Occasional audio issues don't bother me, but this episode was constant mic feedback from banging on the table. And it seems to be getting worse! The microphone arms need to be attached to the table so the mic doesn't pick up every table bump. I enjoy the show, but the three hosts need to listen this episode to hear what they are doing to the audio quality!
And some shock mounts for the mics along with some discipline with the banging on the table. I really like Doug and this type of content, but the technical production stuff here is seriously lacking, and it makes it pretty difficult to listen to.
The tech guy for this podcast really needs to isolate those mics to stop them picking up 1,700 table bangs as all three of them bang the table the whole time.
A model S with a working battery and drivetrain will always have a high scrap value in it's parts. A quick Ebay search shows 2013 Model S 60 kWh battery packs selling for 4-5k (completed items, not listings). With 85 kWh packs selling for 6k+.
I can't believe we've normalized the Lexus grilles. When they changed to the current design about 6 years ago I nearly busted a gut. It will never grow on me.
My dad was shopping for a late model LS a few years ago and I just couldn’t talk him into a slightly older model to avoid the grille, it’s a good looking car but the face ain’t it
@@killurtv319C&B can afford a lot of egg foam and command strips. They don’t even need to fully cover the walls. Even hanging some tapestries would do wonders
Doug claims Luxury EV's depreciate a ton but then goes into how a Range R loses $180k in 3 years. Reality check: All car depreciate except for a select few that have scarcity. If Doug says he looks at "Total Cost of Ownership" then the Model Y today beats everything else out there, because you can get them new under $40k (after fed rebate), and Consumer Reports just rated Tesla lowest in maintenance costs over both 5 and 10 year timeframes. Add with how much cheaper electricity is than gas, there are good reasons why its the most popular car in the world. What is really funny to me is Doug doesn't dive into the real discussions of the actual reason EVs depreciate so much - besides being a newer technology that many people are irrationally scared of - 1) $7500 Government Rebate on New EVs instantly makes the used market much more depressed on prices after you drive off the lot and that fact always makes a sensational headline 2) Battery concerns because normal consumers don't know how to check or judge battery health so it "seems" like a risky buy to get used The key is on most EVs as long as the battery doesn't die you basically have near $0 in maintenance costs (just tires really) and if you can charge at home you drive around for a fraction of the fuel cost of a regular car. A $5k Nissan Leaf can save $2k a year on fuel and are way more fun to drive than a Corolla or Sentra.
I think some cars like the CGT, Countach, or even F40 don’t attract as many enthusiasts anymore i think because of the price point it mainly attracts people who liked the car as kids but dont actually care for cars as a whole. They buy them because they know other people know how expensive it is, they also know they don’t have to drive it a lot. Imo anything over $200k starts to attract more non enthusiasts than actual enthusiasts. I also think that people who hate low hp cars or people who hate specific region cars US, EU, etc. arent actual enthusiasts
A car enthusiast is somebody who thinks they’re exclusive from (and sometimes better than) other humans because they appreciate and obsess about some large object that some other group of people created.
So. Story here about luxo car/suv depreciation. Bought a BN '23 SQ7 (ahem... which I tried to sell on C&Bs; but it didn't work out) and I was deep into my locker on NE. I needed to downgrade for various reasons, and fast. I went to Toyota, they laughed at me, I went to Honda, ditto, and ultimately landed back with Audi - same d'ler, actually, that sold me the SQ7. They gave me a fair'ish, I think, trade in offer, but I was still $7k under water. With some discounts, and Costco, I was able to get into a form of transportation. So yeah, the covid-era-equity that I had from my '20 Raptor and my '22 GX460, was ultimately burned by: '21 X3m, '22 GLC43 and the '23 SQ7. Fun's over, however.
The new Land Cruiser is the new version of the land cruiser Prado which was offered overseas and Lexus GX. It’s not a new version of the full size land cruiser.
Would really love to know how Doug buys/sells cars - are they all separate loans, or rolled up into a single loan, or purchased outright, or some other magic?
I think it's fair to say he was the stylist for the McLaren, anyone who likes how it looks should thank him, anyone who likes how it drives should thank GM. Peter Stevens also worked on a WRX refresh I think - or possibly just a Prodrive special edition or WRC car. Somewhere near the end of the original shape and before the bugeye version, anyway.
Everyone complaining about the sound quality. Just be happy Doug is doing this, he isn’t doing it for the money, he is doing this because he loves talking about cars and he knows it’s something his followers will appreciate. So appreciate it and stop being keyboard warriors.
Filippo, GO DRIVE A SECOND GEN CAYENNE OR MACAN. The driving dynamics for these things are unbelievable for an SUV, They are genuinely athletic in sport mode and extremely civilized otherwise. This might be just what you're looking for.
So I don't have a tenth of the knowledge or experience with cars that these guys have but compared to the general public I probably know 100 times what most people do about cars. I didn't even get into cars until I started working in the industry in 2016 and I can't drive a manual mostly due to living in a city where cars weren't necessary to get around and so I got my license very late. According to their definition I wouldn't be an enthusiasts but I would be by most normal people's definition. That gatekeeping mentality is why car culture has been on the decline.
Tesla depreciation: Kennzoil's theory that internet updates on Tesla keep it fresh makes no sense. Do software updates change the styling? Do they update the interior? Do they add features security features which the car has no hardware for? No. All it does it updates the UX on the touchscreen and maybe marginally updates the self-driving stuff, which most cars don't have and most people don't need that much anyway.
What type of enthusiast is this: I'll flip out if I see a perfectly ordinary car from 30 years ago in pristine showroom condition. Like I'll get more excited than seeing a supercar or exotic.
I am apparently not an enthusiast. I have no clue on a lot of brands, particularly BMW’s. I like seeing cars I consider cool, but I likely would ask what is the horsepower? Or maybe what is it like driving it?
What makes a car enthusiasts? Do you like cars more than the average guy and you enjoy the act of driving? Then you're a car enthusiasts at the most basic level.
