Thanks, Chadi. Aged 16, I first started judo in 1959 under Sensei Masutaru (Smiler) O’Tani, 7th Dan, and continued with him for nearly three years. During that time Smiler brought along, on two occasions, his sons, Robin and Billy, who were great stylists and a pleasure to watch during Randori! Later, he also arranged for us to receive a lesson from his friend, Sensei Kenshiro Abbé, 8th Dan. What an honour all round! Whilst reminiscing about Smiler, I must mention a great piece of universal wisdom that Sensei O’Tani personally gave to me after he had reduced me to jelly using Kesa Katame variations one-to-one. Exhausted , I asked him ‘That was great, Smiler, how doe you get out of it? “ To which he replied “Aah! Well you don’t get into it!” Great advice for Life. Great memories. If only we could go back in time......
My theory is that after years of kicking ass, seasoned veterans turned to aikido as a way of finding peace and harmony. That's why so many early aikido masters had extensive fight resumes. Only problem was that subsequent generations of aikido students didn't have that extensive martial arts background, only relying on aikido. It's almost like aikido is PhD level philosophical work being taught to high school freshmen who never even grasped the basics of combat
I dont . Shioda wrote that his Judo didnt helped when he tried against Ueshiba and it was rather hindering learning Aikido. And Shioda the 3 Dan in Judo and lot of expirience in Judo fights. And he was by fare not the only one.
nah, many joined when young; O-sensei intrigued them due to his martial arts prowess ... like any other teacher you follow. They recognized that aikido enhanced their skills. How do I know? I met several in Japan. But I don't want to discourage you from theorizing! Go for it. Keep searching for answers.
I met him in València in 1970. He came to teach Judo and also gave some Iaido exhibitions. He spoke in a mix of English, French and Japaneese and told a lot of stories about the war. His Judo technique was just amazing! There are some pictures of him by that time.
Thank you for the finely researched and comprehensive content that you provide. I especially appreciate your features on the true great masters of Judo who are so much more than just sports icons. Abbe-sensei is one of Judo's legendary fighters and teachers.🥋🙏 It is a crime that most millennial judoka have absolutely no idea who he is.😡 I am delighted that your video helps keep his memory alive.
My Sensei Peter Monkman was a student of Sensei Kenshiro Abbe and spoke of his abilities with awe. Being both ex military men and small of stature Abbe and Pete became quite close as teacher and student. Pete accommodated Abbe at his home in Hatfield in the early days and helped him get settled in the UK. Pete taught Judo, Budo & Jiu Jitsu in Hatfield, Herts', UK from the 1960's until the early 2000's. Abbe sensei's legacy is still flowing strong in the UK.
Abe Kenshiro Kyu Shin Do imparted his skills unto Reg Bleakman between 1956 and 1964 at the Birmingham full time Dojo Kyu Shin Kan school of Judò, with its Aikidō and Kendò sections. A good number of Japanese Sensei with disciplines conducive to the KSK tended and taught with great enthusiasm, the Birmingham students we’re very appreciative and duly respectful at all times 🇬🇧🍻
I was taught Ju Jitsu by a student of Abbe. I got halfway to black belt. As for judo I got to orange belt. Both were from the International Bushido Association
Another interesting video! The stories I've read about O-sensei was that he loved and invited challenge from people, specifically thinking of Koichi Tohei's story who started Aikido as a black belt in Judo I believe, and Morihei Ueshiba invited him on the mat and asked him to throw him, only to find the same feeling of not knowing how he was on the ground. So I could see how people would see that as arrogance more than confidence/openness at that time. As you said, I think many Aikidoka of today forget that O'Sensei and many of his students were open to challenges and took them frequently. Maybe they just need to get re-introduced to their roots. :) Thanks for sharing!
According to Kimura's autobiography “ Waga Judo (My Judo)”, Kimura has 4 losses in his career. Abe defeated Kimura by decision on 1936 May 31. The other 3 losses were by Ippon. In Spring 1935, Ryouji Miyajima of Meiji University defeated Kimura by Ippon (Harai-makikomi). In May 1935, Ken-ichirou Oosawa reversed Kimura's Oosotogari, slammed Kimura's head onto the floor, and rendered Kimura unconcious. In Fall 1935, Hideo Yamamoto defeated Kimura by Ippon (Ko-uchigari). Throughout Kimura's career, Oosawa is the only man who made Kimura unconcious. Kimura later had rematches with Oosawa, Yamamoto, and Abe, and beat them all. Later, Kimura trounced Oosawa, Yamamoto, and Abe. Kimura met Oosawa at the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Dojo. Kimura threw Oosawa for Ippon with ease. Kimura did randori with Abe at Kodokan. Kimura slammed Abe onto the wall 11 times and onto the floor 6 times. Kimura had a rematch with Yamamoto at Mitsubishi Dojo in Tokyo. Kimura defeated Yamamoto by Ude-garami.
@@Chadi Sure. judoinfo.com/kimura3/ for more info. judoinfo.com/kimura2/ This translation was created by me in 2000. I used to be known as pdeking at the time, and was the most hated man in the bjj community for debunking fake claims made by Helio Gracie and his sons, Rorion, Rickson, Royler, and Royce.
