I just bought one of these from MPB UK. It cost £129 and I paid £17 for a three year warranty. I'm pleased I did as it has an early serial number and no mirror strips. The camera is awesome! Several people have asked me how I get those colours.
I am happy I have the 5D with serial number 35 etc. Did not know Canon fixed that problem. I own this camera for a long time, bought it new. Never sold it, bought the 5D mark II, witch I sold when buying a Canon 6D. I love my 6D. But the last weeks I using my older camera's, the Canon 1D mark II n and today I used my 5D again. I am a real enthousiast amateur, not a proffesional who take the most from the camera's. I think I am going to use the 5D more in the future. Simple strong camera, beautiful results. Tnx for your nice vlog!
I've just had it happen to me now, and my serial number begins with a 21 but my example of the 5D is in pretty good shape and looks like it has always been a spare/second camera to somebody. I now own it for about 6 weeks and have made over 10k+ photo's already(nothing noteworthy tho, just to explore the camera by trial & error). I never had so much fun with a camera before, I absolutely love the output that it gives and will absolutely never sell it.
I got a 1 series at Christmas and my mirror fell off and damaged my focusing screen. No black strips. I knew it had been well looked after by the chap I got it from and with a shutter count of just over 2000. It was his backup camera. I was very confident about replacing the mirror using superglue. If anyone does have a go themselves, just the tiniest spot on the 4 black dots on the back of the mirror. Use a cocktail stick because of the sharp wooden point, holding little glue. Superglue is so powerful and the reason for a tiny spot is because the glue will spread as the mirror is placed back onto the plastic base. Excerpt a tiny bit of pressure using a cloth so as not to fingerprint the mirror itself. You must be absolutely sure to only let go of the mirror if you are sure it is in the right place. Also only do this fix if you are confident. I left the lens cap off for a couple of hours leaving a cloth sat over the open hole to keep dust out. Superglue can fume, so you don't want to shut that inside the body. Better to be over-cautious. To defend myself, I was happy to glue the mirror. Seek professional services if you have the slightest doubt.
@@antonyhalls5322 Nice to hear! I recently bought a 5D Classic and it's an early production (s/n 1330xxxxxx) and it looks like the mirror hasn't been reattached. I'm mentally ready that one day the mirror will fall and I'll have to glue it back :)
i have owened a few of these, great cameras. Just be aware that even with the mirror fix, things can still go wrong. Mine had had the fix as the video shows and still come lose, i purchsed second hand on ebay and looking at the mirror, one of the brackets has broken off at some point in it's life before i purchsed it so sadly come lose. I'm glad i've watched this video so i can see what a compete fix looks like, I'll certainly be more careful in the future, thanks Richard.
Thank you for this info. I bought my 5D about 6 years ago, and have hear about the mirror problem but did not know how to tell how Canon had fixed it. I just checked mine and it has been fix by Canon. Thanks Again 👍
Believe it or not, Canon actually fixed my 5D Classic mirror in early 2019. I found out from my own research and found out about this common problem and how they offered a fix back in the day. The person I spoke to was so helpful but I couldn’t believe they offered to fix it. ( I think they felt sorry for me)
Great video Richard thanks. I have a 1 series which has signs of glue down the sides so someone has done a repair at some point, fingers crossed all good now, I’ve had it a year. I also have a three series and all looks clean and normal. Great cameras which I moved onto from my 30d which is still as perfect as when it was new.
Richard Barley the screens essentially are identical. The bodywork around the screen on the 3 has a very slightly matter finish but it’s marginal and may even be so as has had less handling. The screen on the 1 series lost its colour range a while back, but I flicked the screen with my finger one day and it all came back, so a loose connection in there most likely. Both take great images still.
Been looking for one myself and came across one with a serial number starting with 25 but doesn’t have the reinforcement bars. Did Canon only introduce them towards the end of the 2 serial numbers?
