they are perfected in righteousness they would know how to pray for you perfectly according to God's will AND you can go to Jesus. Its kind of like if you were going to speak to, oh lets say the president (any president, not one in particular), wouldn't you want to go to his office with your petition with his Mother, his chief of staff, his secretary, his closest followers as well as an army of other people you've asked to pray for you? In that case, intercessory prayer also acts as a mechanism of unity in mind and spirit. So, with that, I would simply ask why one would not want all those people in their corner, and given that we are commanded to intercede for one another, it seems that it would be a good thing.
"he was just defending the catholic traditions by saying that they arent sinful cause the early church fathers believed the same things."
I think he was simply pointing to the idea that we all agree that scripture can be interpreted many different ways and the only sure way to solve the interpretation crisis is to provide witnesses. So, if we can show or discover what beliefs were taught and held by the earliest christians then that gives good reason to hold certain beliefs and interpretations. Baptism and the Eucharist are perfect examples. The Church was unanimous on these points, including all the men personally ordained by the apostles themselves. So, if they weren't true we would find someone who knew an apostle that taught otherwise - but this is not a fail safe because there will be tough issues and this is where a Catholic would point out that Jesus promised there would be an earthly authority, a church, that would bind and loose infallibly and if that church doesn't exist in every century then that would falsify Christ as God and it would leave us with scriptural relativism - where we could have moral certainty about what we believe but we could never actually be certain that we hold the objectively true understanding of the faith.
A syllogism would look something ike this:
1 If the Apostles taught 'X' then so would their successors (as well as the belief being held and practiced)
2. The successors did/didnot teach 'X' (this premise would depend upon historical facts)
C: Therefore 'X' is / is not an Apostolic belief.
@@tysonguess Hey Tyson, thanks for all the info, I'm still definitely not sold on it personally but I have a better understanding of your point of view and I appreciate the answer!
@@ianconnelly1692 Right on man, that's awesome!
As a convert, I was in the same boat beforehand.
Now, knowing there are so many Saints who did incredible things for God - and they struggled with *the same things I struggle with* gives me hope, and makes me feel not alone.
Having brothers and sisters in the faith here on Earth is great, but knowing that there are brothers and sisters who have completed the race successfully - and want to help.
It's more than I thought it would be. A lot more.
I was trapped in sins I thought I could never escape. The intercession of my older brothers and sisters has borne fruit in my life I thought impossible.
Matt makes a very good point at about 44:30. He basically said that you should always get your information from a reliable source. In other words, if you want to know something about the Catholic Church you should seek information from the Catholic Church. If you want to know what a particular brand of Protestant believes you should seek information from that particular brand of Protestant Church (e.g. Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, etc.). Stated another way, don't ask Ford or Chrysler what they think of Chevrolets.
In a dream, God commanded King Abimelech to ask Abraham to intercede for him: “For [Abraham] is a prophet and he will pray for you, so you shall live” (Gen. 20:7). When the Lord is angry with Job’s friends because they did not speak rightly about God, he tells them, “Let my servant Job pray for you because I will accept his [prayer], lest I make a terror on you” (Job 42:8)
Celine, human intercession and mediation with God is very common in the Old Testament. Abraham and Moses are very good examples. So also all the prophets of the OT whose ministry is nothing but mediation. There are also many examples of intercession in the New Testament. Our mediation can be understood and justified only as sharing the mediatory role of Jesus.
in both examples you gave, the people interceding in prayer were bodily alive on earth
@@thetruthshed In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, the latter prays to Abraham who is in heaven, which means: can we not also pray to Abraham? In the story of the Transfiguration, Jesus speaks to Moses and Elijah: isn’t it possible for us also to speak to them which they may hear but may not answer us directly? In one of the Psalms, the psalmist asks angels to praise God: can we not ask angels to pray to God? The book of Revelation tells us that the saints in heaven offer prayers to God in the form of incense: whose prayers are they except from those on earth?