a side note of random info: Kenshiro Abbe was also the teacher of one Peter Thornley (when Peter trained to be on the British Olympic Judo team). Then, Peter lost half his index finger in a work related accident (effecting his grabbing ability in Judo training). After the accident, he was unable/unsuitable to continue training for the Olympic team. So, Peter donned a Kendo uniform and took the name Kendo Nagasaki. And then, became an icon in the 'campy' British Pro-Wrestling scene :) fyi - there was (later) a second wrestler called Kendo Nagasaki (in the US). He 'lifted' the name from Peter and ran with it in the US (sadly he passed away recently). But Peter (now 79), he became a Zen Buddhist and now teaches Zen meditation (on his large English country estate). He also teaches and hosts Japanese tea ceremonies (in full Kendo uniform) and ran a care home for the mentally ill. Funny how things turn out :)
In the 80's in Milan Master Abbe teached to MAster Cesare Barioli as well , mainly Judo and Kyushin-do Kenjutsu. He liked whiskey and playing Go as well if I am not mistaken. His favourite throw was Tai-Otoshi. Unfortunatey I never knew him personally but this was told me by Master Cesare Barioli himself and his pupils, of which my teacher as well. In Milan a monthly report called Kyushindo was published by Barioli and his Busen dojo during the 90's
My teacher from 1957 Kenshiro Abbe Sensei was in Japan in the 1980s - he died in 1985 - he did not drink whisky - there is no such thing as KyuShinDo Kenjutsu - KSD is a theory not a MA. - I was with Sensei until he left the UK, I am sickened by the misuse of ` KyuShinDo` - It sounds very Japanese, there are now KSD Karate -KSD Aikido - no such thing, this is an abuse of Abbe Sensei. Abbe Sensei's best student in Italy was my good friend Elio Lamaga.
@@henryellis1358 If kyushindo is a theory than you should be able to apply it to all martial arts of the ways.If it´s a philosophy than abbe saying my kendo is kyushindo kendo would not be to farfetched. it would just be him applying the princaples he learned in Judo in everything he does.Sounds pretty japanese to me
From what I can tell Ueshiba became pacifist after the American occupation not before. People seem to forget that he was a career army combative instructor and became a farmer and martial arts teacher after retiring not before.
Thank-you for sharing this very well produced and researched video! I'm a former student of Shotokan who unfortunately had to give it up in my mid-thirties due to back problems. Very few people are capable of mastering even one martial art in this lifetime-and I have immense respect for those people. However, what Abe Sensei accomplished in his life is incredible. I'm surprised I never heard of him! Just discovered your channel. Great job, Chadi!
@@Chadi My pleasure, Chadi, if I may address you by that name. I just found your channel, and as a former practisioner of traditional martial arts, I found it fascinating. This may sound a little crass as technically it is business, but I enjoy helping people of good will in mutually beneficial projects. I just shared your video on a new platform called Webtalk. It is a rapidly growing platform that in a few years may well overtake Facebook. It is actually a combination of Facebook (and others) and Linkedin in terms of usage. The only difference is they pay you to do the same things you do on other social media-including posting and sharing videos like yours. I shared your video and recommended my followers like and subscribe to your UA-cam channel. I hope I was successful in that request. Please check out the platform at webtalk.co/james.bernardi. Like Facebook and other social media sites, it's free to join and you can make another income stream especially if you can suggest your UA-cam subscribers join, and they can continue similarly. No, it's NOT network marketing, but if you do subscribe-again-for free-you can message me directly with any further questions. Even if you're not interested, I'll still be looking forward to your UA-cam postings!
Thank you for this video. Very well explained. Regarding Morihei Ueshiba, he was a man with virtues and defects. There are other moments of his life when he demonstrated a lot of fire and temper, like when he was traveling with Onisaburo Deguchi, and he responded the gunfire from a group of Mongolians, riding his horse against them and making them to scape. He did it alone. There are other moments like that during his life.
@@Chadi about the story with Abbe, I presume Abbe was just caught by surprise, never expecting an old man having the courage to perform a technique against him. That's what Hikitsuchi used to say about Ueshiba's Aikido, anticipation faster than speed of light, when you just perceive the intention. When everything is pre arranged like in a tournament, that's impossible. Abbe was probably impressed by that anticipation. I had few experiences like that in real life when I lived in South America. Aikido is a misunderstood martial art, pretty bad for tournaments in case you face profesional fighters, very useful for unexpected dangerous situations in the street. I made a video about it, based on my personal experience. Just another point of view.
@@Chadi you are Wellcome. Just be aware that you could enter into a very toxic environment. There are too many haters and lovers in the Aikido world. Some people thinks is Bullshido, other people see it as a cult, where only few masters are doing the real Aikido of the founder. My advice, don't go to any of those paths. I prefer to see Aikido as an hollystic cultural martial art, where everybody can enjoying part of the traditional heritage of the Japanese worrier tradition, adapted to modern life. It depends how serious do you practice to become useful as self defence, or it can be just very good for fitness and cardio, or even to develop manners and virtues. The moment it becomes a cult or a ninja worrier mentality is when it becomes toxic.
I've been skeptical of Aikido for a long time but I'm trying to find contexts where it makes sense. I'm beginning to see Aikido as a sport in which older martial artists who could get hurt doing throws or fast powerful movements can always teach as Tories. The lack of pressure testing and the hierarchical, competition-free system also ensures no student humiliates the master by beating him and that wrist and arm locks, which are highly effective against non-resisting opponents can flourish. This said, I think it still shouldn't be marketed as more powerful than judo (and the story with the finger in the video is just too convenient and Japanese anime-like to be believable IMO) and that wrist and arm locks can still lead to injuries to the Ukes and don't offer much stable control.
Well, whether or not the train story is true it's a documented fact that Abbe, with all his many accomplishments, thought Aikido worth 10 years of his life to study. I trained for a few years under direct students of Abbe (those cocky London boys Chadi refers to), and I can assure you there was nothing whimsical at all about their Aikido. What's on offer today as Aikido may be a pale shadow of it's former self, I don't know I stopped training a long tome ago; but doesn't mean it was always like that.
Any information on when he came to the uk? As far as I’m aware he started the Kyushindo system and heavily influenced George Mayo who started MayoShinDo - my style of karate.