If disabled or you’re 16 sure but if you’re an able bodied adult “enthusiast” and you can’t drive stick you aren’t an enthusiast, it’s like calling yourself a boat enthusiast but you can’t sail
@@bradydevergilio7478 that’s just a silly and antiquated gatekeeping requirement. Unlike boats where it’s actually a requirement for operating , it’s merely a preference for cars. There are people whole simply haven’t had the opportunity to learn manual and that should have zero bearing on one’s interest or passion for cars and car culture.
@@Foxxy_Steveexactly. I have no interest in learning how to drive a manual. I'm happy for those that enjoy it but I never learned at this point can't really see the point
On the topic of talking to non car enthusiasts. I daily a RHD car and a lot of people declare it's British/European, and I always feel a little bad stating it's Japanese. Weirdly they seem to care about continuing the conversation less when I say that. Fine with me, I'm usually trying to leave a parking lot, but that always interests me. Both Europe and Japan are equally as foreign to you and you are disenthused about one more than the other???
To me, a car enthusiast is someone who cares about the driving experience of a car and not just the speed or stats behind a car. If all someone says about a car is that it's got 1000 horse power, goes 0-60 in two seconds and costs two million dollars then they're not really an enthusiast, they just care about it as a status symbol. An enthusiast will be much more interested in how the car makes them feel or pick up on little intersting details of the car or driving experience
I know how to drive a manual but I don't think that should be a litmus test for a "car enthusiast". And if you go by that that definition, then Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari, etc are no longer enthusiast car brands.
Exactly. I can’t drive stick yet but I really want to learn how, but that’s mostly due to my parents not owning manual cars and they want me in an auto for my first car
I’m a 36 year old enthusiast whose dad taught me to drive a stick at 19 and I never got the appeal. Oh sure, if all of your driving consisted of driving on twisty roads with no traffic and minimal stopping… sure, sign me up. Everyday driving in a suburb/city would not be fun, it’s not fun getting fast food cause you’re hitting the clutch 20x. There are plenty of automatic ‘enthusiast’ cars out there.
I only drive stick in my truck but won't do it in a car, and even then, stick is nice only when doing very slow speed maneuvers. I prefer the SMG in my BMW or the semi auto in my Can Am otherwise.
Shout out to Doug's audio crew - Look up the Shure microphone Elastic Suspension Shock Mount! Or get rid of the table because you'll never get Doug to stop hammering on it no matter how many times you scold him...
When my friends and family are wondering about a new car, I just send them an old Jalopnik article titled "Parents, just buy the damn minivan." They don't, then they admit I was right soon after.
I would consider myself a car enthusiast, but I am not as into supercars or modifications. I know much more about boring, everyday cars. I watch a ton of car videos, but wouldn’t be able to point out every single super car from one another because I don’t see them everyday and I don’t watch videos about them. I like to learn more about how cars, engines, and transmissions work and I like watching car repair videos. I also like learning about the manufacturing process. I really enjoy driving cars and I prefer sedans and light weight vehicles, but I’m not a typical car enthusiast. I drive a 2008 Corolla and it is still fun for me and fits my budget. I appreciate its reliability and that it’s only 2500 pounds. I guess I just get excited about different things than other enthusiasts. I haven’t had the opportunity to drive a car that I have been seriously impressed with so I find value in cars that other people don’t. I’ve probably watched 4000+ hours of videos about cars, but just never typical car enthusiast videos. More engineering and mechanic videos as well as car reviews like Doug, Throttle House, and Automotive Press. I also watch mechanics like Car Care Nut and the Car Wizard.
This is so funny because this not only perfectly describes myself as well but also probably a lot of people. Obsessed with cars but drive a 150k mile Mazda CX-5 because it’s reliable and affordable and can only afford to save for a house in today’s crazy market but have the Porsche posters knowing that one day :)
I am the same way. Exotic cars don’t interest me a whole lot but I love the interesting rare versions of everyday cars. I currently daily drive a Lexus LS400 and have a 2005 Subaru Forester 2.5XT with a manual transmission and it’s fun that nobody really knows that it’s more special than the average forester. My dream car is a Lexus ISF. I enjoy working on my own cars and learning how mechanical things work
You Tube Man n the UK has a '22 Porsche Taycan. It's already depreciated to the price where a replacement battery costs more. The depreciation is so bad he's been offered 18% of the original price for a buy out. Porsche dealers won't buy it back unless he takes it for a new EV - even then he's still underwater by 25% of trade in value.
RT on macan’s being reliable. We bought a 2018 S two years ago and have done literally nothing but oil changes. It’s incredibly fun to drive, interior quality is 💯. We are obsessed
love the pod but a producer really needs to force doug to wear headphones so he can hear how his audio changes while he moves around (he could move the mic as he talks and remain just as animated!)
I think Doug is right about the Prius solving most people's car needs...yet no one seems to be buying it, lol. They buy a Corolla Cross, Camry, Rav4, or so many cars from other brands before even considering the new Prius.
It's funny, I had the realization today walking down the block of my neighborhood. I noticed how many people in my area either have a compact SUV or a crossover and it made me think about the evolution of the mainstream car, because it was sedans, then station wagons, then minivans, then large SUVs, then mid size SUVs and now the aforementioned compact SUV and crossover. It made we realize we're all just working out way back to regular cars, but with extra steps lol. Because crossovers are starting to get more and more popular, but a crossover is just a raised up car essentially. We'll we get back to sedan eventually or will the crossover just be the generic "car" now?
@@soilent9618 I think the "normal car" in the next 10 years or so will be small to mid-sized crossovers, i.e. essentially slightly taller hatchbacks. In North America, the typical vehicle will likely resemble cars like the Kia Niro/Toyota Corolla Cross on the small end, the Hyundai Ioniq 5/Tesla Model Y in the middle, and three-row models similar to the Grand Highlander or Kia EV9 for the smaller slice of people that need more room. I'm actually predicting that the larger trucks and SUVs, EV, hybrid, or ICE, will become more of a niche market than today. We are already beginning to see consumers, even if they want them, getting priced out of these larger and more expensive vehicles. But, yes...sadly, the traditional sedan appears to be very quickly dying. Non-luxury wagons have mostly been dead for years already. Going the long way back to hatchbacks in North America does seem to be very circular...
