40:30 Well said, Rudyard. Christianity was, and is, not afraid to make mistakes and admit to said mistakes and change. Reform is built in. Christianity used to tacitly support slavery, anti-academics, and wven banned commerce but they reformed and changed their stances on all these. As a Nigerian Catholic, i never stop loving Christianity. Judeo-Christian morality and frameworks are one of the main reasons why the British were morally compelled to abolish slavery in Nigeria (my country) and most of Africa. Said moral frameworks are also why Christianity became such a popular religion for many of us in Africa, like my grandfather who converted to Christianity despite being raised a traditionalist. Plus, Christianity existed here before European colonialism, despite what some "Pan-African" revisionists say, with Nubia (Sudan) and Abyssinia (Ethiopia)
I mean, the story of the Old Testament being They find God, they abandon God, come back to God and abandons etc. isn’t that the story of us all in our lifespans as well
Everybody is a gangsta until it’s time to do gangsta stuff, and everybody is irreligious until their problems get biblical. No body wants to accept the lord as their shepherd until they’re walking through the valley of the shadow of death.
@@miguelatkinson biblical in the sense of tripping over the same problems of personal and social spiritual decay that the bible and other religious texts address. This can be as obvious as confronting mortal terror, hence the old cliché about there being no atheists in fox-holes. In other times it's subtle, like watching the slow decay of a society which has embraced cynicism and materialism.
It really agitates me how Rudyard consistently disrespects Christianity my attempting to conflate it with having feminine attributes. Men are far more warm and genuine than any woman will ever be.
a good point about the disciples being hard to understand Jesus was that he broke the loaves and the fish to give to the masses, then a couple chapters later he repeats the same miracle in the same book slightly different and Jesus ends saying “Do you still not understand?”
One big difference is that so far For what we know of history Christianity is the most successful religion in the history of mankind The one that reached the largest area The best selling book The highest amount of people involved The highest percentage of people joining compared to the total amount of people alive at that specific time of history Granted this is a moment of historical decline for Christianity and with said decline it's still currently the number 1 religion of the world If it fails and disappears and becomes like the myths of classical world or Nordic countries Then we'll see that it's not THAT different from other religions For the last 2 thousand years and still going ATM it's STILL the religion of the world almost as much as right now football is the world's main sport
I find it funny how Atheist are scared about the increases in religiosity and religious people are scared about the decline in religion in recent times. Both thinking the other is winning.
Good video. I had an idea that stemmed from your last interview. We are in the middle of an ecomomic world war. Where each nations sends its people out to battle, not really caring if they will live as long as the battle is won. Not caring about the daughters and sons that are sent out in to the muck and mire. While the 'leaders' sit is clean spaces setting up the next battle. Not caring about losing the future, only about winning today.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit is LOVE. How do you know if you’re Truly worshipping God? Is your worship loving towards Gods love, creation, your brother and sisters… yourself? If your worship includes hating someone or something that is unjustified you might not be putting God in his correct place. Love your work WhatIfAltheist!
Jesus said I'm where there's a group of people loving each other Do you attract and maintain a circle of wholesome people uplifting each other helping each other to be better and getting ahead in life?
To air my biases, I'm a left leaning centrist ex-christian, so probably not your average viewer judging by the other comments here. You've had a fair few right of center dudes on here all with similar religious beliefs. While I enjoy the alternate perspectives from my own, you seem to have cultivated a bit of an echo chamber, and it's a little boring to listen to. It'd be interesting if you invited some folks on who challenged your usual worldview. You've kind of beat these topics to death agreeing with one another.
Being raised in western wa with a agnostic crystal mom gave me a appreciation for communities that stay together and have shared values. But then I moved to Texas and realized that there are plenty of Bible Belt baptists that use religion to control and influence the population. It’s a balance of having a connected church with strong values, but also don’t exclude the followers from secular society. I feel like the Catholics have done this the best but they have their own centralized power problems (kid didilers). But with that being said, the advances that the enlightenment probably couldn’t have been done with out the church. It’s a complicated issue with no “right” answers.
