The Crusher works *ok* on Ullr, it's a nice lategame addition. It's far from core though, so there was no need to go more in-depth. Ullr has seen a lot of pro play recently, so if an item would be overly strong, it would have caught on. However Funballer, Xeno, MingyuSeo, FleuryQ and m0eX all played Ullr once or more and never used it. The only one who picked it up once was Repikas - and that was when playing full CDR ability JUNGLE Ullr, so not as adc. Even then he only picked it up on second last slot, AFTER Jotunn's and Hydra's for CDR.
Pros spend weeks theory crafting builds and play skirmishes frequently to see where certain builds will work and what situations will it be needed. If you honestly believe that just because you can stomp a poseidon adc in casuals will make it the best possible item for a certain character you are mistaken. Where are your graphs? Stats? Have you tested it while comparing other items? When did you build it? Who were you facing? How tanky/sustainy were the enemy team? All of these factors influence the effectiveness of the item. Summary of Duke's video: Is it a bad item? Not at all. Can some characters make the item useful? Yes. Are there better items for late game? Yes. How often is it seen in the pro scene? Not very much. Who knows if it has any hidden potential, but as of right now it's not the best item.
Removed some the extremely dumb comments in this chains and banned Tyler, go be cancer somewhere else (you only fucking recently said how much you value a pro's opinion and now you bash their knowledge because it's convenient lmao). Only left QuantumC's comment because he was actually reasonable. The reason I pinned this comment is because the claim came up quite often in the comment section, I responded in this particular case and this way, others could see it. I've given you the damage values in the build, I've talked about the DPS etc, that's all covered. The aspect that was missing was the pro side of things. If you think pros don't do math/have coaches doing math for them, you're wrong. They also run extensive tests on items and when one shows to be vastly superior to others, they will pick it. As such, adding pro builds as an argument is perfectly reasonable. If you were to build The Crusher early in your build, for example in place of Ichaival, you would not only fall behind in price curve, but also get destroyed in a direct trade. It's a late slot situational with a purpose, no more and no less. You have all the values necessary to check that in the video.
If I can just add something, I still think it's a mistake to refer only on pro builds. Best example was Shield of Regrowth being SO undervalued for a long time until the very end of season 3. I'm not saying it's the case here tho
Lemme check.. Apollo calls for help and starts backing the moment I engage, only calling it AFTER I engaged. Cabrakan calls "ok" as in he's gonna help but then suddenly decides red buff is more important. Ymir only survives by popping meditation, at which point my leap was already activated. But sure, "I" played that poorly 🤔🤔🤔 Nevermind the fact that my teammates played straight up awful all game with the best of them being an Isis whose player account hadn't even reached level 20 yet 🤔
duke wasnt this yesterdays morning eu match i was the sobek the team was full of bots except me and thanatos thanatos was a master and a diamond previous season and i walked right in front of loki to your jungle and loki didnt call vff i feel ya duke
If I recall correctly, they said it was a bridge item meant for ability based hunters (not every pen item is meant to be used by assassins despite what people may think). Personally I don't enjoy relying on crit RNG BS procs to get my damage going, prefering power/pen builds myself (miss my all-time favorite build "Unicorn", where this item could have had a place if you didn't need the antihealing). Something along the lines of Bluestone, Boots (probably Ninja for better late game dps), Transcendence, Crusher, Qins, Brawlers/Jotunns/Asi, Titans could be nice IMO although not necessarily in that order. I don't think it's a best in slot item as of now by any means, and it sure could make use of some buffs or tweaks but I do like the idea behind it.
Crusher was my way to carry Bronzie retards killing everyone and splitpushing with Loki :s And with 4.3 removal of pet backdoors, I swear they should had just called it Season 4: We wanna remove Loki but we don`t have the balls lul
As far as loki split push that's easy like I've taken a t2 and two phoenixs and started on a 3rd as skadi before the enemy team had time to respond we won that game purely on split push we lost every single team fight massively
but it isn't strong on those gods maybe if u use them in the jungle where u sometimes need more power but as a solo laner I never se a reason besides like a last pic item to ever pick it up and even then if u need more damage on a solo laner then their are many better options and/or cheaper options like we titans bane get picked up as a last slot item for solo laners if they are ahead and want more damage, dimi did this on swk and it worked out
What do you think about it on Camazotz? Say your build was more towards Boots, Heart Seeker, Joutons, Spirit Robe, Titans Bane, Crusher? In the past, I would have gone Shield of Regrowth for the third item, but since the nerf, would you consider it viable to remove it from the build and replace it with the crusher now? Jump into a fight with your 3, use your 1 & 2, place an auto attack somewhere in there, and that should help bring your 3 back up by the time your full combo is done- assuming you're auto attacking correctly. Just an theoretical scenario, I haven't tested it in a conquest game. Beat stick would also be a good alternative here as well, just depends on the amount of healing on the other team I guess.
I love all your videos of analysis. So well thought out; a bit over my head because I'm slow and can't process too many things at once. Which is why I'm causual4lyfe lol but you allow me to feel like i can get the game a little bit better :D thanks for all your help!
How do you feel about it on susano? I like building it because his kit works well with auto attack resets and the passive to crusher procs quite often for him, but that's just me I build it on him all the time.
I love their idea behind Crusher this season and think it's got plenty of potential with ability-based gods that weave basics into their attacks (such as Awilix) but I agree that it should have cdr instead of attack speed. I feel like they couldn't decide whether or not they wanted it to remain a hunter item. They also probably don't want to have two items with % cdr in the _physical penetration tree_.
