Hard dodger build part 1

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 10 гру 2024
  • I begin building the plywood hard dodger for my cape dory 28 sailboat.
    If you’re interested in contributing, links for venmo, patreon, or paypal are below:
    venmo.com/code...
    / samholmes
    cash.app/$SamH...
    www.paypal.me/...
    Follow me on instagram @SamHolmesSailing
    Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com...
    samholmessailing@gmail.com
    Special thanks to George, John and Dave for help on the dodger this week.

КОМЕНТАРІ • 316

  • @TERoss-jk9ny
    @TERoss-jk9ny 3 роки тому +140

    I appreciate you Sam. I’m fighting multiple health issues but watching you gives me the will to get out again and try. Thanks!

    • @insiteempeyer6646
      @insiteempeyer6646 3 роки тому +9

      Stay strong. God bless you

    • @ryangregohara
      @ryangregohara 3 роки тому +10

      Hope you are able to stay positive. Seeing Sam has really given me comfort and joy despite being locked down and unable to see family.

    • @TERoss-jk9ny
      @TERoss-jk9ny 3 роки тому +5

      @@ryangregohara : Thanks!!

    • @MrNikkoz
      @MrNikkoz 3 роки тому +2

      I am right there with you T.E. I feel like as soon as we get out on the water everything will be right. Godspeed

    • @stephenkillick5812
      @stephenkillick5812 3 роки тому +4

      I am technically disabled, but your videos keep my dream of ocean sailing alive. If you lose the idea of accomplishing a mostly relaxing pursuit, you lose the will to live and that I am not prepared to even consider. I am alive for a reason and I am not inclined to rule out possibilities.

  • @calebh2642
    @calebh2642 3 роки тому +22

    I like being part of the build. Going to be even more epic when she sets sail to cross the Atlantic

  • @mammaholmes
    @mammaholmes 3 роки тому +99

    I've said it before, I'll say it again, "My kids are so cool". He probably got that plastic bag/frosting trick from all the cookies we decorated when they were little. 👨‍🍳

    • @rhett7716
      @rhett7716 3 роки тому +5

      Wow youve raised Great kids Ann. Congratulations 👏👍😊

    • @MrNikkoz
      @MrNikkoz 3 роки тому +6

      Haha, even Momma is here, best channel ever. It is wholesome and highlights one of my favorite Mantras, "Done is better than perfect."

  • @Kathleensailorgirl
    @Kathleensailorgirl 3 роки тому +21

    You are so impressive with all your skills, the dodger will be a great addition for both comfort and safety.
    Cannot wait to see you back in the water . Stay healthy and safe⛵️⛵️⛵️😊

  • @buddydog1956
    @buddydog1956 3 роки тому +5

    Sam 's a Viking! He can do anything!!!

  • @brianbarnes7774
    @brianbarnes7774 3 роки тому +1

    That hard dodger is a work of art! You have a true talent for fabricating parts with just a vision of how you want it to look, and you also consider function at the same time. Nice work, Sam.

  • @bilsabo
    @bilsabo 3 роки тому +8

    Thanks for the videos, after watching you and a few other sailing channels over the past 5 years, i finally bought my very own, a nice Niagara 35. Maybe we’ll cross paths in our travels. Cheers

  • @jwyzdm
    @jwyzdm 3 роки тому +3

    Great job Sam, I always tell my kids when we're doing body work on their cars, I do a 20 ft paint job.
    It looks great from 20 feet away. No wonder I enjoy your channel so much.

  • @jrh4lo
    @jrh4lo 3 роки тому +1

    Sam,you are a jack of all trades!!!
    The dodger looks badass.

  • @johncampbell388
    @johncampbell388 3 роки тому +2

    We care about you Sam. And so, wear a mask anytime you're working with cabosil!

  • @gregstiles
    @gregstiles 3 роки тому +4

    I like how often you are posting new vids bud.

  • @stuartdowning8131
    @stuartdowning8131 3 роки тому +7

    @9:02 My Dad used to say, "Looks good from a galloping horse."

  • @LSZ71F4Ucorsair
    @LSZ71F4Ucorsair 3 роки тому +15

    Sam's going big time now! haha you're bad ass bud, and an inspiration in not only work ethic end creativity, but In what kind of world you can shape for yourself with a vision and dedication despite the cards youre dealt. Killed it as always!