@@soilent9618 I think you're right...crossovers will be the generic car...albeit they will resemble hatchbacks more and more, as EVs, or even hybrids, will require more aerodynamics to achieve range. Look how much lower the Tesla Model Y or Hyundai Ioniq 5 are than similarly-sized ICE cars like the Toyota Rav4. Traditional non-luxury sedans are very quickly dying, but I think crossovers will simply become less and less distinct from the hatchbacks and wagons of yesteryear. I think fewer people will be able to afford or justify the mega trucks and SUVs that have become fairly popular among a significant slice of the middle class. They will likely become more of a niche for a subset of fairly wealthy folks. I predict that eventually, the middle-class consumer will economically be forced to downsize into the compact/mid-size, hatchback-like crossovers that are increasingly coming.
You guys have to come to the same realization that I did when you speak of kids not knowing these iconic cars. They never grew up with them, they never bought car and driver magazine they scrolled thru car and drivers IG account. It’s a different time. The reality is that the Carrera GT and F50 are to kids what Chevy Novas and Ford Pintos were to us. Sure they are amazing in their own aspect but most of us who grew up in the 90s simply cared more about the McLaren F1 than we did a 60’s Corvette, it’s our job to educate and not belittle.
This!! I was so tempted to buy one but back when I was looking I couldn’t justify $40+k for a Corolla at the end of the day. Maybe sometime in the next few years.
GR Corolla, Type R, or Golf R. Normies don’t get spending $45k on a hatchback. GR-86, BRZ, Miata Club Sport. Small, expensive, low power, RWD cars don’t appeal to non drivers.
I starting watching you Doug when you got started and never looked back. great channel honest, simple and fun. Then Kennan came along and I love the guy. Alanis gettin' herself into trunks and I'm a full throttle fan , This is the first time I see Filippo (nice to meet you) and along the stuff you said today I have to completely agree about other channel hosts. I always watch throttle house which is amazing, Hoovies or some others like Schmee far way less but I really like Matt Watson with Car Wow so yeah.The GMA new car I think is something very different and will be important in the future. I really can'tg wait for you to review that and the New Pagani Utopia with its brand new engine made by Pagani and not by AMG. Keep with the good work fellas and the fun for us car enthusiast to have a good time. and as always... Much love from West Spain ❤
The GMA T25 was a concept to showcase, not the actual car, but the production process, which was meantto be very streamlined and cost effective. It was never meant to go on sale 😉
You're over-complicating what an enthusiast is. An enthusiast is anyone that has any interest in any car for more than mere transportation (yes, even people who are "only" enthusiastic about status symbols). I'm old enough to remember when the elitist enthusiasts wouldn't recognize anyone that couldn't rebuild an engine as an enthusiast.
Kennan's take on what makes a car enthusiast is extremely bad and very gate keeping. You HAVE to know how to drive a manual to be an enthusiast? You have to get an old car in-order to be an enthusiast? Someone driving a Huracan isn't an enthusiast because they don't drive a Countach instead? Give me a break man.
Are you ignoring opportunity cost, Doug? You're basically losing $200,000/year by owning a Carrera GT, even if the price doesn't drop. And like you well said, it probably won't beat the SP500, so the best thing to do is drive and enjoy all cars. So yes, cars are not assets unless they exponentially increase in price and outperform the market, which is very rare. The last bubble has already burst and the next one is likely decades away when EVs are ubiquitous.
Just bought a 2020 model 3 46k miles from tesla used with the extra warranty from buying from telsa for 20,400 after the 4k tax credit an absolute steal and still has a good chunk of warranty left. I charge at home only spend about 3 cents per mile driving compared to the 13-15 cents/mile from my subaru. The fact i still have 4 1/2 years battery and 1 1/2 year basic warranty left on a car that costs 20k (and a nice car at that) is absolutely nuts
Helping People Find the Right Car: I had the same idea about going to CarMax to compare a few cars, but the salesman said their policy is to not let anyone test drive more than a single car in a day. Non-negotiable. "I have 2 cars in mind, you have both on your lot, and I'm planning to buy a car this week, even today if I can test them both and find that I like one of them." Nope, sorry.
Its funny because we still get the REAL NEW LC called here in colombia LC300 and the new “LC” for the US is also sold here but as the prado, FYI the LC300 are trading here for 150-200k usd
Porsche can get away with leaving the Macan alone for so long because it’s Porsche. Porsche fans don’t WANT them to change the looks of their cars. Ever. In any way. Remember what happened when they changed the shape of the headlights on the 911?
as someone who is 23, whenever i have looked at cars in general over the past 5-6 years, the sell prices have ONLY risen for most of what i have seen. and i look at normal family cars that are common. i have just strictly been exposed to an era where cars have not depreciated
It would be nice if the microphones could be isolated, so they don't pick up every hand being placed on the table as a low rumble, especially in headphones. Otherwise, I love this show.
Is the carrera gt an icon because its such an amazing experience or is it because paul walker died in one? Ohh and his daughter won or settled with porsche for milllions.
"Depreciation" is such a financial term it shows how much the the Car World has morphed into the Car Market, where so many cars are bought for the sole purpose of sitting in a garage to become more expensive. Further understanding of car prices can be borrowed from the bond markets: "off the run" vs "on the run", "Marked to Market" vs "Held to Maturity". So any brand new electric car becomes "off the run" one month into ownership and if "marked to market" will display the depreciation horror stories we have seen lately. If you subscribe to the idea that the Value of the car is in the Use of it, you have to "hold it to maturity" of a decade or so, and realize its' value over time. Otherwise cars begin to mimic the art market, valued not for use or aesthetics, but as financial assets, and tax advantaged rolling sculpture.
Or maybe it’s called not being a fool about money. Maybe you’ve never heard financially responsible people discuss the financial aspect of care, which is absolutely massive.
@@yungrichnbroke5199 if people would be reasonable most popular vehicle would be minivan. Buying a car is "being a fool" anyway if you want to he that reasonable
When it comes to depreciated EV's, I would think one of the main concerns would be the eventual battery replacement cost. Also, they seem to eat tires. Maybe someone could chime in, don't they also have suspension issues.