I often joke about what would happen if nobody Pascal's Wager'd children. Maybe people would only join fully willingly. Maybe people wouldn't be so miserable. Maybe there wouldn't be so many losers in churches. However, that would reduce the number of people adding to the holy pyramid scheme.
To be honest, the left have their own echo chambers. Heck, a lot of conservative content is being censored and when Rudyard does debate with his opposition especially in other podcasts he attends, they either find common ground in their discussions and are respectful or they try to be jerks, don't give Rudyard a chance to speak for his argument, and even make baseless accusations against him. I hope he does improve.
I know this is the wrong channel and you don't really do alt history anymore but I'm curious if you would do an alternate history where the western Roman empire never fell?
On the abortion issue, if you have a tapeworm in you, is that then also a part of your body? If it is not, then neither is the baby, and you are committing murder.
@@stevecooper7883 *yeah*. (Agnostic myself. ) My comment was building on the conversation's talk of, "false gods", relating to underlying emotional needs. It's a deep and nuanced one. Arguing against God is as much a crutch as clinging to God's possible existence. Identity, and worth, are hard to manage(for anyone). It's very easy to fall into distorted thinking to 'solve' them. The only real thing to do is acknowledge the humanity and worth of those who cope either way, *shrug*, and get on with life.
An “objective truth” we try to talk ourselves out of is that god is all good when he is clearly not. The book of Job points this out where god basically says that he can do anything he wants and you should worship and fear me anyway. Jesus was sent as a sacrifice “for” God as much as he is for mankind.
@@scottanno8861 God exorcised his “demons” by casting out Satan and his buddies from heaven then thinks he can create perfect beings on earth and soon finds out they are flawed anyway. The biblical narrative only makes sense when you factor in Gods own quest for salvation. We are made in his image in that way. Or he in ours depends how you look at it… thanks for the comment.😊
Christianity's difference is that you don't have to own your own behavior. You just put it all on Jesus and SWISH! you're totally okay. No accountability, no restitution, no making amends with those you wrong. Jesus paid it all, right? Mess up - meh, no problem. Just tell Jesus you're sorry (for not having been born a god, but instead a frail human). And now you get to go live in a perfect place forever (which sounds boring in all reality - nobody reads a book that starts "And they lived happily ever after.")
@lina12lamm46 Its about serving the community and spreading the word. It's about denying one's self for the betterment of the community. It has nothing to do with self improvement.
0:50 c'mon boys, Orthodoxy is becoming way too prominent to not list when listing denominations. Get Jay Dyer on here. He is a great example of someone who can present Orthodoxy and its significance in today's Geopolitics.
Listening to christians talk about the bible is always a snoozefest, no exceptions. They always sound completely out of touch, talking about their fantasy abstractions that don't even exist. They're like platonists but significantly less interesting.
"Christianity" is just an ice cream store offering hundreds of different manmade flavors, none of which is anything similar to church that exists under the direct authority of the apostles.
Indeed. The way I see it, they range from the "Live and let live" type all the way to hardcore totalitarian. Sometimes I wonder is religions are often simply used as a tool by totalitarians to get what they want. There are plenty of live and let live types that are religious, but most have zero desire to rise up the hierarchy.
It's so embarrassing to see someone still trying to peddle the "it's impossible to be an atheist" trope. People who accept that a God exists are theists, everyone else is an a-theist. It's as simple as that.
It's a boomer mindset ("no atheists in foxholes") when some of the most godless people delight in bloodshed. It's out of touch with the full spectrum of human mentality, even if a majority of individuals might be agnostic at most rather than atheist.
@@mountainmanmike1014 Simple. What is the thing that you hold in esteem above all else? Whose edicts do you base your life around? Who, if they told you to jump off a bridge, would cause you to listen? Whatever your answer is, be it money, sex, the state, or a magic beard man in the sky: That is your God.
