Thank you so much for sharing! Im a jewelry student looking to alloy my own white gold without nickle and palladium, thought about platinum but very little literature is available about it, this is amazing!😊
Thanks Tate, That's exactly it, I wanted it to be free knowledge as alloys are normally closely guarded secrets by jeweller's and I want everyone to benefit from this lovely alloy.
This is amazing! Thank you! I want a platinum white gold to use in enameling. Could you also explain what the salt Peter does? I haven’t used it before.
Salt Peter is used to remove impurity from the metal during the smelting process. It's a top tip for removing impurity from any gold alloy that may crack during milling, forging, etc
Hi again David, I was able to make the alloy successfully and it enamels beautifully! Thank you so much! I was wondering if you cast this alloy? If you do I was wondering if you have any idea what temperature the metal is and if I could get away with using a regular crucible or if I would need a high temperature crucible? I’m going to get Platinum investment just to be safe but I’m having a hard time finding a platinum crucible to fit my casting machine.
@@Kateleeshort That's great news that the alloy is working well for you. It's has very similar melting point to a 18ct Pd alloy so you shouldn't need to use a Platinum equipment to cast it. I seem recall the melting point is around 1300°C to 1400°C but I stand to be corrected. Platinum is around 1700°C to 1768°C and we only use very little in the 18ct alloy so if your alloy is mixed properly you should have any problems casting it. I hope this helps Thanks David
Thanks 😊, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I will be working on more content in the future, I do have another video on repairing a super thin bangle ua-cam.com/video/xF3JnmDePTQ/v-deo.html
Unfortunately not, non-ferrous metals need additives in them to change their properties. Heat hardening will actually make it softer as heating and cooling it off quickly will have an annealing effect.
Great video, I like your approach. I had already tested a gold and platinum mix by mistake and found the color great. Have you tried this 18K alloy for lost wax casting? Thanks again for sharing!
Why add the copper and silver besides the copper being hard? Money savings? Could you just do 25 percent platinum ? I am thinking about making a ring with 25 percent palladium and the rest gold. Do you think that would make a bright white? I dont know if ill be able to get the tools for working with platinum so i dont mind spending the extra 5 dollars per gram to make it easier to alloy and work with.
The money saving aspect is not the issue here, copper changes the chrystal structure of the alloy making it harder wearing, the silver in the alloy would combat the intense gray from the palladium. The alloy in this video was originally a palladium alloy, I used it as a white gold alloy in my business for over 15 years with zero complaints from clients. A palladium and gold only alloy is possible but adding too much palladium will make the alloy a bit unsuitable and it may give you problems with cracking. Hope this helps
Great video! It's one of the few videos on the topic, so I greatly appreciate it! I'm looking for a pale yellow, almost (champagne look) alloy for a ring, and I was thinking this alloy of white gold un-rhodium plated would work well. Do you agree? Also, in one of your previous comments, you mentioned the 1 part silver is a filler, and the copper adds strength. Can I go with 2 parts copper and no silver to get more strength, and get the desired pale yellow color I'm going for? Thank you!
The Platinum will actually give it a white/gray undertone instead of a yellow undertone the only way to get more of a yellow undertone is to put less Platinum into the alloy, you can add a little more copper if you want but pulling the silver out won't do much for the colour. Silver and gold only in an alloy without the copper usually make a green gold alloy which in my opinion look more like a pale yellow than green but it's very soft. Copper usually makes an alloy stronger / harder So instead of a 15% Platinum , you can do a 5% and it will look quite pale yellow or you can use Nickel instead of Platinum if it's legal to do so in your country. Hope this helps.
@David Giardino Vitri Thank you for your input! It sure seems to be a tough balance between color and durability haha. Nickel is legal in my country, however, I would like to avoid it due to the potential allergen risk since I wouldn't be plating the ring. I actually really like the color of the alloy you made in this video, but I will take your word for the undertones since color is harder to tell from video. If I went 5% platinum and 75% gold, what would you recommend for the other 20%? All copper or a mix or copper and silver? Thanks again!
What about casting a 25% platinum 75% gold? I've always wondered how that would come out, look, and how hard it is compared to traditional 18k alloying.
You do need a little copper in the alloy to facilitate the hardness just plat and gold might not do it. It's worth experimenting with. My alloy in the video is harder than a 18ct palladium alloy but not as hard as a 18ct Nickel alloy.
