To me, the most likely reason WCW wins the war is if Vince decides in 1996/1997 not to push the envelope but stubbornly decides to double down on being the family friendly almost kiddie wrestling show that WWF was doing for 1995.
Even then I think WCW was doomed, the WWF at least had the willingness to push young talent. WCW failed to learn this lesson time and time again. Hogan, Nash and Hall etc were just unwilling to let anyone else get over.
@@corneliussmiff2773 All of that is true, however, you have to keep the timeline in mind. If the WWF keeps going down by doubling down on kiddie wrestling they might have been out of business by the end of 1998. WCW was always going to be a victim of the Time Warner merger in 2001. So WCW wins the war but their victory doesn't guarantee their long term existence.
One of the biggest downfalls for the company was not having a post-NWO plan, they just kept bringing it back and bringing it back more watered down than the last time and everybody was just sick of it.
I would say the biggest thing that hurt WCW was not evolving. 1998 was profitable and still interesting. 1999 was when they started to lose money and interest. And look at the direction of the company. It went from new star Goldberg as champion and new star DDP rising to the top back to dinosaur Hogan as the champ. Then a major blunder of making Hogan Hulk again. Yes, DDP became champion in 1999, but other than him ot was mostly old stars put to the top. If anything, I think the new nWo at the end of the year was actually interesting, and things may have bode better for WCW if Bret wasn't injured and ut continued. Nevertheless, I think your point is similar to mime whereas they just didn't know how to move on. Even specifically with the nWo it would have been better if it ended with a war instead of the group fading into jobbers.
I really think the biggest issue was that WCW failed to build up a strong internal force to resist the invasion right off the bat. When Hall and Nash came out with baseball bats and were able to keep 6 WCW guys and 10+ police officers at bay, it made WCW look extremely weak. During the one-sided feud, very few WCW guys benefitted from their interactions with the nWo. I know Goldberg and DDP are probably the best examples for any semblance of long-term plans, but it was too little too late for both of them. When Goldberg got his title, WWF re-established itself above the ratings leaderboard, and when DDP got his first one, WWF was in the middle of their 120 week win streak that would last until WCW closed its doors. The Wolfpac was the first true babyface incarnation to challenge the nWo on equal footing, and fans were already starting to lose interest in the nWo by late 1997. It also doesn't help that Sting was supposed to be the face of WCW, but he not only joins the nWo, but Nash is the leader. Sting should have been the leader of any face faction he was put in, full stop.
@@aspectra That's some good points. However nWo needed to look like a nearly unstoppable threat at the beginning. As the original comment said, they didn't have a post nWo plan. It was just nWo doing run ins, and neither WCW or nWo winning their kayfabe war. A lot of people dislike Sting in nWo. Teaming with villains... Nash being the reason Hogan has the title back via the matches with Savage. Anyone who's watched The Crowe would find it laughable for thr character to join the gang that killed him in a sequel. DDP should have been champion in 1998. By 1999 it was too late with the company on a desperate downward spiral.
I don't know where people get this idea that the Rock is a WWE lifer when he left for Hollywood after a 6 year career cause the pay was better. So you're telling me that if they offered a 25 yr old kid two million a year he's turning it down?
It's likely because of Eric Bischoff that Eric and hogan both have been connected to McMahon secretly to sabotage wcw might even have allowed Kevin Nash as a booker
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I hear you, but I guarantee he would've talked to guys like Bret and Hall/Nash about the pros and cons of WCW before signing. The pay and schedule would've been great, but the lack of structure and backstage politics might've soured him on jumping.
If WCW bought WWF, only for them to get canned as a result of the AOL Warner Bros merger. Wrestling as we know it would be dead, especially with the rise of UFC. Vince McMahon deserves his credit
Thank Paul Heyman for Austin, he allowed him to vent in ECW after being fired from WCW. His Hogan promo's were notorious before 3;16 became infamous !!
@@straingedays you're not wrong but at the same time what Paul Heyman did by letting Austin vent out his frustrations had nothing to do with the success he had in the WWF. U gotta remember Austin came in as the ring master n had Ted Dibiase be his mouth piece.
I think it's even crazier that Austin, HHH, Foley, Taker, and Kane all came from WCW. Hogan, Hall, Nash, Macho all came from big runs in WWF. Yes, I know Hall and Nash were previously in WCW, but they got their recognition in WWF.
@@king_eternal WWE was always better at creating star wrestlers than WCW, besides DDP and Goldberg most of WCW’s late 90’s stars were stars already creating in WWF and ECW
@@straingedays I only saw clips of Austin's hulk Hogan promos decades after he did them. If my memory is right, Steve wasn't in the original ecw very long.
Stop paying millions of dollars to contracted wrestlers who aren't being used on TV would have helped WCW from vomiting money until they went out of business.
You're totally right but even with that considered, it was really more of a PR move by AOL as they didn't want to be associated with a wrestling brand. It's a super interesting story.
most wrestlers were getting over paid. they didn't have to actually wrestle that much it was mostly story and to very bad writing at that too. Most wrestlers were either super outta shape , on steroids or on drugs.
I heard the wcw had such a big roster that they paid them to stay home rather than use them as enhanced talent on house shows. They had so much talent it was sad and no idea how to develop and promote them.
An example of this was Lanny poffo, allegedly he was hired by wcw and paid crazy money to sit at home and not be on tv. If Lanny poffo was on WCW tv, for even one match on tv, I never saw it
I agree with you wcw needed storylines, money and a superstar not a wrestler. Goldberg was a superstar but a one dimensional one. The Rock was a true TV star. The story with nwo was perfect. It's hard to think of anyone other than the rock who could go up against stone cold.
Very interesting Dave . If Rocky could have became the same Rock in WCW as he did in the WWF , then yeah absolutely it would have been a game changer . A Brett vs Rock match would be fire as well ! Especially if Goldberg was on the side like you said . That could have prevented the situation with him and Brett perhaps . Regardless , I love thinking about alternate timelines in the wrestling universe and how certain events could change the landscape drastically .
Having watched Reliving the War you can tell that they had a lot of talented people they wasted so much potential on. Also, didnt David Arquette think that what happened with him was a horrible idea too?
If wCw spends so much time on productivity and less on spending but how about if Jim Crockett promotions was still around WCW would still be a success.
You are totally right about cutting half of the roster and never ever having The NWO get bigger then 4 or 5 members would done a lot for there product. 1 big thing I would havedone is cut the number of hours the product was seen on TV in half with limited screen time for the biggiest stars, like WWF did in the 80s with Hogan. You could give more screen time and better storylines for some of the up and coming younger talent like Jercho, benoit and the likes. This would build WCWs future instead of just having older aging former WWF stars past ther prime that diehard fans where growing tired of seeing all the time. Finally keep most of big/best matches off TV, which gives a reason to go to a house show or buy the pay-pre-view. over I feel like less tv time and more quility is what WCW needed most...
I don't know... 1995 Flex Kavana was essentially The Rock version 1.0. So, a part of me thinks that wwe knew what they were doing with Dwayne Johnson, knew he had the mic skills in developmental, said "let's try him as a baby face. If he doesn't get over, we keep pushing. He'll get the ring experience and if they hate him as a face, that makes for an even better heel. Win-win!" But that ignores everything they did with so many other failed pushes.
Great video Dave!🤘😎🤘 The Rock as the leader of the New World Order instead of the Nation of Domination. That sounds like it actually might exist in another universe especially if WCW had by pure chance signed a young Rock by 97 which makes me think of the butterfly effect. Maybe the main event of Starrcade 1999 could have been The Rock defending the WCW World Title against a far better trained Goldberg
One thing you mentioned I would like to play devils advocate on is the use of celebrities. I believe that it isnt the right call to completely abandon the use of celebs, but to use the PROPERLY. I see the benefit of the publicity, and we see that it has benefited WWF/E many times in its history with Lauper, Tyson, mr. T, etc. The way WWE used these celebs gave them large bumps in viewership and some of their greatest moments. But WCW failed with basically every celeb they used. Great video!
