You are just a remarkable fellow who I find fascinating to watch and listen to and I know nothing about your engines, nothing. But, I find your reasoning along with your work ethic exceptional. Your thinking and communicating is above average and I hope you continue recording, editing and sharing your videos for as long as you wish in the best of health. Thank you from an admirer in N Idaho.
I work milling and assembling new aerospace parts. Every-time I watch this channel I learn something new. Now I know why they don't do away with lockwire. It's a super cheap way to possibly increase reliability. I'll be thinking of this while observing assembly on monday! Thanks.
When I was lockwiring aircraft parts I liked using well used lockwire pliers. They always felt far easier to use. it takes years for a set to become comfortable. New pliers always felt tight and awkward. You need to do years of this to really get your head around the feel fo very comfortable lockwire pliers.
It is said that a dropped pieced of safety wire will always seek the sticky race tires leading to a puncture. I was cringing while you handled that pile of scrap with bare hands, this stuff is really sharp!
Good day Graham, I mentioned you in a more recent comment on this video so have a look see. Maybe you can shed some more light on the subject of lockwiring. Hope all is well. Cheers. DD
The first time I built my own quadcopter I didn't add Loctite to the bolts holding it together. As it was flying on its first test flight, it looked like it was dripping wet. It wasn't dripping water; it was dripping nuts and bolts. I quickly landed before it fell apart in the air and made sure all the nuts and bolts were well secured before flying again. I imagine a jet engine would start dripping parts without lockwire. Thanks for another fun and interesting video.
We get lockwire in 5 lb spools. It takes a while to burn through 5 lbs. Even when you are safety wiring every day. .032" wire weighs almost nothing per foot so there's quite a bit per spool.
Its good that you clarified the weight of lock wire. Now people can travel with plane with no worries that it fly ..... some people got their head between their a.s.s.
I'm just an automotive technician of 35 years. But it seemed like a no-brainer that there would be enough weight to even be noticed. But it's an interesting fact. Keep up the great work Agent JayZ
Nice experiment and demonstration. I have heard those kind of percentages referred to as "a nit on a gnat's nut", although I have never weighed any of those things . Great videos! Keep 'em coming!
It weighs 0.4 lbs. For those concerned about the loss of efficiency from weight, if the pilot eats a double quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald's before climbing in the aircraft, he's carrying more weight in his belly than the lockwire. And if you wanna nitpick, you forgot to factor in the weight of metal removed from the various bolts and fittings when the wiring holes were drilled.
It's an interesting study! This calculation should include the weight reduction for the bolts and nuts because of lockwire holes (it's tiny weight sawing I know). This would show the "total balance".
I wonder what the offset of weight would be, if you also then factored in the fact that the lock-wired fasteners are drilled, vs not. Just a thought, not a request to actually calculate that! But for those that asked the question leading to this video.
So if the pilot inadvertently left a handful of coins in their pocket, we’d be talking a similar order of magnitude of additional weight ie. not even worth taking the time to calculate.
LOCK WIRE / SAFETY WIRE a miniscule part of a plane that without it the plane will fall from the sky. I had a QC guy in the USAF gig me for 1 less twist per inch in a safety wire I had placed on the CPRL adjustment screw on an MSET inspection for the AGM28B Hound Dog Missile.
Also according to wikipedia (and my calculations) it would take the Orenda 14 about 13 seconds to burn 0.4 lbs of fuel at maximum thrust. Great video AgentJayZ!
Incorrect by an order of magnitude. At full power, the Orenda 14 burns just shy of 20 gallons per minute of jet fuel. at approximately 8 lbs per gallon, that 160-ish lbs per minute. If we round down to be extra conservative, and to make things easy to visualize... lets say 150 lbs per minute, or 2.5 lbs per second. Times your 13, that would be 32.5 lbs... 32.5 / 0.4 = 81.25... so your error is pretty near two orders of magnitude. ... Doh! It actually takes an Orenda 14 about a sixth of a second to burn 0.4 lbs of fuel.
@@AgentJayZ however, when you compare this to the burn rate of Canadian Jet Engine Technicians doing the UA-cam comments maneuver, the Orenda engine pales in comparison by orders of magnitude..
AgentJayZ thank you for the correction! I have to look into that again. To be honest my calculation felt a bit low but after checking again and obviously making the same mistake again I posted it 😅
About 27 ten thousandths of a percent or 0.0027% Had an old lab tech tell this whippersnapper (me) once "there's a difference between scratchin' yer ass and rippin' it to shreds."
Cool video as usual Jay. I have a roll of lock-wire in my shop and started laughing before I'd watched 2 minutes. Too bad if the pilot of the Sabre had an extra slice of toast for breakfast.
