@Truth Is In Nature - I realized when I was 15 that if everyone who was trying to better the world stopped, and began working on bettering themselves, in that moment we would have world peace. .. 30+ years later and I am only slowly beginning to see just how many people seek, and require to engage others, to judge and correct, or judge and vilify, or judge and belittle. The self righteousness is so ingrained, so foundational to the id and personality, that really intelligent people can't see it in themselves. The topic, whatever it may be, is taken for granted, so when questioned they answer, 'What are you talking about? Like you would do it differently.', or, 'Your idea is just crazy, you are bitter, or a troublemaker,' etc. etc. lol. imo it's ridiculous proportions, like everyone I meet. They will laugh at you, recruit others to support them, belittle you, discredit you, dismiss you, reaffirm themselves to themselves and others, all before considering the information for a second, and without offering a single conversational point, argument or refutation, except, of course, 'No, I don't think so.'
@eddie money which part of the lack of info are you talking about in your largely ad hominem comment? Have you done a video about the subject, or written a book so we can escape theorizing about the video's informational deficiencies? Otherwise, perhaps you didn't understand the conversation?
@eddie money You're the one having problems with understanding. You also seem to have a problem with outlining your ideas (if you have any). Calling people brain dead is hardly anything other but a playground insult - probably about your age, I imagine. If you care to expand on your original ad hominem statement, please feel free - otherwise, everyone might think you a massive pointless exhalation of gas.
"Closed cooling chain" was brilliant. Makes me think that everyone lives within their survival chain. Which is house-work-store. And for vacation we get to leave it for a few days and experience someone elses survival chain.
@@BM-is5ei exactly. And I don’t think you would use it in English. He does this with a lot of terms actually. In fact he is like a literal translator. I think that’s why lots of people don’t understand what he is saying
@@BM-is5ei that is absolutely true. It’s part of cultural differences. Same thing with American and British or even Aussie English. Sometimes words have a different meaning. It’s difficult to learn if you don’t live in the country
I can't express how grateful I am that there are people like Bach and Lex participating in the online sphere, and talking about these important topics. The world needs these conversations.
Bat Fink yes one of the laws of thermodynamics I get that. But to say the first cell never died is like saying the first man never died. Sounds a bit murky.
so basically humans discovering oil was like a teenager discovering red bull. For a while it made things awesome, but eventually their teeth rotted out and they got really really fat then died of related consequences.
Hoping for technological solutions to societal problems is like trying to run away from your own shadow. I like this guest way more than others that have been technology evangelicals, he's refreshingly honest about the problem and his contribution to it. No app or fancy rocket will fix our own mess when everything we create is imbued with our inherent faults. That's like raising your children with your own messed up values and then expecting them to fix everything later on.
- @Bastian - Your response . . . open to interpretation . One . . . negative . . . perspective is that ' ya are encouraging D E N I A L . That type of severance . -- O R -- Maybe ' ya mean a more meditative temporary severance from what one perceives as chaotic anxieties . Awoomm . Maybe ' ya. mean one should plunge . . . . . . deeply // inwardly . Turn off the lights . Delve into one ' s dark // inner - self . - Whatever ' ya mean to say . . . I am here and now thinking of that flawed geographical " " solution " " that they warn against at A A meetings : " " Be careful . Know that No matter where you go . . . there you are . " " - Attempting to run from oneself . . . N O T - Recommended - -- S m i l e s . -
I love how happy and *GIGGLY* this guy sometimes gets when he talks about the end of civilization. This guy would be on my list of dudes who wouldnt mind ending humans. lmao
@The House that Jack Built I think maybe thats what forces our species to innovate . To create, to explore , to discover. Yeah. Earth would have run out of food decades ago without modern farming and genetic seed manipulation and computing power and electricity and new tractors. Shit you never even think of. So yeah were now "running out of space" but not really. and thats also maybe why we should invest more on going to mars. lol
Who speaks this way? He's apparently sui generis . "Government is an agent that imposes an offset on payout metrics to make your Nash Equilibrium compatible with the common good." I love this guy.
@Nob the Knave In Germany it's really common to use academic language to explain something if you have an academic background and talk about academic related issues, I guess that the guest just wanted to state his opinion in a factual right way
@Nob the Knave But, ironically one cannot attain the vocabulary without having read many books. For him these words are easy to utilize for his purposes. They convey certain nuances that are important to him. Jazz musicians use their deep comprehension of music to play melodies that make unindoctrinated feel confused, like a language they just can't comprehend. Same concept.
"Governments impose a system of penalties and rewards on individuals to ensure that the good of the one yields, as much as possible, the good of the many." If you can't say it normally, then you're putting on airs and are simply being eliter-than-thou; in other words: a snob. And on the issue, of the needs of the many versus the needs of the few, Uhura (whose name means freedom) had a few things to say here to Tuvok and others on Vulcan [and yes, the actual performers returned to play their roles] ... ua-cam.com/video/kFqAME7dx58/v-deo.html
@@RockBrentwood tbh for me as someone who is from a economics & business background nash equilibrium makes much more sense for the conversation... dude why shouldn't you use the correct terms if you want to explain something? If someone asks me about some macroeconomic related issue I won't answer the person with highschool related economics but rather with substance right? And if there are questions about words dude just ask :D nothing with snobbity here you guys are overanalyzing
@@RockBrentwood the minority seem to want destruction of the very living organism that keeps us alive, but yet to say that for the majority of the mass would appear to reject such suffering, in order to satisfy the minority? With the understanding of the purposeful manipulation on the conscious.
@@cbongiova Yeah, I didn't want to jump the gun before I finished watching the whole clip, but now that I'm finished I've gotta say... If you think this guy is an idiot, then you are in idiot. He explained pretty much everything he said very clearly. My guess is that you are the one who has global warming derangement syndrome and your brain basically shut down the second he said two words that you didn't agree. I'll also mention that discussion of that topic covered like 5% of the total conversation.
It's pretty clear to me that AI won't bring the downfall of our civilization. It can't save it either. No matter how good your AI is, it can't prevent mobs of idiots from hurting both themselves and others.
We cannot stop rising sea level possibly three meters or ten foot over the next hundred years but we could stop climate change. Planting trees then cutting them down and using the wood for building or furniture would keep carbon locked away and renewables and fusion will provide us with all the energy we need. Evolution is ruthless and opportunistic but it is not intelligent. ua-cam.com/video/b34al8YmQSA/v-deo.html
Software does not write itself nor can it. Intelligence requires self awareness ( conciousness) A machine cannot be concious even if it seems to be,any more than a sculpture can be real. Pinnochio was never a real boy.
@@johndelong5574 One exaflop is equivalent to the human brain and we are building exascale computers now so we will soon know if they can become self aware.
My grandfather, who is 95 and didn’t have electricity while he was growing up, says the only people who want to go back to the old days are the people who didn’t live in them.
Cooling/heating to a livable condition is done by Earthships (I moved into one in Taos, NM) - the mass of the Earth always keeps us at very comfortable livable temperatures. Underground homes are similar & caves...
@GWT123 No matter the political color, both parties have done a lot of good and bad. It's not about politics, it's about energy. Energy is what keeps the show running. Now that peak oil is past (2018), we're going downhill and nothing can reverse the trend. You should read J.A Tainter's book... You will realize soon that the fate of mankind doesn't depend of the puppets that think they are in charge
One of the dumbest people alive pretending to be smart by memorizing weird phrasing of common observations and rapidly spouting them out( Because they’re memorized) making other dumb people think this guy is smart. SMH
@Phoenix We need to vote in people that are not taking corporate money I don't think it matters anymore if they are Republican or Democrat. A powerful third party would be good to break this duopoly.
@@bacomiric if you understand the meaning of greed, you must realize every living thing on earth is greedy. It's kind of vacuous to point it out. My real question is.. why does that matter to you?
@@bacomiric right on, I do really like this quote. In kind, I will leave my own.. Despite the philosophy of which you subscribe, you will find it quite necessary to fulfill your desires. It is no more possible to deny your desires than to predict your next thought.
So glad Lex stopped and asked about words. So many people are incapable of acknowledging they don't know what something means, or misheard, and simply nod their heads even though they don't understand what they heard. Props to Lex.
Joscha's idea of plants perhaps being more intelligent than us, just on a different time-line is intriguing. Makes me think of Tom Bombadil's land in Lord of the Rings. Maybe Tolkien had something there.
I am Canadian and we have Social Democracy and after travelling about the world for a number of years I am always so glad to come home. I have found that Social Democracy is the best....why can't we all be a Social Democracy?
