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I'm Still Hoping Aerith Is Still Around Because She's Still Sleepng And Marline's Gonna Play A Pivotal Role In Rebirth PART 3 And I Noticed That There Was A "Dead" Flower In Rebirth So I Think There Were Signs Everywhere That Hinted Aerith's Death Even Cisseni Said:"Had To Get Stabby" AND She Looked At Aerith Too What If Cissnei Was Affected Too Because There's No Way She "Knows" Aerith's Death Was About To Happen Did Marlene Tell Her? The Answer Is YES Because Cloud Is "Sick" Because He Never Met Tifa So I Think Rebirth Is A Contusion Of Crisis Core And OG Zack's Story Is Post Crisis Core And The Ending Of OG FFVII While Cloud's Story Is Actually A Different Matter It's Like Their Living In 2 Different "What If" Scenarios Like For Zack He's "Reliving" Cloud's Memories AND In Rebirth Even Tifa Noticed Cloud As In FUTURE Cloud And Past Cloud Wad There Meeting So What If He "Saved" A Very Wounded Claudia By Taking Her Back To Midgar And This Caused Her To Become Elmyra So The Question Is: When Did Elmyra Meet Aerith? And Was It 5 Years Ago Could You Look Into This @Sector6?
Honestly adding Zach's perspective to balance out and ground both Tifa and Cloud's perspectives against Sephiroth's manipulated memories would elevate the scene greatly. A proper "reunion" of old friends and allies
Seph couldn’t break Cloud with Aerith and Zack around. He needs to cut them both off, convince Cloud they are dead…. and then convince him Tifa is dead as well.
One thing I really want to see, the more I think about it, is Sephiroth having his own Lifestream style event happen. maybe with Genesis being the one trying to help him regain his memories that he has seemingly threw away. would mirror Tifas role in Clouds, both being childhood friends to the other. The big reveal, equal to Clouds big reveal, would be Genesis showing Sephiroth the real Lucrecia and what happened to her, maybe even have her be there, she is still alive to some degree in her cave after all. I feel a event like this would tie in nice with what we are being shown in Ever Crisis and him regaining those memories. Not suggesting redemption arc but maybe something we think would help him but it backfires and makes his anger and hatred even worse.
I'd Like To See Lucrecia Help Sephiroth Restore His Memories Also Cloud Is "Hurting" Because He's Dead Because Tifa Doesn't Know He "Swapped" Clothes With Zack And In The Start Of Rebirth You Can See Zack's Not There But Tifa Notices The Buster Sword On Cloud And Somehow Zack's Not Present I Think Zack Fell Into The OG Timeline And If You Notice The Way Zack's Holding Aerith And When Her Materia Fell It Indicated She's Dead It's Like Zack's Tears Were Flowing From Cloud's Eyes But The Other Aerith We Actually See At The End Is Actually The Aerith From Start Of The Game When Not The Aerith That Was With Cloud And His Party Because She WAS Dead Since The Beginning And Already Activated HOLY Please Do A Theory On Aerith's DOUBLE Death Ocurring TWICE In One Game?
@haileeraestout5567 I think they are going to the original final fantasy 7 game just bring back Cloud remember back. Sephiroth is just to far gone to bring back as a hero again to the original final fantasy 7 game story.
I am convinced that Cloud's whole event in the lifestream is going to be expanded like crazy. I think it is going to play out just like Red's scene with his father. The whole first part of Red's experience played out great, just like the original event in FF7. BUT, just like we saw in Rebirth, things went CRAZY right after that event with Nanatak and his explanation of all this new lore about the Gi and the Black Materia. I think that this is why we saw Tifa's experience in the lifestream, because more is going to be covered during Cloud's experience. They were not going to have time to cover Tifa's personal growth, so they provided her event at Gongaga. I think that Cloud will definitely recover his identity in his own lifestream event, but I also believe that all this multiverse stuff, all the weird "future memories" stuff, and yes GENESIS' activities in that mako sphere, will all be coming to a head right after Cloud's mind is restored. The lifestream event is gonna be the biggest event of the trilogy.
In my case I'm hoping for significant changes to the lifestream sequence. Cloud already remembers Zack and met him again so that entire plot twist is not on the table anymore unless they pull another memory loss card out of thin air and backtrack yet again.
I don't think the Lifestream Scene itself will change in a huge way - it'll still be Tifa leading Cloud back to himself, and if Aerith or Zack are shown at all, it will likely be just as ghostly observers. However, I do think they could add an "opening act" to the Lifestream scene, similar to what they did in Chapter 14 of Rebirth. The devs knew that the scene of Cloud chasing after Aerith in the Sleeping Forest was a significant memory for a lot of fans, so instead of making big changes to it, they added the Dream Date sequence right before it. I think they could do something similar before the Lifestream Scene in Part 3. Since Cloud will be heavily Mako-poisoned and passed out, he could have one more jaunt through a Dreamworld that could involve interactions with Omni-Aerith and Zack. Sephiroth could try to tempt Cloud by essentially saying "Your consciousness can stay in this world where you never have to accept the loss of your friends" but he fights this temptation to go to Tifa and put his mind back together. Also, I'll just add that I think the Lifestream Scene is not the place where Cloud has to accept Aerith's death and we get the missing Forgotten Capital funeral scene. I think he can't say goodbye until after he restores his mind. If that scene happens, it'll be when the party returns to the Forgotten Capital with Bugenhagen and the Key of the Ancients. They'll have to relive Aerith's death there anyway, so that seems like the logical place to do it.
No doubt the Lifestream scene will still be a part of the story, but only bc it's a huge moment in the OG and in Cloud's arc. Thing is, there's bigger stuff going on this time around so scenes like this, like you said, are gonna be altered to either fast track the story or expand on these particular story beats
It would be so cool if during the memory rebuild for the Reactor memory, Jenove actually came alive to fight Cloud. Then Tifa joins in, but still couldn't defeat her. So Omni-Aerith brought Zack in to fight with Cloud and Tifa. This then leads to Zack helping Could rebuilding his memory of their time in Shira, and telling him how they returned to Midgard just before the beginning of FF7 remake.