Hi. Thanks for this video. I have a 5D i that has a serial number beginning 966077xxxx. It also has the reinforcement that you show in the picture. All the best, Michael.
that sounds like a late one, i have seen late serial number 5d classic cameras without the reinforced mirror strips very confusing thanks for your comment😀
@@RichardBarleyphoto You do know that canon issued a free fix for every 5d back then, right? Some just didnt bother and never got the mirror fix. Thats how you explain this situation. Nothing else. They did improve the glue, but that doesnt seem to change that every earlier model is faulty.
hey richard! i got a 24******* without the strip... should i put superglue on it now or do u think the 24****** is safe like it is now? and how do i know if i got the better display? much love and keep on doing the great stuff! sven
Hi... I glued the mirror back on my canons 5d. I have two of them. The one is working fine but the other one misses focus by 2-3cm. The focus point in the picture is not what I see on the viewfinder. Do you have an idea what the problem could be? Ty
at least you have two and so you can trouble shoot the problem, is it back focusing behind the subject? use the two different bodies with the same lens to test
I don't know for sure, but when I put the mirror back in mine, the focus was BETTER than it had ever been before, at least it seems far more accurate to me. So possibly the mirror may have some impact? It really seemed to have an impact for me. Although I assume there is a specific focus unit set at the factory, maybe that has shifted.
Just bought a s/n 01 and the mirror has not fell yet, should I put dab of super glue on the bottom? is there a way to tell the shutter count, thx for videos, I'm having fun, getting my mind off the world
Dont worry just use it and enjoy it, a blob of glue will not stop it if it wants to fly off. If it does the viewfinder will go black, take the lens of carefully and retreive the mirror, then google how to fix it. Here is my list of 5D batteries etc bit.ly/5D-Classic-List
Hello, my 5d is working fine but has not the mirror fix attached. How can I prevent that the mirror falls of? Should I use some glue even if it's still in place?
If the mirror is held in by a brittle adhesive, would it make sense the 5Ds that have had the mirror issue possibly have encountered some kind of shock to the camera body that instigated the failure?
@@RichardBarleyphoto It seems so unusual for Canon, they have always boasted about their environmental and shake and shock tests since the 1970s. I believe the 5Ds shutters are rated at 150,000 actuation's. The glue should have been validated during environmental testing before release. Its possible this condition slipped by due to a improper manufacturing process (surface contamination) or the bonds longevity over time was not calculated properly. Yesterday I picked up a near mint condition 5D that shows hardly any use. It looks like it just came out of the box. The mirror bracket does not show any modification. Do you know of any way to verify shutter count on these early 5Ds? Also, with a serial number starting with "112xxxxxxx" any guesses on a manufacturing date?
I bought this camera in 2008 and I still use my 5d Classic for some portraits with 135mm L and its amazing. Sadly just cant fix some back/front focus on my two lenses (28mm USM and 24mm Art) for landscapes. Did you have any problem similar in the last years?
I've been so happy using mine for around 1.5 years now and today the mirror finally fell off (luckily it's all safe). I can't identify a single figure on the serial number, it's completely washed away. *Is there any other way to figure it out?* And, obviously, it was never reinforced, so I'll have to look for official or third party service... while there's still a lockdown and most facilities are closed. Damn. I'm frustrated.
Hi Paul, as long as your mirror is ok thats the main thing. Its a horrible feeling when they do fall off, I know it well. The serial number will start with a 0 or 1. I dont like poiting people in the direction of doing the job themselves but there are you tube videos showing you how to do it. Very little glue is the key.
@@RichardBarleyphoto Thank you. The serial number on my copy has vanished. It's a clear silver plate now (I'd show you if I could attach a picture of the camera bottom) =))) It is strange to me if there's no other way to figure out the body origin when the paint is completely faded. They should've better imprinted it into the body material itself. Anyway, judging by the worn hot shoe the camera had been used professionally and quite extensively before me. While overall, the body is in good condition and I am really cherishing it =) I've looked through many articles and tutorials but still afraid to fix it myself. As I have few more APS-C bodies and I can wait, I'll see if I can find a specialist for that. The sad thing is that you inspired me to create a dedicated playlist about 5D on my channel in Russian language and I've shot three episodes of talking stuff already... and now can't shoot sample pictures for demonstration. Well.. now there'll be a video on mirror fix as well 😃
@@RichardBarleyphoto 5D series is not on the air yet (three episodes shot but not edited) and most of my content is in Russian, but I have some gear videos in English too. For your convenience I'll put them all to a separate playlist later.
@@PaulKretz I know this is a very old comment by now, but have you tried some of the software that came with it/or might be available through canon somehow? Like for shutter count and such. It might give away the serial number as well?