I saw Juan Brown's take on the horrible Snowbird accident. Sincere condolences to the families and all involved. On the video he showed, during climb out you could hear a "pop pop" from the engine on the accident aircraft. Juan did mention compressor stall as one possibility. It will be interesting to find out exactly what failed though. The "lock wire" thing reminded me of that. Thanks for your excellent video. --gary
First, condolences to the entire Snowbirds family, I know they are close. The audio of the first video of the accident that I saw, indicates a compressor stall in the critical takeoff window. Thank you AgentJZ for your excellent explanation of a compressor stall. A tragic real life example despite the extraordinary efforts of the flight crew. We will not forget..
Thank you for your educational and entertaining videos. You provide a perspective that most of us would never get to see(even those of us working on aircrafts).
Good video. The latest use that I used 0.032" stainless steel lock wire was for my kids mask making project. We used it across the nose area to form the mask to a person's face. Lol. Works wonderful. Fun fact video. Good job.
Lockwire, barbed wire or a sack full of fishing hooks. Safety aspects are the same! Thanks for the maths too, must get that mascot out my flying suit now or I'll be losing sleep...
My intro to lockwire was at BCIT, taking all the lockwire and cotter pins off of a RR Dart , then spending a pleasant afternoon reinstalling it; never had a complex task like that since. My theory is it takes 1 unit of time to remove and up to 100 units to reinstall. Does not weigh a lot. And yes, that sharp end WILL flatten a tire...don't ask. Good show!
Another example of "two nations divided by a common language"? In the UK, they are known as split pins. Cotter pin would be the term used in the UK for, eg, a taper pin used for the crank on a bike, before what are known as 'cotterless cranks' came in.
Maybe there was a 'Mr. Cotter' that started a fastener company? The U. S. usually refers to split pins as cotter pins but I have seen/heard both in my 59 years.
After watching the video, I thought it would be interesting to compare the weight of the lockwire to the pilot's second cup of morning coffee then post the result as a comment. I was sorely disappointed to find that several others had beaten me to it. I guess that's what I get for sleeping instead of promptly watching AgentJayZ.
So practical, even pick up pieces of abandoned wire to be used in the future, 'owt for now't, give us a shout.....and fine silver wire is where to acquire your colloidal silver source.
When I was racing SCCA formula cars I had a love/ hate for safety wire. Drawing blood was a certainly, as was tire punctures. Nice slow leaks. Grrr. I was also a tire dealer ...Double Grrr... Pit and paddock housekeeping or lack thereof was an issue. It works. It also defeats if not managed.
Zero point four pounds (6 and a half ounces) is probably less than the difference between a short pilot's flight suit, boots, and helmet, and a tall pilot's flight suit, boots, and helmet. A small price to pay to keep a fastener that's worked loose from being ingested and causing the aircraft to crash, or be shot down and crash.
This guy is such a troll I love it. The shit doesn't matter at all for efficiency. You have to think in orders of magnitude and having a loose bolt fly though an engine has a far greater impact on efficiency than a few hundred grams... Thanks for the laughs.
Your comment at the end about lockwire being a secondary safety has me wondering, how often do you see something come into the shop with a fastener that has worked loose only to be retained by the lockwire? Or would the tiny amount a fastener can loosen before being stopped by the lockwire make it not noticeable?
I have seen loose fasteners held in place by lockwire 2 times in 20 years. Both times, complete engine destruction was prevented. I think it's worth the time.
I think if you round up its almost 3 thousandth of 1% not 274 thou. Makes your point even more. Btw 020 under your fingernail will create alot of cuss words
In 15 years, I have seen that happen twice. One of them literally helped avoid the engine failing in service. The other one was not critical. To answer you un-asked question: I have seen engines destroyed by fasteners that were not correctly locked. Millions in damages.
Good question that is asked frequently. Here's the answer I gave just yesterday: In 15 years, I have seen that happen twice. One time the lockwire literally helped avoid the engine failing in service. The other one was not critical. To answer you un-asked question: I have seen engines destroyed by fasteners that were not correctly locked. Millions in damages.
Sorry if it’s already been answered, but do modern aircraft turbofans still use lock wire or are there other fastener locking techniques and technology that have superseded this practice?
The use of self-locking nuts and self-locking thread inserts has been common practice for decades. Lockwire is non-preferred, as are studs. PS: And tabwashers.
Honestly someone thought the weight of the safety wire on an engine would be an issue? Maybe, maybe if they took ALL the safety wire used on a C-5 it might be an issue on a fighter. But then again with 500lb bombs slung under the wings it really would still be of no consequence.
After mowing the lawn I found a bolt just lying in the grass clippings on the mower. No idea where it came from, couldn't find any hole it was missing from. If I find out where it came from I'm going to drill a small hole in it and lockwire it after reinstalling it.
Love your work. I thought that the only implication of lock wires would be if they were badly installed on rotating parts with grossly different quantities causing an imbalance.
On the calculation of the dime scenario, did you account for the bathroom visit this morning ........ Just had to ask. This COVID-19 self lock down must be getting to me.