As a Christian you believe all gods are false except one. As an Atheist I believe all gods are false. As a Christian you study one god. As an Atheist I study all gods. As a Christian you hide from your religions crimes. As an Atheist I accept that all religions hide from their crimes. As a Christian you see virtue from one view As an Atheist I can look for virtue from anywhere. It's not hard to strawman a position
This. Christ refused the religion of politics - aka false gods - Christians as the Romans Saw Them - Robert L Wilken 1936 He wrote many books on early Christians. This one covers how Roman politicians, scholars, etc., saw Christians within the first 300 years of Christ. It cites numerous Roman & few Greek writers of the age. Romans discussed in great detail & confusion, as to why & how Christians in no way would serve their govts. Christians did not hold any office, wave their flags, attend their ceremonies, be employed, vote, assume any responsibilities at all for the duties of the city under govt. They did not glorify the false religious state of men, serve in their militaries or agents of the state. They didn't even recognize Roman law as the laws they should follow. They were known for their anti govt sedition. They were seen as "sectarian", because govt IS a public religion & Christians were the first to "privatize" religion. Christians subverted govt life & undermined foundations in which societies operated, by human false gods. How? Christians set up a single divine ruler, which was now seen as a rival & threat to a human emperor, who could now fall, simply because people walked away from serving the violent religion of mortal rule. Christ could reign in the hearts of people who left the mortal rules of political religion & did not see the men in govt as their rule makers. Romans knew political structure was a sacred religious structure of law makers, aka gods, which deserved absolute obedience & celebration. Shame on any pastor calling themselves Christian who misses this obvious story all through the Bible. No where will you find Christ teaching people to get involved with the empire. Matthew was called out of tax collecting. The centurion stated twice he was not worthy of Christ's help because he was a man of govt. 2nd Samuel goes into the sin & curses of asking for mortal kings. It's literally all over the Bible.
Time to get Redeemed Zoomer on the podcast
Or Young Anglican
Or Calvin Robinson
Or orthodox Kyle
I was litterly about to comment that before seeing this, and I agree 100%.
Agreed.
Rutger my man! Thanks for keeping me from going braindead at work!
Weird request, but please invite Fredda onto the show. I'd be interested to see whether or not you'd be able to find Common Ground either him.
No way given the dude hates him. It'd be like the Vaush debate
I think Fredda did say he had some good criticism about society, from what I’ve seen in his videos he doesn’t necessarily hate him as a person
40:30 Well said, Rudyard. Christianity was, and is, not afraid to make mistakes and admit to said mistakes and change. Reform is built in. Christianity used to tacitly support slavery, anti-academics, and wven banned commerce but they reformed and changed their stances on all these. As a Nigerian Catholic, i never stop loving Christianity. Judeo-Christian morality and frameworks are one of the main reasons why the British were morally compelled to abolish slavery in Nigeria (my country) and most of Africa. Said moral frameworks are also why Christianity became such a popular religion for many of us in Africa, like my grandfather who converted to Christianity despite being raised a traditionalist. Plus, Christianity existed here before European colonialism, despite what some "Pan-African" revisionists say, with Nubia (Sudan) and Abyssinia (Ethiopia)
I mean, the story of the Old Testament being They find God, they abandon God, come back to God and abandons etc. isn’t that the story of us all in our lifespans as well
No, I never burnt my child alive in a sacrifice to Moloch.
@@notsocrates9529you didnt understand what op meant
@@josecano326 Did they not burn children in sacrifice in the OT/Torah?
Yeah. I'm the prodigal son for sure.
Everybody is a gangsta until it’s time to do gangsta stuff, and everybody is irreligious until their problems get biblical. No body wants to accept the lord as their shepherd until they’re walking through the valley of the shadow of death.
I’m kind of seeing a return to religion for the stupid>
How is it that our problems get "biblical" ?