I think that understanding the potential changes to the lifestream sequence are going to depend on the changes they make to the whirlwind maze sequence which is it's direct precursor. In the OG, Sephiroth convinced Cloud that he was not a real person and that he was constructed by Hojo. Now it seems that Sephiroth is taking this a step further and convincing Cloud (and his friends) that he killed Aerith and that he is a killing machine just like Sephiroth. I also suspect he may be manipulating Tifa's memory as those whispers in the final cutscene are swirling above Tifa's house in the lifestream. If this is indeed a Sephiroth with future memories, then it makes perfect sense that he would be doing this as Sephiroth doesn't want Cloud to get better, so why would he let it happen again ? Thus, I think it's a real possibility that both Cloud and Tifa will be piecing their memories back together. In which case, I think Marlene might be the one who saves them both. Whatever Aerith passed on to her seems to transcend the different worlds and the reason she chose Marlene is because there are no memories between them and therefore, nothing for Sephiroth to tap into.
I’m guessing you’ll get the massive revelation from the OG… and then you’ll get an even bigger revelation: oh you think you know what happened in the original timeline? Well here it is from a different perspective! It won’t be a retcon if done cleverly enough, but will also completely change the core of the story and what it meant all along!
Like it could be revealed that the whispers were there all along, in the OG, you just couldn’t see them, and they were actually interfering with the “true” timeline (Remake/Rebirth) so we finally correcting that “mistake”. I realize this can be a very triggering concept for some. But I’m grabbing popcorn and hoping something like this happens!
My take: It'll be very different this time. The original point of the Lifestream scene in the OG is to definitively answer some of the biggest mysteries of the game. Is Cloud real or a creation? Was he in SOLDIER? Etc. But those aren't mysteries this time around. This time, the primary mysteries have to do with the alternate timelines/worlds we've been seeing. Are those real? Creations of Sephiroth or the Whispers/Planet? Are they just parts of the Lifestream? What's going on with Zack? What about Aerith? Was there a timeline where she actually lived? Has she actually been talking to Cloud from beyond the grave, or is his fractured brain/Jenova manipulation conjuring her? These are the answers I think we'll get this time around, and I think Aerith and Zack will both be involved in the Lifestream scene this time. Tifa will still be there, but now she'll also see Aerith, the same Aerith who Cloud has been seeing the whole time. So this will also be confirmation that Cloud wasn't hallucinating his conversations with Aerith (at least not all of them), she was reaching out from the Lifestream. So now, Tifa will understand that Cloud isn't as crazy as she thought, there were just things happening that she didn't understand. And now she understands the real Cloud better, like she did in the OG. So, basically, it'll still serve the same general purpose as the OG, but not involving the exact details.
I'm getting the idea that in order to see himself save Tifa and beat Sephiroth, Cloud is first going to have to face the deaths of Aerith and Zack, but above all the death of his mother. Since Sephiroth never had a mother figure, I think the big key in controlling Cloud would be making him think he never had one either.
I believe it’s going to be! I think it’s obviously going to be Cloud realizing his accomplishments weren’t really his. Those being Zack’s…. But I think the big one is going to be his realization of what actually happened to Aerith.
I still think a lot of Aeriths perspective and closure will come when we use the key of the ancients in the music box at the forgotten capital otherwise the lifestream sequence will be multiple hours long. I find it hard to tell where Cloud will realise that she's actually dead but I think when we return the key we will get a few scenes from Remake and Rebirth but from the POV of Aerith, the torn sky comes to mind after the second Valkrie fight.
Im sure they will keep the lifestream sequence but I think it will be Zack and Tifa. Having Zack allows them to be expand on not only Nibelheim but what happened afterwards, maybe even before when they first met, I do like the idea of Sepiroth possibly interfering at some point tho as well
In the OG, the lifestream sequence focuses a lot on both Tifa and Cloud proving that Cloud wasn't created by Hojo. Because right before that, Seph tells him that he is and it is actually Tifa suddenly having doubts herself about this that causes Cloud to break, since her memories of him are kind of the only prove he has that Seph's words aren't real. But because Cloud through Jenova has access to Tifa's memories, in the lifestream, they have to find one memory that they remember differently from the start ad proof. Because then that had to be a real memory of Clouf and not one that he got from Tifa. And that memory is the Mt Nibel incident. Because Tifa lost her memory of that incident, Clouf has to remember it himself. And since they already talk about that one, the whole "Tifa thinks Cloud might be a puppet and they have to find something that proves otherwise" can't happen. So I'm convinced they'll change this to: Tifa thinks Cloud killed Aerith and Cloud has to recover his memory of what really happened at the Forgotten Capital to prove (mostly to himself) he didn't. This imo had been set up since Remake. There, Tifa sees Cloud almost kill Johnny and tells him she's scared of him. Then her Arc in Rebirth happens where Cloud suddenly thinks she's an impostor, where he goed as far as almost killing her. Tifa then decides to trust him and "save" him. BECAUSE of the Mt Nibel memory that was so important in the OG. But she then sees him repeat the same line as Seph in Nibelheim, then has to watch as he conpletely loses it in the Temple. The last thing she sees is Cloud pushing her off to chase after Aerith and the black materia while completely in Seph-mode. When they meet again, she tells him to talk to someone if he ever has weird thoughts again, like her not being herself (which caused him to almost kill her). So clearly she is actively worried about that again. And we all know what happens next: Cloud is alone with Aerith and suddenly she's dead in his arms and then Cloud acts like nothing happened. Seriously, if Tifa doesn't at least consider something is wrong their, I'll eat a broom. So yeah. Imo, Tifa at some point of Part 3 will voice her doubts when it comes to Aerith's death. Cloud will have flashbacks to it, see that she indeed died (at least in one timeline) in a flashback of the water burial and will start to believe he did it because of a flashback to him having his sword raised while standing in front of her. Somehow he'll also find out that he's not a soldier 1st class at the same time too to top it off and goes mental boom. Lifestream sequence will then be massively added onto. Cloud will visit his past memories similarly to Tifa in Rebirth, and find out that him and Tifa weren't actually childhood friends like they both believed (there is this scene in Remake where she waves at him that was apparently a fake memory and I'm pretty sure we'll see the correct version of that as Cloud realises that he only became a soldier to finally be noticed.) But since the lifestream is also connected to all those other worlds with Zack, I believe Cloud might also end up there and finally find the "truth" about the multitude of worlds, how they came to be, what Seph's actual plan is and if Aerith is truly dead in all of them or still alive somewhere. It's the perfect "spot" plot-wise to reveal all that and all that'll be left is to defeat Sephiroth (and save Aerith if possible).