Is torque turn used in your work? I have learned of it on older Cat engines. The stretching of bolts. Something I never see here. As a learning the foot lbs and torque turn ?? Deg. ?
I was hit with 4 different adds while watching this whole video, first time this has happened to me. Hope that is a good thing! Love your work! Love your teachings.
I don’t recall what he said, but the tare weight of the box top was actually 77 and some odd grams per my recollection, so he may have simply been engaging in rough rounding in his head.
If you'll humor a tit for tat on the same subject, concerning installation cost of the various devices and tech wages, is there a better 'modern' solution for lockwire? I would imagine that at some point, self-locking nuts and/or liquid solutions like threadlocker (or some combination thereof) would be more time efficient and yet still cheaper in shop time in the long run versus a higher initial cost for hardware. Aside from being more difficult to remove with threadlocker and it's not exactly guaranteed to last like lockwire, any immediate downsides come to mind?
CMDR Boom There is certainly a place for self-locking nuts, etc., but lock wire has two important attributes over those examples. The first is, if a fastener tries to come loose, it puts the lock wire into tension, keeping the fastener in place. The second is, it gives a quick visual indication of the integrity of the fasteners. A broken lock wire is a red flag that something went wrong.
There are other things that can be used, such as Safe-T-Cable, but you can't use it on internal engine components. Gas turbine engines get hot too, which renders thread locker useless on the hot parts of the engine. There are a lot of places where self locking hardware is used, but it can't be used everywhere.
This may be a Graham question! Why do engine manufacturers use lockwiring in some applications & self-locking fasteners in others? For example, my old J44 uses screws & self-locking nuts to attach the turbine 'blisk' to the rotor shaft but lockwirng is used to secure the fuel manifold attachment screws (#10--32 socket head) to the combustion chamber. Both locations are probably pretty hot but cooling air is blasting at them as well so??? I'm not this educated! DD
it's not really the weight, but the location - you want that engine to be trimmed and balanced. if that link doesn't do anything then why is it there? if you were competing in the tour de france, would you check your pockets for dimes first? Einstein tells us that the faster something goes, the heavier it gets. and it's not like this is a dead weight, that wire has to be carried all over the place for the life of the engine. but, in the future, you have my blessing to ignore stupid questions.
Happens all the time: put a wrench on the bolt head, turn it CCW, feel a bit of resistance, then bang, safety wire is broken. Without that, I have never heard of it happening.
Agentjayz: Just heard about crash of one of the Snowbirds CT41's. News reports one crew fatally. really sorry to here that. Speculation is that the aircraft may have experienced a compressor stall/flameout. I think the CT41 uses the GE J85. Are you familiar with the J85 engine?
I've never worked on one, but we have the capabilities. That popping sound could have been a lot of things. Once the pilot recovers enough to describe what happened, we can speculate with a bit more chance of getting it right.
Again, awsome Video! But ;) For the fun of it.. how much would two nuts with lock wire (2 cm apart) way compared to two self-locking nuts ? ;) PS: read this as a joke ;-) -A
GT19! I lost a point for putting a mark at the base of the hexagon. I really wanted to put the year I made it on there, but they told me it would cost 4 points. Now, I use it for the highest possible position of honor: It is a fantastic beer opener. Yes I have a C-20 in the shop. Have you seen the stock tool? it actually works better. Still, I love the tool they made me make. 92/100
@@AgentJayZ The wrench project is amazing for getting students familiar with hand tools and teaches you a lot without you really noticing. Your many videos inspired me to start a career in aviation so thank you for what you do, I just finished my C20B project and i loved every second of it. The dream is to be apart of a passionate MRO shop like yours. Many of my classmates watched your lockwire video when we began, so your influence is continuing throughout BCIT to this day lol!
I wish you much success in the future. All of my fellow students, and a couple of my instructors who thought my dreams were silly... well, I am here to tell you that you can get wherever you want. I own a shop that builds fighter jet engines... Dude, every word of that is true. You can do that too.
He's looking for scales that are certified and extremely accurate and repeatable, because saving a few dollars on a scale and having an engine shake itself to bits because a turbine blade was the wrong weight, isn't a good business plan lol
I have feeling that those $30 - $100 scales will not come with paper which is telling who did calibrate that specific scale and when + real signature from that calibrator (not printed, but signed manually with pen).
Accuracy and reliability dictate the price. I once made the mistake of buying a cheap pocket-scale for weighing out a few grams or few hundred milligrams at a time. Then was most disturbed to note when testing it out that the weight (of the same item) varied enormously depending on whether it was centred on the weighing pan, or slightly off-centre in any direction. So it was good for telling if one thing was heavier than another, but for getting an accurate weight was utterly meaningless.