Great video Dave I definitely agree with getting rid of the basketball players and celebrities plus any silly deals with musicians (kiss) . I'd still like to see the whole list of who'd you keep/cut from WCW
It was over once Ted Turner merged the company and became hands off. WCW could have been the best wrestling product that was ever seen and had the best business management ever… AOL Time Warner wanted wrestling off their airwaves come hell or high water and without Turner fighting for it anymore they had their chance to get rid of it and did. They didn’t even want to sell it they wanted it to die.
I think what would've hurt wwf if Bret Hart decided to go to WCW in 1996 instead of 1997. Bischoff did make bret an offer of 2.8 million for 3 years, thats why vince gave bret a 20 yr deal ( from Cultaholic Screwed) But if Bret decided to go with WCW, he probably wouldve joined around war games 1996, instead of the Giant joining, Bret Hart would be the 4th man, u got 4 wwf main eventers on one team, meanwhile on wwf, theres no classic matches with Stone cold which solidifies Austin as a main eventer, no formation of the Hart Foundation, and no Montreal Screwjob, even though it was controversial, it caused more people to see what would happen next, owen and davey might have jumped to wcw as well, the only ones left as main eventers on wwf is michaels and undertaker. If Bret joined WCW in 96, i think it wouldve been the downfall of wwf
I like your proposals…interesting stuff. The way I see it, WCW (if they wasn’t such a mess at the time too) really had a shot at stopping a “war” before it even started, somewhere around 94/95, when the WWF was really at a down point. In fact, I can say that for the early to mid 90s in general, especially after the Ultimate Warrior didn’t pan out the way Vince thought he would and the steroid scandal (and don’t forget Wrestlemania 7…ugh!!!).
solid idea, I still think that the main issue is AOL/Timewarner issue is that they didn't want it on TV. No TV, no show. Hence why Easy E's purchase fell through, amongst other reason
Interesting. It would’ve taken a lot more discipline and patience than WCW had, and being able to do it before the shift in momentum and fan appeal in 1998 would’ve been the best strategy
I think if they did the fast count right they still could have that and had Bret make his debut then to send that message of "never again." Then you can have Bret waring with the NWO, and Sting helps even the odds while also teasing that Bret does want the title and then set up a face vs face match between him and Sting.
Goldberg should have been treated more like Andre the Giant back in the day. Andre was an attraction. He never had to be world champion. Goldberg should have been screwed over in some way for the belt, then could seek revenge by destroying whoever cost him the win. Hogan needed the belt to be interesting, Goldberg did not.
I know competition is good but this scenario is a mindblower! Would AEW have formed years later to give WCW a run for their money in this alternative universe or would have it been sooner by 2 to 5 years after destroying WWF? If Tony Khan was a better booker and had a creative team with guys like Jim Cornette and Dutch Mantell giving advice and wisdom, maybe. We shall never know
This is a fun video! My only contention is that it’s made in perfect hindsight. Like saving Goldberg for 2000 is brilliant. But it’s also with foreknowledge of Austin not being there in 2000 that that decision is made. Would love to see a follow up vid that runs through the strategies as if there’s no knowledge of future events.
Honestly I think the way to win the War for Wcw, is to have Sting win the title, have Brett Debut and start a war against the Nwo, maybe have Bulldog and Anvil join him, along with the top Wcw stars like Sting, Luger, Ddp, and maybe some younger stars like Booker T and Benoit. Have Goldberg just train and debut when hes ready and meanwhile have the new team Wcw fight against the Nwo, and even a big Wargames match with just the top guys from both sides, and you can book Starrcade 98 based on if you want Hart vs Sting, or a Nwo member like Hogan, Nash, or Hall involved
I agree 80 percent with you. Disco Inferno was a great low mid card wrestler. If they hire back Marc merro aka Johnny B Badd, those 2 as a tag team will be great competition for wwe too cool. Badd Inferno lol.
One WCW thing I would not change would be the rise of Goldberg. From the start of his run, he quickly became their biggest star and Austin did seem a lot like a Goldberg copycat in many regards. Goldberg, was lightning in a bottle and I don't think his run would have the same impact if you handle it any other way up to the point of ending the streak. That was one of WCW's biggest mistakes. They had a story building up that could have set up any of the following to end the streak: Sting, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Brett Hart (assuming he doesn't get hit with multiple concussions in this timeline as WCW medical are more careful about that here). You see, after the infamous match with Steven "William" Regal, they set him up with a series with Jerry Flynn where they had Flynn make the matches more competitive then your typical early Goldberg squash by having Flynn use amateur techniques to slow Goldberg up with holds. They even started talking about how FLynn's style seemed to be giving Goldberg more problems then any other style. That seemed like they were setting up the angle for either an established main event submission finisher to end the streak, or use it to put a submission mid carder over. By specifically choosing a submission wrestler to get over when it's time to end the streak also gives a payoff to that early angle, and you can still get that epic Goldberg vs DDP PPV match (also better handle the scheduling with that so you don't get a huge loss from the main event going off the air), and the huge pop of Goldberg beating Hogan in front of his former NFL hometown crowd - that's such a memorable and ratings boost moment that you need it to maintain the ratings dominence while setting the next big thing up for toppling WWF. Picking Benoit or Jercho to do the honours would send whichever of them got the push to the moon, being the one to finally end the streak at around the same point it did end at officially, maybe still having the Wolfpack angle and Goldberg vs Nash match, but Goldberg wins and starts his feud with the submission guy who's chosen to defeat him. Maybe even have him feud with a couple of them to give rise to speculation as to which one it will be. This gives a payoff to that early angle I mentioned above of Goldberg has some trouble with submission wrestlers. WCW has already established the no sell as the cornerstone of Goldberg's character, as him being immune to pain, but that the one chink in his armor is wrapping him up in a hold he can't break eventually KO'ing him or wearing him down into a forced submission. I might go with the KO option to get the other guy over without burying the meal ticket. This solves another key factor in the Monday Night war shifting into WWFs favoour, the exodus of mid card WCW talent who were getting frustrated over the glass ceiling and all the WWF and NWA old boys hogging the spotlight. In this reality, WCW does not lose the rising stars like Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guererro, and others who left in the late 90s and early 2000s before WCW finally tanked for good. These guys all went on to become huge stars of the Ruthless Aggression and early PG eras, and in the case of Jericho, also a huge star of AEW to this day. having these mid carders getting over and advancing to the main event scene for WCW rather then WWF/E gives another edge to WCW. Giving them the chance to run with the belt a bit while WCW was still strong and they were still not yet frustrated past the point of no return would be huge for WCW. And yes, bringing in someone of the caliber of The Rock and building him up as effectively as WWF did could tip the scales even more. Have Goldberg take his title in Atlanta, with the Rock working as a Hogan Understudy, have Rock use that loss of the belt as leverage to make his NWO takeover move, which also gives Hogan the perfect excuse to not continue feuding or rematching Goldberg over the title, he's being kept busy by Rock. As we get into 99-2000 era, The Rock and Goldberg can start their dream feud. The Barama Bull vs the immovable object. By this point, you can also let the worn out NWO fade away and make room for the next big heel stable to come up, whatever that may be.
the problem with the Goldberg Streak is they didn't have an end... I think he needed a kryptonitehave his self inflicted arm injury become his achilles heel
WCW could have kept Steve Austin in 95 and lets not forget how over DDP was in 98 where he was considered their people's champion. I would have had Steve Austin vs DDP at Halloween Havoc and make sure the PPV feed doesn't get cut off. DDP wins the title before facing Bret later on at Superbrawl. Either way, I do think they would have at least been kept around if WWF didn't have both Rock or Steve Austin and if Ted kept a limited budget on it.