Good work! Kimura sensei is reported to have remarked that fighting Abbe sensei was like "fighting the wind." Opining on the morality of others detracts a bit, for me. Morality is like technology. It evolves. Holding historical figures from other times and cultures to our personal morals and ethics seems pointless - short of actual and obvious crimes against humanity. They are people of the culture of their times and like every human, in any age, flawed at numerous levels. The story of the meeting of Ueshiba sensei and Kenshiro Abbe is true. All the details? Who knows? But I have met enough people (trained in other arts) who actually touched O-sensei who have said it was mind blowing. Morihei Ueshiba was extremely cocky and arrogant? Hmmm. Cocksure arrogance and an indictment of O-sensei's personal philosophy (as it is described to us by others) is a mighty leap to make off the two book quotes. To me, having lived and trained in Japan for years, here's my impression. Young kid comes in and says aggressively "I'm so great". To a much older male? In Confucian based culture? That is incredibly rude. Unbelievably. "OK, show me" (with a smile). It is believable and there is compassion in not teaching him a harsher lesson. For me, I wasn't there. They met; O-sensei impressed him is enough. Afterwards, Abbe sensei followed Ueshiba sensei for 10 years and then he introduced Aikido to the United Kingdom in 1955, which is a clear message of what he thought of his teacher. Abbe sensei was involved in Chiba sensei (Chiba Kazuo, 千葉和雄 ) going to the UK in 1966 as the first official representative from the Aikikai Foundation. Keep up your good work!
Having lived and worked in Japan for several years, among the WWII generation, I've met some wonderful people, and I've met some people that I feel were unfortunately missed by the war crimes tribunals! I'd like to think that similar to Ueshiba O-Sensei after the Russo-Japanese War, Abe Sensei had a similar change of heart as to jingoistic pro-war philosophies vs. striving for peace and understanding. Also, even if he had been a pacifist pre-war, he couldn't refuse service in the IJA. I doubt they even had the equivalent of conscientious objectors. Either way, Abe Sensei made a great contribution to the spread of Japanese Budo to the world. I still can't believe I never heard of him! Please everyone, if you enjoyed this, like and share Chadi's work. He does a great job!
Do a take down and pound them, and they are all out. No matter all the Aikido or Chi Na, a average blue belt in bjj would dominate them in minutes. There are plenty of vids on youtube which proves that.
Thank you for your well researched video. I would like your opinion on the Gracie JiuJitsu is just Judo controversy as you mentioned the Gracie vs Kimura match. One side's argument is that GJJ/BJJ comes from Professor Kano and the Kodokan. I disagree and say that both GJJ/BJJ and the Kosen branch of the Kodokan both stem from Mataemon Tanabe and his ground fighting specialization school. The Gracie's received their training via Maeda who although being a Kodokan Blackbelt appeared to favor the Ground fighting training of Tanabe. Tanabe and his students taught a lot of the Kodokan's throwing specialization Judoka's. The rumor is that Tanabe's school was forced under the Kodokan Umbrella after Kano's representatives were defeated by Tanabe and his students in "friendly" competition matches between the two schools. If that was the case then the Kodokan is not the source of GJJ/BJJ. My opinion is based on multiple sources of evidence. If I am incorrect I am not too proud to say I am wrong but based on the information I have researched I believe I am correct.
I would say the old Oda footage was much like gjj (i strongly suggest you watch it), judo had a surge of ground grapplers at the turn of the century, and if you have the self defense unit of Rickson, where he teaches everything he knows, it's pretty much like old Kodokan Judo, the evolution/separation from old Judo really started 30 years ago as Drysdale put it, and also the new leg lock game is another evolution in the game that is pretty recent and the invention of 10th planet system and the new guards. Pulling guard sweeping leg locking are old, Tanabe pulled guard and leg locked Yuji Hirooka and broke his leg in the 1800s.
Tanabe taught the Kodokan but never became a Kano apprentice, and also Isogai put in a lot of ground work into the Kodokan curriculum in order to beat Tanabe (they had a trilogy), from what i have, the old Helio repertoire of techniques is a representation of old kodokan judo where they wanted to go to the ground.
@@Chadi - I am not denying that the Kodokan had a rudimentary system of newaza skills. But at which point did they aquire those skills, pre-Tanabe or post-Tanabe? Here are a few things I would like you to consider. 1 - Kano learned his Jiujitsu from several JIujitsu schools, all of which were Stand up and or kneeling style schools. 2 - The Koryo school was the main basis of his throwing techniques 3 - Kano abhorred Newaza, calling it school yard wrestling. Which makes me believe he did not emphasize it in his curricullum. 4 - When his students had a competition with Tanabe's school, the Judoka's were easily defeated once the match went to the ground. Which makes me believe that if the Judoka's had any ground skills at all, it was rudimentary at best. 5 - Kano changed the rules to award an instant victory to the fighter making a single clean throw, thereby giving his students the advantage in the matches. Not cool. 6 - Kano had a lot of students in high positions that were police, political and military. He had a lot of influence in his community. The rumor was that he forced Tanabe's school under the Kodokan umbrella. If they refused, he could have them closed down as happened to many Jiu jitsu schools after they got a bad reputation for injuries. Tanabe would not have been treated as an apprentice, rather more likely an instructor level or consultant in his specialty, Newaza. One of possibly many teachers that Kano had on his teaching staff made up of other Jiujitsu-ka. It was rumored that Tanabe was not very happy with this situation and I am sure that he would not have entrusted all his knowledge to the Kodokan thereby making their knowledge of his skills insufficient. 7 - I too have seen Oda's video on UA-cam and I happened to notice that Kano's picture was not on the dais behind Oda when he was being interviewed, signifying his status and honor as founder . He has taken pictures alongside the Jiujitsu community but the fact that the Kosen community does not acknowledge Kano as their founder has a lot to say. I would really like to know who's pictures are on the dais because that would prove my theory that Tanabe was their founder if he is the one who's picture is on the dais. 8 - It would also prove why Maeda (who although being a Kodokan blackbelt, was also a student of Tanabe's students) did not teach the Gracies that the Kodokan was the source of their knowledge. It seems that Maeda left that part out and they the Gracies had no allegiance to the Kodokan or had any knowledge of the Kodokan at all. 9 - Another group in Brazil, the Mehdi Judo group which was operating around the same time as Carlos and Helio Gracie did acknowledge their connection to the Kodokan. So the Kodokan lineage would have been taught to the Gracie's as well if Maeda chose to do so , and he did not. To be continued.