    • @insideoutface
      @insideoutface 3 роки тому +1

      Why what's wrong with his cards? The 2 buttholes thing? (although I think he's back to one now)

    • @LSZ71F4Ucorsair
      @LSZ71F4Ucorsair 3 роки тому +5

      @@insideoutface My mans no complainer, I wouldn't know. But if he doesn't have horses, hell use tires. If he doesn't have a dinghy, hell build one. He works with what hes got and does great doing it. Everyone has problems but it takes a tough ass imagineer to make this shit look easy.

    • @rhett7716
      @rhett7716 3 роки тому +2

      @@LSZ71F4Ucorsair well said 👍👏😁

  • @mbhull27
    @mbhull27 3 роки тому +4

    Awesome Sam, I love every video you put out. This one here has given me great ideas for my Cat 22 - kind of wanted a dodger but when you price them, no thank you. I super appreciate your soaring Spirit, Wonderful attitude and Inspirational Ideas!!!

  • @christianoboyle8104
    @christianoboyle8104 3 роки тому +1

    Super cool project I love how happy you are

  • @kman-mi7su
    @kman-mi7su 3 роки тому +1

    Sam Holmes sailing, one of my three favorite sailing channels on here. Distant Shores, and Odd Life Crafting being the other two. I enjoy living vicariously thru you guys! Keep up the good work Sam! I'd love to see you someday own a boat like DIstant Shore's sailboat, a Southerly 42'. They go everywhere with that thing.

  • @jacksmith8002
    @jacksmith8002 3 роки тому +3

    when I messed around with boat projects I use to call them 10 footers, they looked great from 10 ft

  • @meh4743
    @meh4743 3 роки тому +1

    Sam, you are a great inspiration. Thank you and keep the videos coming.

  • @popsoldboats3406
    @popsoldboats3406 3 роки тому

    The little visor will help reduce sun glare. That's why all us cool truckers have them. And smart captains.

  • @cecilpacetti1491
    @cecilpacetti1491 3 роки тому +5

    I've seen this done twice before on sailing channels and both times they had to replace the dodger because the plywood rotted away. Both times they used a foam board core the 2nd time around. Good luck.

    • @dooleyfussle8634
      @dooleyfussle8634 3 роки тому +1

      I was wondering if that might not have been a better material for the base of the dodger, especially since he "lost" much of the plywood when he cut out the windows. On the other hand, it's going to need to be able to withstand a lot of pounding under rough seas, so maybe this was the best choice. Time will tell.

    • @TravelinLight303
      @TravelinLight303 3 роки тому +1

      Free Range Sailing as a lot of great examples on many of these projects as well.

  • @hermitoldguy6312
    @hermitoldguy6312 3 роки тому +2

    Well done, George. Good man.

  • @mylespowers3965
    @mylespowers3965 3 роки тому +6

    ‘a project you look at from a distance’ sounds like the dinghy I’m starting to build. :)

    • @JakeHolman78
      @JakeHolman78 3 роки тому

      Hey, I built the same dinghy in my garage last winter, lol.

  • @Brian-sn4eu
    @Brian-sn4eu 3 роки тому +27

    Of all the sailing channels I watch, Sam drills the most holes in his boats. lol.

    • @tbecker8518
      @tbecker8518 3 роки тому

      no shit. a good or bad thing?

    • @genesmith4019
      @genesmith4019 3 роки тому

      ​@@tbecker8518 Where do the paper towels tear off the roll? Usually along the holes-

  • @Ash-cy7yw
    @Ash-cy7yw 3 роки тому +1

    Love this dodger construction vid entry. Thanks Sam, you always inspire.

  • @sartorst3376
    @sartorst3376 3 роки тому +4

    A 20 feet away project that's funny ! wish I was close enough to help

  • @robertpeterson1137
    @robertpeterson1137 3 роки тому +2

    this is one of your best vids thanks.

  • @PcNoHow
    @PcNoHow 3 роки тому +2

    Looking good, keep on keeping on!! Looking forward in following you a cross the Atlantic.

  • @jodimullen392
    @jodimullen392 3 роки тому +3

    It gives it some character, looks good. Cheers.

  • @greggromack8319
    @greggromack8319 3 роки тому +1

    Great job Sam. Hard dodger is a good idea for ocean sailing.