Hi, I know this video is about white gold but I was wondering if you could give some insight. I've been looking into 22ct gold recently, and was wondering if all the white metals in the industry standard 'mix' could be substituted for platinum. So basically 91.7% gold, 5.5% platinum and 2.8% copper. If possible would this be a superior alloy in terms of durability, and how do you think the colour of the gold would differ from standard 22ct? Thanks for your time.
Concerning 22ct I've never had to alloy 22ct white before. However you may have a very soft 22ct if you use platinum and copper you only because the copper is what changes the property’s of the gold to make it harder. You might have to use nickel instead of platinum if you want it to be harder.
Hello! Awesome video, looking forward to trying. What kind of acid do you dip in after? New to this so I’m not familiar, Is it similar to pickling with hot plate? Or just room temp acid and move on to rolling? Thank you!
Awesome,thank you so much for the reply! One more question I have been researching quite a bit if you don’t mind. I was going to make an 18ct 6.6g ring with the formula you provided (5g gold, 1g platinum and .3g of copper and silver). I am stuck on what to solder with, can I just use a very think piece of itself to solder or will this not work? Or can I just get any 18ct white gold solder or make my own with other lower melting point metals (if so any ideas for a good combo for this specific ring?) I was just concerned if the color would be different at the joint! Thank you again :) -Kayvan
I Know that alloy but it was not really popular in South Africa. It's a really good alloy. It's a bit softer than a Platinum Ruthenium alloy or a Platinum Copper alloy. The best thing to remember about alloys is, the simpler the alloy, the less problems it will give you and all of the ones mentioned above (including your suggestion) are simpler alloys. 🙂
Hello David. Great video, very informative. I have a question. How feasible is it to make a ring consisting of just Gold and Platinum? Let's say the ratios are 50 : 50 Au-Pt or maybe even 37.5 : 62.5 Au-Pt. Will it be too soft? Too hard? Thanks.
@@REALSLIK Yes, you can use it for Cuban link chains and Yes you can substitute the Pt out for Pd. I use both Pd or Pt in the same 5 part alloys, its just that Pt is cheaper than Pd at the moment so that's why I did the video to show people that it can be done.
So it's the weight of gold you made in 18ct x the purity out of 1000 parts ÷ by the purity you want in the end. Eg 15g of fine gold makes 20g of 18ct in the video. So 20g of 18ct will make 35.97g of 10ct. Formula 20g of 18ct x 750 ÷ 417 = 35.97g of 14ct 35.97g - 20 = 15.97g of silver you must add in to alloy down your 20g of 18ct white gold to 35.97g 10ct white gold Hope this helps
20ct gold has 83.3% pure gold in it, 22ct gold has 91.67% pure gold in it 85% gold alloys are not industry standards and just adding 15% platinum to it won't necessarily make it harder. Mixing 75% gold with 15% copper will give you rose gold and rose gold is usually quite hard. If you're looking for a hard white gold I suggest you look up Nickel white gold alloys. Hope this helps.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 wauw thank you for responding to my qeustion!! No i want yellow gold but was wondering if i can get something higher than 18 carat but with the same strength or higher as an 18 carat ring, and since you own a crucible and melting equipment, why does the alloy have to be an industry standard? Is it not more exclusive if you can create jewelry from custom alloys for your clients?
I have some amature questions for you! I dont seem to get this right! My 18ct white gold is just cracking. Tryed with salt peter, no difference. Some advice for md to try to save my almost 20g white gold ?
Sorry for the late reply, I only saw your message now. I would start by cleaning my crucible with salt (NaCl) "*NB* do not use coarse salt it explodes when heated" How you do this is, you heat up the crucible until it's glowing red hot, then use the finely ground salt and sprinkle it liberally over the crucible while you add heat. You'll notice that any impurities in the crucible will collect in the middle, then pour off the slag. You can then add borax to the crucible to reglaze it. Let the crucible cool down before you start remelting your metal. Mill your metal to as thin as possible. It must almost be as thin as ribbon. Chop it into little pieces and place them in the crucible with a little sprinkle of borax and saltpetre in between the layers, it's plus minus 50/50 mix. Smelt it one more time and stir it with an ash rod, then add a sprinkle of 50/50 saltpetre and borax mix before you pour it into the ingot mold. When milling your 18ct you will just need to take it a bit slower in the beginning and anneal it a bit more often just in the beginning stage, you can also pre-forge the bar on each side but you have to anneal it after that process before you mill it. I really hope this Thanks David
Can you tell me what gas you are using in your torch? I’ve been told that using oxy acetylene is not good, I’ve use oxy/propane , but it’s nowhere near the temperature I’m used to
I use oxygen and LPG, it burns really clean but doesn't get as high temperature as acetylene does. So I use a finer torch nozzle to get a sharper flame for higher temperature.