The scales I use for weighing compressor and turbine blades is accurate to 1/100 of a gram. It's important to accurately weigh the blades so you can plot them properly.
awesome ! i love the lockwire i dont want to by 16 different sizes ie gauge of wire for lashing the handgrips and what not on my skootr,r8? what say you for a do it all non aircraft size of wire
99% of the time we use 0.032". It's by far the most common size. 0.040 is too thick, like using rebar, and we are halfway through a ten year old roll of the stuff. 0.025 or 0.020 is only for electrical connectors, but you can use .032 for those easily.
@@AgentJayZ thankx thanks agent! I have found myself when I grip the wire to to do a pull and twist on it that I sometimes grip the wire so that the tail is over the top of the runner in the jaws But I am assuming this is not a good thing because the runner is deformed with a saddle so to speak ,this could be considered weakening with a stress concentration,r8?
[do not take seriously voice]: Aktchually, every gram counts and the weight of lock wire makes a unaceptable loss of performance. I know this because I removed the brakes of my truck and now it flies, even in corners.
You can't tell who did it but in many cases, you can tell who DIDN'T do it. It kicks some peoples' butts, even experienced people but most applications really aren't hard. You know your skill level when you can do the upside down & backwards safties.
Just say the weight is less than the percentage difference that a pilot makes when they take a dump vs. not taking one before take off. I.e. negligible.
You are just a remarkable fellow who I find fascinating to watch and listen to and I know nothing about your engines, nothing. But, I find your reasoning along with your work ethic exceptional. Your thinking and communicating is above average and I hope you continue recording, editing and sharing your videos for as long as you wish in the best of health. Thank you from an admirer in N Idaho.
Been to Idaho! N. Idaho! Went over 300 Km/hr on a ZX-12 on the causeway to Sandpoint!
No, I didn't...
Nope...
@@AgentJayZ What causeway?
I work milling and assembling new aerospace parts. Every-time I watch this channel I learn something new. Now I know why they don't do away with lockwire. It's a super cheap way to possibly increase reliability. I'll be thinking of this while observing assembly on monday! Thanks.
I remember that first lock wire video was how I found your channel. That has to be almost 10 years ago when I studied engineering...
When I was lockwiring aircraft parts I liked using well used lockwire pliers. They always felt far easier to use. it takes years for a set to become comfortable. New pliers always felt tight and awkward. You need to do years of this to really get your head around the feel fo very comfortable lockwire pliers.
Yes, I have an old pair that are much easier to use.
It is said that a dropped pieced of safety wire will always seek the sticky race tires leading to a puncture. I was cringing while you handled that pile of scrap with bare hands, this stuff is really sharp!
I must add my expression of condolence for the tragic accident at Kamloops.
Good day Graham, I mentioned you in a more recent comment on this video so have a look see. Maybe you can shed some more light on the subject of lockwiring. Hope all is well. Cheers.
DD
PS: It was a reply to 'Commander Boom's' comment.
On a side note, condolences to you Canadians for the recent loss of a Snowbird Pilot.
The first time I built my own quadcopter I didn't add Loctite to the bolts holding it together. As it was flying on its first test flight, it looked like it was dripping wet. It wasn't dripping water; it was dripping nuts and bolts. I quickly landed before it fell apart in the air and made sure all the nuts and bolts were well secured before flying again.
I imagine a jet engine would start dripping parts without lockwire.
Thanks for another fun and interesting video.
My new greenhouse could use some lockwire with all this dang wind we’re having
We get lockwire in 5 lb spools. It takes a while to burn through 5 lbs. Even when you are safety wiring every day. .032" wire weighs almost nothing per foot so there's quite a bit per spool.
I like nerding out on stuff like this.
So...to cancel out the weight of the lockwire, don't let the pilot have a preflight cup of coffee?
Its good that you clarified the weight of lock wire. Now people can travel with plane with no worries that it fly ..... some people got their head between their a.s.s.
I'm just an automotive technician of 35 years. But it seemed like a no-brainer that there would be enough weight to even be noticed. But it's an interesting fact. Keep up the great work Agent JayZ
Nice experiment and demonstration. I have heard those kind of percentages referred to as "a nit on a gnat's nut", although I have never weighed any of those things . Great videos! Keep 'em coming!
Imagine the weight savings if you remove all the nuts ...
You guys must have carried out a raid on a passing ship to get all that exhaust trunking! Loved the video 👍
I really like this lockwiring series. keep up the good work!
If you get poked with that lockwire it's sore for a while. Some kind of coating on it makes it worse.
Love this channel. All I know about jet engines I have learned from you. Thanks.
A Flemish lion flag? That’s nice! Grts from Flanders, Belgium!
It weighs 0.4 lbs.
For those concerned about the loss of efficiency from weight, if the pilot eats a double quarter pounder with cheese from McDonald's before climbing in the aircraft, he's carrying more weight in his belly than the lockwire.
And if you wanna nitpick, you forgot to factor in the weight of metal removed from the various bolts and fittings when the wiring holes were drilled.
It was worth using a $250 .1 gram precision scale only to add a "fudge factor" after converting it approximately to lbs!