  • @benjaminellickson3947
    @benjaminellickson3947 3 роки тому

    Hey Sam. Very inspirational. I really enjoy seeing your practical and sustainable style of renovation.

  • @daneulekowski929
    @daneulekowski929 3 роки тому +21

    Some day he'll be sailing a Sam Holmes 37, hull #1

    • @rhett7716
      @rhett7716 3 роки тому +5

      That wouldn't surprise me !

    • @yru435
      @yru435 3 роки тому +1

      They have to make the 3-D printers oversized.

    • @ianmangham4570
      @ianmangham4570 3 роки тому

      I'm off to look at a Sam Holmes😂37

  • @centermid7mb
    @centermid7mb 3 роки тому

    I can relate to that reference to distance and the further away one is the better it looks. I'm the same way. From across a crowded room and I look great!

  • @yodasrest6138
    @yodasrest6138 3 роки тому +1

    Looks good sam, your videos are awesome dude. They really chill me out.... appreciate your content like this, I like watching you work on the boats too!!

  • @Dbbg439
    @Dbbg439 3 роки тому +7

    Sam. I wish you were my bud. Your living the dream.

    • @loadedhog1135
      @loadedhog1135 3 роки тому +1

      @rhY - David just made a heartfelt comment and you feel its appropriate to correct his English or typo? This channel is too classy for that self-righteousness.

  • @melinda5777
    @melinda5777 3 роки тому

    Enjoyed watching you figuring it out. I like it!

  • @billwilliams9527
    @billwilliams9527 3 роки тому

    Well done Sam. Fun watching you work and sail.

  • @wallacerotternaut
    @wallacerotternaut 3 роки тому +1

    I LOVED this video! Great work! I’m totally inspired to build something using these methods. Do more!

  • @dkastop
    @dkastop 3 роки тому

    Hey Sam, I love the dodger and your connection plan. Sturdy and removable.

  • @davidbolduc828
    @davidbolduc828 3 роки тому +1

    I have been enjoying your build. Btw, you might consider using just 1/4" acrylic or lexan for the windows which is more than strong enough to take on any sea. It will also save you money and weight aloft. You can cut the windows yourself using a saber saw and fine tooth blade. Just remember to spray a little water on the cut as you go along to prevent the blade from melting into the plastic and sticking.

  • @josephlai9759
    @josephlai9759 3 роки тому

    Wow! That is a very nice construct. Thanks for sharing.

  • @musicisbrilliant
    @musicisbrilliant Рік тому

    That is so beautiful. Absolutely love this!

  • @SkylersRants
    @SkylersRants 3 роки тому +1

    You are absolutely fearless.
    Sometimes fear is a good thing! :)
    I look forward to seeing how this comes out. And how long it lasts.

    • @helmrichharms2225
      @helmrichharms2225 3 роки тому

      When covered completely with epoxy it will last forever

  • @davidc6510
    @davidc6510 3 роки тому

    Zip ties and a little epoxy .... now that is Sam Holmes Sailing.... Awesome! I would have expected some pads on the forward side of the dodger as well... Maybe you added them later. Great video Sam. Thanks for sharing!

  • @magdakaniewski
    @magdakaniewski 3 роки тому +1

    I say If it looks good from 10 yards out for 10 seconds it's alright. Great dodger. I will be buidling one for my halcyon 27. Plan is to make a top that hinges or comes off when at anchor