@@johndavis48076 that feud really needed both guys. I can't imagine Triple H taking Austin's place and I can't imagine Bischoff taking Vince's place in WCW unless he didn't join NWO and they had Steve Austin join instead.
Austin had two great feuds , one before McMahon. The inavison the highest grossing non Wrestmania PPV , It went down hill , because of Triple H ,and Benoit got injured and Steph becoming ECW leader.
You are onto something with delaying Goldberg. That would 1st make hardcore fans happy some rookie doesn't get to the top undeservingly. But there was a WCW,star who was more popular in 1998 who should have been champion. And he could have had the spotlight in 1998. DDP 🙌
Eh...I want to agree, but when Diamond Dallas Page was pushed in the main event, PPV business slumped (I don't count the match with the basketball players, that was Hogan and Rodman, albeit a short term solution). For example, Halloween Havoc '98 drew well below expectations. Spring Stampede '99 was the beginning of the end for WCW. It drew *hugely* below expectations, and that was the one in which DDP won the title. Then again, who knows? DDP going over cleanly at the expense of Hogan at Starrcade '98, for instance, might have changed the public's perception of DDP, might have made him a main event draw.
@markv1274 , That's not really the fault of DDP though. At that point WWF was hard into the Attitude Era, which fans took to. Plus the decline of plot development in WCW. wrestlercan't hold up a company or be blamed for that. As far as those PPVS, while Starcade 97 was the highest draw of all time (which to this day WWF & WWE have not matched it), Bash At The Beach 98 was the 2nd highest draw. So what you're saying isn't accurate. What was a mistake (possibly) was putting Jay Leno in a,tag main event. Maybe that was too far to be taken seriously. Not that I think the plot was bad. WCW was still a thriving company in 1998. It wasn't until 1999 the company lost money. I'm not surprised that String Stampede didn't fair well. I can't speak for all fans, but my expectation was for Sting to win. Nothing wrong with that, but it was just another older guy getting the belt. Maybe some expected Hogan to get it back, and completely turn face again. LAME! As a DDP fan, I was blindsided by the result. I didn't expect the win. I didn't watch the PPV live. I did buy the replay on Wednesday, but I'm a DDP fan, so I wanted to tape it. It wasn't so much the public perception of DDP that needes to change. It was (as I've said a million times since WCW folded) WCW'S perception of "where the WWF has beens go to die' needed to change. DDP's own opinion is that had he been pushed to championship level in 98 he would have been more on the level of Stone Cold.
If Time Warner had sold a majority stake WCW off in 97/98 like they had offers for well at the same time keeping enough investment that they kept them on the air then they could have survived. WCW major problem was there was no one person who the buck stopped with.
If WCW had won the war and put the WWF out of business, Ted Turner would have most likely put Vince McMahon in charge of the new product, so I don't think things would be much different.
For wcw to have won the war or at least not go out of business they wouldve had to do multiple things. 1. Not make the mistake of throwing money at wrestlers who aren't working full time like wwf/e wrestlers. 2. Have more plans in place once the nwo storyline ran its course instead of doing the same thing over and over. 3. Build young wrestlers up and put them in rivalries with the big stars of wcw and have them go over, basic logical strategy. 4. No creative control in anyone's contract. 5. They had a golden opportunity with bret hart and blew it instantly, they should've used the montreal incident to their advantage, something simple like bret coming onto nitro the very next night and cutting a promo against the wwf and Vince McMahon, build some sort of storyline out of it, then have him compete in the main event scene straight away.
While they wound up succeeding, they were vulnerable without their top star. And when I proposed to take away their other top talent, they would have been in a much weaker state
The difference between Vince Jr and WCW is Vince knew how develop, promote and market a star. I don't think wcw knew how to do that with the Rock because Austin they were doing house shows 7 days a week as Austin and Rock was the main event. WCW had no idea how to do that or they would have developed all their talent into a winning promotion.
WCW winning the Monday Night War is interesting though it definitely leaves alot of What If scenarios had they had the right people in charge that understood wrestling.
In my opinion The Rock would have never got over in WCW like he did in WWF, so hiring a Rock before he was a big star would have been bad for WCW and bad for The Rock. Him working with HHH and Stone Cold is what allowed The Rock to become a huge star.
I understand the thought process, but I can't figure how anyone undervalues his charisma or sense of humor. Like it was something he could only get through specific people makes no sense to me
You go through this whole convoluted scenario in order to give WCW the answer to Austin with someone who was never near WCW... while completely ignoring that WCW already had the answer to Steve Austin... it was... wait for it... Steve Austin.
Steve Austin never going there at all would be an easier way to take away WWFs biggest asset. However I thought it was implicit that since I was talking about the Monday Night Wars that I was only including the period during the wars and not anything before
Granted it is in hindsight and all, but The Rock leaving for WCW in 96 is a stretch. I wonder what someone, like maybe a Jim Cornette or a Jim Ross, who would have been closer to The Rock than most would say now looking back. Especially with them being out of the WWE now and both been fairly honest and objective. Because I think of you were to ask Dwayne himself, he would give the generic " I have always loved it at the WWE and they've always been great" type of line.
I'm just gonna say, if you offer a 25 yr old kid millions of dollars.. I'm pretty sure they say yes. After all, he left WWE for Hollywood because they pay better
I always liked WCW more it had better wrestlers who could do promos. The set looked incredible & had one of the best rivalries in history with Sting (one of the best wrestlers EVER) against the NWO, which was wild every time they clashed. If Sting beat the NWO down & beat Hogan clean at Starcade 97, it would've been over for the WWF.
The problem is that The Rock is so heavily tied to the WWF. - So many of his family were talent for it. - His Grandfather, High Chief Peter Maivia, his father Rocky Johnson, Uncle’s the Wild Samoans, Yokozuna. - (even a teenage Roman Reigns biding his time to sign up in a decades time). Plus he’d been friends with the McMahons since being a little kid. Moreover, he knew that eventually Vince would give him the Super-Push to World Champion status. The Rock simply had too many tentacles in the WWF to jump to WCW. - For ANY amount of money !! Plus, can you imagine the negative pressure he’d receive from family and the WWF Universe if he even BROACHED the subject ? - Like a hundred people would be imploring him to reconsider. - He’d crack under the pressure of just THINKING about it.
First off, many of the same relatives also wrestled for WCW too. And we know enough money can get him to leave WWE, because that's why he left for Hollywood.
Yeah that could have worked but that is a lot of hindsight and i think there is a more likely option. What if wcw got back steve austin? So in this idea he goes to ecw like normal and either wcw rehires him or after being the ringmaster in wwf he is so frustrated he goes back to wcw where they play up the ecw character that despises biscoff and they do their own austin vs owner story. The one big issue with this idea is there is too many things similar to Austin in wcw. Ddp has the diamond cutter which is a simiar looking move that is used similarly with a quick drop to take people out fast. And goldberg looks too similar to Austin and even with different tights i think it would be a problem. Now i am no way saying this would work better than them getting the rock, i just think it has a higher chance of happening without hindsight and would be a interesting thought experiment.
One thing about the Hogan vs Rock in WCW scenario. While we did get Rock vs Hogan in WWE in which Hogan put the Rock over at WM 18, but that was in WWE where Hogan likely had no creative control in his contract. Also in their WM 18 match there was no title on the line. In WCW he had creative control in which if the idea of Hogan laying down for the Rock would have had him saying "That don't work for me brother". Unless it was something like Hogan was turning face in the match against the heel Rock who might have hit Hogan with a chair or something while the Ref wasn't looking to get the pin. Or you renegotiate Hogan's contract so that he doesn't have creative control. Also remember that WCW had a glass celling. Hence the reason why guys like Jerico, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, etc jumped ship. Maybe if the Rock say jumps ship in 99-2000 after he became a major main event player in WWE, it might have worked.