Only problem with the Tifa doubting angle is that it was Tifa who also saw two different versions of the altar scene - they slyly panned the camera up to Aerith's wrist so you couldn't see her face (was she awake?). So I always thought maybe it's Tifa that stands up for Cloud after everyone else writes him off and is ready to lock him up. But yes, this game is building a very different "big reveal" and this version of the lifestream scene will be where it happens. It's probably where they answer Zack's question at the end (what the hell is going on?) Because honestly, how did we get back to the bombing mission in the first place?
@dalegleneagles5072 oh yeah, I do agree that scene scene makes her most likely to realise there might be "more going on" than just Aerith dying among the party members. But I do think that doubt will come first. She's also the only one imo who can blame Cloud (apart from himself) because the others don't even know that Cloud distrusted her and tried to kill her in Gongaga. Imo, that whole subplot was way too big to not come up again in some way in Rebirth.
@@fiprosha See for me that element may have already been finalized when Tifa fell into the lifestream/weapon. Almost like the purpose was so he could take a swing at her to knock her off the edge (how else would she have gotten into that situation? Plus I don't think he casts doubt about her after that). Which I guess brings us back to the video's main question of what might change because to me her lifestream sequence effectively put the final nail in the coffin of a 1-to-1 remake of the OG scene because it would be so redundant for the player. I get it though, she does bring it up again in the Sleeping Forest. But the blood/no blood vision is the equivalent of the Zack Stamp bag from Remake this time around. The OG scene's power was the big reveal but all of its elements/reveals are already known so it has to involve more this time or fall incredibly flat.
@@dalegleneagles5072 Not only does she bring it up in the Sleeping Forest again though, she also sees him quote Seph in Nibelheim and is focused on in the Temple when Cloud goes crazy. There, he tries to kill Elena and her trying to stop him isn't really effective, and she has that moment where she looks at her hand for quite a while. Then he just keeps descending into madness and the game put her there to witness it all. I do think that's a natural continuation of the distrust-subplot and I'd feel strange if Tifa wouldn't doubt him in Part 3 after literally everything she's seen. It would make her seem pretty naive honestly. But yeah, I also agree with the rest you said. Which is why I do think that the LSS will focuses on the whole multiverse-schrödinger's-aerith too. Cloud falling into the Lifestream is way too good of an opportunity to get him to visit those other Zack worlds again to not do that.
Great video as always! My take is that the LS sequence is the point when things diverge from the original. I'm in the "trilogy is a sequel" camp, and if we're right, I would expect the sequence to stay true to the original, but at the end, something happens that ties the main events with the meta narrative. Since not much happens (narratively) after the LS sequence in the original, this would make for the perfect place to reveal the ultimate plot twist of the Remake trilogy. What do you think?
The biggest thing I REALLY want to see in Part 3 is Sephiroth finding out the TRUTH about his REAL mother. And I 100% believe that this is the 'BIG SURPRISE' that the devs were talking about. I've been praying like crazy, hoping that we finally find out the truth about Sephiroth's mother, Lucrecia and also about those 'lies' told by Hojo that made Sephiroth lose it in the first place. I also want to see Genesis coming back and possibly helping Sephiroth open his eyes to the truth and telling him what REALLY took place, even if I can't stand Genesis quoting Loveless, {because let's be honest, Sephiroth is on the cuckoo side right now}. Poor Sephiroth. I STILL remember crying my eyes out like a baby in the Nibelheim Manor scene: ua-cam.com/video/sbr7xNSa_5Y/v-deo.html Tyler Hoechlin did a BEAUTIFUL job displaying his character's emotions in that scene in Fall of a Hero and I couldn't help but cry with him! I think the BIGGEST event for me would be my favorite character FINALLY finding out about the truth in Part 3. Lord help me if he dies before that event happens. I'm going to cry a bucketful of tears and crawl in my bed and DO NOTHING.
Great video, but how does Aerith not factor into this? Sephiroth is stronger and more ever-present in this world, but so to is omni-Aerith. I think we may see a 4D chess game between those two, with Tifa being the girl on the ground, so to speak. One thing to bear in mind is that they upscaled Tifa's presence in the last game because they are obsessed with keeping the girls balanced in terms of screentime and importance. I think we will see the same for Aerith, here.
So I don't know how involved in this Aerith will be, beyond maybe facilitating things for the people that are involved in the memories like Zack and Tifa. I think Aerith is going to be very active still in Remake part 3, but I just don't think this is the spot necessarily. Also if I'd suggested Tifa might be removed from the scene in the same video as suggesting Aerith might be added to the scene I think I'd have caused a small riot, lol
@@Sector6UKProbably true. Sad that, whilst Tifa has some amazing fans, she does also have a fair contingent of angry, basement dwellers in her corner. I can't stand these elements of the Shipping wars.