  • @tommypetraglia4688
    @tommypetraglia4688 3 роки тому

    Good shape and proportions.. looks just right. Gonna work out real fine. That's the result of rolling it over and over in your head for quite some time.
    Retired carpenter cabinetmaker shipwright and rigger here with a couple of queries.
    No marine grade ply or perhaps honeycomb fglass panel to conserve weight?
    Looks like you've buried your winches. I'd say move them but they're on pedestals. I guess since you're handy with glass you could build up new mountings.
    Cutout for the halyards led back to the spinlocks.
    As far as your access stairs, a fine bit of carpentry. I was surprised how many guys never grasped the full use of the framing square and the ergonomics of maintianing rise and run
    I mentioned in the previous vid with the stairs in background to consider at least a handrail down one side, but seeing it in use, may I suggest turning it alongside with a square landing at top and a railing around and down one side. This way you reduce the risk off tumbling down when stepping onto the stairs from the boat. Upland down nice and safe
    My last stint was as a union laborer, tending masons doing commercial brick and block and whoo boy did we do a lot of safety, so much so I said what the heck and got my OSHA 30 hour certificate.
    Here's the thing, when I broke in 1980, safety practices were none existent. We'd hang sidewall brackets and throw up one 2 x 12 to install windows and hang cornice. No time for making it safe, just get it done.
    Then one job I had the good fortune to work for a builder and be pared with his old time mechanic. We spent one entire day setting the sidewall scaffold with 42" 2 x 4 handrail all around and plywood at each corner... even a work station in the middle of each run, so we could work like gentlemen with every chance to do our best work.
    I was such a different feeling to concentrate more on my work knowing my safety was well planned.
    It was a big house and we were up there for 2 months. It was also much appreciated by the roofers, the flashers hanging the copper gutters, painters and even the lightning rod guys.
    So a quick little project will return many fold with days of confidence.
    Let me say this, through a lifetime of unfortunate consequences I have was made homeless through being permanently disabled way too early in life. And though now housed in a good situation I lost all my tools, not to mention my basement workshop and my shade tree setup.
    I know envy is not a good thing but I find myself silently jealous of you and the opportunities you've created for yourself and dreams realized. Shop, boat and ocean crossings. What more could a fellow want... besides perhaps a loyal dog and or a mellow cat
    Peace bro. Thanks for the armchair wanderings

  • @mattsiegel9876
    @mattsiegel9876 3 роки тому +1

    Another great episode. I love the workshop setup you have. It also must be nice to have some help nearby.

  • @dwaynedunnick3240
    @dwaynedunnick3240 3 роки тому

    Great job Sam ,always an inspiration. Thanks for sharing.
    Be safe and good luck with the refit 🌞⛵

  • @AndyUK-Corrival
    @AndyUK-Corrival 3 роки тому

    Looks great Sam, I want to build one on my Rival 32. You have a great workshop and having the boat right next door makes huge difference. Really enjoy your videos. Andy UK

  • @swissyodelbear
    @swissyodelbear 3 роки тому

    nice job Sam, looks very nice and suits the lines of the boat, then a soft spray hood from the hard dodger to the rear davit dingy hoists/autopilot frame for a nice cosy warm area when in dock or when in extended irons while grilling fish on the external stainless grill.......keep it up......

  • @tonydebruyne257
    @tonydebruyne257 3 роки тому +2

    Awesome man, you are a real inspiration.

  • @dowser81
    @dowser81 3 роки тому

    What a legend Sam I love it I have been thinking of doing the exact same thing for my boat once my fabric spray hood has perished 👍🏾

  • @weedknoll
    @weedknoll 3 роки тому +2

    "Bout a 20 foot back project" haha! Looks nice from my house!

  • @FeelItRising
    @FeelItRising 3 роки тому +31

    people spend ages making these spanning many videos. Sam: Hold my beer

  • @Inlovewithsailing
    @Inlovewithsailing 3 роки тому

    Good job Sam. The zip tie tip is great idea.

  • @stephenkillick5812
    @stephenkillick5812 3 роки тому

    Most people I know would not even consider such a project without detailed plans. Your can do attitude is inspiring to watch. I loved the way you built your own dinghy - also without plans or a kit. Only thing that would have made it indestructible is to have covered the canvas skin with fibre glass. If you want the windows to open, maybe get some sort of hinge at the top of the glass with a hinge al a a 30's or 40's car?

  • @YamatoCannon985
    @YamatoCannon985 3 роки тому +1

    Really enjoyed the music on this video. Love the vids!

  • @rayadkins6429
    @rayadkins6429 3 роки тому

    Be nice to see another tour of your shop improvements.

  • @jamesking5665
    @jamesking5665 3 роки тому

    had a great cape dory 22, The Funky Dory. I put an Atomic 4 in it with a folding prop. Sold it and bought a '63 Pearson Triton, #322. I built a dodger like this for mine last summer all out of fiberglass.

  • @alanduffy7993
    @alanduffy7993 3 роки тому

    Great videos, learning plenty of good tips. That was a neat trick to use the plastic wrap to hold the glass in....(I am storing that idea for future use)

    • @samholmessailing
      @samholmessailing  3 роки тому

      It didn’t work that great actually. ended up grinding a lot of that glass away. It might have worked better if we had wrapped the glass better and rounded the edges more. Maybe peel ply would have helped too.