The Hogan blaming is so overblown by fans. He jobbed to Billy Kidman for crying out loud. Also this is a what if scenario where I am mentioning what I think is how WCW could have won, but for some reason people's imaginations and ability to accept hypotheticals stops at Hogan
Better question is what if someone who truly understood wrestling had bought WCW And the AWA then turned them into world promotions how would wwe compete.
I wonder without Bischoff and Hogan running roughshod if they could have kept the radicals. Certainly Jericho and Eddie if they weren't pigeonholed as cruiserweights could have turned the tide, throw in Benoit Booker T and maybe even Sean O'Hare and you've got potential breakout stars who always played jobbber to the egos of the Hogans Nashes and Halls
The only way WCW would've won would be for Ted Turner not to have the AIL/Time Warner merger and for someone similer to Vince McMahon to run the wrestling company.
Only disagreement I have with you Dave, in regards to celebrities. Mongo was brought on with the initial episode of Nitro, back in 1995, as a full time commentator. It’s sounds like you’re doing a chunk of your changes from mid 96 on, so he may be able to slip through since he was pretty much a full timer by then rather than a celebrity. I’m on board with the rest of the hypothetical changes though, I could see it working out well.
not even about them winning but they could of kept up if they would of been able to go full attitude just like WWF but according to Nash standards and practices cut them off at the knees
Well if wcw had better management rather than Eric Bischoff and didn't hire Vince Russo it might have been likely that the rock would of jumped to wcw and would continue the existence of wcw
I was going along with it until he mentioned The Rock defecting to WCW. Sting beating hogan the right way at starrcade happens. Bret beating sting happens. Hogan beating Bret happens. Goldberg beating hogan on a ppv and not being a squash match happens. Goldberg remains Babyface forever in WCW. Goldberg and team WCW take out NWO Hollywood and Wolfpack at WW3 war games. Instead of Kevin Nash.
Not even half way, and you've eliminated one of WCWs most financially successful PPVs by eliminating celebrities and the extended exposure. Your replacement in no way offsets this in terms of what actually worked for them. I'm not a fan of the matches either, but you're completely missing the point of it if that's what you're looking at
If Michael's and Taker went to wcw, wwe would have been done. There was a rumor that Taker's biker gimmick was due to him going to wcw as Mean Mark, however if Shawn went to wcw he would have died of an od
Prove it! Worst financial time period in WWF history was during his title reigns. Look at his house show numbers and his PPV buyrates. When was he ever the top merch seller?
WWE suckups need to quit covering how Barry Diller was a very prominent reason for the turnaround. Bonnie Hammer too. The turnaround in fact coincided with Diller's purchase of the USA Network. Diller also owned the Home Shopping Network, which was clearly a very prominent reason why the WWF could have some good enough access to HSN. Diller even used HSN to acquire the USA Network.
McMahon was to smart, he would have eventually won given any situation. People say Stone cold won the war but it was actually McMahon selling his ass off ,looking the fool week in and week out that brought back the interest in the wwe.
Turner wanted WCW gone even when it was profiting roughly $30M in 1998. Even at that time they wouldn’t provide the money to cover the cost of Thunder while mandating the new show be added. And during that year despite being the strongest financially they’d ever been they were still having their budget cut and there was a hiring freeze for employees they’d need for things like production. So the hypo that they’d ever have acquired the WWF at anything outside of a bargain cost like the WWF did for WCW I don’t see much of any scenario they have any desire to buy WWF. If the WWF was in bad enough shape to be sold there wouldn’t be much value in rhe brand itself, similar to the lack of value to the WCW brand after the WWF acquisition when they couldn’t obtain an amenable television deal to continue airing a WCW branded show. Bischoff has also pointed out how unwilling Turner was to allow for WCW to be aired on a different network when they tanked a deal he’d worked out for WCW to provide some special shows to NBC that would’ve generated additional revenue from NBC. So the only way they’d get value from the WWF as a brand would’ve been taking away Thunder to air a WWF show or adding more wrestling to the network which wasn’t going to happen. This especially never happens considering the cost slashing and accounting being done to max the EBITDA for every segment of turner for the AOL deal. Even if the network liked wrestling the deal would’ve tanked any acquisition. The value of the content library could have happened if they saw any value to having it like Vince die with theirs but I doubt it. They wanted WCW gone so badly that they killed a deal that would’ve paid them multiples over what the WWF did because they refused to keep airing the show in their network. They were happy to take +/- $60M less on a sale, pay our millions on guaranteed deals that WWF didn’t have to assume, and lose the revenue that keeping the show would’ve brought their network. It’s a fun hypo but hard to even entertain considering just how much the network didn’t want WCW around even when it was doing its best.
To me, the most likely reason WCW wins the war is if Vince decides in 1996/1997 not to push the envelope but stubbornly decides to double down on being the family friendly almost kiddie wrestling show that WWF was doing for 1995.
Even then I think WCW was doomed, the WWF at least had the willingness to push young talent. WCW failed to learn this lesson time and time again. Hogan, Nash and Hall etc were just unwilling to let anyone else get over.
@@corneliussmiff2773 All of that is true, however, you have to keep the timeline in mind. If the WWF keeps going down by doubling down on kiddie wrestling they might have been out of business by the end of 1998. WCW was always going to be a victim of the Time Warner merger in 2001. So WCW wins the war but their victory doesn't guarantee their long term existence.
One of the biggest downfalls for the company was not having a post-NWO plan, they just kept bringing it back and bringing it back more watered down than the last time and everybody was just sick of it.
I would say the biggest thing that hurt WCW was not evolving. 1998 was profitable and still interesting.
1999 was when they started to lose money and interest. And look at the direction of the company. It went from new star Goldberg as champion and new star DDP rising to the top back to dinosaur Hogan as the champ.
Then a major blunder of making Hogan Hulk again.
Yes, DDP became champion in 1999, but other than him ot was mostly old stars put to the top.
If anything, I think the new nWo at the end of the year was actually interesting, and things may have bode better for WCW if Bret wasn't injured and ut continued.
Nevertheless, I think your point is similar to mime whereas they just didn't know how to move on. Even specifically with the nWo it would have been better if it ended with a war instead of the group fading into jobbers.
I really think the biggest issue was that WCW failed to build up a strong internal force to resist the invasion right off the bat. When Hall and Nash came out with baseball bats and were able to keep 6 WCW guys and 10+ police officers at bay, it made WCW look extremely weak. During the one-sided feud, very few WCW guys benefitted from their interactions with the nWo. I know Goldberg and DDP are probably the best examples for any semblance of long-term plans, but it was too little too late for both of them. When Goldberg got his title, WWF re-established itself above the ratings leaderboard, and when DDP got his first one, WWF was in the middle of their 120 week win streak that would last until WCW closed its doors.
The Wolfpac was the first true babyface incarnation to challenge the nWo on equal footing, and fans were already starting to lose interest in the nWo by late 1997. It also doesn't help that Sting was supposed to be the face of WCW, but he not only joins the nWo, but Nash is the leader. Sting should have been the leader of any face faction he was put in, full stop.
@@aspectra
That's some good points.
However nWo needed to look like a nearly unstoppable threat at the beginning.
As the original comment said,
they didn't have a post nWo plan.
It was just nWo doing run ins, and neither WCW or nWo winning their kayfabe war.
A lot of people dislike Sting in nWo.
Teaming with villains...
Nash being the reason Hogan has the title back via the matches with Savage.
Anyone who's watched The Crowe would find it laughable for thr character to join the gang that killed him in a sequel.
DDP should have been champion in 1998. By 1999 it was too late with the company on a desperate downward spiral.
I never thought about WCW poaching The Rock as the winning strategy, but it makes sense.
No way he would have gone. He’s loyal to Vince McMahon.
I don't know where people get this idea that the Rock is a WWE lifer when he left for Hollywood after a 6 year career cause the pay was better. So you're telling me that if they offered a 25 yr old kid two million a year he's turning it down?