Thank you for pointing this out - if Zack's involved, how the heck isn't Aeirth also involved? Someone pointed out a while back: so you're ok with Sephiroth coming back from the dead in AC, in Remake, etc., but the suggestion that Aerith *might* be alive in another world? Oh no, you're crazy, come on, nothing but copium! Meanwhile, Zack's walking around and these same people are silent.
@dalegleneagles5072 Yea! The other interesting thing is that thanks to On a way to a Smile, we know that Aerith can duplicate herself in the real world, just as Sephiroth can (with Loz etc). So nothing is off the table, really.
If im not mistaken kitase and nomura have said in the past that the lifestream part is their favourite part of the original ff7 so i don't see it changing in any big way its the most important part of og ff7 and the big plot point for both cloud and tifa then after they bang under the highwind......😏 I dont think square would be that stupid to mess it up and change it and as for zack and aerith me personally i dont think cloud is going to see the real versions of them till we get to the final battle at the end of the game with sephiorth in the lifestream.
I think for sure Zack will be there, and maybe Tifa. In the latest interview, Hamaguchi said Zack has "an important role," you add that with what Marlene tells him and he's definitely going to be helping Cloud fix his mind. The reason I'm not sure about T is because Sephiroth tells her that she can't reach him now. And since she's already been in the lifestream, I don't see her going back a second time.
Great analysis these are the same reasonings I had. Not to mention that Cloud already remembers Zack and Zack can definitely reach him no matter what state Cloud is in.
@jesse1381 Yes, I agree. They didn't do all that for nothing, Zack is for sure going to help his best friend get his mind fixed, then Cloud is going to save Aerith. Just as Marlene said.
@@TheDelightfulFlowerLady I also find it pretty hard to believe they'd include all of that Zack and Marlene stuff in Rebirth as well as Marlene receiving visions/memories from Aerith in Remake for absolutely nothing. So I lean towards the side of something significantly different happening. I can't say for sure exactly what but there has to be a point to all of the new plot elements.
@@jesse1381 yup. If they were going to have the same outcome, they would have just been straightforward about it. These changes are all about saving her 🩷
Yooo Tifa fans will s**t their pants over this. I’ve never actually seen the LS sequence but some people think it will change and if you say anything about it changing, Tifa fans will take your head back to their table. They think it’s some kind of romance scene. Like I said I’ve never seen it but I heard it was a scene about Cloud regaining his memories. Tifa fans don’t want Aerith to be a part of it or Zach. But it looks like Aerith and Zach may show up Don’t tell Tifa fans that tho or they’ll have an aneurysm.. 🤫
@ no no no I love Tifa but her fans are angry people. If you say anything about the LS scene changing Tifa fans will come for your head. Im a brand new fan of ff7 I just got into it this year and I’ve been commenting on videos trying to understand the game and Tifa fans are savage my dude.
I will be very sad to lose this scene, but I admit the "twist" of who Cloud really was is already all-but-spoiled. Rebirth has chosen to show Cloud very badly Jenova corrupted, they have introduced Zack already...I feel they have already made it so obvious what the connection is to a casual player. This has dramatic dividends, but it comes at the cost of the twist. I dislike this, but I concede it logical to not do the Lifestream scene. I think it is 50/50 whether to keep it or not.
Except that it’s not all-but-spoiled. For a casual player who doesn’t know the story of the OG and the compilation, it’s not obvious that Cloud adopted Zack’s persona as his own, and even that Zack is actually dead. What a casual player should know from Rebirth at this point is that Zack exists as a character, he knows Cloud and Aerith, and he was in Nibelheim during Sephiroth’s breakdown. That’s all. For those of us who know the story, the references and easter eggs the devs included in this twist are far too obvious. As for the Lifestream sequence, it’s definitely going to happen. Throughout Rebirth, we frequently hear about how the Lifestream is made up of memories and experiences, so it’s practically set in stone that Cloud’s memories will be restored in the Lifestream. That sequence is almost guaranteed to occur. What I think they might add this time is that maybe Aerith will also be there, as a spirit in the Lifestream, and she will unveil the truth about the Lifestream and the "worlds" where Zack, Biggs, etc are alive.
@ I obviously disagree that it hasn’t been spoiled. I think it’s pretty easy for an individual to recognize that Zack and Cloud are swapped in some sense, and it’s pretty easy to reason that perhaps Cloud was the other guy there and is imagining things.
@ also, if you have no humility, please don’t engage in conversation. Saying “it’s definitely going to happen” is ridiculous. None of us can say that anything is “definitely” going to happen. You’re not the writer, you have no idea what insane twists the writer might choose.
I agree with you. Personally I want changes if not scrap it altogether. Cloud will perhaps wake up in another world once he turns into a vegetable in the main world and then he'll get cured by Zack there and then in turn Cloud goes to save Aerith. Something along those lines more or less I don't know but it doesn't make a ton of sense to follow OG at this point without serious backtracking.
It's totally spoiled. It's called Crisis Core Reunion (among plenty of other things). The big reveal wasn't that Cloud wasn't a Solider - that was becoming established before the OG scene. The big reveal was that it didn't matter, that he WAS there, and he ultimately stopped Sephiroth at the reactor (this was the open question the Kalm scene ended with and the LS scene answered). What's not spoiled this time? The truth about everything we're seeing and where it's happening in the Remake project.