I agree, it will definitely have an undertone and industry standard is to Rhodium plate white gold. However the point of this video is about a white gold alloy and not about platinum. It's a no brainer that platinum is overall better than white gold imo. It's not always easy to sell platinum to a client.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 No brainer huh, here you are making white Gold hahahaha, you wanna come back, we could start over again hahaha. you have to sell wanna be Platinum (white Gold), so you could cater to the public, your doing this for the money, i know and, I Ain't Mad At Cha but, The peoples need to know your work will YELLOWISH after sometime and, thats a no brainer, that is not called QUALITY, still a nice vid though.
Thank you so much for sharing! Im a jewelry student looking to alloy my own white gold without nickle and palladium, thought about platinum but very little literature is available about it, this is amazing!😊
Only a pleasure, I'm glad you found it helpful 👍
So nice
This is an amazing service you offer David. Any professional in the business may benefit by collaborating with you.
Thanks Tate,
That's exactly it, I wanted it to be free knowledge as alloys are normally closely guarded secrets by jeweller's and I want everyone to benefit from this lovely alloy.
What gas are you using to melt the metal? If the percentage of platinum is so low, can you use acetylene?
Yes you can, I use LPG (propane)
How informative. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Is there any way to convert platinum in yellow colour
This is really helpful. Thanks! I'm loving your channel. Keep it up!
Thanks 😊 I quite like doing them. It's a lot of work, that's why I take so long to put out new videos.
Good info. Beautiful alloy
Thanks 😊
This is amazing! Thank you! I want a platinum white gold to use in enameling. Could you also explain what the salt Peter does? I haven’t used it before.
Salt Peter is used to remove impurity from the metal during the smelting process. It's a top tip for removing impurity from any gold alloy that may crack during milling, forging, etc
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 Thank you! That’s an amazing tip! I’m excited to try out this alloy and I’ll order some saltpeter today!
Hi again David, I was able to make the alloy successfully and it enamels beautifully! Thank you so much! I was wondering if you cast this alloy? If you do I was wondering if you have any idea what temperature the metal is and if I could get away with using a regular crucible or if I would need a high temperature crucible? I’m going to get Platinum investment just to be safe but I’m having a hard time finding a platinum crucible to fit my casting machine.
@@Kateleeshort That's great news that the alloy is working well for you.
It's has very similar melting point to a 18ct Pd alloy so you shouldn't need to use a Platinum equipment to cast it. I seem recall the melting point is around 1300°C to 1400°C but I stand to be corrected.
Platinum is around 1700°C to 1768°C and we only use very little in the 18ct alloy so if your alloy is mixed properly you should have any problems casting it.
I hope this helps
Thanks David
Really nice work and good explanation! Would like to se more videos from you!
Thanks 😊, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I will be working on more content in the future,
I do have another video on repairing a super thin bangle ua-cam.com/video/xF3JnmDePTQ/v-deo.html
Do you know if this would work without the copper? Could you then maybe counter the loss of strength through heat-hardening?
Unfortunately not, non-ferrous metals need additives in them to change their properties. Heat hardening will actually make it softer as heating and cooling it off quickly will have an annealing effect.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 Thanks
Great video, I like your approach. I had already tested a gold and platinum mix by mistake and found the color great. Have you tried this 18K alloy for lost wax casting?
Thanks again for sharing!
Personally I haven't yet but it should work just fine. I have a friend that cast with it a few years ago and he said it worked great.
Thank you, I will try that and let you know how I feel. Good luck, see you soon!
Why add the copper and silver besides the copper being hard? Money savings? Could you just do 25 percent platinum ? I am thinking about making a ring with 25 percent palladium and the rest gold. Do you think that would make a bright white? I dont know if ill be able to get the tools for working with platinum so i dont mind spending the extra 5 dollars per gram to make it easier to alloy and work with.
The money saving aspect is not the issue here, copper changes the chrystal structure of the alloy making it harder wearing, the silver in the alloy would combat the intense gray from the palladium. The alloy in this video was originally a palladium alloy, I used it as a white gold alloy in my business for over 15 years with zero complaints from clients.
A palladium and gold only alloy is possible but adding too much palladium will make the alloy a bit unsuitable and it may give you problems with cracking.