  • @mohamedouarsafi3923
    @mohamedouarsafi3923 3 роки тому

    Good luck with your new undertaking Sam!

  • @careychen7275
    @careychen7275 3 роки тому

    I built a hard dodger on a Nordica 20 from lexan, aluminum and micarta. I wanted to use materials that by themselves would be low maintenance and UV resistant. The hole thing was bolted together. In retrospect the lexan is not as UV resistant as plexi, goes yellow after about 8 to 10 years. Just wanted to mention that there is a West System 610 gap filling epoxy that comes in a caulking tube it's designed to be used like caulking and comes so thick that it stays where ever you put it. It cures like regular epoxy too. Used it to join and filet the panels of micarta inside the icebox I built.

  • @marczegers7110
    @marczegers7110 3 роки тому

    My 91 year old uncle, who won a world championship in the flying Dutchman btw, always says to me when building things to " trust your eye" . This project definately stands up to the "eye test"

  • @thomasweatherford5125
    @thomasweatherford5125 3 роки тому

    I’ll say it - there’s nothing or guy Sam can’t do. He can sail, build anything, redo a freaking sailboat, and grows a magnificent beard! Looking forward to your next adventure chum.

  • @niborselrahc4651
    @niborselrahc4651 3 роки тому

    Man you can sure see the Alberg 30 in her. I have one and I think this may be my next boat.

  • @Not_Sure_
    @Not_Sure_ 2 роки тому

    That's a very good setup.

  • @daversj
    @daversj 3 роки тому

    If you put a bottom flange on the inside of the dogger you can bolt it on from underneath. Just put the lock nut on top and bolt through the bottom. A wide flange makes it easy to waterproof with a compressing seal weatherstrip. Cover the deck with plastic tape and laminate the flange in place for a nice fit.

  • @pauldionne2884
    @pauldionne2884 3 роки тому +3

    Yeah, a grab rail on that dodger will be a great safety feature.

  • @paultarditi908
    @paultarditi908 3 роки тому +1

    Seems like some sort of upgrade in the video production, Sam. Nice!! Before we moved from NJ to Charleston, SC 4 years ago we had looked into Oriental, but there weren't enough employment opportunities for us due to the slow recovery from the previous hurricane. People were either retired and fairly well off on pensions or were struggling to get by. Loved the area though.

  • @BreezyRider66
    @BreezyRider66 3 роки тому

    This is great Sam, I've wanted to make one for my Bowman 26 for some time and after watching this it's exactly how I'll do mine, I might have the sides and top come back a little bit further than you have. Thanks for the inspiration & all the best...

  • @GrampalettasCamp
    @GrampalettasCamp 3 роки тому

    Sam, you could put a lip around the dodger top and catch rainwater, funnel down a hole and tube to water tank.

  • @davehill7484
    @davehill7484 3 роки тому +1

    Great looking dodger , I always thought a nice sleek looking dodger added a nice look to a boat but hey, that’s just my opinion 👌👍👍⛵️⛵️🥃🥃

  • @hansjensen7823
    @hansjensen7823 3 роки тому

    Enjoying your refit videos Sam!

  • @sailingbrewer
    @sailingbrewer 3 роки тому

    I'm going threw the same thing right now. I'm planning on moving my traveler behind the tiller too. Easier access to the sheet and traveler less places for water to get threw. It also gave me more flexible for where the dodger layout.

    • @samholmessailing
      @samholmessailing  3 роки тому

      I figure ill just reach around for the traveler. I like it in front i think.

    • @Sailspirit99
      @Sailspirit99 3 роки тому

      I'm hoping to route the traveller ropes through the front of my dodger (design phase atm), along with main sheet, main halyard, topping lift, with the rest at the mast. (S&S 30, similar to the Yankee 30). Loved the front "visor" in the cardboard design. Sam, why did you decide not to do that? Also, if not solar, then possible rainwater catcher? Fair winds, Elaine

  • @larrycarpenter9899
    @larrycarpenter9899 3 роки тому

    Good work Sam. I like how it looks

  • @vinceglauser4770
    @vinceglauser4770 3 роки тому

    you're an excellent craftsman.