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I'm Still Hoping Aerith Is Still Around Because She's Still Sleepng And Marline's
Gonna Play A Pivotal Role In Rebirth
PART 3 And I Noticed That There Was
A "Dead" Flower In Rebirth So I Think
There Were Signs Everywhere That Hinted
Aerith's Death Even Cisseni Said:"Had To Get Stabby" AND She Looked At Aerith Too
What If Cissnei Was Affected Too Because
There's No Way She "Knows" Aerith's Death
Was About To Happen Did Marlene Tell Her? The Answer Is YES Because Cloud
Is "Sick" Because He Never Met Tifa So I Think Rebirth Is A Contusion Of Crisis Core And OG Zack's Story Is Post Crisis Core
And The Ending Of OG FFVII While Cloud's Story Is Actually A Different Matter It's Like
Their Living In 2 Different "What If" Scenarios Like For Zack He's "Reliving"
Cloud's Memories AND In Rebirth Even
Tifa Noticed Cloud As In FUTURE Cloud
And Past Cloud Wad There Meeting So
What If He "Saved" A Very Wounded Claudia By Taking Her Back To Midgar
And This Caused Her To Become Elmyra
So The Question Is: When Did Elmyra Meet Aerith? And Was It 5 Years Ago Could You
Look Into This @Sector6?
Honestly adding Zach's perspective to balance out and ground both Tifa and Cloud's perspectives against Sephiroth's manipulated memories would elevate the scene greatly. A proper "reunion" of old friends and allies
I think it's a given, since Cloud will probably still think that Aerith's alive. So we'll probably get Aerith's proper burial during that scene.
Seph couldn’t break Cloud with Aerith and Zack around. He needs to cut them both off, convince Cloud they are dead…. and then convince him Tifa is dead as well.
One thing I really want to see, the more I think about it, is Sephiroth having his own Lifestream style event happen.
maybe with Genesis being the one trying to help him regain his memories that he has seemingly threw away. would mirror Tifas role in Clouds, both being childhood friends to the other.
The big reveal, equal to Clouds big reveal, would be Genesis showing Sephiroth the real Lucrecia and what happened to her, maybe even have her be there, she is still alive to some degree in her cave after all. I feel a event like this would tie in nice with what we are being shown in Ever Crisis and him regaining those memories.
Not suggesting redemption arc but maybe something we think would help him but it backfires and makes his anger and hatred even worse.
I can see how Zack Flair and Tifa can help Cloud to remember the event with some of aerith help. If sephiroth don't try to stop Tifa helping cloud.
I'd Like To See Lucrecia Help Sephiroth Restore His Memories Also Cloud Is
"Hurting" Because He's Dead Because
Tifa Doesn't Know He "Swapped" Clothes
With Zack And In The Start Of Rebirth You Can See Zack's Not There But Tifa Notices
The Buster Sword On Cloud And Somehow
Zack's Not Present I Think Zack Fell Into
The OG Timeline And If You Notice The
Way Zack's Holding Aerith And When Her Materia Fell It Indicated She's Dead It's Like Zack's Tears Were Flowing From Cloud's Eyes But The Other Aerith We
Actually See At The End Is Actually The Aerith From Start Of The Game When
Not The Aerith That Was With Cloud
And His Party Because She WAS Dead
Since The Beginning And Already Activated
HOLY Please Do A Theory On Aerith's DOUBLE Death Ocurring TWICE In One
Game?
@haileeraestout5567 I think they are going to the original final fantasy 7 game just bring back Cloud remember back. Sephiroth is just to far gone to bring back as a hero again to the original final fantasy 7 game story.
I am convinced that Cloud's whole event in the lifestream is going to be expanded like crazy. I think it is going to play out just like Red's scene with his father. The whole first part of Red's experience played out great, just like the original event in FF7. BUT, just like we saw in Rebirth, things went CRAZY right after that event with Nanatak and his explanation of all this new lore about the Gi and the Black Materia. I think that this is why we saw Tifa's experience in the lifestream, because more is going to be covered during Cloud's experience. They were not going to have time to cover Tifa's personal growth, so they provided her event at Gongaga.
I think that Cloud will definitely recover his identity in his own lifestream event, but I also believe that all this multiverse stuff, all the weird "future memories" stuff, and yes GENESIS' activities in that mako sphere, will all be coming to a head right after Cloud's mind is restored. The lifestream event is gonna be the biggest event of the trilogy.
In my case I'm hoping for significant changes to the lifestream sequence. Cloud already remembers Zack and met him again so that entire plot twist is not on the table anymore unless they pull another memory loss card out of thin air and backtrack yet again.
I don't think the Lifestream Scene itself will change in a huge way - it'll still be Tifa leading Cloud back to himself, and if Aerith or Zack are shown at all, it will likely be just as ghostly observers.
However, I do think they could add an "opening act" to the Lifestream scene, similar to what they did in Chapter 14 of Rebirth.
The devs knew that the scene of Cloud chasing after Aerith in the Sleeping Forest was a significant memory for a lot of fans, so instead of making big changes to it, they added the Dream Date sequence right before it.
I think they could do something similar before the Lifestream Scene in Part 3. Since Cloud will be heavily Mako-poisoned and passed out, he could have one more jaunt through a Dreamworld that could involve interactions with Omni-Aerith and Zack. Sephiroth could try to tempt Cloud by essentially saying "Your consciousness can stay in this world where you never have to accept the loss of your friends" but he fights this temptation to go to Tifa and put his mind back together.
Also, I'll just add that I think the Lifestream Scene is not the place where Cloud has to accept Aerith's death and we get the missing Forgotten Capital funeral scene. I think he can't say goodbye until after he restores his mind. If that scene happens, it'll be when the party returns to the Forgotten Capital with Bugenhagen and the Key of the Ancients. They'll have to relive Aerith's death there anyway, so that seems like the logical place to do it.
So far we know nothing about Cloud's father. This could be a great expansion if the livestream sequence as well. Deeply locked memories
No doubt the Lifestream scene will still be a part of the story, but only bc it's a huge moment in the OG and in Cloud's arc. Thing is, there's bigger stuff going on this time around so scenes like this, like you said, are gonna be altered to either fast track the story or expand on these particular story beats
It would be so cool if during the memory rebuild for the Reactor memory, Jenove actually came alive to fight Cloud. Then Tifa joins in, but still couldn't defeat her. So Omni-Aerith brought Zack in to fight with Cloud and Tifa. This then leads to Zack helping Could rebuilding his memory of their time in Shira, and telling him how they returned to Midgard just before the beginning of FF7 remake.