Did I hear a Saab 9-3 Viggen review is coming up?!? I think an episode on the best orphaned cars is due! Disclosure: I have owned 3 Viggen (each configuration). Currently have a 2000 Monte Carlo Yellow 5-dr in the garage. Love them!
I really appreciate the conversation about depreciation. It’s great to hear your financial takes on cars with all of your experiences. It genuinely helps a lot!
EVs don’t bounce off a floor price due to the increasing cost of changing out their increasingly obsolete first gen batteries. The negative slope just becomes less negative.
I had the unicorn of Landcruiser...the diesels are the desirable models. The early 100's, but a 105, live axle front and rear...still used the 1HZ but with an Auto, on GXL form. So it was peak cruiser. With a stronger rebuilt engine and a Turbo added. It was a very rare vehicle. The 1HZ had 96kW without the turbo, it wasn't fast. Even with the turbo, but an Automatic Live Axle front and rear Automatic GXL, and all Landcruisers in Australia at that time came as 8 seaters... Then when the most desirable engine came along, it only was available with a Torsion Bar front end suspension...but I used it offroad (heavily). And the 1HZ engine was only second to the Nissan Patrol 4.2 Diesel...but you couldn't get that it in an Auto. But If I'd kept that car in immaculate condition, it would be worth massive amounts of money, but I had so much fun with it. Despite flooding it, denting and scratching it...where I could take it was worth it. But that was a very, very rare vehicle. The USA never got the 100 series with live axles front and rear and were only ever sold in Australia in base form. But now despite the torsion bar front suspension, (which is why I bought a Prado to replace it) because of the fuel tank size, and front struts, but it's rare to find a petrol/gas version because fuel is so cheap in the US...although I'm not going to complain, because Europe is off the charts. But here petrol is about AUD$2.00 per litre...at peak prices I put in close to $300 worth of diesel when I had the Prado, which is what the USA's "Landcruiser" is. So it is mildly amusing when people in the US whinge about fuel prices...even accounting for the worst exchange rate, you guys have it so easy...I wish I was paying the equivalent of $6 per 4 litres... that's cheap.
Just before Doug bought his 2013 200 series Land Cruiser, for the purpose of finding a great mountain SUV that wouldn't depreciate off of a cliff post-COVID hype prices, I'd settled on finding the best "low" mileage 06-07 Lexus LX 470 100 series I could find. Then his video comes out, and I almost second guessed my plan. Went through with it anyway, despite what he had to say about the safety features and towing advantages for the 200. (Didn't agree at all about styling - the 100 series is just a better looking truck than the 200 excluding the Heritage Edition.) Having a bulletproof SUV that looks sexy as hell with a good rack, sliders, Rock Warriors, and is still "young" at 105k miles, it's never felt like anything but the right decision.
I am glad Mr. Demuro is so manganous to his fellow youtubers. I enjoy his content. For consumer advice I like Alex on Autos, as he gives very detailed information for someone who would actually be in the market for a car. Savage Geese also put out great and detailed videos. For pure fun Demuro and the Throttle House guys are great. For looking at classic cars, the Curious Car guy is not only very informative but an entertaining old crank after my own heart.
Some acoustic paneling would go a long way to help with the reverberation, for whatever that’s worth to you
Even some tapestries would do a lot
Doug needs to either, learn to stop banging on the table or mount the mics to a stand.
Occasional audio issues don't bother me, but this episode was constant mic feedback from banging on the table. And it seems to be getting worse! The microphone arms need to be attached to the table so the mic doesn't pick up every table bump. I enjoy the show, but the three hosts need to listen this episode to hear what they are doing to the audio quality!
We had a model x but dumped it for the ix50 and we are so happy!!!😊
And some shock mounts for the mics along with some discipline with the banging on the table.
I really like Doug and this type of content, but the technical production stuff here is seriously lacking, and it makes it pretty difficult to listen to.
The tech guy for this podcast really needs to isolate those mics to stop them picking up 1,700 table bangs as all three of them bang the table the whole time.
Doug is the type of guy to have his Mac dock at the maximum size
A model S with a working battery and drivetrain will always have a high scrap value in it's parts.
A quick Ebay search shows 2013 Model S 60 kWh battery packs selling for 4-5k (completed items, not listings). With 85 kWh packs selling for 6k+.
New enthusiast cars to me: Lotus Emira, any manual M car, manual CT5V/CT4V, Porsche 911 Sport Classic and S/T, 718 gt4 and boxster spyder,
MIATA!!!!
Alpine A110
MkV supra, nissan Z
Came here to defend buying my new M2 manual. Its an enthusiast car for sure.
Any sporty new wagon... e63 wagon
I can't believe we've normalized the Lexus grilles. When they changed to the current design about 6 years ago I nearly busted a gut. It will never grow on me.
My dad was shopping for a late model LS a few years ago and I just couldn’t talk him into a slightly older model to avoid the grille, it’s a good looking car but the face ain’t it
Doug, you ogre, solve the audio quality issues.
I'm going to watch Shrek after this 😂
They are in a concrete garage. Not much they can so there will be reverb… I can tell you’re not a sound design enthusiast 😉
They could stop bumping the table…at the very least.
@@killurtv319C&B can afford a lot of egg foam and command strips. They don’t even need to fully cover the walls. Even hanging some tapestries would do wonders
funniest comment yet
"$9 car" 😂 Doug, you're hilarious 😊
Doug claims Luxury EV's depreciate a ton but then goes into how a Range R loses $180k in 3 years. Reality check: All car depreciate except for a select few that have scarcity.
If Doug says he looks at "Total Cost of Ownership" then the Model Y today beats everything else out there, because you can get them new under $40k (after fed rebate), and Consumer Reports just rated Tesla lowest in maintenance costs over both 5 and 10 year timeframes. Add with how much cheaper electricity is than gas, there are good reasons why its the most popular car in the world.
What is really funny to me is Doug doesn't dive into the real discussions of the actual reason EVs depreciate so much - besides being a newer technology that many people are irrationally scared of -
1) $7500 Government Rebate on New EVs instantly makes the used market much more depressed on prices after you drive off the lot and that fact always makes a sensational headline
2) Battery concerns because normal consumers don't know how to check or judge battery health so it "seems" like a risky buy to get used
The key is on most EVs as long as the battery doesn't die you basically have near $0 in maintenance costs (just tires really) and if you can charge at home you drive around for a fraction of the fuel cost of a regular car. A $5k Nissan Leaf can save $2k a year on fuel and are way more fun to drive than a Corolla or Sentra.