HI Richard, just bought my first 5D Classic a few days ago due to your and many others' reviews :) There's just one problem left, the previous owner put his name in the "Creator and Copyright" Place in the image information and I don't know how I can change that. Have you got any experience with that? Some forums say EOS Utility would be the only way, but I can't find the download on the Canon USA page for the 5D Classic...so do you know how to do it? ...btw amazing videos on the 5D Classic which inspired me to even get this camera, keep going! :D
You need to use a version of EOS utility that came out in 2006 or so, and it only recognizes your camera if you're running windows XP, so the easiest way is to install a virtual machine of windows XP, then install the old version of EOS utility on it. Without that it is impossible to change any of those settings because the PC will not recognize the camera properly, otherwise all you will be able to do is plug it in and access images.
to be honest no. There is another small battery inside. Does anyone here have any advice. I would google for a one man band camera repair shop in your area, there is always someone who can help
Good question, I recently sold one with serial no 34xxxxxxxxx and it had the new better screen. Mine has the old screen 01xxxxxxxxx. I know that some had different low pass filters as well on the early cameras. I have always convinced myself that my original early body produced a slightly different image to the back up body, you can send yourself crazy looking at all the things. My advice is just to buy the best one you can find and use it.
@@RichardBarleyphoto thanks for the response, yeah I have one and love it. They truly are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'd have to assume mines the early version since the screen is pretty bad, however I've learned understand what's good and what's bad. If you're interested you should check out my Instagram page. Up until december it was almost only the classic. But now I use the 5d mkii since the live view in my case can be priceless
Any advice for tightening up the hotshoe? I have a 1 series that was sent in for the mirror fix, but the hotshoe wiggles a lot. Also, what changed about the LCD?
the newer back screen looks warmer slightly and richer/sharper. I have had one recently on a 34xxxxxx camera (i wish i had kept it and not sold it on now) The newer screen is better but to be honest i only review the histogram and the small image at a wedding very quickly and so it does not matter to me.
@@unbroken1010 Yes, the mirror came lose, it fell off, I looked around for information and people talked about gluing it back in. Super glue is what you need. I used 4 very small drops, on in each corner of the mirror following directions for the glue, I held it in place applying a moderate pressure for maybe 30 seconds or what the glue called for, let it dry overnight 24 hours, since they said on the package allowing 24 hours would make the strongest bond, and it has been perfectly fine for quite some time. It is still working fine. Some people claimed it would cause issues and to use some other form of adhesive, well it has been NO problem, the mirror if well affixed, nicely reflective, you would never know it fell off. Just practice without the glue a couple times and also practice getting tiny amounts of the glue from the applicator. I used maybe a pin head amount on each corner? They say less is more with this kind of glue. Works great.
On your notion of what happens to motorcars towards the end of models life is the opposite. There is cost cutting done throughout the models life, where suppliers are requested to cost cut a certain percentage every year and also some features of the car taken away for cost cutting purposes and not they perfect the model towards the end of it's life. A new model of car is developed for four years prior to it's launch and this involves supplier component testing and test tracking testing, but manufacturers are trying to reduce that test track development period with better simulated testing methods and machinery.
I love that you're still making these. Keep these beast going for as long as possible!
That's the plan! thanks for your comment😀
I just bought one of these from MPB UK. It cost £129 and I paid £17 for a three year warranty. I'm pleased I did as it has an early serial number and no mirror strips. The camera is awesome! Several people have asked me how I get those colours.
I am happy I have the 5D with serial number 35 etc. Did not know Canon fixed that problem. I own this camera for a long time, bought it new. Never sold it, bought the 5D mark II, witch I sold when buying a Canon 6D. I love my 6D. But the last weeks I using my older camera's, the Canon 1D mark II n and today I used my 5D again. I am a real enthousiast amateur, not a proffesional who take the most from the camera's. I think I am going to use the 5D more in the future. Simple strong camera, beautiful results. Tnx for your nice vlog!
Thanks for your comment, I have never used the 6D
Thanks for the explaining ...... Finally I got the whole picture about the 5D Classic mirror's issue ~~
no problem
I've just had it happen to me now, and my serial number begins with a 21 but my example of the 5D is in pretty good shape and looks like it has always been a spare/second camera to somebody.
I now own it for about 6 weeks and have made over 10k+ photo's already(nothing noteworthy tho, just to explore the camera by trial & error).