Chadi with all due respect theres more than one way to look at the meeting between ueshiba and Abe. This meeting is a type camaraderie. A way to feel each others strength. To come to appreciate each other more closely. Its well known that it was nearly impossible to apply pinning techniques or off balance ueshiba in anyway. Ueshiba probably could see the strength and martial veracity in Abe and wanted to acknowledge Abe in respect of that. Arrogance no. It would have been arrogant to suggest Shia. Or that ueshiba could beat Abe in Shia. That would be arrogant.
@@Chadi agreed. I love your materials. I have some info for you on the different applications of honati yoshin ryu and daito ryu as per aikido. I'll send it your way within 48 hours
Interesting history, but I don't believe so much the story with the finger, probably an urban legend among the aikido schools(sory if I am killing the romance of the story) . Seems that inside aikido remained a nostalgic memory of Japan's lost pride after the war , if you check with shintoism its like the pagan version of Japanese religion, with spirits, fairies, giants etc. , normally paganism comes along with unreasonable nationalism beliefs, I don't know if that made him leave those judoka hippies and go for traditional Japanese MAs he lived like a real samurai, the reason for dieing alone after a successful career is probably because he was stuck with traditions so much ppl started to cannot stand him as he grew old. I don't know just guessing may The Lord forgive him! 😂 I was hoping for footage of a fight with Kimura or something.......
I too doubt the finger story, but yeah I tried to find the kimura fight but it was in 1935, video wasn't that popular yet at least not in the east to film teenagers fight.
Wait, that's around the time that Ad Santel (Adolf Ernst), a catch wrestler, was defeating students of the Kodokan Judo school. I wonder if there is any correlation with this ban and the "embarrassment" the Elites running those schools felt in being defeated by a Western style art? Therefore making it less effective. (Or threatened by the rising popularity of Western Style wrestling among the Japanese public?) Edit: The history of 1920's Japan helps as the government was giving way to an increased Hyper-Nationalism movement particularly in their institutions.
No he was famous before that. Gracie wanted to challenge him because Kimura was the top dog and he wanted to prove the effectiveness of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Kimura said "No your not good enough. I'll send my number 3 guy". Whom Gracie beat. Then Kimura said "I'll send my number 2 guy" who was also beat. So Kimura finally accepted his challenge and beat him, Gracie refused to tap so his shoulder was broken with the shoulder lock, which is why in BJJ the shoulder lock is referred to as a "Kimura". Where did you get your information?
@@philliprobinson129 Not what I was saying but I see what you mean. The story as I understand it is he sent his top students. So his number 2 wouldn't be the number 2 Judoka overall, he just sent his top two students. That's my understanding anyways. Sorry for any confusion.
If you want to read more, links are in the description.
Please note Abe , not Abbe, that has different characters
Thanks, Chadi.
Aged 16, I first started judo in 1959 under Sensei Masutaru (Smiler) O’Tani, 7th Dan, and continued with him for nearly three years. During that time Smiler brought along, on two occasions, his sons, Robin and Billy, who were great stylists and a pleasure to watch during Randori!
Later, he also arranged for us to receive a lesson from his friend, Sensei Kenshiro Abbé, 8th Dan. What an honour all round! Whilst reminiscing about Smiler, I must mention a great piece of universal wisdom that Sensei O’Tani personally gave to me after he had reduced me to jelly using Kesa Katame variations one-to-one. Exhausted , I asked him ‘That was great, Smiler, how doe you get out of it? “ To which he replied “Aah! Well you don’t get into it!” Great advice for Life. Great memories. If only we could go back in time......
My theory is that after years of kicking ass, seasoned veterans turned to aikido as a way of finding peace and harmony. That's why so many early aikido masters had extensive fight resumes. Only problem was that subsequent generations of aikido students didn't have that extensive martial arts background, only relying on aikido. It's almost like aikido is PhD level philosophical work being taught to high school freshmen who never even grasped the basics of combat
I agree
I dont . Shioda wrote that his Judo didnt helped when he tried against Ueshiba and it was rather hindering learning Aikido. And Shioda the 3 Dan in Judo and lot of expirience in Judo fights. And he was by fare not the only one.
nah, many joined when young; O-sensei intrigued them due to his martial arts prowess ... like any other teacher you follow. They recognized that aikido enhanced their skills. How do I know? I met several in Japan. But I don't want to discourage you from theorizing! Go for it. Keep searching for answers.
The amount of research you put into this video is incredible. Thank you!
Thank you! I'm glad people like out there watch and listen
I met him in València in 1970. He came to teach Judo and also gave some Iaido exhibitions. He spoke in a mix of English, French and Japaneese and told a lot of stories about the war. His Judo technique was just amazing! There are some pictures of him by that time.
That's so amazing! You're a very lucky man
not often envious but .... cool.
Did he speak about Masutaro Ōtani or Gunji Koizumi?
@@finlay1702 I wouldn't know. I was a 10 year-old kid and did no participate in his conversations.
Thank you for the finely researched and comprehensive content that you provide. I especially appreciate your features on the true great masters of Judo who are so much more than just sports icons.