Do you ask seriously? You need for this specific set of circumstances: 1) high human capital (not only education, but I'm afraid also genetics) 2) high social cohesion (at best single predominant ethnic group) While indeed nice, I'm not so convinced about its long term feasibility as it start to to attract outsiders who don't share local values, don't contribute much and are drain on local resources. So I'm afraid that there is only some window of opportunity and it's slowly ending.
@@bradhaaf4749 You know, when twin studies show that for adult in modern society IQ is 80% genetic, I don't see how one can say that it does not matter. Additionally, research is also clear cut - diversity is reducing trust and social cohesion.
13:01 Yes and no. When it's so dry and hot that your sweat just immediately evaporates, you don't get to cool down much and then you're looking at heat stroke given enough time. Welcome to places like Death Valley, Bullhead City, Las Vegas and Phoenix. Dry is better than really humid, but that only goes so far. Lots of people have died after going out in the desert in mid-summer when their vehicle broke down. But I do agree with the premise that places like Las Vegas would have very few people were it not for air conditioning.
Lex ' s mind does N O T function with the Grease -- Lightning -- Speed that Joscha ' s does . That is N O T a jab // stab at L ex . Joscha is simply . . . soooooo . . . A M A Z I N G .
Great conversation. I love the idea that the planet and plants are on a different time scale and that their only purpose is to get back to carbon rich, and it needed to create humans to get the carbon back out again! So much deeper, but amazingly interesting.
Brian Cox once said the damage we are doing t earth will make it inhabitable for humans. But the planet itself has seen much harsher times and will be able to recover
From this mass extinction no life will recover. Co extinction will annihilate all planetary life due to environmental change. Nature, Strona and Bradshaw, 2018
@@lowieapitz8575 dont you worry, nature will overtake all. Simply because, nature is all there is. It will just return to its equilibrium without our constant interfering.
7:44 haha, love that notion that humans are Gaia's ploy to put carbon back into the atmosphere. Reminds me of that George Carlin bit where he talks about how our main goal on the planet may be to create plastic so the planet can claim it for itself. Great video. Joscha is one smart cookie.
@@Mixima101 it makes sense after you realise that we live in a universe with 3 spatial dimensions (3d space) and 1 temporal dimension (1d time) but all together they create this weird hybrid 4d object called spacetime which can essentially be thought of as a single uniform thing the same way that multiple threads woven together create a single uniform fabric.
Joscha Bach has a very insightful, intelligent view. He mentions our problems AND mentions common solutions... definitely going to check out some more of Joscha Bach's videos. I would love to hear a q&a with Bach and Elon. 🤔🤓
@rvidal0001 "Conservatives?" This talk solves nothing. Come on man, I'm a libertarian, you're shining a negative bitter light on these views. I'd like to think of them as our views, you've made that clear. I'm not trying to be contrary or negative, but, I can tell you for a 100 percent fact that neither side really understands the science and nuance of said science regarding climate change. At least the populace doesn't, generally, because it has became devisive. They take examples from wildly different schools of thought that compound different data, and expound upon that data regarding different theories without having a model to exhibit actual "proof." Don't be a victim of irony in your rhetoric, the consequences of the "fishes" and the ocean are the most glaring example of the negative impacts of climate change, especially in the rivers connected to it. Since the ocean is the biggest natural resource the Earth has, does common sense not denote we pay attention to it more than anything else? Studies actually show, overfishing is actually killing more of them than pollution. Though 80 percent of statistics are wrong. Are either of us intelligent enough or resourceful to discern the truth? I agree we should take responsibility for the negative impact of climate change, because we should responsibly conduct ourselves in a manner that respects our environment. Like more prevalent recycling bins, (as seen in Japan) restrictions on landfills, replacing industries dependent on lumber that need not be (I.e., paper.) leading to forest conservation, sewage management, clean water, and especially clean energy. Unfortunately, we will get no where by pointing fingers, at "conservatives," or "liberals," if you care, keep your agenda out of it and make a positive example. Your rhetoric divides people. I'm not attacking you, I'm telling you this data has been sullied due to the propaganda of both sides. The sad fact is, I don't think clashing agendas and "higher taxes," are the main cause of people caring... Except for a few millionaire/billionaires exploiting the environment for financial gain. Yes, those people are evil bastards. But, compare *their* damage to the damages caused by those suffering from poverty. It is an exponential difference. To fix the environment we have to give the majority incentive, and that requires fixing poverty. Again, I'm not saying "blame poor people." I'm saying, give them alternatives. The majority require fossil fuel emissions to make it to work. To barely survive. Most of us have terrible local waste management. Factories that produce what we need at the most cost effective margin to *literally provide food for our children.* This is such a nuanced issue, and I agree with you on it, in principle. Just not on the "conservative/liberal" part. Add your ego to an argument, you've already fell on the sword of your hubris. Look at the facts, find solutions. I hope one day we can both say we did more positive than negative for the environment, in order to do that we have to work together. I'm from the poorest state in my country. People without our issues do not care about us. People in California don't give a *literal shit* about us. We are too big, and all have our own problems. There is no incentive, there is no change, there is only routine and poverty. It starts with a change in attitude. You could argue the systems in place governing the decisions regarding the environment are corrupt, and it is sound. I could argue the EPA stripping us of the coal industry in our state and raising unemployment by 25% is corrupt. It is also sound, when you see people starve and literally commit suicide from losing their active lives. No one wants to die. We all want a better Earth, but if you have to fight for your next meal, you will wade through knee high fossil fuels knocking down every tree in your way to feed you and your family. Liberalism is a beautiful thing, we are supposed to understand everyone. Let's not make such a beautiful, simple vision, a bitter pill to swallow. People are in pain.
I find you, Lex to be a very switched on person with a humble yet greatly intelligent mind... and by learning and sharing info with the experts on your show, you are likely to be the one to have the "brainwave" that will bring forth "life changing" concepts that can be put into practice to solve many of the issues discussed. Thank your channel.
Not going to lie the conversation at 9:30 reminded me of one of my theories that we are all from a plant or fungus (because our cells are evolutionarily closer to fungi cells and it took forever for fungus to split off of plants but quickly mutated to animal cells in retrospect).
Ideas is a two edge sword. That’s great that our current instantaneous ability to share “good” ideas but it also allows a level playing field for “bad” ideas. It’s is easily demonstrable, both past and present, that an individual can take even the most well meaning peoples down a road of bad ideas.
Fucking hell. I'm 19 minutes in and this man keeps dropping one cosmically profound, societally clefting idea after the other like he's readings items off a menu. He has a way of clearly and unflinchingly stating such powerful truths. Feels like I'm somehow benching twice what I usually would be able to in my mind. So great!
He has time to think about these ideas and then presents them in quick succession. It would help if he expanded on his ideas a bit longer. Even if this means that we'll have to enjoy him for a few more podcasts
Civilization as we are currently experiencing and living within it may well be on thin ice but I think because of the struggle for money and power this is the main cause created by a very small percentage of the population.
Dude definitely brought up some very strong points. In spite of the huge set of problems before us I still find myself very optimistic. We havnt burned 100 million years of trees yet and the sun wont stop shining for a few more years. I think this idea of the entropic abyss to be overblown and tractable. 2. We should not discount the power of compounding improvement or leveraged gains. 3. Nonlinear effects of our actions on the environment are definitely scary. It's like running blind at full tilt right off the edge of a cliff. We cant model rare events or super complex phenomena accurately but we also fall in love with our models and this makes us arrogant. It is also partly why we hate the empirical wisdom of tribal people; we believe having a reason why is more important than if it works. Non linear effects are terrifying. 4. Trees may be smart, perhaps smarter than us lol and they may outlast us, but trees will never be the shepherds of earth's life to new planets. We hold a particular power that no other life form possesses. 5. The obvious damage humans have had on the biosphere is reversible. This is a hugely difficult problem since it is a subset of nonlinear effect phenomena and also a commons problem under the purview of government and a problem of foresight that will be magnitudes greater than the term limits. Nevertheless it is in all likelihood a problem we can solve. Considering the timescales bioms existed evolving free of modern humans it is likely to look much worse before it gets better. But nature itself is subject to our purview. No matter what lex thinks is desirable about being in nature most people would agree we should have killed most of the wolves bears and cats that roamed north America. It is all together unclear if humans as fragile as we currently are would be willing to live in an untamed wilderness. More over what this means for the project of revitalizing the biosphere. 5. As chemistry continues to improve so will the complexity of chemicals we can produce until finally our designs will rival life itself and replace life if we desire. Such nano machines will be a foundational tool in the solutions for many of the problems we are currently so worried about. 6. Humans can be made more resilient to the stressors of heat and scarcity. Seems like these practices also improve health span. 7. Governance and community is a super hard aspect of many problems. Implementation of a solution to a commons problem or a problem with several actors is 90% of the problem. Fucking hard to do but possible. This part is super undervalued and also filled with bright eyed naivete. 8. The evolution of materials will yield more renewable materials. Energy usage, material useage will only increase if we are successful as a species. Ai will do nothing to lower our energy expenditure. If it lowers cost of energy or increases energy efficiency it will increase gross energy expenditure. Ai is a tool that would facilitate many innovations in tech and science and perhaps even governance and sociology but it is no panacea. 9. Has our technology flatlined? Has it really slowed since the 70s? I doubt it. In a world of GUI like tools it becomes difficult for a layman to appreciate the advances in technology. We are like the frog being boiled slowly; ow and we also dont realize they are using induction cooktop lol. 10. Beauty doesn't mean something is good lex lol
I could listen to this man speak for hours. Incredible insight. He cuts through all the bullshit! Really makes you think about how we are on a runaway train and the breaks are gone. For the most part people alive today really don't care about what they leave behind for the next generation.