I never had so much fun with a camera before, I absolutely love the output that it gives and will absolutely never sell it.
I got a 1 series at Christmas and my mirror fell off and damaged my focusing screen. No black strips. I knew it had been well looked after by the chap I got it from and with a shutter count of just over 2000. It was his backup camera. I was very confident about replacing the mirror using superglue. If anyone does have a go themselves, just the tiniest spot on the 4 black dots on the back of the mirror. Use a cocktail stick because of the sharp wooden point, holding little glue. Superglue is so powerful and the reason for a tiny spot is because the glue will spread as the mirror is placed back onto the plastic base. Excerpt a tiny bit of pressure using a cloth so as not to fingerprint the mirror itself. You must be absolutely sure to only let go of the mirror if you are sure it is in the right place. Also only do this fix if you are confident. I left the lens cap off for a couple of hours leaving a cloth sat over the open hole to keep dust out. Superglue can fume, so you don't want to shut that inside the body. Better to be over-cautious. To defend myself, I was happy to glue the mirror. Seek professional services if you have the slightest doubt.
Its one of those jobs that you have to be confident with. I am sure you will all find a repair centre who are prepared to do a similar thing
@antonyhalls5322 Has the repair been durable or has the mirror fallen off again?
@@Terrieri1000 Mirror has not fallen off again. Thanks for asking.
@@antonyhalls5322 Nice to hear! I recently bought a 5D Classic and it's an early production (s/n 1330xxxxxx) and it looks like the mirror hasn't been reattached. I'm mentally ready that one day the mirror will fall and I'll have to glue it back :)
@@Terrieri1000 That's is good to hear. If it does and you try it my way, just be careful and take your time.
i have owened a few of these, great cameras. Just be aware that even with the mirror fix, things can still go wrong. Mine had had the fix as the video shows and still come lose, i purchsed second hand on ebay and looking at the mirror, one of the brackets has broken off at some point in it's life before i purchsed it so sadly come lose. I'm glad i've watched this video so i can see what a compete fix looks like, I'll certainly be more careful in the future, thanks Richard.
Glad it helped
Thank you for this info. I bought my 5D about 6 years ago, and have hear about the mirror problem but did not know how to tell how Canon had fixed it. I just checked mine and it has been fix by Canon. Thanks Again 👍
Believe it or not, Canon actually fixed my 5D Classic mirror in early 2019. I found out from my own research and found out about this common problem and how they offered a fix back in the day. The person I spoke to was so helpful but I couldn’t believe they offered to fix it. ( I think they felt sorry for me)
Wow that is good
Great video Richard thanks. I have a 1 series which has signs of glue down the sides so someone has done a repair at some point, fingers crossed all good now, I’ve had it a year. I also have a three series and all looks clean and normal. Great cameras which I moved onto from my 30d which is still as perfect as when it was new.
they just keep going. i wondered does your rear screen look different on the two different cameras. 1xxxxx and 3xxxxx
Richard Barley the screens essentially are identical. The bodywork around the screen on the 3 has a very slightly matter finish but it’s marginal and may even be so as has had less handling. The screen on the 1 series lost its colour range a while back, but I flicked the screen with my finger one day and it all came back, so a loose connection in there most likely. Both take great images still.
Been looking for one myself and came across one with a serial number starting with 25 but doesn’t have the reinforcement bars. Did Canon only introduce them towards the end of the 2 serial numbers?
None of us really know, I look for serial numbers starting with a 3
Hi. Thanks for this video. I have a 5D i that has a serial number beginning 966077xxxx. It also has the reinforcement that you show in the picture. All the best, Michael.
that sounds like a late one, i have seen late serial number 5d classic cameras without the reinforced mirror strips very confusing thanks for your comment😀
@@RichardBarleyphoto You do know that canon issued a free fix for every 5d back then, right?
Some just didnt bother and never got the mirror fix.
Thats how you explain this situation. Nothing else. They did improve the glue, but that doesnt seem to change that every earlier model is faulty.
Hey so if you are looking at serial numbers without zero or 1 its worth getting
Look for a 2 or 3 at the start
@@RichardBarleyphoto thank you
Have you ever had the mirror motor go out? My mirror has stopped flipping up out of he way when taking a shot
No never had that problem
Hi there, do you think the mirror could damage the lens when it falls off? I'm worried because I've just bought a pricey lens.
