Link DOES have an idle for when it’s raining - if he’s crouched! A couple weeks ago, I had him crouched on a ledge while I waited for the weather to tick over so I could keep climbing. And while I was waiting, he lifted his hand and glanced upward, as if checking the rain.
You can often just brute force through climbing in the rain by jumping manually right before Link loses his grip and slides down. After jumping you will slide down, but it resets the time it takes for link to slide on his own, so you break even and can then continue climbing. Uses a lot of stamina.
@@ASpaceOstrich But that still uses a ton of stamina, and doesn't get you nearly as far. I hope they really improve this with the next game, I think it's a real big oversight to not be able to best the rain... at all, it could be a good upgrade for the climbing gear. Like you can defeat the literal incarnation of malice and hatred that was cursed to be cyclically revived forever, but the rain? That's right out.
@@MrMoon-hy6pn Its not an oversight though. Its there to mix things up. When raining you can either find another path, find a path that allows you to make it despite the increased stamina usage of the jump method, or wait it out. There's even an area of permanent rain which relies on the difficulty of climbing in it to create a specific challenge. Zora's domain for example is a combat gauntlet to reach the city which would be easily bypassed if not for the fact that the area is in permanent rainfall at first. Which leads the player to actually experience that combat guantlet and creates the illusion that the domain is under siege despite the game not actually having any systems that would allow for that. Its not an oversight, its a deliberate decision. Technically the jumping method might be considered an oversight, as they likely intended for climbing to be impossible in the rain, rather than just much more difficult.
@@ASpaceOstrich Well for me anyway I find it incredibly unfun to go half way up a cliff face see it start raining then either go do something else or wait it out. Deliberate or not it's bad game design to limit the player in such a way for the entire game. Like the weapon breakage system it makes sense early on, zoras domain was fun because you had to fight or sneak your way up, but at end game it's just tedious. Plus the climbing gear already has upgrades that make it easier so I don't think extra grip while climbing in the rain is a stretch, its your reward for exploring, finding items and engaging with the game.
I low-key NEEDED link to lie down in the grass when idle. Mario does it in Mario Odyssey. I spent so much time in BOTW just standing about enjoying the view. Link shoulda taken a nap.
I was just thinking of something like that. Like, it'd be neat if i put my Switch down while I go get a snack, and come back to see Link sitting cross-legged on the ground, picking at the grass.
I wish that there was more reality to link as a character, shown through his idles. Like, he should flop down on the grass when bored, when he's near a gate he should stiffen up and pretend to march in front of it (whole royal guard thing), near the castle or inside of it i think he should have a bit of free roam from his spot. If he's near a wall he should touch paintings and stuff.
I'm guessing Link waits over a minute to do his idle fidget because he literally only has one (per outfit), and it would be very repetitive to see it pop up every 10-15 seconds.
Yeah, I'd totally believe that they had one fidget made and it was feeling weird to playtesters that he kept doing that same action so often, and making new fidgets wasn't nearly high enough a priority to try to squeeze in more before content lock, so they just extended the wait or something.
The solution to that, would be for the animation to take ~15 seconds to play the *first* time during an idle. Then every animation after the first takes a minute to play.
Even considering the "stoic royal guard" angle, he probably should move his eyes a bit early on, scanning for threats, then some time later glancing back (realizing he is in an open field, not in front of a closed gate). And then, after the 1min mark, the stretching fidget he already has. For contextual animations, he could have an almost completely still pose if holding a spear in front of a gate, just as an easter egg. It would be dev time spent on something almost no one would see, but it would be fun and reinforce the royal guard background story.
Totally agreed, that's the sort of specific and intentional acting choice that would sell me on the "it's because he's a stoic guard" (as opposed to just acting kinda vacant 95% of the time)
i honestly really like that he stays still for such a long time just because it's such a long game and you're probably going to spend so much time standing around and i really like the lack of much happening so that it's diluted/spread out but i do agree that it would be nice for his eyes to move around sometimes as long as it doesn't happen too quickly and is relatively subtle, as well as a few other things as long as they don't happen too often/too quickly i'd really like if they added a bit more for botw2 lol
I would agree if not for the amnesia. Rather, I'd say your exact scenario would be the perfect idea because he's basically rediscovering the world all over and shouldn't be so comfortable.
@@OtakuUnitedStudio true like when he enters the lost woods for the first time in his state of memory losss. The animals heard heavily trotting across the ground in the thick mist. Would be nice if he acted a bit self aware of the noises yet can't hardly see like his head looking around trying to detect it. Even a stoic guard would try to at least look at the surrounding area when hearing strange noises
They should’ve used Rivali, Mipha, Urbosa, and Daruk as idle animations. That would be amazing. For the master cycle, they could’ve made him play around on the cycle like he was a teenager.(which he is)
That cutscene of the towers emerging is most certainly pre-rendered because of all the different locations that are quickly cut between - there's simply no feasible way to load everything needed fast enough in real-time.
Xenoblade 1 does something similar with it's second cutscene, with a fast sweeping shot of many locations in the game. All the areas WERE rendered in engine at some point, but for similar reasons, they couldn't all be loaded so quickly back to back, so prerendered video of in engine footage is used, like it is here.
They should’ve used Rivali, Mipha, Urbosa, and Daruk as idle animations. That would be amazing. For the master cycle, they could’ve made him play around on the cycle like he was a teenager.(which he is)
I actually think the infrequency of the idle fidget has less to do with Link's characterization, and more to do with where they wanted the eye focused. It feels to me like they wanted to avoid pulling the player's eye away from the scenery as much as possible. More a compromise on animation for the sake of scene. Even though I'd agree that I don't think minor fidgets would pull away focus enough, I could still see that sort of direction being given, especially when this was the BIG thing about BotW when it came out initially: it's open-world. Only because Link is pretty well characterized everywhere else, I can imagine it being a purposeful choice by the design team.
I have a guess as to why the fidle takes so long, based on my memory of playing the game for the first time. I remember that I would stop and look at the horizon a lot. Look at the mountains, hills and paths I could see in the distance to find my next way point. Specifically atop the Towers. So I think the reasoning behind the full minute before the fidle is to make the act of stopping and looking into the distance feel like part of the gameplay, rather than something you stop playing to do. I think that's the idea at least.
I agree with that. I’d often end up in a nice part of the map, set Link up, and take some pics. And it does just feel like he’s taking in his surroundings. Especially if you’re probably behind him.
Yeah i VERY strongly agree with this. I can imagine playtesters perhaps actually feeling MORE immersed when Link's relative stillness was ramped up rather than a constant barrage of idle animations when so much of the game can consist of just trying to take in/examine the enviornment.
An idle animation also serves as a signal to the player that the game knows you're just standing around. Imo, idle animations often have the attitude of "Damn, you're boring. Go do something."