I think that understanding the potential changes to the lifestream sequence are going to depend on the changes they make to the whirlwind maze sequence which is it's direct precursor. In the OG, Sephiroth convinced Cloud that he was not a real person and that he was constructed by Hojo. Now it seems that Sephiroth is taking this a step further and convincing Cloud (and his friends) that he killed Aerith and that he is a killing machine just like Sephiroth.
I also suspect he may be manipulating Tifa's memory as those whispers in the final cutscene are swirling above Tifa's house in the lifestream. If this is indeed a Sephiroth with future memories, then it makes perfect sense that he would be doing this as Sephiroth doesn't want Cloud to get better, so why would he let it happen again ? Thus, I think it's a real possibility that both Cloud and Tifa will be piecing their memories back together.
In which case, I think Marlene might be the one who saves them both. Whatever Aerith passed on to her seems to transcend the different worlds and the reason she chose Marlene is because there are no memories between them and therefore, nothing for Sephiroth to tap into.
The lifestream is when cloud and tifa waltz like squall and rinoa
I’m guessing you’ll get the massive revelation from the OG… and then you’ll get an even bigger revelation: oh you think you know what happened in the original timeline? Well here it is from a different perspective! It won’t be a retcon if done cleverly enough, but will also completely change the core of the story and what it meant all along!
Like it could be revealed that the whispers were there all along, in the OG, you just couldn’t see them, and they were actually interfering with the “true” timeline (Remake/Rebirth) so we finally correcting that “mistake”. I realize this can be a very triggering concept for some. But I’m grabbing popcorn and hoping something like this happens!
My take: It'll be very different this time. The original point of the Lifestream scene in the OG is to definitively answer some of the biggest mysteries of the game. Is Cloud real or a creation? Was he in SOLDIER? Etc. But those aren't mysteries this time around. This time, the primary mysteries have to do with the alternate timelines/worlds we've been seeing. Are those real? Creations of Sephiroth or the Whispers/Planet? Are they just parts of the Lifestream? What's going on with Zack? What about Aerith? Was there a timeline where she actually lived? Has she actually been talking to Cloud from beyond the grave, or is his fractured brain/Jenova manipulation conjuring her?
These are the answers I think we'll get this time around, and I think Aerith and Zack will both be involved in the Lifestream scene this time. Tifa will still be there, but now she'll also see Aerith, the same Aerith who Cloud has been seeing the whole time. So this will also be confirmation that Cloud wasn't hallucinating his conversations with Aerith (at least not all of them), she was reaching out from the Lifestream. So now, Tifa will understand that Cloud isn't as crazy as she thought, there were just things happening that she didn't understand. And now she understands the real Cloud better, like she did in the OG. So, basically, it'll still serve the same general purpose as the OG, but not involving the exact details.
I'm getting the idea that in order to see himself save Tifa and beat Sephiroth, Cloud is first going to have to face the deaths of Aerith and Zack, but above all the death of his mother. Since Sephiroth never had a mother figure, I think the big key in controlling Cloud would be making him think he never had one either.
I believe it’s going to be! I think it’s obviously going to be Cloud realizing his accomplishments weren’t really his. Those being Zack’s….
But I think the big one is going to be his realization of what actually happened to Aerith.
I still think a lot of Aeriths perspective and closure will come when we use the key of the ancients in the music box at the forgotten capital otherwise the lifestream sequence will be multiple hours long.
I find it hard to tell where Cloud will realise that she's actually dead but I think when we return the key we will get a few scenes from Remake and Rebirth but from the POV of Aerith, the torn sky comes to mind after the second Valkrie fight.
Im sure they will keep the lifestream sequence but I think it will be Zack and Tifa. Having Zack allows them to be expand on not only Nibelheim but what happened afterwards, maybe even before when they first met, I do like the idea of Sepiroth possibly interfering at some point tho as well
Tifa brings Cloud back on the trail all the time.
In the OG, the lifestream sequence focuses a lot on both Tifa and Cloud proving that Cloud wasn't created by Hojo. Because right before that, Seph tells him that he is and it is actually Tifa suddenly having doubts herself about this that causes Cloud to break, since her memories of him are kind of the only prove he has that Seph's words aren't real.
But because Cloud through Jenova has access to Tifa's memories, in the lifestream, they have to find one memory that they remember differently from the start ad proof. Because then that had to be a real memory of Clouf and not one that he got from Tifa. And that memory is the Mt Nibel incident. Because Tifa lost her memory of that incident, Clouf has to remember it himself.
And since they already talk about that one, the whole "Tifa thinks Cloud might be a puppet and they have to find something that proves otherwise" can't happen.
So I'm convinced they'll change this to: Tifa thinks Cloud killed Aerith and Cloud has to recover his memory of what really happened at the Forgotten Capital to prove (mostly to himself) he didn't.
This imo had been set up since Remake. There, Tifa sees Cloud almost kill Johnny and tells him she's scared of him. Then her Arc in Rebirth happens where Cloud suddenly thinks she's an impostor, where he goed as far as almost killing her. Tifa then decides to trust him and "save" him. BECAUSE of the Mt Nibel memory that was so important in the OG. But she then sees him repeat the same line as Seph in Nibelheim, then has to watch as he conpletely loses it in the Temple. The last thing she sees is Cloud pushing her off to chase after Aerith and the black materia while completely in Seph-mode. When they meet again, she tells him to talk to someone if he ever has weird thoughts again, like her not being herself (which caused him to almost kill her). So clearly she is actively worried about that again. And we all know what happens next: Cloud is alone with Aerith and suddenly she's dead in his arms and then Cloud acts like nothing happened.
Seriously, if Tifa doesn't at least consider something is wrong their, I'll eat a broom.