If you believe that Jesus is from the line of David and he sits on the throne of David, why can’t you believe in the institution of the Queen Mother in the Old Testament whose role was to intercede for others with the king? If Jesus is the King, why can’t you accept his Mother as the Queen Mother whose role in heaven is to intercede for her children?
@@albertdevasahayam6781 the rich man was clearly unsaved and in hell why should any of us pattern our prayers after his when Jesus tells us to pray to the Father in His name and Jesus prayed to the Father? James, Peter and John do not speak to Moses or Elijah they speak to Jesus, and then they see Jesus alone. Mary prayed to God calling Him her savior, implying that she was not sinless which another Psalm and Paul in Romans witness as well, that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, all except Jesus Christ. Hebrews says there is one mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus. With many other clear warnings to not pray to the dead or seek familiar spirits in scripture to protect God's people from deception from the devil why not just pray to God directly as Jesus gives us the ability in His love for us to do. I am not saying the dead in Christ couldn't possibly hear the prayers of saints on earth, true believers in Jesus Christ living on earth are saints by the way (His Way of defining saints, not man's) And David actually more than likely was declaring Truth that angels worship God than petitioning them to do so. And to talk about what is possible (anything with God is possible) is to ignore somewhat at least that God clearly warns us that He does not want us doing many things that are possible because He knows us better than we know ourselves and are easily tempted and deceived. Many people have had spiritual experiences they thought were from God and were mistaken, Eve was the first.
I´m a failed Catholic, but still, a Catholic. Also, I owe much to protestant philosophy of religion and apologetics.
@am101171
How do you "fail" to accept free grace?
As a Catholic I also learn a lot from Protestants textual research. Tho Catholic natural theology (contra non-theist) is more solid, I still learn a lot from William Lane Craig, Michael Jones (he might be on the road to become Catholic... maybe).
@@brando3342 Catholicism doesn't reject free grace given by Jesus to save us from our fallen state
@@takmaps How then can you "fail" to be Catholic? Catholicism requires more than free grace?
@@brando3342 the same way you can fail to be protestant Christian, an example: continuing in your sin even after being "saved"
Are you a successful protestant then if you continue habitual sins etc?
Any chance you can interview Steve Ray or Trent Horn?
I think it is probably worth pointing out that the "substance" in "transubstantiation" has a different sense than how the word "substance" is used today. By "substance" we usually mean the "stuff" out of which a thing is made, which we identify and define according to its properties. The older sense of the word, though, is something closer to the idea of the "whatness" of a thing. In this specific case, the question to ask is "what is the substantial form of flesh?"
Keep in mind that every material thing is made of what is able to become something else (which we call matter) and what it actually is at any given moment. For instance, a flower is this actual flower in front of us, but its matter can become any number of things. The matter is distinct from the flower. It is the form of the flower that makes this particular coagulation of matter in front of us a *flower*, and not something else. If a flower dies, it looks very much the same at first. It has all the properties of a flower, but those properties no longer have the same kinetic relationship to each other. Properly speaking, a dead flower isn't a flower anymore, even if it looks like it; a flower is a living thing, after all.
So, back to the question, what is the substantial form of flesh? Flesh is that by which an animal is extended in physical space (i.e., has the property we call "quantity"). In the case of the eucharist, this is what the bread changes into. This explanation would need to be expanded, of course, to incorporate the other things which it also becomes (blood, soul, and divinity), but the basic principle would be the same. As to *how* God brings this about, though, is anyone's guess. He's good at doing things like that.
How do saints listen to our prayers? Are they omniscient or omnipotent to hear our prayers? I think the answer is found in 2 Peter 1:4 where Peter says that through divine power we may become participants of the divine nature. The saints in heaven must surely participate fully in divine nature though they don't become equal to God. It means certainly that they share God's attributes at least according to their capacity. In 1 John 3:2, John tells us that when God is revealed, we will be like him, for we will see him as he is. I suppose saints in heaven see God face to face and they must be like him sharing his qualities and powers. Therefore, according to the Bible, it is possible to conclude that saints in heaven can perfectly hear our prayers and convey the same to God.