Thanks for making me little more knowledgeable..
From india
I hope I'm not the only one who noticed/likes the "Engineering Flowchart" on the whiteboard.
My takeaway from this: You should be more worried about washing grease, dirt and grime off your damn jet than the weight of the lock wire.
It's an interesting study!
This calculation should include the weight reduction for the bolts and nuts because of lockwire holes (it's tiny weight sawing I know).
This would show the "total balance".
Excellent observation. The purpose of this video was to demonstrate that the portion of total engine weight taken up by lockwire is "nothing".
I wonder what the offset of weight would be, if you also then factored in the fact that the lock-wired fasteners are drilled, vs not. Just a thought, not a request to actually calculate that! But for those that asked the question leading to this video.
So if the pilot inadvertently left a handful of coins in their pocket, we’d be talking a similar order of magnitude of additional weight ie. not even worth taking the time to calculate.
Hey, somebody asked the question.
LOCK WIRE / SAFETY WIRE a miniscule part of a plane that without it the plane will fall from the sky. I had a QC guy in the USAF gig me for 1 less twist per inch in a safety wire I had placed on the CPRL adjustment screw on an MSET inspection for the AGM28B Hound Dog Missile.
Also according to wikipedia (and my calculations) it would take the Orenda 14 about 13 seconds to burn 0.4 lbs of fuel at maximum thrust.
Great video AgentJayZ!
Incorrect by an order of magnitude. At full power, the Orenda 14 burns just shy of 20 gallons per minute of jet fuel. at approximately 8 lbs per gallon, that 160-ish lbs per minute.
If we round down to be extra conservative, and to make things easy to visualize... lets say 150 lbs per minute, or 2.5 lbs per second.
Times your 13, that would be 32.5 lbs...
32.5 / 0.4 = 81.25... so your error is pretty near two orders of magnitude.
... Doh!
It actually takes an Orenda 14 about a sixth of a second to burn 0.4 lbs of fuel.
@@AgentJayZ Before I read the comments, I was wondering just what fraction of a seconds fuel the lock wire equivalent was, now I know!
@@AgentJayZ however, when you compare this to the burn rate of Canadian Jet Engine Technicians doing the UA-cam comments maneuver, the Orenda engine pales in comparison by orders of magnitude..
AgentJayZ thank you for the correction! I have to look into that again. To be honest my calculation felt a bit low but after checking again and obviously making the same mistake again I posted it 😅
About 27 ten thousandths of a percent or 0.0027% Had an old lab tech tell this whippersnapper (me) once "there's a difference between scratchin' yer ass and rippin' it to shreds."
"We will kep it metric to make it easy"...
Omg the amount of jokes that can bring out. XD
Genuinely sad to hear about the snowbirds incident. I always loved seeing them perform out at the Reno air races.
The weight of the lockwire is less significant than if the pilot went poop or pee before he took off.
Cool video as usual Jay. I have a roll of lock-wire in my shop and started laughing before I'd watched 2 minutes. Too bad if the pilot of the Sabre had an extra slice of toast for breakfast.
You'd save more weight by asking the pilot to take a shit before the flight.
... or leave one, as Dave used to say!
I saw Juan Brown's take on the horrible Snowbird accident. Sincere condolences to the families and all involved. On the video he showed, during climb out you could hear a "pop pop" from the engine on the accident aircraft. Juan did mention compressor stall as one possibility. It will be interesting to find out exactly what failed though. The "lock wire" thing reminded me of that. Thanks for your excellent video. --gary
First, condolences to the entire Snowbirds family, I know they are close. The audio of the first video of the accident that I saw, indicates a compressor stall in the critical takeoff window. Thank you AgentJZ for your excellent explanation of a compressor stall. A tragic real life example despite the extraordinary efforts of the flight crew. We will not forget..
Thank you for your educational and entertaining videos. You provide a perspective that most of us would never get to see(even those of us working on aircrafts).
It is 27.4 parts per million, or 2.74 thousandths of one percent, 2.74E-5 of the aircraft.
So if the pilot goes to the bathroom before the flight, we can ignore the weight of the lock wire?
Good video.
The latest use that I used 0.032" stainless steel lock wire was for my kids mask making project. We used it across the nose area to form the mask to a person's face. Lol. Works wonderful.
Fun fact video.
Good job.
safety is #1, doesn't matter how much it weighs when you put it up against your life and the lives of others.
Looks like there are bigger fish to fry in the weight/mass saving department!
Wow, measuring all the lockwire on an aircraft, trying to save weight, is like measuring a fart in a windstorm. It's laughably miniscule 😅
People have asked the question, so I thought I would try to answer it..
Depends on aircraft.
You're too funny, Mr. Jet City. You've got all these guys going loose nuts on this one, lol.
Loose nuts? They should have used lockwire.