What would you say about Crusher on Erlang? He doesn't make any decent use out of the other pen items thanks to defensive items filling in the gap of cool down and anti-heal. he also wont have much power to make good use of heart seeker either. I currently build Ninja Tabi Glad Shield/breastplate Ichi- Could I replace this with crusher and still be effective? Pestilence Situational Item Mantle/ Spirt robe
I actually find the most use for this on gods like susanoo and serqet, since their main burst is a chain of abilities that are also their escapes, and since both normally gun for a basic attack at the end for either serqets passive or a hydras proc now that it only works once for sus 1 to finish off the enemy, reasoning being sers taunt being normally the first ability used followed by the dash and sus 2 followed by his tp after the chain w capped CDR both only have to wait a second or two to get their cc back and some survivability by buying time as their escape should be off CD immediately after 5th slot after max CDR in normal modes and last pick in conquest is a good place to slap it for a slim amount of extra escape potential and at that point I've built some kinda defense or the situation doesn't actually need more than spirit robe so it works
it works on thanatos since you wanna max his cdr early and the attack speed helps him clear waves, also with thanatos you can scythe and follow up with basics to get your scythe up again if you are sticking to a target for a bit
I have it included in my Herc build as an optional item, but I don't remember if I ever got the Crusher in a game so far (then again, this build is still fairly new and I didn't play that many games with Herc lately)
Ironically enough, shortly after watching this, I see Snoopy picking The Crusher on Skadi (against Noble) and it worked wonders, was able to reset abilities twice per fight, putting things a bit more in perspective as far as this item is concerned.
gwyn shut him down early never get caught and have wards everywhere especially on his speed if you can invade and take that from him do it but make sure he isn't going for it. It's all about having an advantage every fight late game he becomes and ult bot if he falls behind make sure to have two meds bc when you bait his ult and focus him he is dead instantly.
gwyn Also if you can, build a defense item something like void shield or valor. This will substantially cut down his burst potential and mathematically, most Gods should be able to out trade him, unless he too has a defense item, then you're gonna need to avoid engaging till late game in most cases.
I like it on a very damage-focused Guan Yu. Mana conservation be damned, it's great fun to spam your abilities almost non-stop in a fight, supplemented even further by the cdr from his heal and Genji's Guard.
for my neith build i use crush like 5th item, for the extra pen and attack speed. (i also include crit within the build as well) so that might be what helps. the 1sec cd/ 5 sec on god hit is nice in a team fight when neith ult is down because it pulls it back up faster
Sasuke Uchiha i can help. first odin have high base damage but he use his defence for doing so. so you need to start whit defence. is useless to 90 more damage becouse you go to joutus as your second item, if the enemy just stun and kill you after your jump. the most important thing for odin is cdr and some defence. so here is a decent build. warrior breastplate of valor joutus wrath buldwark of hope frostbound hammer titans bane. i like the frost bound hammer on any warrior, but warrior have to adapt. counterbuild is a must. also warrior in general are more counterpick then any other. you dont pick odin for the birdbomb combo, but becouse he is a counter for lot of god like ra and silvanus.
I feel like it's fine on hunters when you're going for a pen build and you're not too worried about boxing. swap it out in the build instead of fatalis. bit more pen, bit less atk speed, a good bit of power on it. it's good for objectives and towers
M00NxM00N first of. heartseeker have 10 pen. so way all of you keep on saying no pen? second. flat pen is relevant end game. most of the god start whit 10 and go to 60 phys def at lvl 20. if you pick titans bane you penetrate 20 of thet defence. then 15 from crusher or beatstick, 10 from joutus and 10 from heartseeker full pen on squishy. goon pen for tank. its not irrelevant end game. is about target
M00NxM00N first of, im platinum. and now lets start. first: way i dont like quins on ability base assassin. let us start whit your build. except for the last quins i like it, but there are some thing you forget. first hydras do not amply quins. second, whit rat, end game, you cant use tour full combo or relay on basic during a team fight. yes you cancel your skill and thets increase your damage, but in thet scenario you cant cancell all 4 skill. even more now thet they nerf rat dart (... ) cdr. usually you ulti, basic, 3 ( for garatnite cc and chain cc), basic, then 2 for the garantede damage and the 16 extra pen, basic and get out. unless you have alredy been cc by someone right after your ulti. now, whit this build you do good damage, but thet 72 damage from quins is not true damage. whit thet pen you have you dont do 72 damage, but something like 40 on squishy. so yeah, good you did 120 extra damage. for exemple, if you had pick something like stonecutting sword ( and im not a fan of thet on rat anyway. ) you could have done more damage thet whit quins at the same price, reduced the enemy defence for your team too, get extra movement speed, and being more defensive. but for me the actual meta is a tiny different, and thets bring me to the next point. now you want cheap build tnx to the rituals. so less and less (even pro player) are going to the helm start or the ichi. becouse you need the gold for the ritual end game, so you cant simply pick an item to sell late game. this is way i dont like quins on rat. 2700gold when you would have better and earlier time whit a cheaper beatstick. or something like thet. thet being said, cheap build are the new black. this is way hunter go for power pen build depite crit being so strong. then you have to consider lot of other thing. .... this is taking longer then i expect and i have thing to do... il continue leater
So what about Tyr? I think it works good on him because its quite easy on get the basics of in between combos and i think what you want up most of all is the assault stance fearless. I tend to max CDR with Shield of Regrowth and either Jotuns or Breastplate of Valor.