@@miguelatkinson biblical in the sense of tripping over the same problems of personal and social spiritual decay that the bible and other religious texts address. This can be as obvious as confronting mortal terror, hence the old cliché about there being no atheists in fox-holes. In other times it's subtle, like watching the slow decay of a society which has embraced cynicism and materialism.
@@theodoremccarthy4438 💯
It really agitates me how Rudyard consistently disrespects Christianity my attempting to conflate it with having feminine attributes. Men are far more warm and genuine than any woman will ever be.
a good point about the disciples being hard to understand Jesus was that he broke the loaves and the fish to give to the masses, then a couple chapters later he repeats the same miracle in the same book slightly different and Jesus ends saying “Do you still not understand?”
A vid with Kraut on Europe would be great
These episodes need more viewers. I guess it goes over the heads of a lot of people.
50 year olds bitter about being the only folk holding western society up as we know it, who would've thought they would vent after the formalities 😅
A big ask, but perhaps one day Thomas Sowell may appear on Rudyard's show
One big difference is that so far
For what we know of history
Christianity is the most successful religion in the history of mankind
The one that reached the largest area
The best selling book
The highest amount of people involved
The highest percentage of people joining compared to the total amount of people alive at that specific time of history
Granted this is a moment of historical decline for Christianity and with said decline it's still currently the number 1 religion of the world
If it fails and disappears and becomes like the myths of classical world or Nordic countries
Then we'll see that it's not THAT different from other religions
For the last 2 thousand years and still going ATM it's STILL the religion of the world almost as much as right now football is the world's main sport
I find it funny how Atheist are scared about the increases in religiosity and religious people are scared about the decline in religion in recent times. Both thinking the other is winning.
He did indeed bring it full circle by saying it's the prodigal son story. Impressive.
Just 6000 views. This should be the most watched video on the internet.
Why should it be the most watched video?
@user-zo2ge3oe8d Was just a hyperbole. But the video has very few views compared to other videos on the internet.
Good video. I had an idea that stemmed from your last interview. We are in the middle of an ecomomic world war. Where each nations sends its people out to battle, not really caring if they will live as long as the battle is won. Not caring about the daughters and sons that are sent out in to the muck and mire. While the 'leaders' sit is clean spaces setting up the next battle. Not caring about losing the future, only about winning today.
I often joke that the birth rate is low now because people don't feel like feeding the system more cannon fodder.
Please do a video dedicated to how the left-right have flipped roles.
Fascinating talk, this was very enjoyable.
Normie mindset=chronological snobbery (cslewis)
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit is LOVE.
How do you know if you’re Truly worshipping God?
Is your worship loving towards Gods love, creation, your brother and sisters… yourself?
If your worship includes hating someone or something that is unjustified you might not be putting God in his correct place.
Love your work WhatIfAltheist!
Jesus said I'm where there's a group of people loving each other
Do you attract and maintain a circle of wholesome people uplifting each other helping each other to be better and getting ahead in life?
Praise the Lord!
Get Redeemed Zoomer on a podcast! I think you guys will have an interesting conversation
What is the "Tiktok killing Islam" Rudyard talks about?
To air my biases, I'm a left leaning centrist ex-christian, so probably not your average viewer judging by the other comments here. You've had a fair few right of center dudes on here all with similar religious beliefs. While I enjoy the alternate perspectives from my own, you seem to have cultivated a bit of an echo chamber, and it's a little boring to listen to. It'd be interesting if you invited some folks on who challenged your usual worldview. You've kind of beat these topics to death agreeing with one another.
Being raised in western wa with a agnostic crystal mom gave me a appreciation for communities that stay together and have shared values. But then I moved to Texas and realized that there are plenty of Bible Belt baptists that use religion to control and influence the population. It’s a balance of having a connected church with strong values, but also don’t exclude the followers from secular society. I feel like the Catholics have done this the best but they have their own centralized power problems (kid didilers). But with that being said, the advances that the enlightenment probably couldn’t have been done with out the church. It’s a complicated issue with no “right” answers.