Lockwire, barbed wire or a sack full of fishing hooks. Safety aspects are the same! Thanks for the maths too, must get that mascot out my flying suit now or I'll be losing sleep...
My intro to lockwire was at BCIT, taking all the lockwire and cotter pins off of a RR Dart , then spending a pleasant afternoon reinstalling it; never had a complex task like that since. My theory is it takes 1 unit of time to remove and up to 100 units to reinstall. Does not weigh a lot. And yes, that sharp end WILL flatten a tire...don't ask. Good show!
You can find my picture in GT-19. That's my cousin's CF-18 we posed with.
Yeah, that's us... the cool guys.
Another example of "two nations divided by a common language"? In the UK, they are known as split pins. Cotter pin would be the term used in the UK for, eg, a taper pin used for the crank on a bike, before what are known as 'cotterless cranks' came in.
Maybe there was a 'Mr. Cotter' that started a fastener company? The U. S. usually refers to split pins as cotter pins but I have seen/heard both in my 59 years.
After watching the video, I thought it would be interesting to compare the weight of the lockwire to the pilot's second cup of morning coffee then post the result as a comment. I was sorely disappointed to find that several others had beaten me to it. I guess that's what I get for sleeping instead of promptly watching AgentJayZ.
Who are the nannies that are worried about 6 ounces of lock wire?
So practical, even pick up pieces of abandoned wire to be used in the future, 'owt for now't, give us a shout.....and fine silver wire is where to acquire your colloidal silver source.
When I was racing SCCA formula cars I had a love/ hate for safety wire. Drawing blood was a certainly, as was tire punctures. Nice slow leaks. Grrr. I was also a tire dealer ...Double Grrr... Pit and paddock housekeeping or lack thereof was an issue. It works. It also defeats if not managed.
Well presented, sir!
The big question is, with Bluetooth and other wireless systems, are there any wireless lockwires? yes I'm kidding
Zero point four pounds (6 and a half ounces) is probably less than the difference between a short pilot's flight suit, boots, and helmet, and a tall pilot's flight suit, boots, and helmet.
A small price to pay to keep a fastener that's worked loose from being ingested and causing the aircraft to crash, or be shot down and crash.
This guy is such a troll I love it. The shit doesn't matter at all for efficiency. You have to think in orders of magnitude and having a loose bolt fly though an engine has a far greater impact on efficiency than a few hundred grams... Thanks for the laughs.
Your comment at the end about lockwire being a secondary safety has me wondering, how often do you see something come into the shop with a fastener that has worked loose only to be retained by the lockwire? Or would the tiny amount a fastener can loosen before being stopped by the lockwire make it not noticeable?
I have seen loose fasteners held in place by lockwire 2 times in 20 years. Both times, complete engine destruction was prevented. I think it's worth the time.
Such an important calculation! What about to count weight of all dust and dirt, which covers the turbine after a flight))
It is 165 parts per million, or 1.65 hundredths of a percent, or 16.5 thousandths of a one percent, or 1.65E-4 of the engine's weight.
I think if you round up its almost 3 thousandth of 1% not 274 thou. Makes your point even more. Btw 020 under your fingernail will create alot of cuss words
20 minute video about lockwire... sure!
Ahem... we spent a week on it during training. The problem with not knowing, is not knowing what you don't know...
@@AgentJayZ i don't know about that... 😉
have you ever come across a bolt that become un-torqued due to vibration and was only held by the lockwire?
In 15 years, I have seen that happen twice. One of them literally helped avoid the engine failing in service. The other one was not critical.
To answer you un-asked question: I have seen engines destroyed by fasteners that were not correctly locked. Millions in damages.
Zee or Zed, a couple of handy Scrabble tips, Qi is accepted too.
0.000165 is 0.0165% or 16/1000th of one percent - you are still one magnitude too high. Still proves your point even more :-)
Have you ever seen a lock wire failure?
Good question that is asked frequently. Here's the answer I gave just yesterday:
In 15 years, I have seen that happen twice. One time the lockwire literally helped avoid the engine failing in service. The other one was not critical.
To answer you un-asked question: I have seen engines destroyed by fasteners that were not correctly locked. Millions in damages.
@@AgentJayZ so you are saying that failure by the lock wire-er is much more common and costly than failure of the wire itself? Lol
The calculation was heavier than the safety wire.
I was a 68D and 68B in the US Army. now 15D and 15B they are 15D helicopter powertrain repair and 15B powerplant repair. I know lock wire.
wow geekout on patreon!!
Sorry if it’s already been answered, but do modern aircraft turbofans still use lock wire or are there other fastener locking techniques and technology that have superseded this practice?
Yes, and yes. Lock/safety wire is still used, but to a lesser degree nowadays.
The use of self-locking nuts and self-locking thread inserts has been common practice for decades. Lockwire is non-preferred, as are studs.
PS: And tabwashers.