I'd find it interesting if you went in depth into this item's potential on hunters. I've built it on ability based hunters a few times, but never as a core item. I feel like Anhur would benefit from the item. My idea for a build would be warrior boots, trans, asi, Titans bane, Qins, then crusher. Obviously as a power/pen build. Maybe switch the order of the last 3 items a bit. Thoughts?
josh Mahaffy titans crusher before qins if you're getting kills and doing decent dmg on tankier targets. qins if your dmg seems lacking. and btw beatstick better than stacked trans.
josh Mahaffy I've been testing something similar. I've been trying out warriors, Ichaival, asi, wins, titans, and then beat stick. Then later on selling ichaival for the crusher. I've been liking that build.
The item is actually really good on Kali and Arachne, they always trying to stick on u and that passive procs every 5 sec, so u can proc it 2 times in a single use of ur combos easily. I think it´s a great item for just 2300 gold, it gives Kali a pretty decent early-mid, and Arachne just destroys with it early on. It´s cheap for such good stats. It´s also pretty good on things like Osiris or Erlang Shen tho.
Crusher is actually great on Serqet, since you auto them after all of your main abilities are on cooldown. The passive can only proc every 5s so it's not like hydras where you want to auto after every ability
The crusher is the best item for warriors,since they lose damage drastically late the attack speed gives them needed dps,and the cooldown helps for more abilities on teamfights,also the power and pen helps in overall damage.
I always thought it to be a rather solid item. Of course, like you said though, there are better and it's hard to fit, but even still. Even more and less so now. I would build it usually as a situational item, but even then, only rarely. I have found use for it though. Again, not often. A very odd item. Either way, The Crusher is still better than Runeforged Hammer! Also, I find it curious that you covered assassins more than hunters. That's generally where I build the item. But why is it more useful on assassins than hunters? Or is that not the right way to say it?
Troy Low I use it often, and I would say yes. Definitely for Guan and Tyr, and Chaac often boxes with autos and benefits from a full second of axe cooldown. Just make sure you're ahead!
Do people just forget that Camazotz exists? I have him rank X and I build the crusher in my newest build for him since Season 4 came out. it works well because I use my 1 and 2, then jump on them, basic attack them because of attack speed, get the cooldowns, and start working on the next god, since I just killed the first, and am able to hop back in asap because of that 1 second cooldown.
Gary Oak actually, it's not, he doesn't need chase or escape so the passive on it is ass, I already have 30% cooldowns, so don't need 20% more, the health is meh, and it gives no damage, pen, or attack speed. I have him Diamond. I know what I am doing with him. I build Renewal already, so I don't need 2 shitty health items. 1 makes it good.
I disagree with crusher not being good on arachne, she's an AA/ability god, so the passive works rather well on her, pen and attack speed is good for her Qins procs, which qins has the best synergy with her passive. Another god its good on that I dont believe you mentioned was Neith. Good ability damage, pen for her abilities, and attack speed because shes still a hunter. You dont usually get CDR on her either so thats fine. O-bow would be better late game more than likely but ninja, asi, crusher and titans should make sure your basics and your qins hurt. And yes, I do personally see this better on gods you'd prefer to build qins sais on, who also like to use their abilities. I do agree its decent on nem but you usually dont get max cdr on her since she's more than a walking ult.
I use crusher on thana a lot, mostly when i am ahead and the enemy team lacks healing. My normal build would be Warrior Tabi, Shield of Regrowth, Hydras, Heartseeker (those two can be switched) and crusher.
If you would prefer Heartseeker on most of the gods over Crusher, what about Arachne? Heartseeker is useless on her because it doesn't proc on her 1 or her spiders, so it'll only proc on her ult(which most people use to escape).
what about basic attack focused warriors like Amaterasu, Erlang, and Ravana. i usually grab the crusher 4th or 5th on ravana once i have my jotuns and Breastplate
Ive found the crusher very useful on my Standard Ability Hunters Mid builds its been core for me has been rather usefully on skadi and CHiron attack speed pen and some damage plus cheap :)
I like crusher on ability ADC, like medusa ullr and neith. With build like this WarriorsTabi, Trans, Fatalis, Crusher, Quins, Titans. You have decent ammount of power/flat pen and attackspeed
I've used Crusher on Kali for the attack speed and penetration for a last item. Haven't been disappointed unless somebody has a better suggestion. Attack speed boots, heart seeker, fatalis, qins, titan's bane, crusher. Could also go stone cutting sword but I prefer the flat pen and attack speed.
Attack speed boots, Ichaival, Fatalis, Qins, Titans Bane, Situational item (Winged blade, Magis blessing). This is for me though i dont think heart seeker works well because of her attack chain and the Kali is not ability based at all so crusher is kinda useless on her.
ill use it on pen / power chiron boots , jotuhn, crusher, quins or into more atk speed find it works decently considering to use his 2 you have to hit enemy gods last seaon i would use heartseeker but they removed it from ranged
why not a basic attack focused warrior though it may be a good way to keep abilities in rotation for quicker ultimate 's abilities on gods such as bellona Osiris erlang shen or amaterasu which have kits that revolve around their basic attacks and abilities that can crowd control enemies that would give them a better boxing potential against hunters, assassins, and some mages it could be useful for the basic attack focused gods that have strong cc capable abilities
How come you almost never mention Neith when you talk about ability hunters? Isn't she like a trademark ability hunter? Neith can make great use of this item btw. A build you could use this item in with Neith is if you are building her physical mage. Where you only throw like 1 or 2 basics and most of your damage comes directly from abilities. I used to do this a lot in season 3 with Neith, my basics would hit for like 400 damage late game, but I would close to no attack speed so my abilities is what was doing the most damage.