New enthusiast cars: GMA T-50, Lotus Emira, any MANUAL high performance cars..
I think some cars like the CGT, Countach, or even F40 don’t attract as many enthusiasts anymore i think because of the price point it mainly attracts people who liked the car as kids but dont actually care for cars as a whole. They buy them because they know other people know how expensive it is, they also know they don’t have to drive it a lot. Imo anything over $200k starts to attract more non enthusiasts than actual enthusiasts. I also think that people who hate low hp cars or people who hate specific region cars US, EU, etc. arent actual enthusiasts
Here here for Filipo getting a Cayenne diesel. Let Doug review it too!
A car enthusiast is somebody who thinks they’re exclusive from (and sometimes better than) other humans because they appreciate and obsess about some large object that some other group of people created.
I had an "enthusiast" tell me my 300 couldn't have a V8 bc the v8s were only for charger and challenger
wait til he finds out about pre-90s family cars
So. Story here about luxo car/suv depreciation. Bought a BN '23 SQ7 (ahem... which I tried to sell on C&Bs; but it didn't work out) and I was deep into my locker on NE. I needed to downgrade for various reasons, and fast. I went to Toyota, they laughed at me, I went to Honda, ditto, and ultimately landed back with Audi - same d'ler, actually, that sold me the SQ7. They gave me a fair'ish, I think, trade in offer, but I was still $7k under water. With some discounts, and Costco, I was able to get into a form of transportation. So yeah, the covid-era-equity that I had from my '20 Raptor and my '22 GX460, was ultimately burned by: '21 X3m, '22 GLC43 and the '23 SQ7.
Fun's over, however.
The new Land Cruiser is the new version of the land cruiser Prado which was offered overseas and Lexus GX. It’s not a new version of the full size land cruiser.
The fact that the first Porsche Filippo was in was a Carrera GT is a wild statement and a flex lol
Would really love to know how Doug buys/sells cars - are they all separate loans, or rolled up into a single loan, or purchased outright, or some other magic?
Doug: Since I made 37 million dollars I’m just happy for everybody💀
I actually don’t think the audio is that bad, I just think people like to complain😅
Peter Stevens the F1, in addition to the 2nd bodystyle Lotus Esprit and my Lotus Elan M100. He also drew the Jaguar XJR15 I think.
I think it's fair to say he was the stylist for the McLaren, anyone who likes how it looks should thank him, anyone who likes how it drives should thank GM. Peter Stevens also worked on a WRX refresh I think - or possibly just a Prodrive special edition or WRC car. Somewhere near the end of the original shape and before the bugeye version, anyway.
Everyone complaining about the sound quality. Just be happy Doug is doing this, he isn’t doing it for the money, he is doing this because he loves talking about cars and he knows it’s something his followers will appreciate. So appreciate it and stop being keyboard warriors.
Also, the sound quality is fine, I like that it feels like a chat between friends, doesn’t have to be studio quality.
I love the GTI. I am enthusiastic about that
Filippo, GO DRIVE A SECOND GEN CAYENNE OR MACAN. The driving dynamics for these things are unbelievable for an SUV, They are genuinely athletic in sport mode and extremely civilized otherwise. This might be just what you're looking for.
I like this podcast and the set
"GT4 RS, you passed up a 911, you're real." so true
I once saw a E60 M5 in azure blue. damn it was gorgeous
So I don't have a tenth of the knowledge or experience with cars that these guys have but compared to the general public I probably know 100 times what most people do about cars. I didn't even get into cars until I started working in the industry in 2016 and I can't drive a manual mostly due to living in a city where cars weren't necessary to get around and so I got my license very late. According to their definition I wouldn't be an enthusiasts but I would be by most normal people's definition. That gatekeeping mentality is why car culture has been on the decline.
Tesla depreciation: Kennzoil's theory that internet updates on Tesla keep it fresh makes no sense. Do software updates change the styling? Do they update the interior? Do they add features security features which the car has no hardware for? No. All it does it updates the UX on the touchscreen and maybe marginally updates the self-driving stuff, which most cars don't have and most people don't need that much anyway.
You guys really need to film somewhere else. Nice room, but it echoes SO much. I can’t relax!
Kennan looks like a Russian sailor.
What type of enthusiast is this: I'll flip out if I see a perfectly ordinary car from 30 years ago in pristine showroom condition. Like I'll get more excited than seeing a supercar or exotic.
I don’t think that one has to like a manual transmission to be a “true” car enthusiast. Especially true for younger generations.
41:00 can’t believe he didn’t talk about Matt Farah
Filippo should upgrade his 500 to an early Macan
This was a great episode
I am apparently not an enthusiast. I have no clue on a lot of brands, particularly BMW’s. I like seeing cars I consider cool, but I likely would ask what is the horsepower? Or maybe what is it like driving it?
Bring back Doug Score
What makes a car enthusiasts? Do you like cars more than the average guy and you enjoy the act of driving? Then you're a car enthusiasts at the most basic level.
You do not need to know how to drive a manual transmission to be a car enthusiast and don’t let anyone tell you different
If disabled or you’re 16 sure but if you’re an able bodied adult “enthusiast” and you can’t drive stick you aren’t an enthusiast, it’s like calling yourself a boat enthusiast but you can’t sail
@@bradydevergilio7478 that’s just a silly and antiquated gatekeeping requirement. Unlike boats where it’s actually a requirement for operating , it’s merely a preference for cars. There are people whole simply haven’t had the opportunity to learn manual and that should have zero bearing on one’s interest or passion for cars and car culture.
@@Foxxy_Steveexactly. I have no interest in learning how to drive a manual. I'm happy for those that enjoy it but I never learned at this point can't really see the point
On the topic of talking to non car enthusiasts. I daily a RHD car and a lot of people declare it's British/European, and I always feel a little bad stating it's Japanese. Weirdly they seem to care about continuing the conversation less when I say that. Fine with me, I'm usually trying to leave a parking lot, but that always interests me. Both Europe and Japan are equally as foreign to you and you are disenthused about one more than the other???