Abbe-sensei is one of Judo's legendary fighters and teachers.🥋🙏
It is a crime that most millennial judoka have absolutely no idea who he is.😡
I am delighted that your video helps keep his memory alive.
Thank you Jun
My Sensei Peter Monkman was a student of Sensei Kenshiro Abbe and spoke of his abilities with awe. Being both ex military men and small of stature Abbe and Pete became quite close as teacher and student. Pete accommodated Abbe at his home in Hatfield in the early days and helped him get settled in the UK. Pete taught Judo, Budo & Jiu Jitsu in Hatfield, Herts', UK from the 1960's until the early 2000's. Abbe sensei's legacy is still flowing strong in the UK.
Abe Kenshiro Kyu Shin Do imparted his skills unto Reg Bleakman between 1956 and 1964 at the Birmingham full time Dojo Kyu Shin Kan school of Judò, with its Aikidō and Kendò sections. A good number of Japanese Sensei with disciplines conducive to the KSK tended and taught with great enthusiasm, the Birmingham students we’re very appreciative and duly respectful at all times 🇬🇧🍻
What a great narrative. It describes completely the great man's rise in both skill and intellect. Once again ladd thank you. 👍👊
Thank you for listening
As a over 3 decades Marital Artist I am grateful and impressed with your research and channel 🍻
Thank you so much Andrew this means a lot to me
Thanks for posting this. Very interesting. I am currently doing an interview with a direct student of Abbe.
Wow let me know how it goes
I was taught Ju Jitsu by a student of Abbe. I got halfway to black belt. As for judo I got to orange belt. Both were from the International Bushido Association
Chadi, slowly becoming one of my favourite channels. Love your work.
Thank you so much!!!
Wow anyone beating kimura is easily a legend
Indeed!
Another interesting video! The stories I've read about O-sensei was that he loved and invited challenge from people, specifically thinking of Koichi Tohei's story who started Aikido as a black belt in Judo I believe, and Morihei Ueshiba invited him on the mat and asked him to throw him, only to find the same feeling of not knowing how he was on the ground.
So I could see how people would see that as arrogance more than confidence/openness at that time. As you said, I think many Aikidoka of today forget that O'Sensei and many of his students were open to challenges and took them frequently. Maybe they just need to get re-introduced to their roots. :) Thanks for sharing!
According to Kimura's autobiography “ Waga Judo (My Judo)”, Kimura has 4 losses in his career. Abe defeated Kimura by decision on 1936 May 31. The other 3 losses were by Ippon. In Spring 1935, Ryouji Miyajima of Meiji University defeated Kimura by Ippon (Harai-makikomi). In May 1935, Ken-ichirou Oosawa reversed Kimura's Oosotogari, slammed Kimura's head onto the floor, and rendered Kimura unconcious. In Fall 1935, Hideo Yamamoto defeated Kimura by Ippon (Ko-uchigari). Throughout Kimura's career, Oosawa is the only man who made Kimura unconcious. Kimura later had rematches with Oosawa, Yamamoto, and Abe, and beat them all.
Later, Kimura trounced Oosawa, Yamamoto, and Abe. Kimura met Oosawa at the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Dojo. Kimura threw Oosawa for Ippon with ease. Kimura did randori with Abe at Kodokan. Kimura slammed Abe onto the wall 11 times and onto the floor 6 times. Kimura had a rematch with Yamamoto at Mitsubishi Dojo in Tokyo. Kimura defeated Yamamoto by Ude-garami.
Thank you so much for this! May i report on this?
@@Chadi Sure.
judoinfo.com/kimura3/
for more info.
judoinfo.com/kimura2/
This translation was created by me in 2000. I used to be known as pdeking at the time, and was the most hated man in the bjj community for debunking fake claims made by Helio Gracie and his sons, Rorion, Rickson, Royler, and Royce.
Thank you so much sir
a side note of random info:
Kenshiro Abbe was also the teacher of one Peter Thornley (when Peter trained to be on the British Olympic Judo team).
Then, Peter lost half his index finger in a work related accident (effecting his grabbing ability in Judo training). After the accident, he was unable/unsuitable to continue training for the Olympic team.
So, Peter donned a Kendo uniform and took the name Kendo Nagasaki. And then, became an icon in the 'campy' British Pro-Wrestling scene :)
fyi - there was (later) a second wrestler called Kendo Nagasaki (in the US). He 'lifted' the name from Peter and ran with it in the US (sadly he passed away recently).
But Peter (now 79), he became a Zen Buddhist and now teaches Zen meditation (on his large English country estate). He also teaches and hosts Japanese tea ceremonies (in full Kendo uniform) and ran a care home for the mentally ill.
Funny how things turn out :)
In the 80's in Milan Master Abbe teached to MAster Cesare Barioli as well , mainly Judo and Kyushin-do Kenjutsu. He liked whiskey and playing Go as well if I am not mistaken. His favourite throw was Tai-Otoshi. Unfortunatey I never knew him personally but this was told me by Master Cesare Barioli himself and his pupils, of which my teacher as well. In Milan a monthly report called Kyushindo was published by Barioli and his Busen dojo during the 90's
My teacher from 1957 Kenshiro Abbe Sensei was in Japan in the 1980s - he died in 1985 - he did not drink whisky - there is no such thing as KyuShinDo Kenjutsu - KSD is a theory not a MA. - I was with Sensei until he left the UK, I am sickened by the misuse of ` KyuShinDo` - It sounds very Japanese, there are now KSD Karate -KSD Aikido - no such thing, this is an abuse of Abbe Sensei.
Abbe Sensei's best student in Italy was my good friend Elio Lamaga.