No idea why. Plus she was used as the example by hirez on who could use this item. I've actually stopped using my obow build on her because of it. Now my staple build for her is Trans, Ninja, Crusher, Asi, Titans, Qins. 2.0ish attack speed at lvl 20. A bunch of power. Bunch of pen. And a way to fit CDR into her build. Did you know that if a fight last for 6 secs, (and obviously if you hit an auto at 1 sec and 6sec) you get 2 secs off your cooldowns? No? Wouldn't blame you since the video doesn't factor that in. Is this item for everyone? No. Nor should it be. Neither was original crusher despite the fact that it was the cheapest in that part of the tree and had 20pen. Its an AA god item mostly who do rely on their abilities a bit but don't usually go too much into CDR items. I thought myself that it would be good on Awilix. I soon discovered that it didn't feel right. On Neith though.. pretty good since it is playing on her strengths as a god with hard hitting abilities and the fact that she is a hunter. I also tried it on Nem. Ninja Tabi into Crusher. Works like a charm since I never liked going into Jotunns since it offered so little for her. Then I get my other CDR item via Defense. You build on the pen and attack speed then getting qins. Bellona is fine too when you want to be more damage focused. But then I have to make the choice between SCS and Crusher which I don't want to do. I feel like people sleep on this item based solely on the fact that not EVERY god can use it. I do miss the old passive, but that was mostly because of some Apollo cheese builds.
I feel like using an ability based assassin to argue against an AA item just makes this whole video a moot point.. It's like explaining why tampons are useless while using a guy as example. Crusher is very effective on Arachne tbh, would rather build it than jotuns or brawlers any day of the week. If you want anti heal build a witch blade.
Based on the way that Hun Batz is played in regards to his passive, wouldn't Crusher be good on him? You jump in, basic attack, use another ability, basic attack, and then repeat. That way, you proc his passive and Crusher.
swap the attack speed with 10% cool down reduction and you will be picking it up on so many characters. now you can have max cdr with hydra's and jotunns.
wrong, crusher is amazing on serqet because you use your abilities then auto attack so you get 1 second off of your 1, 2, and 4. she makes the BEST use of this item because it synergizes perfectly with how you stack your poisions.
The crusher works so well on ullr and you just brushed over it.
The Crusher works *ok* on Ullr, it's a nice lategame addition. It's far from core though, so there was no need to go more in-depth. Ullr has seen a lot of pro play recently, so if an item would be overly strong, it would have caught on. However Funballer, Xeno, MingyuSeo, FleuryQ and m0eX all played Ullr once or more and never used it. The only one who picked it up once was Repikas - and that was when playing full CDR ability JUNGLE Ullr, so not as adc. Even then he only picked it up on second last slot, AFTER Jotunn's and Hydra's for CDR.
Pros spend weeks theory crafting builds and play skirmishes frequently to see where certain builds will work and what situations will it be needed. If you honestly believe that just because you can stomp a poseidon adc in casuals will make it the best possible item for a certain character you are mistaken. Where are your graphs? Stats? Have you tested it while comparing other items? When did you build it? Who were you facing? How tanky/sustainy were the enemy team? All of these factors influence the effectiveness of the item. Summary of Duke's video: Is it a bad item? Not at all. Can some characters make the item useful? Yes. Are there better items for late game? Yes. How often is it seen in the pro scene? Not very much. Who knows if it has any hidden potential, but as of right now it's not the best item.
Removed some the extremely dumb comments in this chains and banned Tyler, go be cancer somewhere else (you only fucking recently said how much you value a pro's opinion and now you bash their knowledge because it's convenient lmao). Only left QuantumC's comment because he was actually reasonable.
The reason I pinned this comment is because the claim came up quite often in the comment section, I responded in this particular case and this way, others could see it. I've given you the damage values in the build, I've talked about the DPS etc, that's all covered. The aspect that was missing was the pro side of things. If you think pros don't do math/have coaches doing math for them, you're wrong. They also run extensive tests on items and when one shows to be vastly superior to others, they will pick it. As such, adding pro builds as an argument is perfectly reasonable.
If you were to build The Crusher early in your build, for example in place of Ichaival, you would not only fall behind in price curve, but also get destroyed in a direct trade. It's a late slot situational with a purpose, no more and no less. You have all the values necessary to check that in the video.
DukeSloth I never said you should build it early though. You are just assuming things now
If I can just add something, I still think it's a mistake to refer only on pro builds. Best example was Shield of Regrowth being SO undervalued for a long time until the very end of season 3.
I'm not saying it's the case here tho
2:30 my god you played that poorly O_o
Lemme check.. Apollo calls for help and starts backing the moment I engage, only calling it AFTER I engaged. Cabrakan calls "ok" as in he's gonna help but then suddenly decides red buff is more important. Ymir only survives by popping meditation, at which point my leap was already activated. But sure, "I" played that poorly 🤔🤔🤔 Nevermind the fact that my teammates played straight up awful all game with the best of them being an Isis whose player account hadn't even reached level 20 yet 🤔
Can't even get a single game without being tilted by disabled teammates? :D
+DukeSloth Hey! That red buff may have saved your life within the minute and a half that shit is active.
duke wasnt this yesterdays morning eu match i was the sobek the team was full of bots except me and thanatos thanatos was a master and a diamond previous season and i walked right in front of loki to your jungle and loki didnt call vff i feel ya duke
BawseMan shoulda ulted anhur jump imo...