  • @normanmerrill1241
    @normanmerrill1241 3 роки тому

    Well done...steady she goes..

  • @thepigwillfly5869
    @thepigwillfly5869 3 роки тому +8

    As Mads on "Sail Life" would say, "I will design this using CAD (Cardboard Aided Design)".

  • @dp5383
    @dp5383 3 роки тому

    That is one artful dodger.

  • @danielprinsloo2917
    @danielprinsloo2917 3 роки тому

    well done Sam - good work

  • @stormynights6754
    @stormynights6754 3 роки тому +1

    Great video makes me want to go build one for my boat really like your channel

  • @julianbatcheler9970
    @julianbatcheler9970 3 роки тому

    I build a lot of things myself and it’s great to watch someone else who is more resourceful than me at work... LOL :)
    Plan to get a boat and join the floating world in the next few years. Hope to meet you out there one day.

  • @wallyklw5
    @wallyklw5 3 роки тому +6

    You are the Andrew Camarata of sailboating

    • @Meshedupatx
      @Meshedupatx 3 роки тому +1

      Good call! Andrew Camerata is great !

  • @legend343
    @legend343 3 роки тому

    Well done matey.. looking good.!

  • @mosquitoman3160
    @mosquitoman3160 3 роки тому +7

    Hey Sam , I just found you about two weeks ago and have caught up already with almost all the videos. I am a avid boater and Own a boat and rv storage in Holden Beach NC . I plan on purchasing my first sail boat here in 2021 and love all of your videos and learn from your experience and expertise. I have never sailed and do not know much but hope to learn here in the near future. If you ever need temporary storage or any other help while near Holden Beach Oak island area please reach out to me.

    • @SoundzAlive1
      @SoundzAlive1 2 роки тому

      You will find this site great to learn most sailing skills. André in Sydney
      ua-cam.com/users/CarpeDiemSailingMagazine

  • @jonathansimmonds5784
    @jonathansimmonds5784 3 роки тому

    Speechless! Probably best I stay that way.....

  • @TFrakesTanks
    @TFrakesTanks 3 роки тому

    “The kind of project you look at from a distance” Hahahaha 😂
    Also I love this channel, never been on a sail boat or really know much but this channel is awesome. Been watching for like 2 years now and am still just amazed. Haha

  • @mboyer68
    @mboyer68 3 роки тому

    Great job! Love the sailing diy stuff!!

  • @martinschulman1751
    @martinschulman1751 3 роки тому

    Beautiful job.

  • @mfbsail
    @mfbsail 3 роки тому

    Dodgers are always before and after. When you didn't have one you realize how much more comfortable, dry, and safety with a good one. Staying warm and dry...key.

  • @j.s_cabin
    @j.s_cabin 3 роки тому

    Nice, i have think same thing. Hardtop and big windows. I'v got a panels up behind, so fabric sunshelter is easy install berween them. Please, more detals and lots of episode this projekt
    Jari from Finland

  • @bterwin9887
    @bterwin9887 3 роки тому

    I evolve my garage gym with the same approach as Sam to his sailboat. Make it happen with what you’ve got.

  • @straygator2481
    @straygator2481 3 роки тому

    Awesome work Sam!

  • @laddlester6498
    @laddlester6498 3 роки тому

    totally badass build brother!

  • @tpower7382
    @tpower7382 3 роки тому

    great video, thanks for posting.

  • @p_noc
    @p_noc 3 роки тому

    I love the look of it. Makes the boat look more like a spaceship, and all modifications should be judged by that standard.

  • @christianvonleckstergaard1301
    @christianvonleckstergaard1301 3 роки тому

    Thanks for the nice video. Comming along great, nice with the workshop. Stay safe ;O)

  • @heavyglassglass
    @heavyglassglass 3 роки тому +3

    0:57 Croc Crew where you at

  • @peterjohnstaples
    @peterjohnstaples 3 роки тому +1

    Where you needed the camber the most on the roof was at the rear where you exit the companionway and blow me down you made it flat.

  • @doninhawaii4433
    @doninhawaii4433 3 роки тому

    Can't wait for part 2 Sam!! 👍🤙😃💯👊

  • @franktartan6808
    @franktartan6808 3 роки тому

    Sam gets it done!!!