It's likely because of Eric Bischoff that Eric and hogan both have been connected to McMahon secretly to sabotage wcw might even have allowed Kevin Nash as a booker
@@DaveKnowsWrestling I hear you, but I guarantee he would've talked to guys like Bret and Hall/Nash about the pros and cons of WCW before signing. The pay and schedule would've been great, but the lack of structure and backstage politics might've soured him on jumping.
@@DaveKnowsWrestling and you are telling us WCW would've made rock into a star like WWF did??
If WCW bought WWF, only for them to get canned as a result of the AOL Warner Bros merger. Wrestling as we know it would be dead, especially with the rise of UFC. Vince McMahon deserves his credit
Nah. Ted Turner would have put Vince McMahon in charge of the new product and it wouldn't have gotten canned.
@@ojmcclanahan689 possible, Ted is a business man first
Ted Turner was completely sidelined by the AOL deal. WCW had no major backers left higher up the food chain.
@@jasonking3182 Yeah, it was gonna get sold regardless. Bischoff had found a buyer in Las Vegas, but it didn't work out in time.
Actually there still would be wrestling in the form of TNA
Crazy how Bischoff fired Austin yet he was the main reason why WCW lost in the ratings during the Monday Night Wars! Lol😂
Thank Paul Heyman for Austin, he allowed him to vent in ECW after being fired from WCW. His Hogan promo's were notorious before 3;16 became infamous !!
@@straingedays you're not wrong but at the same time what Paul Heyman did by letting Austin vent out his frustrations had nothing to do with the success he had in the WWF. U gotta remember Austin came in as the ring master n had Ted Dibiase be his mouth piece.
I think it's even crazier that Austin, HHH, Foley, Taker, and Kane all came from WCW. Hogan, Hall, Nash, Macho all came from big runs in WWF. Yes, I know Hall and Nash were previously in WCW, but they got their recognition in WWF.
@@king_eternal WWE was always better at creating star wrestlers than WCW, besides DDP and Goldberg most of WCW’s late 90’s stars were stars already creating in WWF and ECW
@@straingedays I only saw clips of Austin's hulk Hogan promos decades after he did them.
If my memory is right, Steve wasn't in the original ecw very long.
Stop paying millions of dollars to contracted wrestlers who aren't being used on TV would have helped WCW from vomiting money until they went out of business.
sheiky baby!
You're totally right but even with that considered, it was really more of a PR move by AOL as they didn't want to be associated with a wrestling brand. It's a super interesting story.
most wrestlers were getting over paid. they didn't have to actually wrestle that much it was mostly story and to very bad writing at that too. Most wrestlers were either super outta shape , on steroids or on drugs.
I heard the wcw had such a big roster that they paid them to stay home rather than use them as enhanced talent on house shows. They had so much talent it was sad and no idea how to develop and promote them.
An example of this was Lanny poffo, allegedly he was hired by wcw and paid crazy money to sit at home and not be on tv.
If Lanny poffo was on WCW tv, for even one match on tv, I never saw it
I agree with you wcw needed storylines, money and a superstar not a wrestler. Goldberg was a superstar but a one dimensional one.
The Rock was a true TV star. The story with nwo was perfect. It's hard to think of anyone other than the rock who could go up against stone cold.
Very interesting Dave . If Rocky could have became the same Rock in WCW as he did in the WWF , then yeah absolutely it would have been a game changer . A Brett vs Rock match would be fire as well ! Especially if Goldberg was on the side like you said . That could have prevented the situation with him and Brett perhaps .
Regardless , I love thinking about alternate timelines in the wrestling universe and how certain events could change the landscape drastically .
Having watched Reliving the War you can tell that they had a lot of talented people they wasted so much potential on.
Also, didnt David Arquette think that what happened with him was a horrible idea too?
Yeah even Arquette said fans would hate it.
He still did it didn't he?
Russo did that , he was horrible for the company.@@DaveKnowsWrestling
David also did what the fan in us would've done. He didn't say no to becoming world champion.
I see we have a Jam Up guy in the comments section.
If wCw spends so much time on productivity and less on spending but how about if Jim Crockett promotions was still around WCW would still be a success.
Um what?
Crockett was over $2M in the hole in 1988. That’s why Turner bought them.
A better result would be if no one won the war and we still had competition. And yes I know TNA and AEW were created.
Truthfully I think TNA never gets formed if there's no WCW, as Jeff Jarrett's one of the founders, He'd just work with WCW.
@@BoogalooBartholomewjeff loves putting himself over
You are totally right about cutting half of the roster and never ever having The NWO get bigger then 4 or 5 members would done a lot for there product. 1 big thing I would havedone is cut the number of hours the product was seen on TV in half with limited screen time for the biggiest stars, like WWF did in the 80s with Hogan. You could give more screen time and better storylines for some of the up and coming younger talent like Jercho, benoit and the likes. This would build WCWs future instead of just having older aging former WWF stars past ther prime that diehard fans where growing tired of seeing all the time. Finally keep most of big/best matches off TV, which gives a reason to go to a house show or buy the pay-pre-view. over I feel like less tv time and more quility is what WCW needed most...
I don't know... 1995 Flex Kavana was essentially The Rock version 1.0. So, a part of me thinks that wwe knew what they were doing with Dwayne Johnson, knew he had the mic skills in developmental, said "let's try him as a baby face. If he doesn't get over, we keep pushing. He'll get the ring experience and if they hate him as a face, that makes for an even better heel. Win-win!" But that ignores everything they did with so many other failed pushes.
The world may never know lol but still I will always wonder what if WCW won ❤🍻
Great video Dave!🤘😎🤘 The Rock as the leader of the New World Order instead of the Nation of Domination. That sounds like it actually might exist in another universe especially if WCW had by pure chance signed a young Rock by 97 which makes me think of the butterfly effect. Maybe the main event of Starrcade 1999 could have been The Rock defending the WCW World Title against a far better trained Goldberg
That would be the main event I would book. And even though we only got it once, I actually like the match they had together
Eric Bischoff once said he's glad WWE won the war. As, he wouldn't have an absolute clue what to do afterwards.
One thing you mentioned I would like to play devils advocate on is the use of celebrities. I believe that it isnt the right call to completely abandon the use of celebs, but to use the PROPERLY. I see the benefit of the publicity, and we see that it has benefited WWF/E many times in its history with Lauper, Tyson, mr. T, etc. The way WWE used these celebs gave them large bumps in viewership and some of their greatest moments. But WCW failed with basically every celeb they used.
Great video!
As I've covered on this channel multiple times, the hard evidence that celebrities benefit major promotions in a big way overall isn't really there.
The Jay Leno thing where Hogan took over his actual show was crazy! Not on Nitro or a PPV, but on The Tonight Show!
Great video Dave I definitely agree with getting rid of the basketball players and celebrities plus any silly deals with musicians (kiss) . I'd still like to see the whole list of who'd you keep/cut from WCW
It was over once Ted Turner merged the company and became hands off. WCW could have been the best wrestling product that was ever seen and had the best business management ever… AOL Time Warner wanted wrestling off their airwaves come hell or high water and without Turner fighting for it anymore they had their chance to get rid of it and did. They didn’t even want to sell it they wanted it to die.
I think what would've hurt wwf if Bret Hart decided to go to WCW in 1996 instead of 1997. Bischoff did make bret an offer of 2.8 million for 3 years, thats why vince gave bret a 20 yr deal ( from Cultaholic Screwed) But if Bret decided to go with WCW, he probably wouldve joined around war games 1996, instead of the Giant joining, Bret Hart would be the 4th man, u got 4 wwf main eventers on one team, meanwhile on wwf, theres no classic matches with Stone cold which solidifies Austin as a main eventer, no formation of the Hart Foundation, and no Montreal Screwjob, even though it was controversial, it caused more people to see what would happen next, owen and davey might have jumped to wcw as well, the only ones left as main eventers on wwf is michaels and undertaker. If Bret joined WCW in 96, i think it wouldve been the downfall of wwf
Anyone with eyes knew Rock was gonna be big. Me and my pap couldnt wait for him to turn during the "die rocky die" days 😅
Another great video Dave!