17:27 - "I'm confused by their intent" I'm really glad you framed it this way. I've seen so many critiques of Japanese developed games, particularly Elden Ring and Breath of the Wild that deliberately break from western norms, where the person critiquing the game would just straight up say "this is wrong and bad and here's how I would fix it and make it better" and it's almost always just projection, they assume the intent was to be like every other open world game and the devs just got it wrong. Nintendo spent _years_ working on this game, they made decisions with specific intent and direction, and yes sometimes it's confusing cause we only have the finished product to work with, game development is not a straight line from start to finish and things can be tweaked all the way up to and past a game's release, but they _do_ have a specific reason for why some idle animations take over a minute to trigger, and a lack up understanding on our part is in no way a mistake on their part. Anyway, at a guess, the intent would be to put more focus on the open world and less on Link, save for moments where he's in mortal peril from the environment. They could have given him way more character, but as always it's a challenging balancing act on how much character *should* Link have in any given Zelda game, and for this specific game they went with less character and more player vessel. Link is very snappy and functional, the movement in this game is very natural feeling, which shows a _lot_ of polish went into the controls and game feel and that would have a cost to the animation, so stuff like picking up items would have been relegated to a very basic motion that can read as "picking up a thing" but won't interfere with movement at all. So their priorities are making the controls as responsive as possible, and animation as purely functional. At least, that's how I read it.
100% agree with everything you said. I'm really glad you mentioned the facts of Japanese game companies breaking from the norm, as a big fan of Elden Ring I've also seen a lot of people get it wrong. Thank you for your input.
"Link kicking the chest with a bare foot and then being hurt is super cute and shows some personality" alternative take: shows you just how much of a dumb boy Link can be.
GameSpot have done half a dozen videos on things you didn't know about Breath of the Wild, and somehow Dan has still managed to add yet more to that conversation with this WrongPlay addendum.
I think the reason he waits for so long before fidgeting is in case the player is looking at something ahead. If Link started looking around it getting distracted, it would server the bond between what you're doing and what Link is doing.
If the amount of wait time on that fidget is indeed intentional, then my only guess is they imagined if you're standing still, you're probably taking in the view and enjoying the titular _breath of the wild,_ and Link shouldn't distract from that. As if they wanted to invoke the feeling of staring at a painting. I do agree with your point though - it would've been really cool to have Link admire the scenery _alongside_ the player. I certainly would've preferred that! (Welp, I should've waited a mere 5 minutes before writing this one, clearly I wasn't the only one who thought of this!)
So I know that Link's walk changes when he wears monster masks (the Moblin, Lizalfos, Lynel masks), and I *think* that happens with other clothing sets. So, and I'm not certain on this, I think maybe different outfits have different idle fidgets? Like the Gerudo Outfit could change things. That could be something to test.
If I had to guess why Link's idle animation is like this - outside of it just being less of a focus due to the game's scope - it would be that the developers were aiming for his behavior to be more reactionary and/or passive in nature. He's been woken up from a 100 year slumber in a place he doesn't recognize, with very little context about what's happening around him. He's kind of detached from what's around him, so most of his idle expression is just him reacting to immediate stimuli. He reacts to temperatures, getting tired, something getting on his hand, etc. So what does he do when he's just standing there, clothed with weapons on his back? He does some stretches to avoid stiffening up - probably just muscle memory in that case. In a sense, he's all business in this game because he doesn't really know what else he should be. I certainly can't say it's a sensible explanation if it's even accurate... but I do think it makes some sense of what Breath of the Wild's dev team was aiming for. I absolutely agree, though, that a looking-around animation would have been a good touch. Maybe the tech that lets his head point towards certain things like villagers or enemies made that more complicated to implement, though I'm pretty sure that hasn't stopped them before. Breath of the Wild is a surprisingly strange game in places.
Absolutely strange. For instance, the lack of alternate sword swings when compared to every other 3D Zelda. Ever since I noticed he can't even thrust, it's like "why are we still here?...Just to suffer?"
1 minute, 7 seconds = 67 seconds = 67000 milliseconds The maximum value of an unsigned short is 65535. I wonder if someone thought a parameter took a signed short instead of an unsigned short or something. We don't actually see the exact frame that Dan stops moving Link, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's ~1.5 seconds of fudge in the timing of when the fidget was supposed to fire
I don't think that makes sense. If you convert it back from unsigned to signed, that would mean the _intended_ value for the delay was... -1. Even if you took a slightly lower value, you'd still get a negative number when signed, (an even bigger one at that), until you reach 32767 and below, at which point it makes no difference whether the short is signed or unsigned. Bitwise operations aside, I also find it odd that a parameter intended to hold a _time value_ would be limited to barely above a minute; that's not the kind of optimisation a developer would make without a _really_ good reason.
@@StickmanCorp it could be any smallish negative number and you'd get a similar result. -1 (maybe by accident and intended to be +1) could be "wait at least 1 second to idle", and would be hard for us to tell the difference between 1 and 3 without counting frames carefully
67 seconds at 30fps is just over two thousand frames (2010 to be exact). Maybe they originally targeted a ~30s wait before the fidget at 60fps, before letting the frames drop, but not revisiting the idle wait? Or do people only use time and not frames nowadays?
@@StickmanCorp After thinking about it a little more, a more likely explanation is that whatever variable they're using to store the loop interval is incorrectly set to Max Unsigned Short or 0. The Freezing and Overheating idle fidget looks like it loops every ~3 seconds, so that interval needs to be kept somewhere. If the intention for that variable was to trigger an idle fidget every few seconds, it seems reasonable if the variable was originally a longer int type, but got reworked into a short as part of an optimization pass and the default idle fidget got messed up in the process.
4:55: Dan: "How long do we have to wait until Link does anything?" Zelda: "That's what I've been wondering! Did he just _forget_ about Ganon?!?" 16:10: Dozing off, just like you'd expect a professional-to-the-point-of-lifelessness guard to do. 6:20: And it's _especially_ especially important when some people in the audience are _expecting_ a blank slate, because you _need_ the audience to recognize he _isn't._ 11:25: I'm so disappointed that Dan didn't finish with "...as a characterization of absence". 16:55: I'm pretty sure the grimace is just a hit react to the heat damage, not a fidget. 19:35: I mean, yes, being that kind of factory-reset neutral would make you an amnesiac, but that doesn't go both ways.
no, being an amnesiac does not actually rest you. Most amnesiacs still remember how to do things and can function, they just don't have the memories associated with the skills they have learned. so for example an amnesiac could drive a car because it is a learned skills, they just wouldn't remember having taken classes or tests. This does also mean if they come up on a sign that they didn't normally encounter they won't know what to do, but simple and common signs can still be followed, like knowing the red sign means stop or the green light means go. the difference is Declarative and non-declarative (procedural) memory systems. it'd probably be easier for you to google that instead of me dropping a massive wall of text.
@@NoESanity That's...exactly what I said? I said the reverse was true-that a factory reset would give you amnesia-and that that did _not_ mean the reverse was also true.
Feels so odd to have him at almost a soldier's rest for so long when other Links from, say, Wind Waker were almost always doing something to make the character more alive. Even if it was just his eyes Maybe they developers expected the players to always be on the move in the open world? And that wasn't a place to put extra resources? But yeah a 1:07 to move is notable
It might come down to only having a single idle per situation. They might've thought that playing the same animation too often felt more artificial than just keeping the neutral idle.
TBF, hero of the wilds is the only link so far to have been a trained solider. (well him and hyrule warriors who does not have a hero name and is also non-canon)
@@NoESanity An honorable mention for Skyward Sword's Link, who was about to graduate from a knight academy. I never played it so I'm not aware of whether he was a soldierly idle animation or not, though.
He should've had the "tappy feet" animation present in OOT, WW, and TP (if not more, those are just where I noticed it) if he's wearing shoes/or just boots. I'd be very happy if he had that, it's so cute, plus it'd tie him to the other Links in a small way which is fun, there's tons of other references in this game after all.