It could smash the rear element of the potentially
Thank you for showing exactly what to look for on the mirror 👍
Whereas great for black and white, I'm frustrated with the autofocus in the 5D.
hey richard!
i got a 24******* without the strip... should i put superglue on it now or do u think the 24****** is safe like it is now?
and how do i know if i got the better display?
much love and keep on doing the great stuff!
sven
Hi... I glued the mirror back on my canons 5d. I have two of them. The one is working fine but the other one misses focus by 2-3cm. The focus point in the picture is not what I see on the viewfinder. Do you have an idea what the problem could be?
Ty
at least you have two and so you can trouble shoot the problem, is it back focusing behind the subject? use the two different bodies with the same lens to test
I don't know for sure, but when I put the mirror back in mine, the focus was BETTER than it had ever been before, at least it seems far more accurate to me. So possibly the mirror may have some impact? It really seemed to have an impact for me. Although I assume there is a specific focus unit set at the factory, maybe that has shifted.
Dang it I bought one recently and it’s a 1 starting serial number. Lol wish me luck it’s in excellent condition. No wear anywhere.
Don’t worry just use it, you can always glue it back on
Just bought a s/n 01 and the mirror has not fell yet, should I put dab of super glue on the bottom? is there a way to tell the shutter count, thx for videos, I'm having fun, getting my mind off the world
Dont worry just use it and enjoy it, a blob of glue will not stop it if it wants to fly off. If it does the viewfinder will go black, take the lens of carefully and retreive the mirror, then google how to fix it. Here is my list of 5D batteries etc bit.ly/5D-Classic-List
Hello, my 5d is working fine but has not the mirror fix attached. How can I prevent that the mirror falls of? Should I use some glue even if it's still in place?
do not touch it, just enjoy your camera and dont worry
If the mirror is held in by a brittle adhesive, would it make sense the 5Ds that have had the mirror issue possibly have encountered some kind of shock to the camera body that instigated the failure?
Don’t think so, it’s just the wrong glue
@@RichardBarleyphoto It seems so unusual for Canon, they have always boasted about their environmental and shake and shock tests since the 1970s. I believe the 5Ds shutters are rated at 150,000 actuation's. The glue should have been validated during environmental testing before release. Its possible this condition slipped by due to a improper manufacturing process (surface contamination) or the bonds longevity over time was not calculated properly. Yesterday I picked up a near mint condition 5D that shows hardly any use. It looks like it just came out of the box. The mirror bracket does not show any modification. Do you know of any way to verify shutter count on these early 5Ds? Also, with a serial number starting with "112xxxxxxx" any guesses on a manufacturing date?
I bought this camera in 2008 and I still use my 5d Classic for some portraits with 135mm L and its amazing. Sadly just cant fix some back/front focus on my two lenses (28mm USM and 24mm Art) for landscapes. Did you have any problem similar in the last years?
back focussing is something i will never accept, try another body thanks for your comment
I've been so happy using mine for around 1.5 years now and today the mirror finally fell off (luckily it's all safe). I can't identify a single figure on the serial number, it's completely washed away. *Is there any other way to figure it out?* And, obviously, it was never reinforced, so I'll have to look for official or third party service... while there's still a lockdown and most facilities are closed. Damn. I'm frustrated.
Hi Paul, as long as your mirror is ok thats the main thing. Its a horrible feeling when they do fall off, I know it well. The serial number will start with a 0 or 1. I dont like poiting people in the direction of doing the job themselves but there are you tube videos showing you how to do it. Very little glue is the key.
@@RichardBarleyphoto Thank you. The serial number on my copy has vanished. It's a clear silver plate now (I'd show you if I could attach a picture of the camera bottom) =))) It is strange to me if there's no other way to figure out the body origin when the paint is completely faded. They should've better imprinted it into the body material itself. Anyway, judging by the worn hot shoe the camera had been used professionally and quite extensively before me. While overall, the body is in good condition and I am really cherishing it =) I've looked through many articles and tutorials but still afraid to fix it myself. As I have few more APS-C bodies and I can wait, I'll see if I can find a specialist for that.