@@henryellis1358 If kyushindo is a theory than you should be able to apply it to all martial arts of the ways.If it´s a philosophy than abbe saying my kendo is kyushindo kendo would not be to farfetched. it would just be him applying the princaples he learned in Judo in everything he does.Sounds pretty japanese to me
Thank you for the history lesson. I always wondered where the KyuShinDo and Abbe name on our British Judo Council patches came from.
Thank you Henry
From what I can tell Ueshiba became pacifist after the American occupation not before. People seem to forget that he was a career army combative instructor and became a farmer and martial arts teacher after retiring not before.
Yes but he was 60 in that alleged incident, he still has some fighting spirit still challenging someone 30 years younger.
Ueshiba never was an army combatives instructor. He became a farmer and martial arts instructor long before WWII.
This is the second video of yours I've watched now Chadi. Your content is fantastic. You've earned yourself another subscriber!
Thank you Chad i truly appreciate it
Thank-you for sharing this very well produced and researched video! I'm a former student of Shotokan who unfortunately had to give it up in my mid-thirties due to back problems. Very few people are capable of mastering even one martial art in this lifetime-and I have immense respect for those people. However, what Abe Sensei accomplished in his life is incredible. I'm surprised I never heard of him! Just discovered your channel. Great job, Chadi!
Thank you James for taking the time and listening
@@Chadi My pleasure, Chadi, if I may address you by that name. I just found your channel, and as a former practisioner of traditional martial arts, I found it fascinating. This may sound a little crass as technically it is business, but I enjoy helping people of good will in mutually beneficial projects. I just shared your video on a new platform called Webtalk. It is a rapidly growing platform that in a few years may well overtake Facebook. It is actually a combination of Facebook (and others) and Linkedin in terms of usage. The only difference is they pay you to do the same things you do on other social media-including posting and sharing videos like yours. I shared your video and recommended my followers like and subscribe to your UA-cam channel. I hope I was successful in that request. Please check out the platform at webtalk.co/james.bernardi. Like Facebook and other social media sites, it's free to join and you can make another income stream especially if you can suggest your UA-cam subscribers join, and they can continue similarly. No, it's NOT network marketing, but if you do subscribe-again-for free-you can message me directly with any further questions. Even if you're not interested, I'll still be looking forward to your UA-cam postings!
Thank you!
Merci Chadi. Thank you for highlighting these great Martial Artists and promoting Judo!
Thank you! Comments like these keep me going
Great video, Thank you
Thank you Mark!
Great video!! thanks Chadi , i really appreciate your videos about old judo/jiu jitsu
Thank you Alain i really appreciate it
MAGNIFICENT!!! Thank you for this.
Thank you for watching
My judo teacher was a student of abe in the uk .
Thanks for the history lesson.
You're welcome
Awesome! Thank you!
Can't believe it only has twelve likes. C'mon guys!!
Haha thank you!
Thank you for this video. Very well explained. Regarding Morihei Ueshiba, he was a man with virtues and defects. There are other moments of his life when he demonstrated a lot of fire and temper, like when he was traveling with Onisaburo Deguchi, and he responded the gunfire from a group of Mongolians, riding his horse against them and making them to scape. He did it alone.
There are other moments like that during his life.
Thank you! Ueshiba was a military man i wouldn't be surprised if he did such things
@@Chadi about the story with Abbe, I presume Abbe was just caught by surprise, never expecting an old man having the courage to perform a technique against him. That's what Hikitsuchi used to say about Ueshiba's Aikido, anticipation faster than speed of light, when you just perceive the intention. When everything is pre arranged like in a tournament, that's impossible. Abbe was probably impressed by that anticipation.
I had few experiences like that in real life when I lived in South America. Aikido is a misunderstood martial art, pretty bad for tournaments in case you face profesional fighters, very useful for unexpected dangerous situations in the street. I made a video about it, based on my personal experience. Just another point of view.
@@Chadi
ua-cam.com/video/xanchf5H-d0/v-deo.html
@@MarioSeoane thank you for this video I'll probably make more content on aikido
@@Chadi you are Wellcome. Just be aware that you could enter into a very toxic environment. There are too many haters and lovers in the Aikido world. Some people thinks is Bullshido, other people see it as a cult, where only few masters are doing the real Aikido of the founder. My advice, don't go to any of those paths. I prefer to see Aikido as an hollystic cultural martial art, where everybody can enjoying part of the traditional heritage of the Japanese worrier tradition, adapted to modern life.
It depends how serious do you practice to become useful as self defence, or it can be just very good for fitness and cardio, or even to develop manners and virtues. The moment it becomes a cult or a ninja worrier mentality is when it becomes toxic.
Great video once again!
Thank you
I think that kimura developed his ne waza style after this fight
What an amazing story enjoyed this video.
Thank you
Keep up the good content :)
Thank you:)
I've been skeptical of Aikido for a long time but I'm trying to find contexts where it makes sense.
I'm beginning to see Aikido as a sport in which older martial artists who could get hurt doing throws or fast powerful movements can always teach as Tories.
The lack of pressure testing and the hierarchical, competition-free system also ensures no student humiliates the master by beating him and that wrist and arm locks, which are highly effective against non-resisting opponents can flourish.
This said, I think it still shouldn't be marketed as more powerful than judo (and the story with the finger in the video is just too convenient and Japanese anime-like to be believable IMO) and that wrist and arm locks can still lead to injuries to the Ukes and don't offer much stable control.
Think fake steven seagal!
Well, whether or not the train story is true it's a documented fact that Abbe, with all his many accomplishments, thought Aikido worth 10 years of his life to study. I trained for a few years under direct students of Abbe (those cocky London boys Chadi refers to), and I can assure you there was nothing whimsical at all about their Aikido. What's on offer today as Aikido may be a pale shadow of it's former self, I don't know I stopped training a long tome ago; but doesn't mean it was always like that.