My absolute favorite pastime in this game is shield surfing on Hebra mountain. I completely lost my mind when I first noticed Link laugh when you do a spin on the shield. It was so adorable that I kept leaping around just to see what would trigger it! I feel like even though there isn't much in terms of quantity when it comes to Link's character tics in this game, it's the rarity of those moments that make them stand out so much more when you DO notice. 99% of the time, we are treating BOTW Link as a puppet to explore the world, until he suddenly ISN'T and you're smacked with the realization that he is a whole-ass person you're taking on an adventure with you.
Another interesting point about the idle animations in this game: there is no idle for cooking (if you leave the description of the dish on screen after cooking it), but there IS an idle if you get a critical cook (again, leaving the dish description on screen). Interesting that there is only an idle in the rare instance, especially since you likely aren't going to spend a lot of time with the dish description on screen
That actually fits, considering a bit of in-game lore. If you find Zelda's diary in the castle, you can read it to find out that Link can NOT resist a delicious meal. and considering the rest of what she writes about in that same part (something about how Link wants to just take everything in stride and just deal with it) it makes perfect sense that the most expressive and happy we ever see Link is when he's face-to-face with a perfect meal.
This isn't an intended animation but if you want to see a dumb upper body/lower body animation combo, try "whistle sprinting", it's a speedrunning trick where you sprint forwards and rapidly tap whistle and results in you running at slightly less than full pace but you also don't lose stamina. Anyway, the animation result is that his lower half is in a dead sprint and his upper half is straight back at attention and whistling. Very dumb and very unintended but just in case you wanted to know 😂
It really looks like they had a bit of a Programing bug that is chaining three different idles one after the other. The wrist stretch, neck stretch, and arm stretch really look like three different actions. Having such a long wait and running the one sequence really stand out as possibly being a bug
I highly doubt it, since he starts each action before returning to his idle pose. He starts moving his neck before his arms drop to his sides, for example.
Idle Animations are fun- because I grew up playing Ocarina of Time, I actually adopted some of Young Link's Idle Animations naturally, when I find myself standing idly for too long. From that game, Young Link taps his boots now and again, does a yawn + stretch looking at how big his wingspan is, and adjusts like his belt here and there ☺️ I do the boot tap/stretch all the time lmao
If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably because Wind Link was still a child (and the cartoony art style certainly had some influence there as well) whereas Wild Link used to be a royal guard, who’s implied to have some sort of war trauma even before The Calamity, and afterwards woke up without any memories of anything, and the land he finds himself in in absolute ruins
I think the "programming error" idea definitely has merit, but I wonder if it really could be intentional. A lot of things are deliberately stripped down - the music is just occasional notes, forex. Link is not a character with a ton of personality, either. Keeping things very quiet and still *could* be a design choice. It kinda fits.
I'll have to agree with him, most by Dark Souls 2 and Elden Rings intros. You have died, died more times then you can recall any of your past, lost your way and that's even before reaching the starting line. A nobody, even if you once had some title, or did you just take up the mantle of another dead, does it matter?
Why make an idle for Souls characters? you don't stand Idle too long in a Souls game, that's asking to get killed, it's like one of the most basic rules of the franchise aside from always running with your shield up
I always enjoy hearing you ramble about animation, Dan; you're an insightful guy, and I appreciate that you take the time to say "This is from my perspective" and not just saying "Oh, they should've done this because it's objectively a better choice". You acknowledge that you don't have all the answers, but don't sell your viewpoint short either.
So, about that first idle animation and why it took so long... BotW has the most absolutely beautiful vistas, and Link is the silent self-insert. Him gazing off into the distance as if mesmerized by the view cues us into doing the same, and prevents him from distracting us from enjoying the view. Again, you did it sub-consciously: when we were waiting over a minute, what did you do? You scanned the beautiful skyline knowing your viewers would enjoy that. Then, what idle animation did he do? A little limber up and stretch as if he's ready to get going, encouraging the player to play on. If he did the same idle animation every 20 seconds while I enjoyed the view, he would actually seem more like a robot.
Dan has such an amazing and entertaining way of explaining things. As an aspiring animator, I'm learning so much about animation, techniques and what goes behind the mind of animator. Thank you :)
I would love to see you expand on some modern examples of idle fidgets you really like, or stand out to you. Because I know you're right, that they're very common in modern third person games, and modern games technology really expands what characters can do, how much personality they can casually show, but I feel like I never hear anyone highlighting any in particular.
The more I see that idle, the weirder it feels. If we go by in game interactions, BotW Link is a goofball. When the old man asks what you're going to do with his torch, Link can respond "It's a secret." He plays along with Purah and her shenanigans when she asks him to give her a snap. He drools over food. He flexes with his shirt off. He does a little fist pump to show he's ready to go once he gets his stamina back. Link is just an overall silly guy. And then his idle is complete robot. Stock still perfect posture no expression for a full minute. It really feels like they sacrificed his main idle for the sake of player immersion or some other gameplay reason. And because that idle is the thing you see the most, it overshadows the other examples of Link's personality. Link comes off first and foremost as a well trained soldier, a cold and stoic warrior, despite the fact that he's supposed to be a bright eyed and curious lad without any of the heavy baggage of his past thanks to his memory loss.
I dunno; I kinda feel like taking extra long to start an idle animation makes sense in the context of BotW? At least insofar as I've heard the driving goal was to make Hyrule/the environment the main character, it'd follow that minimizing the chances or amount of distraction from looking around at/admiring said environment would be a consideration. Even if the idle animations are used to further express character, and even if only a very few people were taken out of whatever situation they were in by them, it's inevitable that they would distract someone at some point -- looking at it in a very broad design sense, right? Because that's kind of what an idle animation is on a fundamental gameplay level: a nudge from the game reminding you that you're not doing anything at all in a medium that is, by its very nature, interactive. Absentmindedly kicking dust off ones boots may be infinitely more subtle and/or innocuous than, say, tapping one's foot and staring directly at the camera & through the 4th wall, but it's a reminder all the same. Which is not to say that there shouldn't be idle animations at all or the like! And indeed, that there are so many different idlings for different contexts is a great level of attention to detail. I just think it's reasonable to wait a while for one to kick in, particularly for an open world game such as this. ...But that's enough outta me sitting in my armchair. :B
To quote the video: It happened while he was talking about it and he did not notice, most people wouldn't. Having it be a long time like this ensures you may as well remove it and nothing changes. Standing still for 1 minute not moving means you're AFK.
I loved that Commander Keen sat down and started reading a book when you didn't press any buttons for a while, it was like he was waiting for new player commands so he continued his book until you're back :D
I feel like the idle animations can sometimes feel like the character and therefore the game saying to the player “you’re not doing anything hurry up Link is impatient” especially if the same animation plays multiple times - whereas they are trying to foster a more chill, exploratory, slow pace and as such don’t want to interfere too much in your experience by drawing attention to how long link has been idle while you look around
My theory about the long delay before a fidget animation is that if you're standing still in this game, it's probably because you're scanning the horizon for the next place to go or for something that looks interesting. Most likely, you'll be doing this with the camera pointed at Link's back. Just like how there's often no music in the game (and if there is music it's often very subtle) I think this is another example of the designers allowing the game to just leave you alone. I find it very relaxing and helps to immerse you in the actual world... look at how small Link is on the screen and how so much of the game's visual and audio design is centered around that idea of portraying the "Breath of the Wild". Maybe they just don't want to distract you with fidget animations. Sonic's fidget animation is literally him looking really impatient. Well obviously they wouldn't have Link do that but they might be really hesitant to do anything that might change the vibe of those really peaceful scenes. I absolutely spent plenty of time stopping to take in the view and I do think a fidget animation would take away from that a bit. Oh well you eventually mentioned that idea. I didn't notice the idle earlier as well, but I do think they must have been very afraid of doing anything that might be distracting.