The sad thing is that you inspired me to create a dedicated playlist about 5D on my channel in Russian language and I've shot three episodes of talking stuff already... and now can't shoot sample pictures for demonstration. Well.. now there'll be a video on mirror fix as well 😃
I will have a look at your channel
@@RichardBarleyphoto 5D series is not on the air yet (three episodes shot but not edited) and most of my content is in Russian, but I have some gear videos in English too. For your convenience I'll put them all to a separate playlist later.
@@PaulKretz I know this is a very old comment by now, but have you tried some of the software that came with it/or might be available through canon somehow? Like for shutter count and such. It might give away the serial number as well?
HI Richard, just bought my first 5D Classic a few days ago due to your and many others' reviews :) There's just one problem left, the previous owner put his name in the "Creator and Copyright" Place in the image information and I don't know how I can change that. Have you got any experience with that? Some forums say EOS Utility would be the only way, but I can't find the download on the Canon USA page for the 5D Classic...so do you know how to do it? ...btw amazing videos on the 5D Classic which inspired me to even get this camera, keep going! :D
i dont know, i will take a look when i have some time
You need to use a version of EOS utility that came out in 2006 or so, and it only recognizes your camera if you're running windows XP, so the easiest way is to install a virtual machine of windows XP, then install the old version of EOS utility on it. Without that it is impossible to change any of those settings because the PC will not recognize the camera properly, otherwise all you will be able to do is plug it in and access images.
Hey Richard my Canon 5D has died a few days ago. It won't turn on anymore. Have you ever had this issue ?
to be honest no. There is another small battery inside. Does anyone here have any advice. I would google for a one man band camera repair shop in your area, there is always someone who can help
Speaking of serial numbers how do you know if you have that version 2 of the 5d classic that you were speaking of with the better screen?
Good question, I recently sold one with serial no 34xxxxxxxxx and it had the new better screen. Mine has the old screen 01xxxxxxxxx. I know that some had different low pass filters as well on the early cameras. I have always convinced myself that my original early body produced a slightly different image to the back up body, you can send yourself crazy looking at all the things. My advice is just to buy the best one you can find and use it.
@@RichardBarleyphoto thanks for the response, yeah I have one and love it. They truly are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'd have to assume mines the early version since the screen is pretty bad, however I've learned understand what's good and what's bad. If you're interested you should check out my Instagram page. Up until december it was almost only the classic. But now I use the 5d mkii since the live view in my case can be priceless
@@stevensager2854 will take a look
Any advice for tightening up the hotshoe? I have a 1 series that was sent in for the mirror fix, but the hotshoe wiggles a lot.
Also, what changed about the LCD?
the newer back screen looks warmer slightly and richer/sharper. I have had one recently on a 34xxxxxx camera (i wish i had kept it and not sold it on now) The newer screen is better but to be honest i only review the histogram and the small image at a wedding very quickly and so it does not matter to me.
Hi! Need some advice, i found a steal price for the 5d but the shutter count is about 90k, has your 5d gone past 100k actuation before?
you can not measure the shutter count as far as I know,????
I can tell you that those serial numbers starting with a 2 still have the problem. But, some super glue carefully used, seems to solve the problem.
thanks for this John I have never seen a 2xxxxxxx with the reinforced mirror.
Really that's all you did
@@unbroken1010 Yes, the mirror came lose, it fell off, I looked around for information and people talked about gluing it back in. Super glue is what you need. I used 4 very small drops, on in each corner of the mirror following directions for the glue, I held it in place applying a moderate pressure for maybe 30 seconds or what the glue called for, let it dry overnight 24 hours, since they said on the package allowing 24 hours would make the strongest bond, and it has been perfectly fine for quite some time. It is still working fine. Some people claimed it would cause issues and to use some other form of adhesive, well it has been NO problem, the mirror if well affixed, nicely reflective, you would never know it fell off. Just practice without the glue a couple times and also practice getting tiny amounts of the glue from the applicator. I used maybe a pin head amount on each corner? They say less is more with this kind of glue. Works great.
On your notion of what happens to motorcars towards the end of models life is the opposite. There is cost cutting done throughout the models life, where suppliers are requested to cost cut a certain percentage every year and also some features of the car taken away for cost cutting purposes and not they perfect the model towards the end of it's life. A new model of car is developed for four years prior to it's launch and this involves supplier component testing and test tracking testing, but manufacturers are trying to reduce that test track development period with better simulated testing methods and machinery.
I used superglue.
seems to be the way to go