If I recall correctly, they said it was a bridge item meant for ability based hunters (not every pen item is meant to be used by assassins despite what people may think). Personally I don't enjoy relying on crit RNG BS procs to get my damage going, prefering power/pen builds myself (miss my all-time favorite build "Unicorn", where this item could have had a place if you didn't need the antihealing). Something along the lines of Bluestone, Boots (probably Ninja for better late game dps), Transcendence, Crusher, Qins, Brawlers/Jotunns/Asi, Titans could be nice IMO although not necessarily in that order. I don't think it's a best in slot item as of now by any means, and it sure could make use of some buffs or tweaks but I do like the idea behind it.
I would rather have it back to what it was
Completely useless? The new crusher is at least being bought in the SPL
No thank you, split pushing never needs to be buffed ever.
It was a completely irrelevant item pre season 4, now it at least has a place
THEOTHERGUYNATION it did have a place it was great if you needed to just split push to win the game
The Crusher is actually an item I build often now. So much better than last season
I prefered the old crusher because in some games you just want to tell towers to fuck off you know?
Same, actually. As much as it was a scummy splitpush item, at least it had a purpose.
Crusher was my way to carry Bronzie retards killing everyone and splitpushing with Loki :s And with 4.3 removal of pet backdoors, I swear they should had just called it Season 4: We wanna remove Loki but we don`t have the balls lul
Iñaki Arias Loki is trash and requires no skill.
I dare you to play with him in a decent elo game
As far as loki split push that's easy like I've taken a t2 and two phoenixs and started on a 3rd as skadi before the enemy team had time to respond we won that game purely on split push we lost every single team fight massively
In my opinion It's damn strong. Love using it with my warriors and assassins!!!!
Name a single warrior that can actually make use of Crusher to the extent that it would be "damn strong".
I use it on AA Warrior like Bellona or Ravana
but it isn't strong on those gods maybe if u use them in the jungle where u sometimes need more power but as a solo laner I never se a reason besides like a last pic item to ever pick it up and even then if u need more damage on a solo laner then their are many better options and/or cheaper options like we titans bane get picked up as a last slot item for solo laners if they are ahead and want more damage, dimi did this on swk and it worked out
exactly im with this guy, i build it on all abilty based hunters and Bellona and Dps/hybrid Assasins
Gonzalo Garcia fun item for ravana or erlang
What do you think about it on Camazotz? Say your build was more towards Boots, Heart Seeker, Joutons, Spirit Robe, Titans Bane, Crusher? In the past, I would have gone Shield of Regrowth for the third item, but since the nerf, would you consider it viable to remove it from the build and replace it with the crusher now?
Jump into a fight with your 3, use your 1 & 2, place an auto attack somewhere in there, and that should help bring your 3 back up by the time your full combo is done- assuming you're auto attacking correctly. Just an theoretical scenario, I haven't tested it in a conquest game.
Beat stick would also be a good alternative here as well, just depends on the amount of healing on the other team I guess.
J Spruce Just because Shield of Regrowth was nerfed does not mean you should remove it. It's crazy with 20% CD-R and makes you a little more tanky.
SoR is still MUCH better than crusher for Cama.
Thank you!
Thx for this video. I learned alot. One question: is it possible to export a HUD configuration? Your HUD looks very good.
Thx
I love all your videos of analysis. So well thought out; a bit over my head because I'm slow and can't process too many things at once. Which is why I'm causual4lyfe lol but you allow me to feel like i can get the game a little bit better :D thanks for all your help!
How do you feel about it on susano? I like building it because his kit works well with auto attack resets and the passive to crusher procs quite often for him, but that's just me I build it on him all the time.
Susano is much better off with actual CDR items imo.
I love their idea behind Crusher this season and think it's got plenty of potential with ability-based gods that weave basics into their attacks (such as Awilix) but I agree that it should have cdr instead of attack speed. I feel like they couldn't decide whether or not they wanted it to remain a hunter item. They also probably don't want to have two items with % cdr in the _physical penetration tree_.
What would you say about Crusher on Erlang? He doesn't make any decent use out of the other pen items thanks to defensive items filling in the gap of cool down and anti-heal. he also wont have much power to make good use of heart seeker either. I currently build
Ninja Tabi
Glad Shield/breastplate
Ichi- Could I replace this with crusher and still be effective?
Pestilence
Situational Item
Mantle/ Spirt robe
Hey I had a quick question: On average, how much power is worth it? How much is too much? I'd like to know for each class.
I actually find the most use for this on gods like susanoo and serqet, since their main burst is a chain of abilities that are also their escapes, and since both normally gun for a basic attack at the end for either serqets passive or a hydras proc now that it only works once for sus 1 to finish off the enemy, reasoning being sers taunt being normally the first ability used followed by the dash and sus 2 followed by his tp
after the chain w capped CDR both only have to wait a second or two to get their cc back and some survivability by buying time as their escape should be off CD immediately after
5th slot after max CDR in normal modes and last pick in conquest is a good place to slap it for a slim amount of extra escape potential and at that point I've built some kinda defense or the situation doesn't actually need more than spirit robe so it works
it works on thanatos since you wanna max his cdr early and the attack speed helps him clear waves, also with thanatos you can scythe and follow up with basics to get your scythe up again if you are sticking to a target for a bit
Any ideas on how to make rage viable, to me it's not even a good situational item.
I have it included in my Herc build as an optional item, but I don't remember if I ever got the Crusher in a game so far (then again, this build is still fairly new and I didn't play that many games with Herc lately)
What about building it on Ratatoskr after his dart nerf?
Can u build crit in kali and what crit can u build if u can
Ironically enough, shortly after watching this, I see Snoopy picking The Crusher on Skadi (against Noble) and it worked wonders, was able to reset abilities twice per fight, putting things a bit more in perspective as far as this item is concerned.