@Anden Ekadi Ok. What is your interpretation of the scripture passages that I have explained?
That just sounds like your personal theory or opinion, it does not sound like a reasonable position to conclude from scripture.
@@Steve-qr2lm I am not a Protestant to give my personal theory or opinion. I based my explanation of how saints in heaven can hear our prayers on two scripture passages: 2 Peter 1:4 and 1 John 3:2. We can give more examples: the case of Moses and Elijah visiting Jesus on the mount of the Transfiguration to show that these two prophets could hear the voice of Jesus on earth. The prayer of the rich man to Abraham is another example: if a man in hell could pray, why can't a saint in heaven?
In other words, praying to saints is perfectly scriptural and reasonable.
Matt answered the questions, as the name of the video says, but I was expecting some counterargument I don't know if you didn't want to or what happened? Maybe was just me
Protestant sects are neither evangelical nor Christian. Only the Catholic church is truly Christian and Evangelical. The others claim to be evangelical, but they are not. Example: The Gospel of John 6, 48-71 says that JESUS truly dwells in consecrated bread and wine, but Protestants deny the real presence and only say that it is a symbol. The Gospel of John never says that it is a symbol. Like John 20, 21-23 and James 5, 16 JESUS gives his church the power to forgive sins, Protestants say no, that they do not confess and that men cannot forgive sins and thus contradict the word of God !! John 2, 1 says that Mary intercedes even when JESUS has no plans to perform a miracle, Protestants contradict the gospel and say no. John 17, 20-26: Be one as the father and I are one, be united, but the Protestants were divided from the church and between them they are divided into more than 66,000 sects. John 19, 26-27 He says that JESUS gave his mother Mary as a mother to his disciple John and equal to the church, is a spiritual mother. Protestants say no. Matthew 16, 18-19 JESUS gave authority over the other apostles to Peter and left him as the main leader of the church, as pope, father or leader. Like Isaiah 22, 20-22, he says that when a king gives the keys to his servant, that happens to be a father to the community, JESUS is king of kings and his community is the church, that's why the Catholic church has a pope. In Matthew 25, 31-46 JESUS criticizes very strongly those who do not do works for others, and Protestants criticize the Catholic church because it teaches that good works must be done. Protestants teach that we are saved only by grace, when in truth it is that we were saved in the past, JESUS gave himself on the cross by grace and saved us, but want us to do good works. Ephesians 2, 8-9. The key is in verse 10 that they don't read and in another book that Luther tried to eliminate because he gives reason to the Catholic church and contradicts that evil heresy. That book is that of James because in Chapter 2, 14-26 it says that faith without works is a dead faith. And ask. Can that faith save him without works? Even stronger is what JESUS will say about the works on the day of judgment. Matthew 25, 31-46. This is only a summary of the gospels, if we were other topics in the apostolic letters, we will also see other contradictions of the Protestants to the gospel of JESUS CHRIST! The cross, moving to another faith, prayer to the dead, purgatory, repeated prayers, the images, they say that Mary had more children, they say that the bible is the truth and the bible itself says that the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of the Truth 1 Timothy 3, 15. They say it does not matter to be in any church etc ... All contrary to what the word of God teaches!
ua-cam.com/channels/PQA0iLLJm-NJCYfngzsk4Q.html
If there is no ultimate authority , then there is no surety of salvation, for our human conscience can be misleading, misinforming...
As a Catholic, I think of going to saints and asking them to pray for me like going to a specialist. No one thinks twice about going to a specialist dr for a medical issue. I think about going to a specific saint to request that they pray for me for a specific reason in the same way. For example the Patron Saint of cancer is Saint Peregrine because they were miraculously healed of cancer. When my friend had cancer, we asked Saint Peregrine to pray for her healing of cancer.
How do they hear your prayers though?