It really isn't hard to look around, it doesn't take more then a couple of seconds. You can then use a camera to mark interesting points. Or to put it bluntly, you shouldn't see Link's back when looking for periods of time.
I think some fun contextual fidget variations could be: -if the camera is angled to looked up, Link would tilt his head back to look around -camera downward, lean and crane his neck forward -in the sunlight close to noon or in the Gerudo region, hold his hand up to shield his eyes -inside a shrine, a head scratch or chin grab and a look of concentration -enemies nearby, quickly dart his head/eyes around -friendlies nearby, shuffle his feet or grab the back of his neck shyly
The looking around fidget would be pretty cute and also totally possible since Link already turns his head to look towards enemies and highlighted people when he's either passing by or standing near them. Him looking back over his shoulder towards an enemy that I am actively running away from is on point from my point of view.
I like how the cold fidget animation is timed so that you always lose health right when Link blows into his hands. It's not helpful, since you'd want to be moving out of the cold instead of standing in it, but I appreciate a visual cue for the damage timing.
I love the dogs in this game so much and they honestly have a lot more idle animations that happen a lot more often. They can sit, stand up, even chase their tail. Its honestly might not be link having less of them intentionally but all the creatures in the game wanting to get some focus with animations.
It would have been really cool to see more idles, like maybe he sits down if you idle too long on a grassy hill or something. These are really good points that get the mind going. I'm glad you point these out.
Wow. I easily have 300 hours in BOTW over various playthroughs, and I don't remember ever seeing Link do an idle animation. It seems like it must be a mistake to have the wait be >1 minute. On a somewhat unrelated note, I *highly* admire your ability to bring so much excitement/interest/intrigue to these sorts of niche animation topics. Brainstorming about possible idle animation improvements is not something that I think many people could make as interesting as you do. Looking forward to more wrong plays!
I thought I didn't care about examining game animation, and then I started watching NewFrame/PlayFrame. Thank you, Dan, for showing how something that appears bland on the surface can still be very interesting.
Hearing you talk about customizing pre-rendered cutscenes reminds me of the PS1 era where they would use the real time 3d models in the cutscenes. It would be a weird solution to the problem I think, but I kinda liked the old jank.
I rather like the infrequency of the fidgets, and my guess is it's intentional as part of the overall philosophy of minimalism for distracting elements. In BOTW, Link's physical body animations are actually a part of the UI that conveys functional informations as an alternative to the optional HUD. For example, he shivers when cold to reflect that he needs to wear warmer clothes and sweats when he needs cooler clothes. So frequent and obvious fidgets could be viewed as too distracting. BOTW also does everything it can to an extreme to place the focus of the game on the world itself as the 'main character' more than Link. It's a world that encourages you to get lost, take your time, and soak in the views, so some players (like me) may often have long stretches of idleness. I notice much more when a game has a frequent idle animation, and it actually makes the character feel more gamey and unnatural to see them do the same exact action every several seconds. I really enjoyed this examination though and learning more about all this! Really cool video topic!
I think the idle animations might take a while to play because they expect you to wait for some time in a few places. If they played too often, you'd see them every single time you stopped to make a plan, at which point they may get mildly intrusive. A game like Super Mario Odyssey, where you are always going to be bouncing around and doing things means that more common idle animations are once again not that frequent
Link's idle takes a long time to play, I assume it's because players may want to stop at like, mountain peaks, or in front of beautiful landscapes, and take pictures. So, Link doesn't move so that the players can take pictures. I think that's why, but I may be wrong.
23:27 So I have the answer for this! I have played a considerable amount of Genshin impact! (I know. I know) and each character does idles much more frequently. After about 30-45 seconds a character will okay one of their idles, and they usually have 2-3 idles. For instance, one of the characters, Amber can either do this fun exaggerated looking around gesture, she’ll play around with something she has on her, or one of her hair ribbons will blow in the wind and she’ll get startled! They’re… a lot more expressive than Link’s own idles.
the longest wait for an idle animation i can think of is in disco elysium, where if you wait in a certain spot with two characters for THIRTY MINUTES they start doing an animation where they link arms and take turns lifting each other up
It's these little touches of character that lends to building a credible lived-in world, and I LOVE IT. I don't always notice it and often times I'm not paying enough attention because I don't expect it, but when I notice it myself or hear about it and go back just to find it... Man does it make me happy with my purchase and well-spent spending power!
Your videos are my to go to comfort videos. Watching you break apart and analyze something you’re so knowledgeable and passionate in is just so enjoyable. And to top it off, your presentation and charisma on all your channels are always just top tier.
Yas! I love these. You literally mentioned my reasoning behind why I think the devs left Link’s idle so long. Like they might’ve been thinking about the time lapses that’d definitely spawn from this. That or it’s possible they accidentally set the startup for idle animations longer than they meant to (although that’s extremely unlikely).
By far my favorite idle is Mario falling asleep out of boredom. Especially in SMO, where a small bird will land on his nose and he also sleep-talks at least 30 different types of pasta.
The fidget thing is odd. I remember OOT Link took like 5-10 seconds, tapping his boots, or stretching or even practising with the sword. Maybe it's because you spend a lot of time looking off plateaus and stuff. But still it should animate after like 20 seconds or something
I actually appreciate that Link stands still for so long. I feel like it fits with the character as, like you mentioned, he was a royal guard, and a particularly stiff one at that. I mean, it is canonical that he rarely even speaks. Plus, could be that while he's standing out in the open he's focusing more on listening for danger rather than constantly trying to look in every possible direction.
Since the first thing I did after jumping off the Plateau was grab a horse I spent a lot of time with the horses, they actually have different animations based on how bonded Link is with them No bond horses will snap at Link when he sits on their backs and shake when he dismounts them cus hes a stinky hylian bastard who sat on them Low bonded horses will tuck their heads in and will be very grumpy, they still shake as well Mid bonded horses have a kind of neutral stance, they look at link but dont really react off and on And my absolute fave high to max bonded horses will do these adorable little snuffs and nickers at Link to show their affection and its legit the cutest thing Also if link kicks a chest while not wearing pants/shoes he'll clutch his then very sore toes
This game is still so pretty, and I still enjoy playing it. I guess OoT would be the first time Link got idle animations, huh? He'd tap his boots, adjust his tunic, or give his sword a swing. I like that each Link's personality comes through based on their idles. Gives them each a unique feel.
I think his idle animation still makes sense, it could be portrayed better, but he's not only a guard, that's also his personality, he's cold, always looking straight ahead most of the time, and, just to show how unexpressive he is, he took a vow of silence, that's how stoic link is, so I think this still fits him.
In contrast OoT Link is never fully still, always looking around, moving a bit. His fidgets starts after about 6 seconds and he cycles between a couple, he even has animations for having a shield, or a sword ready.