Hope this helps
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 Thank you so much. What solder do you use for these alloys
Great video! It's one of the few videos on the topic, so I greatly appreciate it! I'm looking for a pale yellow, almost (champagne look) alloy for a ring, and I was thinking this alloy of white gold un-rhodium plated would work well. Do you agree? Also, in one of your previous comments, you mentioned the 1 part silver is a filler, and the copper adds strength. Can I go with 2 parts copper and no silver to get more strength, and get the desired pale yellow color I'm going for? Thank you!
The Platinum will actually give it a white/gray undertone instead of a yellow undertone the only way to get more of a yellow undertone is to put less Platinum into the alloy, you can add a little more copper if you want but pulling the silver out won't do much for the colour. Silver and gold only in an alloy without the copper usually make a green gold alloy which in my opinion look more like a pale yellow than green but it's very soft. Copper usually makes an alloy stronger / harder
So instead of a 15% Platinum , you can do a 5% and it will look quite pale yellow or you can use Nickel instead of Platinum if it's legal to do so in your country.
Hope this helps.
@David Giardino Vitri Thank you for your input! It sure seems to be a tough balance between color and durability haha. Nickel is legal in my country, however, I would like to avoid it due to the potential allergen risk since I wouldn't be plating the ring. I actually really like the color of the alloy you made in this video, but I will take your word for the undertones since color is harder to tell from video.
If I went 5% platinum and 75% gold, what would you recommend for the other 20%? All copper or a mix or copper and silver?
Thanks again!
What about casting a 25% platinum 75% gold? I've always wondered how that would come out, look, and how hard it is compared to traditional 18k alloying.
You do need a little copper in the alloy to facilitate the hardness just plat and gold might not do it. It's worth experimenting with. My alloy in the video is harder than a 18ct palladium alloy but not as hard as a 18ct Nickel alloy.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 I read somewhere about some new Au-Pt alloy that is very hard, but seeing very little about it elsewhere.
@@vytautasvaicys8745"Sandia Alloy"?
Have you tried 82% Gold and Aluminum for Purple Gold?
No not yet but I'm quite interested in trying out purple alloy in the future,
Hi, I know this video is about white gold but I was wondering if you could give some insight. I've been looking into 22ct gold recently, and was wondering if all the white metals in the industry standard 'mix' could be substituted for platinum. So basically 91.7% gold, 5.5% platinum and 2.8% copper.
If possible would this be a superior alloy in terms of durability, and how do you think the colour of the gold would differ from standard 22ct?
Thanks for your time.
Concerning 22ct I've never had to alloy 22ct white before. However you may have a very soft 22ct if you use platinum and copper you only because the copper is what changes the property’s of the gold to make it harder. You might have to use nickel instead of platinum if you want it to be harder.
Hello! Awesome video, looking forward to trying. What kind of acid do you dip in after? New to this so I’m not familiar, Is it similar to pickling with hot plate? Or just room temp acid and move on to rolling? Thank you!
Hi Kayvan
It's a 10% sulfuric acid pickle and it works better if it's hot. I use a mini slow cooker to heat it.
Thanks David
Awesome,thank you so much for the reply! One more question I have been researching quite a bit if you don’t mind. I was going to make an 18ct 6.6g ring with the formula you provided (5g gold, 1g platinum and .3g of copper and silver). I am stuck on what to solder with, can I just use a very think piece of itself to solder or will this not work? Or can I just get any 18ct white gold solder or make my own with other lower melting point metals (if so any ideas for a good combo for this specific ring?) I was just concerned if the color would be different at the joint! Thank you again :)
-Kayvan
You can use a very thin piece between the soldier joint and fuse it but I just usually buy solder from a refinery or jeweller's tool supply store.
Great! I will give it a go, thanks again!!
Lastly!! Just had a thought, would you rhodium plate this or do you think it would be fine as is?
Do a review on sandia alloy 90% platinum 10% gold
I Know that alloy but it was not really popular in South Africa. It's a really good alloy.
It's a bit softer than a Platinum Ruthenium alloy or a Platinum Copper alloy. The best thing to remember about alloys is, the simpler the alloy, the less problems it will give you and all of the ones mentioned above (including your suggestion) are simpler alloys. 🙂
Hello David. Great video, very informative. I have a question. How feasible is it to make a ring consisting of just Gold and Platinum? Let's say the ratios are 50 : 50 Au-Pt or maybe even 37.5 : 62.5 Au-Pt. Will it be too soft? Too hard? Thanks.
You can but it will just be quite soft.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 Thanks for the response.