Honestly someone thought the weight of the safety wire on an engine would be an issue? Maybe, maybe if they took ALL the safety wire used on a C-5 it might be an issue on a fighter. But then again with 500lb bombs slung under the wings it really would still be of no consequence.
After mowing the lawn I found a bolt just lying in the grass clippings on the mower. No idea where it came from, couldn't find any hole it was missing from. If I find out where it came from I'm going to drill a small hole in it and lockwire it after reinstalling it.
Let's hope it didn't come of a aircraft because of saving weight by not lock wiring it
Love your work. I thought that the only implication of lock wires would be if they were badly installed on rotating parts with grossly different quantities causing an imbalance.
Generally speaking, rotating parts don't use lock wire to prevent fasteners from backing out, so it isn't even much of a problem in that case.
On the calculation of the dime scenario, did you account for the bathroom visit this morning ........ Just had to ask. This COVID-19 self lock down must be getting to me.
well heck, another age-old question answered!! btw, i'd bet the Orenda data plate weighs as much.. LOL
Is torque turn used in your work? I have learned of it on older Cat engines. The stretching of bolts. Something I never see here. As a learning the foot lbs and torque turn ?? Deg. ?
Now you gotta weigh the lockwire from everything in the Saber that isn't the powerplant!
Also TIL Canadians have dimes
Hey, if I can afford to have a few dozen grams of it on my time attack race car, they can afford to have a few hundred grams of it on a jet aircraft!
Very interesting! Thank you!
I was hit with 4 different adds while watching this whole video, first time this has happened to me. Hope that is a good thing! Love your work! Love your teachings.
Good to know .... uh .... what were we talking about again ?
Why lockwire? I would rather have it then wishing I had it while in flight.
Why do you used pounds and not grams only?
Probably because the manuals used pounds, and he knows that much of his audience uses pounds?
And this is an American engine/plane
There is a agreement about using only metric a long time ago . Oke I 'm a stupid Dutch.
Canadian engine. Aviation started in an era when everyone used the imperial system, and this engine was designed in the late 1940s...
The term "Losing efficiency" doesn't apply, when talking about lockwire weight.
How the hell could you "LOSE" efficiency if lockwire is mandatory? xD
155 + 70 is 225 where I'm from...It must be something different adding grams and such, or it's an aviation thing.
I have much to learn apparently 😅
I don’t recall what he said, but the tare weight of the box top was actually 77 and some odd grams per my recollection, so he may have simply been engaging in rough rounding in his head.
QUESTION? How much performance would you lose if the lock wire was out side the jet.
Hit the big red panic button to find out.
Thank you I love it
If you'll humor a tit for tat on the same subject, concerning installation cost of the various devices and tech wages, is there a better 'modern' solution for lockwire? I would imagine that at some point, self-locking nuts and/or liquid solutions like threadlocker (or some combination thereof) would be more time efficient and yet still cheaper in shop time in the long run versus a higher initial cost for hardware.
Aside from being more difficult to remove with threadlocker and it's not exactly guaranteed to last like lockwire, any immediate downsides come to mind?
CMDR Boom There is certainly a place for self-locking nuts, etc., but lock wire has two important attributes over those examples. The first is, if a fastener tries to come loose, it puts the lock wire into tension, keeping the fastener in place. The second is, it gives a quick visual indication of the integrity of the fasteners. A broken lock wire is a red flag that something went wrong.
There are other things that can be used, such as Safe-T-Cable, but you can't use it on internal engine components. Gas turbine engines get hot too, which renders thread locker useless on the hot parts of the engine. There are a lot of places where self locking hardware is used, but it can't be used everywhere.
This may be a Graham question! Why do engine manufacturers use lockwiring in some applications & self-locking fasteners in others? For example, my old J44 uses screws & self-locking nuts to attach the turbine 'blisk' to the rotor shaft but lockwirng is used to secure the fuel manifold attachment screws (#10--32 socket head) to the combustion chamber. Both locations are probably pretty hot but cooling air is blasting at them as well so??? I'm not this educated!
DD
it's not really the weight, but the location - you want that engine to be trimmed and balanced. if that link doesn't do anything then why is it there? if you were competing in the tour de france, would you check your pockets for dimes first? Einstein tells us that the faster something goes, the heavier it gets. and it's not like this is a dead weight, that wire has to be carried all over the place for the life of the engine.
but, in the future, you have my blessing to ignore stupid questions.
I thought Lock wire is also called Safety wire??? Gen Aviation trem???
Thanks , Ken
1 Stale subject by now.
2 Multiple punctuation is a definite red flag.
3 Spelling mistakes are a yellow flag.
My apologies, but rules are rules...
Is it possible that the bolt could ever break the wire?
Happens all the time: put a wrench on the bolt head, turn it CCW, feel a bit of resistance, then bang, safety wire is broken.
Without that, I have never heard of it happening.
Agentjayz: Just heard about crash of one of the Snowbirds CT41's. News reports one crew fatally. really sorry to here that.