I like your proposals…interesting stuff.
The way I see it, WCW (if they wasn’t such a mess at the time too) really had a shot at stopping a “war” before it even started, somewhere around 94/95, when the WWF was really at a down point. In fact, I can say that for the early to mid 90s in general, especially after the Ultimate Warrior didn’t pan out the way Vince thought he would and the steroid scandal (and don’t forget Wrestlemania 7…ugh!!!).
solid idea, I still think that the main issue is AOL/Timewarner issue is that they didn't want it on TV. No TV, no show. Hence why Easy E's purchase fell through, amongst other reason
Interesting. It would’ve taken a lot more discipline and patience than WCW had, and being able to do it before the shift in momentum and fan appeal in 1998 would’ve been the best strategy
The best strategy for saving WCW would have been more Judy Bagwell on a pole matches.
I think if they did the fast count right they still could have that and had Bret make his debut then to send that message of "never again." Then you can have Bret waring with the NWO, and Sting helps even the odds while also teasing that Bret does want the title and then set up a face vs face match between him and Sting.
Goldberg should have been treated more like Andre the Giant back in the day. Andre was an attraction. He never had to be world champion. Goldberg should have been screwed over in some way for the belt, then could seek revenge by destroying whoever cost him the win. Hogan needed the belt to be interesting, Goldberg did not.
You really pulled a Russo Swerve for Part III.
Well played, bro.
Everytime I see photos of Hogan during that time, I think to myself how that washed-up old hack strung that show along for as long as he did.
"David Arquette sucks! Deal with it."
☝️ that right there got my like lol
"That's not gonna work for me brother!" Just kidding. I like it a lot.
GREAT STUFF DAVE LIKE ALWAYS
Damn that’s really cool Dave! I was on the fence about Rock until you put him with nWo and then it all made sense.
Great video Dave! Love how matter of fact you are 😆
Great video. Very well put together.
Thank you kindly!
I know competition is good but this scenario is a mindblower! Would AEW have formed years later to give WCW a run for their money in this alternative universe or would have it been sooner by 2 to 5 years after destroying WWF? If Tony Khan was a better booker and had a creative team with guys like Jim Cornette and Dutch Mantell giving advice and wisdom, maybe. We shall never know
Another scenario would be if Austin stays in WCW and remaina as a midcarder or even becomes a main eventer
AJ Styles,CM Punk,Bryan Danielson and Samoa Joe would be breakthrough stars in WCW in early 2000's if WCW would of been still around
There's two words why the WCW never had a chance on winning the war.
Stone.
Cold.
This is a fun video! My only contention is that it’s made in perfect hindsight. Like saving Goldberg for 2000 is brilliant. But it’s also with foreknowledge of Austin not being there in 2000 that that decision is made. Would love to see a follow up vid that runs through the strategies as if there’s no knowledge of future events.
If Hogan, Hall, & Nash don't bury the Talents.
Honestly I think the way to win the War for Wcw, is to have Sting win the title, have Brett Debut and start a war against the Nwo, maybe have Bulldog and Anvil join him, along with the top Wcw stars like Sting, Luger, Ddp, and maybe some younger stars like Booker T and Benoit. Have Goldberg just train and debut when hes ready and meanwhile have the new team Wcw fight against the Nwo, and even a big Wargames match with just the top guys from both sides, and you can book Starrcade 98 based on if you want Hart vs Sting, or a Nwo member like Hogan, Nash, or Hall involved
I agree 80 percent with you. Disco Inferno was a great low mid card wrestler. If they hire back Marc merro aka Johnny B Badd, those 2 as a tag team will be great competition for wwe too cool. Badd Inferno lol.
COULD’VE, SHOULD’VE, WOULD’VE…TED LEFT HIS “MARK” IN THE WORLD OF WRASSLIN LOL. LUCKILY HE LEFT AS HE CAME IN…. A BILLIONAIRE 💰
One WCW thing I would not change would be the rise of Goldberg. From the start of his run, he quickly became their biggest star and Austin did seem a lot like a Goldberg copycat in many regards. Goldberg, was lightning in a bottle and I don't think his run would have the same impact if you handle it any other way up to the point of ending the streak. That was one of WCW's biggest mistakes.
They had a story building up that could have set up any of the following to end the streak: Sting, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Brett Hart (assuming he doesn't get hit with multiple concussions in this timeline as WCW medical are more careful about that here). You see, after the infamous match with Steven "William" Regal, they set him up with a series with Jerry Flynn where they had Flynn make the matches more competitive then your typical early Goldberg squash by having Flynn use amateur techniques to slow Goldberg up with holds. They even started talking about how FLynn's style seemed to be giving Goldberg more problems then any other style. That seemed like they were setting up the angle for either an established main event submission finisher to end the streak, or use it to put a submission mid carder over. By specifically choosing a submission wrestler to get over when it's time to end the streak also gives a payoff to that early angle, and you can still get that epic Goldberg vs DDP PPV match (also better handle the scheduling with that so you don't get a huge loss from the main event going off the air), and the huge pop of Goldberg beating Hogan in front of his former NFL hometown crowd - that's such a memorable and ratings boost moment that you need it to maintain the ratings dominence while setting the next big thing up for toppling WWF.
Picking Benoit or Jercho to do the honours would send whichever of them got the push to the moon, being the one to finally end the streak at around the same point it did end at officially, maybe still having the Wolfpack angle and Goldberg vs Nash match, but Goldberg wins and starts his feud with the submission guy who's chosen to defeat him. Maybe even have him feud with a couple of them to give rise to speculation as to which one it will be. This gives a payoff to that early angle I mentioned above of Goldberg has some trouble with submission wrestlers. WCW has already established the no sell as the cornerstone of Goldberg's character, as him being immune to pain, but that the one chink in his armor is wrapping him up in a hold he can't break eventually KO'ing him or wearing him down into a forced submission. I might go with the KO option to get the other guy over without burying the meal ticket.
This solves another key factor in the Monday Night war shifting into WWFs favoour, the exodus of mid card WCW talent who were getting frustrated over the glass ceiling and all the WWF and NWA old boys hogging the spotlight. In this reality, WCW does not lose the rising stars like Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guererro, and others who left in the late 90s and early 2000s before WCW finally tanked for good.
These guys all went on to become huge stars of the Ruthless Aggression and early PG eras, and in the case of Jericho, also a huge star of AEW to this day. having these mid carders getting over and advancing to the main event scene for WCW rather then WWF/E gives another edge to WCW. Giving them the chance to run with the belt a bit while WCW was still strong and they were still not yet frustrated past the point of no return would be huge for WCW. And yes, bringing in someone of the caliber of The Rock and building him up as effectively as WWF did could tip the scales even more. Have Goldberg take his title in Atlanta, with the Rock working as a Hogan Understudy, have Rock use that loss of the belt as leverage to make his NWO takeover move, which also gives Hogan the perfect excuse to not continue feuding or rematching Goldberg over the title, he's being kept busy by Rock.
As we get into 99-2000 era, The Rock and Goldberg can start their dream feud. The Barama Bull vs the immovable object. By this point, you can also let the worn out NWO fade away and make room for the next big heel stable to come up, whatever that may be.
how about wcw does not fire austin over the phone brings him back when he is healthy and give him the push he deserved!
the problem with the Goldberg Streak is they didn't have an end... I think he needed a kryptonitehave his self inflicted arm injury become his achilles heel
Liked and subscribed. I love the idea of The Rock defecting and taking over the NWO
"He looks like a star and his old man was great... i wonder if he has any chops?" - my grandpap lol and boy did he ever have some chops
WCW could have kept Steve Austin in 95 and lets not forget how over DDP was in 98 where he was considered their people's champion. I would have had Steve Austin vs DDP at Halloween Havoc and make sure the PPV feed doesn't get cut off. DDP wins the title before facing Bret later on at Superbrawl.