I often joke about what would happen if nobody Pascal's Wager'd children. Maybe people would only join fully willingly. Maybe people wouldn't be so miserable. Maybe there wouldn't be so many losers in churches. However, that would reduce the number of people adding to the holy pyramid scheme.
I'm from your opposite side
Right conservative ex atheist Marxist
But I totally I agree with you Rudyard should invite some opposition
@@tpsamGlad to hear I'm not the only one. I like hearing about what motivates Christians now, but this is like the 4th video with just Christians on.
To be honest, the left have their own echo chambers. Heck, a lot of conservative content is being censored and when Rudyard does debate with his opposition especially in other podcasts he attends, they either find common ground in their discussions and are respectful or they try to be jerks, don't give Rudyard a chance to speak for his argument, and even make baseless accusations against him. I hope he does improve.
Maybe believing in some degree of free will is like a religious belief
Get Trent Horn on common ground!
Y'all should've had Ocean Keltoi on for this debate 😂
Please do a video regarding reasons why religion is good for society?!!!!!
Already did
WhatIfAltHist
His main yt channel
I know this is the wrong channel and you don't really do alt history anymore but I'm curious if you would do an alternate history where the western Roman empire never fell?
That would require so much change, they were really screwed
Wonder how an orthodox would change the conversation?
He should get Kyle and Redeemed Zoomer on at once.
On the abortion issue, if you have a tapeworm in you, is that then also a part of your body? If it is not, then neither is the baby, and you are committing murder.
What happened to the Intro?
Let’s get either Redeemed Zoomer, Calvin Robinson, Kyle, or any other big Christian UA-camr on (preferably Robinson or Zoomer).
Meh, agree to disagree on being an atheist. It's possible. Just improbable if you call yourself an atheist.
There wasn't enough acknowledgement of agnostic belief
@@stevecooper7883 *yeah*. (Agnostic myself. )
My comment was building on the conversation's talk of, "false gods", relating to underlying emotional needs. It's a deep and nuanced one. Arguing against God is as much a crutch as clinging to God's possible existence. Identity, and worth,
are hard to manage(for anyone). It's very easy to fall into distorted thinking to 'solve' them.
The only real thing to do is acknowledge the humanity and worth of those who cope either way, *shrug*, and get on with life.
Feminism and atheism are religions.
An “objective truth” we try to talk ourselves out of is that god is all good when he is clearly not. The book of Job points this out where god basically says that he can do anything he wants and you should worship and fear me anyway. Jesus was sent as a sacrifice “for” God as much as he is for mankind.
That's some good ol fashioned gnosticism!
@@scottanno8861 God exorcised his “demons” by casting out Satan and his buddies from heaven then thinks he can create perfect beings on earth and soon finds out they are flawed anyway. The biblical narrative only makes sense when you factor in Gods own quest for salvation. We are made in his image in that way. Or he in ours depends how you look at it… thanks for the comment.😊
33:58 Fredda I'm guessing.
Hadrian was the first non clean shaven emperor, not MA.
Christianity's difference is that you don't have to own your own behavior. You just put it all on Jesus and SWISH! you're totally okay. No accountability, no restitution, no making amends with those you wrong. Jesus paid it all, right? Mess up - meh, no problem. Just tell Jesus you're sorry (for not having been born a god, but instead a frail human). And now you get to go live in a perfect place forever (which sounds boring in all reality - nobody reads a book that starts "And they lived happily ever after.")
I guess this is why it is the preferred religion of Karens in the USA.
@lina12lamm46 Its about serving the community and spreading the word. It's about denying one's self for the betterment of the community. It has nothing to do with self improvement.
Get Inspiring Philosophy on here. Gotta get some Protestant apologists on here 😂
Or Redeemed Zoomer.
It starts nicely, but turns judgmental about a half hour in.