Can you explain why you used 1g of copper and 1 g of silver?
Yes, copper makes the metal slightly harder and silver is a filler. It's a 5 part alloy = 3 parts plat 1 part copper 1 part silver.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 do you sell cuban link chains in this alloy? And what do you think about the same alloy but in palladium? Thanks again
@@REALSLIK Yes, you can use it for Cuban link chains and Yes you can substitute the Pt out for Pd.
I use both Pd or Pt in the same 5 part alloys, its just that Pt is cheaper than Pd at the moment so that's why I did the video to show people that it can be done.
David how about for 10k white gold ?
So it's the weight of gold you made in 18ct x the purity out of 1000 parts ÷ by the purity you want in the end.
Eg 15g of fine gold makes 20g of 18ct in the video.
So 20g of 18ct will make 35.97g of 10ct.
Formula
20g of 18ct x 750 ÷ 417 = 35.97g of 14ct
35.97g - 20 = 15.97g of silver you must add in to alloy down your 20g of 18ct white gold to 35.97g 10ct white gold
Hope this helps
But an alloy of 85% gold and 15% platinum is it more hard and more yellow than 75% gold and 25% copper?
20ct gold has 83.3% pure gold in it,
22ct gold has 91.67% pure gold in it
85% gold alloys are not industry standards and just adding 15% platinum to it won't necessarily make it harder.
Mixing 75% gold with 15% copper will give you rose gold and rose gold is usually quite hard.
If you're looking for a hard white gold I suggest you look up Nickel white gold alloys.
Hope this helps.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 wauw thank you for responding to my qeustion!! No i want yellow gold but was wondering if i can get something higher than 18 carat but with the same strength or higher as an 18 carat ring, and since you own a crucible and melting equipment, why does the alloy have to be an industry standard? Is it not more exclusive if you can create jewelry from custom alloys for your clients?
I have some amature questions for you! I dont seem to get this right! My 18ct white gold is just cracking. Tryed with salt peter, no difference. Some advice for md to try to save my almost 20g white gold ?
Sorry for the late reply, I only saw your message now. I would start by cleaning my crucible with salt (NaCl) "*NB* do not use coarse salt it explodes when heated"
How you do this is, you heat up the crucible until it's glowing red hot, then use the finely ground salt and sprinkle it liberally over the crucible while you add heat. You'll notice that any impurities in the crucible will collect in the middle, then pour off the slag. You can then add borax to the crucible to reglaze it.
Let the crucible cool down before you start remelting your metal.
Mill your metal to as thin as possible. It must almost be as thin as ribbon. Chop it into little pieces and place them in the crucible with a little sprinkle of borax and saltpetre in between the layers, it's plus minus 50/50 mix.
Smelt it one more time and stir it with an ash rod, then add a sprinkle of 50/50 saltpetre and borax mix before you pour it into the ingot mold.
When milling your 18ct you will just need to take it a bit slower in the beginning and anneal it a bit more often just in the beginning stage, you can also pre-forge the bar on each side but you have to anneal it after that process before you mill it.
I really hope this
Thanks David
Can you tell me what gas you are using in your torch? I’ve been told that using oxy acetylene is not good, I’ve use oxy/propane , but it’s nowhere near the temperature I’m used to
I use oxygen and LPG, it burns really clean but doesn't get as high temperature as acetylene does. So I use a finer torch nozzle to get a sharper flame for higher temperature.
9:18 - All reservations removed.
What do you use to solder?
Currently I use a solder from a local refinery because my solder alloy contains cadmium.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 So just 18ct white gold solder?
Yes, 18ct white gold solder works well 👍
Can it be made in 14k?
Yes, have a look at the end of the video. The formulas for 14ct, 10ct and 9ct are at 9:38 minutes.
in time, all white gold turns yellow, time always tell, time will snitch on white gold, just a matter of time. Platinum 950 for me, all day, everyday.
I agree, it will definitely have an undertone and industry standard is to Rhodium plate white gold. However the point of this video is about a white gold alloy and not about platinum. It's a no brainer that platinum is overall better than white gold imo. It's not always easy to sell platinum to a client.
@@davidgiardinovitri3182 No brainer huh, here you are making white Gold hahahaha, you wanna come back, we could start over again hahaha.
you have to sell wanna be Platinum (white Gold), so you could cater to the public, your doing this for the money, i know and, I Ain't Mad At Cha but, The peoples need to know your work will YELLOWISH after sometime and, thats a no brainer, that is not called QUALITY, still a nice vid though.