Either way, I do think they would have at least been kept around if WWF didn't have both Rock or Steve Austin and if Ted kept a limited budget on it.
Yes. It would have been easier keeping Austin than getting The Rock. Most of Austin’s appeal was Mr. MacMahon feud. That was a big weapon.
@@johndavis48076 that feud really needed both guys. I can't imagine Triple H taking Austin's place and I can't imagine Bischoff taking Vince's place in WCW unless he didn't join NWO and they had Steve Austin join instead.
I think getting fired from WCW and his time in ECW was vital to the Stone Cold experience. Without that, I don't think we get the Rattlesnake
@@DaveKnowsWrestling maybe not but he definitely wouldn't go to WWF which would have kept them at the same state they were in 97.
Austin had two great feuds , one before McMahon. The inavison the highest grossing non Wrestmania PPV , It went down hill , because of Triple H ,and Benoit got injured and Steph becoming ECW leader.
You are onto something with delaying Goldberg. That would 1st make hardcore fans happy some rookie doesn't get to the top undeservingly. But there was a WCW,star who was more popular in 1998 who should have been champion. And he could have had the spotlight in 1998.
DDP 🙌
Eh...I want to agree, but when Diamond Dallas Page was pushed in the main event, PPV business slumped (I don't count the match with the basketball players, that was Hogan and Rodman, albeit a short term solution). For example, Halloween Havoc '98 drew well below expectations. Spring Stampede '99 was the beginning of the end for WCW. It drew *hugely* below expectations, and that was the one in which DDP won the title. Then again, who knows? DDP going over cleanly at the expense of Hogan at Starrcade '98, for instance, might have changed the public's perception of DDP, might have made him a main event draw.
@markv1274 ,
That's not really the fault of DDP though.
At that point WWF was hard into the Attitude Era, which fans took to. Plus the decline of plot development in WCW. wrestlercan't hold up a company or be blamed for that.
As far as those PPVS, while Starcade 97 was the highest draw of all time (which to this day WWF & WWE have not matched it), Bash At The Beach 98 was the 2nd highest draw. So what you're saying isn't accurate.
What was a mistake (possibly) was putting Jay Leno in a,tag main event. Maybe that was too far to be taken seriously. Not that I think the plot was bad.
WCW was still a thriving company in 1998. It wasn't until 1999 the company lost money.
I'm not surprised that String Stampede didn't fair well. I can't speak for all fans, but my expectation was for Sting to win. Nothing wrong with that, but it was just another older guy getting the belt.
Maybe some expected Hogan to get it back, and completely turn face again. LAME!
As a DDP fan, I was blindsided by the result. I didn't expect the win. I didn't watch the PPV live. I did buy the replay on Wednesday, but I'm a DDP fan, so I wanted to tape it.
It wasn't so much the public perception of DDP that needes to change. It was (as I've said a million times since WCW folded) WCW'S perception of "where the WWF has beens go to die' needed to change.
DDP's own opinion is that had he been pushed to championship level in 98 he would have been more on the level of Stone Cold.
If Time Warner had sold a majority stake WCW off in 97/98 like they had offers for well at the same time keeping enough investment that they kept them on the air then they could have survived. WCW major problem was there was no one person who the buck stopped with.
Don't give the dudes responsible for the curtain call creative control...
Wrestling wouldn’t be mainstream probably would’ve ended
If WCW had won the war and put the WWF out of business, Ted Turner would have most likely put Vince McMahon in charge of the new product, so I don't think things would be much different.
For wcw to have won the war or at least not go out of business they wouldve had to do multiple things.
1. Not make the mistake of throwing money at wrestlers who aren't working full time like wwf/e wrestlers.
2. Have more plans in place once the nwo storyline ran its course instead of doing the same thing over and over.
3. Build young wrestlers up and put them in rivalries with the big stars of wcw and have them go over, basic logical strategy.
4. No creative control in anyone's contract.
5. They had a golden opportunity with bret hart and blew it instantly, they should've used the montreal incident to their advantage, something simple like bret coming onto nitro the very next night and cutting a promo against the wwf and Vince McMahon, build some sort of storyline out of it, then have him compete in the main event scene straight away.
The WWF were vulnerable in 2000? With the title chase between Rock and HHH? The hottest year the company had
While they wound up succeeding, they were vulnerable without their top star. And when I proposed to take away their other top talent, they would have been in a much weaker state
@@DaveKnowsWrestling but yeah if the WWF were without both Austin and Rock then yes theyd be exposed
Well said Dave. That makes sense.
Great Video!
The difference between Vince Jr and WCW is Vince knew how develop, promote and market a star. I don't think wcw knew how to do that with the Rock because Austin they were doing house shows 7 days a week as Austin and Rock was the main event. WCW had no idea how to do that or they would have developed all their talent into a winning promotion.
WCW winning the Monday Night War is interesting though it definitely leaves alot of What If scenarios had they had the right people in charge that understood wrestling.
Who exactly would be the right people
In my opinion The Rock would have never got over in WCW like he did in WWF, so hiring a Rock before he was a big star would have been bad for WCW and bad for The Rock. Him working with HHH and Stone Cold is what allowed The Rock to become a huge star.
I understand the thought process, but I can't figure how anyone undervalues his charisma or sense of humor. Like it was something he could only get through specific people makes no sense to me
Wcw + wwf + ecw = should have merged into one wrestling company. And call it wcwfe.💯🤝
You go through this whole convoluted scenario in order to give WCW the answer to Austin with someone who was never near WCW... while completely ignoring that WCW already had the answer to Steve Austin... it was... wait for it... Steve Austin.
Steve Austin never going there at all would be an easier way to take away WWFs biggest asset. However I thought it was implicit that since I was talking about the Monday Night Wars that I was only including the period during the wars and not anything before
David winning the WCW champion was partly why the business was dying
Granted it is in hindsight and all, but The Rock leaving for WCW in 96 is a stretch. I wonder what someone, like maybe a Jim Cornette or a Jim Ross, who would have been closer to The Rock than most would say now looking back. Especially with them being out of the WWE now and both been fairly honest and objective. Because I think of you were to ask Dwayne himself, he would give the generic " I have always loved it at the WWE and they've always been great" type of line.
I'm just gonna say, if you offer a 25 yr old kid millions of dollars.. I'm pretty sure they say yes. After all, he left WWE for Hollywood because they pay better
There is no way WCW could have been able to compete as they were never allowed to push the envelope like WWF could...
How bought if WCW never fired Stone Cold Steve Austin what would of happened
I always liked WCW more it had better wrestlers who could do promos.
The set looked incredible & had one of the best rivalries in history with Sting (one of the best wrestlers EVER) against the NWO, which was wild every time they clashed.
If Sting beat the NWO down & beat Hogan clean at Starcade 97, it would've been over for the WWF.
The problem is that The Rock is so heavily tied to the WWF. - So many of his family were talent for it. - His Grandfather, High Chief Peter Maivia, his father Rocky Johnson, Uncle’s the Wild Samoans, Yokozuna. - (even a teenage Roman Reigns biding his time to sign up in a decades time).
Plus he’d been friends with the McMahons since being a little kid.
Moreover, he knew that eventually Vince would give him the Super-Push to World Champion status.
The Rock simply had too many tentacles in the WWF to jump to WCW. - For ANY amount of money !!
Plus, can you imagine the negative pressure he’d receive from family and the WWF Universe if he even BROACHED the subject ? - Like a hundred people would be imploring him to reconsider. - He’d crack under the pressure of just THINKING about it.
First off, many of the same relatives also wrestled for WCW too. And we know enough money can get him to leave WWE, because that's why he left for Hollywood.