"What would we be doing in this situation?" just makes me wish that if left alone long enough Link would take out the Shiekah Slate to "check his phone."
another thing to note about the idle animations is that for every second in real life a minute goes by in the game, so link does his idle 1 hour and 7 minutes after he stops moving.
21:55 "have him do what the player is probably doing" is very, very hard. Different people use different body language. For me, for example, stretching and looking around would be a sign of anxiety, not being relaxed, and it would feel weird and off (it does even now) seeing that in a character without anything to elicit that response
I'd love to see link dig around in his pouches or check his weapons during idle animations if there was more time to put into idle animations it would be cool to see him tighten straps on armor or fix his gloves or really anything showing more character
I, too, hear Banjo Kazooie pause menu music every time I have to wait for something, and I can trace that quirk directly to the Sonic '06 play through. So it's always funny when it pops up.
EDIT: That's what I get for watching this video in two parts due to limited time and wanting to get my thoughts on the first half out while I was thinking them! Of course you explored and discussed most of the below in the second half of the video! The last part of my comment still applies though - some care would need to be taken to make sure Link doesn't do nonsensical animations that might hurt his character (e.g. Looking around in wonder when you have him standing in a corner facing the wall). Original Comment: I actually have an alternative argument for stoic standing Link other than his character background - Breath of the Wild is a beautiful game, and I think the developers expect players to just stop, stand around, and enjoy the atmosphere sometimes. I know I certainly did lots of times on my initial playthrough. In that regard, the choice to keep Link still for so long might be intentional to not intrude on that activity by distracting up the foreground with character-ful animations. Like you say, idle fidgets are a thing the character chooses to do of their own volition - at that point they are not being controlled by the player. My theory is perhaps they keep Link still for so long because if the player is stopping and just taking in the surroundings - so should Link. Having idle fidgets after the minute mark might have been kind of meeting halfway between that intention and keeping Link from feeling like a robot - I definitely agree he should have a few more in that regard - especially ones where he is surveying the surroundings if you're out in the wide open with no climbable surfaces nearby (it'd look silly for Link to look off in the distance dramatically if you're standing facing a cliff after all).
I think this is where the war the devs have with characterizing Link as his own person and keeping him a blank slate self insert is coming to a head here. I love his characterization details and it's almost more distracting that there's a stubborn need to keep him blank. I feel like they gave up that up when they forced his name to be Link.
Supposedly they never wanted the player to call him Link, it was a place holder name and you were expected to put your own name. Players were the ones who forced his name to be Link ironically.
My guess for why the idle takes so long is because the focus is meant to be on the landscape, not link, the world in botw is very still, more just looking over the landscape without too much movement, if link were to move it would draw attention to him so instead waiting makes the player focus on the scenery instead
A soldier in the wilderness would always be looking around, scanning the area for danger or resources. Could have just been subtle head turning and eye movement, as well as subtle arm movement to touch things on his belt or the sheika slate.
this isn't an idle, or even an animation, but my favorite of Link's little characterization moments is the audio that plays if you sleep in the blissful water bed in the zora's domain. he giggles and plays around in the bed, and the first time I heard it I couldn't help smiling
I wanna say the reason the idle fidgets take so long to play is because most of the time you’re idling is to look around to view the landscape or spot something hiding. So maybe they thought Link moving around might be a bit distracting.
22:37 I would have really liked it if there was an animation for Link to sit by a fire on the stool, or perhaps warming his hands. I would also have loved it if Link could lay down on beach beds, or sit cross-legged by pressing crouch a second time, or if we could _see_ Link get into bed and stay there until the player is ready to cut to black, rather than the game doing so optionally. The fact is, this _is_ a beautiful game and it's suprising Nintendo didn't perhaps recognise that fans would just want to sit, stare and relax at the scenery.
Another reason for not having idle fidgets in souls games is that it can give an invader clues as to whether the player is AFK or not. At least one of the Dark Souls games has a small pose change when the player is in the menus, but that's about it.
Not only that, but some of the suggestions you mention are things that his Ocarina of Time counter part already did! They'd Stretch, yawn, adjust his belt, and tap his boots on the ground.
I would have thought that a lack of idle fidgets would be an intentional design choice to keep from distracting players when they're just standing around drinking in the landscape. Like, they wouldn't want Link to appear twitchy and bored so that way the players aren't being pressured to get a move on.
1 minute doesn't sound long but when standing still looking at something 1 minute is quite a lot of time even if admiring a beautiful scenery... And idle animations don't have to be bored fidgets...they can be hand on the forehead like trying to see far off into the distance... slightly checking your weapon etc
I almost feel like they make the first idle take so long in accountance of the possibility that, this being an open world with lots of panoramas and "what's that in the distance" moments, you would often be standing still using your camera to look around, and having him fidget when you're actually using the camera as a lens, would be distracting. I also feel like the idea of having him stay still when you contemplate a vista has a hand in it too. Not that I know anything about the subject nor do I think that's such a compelling explanation.
They should’ve used Rivali, Mipha, Urbosa, and Daruk as idle animations. That would be amazing. For the master cycle, they could’ve made him play around on the cycle like he was a teenager.(which he is)
If i was going to have a character express that they were a disciplined guard, or something, i'd have them shift to stand at parade rest if they were idle for a while, and hold that pose. It's a good restful but disciplined position. (That is, straight back, hands folded behind back)
I find intesting that many of the possible idle fidgets you mention, such a shifting his weight, looking around, shaking the dirt out of his boots, adjusting his clothes, etc... are animations that were made in literally ALL previous 3D Zelda entries, all the way back to "Ocarina of Time". Which makes it a bit weirder that they didn't include them this time. And about the whole "Link is just an empty vessel for the player, hence his name"... I get the feeling that even inside the Zelda team there seems to be a quite big divide between the developers regarding how much of that estatement is actually true. Because if Link truly is just an empty vessel... they are doing a quite horrible job at it, and have been for decades. It's not only that Link always has a backstory and previous personal connections in literally all Zelda games since at leats "A Link to the Past", but also that he's always shown an actual personality. Yeah, a broadly drawn one with a lot of room for interpretation and self-projection, but still a personality. One that is shown through his body language and facial expressions since, once again, "Ocarina of Time". And with "Skyward Sword" they even started to add some extra personality traits in his dialogue tree choices (turns out he has quite a bit of a snark in both SS and BotW). Like I said, the only explanation I can think of is that, inside the Zelda team, different members have different visions of what Link is supposed to be as a character, and Aonuma and Fujibayashi just don't really have much of a strong opinion either way, so they leave their different team members to do what they feel is right.
Hi, it's me, again, nose deep in the emulation folder, bet the idle animations are inside contenct>actor>pack but searching for idle showed nothing, searching for link showed me arround 8 actions that may or may not be idles and the animations for the custom manes of the horses. apart from that, today is the big MAYBE coming from me beacause I dont know (yet) how to trigger those things. Obj_Head_024.sbactorpack to Obj_Head_029.sbactorpack MAY be the kilton mask and the dlc ones that has a noticeable animations. The extreme cold and heat are fast, mostly because those cause damage and has to be rapidly noticeable. The grimace is tied to taken damage by at least those things, and it can be stoped in the menu if you make it go a bit glichty, IRC so im goint to fight something later to check. the other "idle" animations are 3 for cooking ( BGM_CookingSuccess, BGM_CookingGreat and BGM_CookingFail ). Looking arround on that folder make me question if links legs are full ragdoll, has some scripted animations, or a combo of those but im on my way to the 8 heroine to goof arround and see if that bring something up.