Speculation is that the aircraft may have experienced a compressor stall/flameout. I think the CT41 uses the GE J85.
Are you familiar with the J85 engine?
I've never worked on one, but we have the capabilities. That popping sound could have been a lot of things. Once the pilot recovers enough to describe what happened, we can speculate with a bit more chance of getting it right.
Again, awsome Video! But ;) For the fun of it.. how much would two nuts with lock wire (2 cm apart) way compared to two self-locking nuts ? ;)
PS: read this as a joke ;-)
-A
Fuel nozzle wrench hanging up at 13:16, are you a graduate of the GT program? Currently enrolled in GT55 and just finished mine
GT19! I lost a point for putting a mark at the base of the hexagon. I really wanted to put the year I made it on there, but they told me it would cost 4 points. Now, I use it for the highest possible position of honor: It is a fantastic beer opener.
Yes I have a C-20 in the shop. Have you seen the stock tool? it actually works better. Still, I love the tool they made me make.
92/100
@@AgentJayZ The wrench project is amazing for getting students familiar with hand tools and teaches you a lot without you really noticing.
Your many videos inspired me to start a career in aviation so thank you for what you do, I just finished my C20B project and i loved every second of it. The dream is to be apart of a passionate MRO shop like yours. Many of my classmates watched your lockwire video when we began, so your influence is continuing throughout BCIT to this day lol!
I wish you much success in the future. All of my fellow students, and a couple of my instructors who thought my dreams were silly... well, I am here to tell you that you can get wherever you want.
I own a shop that builds fighter jet engines...
Dude, every word of that is true. You can do that too.
my dude you can get a scale that goes up to a kilo for 50-100 bucks where the hell are you looking for scales that they cost that much???
He's looking for scales that are certified and extremely accurate and repeatable, because saving a few dollars on a scale and having an engine shake itself to bits because a turbine blade was the wrong weight, isn't a good business plan lol
I have feeling that those $30 - $100 scales will not come with paper which is telling who did calibrate that specific scale and when + real signature from that calibrator (not printed, but signed manually with pen).
i didnt know they were used for weighing parts. i thought it was just a regular scale.
Accuracy and reliability dictate the price. I once made the mistake of buying a cheap pocket-scale for weighing out a few grams or few hundred milligrams at a time. Then was most disturbed to note when testing it out that the weight (of the same item) varied enormously depending on whether it was centred on the weighing pan, or slightly off-centre in any direction. So it was good for telling if one thing was heavier than another, but for getting an accurate weight was utterly meaningless.
The scales I use for weighing compressor and turbine blades is accurate to 1/100 of a gram. It's important to accurately weigh the blades so you can plot them properly.
awesome ! i love the lockwire
i dont want to by 16 different sizes ie gauge of wire for lashing the handgrips and what not on my skootr,r8?
what say you for a do it all non aircraft size of wire
Care to restate that? My translator doesn't handle gibberish.
99% of the time we use 0.032". It's by far the most common size. 0.040 is too thick, like using rebar, and we are halfway through a ten year old roll of the stuff.
0.025 or 0.020 is only for electrical connectors, but you can use .032 for those easily.
@@AgentJayZ Agreed. I have 0.025", 0.032" and 0.040" on my bench, but the 0.032" is the only roll that ever needs replacing.
@@AgentJayZ thankx thanks agent! I have found myself when I grip the wire to to do a pull and twist on it that I sometimes grip the wire so that the tail is over the top of the runner in the jaws
But I am assuming this is not a good thing because the runner is deformed with a saddle so to speak ,this could be considered weakening with a stress concentration,r8?
[do not take seriously voice]:
Aktchually, every gram counts and the weight of lock wire makes a unaceptable loss of performance.
I know this because I removed the brakes of my truck and now it flies, even in corners.
you might be joking , ua-cam.com/video/mdROhLTKK-A/v-deo.html
@@fuzzy1dk we'all need is Darwin's Second Coming, this is getting too ridiculous.
Can you tell who lock-wired a bolt by their technique? Thanks AgentJayZ....
There are a few particular styles, but I don't know everybody, and some of the lockwire I encounter was installed in the 1950s...
You can't tell who did it but in many cases, you can tell who DIDN'T do it. It kicks some peoples' butts, even experienced people but most applications really aren't hard. You know your skill level when you can do the upside down & backwards safties.
How much does the Pilot's last meal weigh?
Pilot is unavailable.
Need calibrated reference.
How much does AgentJayZ's next dinner weigh?
Good thing it's not rotational mass!
We all know the REAL age-old question is "Why isn't the fan turning?".
I've long since lost any sense of humor about this question.
Your Questions Answered #1.
Just say the weight is less than the percentage difference that a pilot makes when they take a dump vs. not taking one before take off. I.e. negligible.
And almost certainly within the margin of error of the fuel weight.
Yes, to a jet engine, 0.4 lbs of fuel is the same as "nothing".