Any information on when he came to the uk? As far as I’m aware he started the Kyushindo system and heavily influenced George Mayo who started MayoShinDo - my style of karate.
amazing
Waooo tremendo.
Chadi, my first Aikido instructor was taught by Abe. He was also 6th dan Judo. Like you, I am very skeptical of the stories.
6:35 beautiful counter...
Good work! Kimura sensei is reported to have remarked that fighting Abbe sensei was like "fighting the wind." Opining on the morality of others detracts a bit, for me. Morality is like technology. It evolves. Holding historical figures from other times and cultures to our personal morals and ethics seems pointless - short of actual and obvious crimes against humanity. They are people of the culture of their times and like every human, in any age, flawed at numerous levels. The story of the meeting of Ueshiba sensei and Kenshiro Abbe is true. All the details? Who knows? But I have met enough people (trained in other arts) who actually touched O-sensei who have said it was mind blowing. Morihei Ueshiba was extremely cocky and arrogant? Hmmm. Cocksure arrogance and an indictment of O-sensei's personal philosophy (as it is described to us by others) is a mighty leap to make off the two book quotes. To me, having lived and trained in Japan for years, here's my impression. Young kid comes in and says aggressively "I'm so great". To a much older male? In Confucian based culture? That is incredibly rude. Unbelievably. "OK, show me" (with a smile). It is believable and there is compassion in not teaching him a harsher lesson. For me, I wasn't there. They met; O-sensei impressed him is enough. Afterwards, Abbe sensei followed Ueshiba sensei for 10 years and then he introduced Aikido to the United Kingdom in 1955, which is a clear message of what he thought of his teacher. Abbe sensei was involved in Chiba sensei (Chiba Kazuo, 千葉和雄 ) going to the UK in 1966 as the first official representative from the Aikikai Foundation. Keep up your good work!
Thank you for your insight
Having lived and worked in Japan for several years, among the WWII generation, I've met some wonderful people, and I've met some people that I feel were unfortunately missed by the war crimes tribunals! I'd like to think that similar to Ueshiba O-Sensei after the Russo-Japanese War, Abe Sensei had a similar change of heart as to jingoistic pro-war philosophies vs. striving for peace and understanding. Also, even if he had been a pacifist pre-war, he couldn't refuse service in the IJA. I doubt they even had the equivalent of conscientious objectors. Either way, Abe Sensei made a great contribution to the spread of Japanese Budo to the world. I still can't believe I never heard of him! Please everyone, if you enjoyed this, like and share Chadi's work. He does a great job!
I had the opportunity to study under him at the Hut dojo
The master who defeated Kimura
Exactly
I thought Kimura never lost to anyone
Lol
@@counterkidnapping1737 he lost a total of 4 matches in his competitive career.
@@counterkidnapping1737 who'd you you hear that from, the Gracie's? Lol jk
Never try to grab fingers or wrist of Aikido or Chi Na masters. It's like Gordon Ryan tells you to grab his heel.
Do a take down and pound them, and they are all out. No matter all the Aikido or Chi Na, a average blue belt in bjj would dominate them in minutes. There are plenty of vids on youtube which proves that.
GUNJI KOIZUMI Died in a bedside in Putney it was about 1971.RIP.
Thank you Chadi! What music is this that you use in every video?
ua-cam.com/play/PLfP6i5T0-DkJzOOMTlPjCnnyL4cUpvgNu.html
これは合気だ、実践で炸裂している
Thank you for your well researched video. I would like your opinion on the Gracie JiuJitsu is just Judo controversy as you mentioned the Gracie vs Kimura match. One side's argument is that GJJ/BJJ comes from Professor Kano and the Kodokan. I disagree and say that both GJJ/BJJ and the Kosen branch of the Kodokan both stem from Mataemon Tanabe and his ground fighting specialization school. The Gracie's received their training via Maeda who although being a Kodokan Blackbelt appeared to favor the Ground fighting training of Tanabe. Tanabe and his students taught a lot of the Kodokan's throwing specialization Judoka's. The rumor is that Tanabe's school was forced under the Kodokan Umbrella after Kano's representatives were defeated by Tanabe and his students in "friendly" competition matches between the two schools. If that was the case then the Kodokan is not the source of GJJ/BJJ. My opinion is based on multiple sources of evidence. If I am incorrect I am not too proud to say I am wrong but based on the information I have researched I believe I am correct.
I would say the old Oda footage was much like gjj (i strongly suggest you watch it), judo had a surge of ground grapplers at the turn of the century, and if you have the self defense unit of Rickson, where he teaches everything he knows, it's pretty much like old Kodokan Judo, the evolution/separation from old Judo really started 30 years ago as Drysdale put it, and also the new leg lock game is another evolution in the game that is pretty recent and the invention of 10th planet system and the new guards. Pulling guard sweeping leg locking are old, Tanabe pulled guard and leg locked Yuji Hirooka and broke his leg in the 1800s.
Tanabe taught the Kodokan but never became a Kano apprentice, and also Isogai put in a lot of ground work into the Kodokan curriculum in order to beat Tanabe (they had a trilogy), from what i have, the old Helio repertoire of techniques is a representation of old kodokan judo where they wanted to go to the ground.
Check out old judo guards/sweeps
ua-cam.com/video/zTBM-jYJKkI/v-deo.html
@@Chadi - I am not denying that the Kodokan had a rudimentary system of newaza skills. But at which point did they aquire those skills, pre-Tanabe or post-Tanabe?
Here are a few things I would like you to consider.
1 - Kano learned his Jiujitsu from several JIujitsu schools, all of which were Stand up and or kneeling style schools.
2 - The Koryo school was the main basis of his throwing techniques
3 - Kano abhorred Newaza, calling it school yard wrestling. Which makes me believe he did not emphasize it in his curricullum.