To me, a car enthusiast is someone who cares about the driving experience of a car and not just the speed or stats behind a car. If all someone says about a car is that it's got 1000 horse power, goes 0-60 in two seconds and costs two million dollars then they're not really an enthusiast, they just care about it as a status symbol. An enthusiast will be much more interested in how the car makes them feel or pick up on little intersting details of the car or driving experience
Couldn’t watch the full video-listening to Doug talk more than 30 minutes is like watching the People’s Court scene in Rainman on repeat
I know how to drive a manual but I don't think that should be a litmus test for a "car enthusiast". And if you go by that that definition, then Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari, etc are no longer enthusiast car brands.
Why do so many people come on here and whine about the audio? Do you really care that much? Doug clearly doesn’t 😂
The time to buy a used EV? Never, unless you wanna spend 60k on a new battery that will burn down your entire house sometime in the near future.
TVR Tuscan now 25 years old so can be imported!… just sayin’!..
Man I’m too broke to be watching this video
Haha
I know a few enthusiasts who can’t drive stick. I don’t think it’s a deal breaker. They just haven’t learned yet.
Exactly. I can’t drive stick yet but I really want to learn how, but that’s mostly due to my parents not owning manual cars and they want me in an auto for my first car
@@GermanCarGuyMNMost parents do, but it’s easy to learn. The first week will suck, and then you’ll get better from there.
I’m a 36 year old enthusiast whose dad taught me to drive a stick at 19 and I never got the appeal. Oh sure, if all of your driving consisted of driving on twisty roads with no traffic and minimal stopping… sure, sign me up. Everyday driving in a suburb/city would not be fun, it’s not fun getting fast food cause you’re hitting the clutch 20x. There are plenty of automatic ‘enthusiast’ cars out there.
I only drive stick in my truck but won't do it in a car, and even then, stick is nice only when doing very slow speed maneuvers. I prefer the SMG in my BMW or the semi auto in my Can Am otherwise.
Shout out to Doug's audio crew - Look up the Shure microphone Elastic Suspension Shock Mount!
Or get rid of the table because you'll never get Doug to stop hammering on it no matter how many times you scold him...
it's a podcast about cars, not asmr for sleep, you are complaining about a non issue
@@AK-gb9rp audio quality on a podcast isnt a non issue lol
When my friends and family are wondering about a new car, I just send them an old Jalopnik article titled "Parents, just buy the damn minivan." They don't, then they admit I was right soon after.
I would consider myself a car enthusiast, but I am not as into supercars or modifications. I know much more about boring, everyday cars. I watch a ton of car videos, but wouldn’t be able to point out every single super car from one another because I don’t see them everyday and I don’t watch videos about them. I like to learn more about how cars, engines, and transmissions work and I like watching car repair videos. I also like learning about the manufacturing process. I really enjoy driving cars and I prefer sedans and light weight vehicles, but I’m not a typical car enthusiast. I drive a 2008 Corolla and it is still fun for me and fits my budget. I appreciate its reliability and that it’s only 2500 pounds. I guess I just get excited about different things than other enthusiasts. I haven’t had the opportunity to drive a car that I have been seriously impressed with so I find value in cars that other people don’t. I’ve probably watched 4000+ hours of videos about cars, but just never typical car enthusiast videos. More engineering and mechanic videos as well as car reviews like Doug, Throttle House, and Automotive Press. I also watch mechanics like Car Care Nut and the Car Wizard.
This is so funny because this not only perfectly describes myself as well but also probably a lot of people. Obsessed with cars but drive a 150k mile Mazda CX-5 because it’s reliable and affordable and can only afford to save for a house in today’s crazy market but have the Porsche posters knowing that one day :)
Similar, I am familiar of some modifications, but only stuff that I could do myself.
I am the same way. Exotic cars don’t interest me a whole lot but I love the interesting rare versions of everyday cars. I currently daily drive a Lexus LS400 and have a 2005 Subaru Forester 2.5XT with a manual transmission and it’s fun that nobody really knows that it’s more special than the average forester. My dream car is a Lexus ISF. I enjoy working on my own cars and learning how mechanical things work
You Tube Man n the UK has a '22 Porsche Taycan. It's already depreciated to the price where a replacement battery costs more. The depreciation is so bad he's been offered 18% of the original price for a buy out. Porsche dealers won't buy it back unless he takes it for a new EV - even then he's still underwater by 25% of trade in value.
Im glad some people here are paying attention.
At this point, just keep the damn thing. Let it be
RT on macan’s being reliable. We bought a 2018 S two years ago and have done literally nothing but oil changes. It’s incredibly fun to drive, interior quality is 💯. We are obsessed
love the pod but a producer really needs to force doug to wear headphones so he can hear how his audio changes while he moves around (he could move the mic as he talks and remain just as animated!)
its fine wdym
Dude it’s fine. People are getting way too picky
I think Doug is right about the Prius solving most people's car needs...yet no one seems to be buying it, lol. They buy a Corolla Cross, Camry, Rav4, or so many cars from other brands before even considering the new Prius.
It's funny, I had the realization today walking down the block of my neighborhood. I noticed how many people in my area either have a compact SUV or a crossover and it made me think about the evolution of the mainstream car, because it was sedans, then station wagons, then minivans, then large SUVs, then mid size SUVs and now the aforementioned compact SUV and crossover. It made we realize we're all just working out way back to regular cars, but with extra steps lol. Because crossovers are starting to get more and more popular, but a crossover is just a raised up car essentially. We'll we get back to sedan eventually or will the crossover just be the generic "car" now?
@@soilent9618 I think the "normal car" in the next 10 years or so will be small to mid-sized crossovers, i.e. essentially slightly taller hatchbacks. In North America, the typical vehicle will likely resemble cars like the Kia Niro/Toyota Corolla Cross on the small end, the Hyundai Ioniq 5/Tesla Model Y in the middle, and three-row models similar to the Grand Highlander or Kia EV9 for the smaller slice of people that need more room. I'm actually predicting that the larger trucks and SUVs, EV, hybrid, or ICE, will become more of a niche market than today. We are already beginning to see consumers, even if they want them, getting priced out of these larger and more expensive vehicles. But, yes...sadly, the traditional sedan appears to be very quickly dying. Non-luxury wagons have mostly been dead for years already. Going the long way back to hatchbacks in North America does seem to be very circular...