Fun fact: In the same vein of Link kicking the chest to open it if he doesn't open it from the front (and hurting his foot if he's not wearing any sort of footwear), if you crouch and open a chest from anywhere other than the front, he'll *punch* it and hurt his hand instead.
this game had me stare at the scenery for a great amount of time, and I'm glad link didn't move much while I did. When characters start to fidget every other second while I'm doing nothing and just look at stuff, I feel like the character and therefore the game gets impatient with me for... appreciating it?? so I guess this minimal movement is intentional for the player to have a chill time and enjoy the environment. just a personal pet peeve when characters say stuff like "ahhh I really need to go to point x asap" after 5 seconds of no control input haha
The immense amount of time for Link's idle fidget kind of reminds me of how Donkey Kong 64 had a near-impossible-to-find hint system, where you had to crouch for *4 hours straight* to be given a hint on what to do next.
When it comes to BotW, my impression is that a lot more focus was given to gameplay and the primary mechanic (open world with shifting weather, day/night cycle, etc.) than to making Link a character. Aside from Link being very much an avatar for the player (it's true that he has his own character, but he's also the classic silent protagonist from JRPGs where a good portion of their personality is your projection or imagination), Link's idle animations are focused on context and on conveying information to the player. There's more variety/breadth for different situations (clothes and weather), but less variety/depth for the same situation (multiple animations in one situation). As for the freezing animation, aside from Link dying very soon due to the cold, it conveys information visually to the player, organically, that he's freezing. It has a purpose. I don't think there's much of a purpose to there being so few. I think it was just deprioritized from a game design perspective.
Dan isn't saying that the _existence_ of a freezing animation adds character-he's saying that the freezing animation is animated in a very character-ful manner. And it is! There are many more generic ways you can convey that information to the audience, and Nintendo chose none of them.
Link DOES have an idle for when it’s raining - if he’s crouched! A couple weeks ago, I had him crouched on a ledge while I waited for the weather to tick over so I could keep climbing. And while I was waiting, he lifted his hand and glanced upward, as if checking the rain.
You can often just brute force through climbing in the rain by jumping manually right before Link loses his grip and slides down. After jumping you will slide down, but it resets the time it takes for link to slide on his own, so you break even and can then continue climbing. Uses a lot of stamina.
@@ASpaceOstrich I'd started a new game, so I had only upgraded the Stamina Wheel once at that point. But thank you for the tip!
@@ASpaceOstrich But that still uses a ton of stamina, and doesn't get you nearly as far. I hope they really improve this with the next game, I think it's a real big oversight to not be able to best the rain... at all, it could be a good upgrade for the climbing gear. Like you can defeat the literal incarnation of malice and hatred that was cursed to be cyclically revived forever, but the rain? That's right out.
@@MrMoon-hy6pn Its not an oversight though. Its there to mix things up. When raining you can either find another path, find a path that allows you to make it despite the increased stamina usage of the jump method, or wait it out. There's even an area of permanent rain which relies on the difficulty of climbing in it to create a specific challenge.
Zora's domain for example is a combat gauntlet to reach the city which would be easily bypassed if not for the fact that the area is in permanent rainfall at first. Which leads the player to actually experience that combat guantlet and creates the illusion that the domain is under siege despite the game not actually having any systems that would allow for that.
Its not an oversight, its a deliberate decision. Technically the jumping method might be considered an oversight, as they likely intended for climbing to be impossible in the rain, rather than just much more difficult.
@@ASpaceOstrich Well for me anyway I find it incredibly unfun to go half way up a cliff face see it start raining then either go do something else or wait it out. Deliberate or not it's bad game design to limit the player in such a way for the entire game. Like the weapon breakage system it makes sense early on, zoras domain was fun because you had to fight or sneak your way up, but at end game it's just tedious. Plus the climbing gear already has upgrades that make it easier so I don't think extra grip while climbing in the rain is a stretch, its your reward for exploring, finding items and engaging with the game.
I low-key NEEDED link to lie down in the grass when idle. Mario does it in Mario Odyssey. I spent so much time in BOTW just standing about enjoying the view. Link shoulda taken a nap.
Just use up b with jiggly puff
Maybe in bitw 2
I was just thinking of something like that. Like, it'd be neat if i put my Switch down while I go get a snack, and come back to see Link sitting cross-legged on the ground, picking at the grass.
I wish that there was more reality to link as a character, shown through his idles.
Like, he should flop down on the grass when bored, when he's near a gate he should stiffen up and pretend to march in front of it (whole royal guard thing), near the castle or inside of it i think he should have a bit of free roam from his spot. If he's near a wall he should touch paintings and stuff.
Yeah! Mario also does it his other games and it makes sense! A little dream bubble, some snoring.
Our boy Link needs to sleep too!!
I'm guessing Link waits over a minute to do his idle fidget because he literally only has one (per outfit), and it would be very repetitive to see it pop up every 10-15 seconds.
Yeah, I'd totally believe that they had one fidget made and it was feeling weird to playtesters that he kept doing that same action so often, and making new fidgets wasn't nearly high enough a priority to try to squeeze in more before content lock, so they just extended the wait or something.
The solution to that, would be for the animation to take ~15 seconds to play the *first* time during an idle. Then every animation after the first takes a minute to play.
@@CheshireCad To add to this, I think the idle could be broken into chunks and he stretches each part separately
@@CheshireCad Maybe blacklist an idle animation for several minutes every time it's played; so the smallest move doesn't reset it.
Thinking about how the Genshin impact idol animations have played every ten seconds and how annoyed it can be.
Even considering the "stoic royal guard" angle, he probably should move his eyes a bit early on, scanning for threats, then some time later glancing back (realizing he is in an open field, not in front of a closed gate). And then, after the 1min mark, the stretching fidget he already has.
For contextual animations, he could have an almost completely still pose if holding a spear in front of a gate, just as an easter egg. It would be dev time spent on something almost no one would see, but it would be fun and reinforce the royal guard background story.
Totally agreed, that's the sort of specific and intentional acting choice that would sell me on the "it's because he's a stoic guard" (as opposed to just acting kinda vacant 95% of the time)
i honestly really like that he stays still for such a long time just because it's such a long game and you're probably going to spend so much time standing around and i really like the lack of much happening so that it's diluted/spread out
but i do agree that it would be nice for his eyes to move around sometimes as long as it doesn't happen too quickly and is relatively subtle, as well as a few other things as long as they don't happen too often/too quickly
i'd really like if they added a bit more for botw2 lol
I would agree if not for the amnesia. Rather, I'd say your exact scenario would be the perfect idea because he's basically rediscovering the world all over and shouldn't be so comfortable.
@@OtakuUnitedStudio true like when he enters the lost woods for the first time in his state of memory losss. The animals heard heavily trotting across the ground in the thick mist. Would be nice if he acted a bit self aware of the noises yet can't hardly see like his head looking around trying to detect it. Even a stoic guard would try to at least look at the surrounding area when hearing strange noises
They should’ve used Rivali, Mipha, Urbosa, and Daruk as idle animations. That would be amazing. For the master cycle, they could’ve made him play around on the cycle like he was a teenager.(which he is)
That cutscene of the towers emerging is most certainly pre-rendered because of all the different locations that are quickly cut between - there's simply no feasible way to load everything needed fast enough in real-time.