Can you get gerburt Johnson on the show
Can't deny the chair in the room if I hit you with it
0:50 c'mon boys, Orthodoxy is becoming way too prominent to not list when listing denominations. Get Jay Dyer on here. He is a great example of someone who can present Orthodoxy and its significance in today's Geopolitics.
Or Kyle, but yeah. I want him to also host Redeemed Zoomer, but just any Christian influencer will do.
When did Christianity abolish slavery?
good shit
1:00:15
All ISs come from OUGHTs
Listening to christians talk about the bible is always a snoozefest, no exceptions. They always sound completely out of touch, talking about their fantasy abstractions that don't even exist. They're like platonists but significantly less interesting.
Listen to Brant Pitre
They have a hard time separating history from myth.
Imagine talking about Greek history as if their myths actually happened.
Reddit
"Christianity" is just an ice cream store offering hundreds of different manmade flavors, none of which is anything similar to church that exists under the direct authority of the apostles.
Indeed. The way I see it, they range from the "Live and let live" type all the way to hardcore totalitarian.
Sometimes I wonder is religions are often simply used as a tool by totalitarians to get what they want. There are plenty of live and let live types that are religious, but most have zero desire to rise up the hierarchy.
Reddit.
It's so embarrassing to see someone still trying to peddle the "it's impossible to be an atheist" trope.
People who accept that a God exists are theists, everyone else is an a-theist. It's as simple as that.
It's a boomer mindset ("no atheists in foxholes") when some of the most godless people delight in bloodshed. It's out of touch with the full spectrum of human mentality, even if a majority of individuals might be agnostic at most rather than atheist.
They mean this: it is impossible to be a non believer.
@@Celestial1000 Why?
But wouldn't this make Buddhists atheists?
@@mountainmanmike1014 Simple. What is the thing that you hold in esteem above all else? Whose edicts do you base your life around? Who, if they told you to jump off a bridge, would cause you to listen? Whatever your answer is, be it money, sex, the state, or a magic beard man in the sky: That is your God.
ll
As a Christian you believe all gods are false except one.
As an Atheist I believe all gods are false.
As a Christian you study one god.
As an Atheist I study all gods.
As a Christian you hide from your religions crimes.
As an Atheist I accept that all religions hide from their crimes.
As a Christian you see virtue from one view
As an Atheist I can look for virtue from anywhere.
It's not hard to strawman a position
Ow, the cringe...
This.
Christ refused the religion of politics - aka false gods -
Christians as the Romans Saw Them - Robert L Wilken 1936
He wrote many books on early Christians.
This one covers how Roman politicians, scholars, etc., saw Christians within the first 300 years of Christ. It cites numerous Roman & few Greek writers of the age.
Romans discussed in great detail & confusion, as to why & how Christians in no way would serve their govts. Christians did not hold any office, wave their flags, attend their ceremonies, be employed, vote, assume any responsibilities at all for the duties of the city under govt.
They did not glorify the false religious state of men, serve in their militaries or agents of the state. They didn't even recognize Roman law as the laws they should follow. They were known for their anti govt sedition.
They were seen as "sectarian", because govt IS a public religion & Christians were the first to "privatize" religion.
Christians subverted govt life & undermined foundations in which societies operated, by human false gods.
How?
Christians set up a single divine ruler, which was now seen as a rival & threat to a human emperor, who could now fall, simply because people walked away from serving the violent religion of mortal rule. Christ could reign in the hearts of people who left the mortal rules of political religion & did not see the men in govt as their rule makers.
Romans knew political structure was a sacred religious structure of law makers, aka gods, which deserved absolute obedience & celebration.
Shame on any pastor calling themselves Christian who misses this obvious story all through the Bible.
No where will you find Christ teaching people to get involved with the empire.
Matthew was called out of tax collecting. The centurion stated twice he was not worthy of Christ's help because he was a man of govt. 2nd Samuel goes into the sin & curses of asking for mortal kings. It's literally all over the Bible.
That obviously did not last and the catholic church is an obvious example