Could you do a video on the S4 starts, efficient jungle routes, stuff like that?
I found it fun to use on Guan, it synergize very well with his passive, and with high CDR, you can spam your ability all the time during teamfight. :D
hey duke i wanna ask you how can i counter thanatos when i'm playing jungler he always fuck me up can you help me plz
gwyn shut him down early never get caught and have wards everywhere especially on his speed if you can invade and take that from him do it but make sure he isn't going for it. It's all about having an advantage every fight late game he becomes and ult bot if he falls behind make sure to have two meds bc when you bait his ult and focus him he is dead instantly.
gwyn Also if you can, build a defense item something like void shield or valor. This will substantially cut down his burst potential and mathematically, most Gods should be able to out trade him, unless he too has a defense item, then you're gonna need to avoid engaging till late game in most cases.
thanks that will work great he's so bad when ahead he's a fucking monster early game
badass1502 hahahahahah i'm gonna start playing nem just to do that i fucking hate him
I like it on a very damage-focused Guan Yu. Mana conservation be damned, it's great fun to spam your abilities almost non-stop in a fight, supplemented even further by the cdr from his heal and Genji's Guard.
What about an abilty oriented (raw power and pen type of build) Neith? I guess it's kinda hard to make it fit into a 6 item cap
for my neith build i use crush like 5th item, for the extra pen and attack speed. (i also include crit within the build as well) so that might be what helps. the 1sec cd/ 5 sec on god hit is nice in a team fight when neith ult is down because it pulls it back up faster
Love your videos man real help. Do you think you can give me tips with an odin build (still fairly new to the game)
Sasuke Uchiha i can help.
first odin have high base damage but he use his defence for doing so. so you need to start whit defence. is useless to 90 more damage becouse you go to joutus as your second item, if the enemy just stun and kill you after your jump.
the most important thing for odin is cdr and some defence. so here is a decent build.
warrior
breastplate of valor
joutus wrath
buldwark of hope
frostbound hammer
titans bane.
i like the frost bound hammer on any warrior, but warrior have to adapt. counterbuild is a must. also warrior in general are more counterpick then any other. you dont pick odin for the birdbomb combo, but becouse he is a counter for lot of god like ra and silvanus.
Why do you have it so you can look up at the sky feels like a penalty to have if you're trying to use ground target abilities.
idk how to explain it.
I feel like it's fine on hunters when you're going for a pen build and you're not too worried about boxing. swap it out in the build instead of fatalis. bit more pen, bit less atk speed, a good bit of power on it. it's good for objectives and towers
1. no damage
2. only procs on gods
3. too situational/inconsistently useful
30 power + 15 pen = no damage :/
Serengeti Grape heartseeker has 25 power without pen and is picked up a lot
M00NxM00N first of. heartseeker have 10 pen. so way all of you keep on saying no pen?
second. flat pen is relevant end game. most of the god start whit 10 and go to 60 phys def at lvl 20. if you pick titans bane you penetrate 20 of thet defence. then 15 from crusher or beatstick, 10 from joutus and 10 from heartseeker full pen on squishy. goon pen for tank.
its not irrelevant end game. is about target
M00NxM00N wait, i was about to do a adult and serious respond to your point explaing my pov, but i cant be serius to someone thet build quins on rat
M00NxM00N first of, im platinum. and now lets start.
first: way i dont like quins on ability base assassin. let us start whit your build. except for the last quins i like it, but there are some thing you forget. first hydras do not amply quins. second, whit rat, end game, you cant use tour full combo or relay on basic during a team fight. yes you cancel your skill and thets increase your damage, but in thet scenario you cant cancell all 4 skill. even more now thet they nerf rat dart (... ) cdr. usually you ulti, basic, 3 ( for garatnite cc and chain cc), basic, then 2 for the garantede damage and the 16 extra pen, basic and get out. unless you have alredy been cc by someone right after your ulti.
now, whit this build you do good damage, but thet 72 damage from quins is not true damage. whit thet pen you have you dont do 72 damage, but something like 40 on squishy. so yeah, good you did 120 extra damage.
for exemple, if you had pick something like stonecutting sword ( and im not a fan of thet on rat anyway. ) you could have done more damage thet whit quins at the same price, reduced the enemy defence for your team too, get extra movement speed, and being more defensive.
but for me the actual meta is a tiny different, and thets bring me to the next point. now you want cheap build tnx to the rituals. so less and less (even pro player) are going to the helm start or the ichi. becouse you need the gold for the ritual end game, so you cant simply pick an item to sell late game. this is way i dont like quins on rat. 2700gold when you would have better and earlier time whit a cheaper beatstick. or something like thet.
thet being said, cheap build are the new black. this is way hunter go for power pen build depite crit being so strong.
then you have to consider lot of other thing.
.... this is taking longer then i expect and i have thing to do... il continue leater
Nice video, Duke think you can make a video of your current top and bottom gods, not a tier list but your personal favorites and ones you hate :P
So what about Tyr? I think it works good on him because its quite easy on get the basics of in between combos and i think what you want up most of all is the assault stance fearless. I tend to max CDR with Shield of Regrowth and either Jotuns or Breastplate of Valor.