What is there to live for? Did you not understand THE Question? There is no future for us all! For some of our children's children, there might still be a planet to breath, eat, sleep, and repeat, but not in the way WE( that means YOU TO) are flooding this globe with off-spring! It does not matter what kind of 'solution' we try out next. Not even this stupid anti-greenhouse rules and implements government today are turning to, it will not do. If we would say: hey, let us shrink down this mass population to 1billion total... then... perhaps. Now you make the decision to get rid off 7billion other people. What is your solution? Covid20? Covid21?
Further, the Greeks understood the relationship between techné (skills, arts etc.) and telos (end, purpose). We are trying to analyse “fit for purpose” with impoverished frames that avoid the metaphysics that alone connect techniques with purposes. Impoverished understanding of nature and human nature now leave us both mesmerised and captured by run-away domination by techniques. This is where they are going at 26:00 and following but only overcoming the biases of contemporary schooling with its catastrophic fragmentation can get to shared purposes.
"It's possible that we aren't the most intelligent species on the planet...the reasons lion's have bigger brains than gazelles may not be because it takes more brain cells to chase as a lion than run away from one but, because the lions may have to perform more complex computations to ensure they don't exhaust their entire food source"... I don't say this often - I really don't - but Joscha Bach is possibly the smartest guy I've ever heard on UA-cam. Who even thinks like this?!
We certainly aren't the strongest that's for sure. A bear or a shark can easily eat us. And that covers most of the environments humans are in. Hell, a rottweiler can easily take someone down and they're in our houses. And dude, lions don't "manage their stock" lol They run on instinct OS. They only chase gazelles when they're hungry. And if it isn't gazelles, it's zebras and so on. The amount of energy they spend chasing them is enough so that they don't it often. Also the birth rate for herbivores is higher than carnivores because they're not that aggressive during coupling. A lioness can bite a head off if someone does something that they don't like. If humans weren't smarter than all the animals we probably wouldn't be here. The dumber you are the easier it is to die. But one the things I find must ironic in life is that dumb animals live closer to the 'real world' rather than intelligent humans. Because they don't have to resort to constructs to shape a reality that fits them. We don't need money, we don't need computers, we don't need a lot of artificial crap! It's all madness that people somehow believe in... And follow blindly. And living close to madness causes pain and grieve and allll that negative shit. Ever lived with someone that is clinically mad?? Yeah, it's not fun because they drag you into their madness also
@@Trip4man Yes! And it has been said by mental health professionals that the human animal is the most irrational of all! One example of this is people metaphorically following the stupid off a cliff.
I've thought about native american civilizations and how they still persist 4 centuries on, similar to how the Amish live. They grow what they need from the Earth to survive, they have strong communities & responsibilities to their communities, and they do not pollute the Earth like the rest of us do, almost like taking a vow of poverty. Without materialism there is no diversified economy, but makes me wonder if those communities are wiser because they will survive.
I don't believe it's starting again per se, but pushing beyond into a technology led green revolution. Harnessing "technology" to create synergy with the superorganism we are part of. It is true that since the first cell formed on Earth, it has never failed to replicate. In that sense we are all a single superorganism, with all the species we see on Earth today merely complex iterations of the original, much like the various cells in a body. In a biological sense our species is behaving as a cancer on Earth, both our resource consumption and destruction of other genetic diversity in the process, not to mention perturbing the very conditions conducive to life on Earth.
18:50 - that humor is a great addition to the science world. This is what Neil Postman wrote about in his books. Our attention span is very short today and the miss the essential things.
see the paper from berkeley that details the growth of tomato plants whilst listening to classical music, they grew larger. what probably was happening, was a paticular field was externally applied to the plants which led to greater growth... but the correlation was made to the music
I have questioned our existence a few times, but in those times I didnt have the spiritual understanding and appreciation of others/consciousness, so I learned our mind have habits of extreme thoughts and non mindfulness, so my view changed from dread and nightmare to understanding and growth and so I learned if you want big dreams you need a good perspective and also I learned to be positive and be kind even in the bad times.
I want to watch an interview with a brilliant terraforming expert reference terraforming the unused, non-productive deserts of earth. Also, populating the Antarctic continent. Why can’t we make OUR Earth a garden of eden? More plants = more food = better nutrition world-wide = a more intelligent Human populous. Happy people with plenty of square feet of living space & full stomachs makes a better world.
11:49 Lex PRECISELY said what I was thinking at that exact moment! RE "closed-cooling chain". Haha love it!!! One of the most fascinating and fun interviews yet.
Homie roughly said without missing a beat " An efficient government is a mechanism that allows you to align your Nash equilibrium to the rest of society." Effortless Brilliance.
27:45 "government shouldn't be perceivable " That's great government is just a frame. Collectivism never worked and brought immense human suffering I hope the US won't do that fatal mistake again to please hidden agendas . That man knows how to think logically. Brilliant mind,amazing cognitive fluency. Thanks Lex Fridman I didn't know that gentleman.
Our ancestors spent over 30,000 years living in small fiercely egalitarian communities, controlling selfishness and greed. Extreme individualism does not work. Humans are too self-interested. The Libertarian fantasy is dangerous, a direct path to totalitarian dictatorship, where the wealthiest and most powerful dominate everyone else. Some "government" is necessary to avoid a distopian outcome.
I'm going to slightly disagree with this statement that technology is stagnating, at least in so far as computer science is concerned. In that respect he's overlooking a fundamental fact, namely that computer science is a subfield of mathematics. Saying cs is stagnating, because someone from the 70s could just appear, read one book and understand everything happening today is as saying mathematics is stagnating, because someone from the 1900s could reappear, read one book and understand everything happening today in mathematics. That is how it's supposed to be. The whole point of basically any subfield of mathematics is to not only discover new things, but to make their derivations from the starting points, i.e. axioms, as succinct and elegant as possible so that everyone is able to accept state-of-the-art results by being able to verify for themselves how they have been derived from the fundamentals. It wouldn't make sense to come up with 10000 alternatives for the Turing Machine or Von Neumann architecture, because these models are already universal and practical. Rather, it really only makes sense to come up with as many interesting results and applications that build on top of these foundations. Just as how in math more generally, set theory is already sufficient to build most of modern mathematics on top of. Maybe, just maybe, it might be useful to reconsider such a foundation with some competing idea such as homotopy type theory; but then the idea definitely is not to have constant innovation but to actually have an even more solid base that you can then reliably build on. More specifically, the whole point of computer science is to solve hard problems so that they never have to be solved again. Think libraries and automatisation. CS is actually the sole source of innovation right now/eating the world, and, I would argue, the most disruptive kind of innovation we have ever had, that hopefully will re-enable other sectors of the economy that actually have stagnated in the mean time. I think this is what Lex was trying to get at. I think Joscha was trying to overgeneralise a different argument that I actually do agree with, namely that the physics-based disciplines of engineering have stagnated in this period. But the problem there is more of a political and economic one as the US and other Western countries have grown increasingly bureaucratic and become economically less and less free, which is most harmful for manufacturing businesses that have to take on a lot of risk up-front, with capital mostly tied up in physical equipment. Software businesses have it a lot easier in that sense, as their investments mostly consists of human capital consisting of software engineers with which it is easier to pivot in new directions in the face of new regulations.