Xenoblade 1 does something similar with it's second cutscene, with a fast sweeping shot of many locations in the game. All the areas WERE rendered in engine at some point, but for similar reasons, they couldn't all be loaded so quickly back to back, so prerendered video of in engine footage is used, like it is here.
Trust me with BTB I have tried the game will chug
They should’ve used Rivali, Mipha, Urbosa, and Daruk as idle animations. That would be amazing. For the master cycle, they could’ve made him play around on the cycle like he was a teenager.(which he is)
If you datamine the game, yes, it is a prerendered video.
He did mention this in the last video =)
I actually think the infrequency of the idle fidget has less to do with Link's characterization, and more to do with where they wanted the eye focused. It feels to me like they wanted to avoid pulling the player's eye away from the scenery as much as possible. More a compromise on animation for the sake of scene. Even though I'd agree that I don't think minor fidgets would pull away focus enough, I could still see that sort of direction being given, especially when this was the BIG thing about BotW when it came out initially: it's open-world.
Only because Link is pretty well characterized everywhere else, I can imagine it being a purposeful choice by the design team.
I have a guess as to why the fidle takes so long, based on my memory of playing the game for the first time.
I remember that I would stop and look at the horizon a lot. Look at the mountains, hills and paths I could see in the distance to find my next way point. Specifically atop the Towers.
So I think the reasoning behind the full minute before the fidle is to make the act of stopping and looking into the distance feel like part of the gameplay, rather than something you stop playing to do.
I think that's the idea at least.
I agree with that. I’d often end up in a nice part of the map, set Link up, and take some pics. And it does just feel like he’s taking in his surroundings. Especially if you’re probably behind him.
Yeah i VERY strongly agree with this. I can imagine playtesters perhaps actually feeling MORE immersed when Link's relative stillness was ramped up rather than a constant barrage of idle animations when so much of the game can consist of just trying to take in/examine the enviornment.
Until youre trying to do that in another game you dont realize how often they move around
An idle animation also serves as a signal to the player that the game knows you're just standing around. Imo, idle animations often have the attitude of "Damn, you're boring. Go do something."
Right and he has selfie poses in the camera if you WANT him to move around a bit
17:27 - "I'm confused by their intent"
I'm really glad you framed it this way. I've seen so many critiques of Japanese developed games, particularly Elden Ring and Breath of the Wild that deliberately break from western norms, where the person critiquing the game would just straight up say "this is wrong and bad and here's how I would fix it and make it better" and it's almost always just projection, they assume the intent was to be like every other open world game and the devs just got it wrong.
Nintendo spent _years_ working on this game, they made decisions with specific intent and direction, and yes sometimes it's confusing cause we only have the finished product to work with, game development is not a straight line from start to finish and things can be tweaked all the way up to and past a game's release, but they _do_ have a specific reason for why some idle animations take over a minute to trigger, and a lack up understanding on our part is in no way a mistake on their part.
Anyway, at a guess, the intent would be to put more focus on the open world and less on Link, save for moments where he's in mortal peril from the environment. They could have given him way more character, but as always it's a challenging balancing act on how much character *should* Link have in any given Zelda game, and for this specific game they went with less character and more player vessel. Link is very snappy and functional, the movement in this game is very natural feeling, which shows a _lot_ of polish went into the controls and game feel and that would have a cost to the animation, so stuff like picking up items would have been relegated to a very basic motion that can read as "picking up a thing" but won't interfere with movement at all.
So their priorities are making the controls as responsive as possible, and animation as purely functional. At least, that's how I read it.
100% agree with everything you said. I'm really glad you mentioned the facts of Japanese game companies breaking from the norm, as a big fan of Elden Ring I've also seen a lot of people get it wrong. Thank you for your input.
11:30 For example, stoic people (among others) do this maneuver called "blinking" which I have not seen Link do here.
Impossible. There's no way the legends of the so-called "blink" can be true.
he literally blinks right at that second?
I'm confused. Didn't he just do that?
240p viewer anyone?
Seems like link really do blink when you bkink my friend.
"Link kicking the chest with a bare foot and then being hurt is super cute and shows some personality" alternative take: shows you just how much of a dumb boy Link can be.
A cute dumb boy.
If you crouch behind a chest and open it, he’ll just full-on punch it. I found this out while sneaking around in the Yiga base xD
Hes our dumb cute kid lol
GameSpot have done half a dozen videos on things you didn't know about Breath of the Wild, and somehow Dan has still managed to add yet more to that conversation with this WrongPlay addendum.
Way more than half a dozen, it's an ongoing regular series with at least a couple dozen videos.
I think the reason he waits for so long before fidgeting is in case the player is looking at something ahead. If Link started looking around it getting distracted, it would server the bond between what you're doing and what Link is doing.
yeah i completely agree.. i feel like if the idle animation happened quicker or was any more frequent id just get really distracted and annoyed
If the amount of wait time on that fidget is indeed intentional, then my only guess is they imagined if you're standing still, you're probably taking in the view and enjoying the titular _breath of the wild,_ and Link shouldn't distract from that. As if they wanted to invoke the feeling of staring at a painting.
I do agree with your point though - it would've been really cool to have Link admire the scenery _alongside_ the player. I certainly would've preferred that!
(Welp, I should've waited a mere 5 minutes before writing this one, clearly I wasn't the only one who thought of this!)
So I know that Link's walk changes when he wears monster masks (the Moblin, Lizalfos, Lynel masks), and I *think* that happens with other clothing sets. So, and I'm not certain on this, I think maybe different outfits have different idle fidgets? Like the Gerudo Outfit could change things. That could be something to test.
The masks don't change the walking animation. Link gets a more active idle animation, but his walk is completely the same.
@@EllieGrace05 Links walk (tilting the joystick only a bit) does indeed change. His jog (full tilt) is unchanged.
@@TheBlackLantern34 his walk changes?
If I had to guess why Link's idle animation is like this - outside of it just being less of a focus due to the game's scope - it would be that the developers were aiming for his behavior to be more reactionary and/or passive in nature. He's been woken up from a 100 year slumber in a place he doesn't recognize, with very little context about what's happening around him. He's kind of detached from what's around him, so most of his idle expression is just him reacting to immediate stimuli. He reacts to temperatures, getting tired, something getting on his hand, etc. So what does he do when he's just standing there, clothed with weapons on his back? He does some stretches to avoid stiffening up - probably just muscle memory in that case.
In a sense, he's all business in this game because he doesn't really know what else he should be. I certainly can't say it's a sensible explanation if it's even accurate... but I do think it makes some sense of what Breath of the Wild's dev team was aiming for.
I absolutely agree, though, that a looking-around animation would have been a good touch. Maybe the tech that lets his head point towards certain things like villagers or enemies made that more complicated to implement, though I'm pretty sure that hasn't stopped them before.
Breath of the Wild is a surprisingly strange game in places.
Absolutely strange. For instance, the lack of alternate sword swings when compared to every other 3D Zelda. Ever since I noticed he can't even thrust, it's like "why are we still here?...Just to suffer?"
1 minute, 7 seconds = 67 seconds = 67000 milliseconds
The maximum value of an unsigned short is 65535.
I wonder if someone thought a parameter took a signed short instead of an unsigned short or something.