4 - When his students had a competition with Tanabe's school, the Judoka's were easily defeated once the match went to the ground. Which makes me believe that if the Judoka's had any ground skills at all, it was rudimentary at best.
5 - Kano changed the rules to award an instant victory to the fighter making a single clean throw, thereby giving his students the advantage in the matches. Not cool.
6 - Kano had a lot of students in high positions that were police, political and military. He had a lot of influence in his community. The rumor was that he forced Tanabe's school under the Kodokan umbrella. If they refused, he could have them closed down as happened to many Jiu jitsu schools after they got a bad reputation for injuries. Tanabe would not have been treated as an apprentice, rather more likely an instructor level or consultant in his specialty, Newaza. One of possibly many teachers that Kano had on his teaching staff made up of other Jiujitsu-ka. It was rumored that Tanabe was not very happy with this situation and I am sure that he would not have entrusted all his knowledge to the Kodokan thereby making their knowledge of his skills insufficient.
7 - I too have seen Oda's video on UA-cam and I happened to notice that Kano's picture was not on the dais behind Oda when he was being interviewed, signifying his status and honor as founder . He has taken pictures alongside the Jiujitsu community but the fact that the Kosen community does not acknowledge Kano as their founder has a lot to say. I would really like to know who's pictures are on the dais because that would prove my theory that Tanabe was their founder if he is the one who's picture is on the dais.
8 - It would also prove why Maeda (who although being a Kodokan blackbelt, was also a student of Tanabe's students) did not teach the Gracies that the Kodokan was the source of their knowledge. It seems that Maeda left that part out and they the Gracies had no allegiance to the Kodokan or had any knowledge of the Kodokan at all.
9 - Another group in Brazil, the Mehdi Judo group which was operating around the same time as Carlos and Helio Gracie did acknowledge their connection to the Kodokan. So the Kodokan lineage would have been taught to the Gracie's as well if Maeda chose to do so , and he did not. To be continued.
Ground game existed before even the "gracie" guard. www.docdroid.net/PC2xkV8/the-game-of-jujitsu-yukio-tani-koizumi-1906-pdf#page=3
Chadi with all due respect theres more than one way to look at the meeting between ueshiba and Abe. This meeting is a type camaraderie. A way to feel each others strength. To come to appreciate each other more closely.
Its well known that it was nearly impossible to apply pinning techniques or off balance ueshiba in anyway.
Ueshiba probably could see the strength and martial veracity in Abe and wanted to acknowledge Abe in respect of that.
Arrogance no. It would have been arrogant to suggest Shia. Or that ueshiba could beat Abe in Shia. That would be arrogant.
That's the thing with written accounts, you can miss a lot of details and impressions told by the one telling the story
@@Chadi agreed. I love your materials. I have some info for you on the different applications of honati yoshin ryu and daito ryu as per aikido. I'll send it your way within 48 hours
Thank you Matt
👍👊
🤙🏻
Evolution. Study symbiogenesis to understand how humans and sports evolve.. especially ju jitsu
Interesting history, but I don't believe so much the story with the finger, probably an urban legend among the aikido schools(sory if I am killing the romance of the story) . Seems that inside aikido remained a nostalgic memory of Japan's lost pride after the war , if you check with shintoism its like the pagan version of Japanese religion, with spirits, fairies, giants etc. , normally paganism comes along with unreasonable nationalism beliefs, I don't know if that made him leave those judoka hippies and go for traditional Japanese MAs he lived like a real samurai, the reason for dieing alone after a successful career is probably because he was stuck with traditions so much ppl started to cannot stand him as he grew old. I don't know just guessing may The Lord forgive him! 😂 I was hoping for footage of a fight with Kimura or something.......
I too doubt the finger story, but yeah I tried to find the kimura fight but it was in 1935, video wasn't that popular yet at least not in the east to film teenagers fight.
@@Chadi I am in contact with a direct student of Kenshiro Abbe. He confirmed with me that the study is true.
Hold up? So leg locks got banned because some jiu jitsu dude broke some judoka's leg?
No! It was banned way later, Tanabe broke Yuji's leg in the 1800s, leg locks got banned in 1923
@@Chadi dang ok
Wait, that's around the time that Ad Santel (Adolf Ernst), a catch wrestler, was defeating students of the Kodokan Judo school. I wonder if there is any correlation with this ban and the "embarrassment" the Elites running those schools felt in being defeated by a Western style art? Therefore making it less effective. (Or threatened by the rising popularity of Western Style wrestling among the Japanese public?)
Edit: The history of 1920's Japan helps as the government was giving way to an increased Hyper-Nationalism movement particularly in their institutions.
Bs!mma is the real deal!
Aikido master defeated a judo fighter !! 😐😒😐
He was doing judo before aikido
Kimura become famous cause he defeated Gracie, the founder of brazilian ju jitsu, it was not mean Kimura is the best judoka at the mean times..
No he was famous before that. Gracie wanted to challenge him because Kimura was the top dog and he wanted to prove the effectiveness of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Kimura said "No your not good enough. I'll send my number 3 guy". Whom Gracie beat. Then Kimura said "I'll send my number 2 guy" who was also beat. So Kimura finally accepted his challenge and beat him, Gracie refused to tap so his shoulder was broken with the shoulder lock, which is why in BJJ the shoulder lock is referred to as a "Kimura". Where did you get your information?
@@mrdesperate1 kato was not the number 2 guy in Japan. That is ridiculous.
Kimura was the best Judoka in the world during his prime.
@@philliprobinson129 Not what I was saying but I see what you mean. The story as I understand it is he sent his top students. So his number 2 wouldn't be the number 2 Judoka overall, he just sent his top two students. That's my understanding anyways. Sorry for any confusion.