Human history was written before the universe was created. The limits of phyics were encoded to produce the current civilization.The human race is under the delusion of self determination in order to manifest the true nature of the creator.
Concerning actually measuring technology stagnation (or lack of thereof), I see one simple, rational test - rate of GDP per capita growth. (assuming that discoveries matter, their implementation should be visible in economic data): Executive summary - after adjusting for noise, on global level there is a clear unimpeded constant growth since '50s. However, one could argue that the most developed countries started to clearly slow down in last decades, what implies that technological frontier is moving slower than it used, while achievements are done by late adopters. ourworldindata.org/economic-growth#historical-reconstructions-of-national-accounts-the-case-of-the-uk
The Canadian philosopher George Grant (obit 1998) wrote profoundly on “technique as the theology of liberalism” (see the Introduction to his “Philosophy in the Mass Age”, 1966). He traces, following Jacques Ellul the unfolding of technology and how, as Gideon earlier noted “ mechanisation takes command.” The only way out of this is overcoming the siloisation of contemporary schooling to comprehend a holistic account of life on this planet.
Who has time for Social Media? I workout daily, cook fresh, keep track of investments; I do not have a maid. Any remaining time is for Lex and other favorites!
This idea that hunter gatherers are not also destroying the environment is quite idealized and unrealistic. They often harvest honey by starting forest fires, for example.
Hilarious, Joshua Bach: Twitter in some sense is like a global brain that is completely hooked on dopamine, doesn't have any kind of inhibition, and as a result of is caught in a permanent seizure.
I think he's just being polite to his host, since Lex is a proponent of technological solutions and AI. He seems to divert when asked whether technology will help curb the problem, which implies that he doesn't think so. I would agree. If we look at our past more technology and automation almost always leads to increased consumption. There's no reason to think that better gadgets will somehow rewire the human brain to be more restrained.
@@PreschoolDropout673 it was surprising to me how Lex reacted to growth problem, I did not expected such reaction at all. I felt like he wanted to say something and then realized he has contradict thought.
George Carlin said in a bit something along the lines of, 'Save the Earth!? The Earth doesn't need saved; it'll brush us off and be just fine.' We should think of environmental and social reform as saving ourselves. The best point here is we are VERY short-sighted. Like they said about Mars. The worst Earth is better than the best Mars... And you wanna spend trillions to go there??
It would be wonderful to hear this man flesh out his thoughts on our demise and join in a conversation with someone who could produce more friction than lex's counters. I did enjoy listening nevertheless.
Honestly when I smoke a good one every once in a while. My mind and thoughts are racing and I come up with the same type of abstract / high level thinking like this guy
Every clip of Joscha is a glimpse of hope that we are brilliant enough to realize we fucked up and have to change our incentive structures if we want to stay on this spinning Hal!
With intelligent conversation I'd be happy to listen all day, focusing on achievement, and innovating consistently to address all possible concerns, lex you're so awesome you have such beautiful minds on this show
@@fishfire_2999 I agree. I fear Bach doesn't understand the danger of efficient government combined with utopian ideas. Friction is something that keeps the government in check and enables a certain degree of freedom (even in totalitarian countries)
Yes, the part about writing and reading a book requiring significant attention span is so true. Dopamine addiction. Probably the best part of the interview.
It's so rare and enjoyable to find somebody who properly thinks in terms of decades. Thank you Lex for finding these people.
I guess cause you mean a good way guaging things is every 10 years? Can you elaborate
Thank you for thanking him
Normal people: "this is bad"
Lex: "there are a lot of unpleasant proprieties about this process"
@@Spirosbotos Consequences manifest over time. Some not visible after one year become painfully obvious after a decade.
Thanks to Lex . . . " " I N D E E D ! ! ! " "
"We are extremely clever, but we are not wise." - Dennis McKenna
I've said that myself many times!
@Truth Is In Nature - I realized when I was 15 that if everyone who was trying to better the world stopped, and began working on bettering themselves, in that moment we would have world peace. .. 30+ years later and I am only slowly beginning to see just how many people seek, and require to engage others, to judge and correct, or judge and vilify, or judge and belittle.
The self righteousness is so ingrained, so foundational to the id and personality, that really intelligent people can't see it in themselves. The topic, whatever it may be, is taken for granted, so when questioned they answer, 'What are you talking about? Like you would do it differently.', or, 'Your idea is just crazy, you are bitter, or a troublemaker,' etc. etc. lol. imo it's ridiculous proportions, like everyone I meet. They will laugh at you, recruit others to support them, belittle you, discredit you, dismiss you, reaffirm themselves to themselves and others, all before considering the information for a second, and without offering a single conversational point, argument or refutation, except, of course, 'No, I don't think so.'
@J. C. I
"I spend as many hours a day as I possibly can smoking cannabis" - Terence Mckenna
Now reading The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abbyss, Dennis states soberly that the planet is pretty much done for (written in 2012).
“Twitter is a global brain thats in a constant seizure” ain’t that the truth
The first 2 minutes shows what everybody in the world needs to do. Take a second to just really understand what other people are saying.
Yes it’s important to understand the *meaning* of people’s words, or in the the case of this guy, first the words themselves ~
That takes a removal of the ego, and humility. Not happening in America lol
@eddie money which part of the lack of info are you talking about in your largely ad hominem comment? Have you done a video about the subject, or written a book so we can escape theorizing about the video's informational deficiencies? Otherwise, perhaps you didn't understand the conversation?
@eddie money You're the one having problems with understanding. You also seem to have a problem with outlining your ideas (if you have any). Calling people brain dead is hardly anything other but a playground insult - probably about your age, I imagine. If you care to expand on your original ad hominem statement, please feel free - otherwise, everyone might think you a massive pointless exhalation of gas.
@eddie money ok troll
"Closed cooling chain" was brilliant. Makes me think that everyone lives within their survival chain. Which is house-work-store. And for vacation we get to leave it for a few days and experience someone elses survival chain.
Some of us are doing permaculture and living more sustainable lives
@@lorebrown5307 Fooling themselves that they're more sustainable.
@@BM-is5ei exactly. And I don’t think you would use it in English. He does this with a lot of terms actually. In fact he is like a literal translator. I think that’s why lots of people don’t understand what he is saying
@@BM-is5ei that is absolutely true. It’s part of cultural differences. Same thing with American and British or even Aussie English. Sometimes words have a different meaning. It’s difficult to learn if you don’t live in the country
I live in the open cooling chain of Canada
When joscha smiles at the camera at 9:39, that's a man ecstatic about crushing worldviews
Bob Long feelsgoodman
I thought cells die/deconstruct? Maybe he means atoms or particles?
I can't express how grateful I am that there are people like Bach and Lex participating in the online sphere, and talking about these important topics. The world needs these conversations.
" The world needs these conversations . "
- - - A m e n Brian .
Lex actually listens and admits when he doesn’t know something. Has a great way of asking for clarification. Great podcaster!
- - A N D . . . I love his S T U B B U R N
insistance to be positive // optimistic .
“The first cell never died” Jesus Christ dude, subbed. Lol
Jesus he saves sinners an redeems them for valuable cash prize
that's as cool as realizing the matter you're made of is as old as time.
Can you make sense of that for me because i don’t understand how that’s so
@@CSwift-vr1qg matter can't be created or destroyed, so all matter including the matter we're made of has always been here, as long as time itself.
Bat Fink yes one of the laws of thermodynamics I get that. But to say the first cell never died is like saying the first man never died. Sounds a bit murky.
so basically humans discovering oil was like a teenager discovering red bull. For a while it made things awesome, but eventually their teeth rotted out and they got really really fat then died of related consequences.
You haven't discovered the light blue Red Bull that's sugar free.
@@jwadaow oh I'm sure that's perfectly safe 😂 that'd be the equivalent of clean coal. Still unsustainable.
Bat Fink inconvenient truth
@@lisasue4520 Isn't it though?
We will be using oil in 50 years for a very small minorities of things
Hoping for technological solutions to societal problems is like trying to run away from your own shadow. I like this guest way more than others that have been technology evangelicals, he's refreshingly honest about the problem and his contribution to it. No app or fancy rocket will fix our own mess when everything we create is imbued with our inherent faults. That's like raising your children with your own messed up values and then expecting them to fix everything later on.
" " . . . like trying to run from
your own shadow . " " - - Nice .
@@reubennichols644 some people just turn off the lights. No shadow = no problem 🤫
-
@Bastian
-
Your response . . . open to interpretation .