I'd find it interesting if you went in depth into this item's potential on hunters. I've built it on ability based hunters a few times, but never as a core item. I feel like Anhur would benefit from the item. My idea for a build would be warrior boots, trans, asi, Titans bane, Qins, then crusher. Obviously as a power/pen build. Maybe switch the order of the last 3 items a bit. Thoughts?
josh Mahaffy titans crusher before qins if you're getting kills and doing decent dmg on tankier targets. qins if your dmg seems lacking. and btw beatstick better than stacked trans.
josh Mahaffy I've been testing something similar. I've been trying out warriors, Ichaival, asi, wins, titans, and then beat stick. Then later on selling ichaival for the crusher. I've been liking that build.
have you seen Barracudda's Skadi videos? He almost always uses the Crusher on her as his last or second to last item
The item is actually really good on Kali and Arachne, they always trying to stick on u and that passive procs every 5 sec, so u can proc it 2 times in a single use of ur combos easily. I think it´s a great item for just 2300 gold, it gives Kali a pretty decent early-mid, and Arachne just destroys with it early on.
It´s cheap for such good stats. It´s also pretty good on things like Osiris or Erlang Shen tho.
i wish you would just say a shortened version or your main point at the start. then expand on why
UA-cam's algorithm works off of view retention. If he just said his point a lot of people would click off.
Crusher is actually great on Serqet, since you auto them after all of your main abilities are on cooldown. The passive can only proc every 5s so it's not like hydras where you want to auto after every ability
The crusher is the best item for warriors,since they lose damage drastically late the attack speed gives them needed dps,and the cooldown helps for more abilities on teamfights,also the power and pen helps in overall damage.
I like it in builds that revolve around Hydra Lament.
Mr.dukesloth im still hoping youll do a new support video i would like to hear your thoughts on season 4 support builds
I feel like it might be useful on Ratatoskr with his cooldown nerf. 1 second might be enough to have that escape in time before you die.
I always thought it to be a rather solid item. Of course, like you said though, there are better and it's hard to fit, but even still. Even more and less so now. I would build it usually as a situational item, but even then, only rarely. I have found use for it though. Again, not often. A very odd item. Either way, The Crusher is still better than Runeforged Hammer!
Also, I find it curious that you covered assassins more than hunters. That's generally where I build the item. But why is it more useful on assassins than hunters? Or is that not the right way to say it?
What about The Crusher on Ne Zha?
Crusher proc on Mercury's 1, you can reduce cool down by poking.
Is the crusher good on Guan Yu, Tyr, Chaac?
Troy Low I use it often, and I would say yes. Definitely for Guan and Tyr, and Chaac often boxes with autos and benefits from a full second of axe cooldown. Just make sure you're ahead!
isn't crusher more viable on hunters?
Do people just forget that Camazotz exists? I have him rank X and I build the crusher in my newest build for him since Season 4 came out. it works well because I use my 1 and 2, then jump on them, basic attack them because of attack speed, get the cooldowns, and start working on the next god, since I just killed the first, and am able to hop back in asap because of that 1 second cooldown.
Gary Oak actually, it's not, he doesn't need chase or escape so the passive on it is ass, I already have 30% cooldowns, so don't need 20% more, the health is meh, and it gives no damage, pen, or attack speed. I have him Diamond. I know what I am doing with him. I build Renewal already, so I don't need 2 shitty health items. 1 makes it good.
I disagree with crusher not being good on arachne, she's an AA/ability god, so the passive works rather well on her, pen and attack speed is good for her Qins procs, which qins has the best synergy with her passive. Another god its good on that I dont believe you mentioned was Neith. Good ability damage, pen for her abilities, and attack speed because shes still a hunter. You dont usually get CDR on her either so thats fine. O-bow would be better late game more than likely but ninja, asi, crusher and titans should make sure your basics and your qins hurt. And yes, I do personally see this better on gods you'd prefer to build qins sais on, who also like to use their abilities. I do agree its decent on nem but you usually dont get max cdr on her since she's more than a walking ult.
I use crusher on thana a lot, mostly when i am ahead and the enemy team lacks healing. My normal build would be Warrior Tabi, Shield of Regrowth, Hydras, Heartseeker (those two can be switched) and crusher.
I use it on Bastet, NeZha because i rarely get more than 3 AAS off. It just works for them. I use it on Chiron too.
I've been seeing this on Amaterasu lately. Not sure if it's good, but has come up in a few of my games.
If you would prefer Heartseeker on most of the gods over Crusher, what about Arachne? Heartseeker is useless on her because it doesn't proc on her 1 or her spiders, so it'll only proc on her ult(which most people use to escape).
what about basic attack focused warriors like Amaterasu, Erlang, and Ravana. i usually grab the crusher 4th or 5th on ravana once i have my jotuns and Breastplate
You can't invest into damage items like that unless you're playing jungle. Even then, there are better options.
What about Osiris? I think crusher was meant for aa warriors like him and Erlang Shen although it's still not perfect
Can you do a Season 4 Tier List?
Happy Birthday then i guess :D
I use this item in my thanatos build
You forget the CDR on the ultimates the crusher provides? 5-10 secs approx is massive.
The crusher,to me, is a must have for my attack speed builds xD
Ive found the crusher very useful on my Standard Ability Hunters Mid builds its been core for me has been rather usefully on skadi and CHiron attack speed pen and some damage plus cheap :)
Why were no hunters mentioned?
Edit: spoke too soon.
Man people are really critical of how you play Duke.
i use it on arachne often. i already build her ful cdr, and then hitting the enemy with 2x the 1 is so amazing :)
I like crusher on ability ADC, like medusa ullr and neith. With build like this WarriorsTabi, Trans, Fatalis, Crusher, Quins, Titans. You have decent ammount of power/flat pen and attackspeed
I've used Crusher on Kali for the attack speed and penetration for a last item. Haven't been disappointed unless somebody has a better suggestion. Attack speed boots, heart seeker, fatalis, qins, titan's bane, crusher. Could also go stone cutting sword but I prefer the flat pen and attack speed.