@@soilent9618 I think you're right...crossovers will be the generic car...albeit they will resemble hatchbacks more and more, as EVs, or even hybrids, will require more aerodynamics to achieve range. Look how much lower the Tesla Model Y or Hyundai Ioniq 5 are than similarly-sized ICE cars like the Toyota Rav4. Traditional non-luxury sedans are very quickly dying, but I think crossovers will simply become less and less distinct from the hatchbacks and wagons of yesteryear. I think fewer people will be able to afford or justify the mega trucks and SUVs that have become fairly popular among a significant slice of the middle class. They will likely become more of a niche for a subset of fairly wealthy folks. I predict that eventually, the middle-class consumer will economically be forced to downsize into the compact/mid-size, hatchback-like crossovers that are increasingly coming.
Gotta love Doug. If he's gonna do a car podcast he's gonna do it in a garage. Acoustics be damned!
You guys have to come to the same realization that I did when you speak of kids not knowing these iconic cars. They never grew up with them, they never bought car and driver magazine they scrolled thru car and drivers IG account. It’s a different time. The reality is that the Carrera GT and F50 are to kids what Chevy Novas and Ford Pintos were to us. Sure they are amazing in their own aspect but most of us who grew up in the 90s simply cared more about the McLaren F1 than we did a 60’s Corvette, it’s our job to educate and not belittle.
Doug knows that, he often said that in videos on main channel when talking about cars that might be worth a lot in the future
6:32 for me the new Land cruiser is more a continuation of the FJ Cruiser. Would make more sense.
Kennan is kinda bullying Filippo throughout this episode, like he’s really proud to know more about exotics than him…
YOU GUYS DO REALIZE EVERY SINGLE TIME YOUR HANDS HIT THAT TABLE WE AT HOME HAVE TO HEAR A LOUD BASS SOUND, RIGHT?? PLEASE HIRE A NEW SOUND GUY.
New Enthusiast car that instantly comes to mind: The GR Corolla.
This!! I was so tempted to buy one but back when I was looking I couldn’t justify $40+k for a Corolla at the end of the day. Maybe sometime in the next few years.
I don't think these guys give much thought to modern affordable cars, or any Japanese and Korean cars, at all.
I was thinking the new z
GR Corolla, Type R, or Golf R. Normies don’t get spending $45k on a hatchback.
GR-86, BRZ, Miata Club Sport. Small, expensive, low power, RWD cars don’t appeal to non drivers.
GR corolla has replaced the STI for new enthusiast car, if you see an STI thats an enthusiast.
I starting watching you Doug when you got started and never looked back. great channel honest, simple and fun. Then Kennan came along and I love the guy. Alanis gettin' herself into trunks and I'm a full throttle fan , This is the first time I see Filippo (nice to meet you) and along the stuff you said today I have to completely agree about other channel hosts. I always watch throttle house which is amazing, Hoovies or some others like Schmee far way less but I really like Matt Watson with Car Wow so yeah.The GMA new car I think is something very different and will be important in the future. I really can'tg wait for you to review that and the New Pagani Utopia with its brand new engine made by Pagani and not by AMG. Keep with the good work fellas and the fun for us car enthusiast to have a good time. and as always... Much love from West Spain ❤
The GMA T25 was a concept to showcase, not the actual car, but the production process, which was meantto be very streamlined and cost effective.
It was never meant to go on sale 😉
You're over-complicating what an enthusiast is. An enthusiast is anyone that has any interest in any car for more than mere transportation (yes, even people who are "only" enthusiastic about status symbols). I'm old enough to remember when the elitist enthusiasts wouldn't recognize anyone that couldn't rebuild an engine as an enthusiast.
someone is banging the table, and i can't take it after about 2/3 of the way through lol. great podcast tho
Kennan's take on what makes a car enthusiast is extremely bad and very gate keeping. You HAVE to know how to drive a manual to be an enthusiast? You have to get an old car in-order to be an enthusiast? Someone driving a Huracan isn't an enthusiast because they don't drive a Countach instead? Give me a break man.
Are you ignoring opportunity cost, Doug?
You're basically losing $200,000/year by owning a Carrera GT, even if the price doesn't drop. And like you well said, it probably won't beat the SP500, so the best thing to do is drive and enjoy all cars.
So yes, cars are not assets unless they exponentially increase in price and outperform the market, which is very rare. The last bubble has already burst and the next one is likely decades away when EVs are ubiquitous.
Doug those Porsche service reminders all had the red Carrera on them. My 997 Turbo S had the same photo too.
Welcome to this echo
"I think there is a floor." I'm glad we have the professor here to give us insights like this.
Just bought a 2020 model 3 46k miles from tesla used with the extra warranty from buying from telsa for 20,400 after the 4k tax credit an absolute steal and still has a good chunk of warranty left.
I charge at home only spend about 3 cents per mile driving compared to the 13-15 cents/mile from my subaru.
The fact i still have 4 1/2 years battery and 1 1/2 year basic warranty left on a car that costs 20k (and a nice car at that) is absolutely nuts
Helping People Find the Right Car:
I had the same idea about going to CarMax to compare a few cars, but the salesman said their policy is to not let anyone test drive more than a single car in a day. Non-negotiable. "I have 2 cars in mind, you have both on your lot, and I'm planning to buy a car this week, even today if I can test them both and find that I like one of them." Nope, sorry.
I'd like to see a collab with 2 polar opposites. Doug Demuro and "That Dude in Blue"
When did Kenan join the Russian navy? 😂 Sorry Kenan, I couldn’t resist. I hope you and Emily are doing well.
Its funny because we still get the REAL NEW LC called here in colombia LC300 and the new “LC” for the US is also sold here but as the prado, FYI the LC300 are trading here for 150-200k usd
land cruiser 200 is junk car comparing to gwagen for the same money
Just bought a 2016 Cayenne S with 88k miles and its so amazing
I've been looking at 958 V8 Cayenne's, anything bad to look out for?