One . . . negative . . . perspective is that ' ya
are encouraging D E N I A L . That type of
severance . -- O R -- Maybe ' ya mean a more
meditative temporary severance from what
one perceives as chaotic anxieties . Awoomm .
Maybe ' ya. mean one should plunge . . .
. . . deeply // inwardly . Turn off the lights .
Delve into one ' s dark // inner - self .
-
Whatever ' ya mean to say . . . I am here and
now thinking of that flawed geographical
" " solution " " that they warn against at A A
meetings : " " Be careful . Know that No
matter where you go . . . there you are . " "
-
Attempting to run from oneself . . . N O T
- Recommended
- -- S m i l e s .
-
I love how happy and *GIGGLY* this guy sometimes gets when he talks about the end of civilization. This guy would be on my list of dudes who wouldnt mind ending humans. lmao
He's just your average east german ;)
Dana Black LOL That is just so incredibly apt!!
@@ajsworld77 Youre apt Axel, apt for whatever you put your mind to.
It feels good 👊🏽😎
@The House that Jack Built I think maybe thats what forces our species to innovate . To create, to explore , to discover. Yeah. Earth would have run out of food decades ago without modern farming and genetic seed manipulation and computing power and electricity and new tractors. Shit you never even think of. So yeah were now "running out of space" but not really. and thats also maybe why we should invest more on going to mars. lol
Who speaks this way? He's apparently sui generis . "Government is an agent that imposes an offset on payout metrics to make your Nash Equilibrium compatible with the common good." I love this guy.
@Nob the Knave In Germany it's really common to use academic language to explain something if you have an academic background and talk about academic related issues, I guess that the guest just wanted to state his opinion in a factual right way
@Nob the Knave But, ironically one cannot attain the vocabulary without having read many books. For him these words are easy to utilize for his purposes. They convey certain nuances that are important to him. Jazz musicians use their deep comprehension of music to play melodies that make unindoctrinated feel confused, like a language they just can't comprehend. Same concept.
"Governments impose a system of penalties and rewards on individuals to ensure that the good of the one yields, as much as possible, the good of the many." If you can't say it normally, then you're putting on airs and are simply being eliter-than-thou; in other words: a snob.
And on the issue, of the needs of the many versus the needs of the few, Uhura (whose name means freedom) had a few things to say here to Tuvok and others on Vulcan [and yes, the actual performers returned to play their roles] ... ua-cam.com/video/kFqAME7dx58/v-deo.html
@@RockBrentwood tbh for me as someone who is from a economics & business background nash equilibrium makes much more sense for the conversation... dude why shouldn't you use the correct terms if you want to explain something? If someone asks me about some macroeconomic related issue I won't answer the person with highschool related economics but rather with substance right? And if there are questions about words dude just ask :D nothing with snobbity here you guys are overanalyzing
@@RockBrentwood the minority seem to want destruction of the very living organism that keeps us alive, but yet to say that for the majority of the mass would appear to reject such suffering, in order to satisfy the minority?
With the understanding of the purposeful manipulation on the conscious.
This man is brilliant. He sees things in a clear way.
This guy has global warming derangement syndrome.
Also this guy is an idiot.
@@cbongiova Who do you considered intelligent? To me this guy is a genius but I assume there is smarter people out there.
@@cbongiova Lol, if this guy is an idiot, then we are all definitely screwed.
@@cbongiova Yeah, I didn't want to jump the gun before I finished watching the whole clip, but now that I'm finished I've gotta say... If you think this guy is an idiot, then you are in idiot. He explained pretty much everything he said very clearly. My guess is that you are the one who has global warming derangement syndrome and your brain basically shut down the second he said two words that you didn't agree. I'll also mention that discussion of that topic covered like 5% of the total conversation.
@@4Wayee Tell me about it. It's like these people have a perfectly formed opinion on everything.
It's pretty clear to me that AI won't bring the downfall of our civilization. It can't save it either. No matter how good your AI is, it can't prevent mobs of idiots from hurting both themselves and others.
@a1579 Yes, unless soil is regenerated with silicon and other nutrients.
@a1579 50 years doesn't exist as things are on the fast track and climate is just a part of that.
We cannot stop rising sea level possibly three meters or ten foot over the next hundred years but we could stop climate change. Planting trees then cutting them down and using the wood for building or furniture would keep carbon locked away and renewables and fusion will provide us with all the energy we need. Evolution is ruthless and opportunistic but it is not intelligent. ua-cam.com/video/b34al8YmQSA/v-deo.html
Software does not write itself nor can it. Intelligence requires self awareness ( conciousness) A machine cannot be concious even if it seems to be,any more than a sculpture can be real. Pinnochio was never a real boy.
@@johndelong5574 One exaflop is equivalent to the human brain and we are building exascale computers now so we will soon know if they can become self aware.
My grandfather, who is 95 and didn’t have electricity while he was growing up, says the only people who want to go back to the old days are the people who didn’t live in them.
Wow
Well no duh. But we’ve gotten to a point now where our creations are becoming very harmful. No one is asking to go back to the outdoor shitter days.
maybe nowadays also those who don't want to die as fast
My grandma died at 105 in 2014, she said she'd go back to her childhood compare to 2014, any day. I guess it depends who you are
Your grandfather has Alzheimer
Normal people: "this is bad"
Lex: "there are a lot of unpleasant proprieties about this process"
I assume he's trying to not put things in black-and-white
@@HomeSkillenSLICE yep
Cooling/heating to a livable condition is done by Earthships (I moved into one in Taos, NM) - the mass of the Earth always keeps us at very comfortable livable temperatures. Underground homes are similar & caves...
He's one of the sharpest people I've ever heard speak
Sharp as a bowling ball
he is. like yuval harari with math
@GWT123 No matter the political color, both parties have done a lot of good and bad.
It's not about politics, it's about energy. Energy is what keeps the show running. Now that peak oil is past (2018), we're going downhill and nothing can reverse the trend.
You should read J.A Tainter's book... You will realize soon that the fate of mankind doesn't depend of the puppets that think they are in charge
One of the dumbest people alive pretending to be smart by memorizing weird phrasing of common observations and rapidly spouting them out( Because they’re memorized) making other dumb people think this guy is smart. SMH
@Phoenix We need to vote in people that are not taking corporate money I don't think it matters anymore if they are Republican or Democrat. A powerful third party would be good to break this duopoly.
thank you lex, for stopping there to figure out what was meant. i was able to follow because of it. excellent interview
“Only when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish been caught, and the last stream poisoned, will we realize we cannot eat money.”
And...
@@mindlander
Meaning of greed
@@bacomiric if you understand the meaning of greed, you must realize every living thing on earth is greedy. It's kind of vacuous to point it out. My real question is.. why does that matter to you?
@@mindlander
I wrote this for others, not me.
@@bacomiric right on, I do really like this quote. In kind, I will leave my own.. Despite the philosophy of which you subscribe, you will find it quite necessary to fulfill your desires. It is no more possible to deny your desires than to predict your next thought.
So glad Lex stopped and asked about words. So many people are incapable of acknowledging they don't know what something means, or misheard, and simply nod their heads even though they don't understand what they heard. Props to Lex.
I love gold so much that I lost my genitalia in an unfortunate smelting accident
Making a cast in plaster would have been a far smarter idea.
The only difference is that Gold Member was supposedly Dutch and this guy is Deutsch
9:35 the way he gets super excited about the topic shows you how much he really loves this stuff
This is what happens when a smart German smokes weed!
He looks like he’s more into dmt
Hey - I resent, uh, I mean resemble that remark! 😀
@@donc4099 You mean H1tl3r?
Joscha's idea of plants perhaps being more intelligent than us, just on a different time-line is intriguing. Makes me think of Tom Bombadil's land in Lord of the Rings. Maybe Tolkien had something there.
I am Canadian and we have Social Democracy and after travelling about the world for a number of years I am always so glad to come home. I have found that Social Democracy is the best....why can't we all be a Social Democracy?
U.S. was that way in th 1960s and 70s.
We were highly unionized until REAGAN.
I'm happy for you.
Do you ask seriously?
You need for this specific set of circumstances:
1) high human capital (not only education, but I'm afraid also genetics)
2) high social cohesion (at best single predominant ethnic group)
While indeed nice, I'm not so convinced about its long term feasibility as it start to to attract outsiders who don't share local values, don't contribute much and are drain on local resources. So I'm afraid that there is only some window of opportunity and it's slowly ending.