So yeah. Imo, Tifa at some point of Part 3 will voice her doubts when it comes to Aerith's death. Cloud will have flashbacks to it, see that she indeed died (at least in one timeline) in a flashback of the water burial and will start to believe he did it because of a flashback to him having his sword raised while standing in front of her. Somehow he'll also find out that he's not a soldier 1st class at the same time too to top it off and goes mental boom.
Lifestream sequence will then be massively added onto. Cloud will visit his past memories similarly to Tifa in Rebirth, and find out that him and Tifa weren't actually childhood friends like they both believed (there is this scene in Remake where she waves at him that was apparently a fake memory and I'm pretty sure we'll see the correct version of that as Cloud realises that he only became a soldier to finally be noticed.)
But since the lifestream is also connected to all those other worlds with Zack, I believe Cloud might also end up there and finally find the "truth" about the multitude of worlds, how they came to be, what Seph's actual plan is and if Aerith is truly dead in all of them or still alive somewhere. It's the perfect "spot" plot-wise to reveal all that and all that'll be left is to defeat Sephiroth (and save Aerith if possible).
Only problem with the Tifa doubting angle is that it was Tifa who also saw two different versions of the altar scene - they slyly panned the camera up to Aerith's wrist so you couldn't see her face (was she awake?). So I always thought maybe it's Tifa that stands up for Cloud after everyone else writes him off and is ready to lock him up.
But yes, this game is building a very different "big reveal" and this version of the lifestream scene will be where it happens. It's probably where they answer Zack's question at the end (what the hell is going on?) Because honestly, how did we get back to the bombing mission in the first place?
@dalegleneagles5072 oh yeah, I do agree that scene scene makes her most likely to realise there might be "more going on" than just Aerith dying among the party members.
But I do think that doubt will come first. She's also the only one imo who can blame Cloud (apart from himself) because the others don't even know that Cloud distrusted her and tried to kill her in Gongaga.
Imo, that whole subplot was way too big to not come up again in some way in Rebirth.
@@fiprosha See for me that element may have already been finalized when Tifa fell into the lifestream/weapon. Almost like the purpose was so he could take a swing at her to knock her off the edge (how else would she have gotten into that situation? Plus I don't think he casts doubt about her after that). Which I guess brings us back to the video's main question of what might change because to me her lifestream sequence effectively put the final nail in the coffin of a 1-to-1 remake of the OG scene because it would be so redundant for the player. I get it though, she does bring it up again in the Sleeping Forest. But the blood/no blood vision is the equivalent of the Zack Stamp bag from Remake this time around. The OG scene's power was the big reveal but all of its elements/reveals are already known so it has to involve more this time or fall incredibly flat.
@@dalegleneagles5072 Not only does she bring it up in the Sleeping Forest again though, she also sees him quote Seph in Nibelheim and is focused on in the Temple when Cloud goes crazy. There, he tries to kill Elena and her trying to stop him isn't really effective, and she has that moment where she looks at her hand for quite a while. Then he just keeps descending into madness and the game put her there to witness it all. I do think that's a natural continuation of the distrust-subplot and I'd feel strange if Tifa wouldn't doubt him in Part 3 after literally everything she's seen. It would make her seem pretty naive honestly.
But yeah, I also agree with the rest you said. Which is why I do think that the LSS will focuses on the whole multiverse-schrödinger's-aerith too. Cloud falling into the Lifestream is way too good of an opportunity to get him to visit those other Zack worlds again to not do that.
I doubt it. Aerith is dead and you cannot change Nojima's originality.
Great video as always!
My take is that the LS sequence is the point when things diverge from the original.
I'm in the "trilogy is a sequel" camp, and if we're right, I would expect the sequence to stay true to the original, but at the end, something happens that ties the main events with the meta narrative. Since not much happens (narratively) after the LS sequence in the original, this would make for the perfect place to reveal the ultimate plot twist of the Remake trilogy.
What do you think?
Great vid ace.
The biggest thing I REALLY want to see in Part 3 is Sephiroth finding out the TRUTH about his REAL mother. And I 100% believe that this is the 'BIG SURPRISE' that the devs were talking about. I've been praying like crazy, hoping that we finally find out the truth about Sephiroth's mother, Lucrecia and also about those 'lies' told by Hojo that made Sephiroth lose it in the first place. I also want to see Genesis coming back and possibly helping Sephiroth open his eyes to the truth and telling him what REALLY took place, even if I can't stand Genesis quoting Loveless, {because let's be honest, Sephiroth is on the cuckoo side right now}. Poor Sephiroth. I STILL remember crying my eyes out like a baby in the Nibelheim Manor scene: ua-cam.com/video/sbr7xNSa_5Y/v-deo.html
Tyler Hoechlin did a BEAUTIFUL job displaying his character's emotions in that scene in Fall of a Hero and I couldn't help but cry with him! I think the BIGGEST event for me would be my favorite character FINALLY finding out about the truth in Part 3. Lord help me if he dies before that event happens. I'm going to cry a bucketful of tears and crawl in my bed and DO NOTHING.
I'm sure I'll be fine with whatever they do. We'll always have the OG
Forever and ever and ever!
Love these speculations
Great video, but how does Aerith not factor into this? Sephiroth is stronger and more ever-present in this world, but so to is omni-Aerith. I think we may see a 4D chess game between those two, with Tifa being the girl on the ground, so to speak.
One thing to bear in mind is that they upscaled Tifa's presence in the last game because they are obsessed with keeping the girls balanced in terms of screentime and importance. I think we will see the same for Aerith, here.
So I don't know how involved in this Aerith will be, beyond maybe facilitating things for the people that are involved in the memories like Zack and Tifa.
I think Aerith is going to be very active still in Remake part 3, but I just don't think this is the spot necessarily.