Facts
Pretty simple. You hire hardcore holly. He beats everybody. Then, he gets the belt.
Repeat.
Yeah that could have worked but that is a lot of hindsight and i think there is a more likely option. What if wcw got back steve austin? So in this idea he goes to ecw like normal and either wcw rehires him or after being the ringmaster in wwf he is so frustrated he goes back to wcw where they play up the ecw character that despises biscoff and they do their own austin vs owner story. The one big issue with this idea is there is too many things similar to Austin in wcw. Ddp has the diamond cutter which is a simiar looking move that is used similarly with a quick drop to take people out fast. And goldberg looks too similar to Austin and even with different tights i think it would be a problem. Now i am no way saying this would work better than them getting the rock, i just think it has a higher chance of happening without hindsight and would be a interesting thought experiment.
That works for me. Get the showdown between Austin and Hulk that we always should have gotten
Whenever I play past mods on TEW thats always the goal Defeat WWF
One thing about the Hogan vs Rock in WCW scenario. While we did get Rock vs Hogan in WWE in which Hogan put the Rock over at WM 18, but that was in WWE where Hogan likely had no creative control in his contract. Also in their WM 18 match there was no title on the line. In WCW he had creative control in which if the idea of Hogan laying down for the Rock would have had him saying "That don't work for me brother". Unless it was something like Hogan was turning face in the match against the heel Rock who might have hit Hogan with a chair or something while the Ref wasn't looking to get the pin. Or you renegotiate Hogan's contract so that he doesn't have creative control. Also remember that WCW had a glass celling. Hence the reason why guys like Jerico, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, etc jumped ship. Maybe if the Rock say jumps ship in 99-2000 after he became a major main event player in WWE, it might have worked.
The Hogan blaming is so overblown by fans. He jobbed to Billy Kidman for crying out loud. Also this is a what if scenario where I am mentioning what I think is how WCW could have won, but for some reason people's imaginations and ability to accept hypotheticals stops at Hogan
Make Hogan leave after losing to Sting in dec 97
Yea fire one of the only two guys who won a Monday during Austin's first two reigns and let him go back to the WWF... not a good plan
Better question is what if someone who truly understood wrestling had bought WCW And the AWA then turned them into world promotions how would wwe compete.
Sid said wwe was winning in house shows but that is a big way to develop your talent. WCW needed to do more house shows.
I wonder without Bischoff and Hogan running roughshod if they could have kept the radicals. Certainly Jericho and Eddie if they weren't pigeonholed as cruiserweights could have turned the tide, throw in Benoit Booker T and maybe even Sean O'Hare and you've got potential breakout stars who always played jobbber to the egos of the Hogans Nashes and Halls
Even if the WCW was able to lure The Rock away from WWE you know Vince Russo would of just screwed it by putting him on some kinda pole anyway 🤨
The only way WCW would've won would be for Ted Turner not to have the AIL/Time Warner merger and for someone similer to Vince McMahon to run the wrestling company.
Only disagreement I have with you Dave, in regards to celebrities. Mongo was brought on with the initial episode of Nitro, back in 1995, as a full time commentator. It’s sounds like you’re doing a chunk of your changes from mid 96 on, so he may be able to slip through since he was pretty much a full timer by then rather than a celebrity.
I’m on board with the rest of the hypothetical changes though, I could see it working out well.
it would have been easier to add shawn michaels with his buddies than to get the rock.
Yea well the goal is to win the war
Dave you should go work for Tony Kahn. AEW really needs a good writer
not even about them winning but they could of kept up if they would of been able to go full attitude just like WWF but according to Nash standards and practices cut them off at the knees
Well if wcw had better management rather than Eric Bischoff and didn't hire Vince Russo it might have been likely that the rock would of jumped to wcw and would continue the existence of wcw
I was going along with it until he mentioned The Rock defecting to WCW. Sting beating hogan the right way at starrcade happens. Bret beating sting happens. Hogan beating Bret happens. Goldberg beating hogan on a ppv and not being a squash match happens. Goldberg remains Babyface forever in WCW. Goldberg and team WCW take out NWO Hollywood and Wolfpack at WW3 war games. Instead of Kevin Nash.
Not even half way, and you've eliminated one of WCWs most financially successful PPVs by eliminating celebrities and the extended exposure. Your replacement in no way offsets this in terms of what actually worked for them. I'm not a fan of the matches either, but you're completely missing the point of it if that's what you're looking at
Again. As I already said. How'd they do with all those thing? Did they win?
I feel like if AOL didn’t buy tbs, we would still have WCW. AOL was riding the tech bubble and when it popped everything went.
So, what you are saying is that there was absolutely no way for WCW to win out over WWF.
Bret beats the streak and we all speak German today.
would the rock still have the same drive to develop his character if he was given that push from the jump. imo i don’t think so.
He won the WWF title in 1998. I have him being pushed... in 1998. There is no difference
If Michael's and Taker went to wcw, wwe would have been done. There was a rumor that Taker's biker gimmick was due to him going to wcw as Mean Mark, however if Shawn went to wcw he would have died of an od
Michaels can't draw a dime. He doesn't make a difference in this equation
@@DaveKnowsWrestling your wrong HBK can draw wake up
Prove it! Worst financial time period in WWF history was during his title reigns. Look at his house show numbers and his PPV buyrates. When was he ever the top merch seller?
I SAW RVD IN A INTERVIEW SAYING HE NOW REGRETS THE HBK IMPRESSION NOW
WWE suckups need to quit covering how Barry Diller was a very prominent reason for the turnaround. Bonnie Hammer too. The turnaround in fact coincided with Diller's purchase of the USA Network. Diller also owned the Home Shopping Network, which was clearly a very prominent reason why the WWF could have some good enough access to HSN. Diller even used HSN to acquire the USA Network.
McMahon was to smart, he would have eventually won given any situation. People say Stone cold won the war but it was actually McMahon selling his ass off ,looking the fool week in and week out that brought back the interest in the wwe.
If there is such a thing as Minnesota style, please do an episode on it.
Turner wanted WCW gone even when it was profiting roughly $30M in 1998. Even at that time they wouldn’t provide the money to cover the cost of Thunder while mandating the new show be added. And during that year despite being the strongest financially they’d ever been they were still having their budget cut and there was a hiring freeze for employees they’d need for things like production. So the hypo that they’d ever have acquired the WWF at anything outside of a bargain cost like the WWF did for WCW I don’t see much of any scenario they have any desire to buy WWF. If the WWF was in bad enough shape to be sold there wouldn’t be much value in rhe brand itself, similar to the lack of value to the WCW brand after the WWF acquisition when they couldn’t obtain an amenable television deal to continue airing a WCW branded show.
Bischoff has also pointed out how unwilling Turner was to allow for WCW to be aired on a different network when they tanked a deal he’d worked out for WCW to provide some special shows to NBC that would’ve generated additional revenue from NBC. So the only way they’d get value from the WWF as a brand would’ve been taking away Thunder to air a WWF show or adding more wrestling to the network which wasn’t going to happen. This especially never happens considering the cost slashing and accounting being done to max the EBITDA for every segment of turner for the AOL deal. Even if the network liked wrestling the deal would’ve tanked any acquisition. The value of the content library could have happened if they saw any value to having it like Vince die with theirs but I doubt it.
They wanted WCW gone so badly that they killed a deal that would’ve paid them multiples over what the WWF did because they refused to keep airing the show in their network. They were happy to take +/- $60M less on a sale, pay our millions on guaranteed deals that WWF didn’t have to assume, and lose the revenue that keeping the show would’ve brought their network. It’s a fun hypo but hard to even entertain considering just how much the network didn’t want WCW around even when it was doing its best.
Hey Dave, could you do a what if Shawn Michaels didn't retire in 1998?
Good luck with that. Dave won't give Shawn Michaels the time of day let a whole damn video
...WWF would have sucked more. That was easy