@@bradhaaf4749 You know, when twin studies show that for adult in modern society IQ is 80% genetic, I don't see how one can say that it does not matter.
Additionally, research is also clear cut - diversity is reducing trust and social cohesion.
13:01 Yes and no. When it's so dry and hot that your sweat just immediately evaporates, you don't get to cool down much and then you're looking at heat stroke given enough time. Welcome to places like Death Valley, Bullhead City, Las Vegas and Phoenix. Dry is better than really humid, but that only goes so far. Lots of people have died after going out in the desert in mid-summer when their vehicle broke down. But I do agree with the premise that places like Las Vegas would have very few people were it not for air conditioning.
You know a guest is really good when even lex is confused
Lex ' s mind does N O T function
with the Grease -- Lightning -- Speed
that Joscha ' s does . That is N O T
a jab // stab at L ex . Joscha is
simply . . . soooooo . . . A M A Z I N G .
Great conversation. I love the idea that the planet and plants are on a different time scale and that their only purpose is to get back to carbon rich, and it needed to create humans to get the carbon back out again! So much deeper, but amazingly interesting.
Lex is really out of his interview comfort zone. Great talk!
Brian Cox once said the damage we are doing t earth will make it inhabitable for humans. But the planet itself has seen much harsher times and will be able to recover
From this mass extinction no life will recover. Co extinction will annihilate all planetary life due to environmental change. Nature, Strona and Bradshaw, 2018
@@lowieapitz8575 we have had asteroids and ice ages before yet life finds a way to return to earth
@@lowieapitz8575 as long as single-cell organisms remain, and it will, life will eventually return.
@@lowieapitz8575 dont you worry, nature will overtake all. Simply because, nature is all there is. It will just return to its equilibrium without our constant interfering.
Nature is not objectifying balance. Evolution is purposeless.
7:44 haha, love that notion that humans are Gaia's ploy to put carbon back into the atmosphere. Reminds me of that George Carlin bit where he talks about how our main goal on the planet may be to create plastic so the planet can claim it for itself.
Great video. Joscha is one smart cookie.
Unfortunately his brilliance is far beyond intellectual and emotional intelligence of the majority of goof balls commenting below.
So right about George Carlin, was listening the other day.
This was so incredibly funny and amazingly put.
I loved that the interviewer took the time to ask him to explain rather than saying “um hmm” and letting him move on like so many others would do.
Ahhh the unabomber said the EXACT same thing 30 years ago..
@Manny Santiago yes sir read "the systems neatest trick"
yes! i was trying to remember who this guy reminded me of and bingo, you nailed it.
Lex's podcast with Joscha is one of the best I've ever had the pleasure of listening to.
05:00 interesting..I'd never considered intelligence in terms of timescale..
@@Mixima101 it makes sense after you realise that we live in a universe with 3 spatial dimensions (3d space) and 1 temporal dimension (1d time) but all together they create this weird hybrid 4d object called spacetime which can essentially be thought of as a single uniform thing the same way that multiple threads woven together create a single uniform fabric.
that's probably the only thing that made sense in this whole clip. Even then, is intelligence actually BETTER if it's 1000x times slower than others?
Joscha Bach has a very insightful, intelligent view. He mentions our problems AND mentions common solutions... definitely going to check out some more of Joscha Bach's videos. I would love to hear a q&a with Bach and Elon. 🤔🤓
This guy blew me mind atleast 5 times in this clip. Such a fun and unique take on our reality. Very interesting to entertain his way of thinking!
He’s amazing. No one has broken it down the way he does and the reasons why we are doomed. Poor Lex doesn’t want to believe it.
" " . . . 5 times " " -- at least for me too .
There are so many mind blowing ideas and concepts in this podcast that I've already listened to it several times.
Maybe we are just Gaia's plan to put more carbon back into the atmosphere. Tongue in cheek and brilliant!
Remind me of the Carlin bit: "Maybe the planet invented us, because it couldn't make the plastic it wanted by itself!"
The guy that originated the Gaia theory actually believes that now.
@@eleganz Why?
@rvidal0001 "Conservatives?" This talk solves nothing. Come on man, I'm a libertarian, you're shining a negative bitter light on these views. I'd like to think of them as our views, you've made that clear. I'm not trying to be contrary or negative, but, I can tell you for a 100 percent fact that neither side really understands the science and nuance of said science regarding climate change. At least the populace doesn't, generally, because it has became devisive. They take examples from wildly different schools of thought that compound different data, and expound upon that data regarding different theories without having a model to exhibit actual "proof." Don't be a victim of irony in your rhetoric, the consequences of the "fishes" and the ocean are the most glaring example of the negative impacts of climate change, especially in the rivers connected to it. Since the ocean is the biggest natural resource the Earth has, does common sense not denote we pay attention to it more than anything else? Studies actually show, overfishing is actually killing more of them than pollution. Though 80 percent of statistics are wrong. Are either of us intelligent enough or resourceful to discern the truth? I agree we should take responsibility for the negative impact of climate change, because we should responsibly conduct ourselves in a manner that respects our environment. Like more prevalent recycling bins, (as seen in Japan) restrictions on landfills, replacing industries dependent on lumber that need not be (I.e., paper.) leading to forest conservation, sewage management, clean water, and especially clean energy. Unfortunately, we will get no where by pointing fingers, at "conservatives," or "liberals," if you care, keep your agenda out of it and make a positive example. Your rhetoric divides people. I'm not attacking you, I'm telling you this data has been sullied due to the propaganda of both sides. The sad fact is, I don't think clashing agendas and "higher taxes," are the main cause of people caring... Except for a few millionaire/billionaires exploiting the environment for financial gain. Yes, those people are evil bastards. But, compare *their* damage to the damages caused by those suffering from poverty. It is an exponential difference. To fix the environment we have to give the majority incentive, and that requires fixing poverty. Again, I'm not saying "blame poor people." I'm saying, give them alternatives. The majority require fossil fuel emissions to make it to work. To barely survive. Most of us have terrible local waste management. Factories that produce what we need at the most cost effective margin to *literally provide food for our children.* This is such a nuanced issue, and I agree with you on it, in principle. Just not on the "conservative/liberal" part. Add your ego to an argument, you've already fell on the sword of your hubris. Look at the facts, find solutions. I hope one day we can both say we did more positive than negative for the environment, in order to do that we have to work together. I'm from the poorest state in my country. People without our issues do not care about us. People in California don't give a *literal shit* about us. We are too big, and all have our own problems. There is no incentive, there is no change, there is only routine and poverty. It starts with a change in attitude. You could argue the systems in place governing the decisions regarding the environment are corrupt, and it is sound. I could argue the EPA stripping us of the coal industry in our state and raising unemployment by 25% is corrupt. It is also sound, when you see people starve and literally commit suicide from losing their active lives. No one wants to die. We all want a better Earth, but if you have to fight for your next meal, you will wade through knee high fossil fuels knocking down every tree in your way to feed you and your family. Liberalism is a beautiful thing, we are supposed to understand everyone. Let's not make such a beautiful, simple vision, a bitter pill to swallow. People are in pain.
I read this comment as he said it. Gaia wanted me to see this.
I find you, Lex to be a very switched on person with a humble yet greatly intelligent mind... and by learning and sharing info with the experts on your show, you are likely to be the one to have the "brainwave" that will bring forth "life changing" concepts that can be put into practice to solve many of the issues discussed. Thank your channel.
Sooooooo positive . Nice .
Not going to lie the conversation at 9:30 reminded me of one of my theories that we are all from a plant or fungus (because our cells are evolutionarily closer to fungi cells and it took forever for fungus to split off of plants but quickly mutated to animal cells in retrospect).
Ideas is a two edge sword. That’s great that our current instantaneous ability to share “good” ideas but it also allows a level playing field for “bad” ideas. It’s is easily demonstrable, both past and present, that an individual can take even the most well meaning peoples down a road of bad ideas.
These two men changed my conscious awareness tenfold.🤯
The title of this video is not view friendly. VERY good clip. "Closed cooling system" really blew his mind.
Fucking hell. I'm 19 minutes in and this man keeps dropping one cosmically profound, societally clefting idea after the other like he's readings items off a menu. He has a way of clearly and unflinchingly stating such powerful truths. Feels like I'm somehow benching twice what I usually would be able to in my mind. So great!
He has time to think about these ideas and then presents them in quick succession. It would help if he expanded on his ideas a bit longer. Even if this means that we'll have to enjoy him for a few more podcasts
Mind. Blown. Again. This is is why I keep coming back to Lex Fridman's podcasts.