Attack speed boots, Ichaival, Fatalis, Qins, Titans Bane, Situational item (Winged blade, Magis blessing). This is for me though i dont think heart seeker works well because of her attack chain and the Kali is not ability based at all so crusher is kinda useless on her.
When you used to think that Dukes in game name was Dukesloth but it was actually Blackpage XD and the 124th comment, weee >_
You should make a video of Brawlers vs. Witchblade
for damage and anti heal and which Gods should use each one
James Barnes Witchblade is ass
ill use it on pen / power chiron
boots , jotuhn, crusher, quins or into more atk speed
find it works decently considering to use his 2 you have to hit enemy gods
last seaon i would use heartseeker but they removed it from ranged
I use it on neith is that weird?
we use crusher on the only one god as the core item. it works very well.
I use it every so often on hunters who need that slight bit of CDR but it's never going to be meta if the passive isn't tweaked
Do one on relic dagger it's really underrated
I use this baby on my jungle Tyr. Great stuff, especially with cooldown and Hydra's
I like it very much on Arachne.
why not a basic attack focused warrior though it may be a good way to keep abilities in rotation for quicker ultimate 's abilities on gods such as bellona Osiris erlang shen or amaterasu which have kits that revolve around their basic attacks and abilities that can crowd control enemies that would give them a better boxing potential against hunters, assassins, and some mages it could be useful for the basic attack focused gods that have strong cc capable abilities
Anyone else jump a bit when the Thanatos came out around the corner?
How come you almost never mention Neith when you talk about ability hunters? Isn't she like a trademark ability hunter? Neith can make great use of this item btw. A build you could use this item in with Neith is if you are building her physical mage. Where you only throw like 1 or 2 basics and most of your damage comes directly from abilities. I used to do this a lot in season 3 with Neith, my basics would hit for like 400 damage late game, but I would close to no attack speed so my abilities is what was doing the most damage.
No idea why. Plus she was used as the example by hirez on who could use this item. I've actually stopped using my obow build on her because of it. Now my staple build for her is Trans, Ninja, Crusher, Asi, Titans, Qins. 2.0ish attack speed at lvl 20. A bunch of power. Bunch of pen. And a way to fit CDR into her build. Did you know that if a fight last for 6 secs, (and obviously if you hit an auto at 1 sec and 6sec) you get 2 secs off your cooldowns? No? Wouldn't blame you since the video doesn't factor that in. Is this item for everyone? No. Nor should it be. Neither was original crusher despite the fact that it was the cheapest in that part of the tree and had 20pen. Its an AA god item mostly who do rely on their abilities a bit but don't usually go too much into CDR items.
I thought myself that it would be good on Awilix. I soon discovered that it didn't feel right. On Neith though.. pretty good since it is playing on her strengths as a god with hard hitting abilities and the fact that she is a hunter. I also tried it on Nem. Ninja Tabi into Crusher. Works like a charm since I never liked going into Jotunns since it offered so little for her. Then I get my other CDR item via Defense. You build on the pen and attack speed then getting qins. Bellona is fine too when you want to be more damage focused. But then I have to make the choice between SCS and Crusher which I don't want to do.
I feel like people sleep on this item based solely on the fact that not EVERY god can use it. I do miss the old passive, but that was mostly because of some Apollo cheese builds.
it'a a 5th 6th slot item on every ability based god... i explained that in 5 seconds.. a very very very good item
I love the crusher change why don't people use it for the stats alone
I liked the old crusher passive as well I hope they bring it back somehow tho
I use it with Mercury after getting some crit I go physical power and penetration.
Why did his team surrender?
I feel like using an ability based assassin to argue against an AA item just makes this whole video a moot point.. It's like explaining why tampons are useless while using a guy as example.
Crusher is very effective on Arachne tbh, would rather build it than jotuns or brawlers any day of the week. If you want anti heal build a witch blade.
Crusher isn't bad on Erlang Shen
I like the new crusher.
I fucking love this item
Crusher on loki is just too good, you can activate your 3 then wait 4s and hit the enemy, your 3 will be ready again with full CDR.
Based on the way that Hun Batz is played in regards to his passive, wouldn't Crusher be good on him? You jump in, basic attack, use another ability, basic attack, and then repeat. That way, you proc his passive and Crusher.
SuperDerpin but crusher procs only every 5 seconds, so you don't have to build it when you aa cancel
duke when they changed crusher in the patch notes it literally said its for hunters not assassins
detninjamonkey Lolk and they said that release raijin was an utility mage
yeah they might have said that, but things don't always go the way as hirez wants em to go
Intell yell hirez is broken and needs a patch
i used to build this on erdong but not anymore
the crusher is an amazing item especially on assassins tf
I quite like it on chaac unless the enemy has healers then brawlers all the way
Personally don't understand why they changed it, it was a good item for split pushers. I think they should just made a new item.
swap the attack speed with 10% cool down reduction and you will be picking it up on so many characters. now you can have max cdr with hydra's and jotunns.
wrong, crusher is amazing on serqet because you use your abilities then auto attack so you get 1 second off of your 1, 2, and 4. she makes the BEST use of this item because it synergizes perfectly with how you stack your poisions.
crusher is actually for hunters not assasins ullr and dusa is effective with it early
I use crushed on ratatoskr and it works juuuuuuuust fine
Use it on a neith mid who is playing as a Mage or on an ullr or something
this item is really good on cupid
Not used? I love it on a lot of ability based assassins.