I don’t know if I’m the only one but I think doug‘s ego is getting to him. It’s becoming repugnant
Nope!
Day #4 of asking you to review a Mazdaspeed Miata.
Porsche can get away with leaving the Macan alone for so long because it’s Porsche. Porsche fans don’t WANT them to change the looks of their cars. Ever. In any way. Remember what happened when they changed the shape of the headlights on the 911?
as someone who is 23, whenever i have looked at cars in general over the past 5-6 years, the sell prices have ONLY risen for most of what i have seen. and i look at normal family cars that are common. i have just strictly been exposed to an era where cars have not depreciated
Comparing the new BMW's grill to Audi a8 made no sense
Doug has many fine qualities but good taste in styling is not one of them.
Appreciate the discussion, but please let each other finish sentences
It would be nice if the microphones could be isolated, so they don't pick up every hand being placed on the table as a low rumble, especially in headphones. Otherwise, I love this show.
The guy with the curly hair interrupts too much omg
Is the carrera gt an icon because its such an amazing experience or is it because paul walker died in one? Ohh and his daughter won or settled with porsche for milllions.
"Depreciation" is such a financial term it shows how much the the Car World has morphed into the Car Market, where so many cars are bought for the sole purpose of sitting in a garage to become more expensive. Further understanding of car prices can be borrowed from the bond markets: "off the run" vs "on the run", "Marked to Market" vs "Held to Maturity". So any brand new electric car becomes "off the run" one month into ownership and if "marked to market" will display the depreciation horror stories we have seen lately. If you subscribe to the idea that the Value of the car is in the Use of it, you have to "hold it to maturity" of a decade or so, and realize its' value over time. Otherwise cars begin to mimic the art market, valued not for use or aesthetics, but as financial assets, and tax advantaged rolling sculpture.
Or maybe it’s called not being a fool about money. Maybe you’ve never heard financially responsible people discuss the financial aspect of care, which is absolutely massive.
What are you talking about? Depreciation has always been a major topic in the automotive world.
He's also ignoring the opportunity cost of parking $1.5 million in a car. At the risk free rate that's $75k per year.
@@yungrichnbroke5199 if people would be reasonable most popular vehicle would be minivan.
Buying a car is "being a fool" anyway if you want to he that reasonable
11:38 Chrysler/dodge 😅
When it comes to depreciated EV's, I would think one of the main concerns would be the eventual battery replacement cost. Also, they seem to eat tires. Maybe someone could chime in, don't they also have suspension issues.
buying a pre owned EV sounds like a ticking time bomb to me. Im pretty comfortable with my 90s Fords
2017 Cayenne Turbo is a killer deal!!! Love mine
Did I hear a Saab 9-3 Viggen review is coming up?!? I think an episode on the best orphaned cars is due!
Disclosure: I have owned 3 Viggen (each configuration). Currently have a 2000 Monte Carlo Yellow 5-dr in the garage. Love them!
We need a 9-3 viggen review!
I really appreciate the conversation about depreciation. It’s great to hear your financial takes on cars with all of your experiences. It genuinely helps a lot!
EVs don’t bounce off a floor price due to the increasing cost of changing out their increasingly obsolete first gen batteries. The negative slope just becomes less negative.
50:35: I still don't like the e60/e90 front end, but I do like the F and (gasp) even the G series. E36 and E46 are still my favorites.
Just bring back the scores and stop making excuses.
I had the unicorn of Landcruiser...the diesels are the desirable models. The early 100's, but a 105, live axle front and rear...still used the 1HZ but with an Auto, on GXL form. So it was peak cruiser. With a stronger rebuilt engine and a Turbo added. It was a very rare vehicle. The 1HZ had 96kW without the turbo, it wasn't fast. Even with the turbo, but an Automatic Live Axle front and rear Automatic GXL, and all Landcruisers in Australia at that time came as 8 seaters...
Then when the most desirable engine came along, it only was available with a Torsion Bar front end suspension...but I used it offroad (heavily). And the 1HZ engine was only second to the Nissan Patrol 4.2 Diesel...but you couldn't get that it in an Auto. But If I'd kept that car in immaculate condition, it would be worth massive amounts of money, but I had so much fun with it. Despite flooding it, denting and scratching it...where I could take it was worth it. But that was a very, very rare vehicle. The USA never got the 100 series with live axles front and rear and were only ever sold in Australia in base form. But now despite the torsion bar front suspension, (which is why I bought a Prado to replace it) because of the fuel tank size, and front struts, but it's rare to find a petrol/gas version because fuel is so cheap in the US...although I'm not going to complain, because Europe is off the charts. But here petrol is about AUD$2.00 per litre...at peak prices I put in close to $300 worth of diesel when I had the Prado, which is what the USA's "Landcruiser" is. So it is mildly amusing when people in the US whinge about fuel prices...even accounting for the worst exchange rate, you guys have it so easy...I wish I was paying the equivalent of $6 per 4 litres... that's cheap.
Just before Doug bought his 2013 200 series Land Cruiser, for the purpose of finding a great mountain SUV that wouldn't depreciate off of a cliff post-COVID hype prices, I'd settled on finding the best "low" mileage 06-07 Lexus LX 470 100 series I could find. Then his video comes out, and I almost second guessed my plan.
Went through with it anyway, despite what he had to say about the safety features and towing advantages for the 200. (Didn't agree at all about styling - the 100 series is just a better looking truck than the 200 excluding the Heritage Edition.) Having a bulletproof SUV that looks sexy as hell with a good rack, sliders, Rock Warriors, and is still "young" at 105k miles, it's never felt like anything but the right decision.
I am a mild enthusiast and the spreadsheet car shopper. My car: Kia Niro Hybrid. Filippo = the true car guy here
I am glad Mr. Demuro is so manganous to his fellow youtubers. I enjoy his content. For consumer advice I like Alex on Autos, as he gives very detailed information for someone who would actually be in the market for a car. Savage Geese also put out great and detailed videos. For pure fun Demuro and the Throttle House guys are great. For looking at classic cars, the Curious Car guy is not only very informative but an entertaining old crank after my own heart.