Civilization as we are currently experiencing and living within it may well be on thin ice but I think because of the struggle for money and power this is the main cause created by a very small percentage of the population.
Dude definitely brought up some very strong points. In spite of the huge set of problems before us I still find myself very optimistic. We havnt burned 100 million years of trees yet and the sun wont stop shining for a few more years. I think this idea of the entropic abyss to be overblown and tractable.
2. We should not discount the power of compounding improvement or leveraged gains.
3. Nonlinear effects of our actions on the environment are definitely scary. It's like running blind at full tilt right off the edge of a cliff. We cant model rare events or super complex phenomena accurately but we also fall in love with our models and this makes us arrogant. It is also partly why we hate the empirical wisdom of tribal people; we believe having a reason why is more important than if it works. Non linear effects are terrifying.
4. Trees may be smart, perhaps smarter than us lol and they may outlast us, but trees will never be the shepherds of earth's life to new planets. We hold a particular power that no other life form possesses.
5. The obvious damage humans have had on the biosphere is reversible. This is a hugely difficult problem since it is a subset of nonlinear effect phenomena and also a commons problem under the purview of government and a problem of foresight that will be magnitudes greater than the term limits. Nevertheless it is in all likelihood a problem we can solve. Considering the timescales bioms existed evolving free of modern humans it is likely to look much worse before it gets better. But nature itself is subject to our purview. No matter what lex thinks is desirable about being in nature most people would agree we should have killed most of the wolves bears and cats that roamed north America. It is all together unclear if humans as fragile as we currently are would be willing to live in an untamed wilderness. More over what this means for the project of revitalizing the biosphere.
5. As chemistry continues to improve so will the complexity of chemicals we can produce until finally our designs will rival life itself and replace life if we desire. Such nano machines will be a foundational tool in the solutions for many of the problems we are currently so worried about.
6. Humans can be made more resilient to the stressors of heat and scarcity. Seems like these practices also improve health span.
7. Governance and community is a super hard aspect of many problems. Implementation of a solution to a commons problem or a problem with several actors is 90% of the problem. Fucking hard to do but possible. This part is super undervalued and also filled with bright eyed naivete.
8. The evolution of materials will yield more renewable materials. Energy usage, material useage will only increase if we are successful as a species. Ai will do nothing to lower our energy expenditure. If it lowers cost of energy or increases energy efficiency it will increase gross energy expenditure. Ai is a tool that would facilitate many innovations in tech and science and perhaps even governance and sociology but it is no panacea.
9. Has our technology flatlined? Has it really slowed since the 70s? I doubt it. In a world of GUI like tools it becomes difficult for a layman to appreciate the advances in technology. We are like the frog being boiled slowly; ow and we also dont realize they are using induction cooktop lol.
10. Beauty doesn't mean something is good lex lol
19:10 best description of twitter ever
Man, you could have premier a complete award winning tv series out of that 3 hours convo.
I could listen to this man speak for hours. Incredible insight. He cuts through all the bullshit! Really makes you think about how we are on a runaway train and the breaks are gone. For the most part people alive today really don't care about what they leave behind for the next generation.
What is there to live for? Did you not understand THE Question? There is no future for us all! For some of our children's children, there might still be a planet to breath, eat, sleep, and repeat, but not in the way WE( that means YOU TO) are flooding this globe with off-spring! It does not matter what kind of 'solution' we try out next. Not even this stupid anti-greenhouse rules and implements government today are turning to, it will not do. If we would say: hey, let us shrink down this mass population to 1billion total... then... perhaps.
Now you make the decision to get rid off 7billion other people. What is your solution?
Covid20? Covid21?
Y E S . For the most - part .
Y E T . . . N O T entirely .
Being optimistic is not
a futile endeavor .
Further, the Greeks understood the relationship between techné (skills, arts etc.)
and telos (end, purpose). We are trying to analyse “fit for purpose” with impoverished frames that avoid the metaphysics that alone connect techniques with purposes. Impoverished understanding of nature and human nature now leave us both mesmerised and captured by run-away domination by techniques. This is where they are going at 26:00 and following but only overcoming the biases of contemporary schooling with its catastrophic fragmentation can get to shared purposes.
"It's possible that we aren't the most intelligent species on the planet...the reasons lion's have bigger brains than gazelles may not be because it takes more brain cells to chase as a lion than run away from one but, because the lions may have to perform more complex computations to ensure they don't exhaust their entire food source"... I don't say this often - I really don't - but Joscha Bach is possibly the smartest guy I've ever heard on UA-cam. Who even thinks like this?!
Yeah, my brain tickled when he shared certain ideas. Rarely find somebody like him.
We certainly aren't the strongest that's for sure. A bear or a shark can easily eat us. And that covers most of the environments humans are in. Hell, a rottweiler can easily take someone down and they're in our houses. And dude, lions don't "manage their stock" lol They run on instinct OS. They only chase gazelles when they're hungry. And if it isn't gazelles, it's zebras and so on. The amount of energy they spend chasing them is enough so that they don't it often. Also the birth rate for herbivores is higher than carnivores because they're not that aggressive during coupling. A lioness can bite a head off if someone does something that they don't like. If humans weren't smarter than all the animals we probably wouldn't be here. The dumber you are the easier it is to die. But one the things I find must ironic in life is that dumb animals live closer to the 'real world' rather than intelligent humans. Because they don't have to resort to constructs to shape a reality that fits them. We don't need money, we don't need computers, we don't need a lot of artificial crap! It's all madness that people somehow believe in... And follow blindly. And living close to madness causes pain and grieve and allll that negative shit. Ever lived with someone that is clinically mad?? Yeah, it's not fun because they drag you into their madness also
He's so entertaining to listen to, Daniel Schmachtenberger is also fantastic.
@@Trip4man Yes! And it has been said by mental health professionals that the human animal is the most irrational of all! One example of this is people metaphorically following the stupid off a cliff.
I've thought about native american civilizations and how they still persist 4 centuries on, similar to how the Amish live. They grow what they need from the Earth to survive, they have strong communities & responsibilities to their communities, and they do not pollute the Earth like the rest of us do, almost like taking a vow of poverty. Without materialism there is no diversified economy, but makes me wonder if those communities are wiser because they will survive.
Every cell today is just an instance of the first single cell that divided and kept dividing. Profound. An unbroken chain of life and conciousness
Is this dude just spitting all this off the dome or what.
he created u
R I G H T? I'm fairly sure that dude HAS THE ANSWERS. WTFHOLYSHIT THIS PODCAST THOUGH.
Intellectual beast mode
its appears so... i subbed this shit 5 minutes ago. And this is just the clips channel
Bars off the dome
This man knows more words in a foreign language than I do in my own language.
Gill
I grew up old fashioned way , grow your own food , learn survival skills as one day , modern life be gone , we have to start again
I don't believe it's starting again per se, but pushing beyond into a technology led green revolution. Harnessing "technology" to create synergy with the superorganism we are part of. It is true that since the first cell formed on Earth, it has never failed to replicate. In that sense we are all a single superorganism, with all the species we see on Earth today merely complex iterations of the original, much like the various cells in a body. In a biological sense our species is behaving as a cancer on Earth, both our resource consumption and destruction of other genetic diversity in the process, not to mention perturbing the very conditions conducive to life on Earth.
18:50 - that humor is a great addition to the science world. This is what Neil Postman wrote about in his books. Our attention span is very short today and the miss the essential things.
This boy was spitting fire on the Track!
I have never heard you before and this was a PHENOMENAL interview! I subscribed and look forward to catching up.
Im am so unbelievably impressed by this man
Awesome interview😁
"Closed cooling chain" is basically the widely used German "geschlossene Kühlkette".
I googled it, and one of the first things that came up was a literal chain covered in ice crystals.
see the paper from berkeley that details the growth of tomato plants whilst listening to classical music, they grew larger. what probably was happening, was a paticular field was externally applied to the plants which led to greater growth... but the correlation was made to the music
What a cheerful chappie, thoroughly enjoying telling us how we are all going to die!
I have questioned our existence a few times, but in those times I didnt have the spiritual understanding and appreciation of others/consciousness, so I learned our mind have habits of extreme thoughts and non mindfulness, so my view changed from dread and nightmare to understanding and growth and so I learned if you want big dreams you need a good perspective and also I learned to be positive and be kind even in the bad times.
One of the best podcasts in the world, outstanding.
Please have Joscha on again. One of the best.