Also if I'd suggested Tifa might be removed from the scene in the same video as suggesting Aerith might be added to the scene I think I'd have caused a small riot, lol
@@Sector6UKProbably true. Sad that, whilst Tifa has some amazing fans, she does also have a fair contingent of angry, basement dwellers in her corner. I can't stand these elements of the Shipping wars.
Thank you for pointing this out - if Zack's involved, how the heck isn't Aeirth also involved? Someone pointed out a while back: so you're ok with Sephiroth coming back from the dead in AC, in Remake, etc., but the suggestion that Aerith *might* be alive in another world? Oh no, you're crazy, come on, nothing but copium! Meanwhile, Zack's walking around and these same people are silent.
@dalegleneagles5072 Yea! The other interesting thing is that thanks to On a way to a Smile, we know that Aerith can duplicate herself in the real world, just as Sephiroth can (with Loz etc). So nothing is off the table, really.
if they're gonna change any scenes in rebirth they should start with aerith's "death", what a shitshow
If im not mistaken kitase and nomura have said in the past that the lifestream part is their favourite part of the original ff7 so i don't see it changing in any big way its the most important part of og ff7 and the big plot point for both cloud and tifa then after they bang under the highwind......😏
I dont think square would be that stupid to mess it up and change it and as for zack and aerith me personally i dont think cloud is going to see the real versions of them till we get to the final battle at the end of the game with sephiorth in the lifestream.
I think for sure Zack will be there, and maybe Tifa. In the latest interview, Hamaguchi said Zack has "an important role," you add that with what Marlene tells him and he's definitely going to be helping Cloud fix his mind. The reason I'm not sure about T is because Sephiroth tells her that she can't reach him now. And since she's already been in the lifestream, I don't see her going back a second time.
Great analysis these are the same reasonings I had. Not to mention that Cloud already remembers Zack and Zack can definitely reach him no matter what state Cloud is in.
@jesse1381 Yes, I agree. They didn't do all that for nothing, Zack is for sure going to help his best friend get his mind fixed, then Cloud is going to save Aerith. Just as Marlene said.
@@TheDelightfulFlowerLady I also find it pretty hard to believe they'd include all of that Zack and Marlene stuff in Rebirth as well as Marlene receiving visions/memories from Aerith in Remake for absolutely nothing. So I lean towards the side of something significantly different happening. I can't say for sure exactly what but there has to be a point to all of the new plot elements.
@@jesse1381 yup. If they were going to have the same outcome, they would have just been straightforward about it. These changes are all about saving her 🩷
Completely agree. Aerith will play a prominent role in this next game.@@TheDelightfulFlowerLady
Yooo Tifa fans will s**t their pants over this. I’ve never actually seen the LS sequence but some people think it will change and if you say anything about it changing, Tifa fans will take your head back to their table.
They think it’s some kind of romance scene. Like I said I’ve never seen it but I heard it was a scene about Cloud regaining his memories. Tifa fans don’t want Aerith to be a part of it or Zach. But it looks like Aerith and Zach may show up
Don’t tell Tifa fans that tho or they’ll have an aneurysm.. 🤫
Why are you hating Tifa?
@ no no no I love Tifa but her fans are angry people. If you say anything about the LS scene changing Tifa fans will come for your head. Im a brand new fan of ff7 I just got into it this year and I’ve been commenting on videos trying to understand the game and Tifa fans are savage my dude.
@@Uhoh_itsAshley My apologies for that misunderstanding.
I will be very sad to lose this scene, but I admit the "twist" of who Cloud really was is already all-but-spoiled. Rebirth has chosen to show Cloud very badly Jenova corrupted, they have introduced Zack already...I feel they have already made it so obvious what the connection is to a casual player. This has dramatic dividends, but it comes at the cost of the twist. I dislike this, but I concede it logical to not do the Lifestream scene. I think it is 50/50 whether to keep it or not.
Except that it’s not all-but-spoiled.
For a casual player who doesn’t know the story of the OG and the compilation, it’s not obvious that Cloud adopted Zack’s persona as his own, and even that Zack is actually dead. What a casual player should know from Rebirth at this point is that Zack exists as a character, he knows Cloud and Aerith, and he was in Nibelheim during Sephiroth’s breakdown. That’s all.
For those of us who know the story, the references and easter eggs the devs included in this twist are far too obvious.
As for the Lifestream sequence, it’s definitely going to happen. Throughout Rebirth, we frequently hear about how the Lifestream is made up of memories and experiences, so it’s practically set in stone that Cloud’s memories will be restored in the Lifestream. That sequence is almost guaranteed to occur.
What I think they might add this time is that maybe Aerith will also be there, as a spirit in the Lifestream, and she will unveil the truth about the Lifestream and the "worlds" where Zack, Biggs, etc are alive.
@ I obviously disagree that it hasn’t been spoiled. I think it’s pretty easy for an individual to recognize that Zack and Cloud are swapped in some sense, and it’s pretty easy to reason that perhaps Cloud was the other guy there and is imagining things.
@ also, if you have no humility, please don’t engage in conversation. Saying “it’s definitely going to happen” is ridiculous. None of us can say that anything is “definitely” going to happen. You’re not the writer, you have no idea what insane twists the writer might choose.
I agree with you. Personally I want changes if not scrap it altogether. Cloud will perhaps wake up in another world once he turns into a vegetable in the main world and then he'll get cured by Zack there and then in turn Cloud goes to save Aerith. Something along those lines more or less I don't know but it doesn't make a ton of sense to follow OG at this point without serious backtracking.
It's totally spoiled. It's called Crisis Core Reunion (among plenty of other things). The big reveal wasn't that Cloud wasn't a Solider - that was becoming established before the OG scene. The big reveal was that it didn't matter, that he WAS there, and he ultimately stopped Sephiroth at the reactor (this was the open question the Kalm scene ended with and the LS scene answered). What's not spoiled this time? The truth about everything we're seeing and where it's happening in the Remake project.
Just please god, keep the extended universe stuff to a minimum. Genesis is terrible.