I want to watch an interview with a brilliant terraforming expert reference terraforming the unused, non-productive deserts of earth. Also, populating the Antarctic continent. Why can’t we make OUR Earth a garden of eden? More plants = more food = better nutrition world-wide = a more intelligent Human populous. Happy people with plenty of square feet of living space & full stomachs makes a better world.
11:49 Lex PRECISELY said what I was thinking at that exact moment! RE "closed-cooling chain". Haha love it!!! One of the most fascinating and fun interviews yet.
Wow! This guy is amazing! What an incredible insight on ourselves.
Homie roughly said without missing a beat " An efficient government is a mechanism that allows you to align your Nash equilibrium to the rest of society."
Effortless Brilliance.
27:45 "government shouldn't be perceivable "
That's great government is just a frame.
Collectivism never worked and brought immense human suffering I hope the US won't do that fatal mistake again to please hidden agendas .
That man knows how to think logically.
Brilliant mind,amazing cognitive fluency.
Thanks Lex Fridman I didn't know that gentleman.
Americans never talk about the individual. They talk about generations, communities, etnicities, families, corporations, you get the idea.
Our ancestors spent over 30,000 years living in small fiercely egalitarian communities, controlling selfishness and greed. Extreme individualism does not work. Humans are too self-interested. The Libertarian fantasy is dangerous, a direct path to totalitarian dictatorship, where the wealthiest and most powerful dominate everyone else. Some "government" is necessary to avoid a distopian outcome.
Thank you Josha & Lex
I'm going to slightly disagree with this statement that technology is stagnating, at least in so far as computer science is concerned. In that respect he's overlooking a fundamental fact, namely that computer science is a subfield of mathematics. Saying cs is stagnating, because someone from the 70s could just appear, read one book and understand everything happening today is as saying mathematics is stagnating, because someone from the 1900s could reappear, read one book and understand everything happening today in mathematics. That is how it's supposed to be.
The whole point of basically any subfield of mathematics is to not only discover new things, but to make their derivations from the starting points, i.e. axioms, as succinct and elegant as possible so that everyone is able to accept state-of-the-art results by being able to verify for themselves how they have been derived from the fundamentals. It wouldn't make sense to come up with 10000 alternatives for the Turing Machine or Von Neumann architecture, because these models are already universal and practical. Rather, it really only makes sense to come up with as many interesting results and applications that build on top of these foundations. Just as how in math more generally, set theory is already sufficient to build most of modern mathematics on top of. Maybe, just maybe, it might be useful to reconsider such a foundation with some competing idea such as homotopy type theory; but then the idea definitely is not to have constant innovation but to actually have an even more solid base that you can then reliably build on.
More specifically, the whole point of computer science is to solve hard problems so that they never have to be solved again. Think libraries and automatisation. CS is actually the sole source of innovation right now/eating the world, and, I would argue, the most disruptive kind of innovation we have ever had, that hopefully will re-enable other sectors of the economy that actually have stagnated in the mean time. I think this is what Lex was trying to get at.
I think Joscha was trying to overgeneralise a different argument that I actually do agree with, namely that the physics-based disciplines of engineering have stagnated in this period. But the problem there is more of a political and economic one as the US and other Western countries have grown increasingly bureaucratic and become economically less and less free, which is most harmful for manufacturing businesses that have to take on a lot of risk up-front, with capital mostly tied up in physical equipment. Software businesses have it a lot easier in that sense, as their investments mostly consists of human capital consisting of software engineers with which it is easier to pivot in new directions in the face of new regulations.
Human history was written before the universe was created. The limits of phyics were encoded to produce the current civilization.The human race is under the delusion of self determination in order to manifest the true nature of the creator.
Concerning actually measuring technology stagnation (or lack of thereof), I see one simple, rational test - rate of GDP per capita growth. (assuming that discoveries matter, their implementation should be visible in economic data):
Executive summary - after adjusting for noise, on global level there is a clear unimpeded constant growth since '50s. However, one could argue that the most developed countries started to clearly slow down in last decades, what implies that technological frontier is moving slower than it used, while achievements are done by late adopters.
ourworldindata.org/economic-growth#historical-reconstructions-of-national-accounts-the-case-of-the-uk
The Canadian philosopher George Grant (obit 1998) wrote profoundly on “technique as the theology of liberalism” (see the Introduction to his “Philosophy in the Mass Age”, 1966). He traces, following Jacques Ellul the unfolding of technology and how, as Gideon earlier noted “ mechanisation takes command.” The only way out of this is overcoming the siloisation of contemporary schooling to comprehend a holistic account of life on this planet.
"It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." T-100
I'll be back! T-100
Arnie was a T-800 model.
One of your best talks
Who has time for Social Media? I workout daily, cook fresh, keep track of investments; I do not have a maid. Any remaining time is for Lex and other favorites!
.. what kind of investments?
Isn't posting on UA-cam social media? you dunce.
This idea that hunter gatherers are not also destroying the environment is quite idealized and unrealistic. They often harvest honey by starting forest fires, for example.
Hilarious, Joshua Bach: Twitter in some sense is like a global brain that is completely hooked on dopamine, doesn't have any kind of inhibition, and as a result of is caught in a permanent seizure.
Your chanel deserve more subs
Is it me or the guy just answers whatever the hell he wants
I think he's just being polite to his host, since Lex is a proponent of technological solutions and AI. He seems to divert when asked whether technology will help curb the problem, which implies that he doesn't think so. I would agree. If we look at our past more technology and automation almost always leads to increased consumption. There's no reason to think that better gadgets will somehow rewire the human brain to be more restrained.
@@PreschoolDropout673 it was surprising to me how Lex reacted to growth problem, I did not expected such reaction at all. I felt like he wanted to say something and then realized he has contradict thought.
"We burned 100 million years of trees to give everyone plumbing"
God damn, helluva way to put it
This is the most enjoyable and depressing conversation I have ever heard.
George Carlin said in a bit something along the lines of, 'Save the Earth!? The Earth doesn't need saved; it'll brush us off and be just fine.' We should think of environmental and social reform as saving ourselves. The best point here is we are VERY short-sighted. Like they said about Mars. The worst Earth is better than the best Mars... And you wanna spend trillions to go there??
" " The worst Earth is better
than the best Mars . " " -- Clever .
Mr Hypotic eyes talks to Mr hypnotic voice..
right!
It would be wonderful to hear this man flesh out his thoughts on our demise and join in a conversation with someone who could produce more friction than lex's counters. I did enjoy listening nevertheless.
23:09 'incentivizing the most sentient communities' .....If I wasn't drunk , my brain would explode.
Cannot be understated. That was an absolute JOY to watch!
This guy is me if I never smoked weed.
HaHaHaHaHaHa!!!! I love u
Both of them are Me ON weed!
Honestly when I smoke a good one every once in a while. My mind and thoughts are racing and I come up with the same type of abstract / high level thinking like this guy
Keep telling yourself that
@@sloaiza81 Why would you say that? Just an honest question
Every clip of Joscha is a glimpse of hope that we are brilliant enough to realize we fucked up and have to change our incentive structures if we want to stay on this spinning Hal!
No civilisation in the USA : they went from the Founding Fathers to total degeneracy in more or less 230 years.
Rome survived for like 800 years and half of those years had degeneracy, revolts, raids etc.
@@jayflo714 america is just the new Rome. That's why Kennedy was assinated..he wanted to change paper money into gold standard. They killed him.
The Democratic Party is the basis for the destruction of American civilization. They need to be stopped.
@SongOfCelestia America was degenerate long before Bezmenov.
P.S. He wasn't a KGB agent.
USA was just another social experiment which miserably failed. Typical with human society better rule us AI than group of incompetent greedy fools.
With intelligent conversation I'd be happy to listen all day, focusing on achievement, and innovating consistently to address all possible concerns, lex you're so awesome you have such beautiful minds on this show
"Ideally, government should be frictionless."
Yeah...so when governments are tasked with carting people off to concentration camps, it should ideally work as efficiently as possible, right?
There needs to be more than one opinion on so many different topics ,friction is necessary .
@@fishfire_2999 I agree. I fear Bach doesn't understand the danger of efficient government combined with utopian ideas. Friction is something that keeps the government in check and enables a certain degree of freedom (even in totalitarian countries)
Yes, the part about writing and reading a book requiring significant attention span is so true. Dopamine addiction. Probably the best part of the interview.
I will "re-subscribe" every time you bring someone like Dr. Bach on - brilliant
I loved this! Joscha is wonderful. I’ll be listening to a lot more of him.