We don't actually see the exact frame that Dan stops moving Link, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's ~1.5 seconds of fudge in the timing of when the fidget was supposed to fire
Wow, an actual integer underflow in the wild ...the breath of ... or something
I don't think that makes sense.
If you convert it back from unsigned to signed, that would mean the _intended_ value for the delay was... -1.
Even if you took a slightly lower value, you'd still get a negative number when signed, (an even bigger one at that), until you reach 32767 and below, at which point it makes no difference whether the short is signed or unsigned.
Bitwise operations aside, I also find it odd that a parameter intended to hold a _time value_ would be limited to barely above a minute; that's not the kind of optimisation a developer would make without a _really_ good reason.
@@StickmanCorp it could be any smallish negative number and you'd get a similar result. -1 (maybe by accident and intended to be +1) could be "wait at least 1 second to idle", and would be hard for us to tell the difference between 1 and 3 without counting frames carefully
67 seconds at 30fps is just over two thousand frames (2010 to be exact). Maybe they originally targeted a ~30s wait before the fidget at 60fps, before letting the frames drop, but not revisiting the idle wait?
Or do people only use time and not frames nowadays?
@@StickmanCorp After thinking about it a little more, a more likely explanation is that whatever variable they're using to store the loop interval is incorrectly set to Max Unsigned Short or 0. The Freezing and Overheating idle fidget looks like it loops every ~3 seconds, so that interval needs to be kept somewhere. If the intention for that variable was to trigger an idle fidget every few seconds, it seems reasonable if the variable was originally a longer int type, but got reworked into a short as part of an optimization pass and the default idle fidget got messed up in the process.
4:55: Dan: "How long do we have to wait until Link does anything?"
Zelda: "That's what I've been wondering! Did he just _forget_ about Ganon?!?"
16:10: Dozing off, just like you'd expect a professional-to-the-point-of-lifelessness guard to do.
6:20: And it's _especially_ especially important when some people in the audience are _expecting_ a blank slate, because you _need_ the audience to recognize he _isn't._
11:25: I'm so disappointed that Dan didn't finish with "...as a characterization of absence".
16:55: I'm pretty sure the grimace is just a hit react to the heat damage, not a fidget.
19:35: I mean, yes, being that kind of factory-reset neutral would make you an amnesiac, but that doesn't go both ways.
no, being an amnesiac does not actually rest you. Most amnesiacs still remember how to do things and can function, they just don't have the memories associated with the skills they have learned. so for example an amnesiac could drive a car because it is a learned skills, they just wouldn't remember having taken classes or tests. This does also mean if they come up on a sign that they didn't normally encounter they won't know what to do, but simple and common signs can still be followed, like knowing the red sign means stop or the green light means go.
the difference is Declarative and non-declarative (procedural) memory systems. it'd probably be easier for you to google that instead of me dropping a massive wall of text.
@@NoESanity That's...exactly what I said? I said the reverse was true-that a factory reset would give you amnesia-and that that did _not_ mean the reverse was also true.
@@timothymclean so you did. I'm going to blame having read and commented this during my lunch break and just say I misread it.
Link: Great! Another Korok turd! Just a few more till I round out my colle--huh? Ganon? Oh, riiiiiiight!
Feels so odd to have him at almost a soldier's rest for so long when other Links from, say, Wind Waker were almost always doing something to make the character more alive. Even if it was just his eyes
Maybe they developers expected the players to always be on the move in the open world? And that wasn't a place to put extra resources?
But yeah a 1:07 to move is notable
It might come down to only having a single idle per situation. They might've thought that playing the same animation too often felt more artificial than just keeping the neutral idle.
TBF, hero of the wilds is the only link so far to have been a trained solider. (well him and hyrule warriors who does not have a hero name and is also non-canon)
@@NoESanity An honorable mention for Skyward Sword's Link, who was about to graduate from a knight academy. I never played it so I'm not aware of whether he was a soldierly idle animation or not, though.
@@chad_bro_chill He hasn't, but at the same time, Link is characterized to be a bit of a goofball in "Skyward Sword", so it's not that surprising.
Especially since in the game, that's over an hour and a half at the soldier's rest...
He should've had the "tappy feet" animation present in OOT, WW, and TP (if not more, those are just where I noticed it) if he's wearing shoes/or just boots. I'd be very happy if he had that, it's so cute, plus it'd tie him to the other Links in a small way which is fun, there's tons of other references in this game after all.
My absolute favorite pastime in this game is shield surfing on Hebra mountain. I completely lost my mind when I first noticed Link laugh when you do a spin on the shield. It was so adorable that I kept leaping around just to see what would trigger it! I feel like even though there isn't much in terms of quantity when it comes to Link's character tics in this game, it's the rarity of those moments that make them stand out so much more when you DO notice. 99% of the time, we are treating BOTW Link as a puppet to explore the world, until he suddenly ISN'T and you're smacked with the realization that he is a whole-ass person you're taking on an adventure with you.
Awww is there a clip of this somewhere?
He smiles when he pets a house
Another interesting point about the idle animations in this game: there is no idle for cooking (if you leave the description of the dish on screen after cooking it), but there IS an idle if you get a critical cook (again, leaving the dish description on screen). Interesting that there is only an idle in the rare instance, especially since you likely aren't going to spend a lot of time with the dish description on screen
:O
That's cute !
That actually fits, considering a bit of in-game lore. If you find Zelda's diary in the castle, you can read it to find out that Link can NOT resist a delicious meal. and considering the rest of what she writes about in that same part (something about how Link wants to just take everything in stride and just deal with it) it makes perfect sense that the most expressive and happy we ever see Link is when he's face-to-face with a perfect meal.
I'd almost forgotten about that. I took the time to watch them all once. He wipes his mouth or something when he gets the special meals.
@@reagansido5823 ...ok, that's just freaking adorable.
This isn't an intended animation but if you want to see a dumb upper body/lower body animation combo, try "whistle sprinting", it's a speedrunning trick where you sprint forwards and rapidly tap whistle and results in you running at slightly less than full pace but you also don't lose stamina. Anyway, the animation result is that his lower half is in a dead sprint and his upper half is straight back at attention and whistling. Very dumb and very unintended but just in case you wanted to know 😂
It really looks like they had a bit of a Programing bug that is chaining three different idles one after the other. The wrist stretch, neck stretch, and arm stretch really look like three different actions. Having such a long wait and running the one sequence really stand out as possibly being a bug
I highly doubt it, since he starts each action before returning to his idle pose. He starts moving his neck before his arms drop to his sides, for example.
A bug that happens 100% of the time?
Idle Animations are fun- because I grew up playing Ocarina of Time, I actually adopted some of Young Link's Idle Animations naturally, when I find myself standing idly for too long. From that game, Young Link taps his boots now and again, does a yawn + stretch looking at how big his wingspan is, and adjusts like his belt here and there ☺️ I do the boot tap/stretch all the time lmao
It really is odd that this Link doesn't display as much emotion in terms of fidgets when Wind Waker Link was just SO expressive 100% of the time.
If I had to guess, I’d say it’s probably because Wind Link was still a child (and the cartoony art style certainly had some influence there as well) whereas Wild Link used to be a royal guard, who’s implied to have some sort of war trauma even before The Calamity, and afterwards woke up without any memories of anything, and the land he finds himself in in absolute ruins
For Link's idle fidget: Maybe it's leaning into the fact that he's been standing still for so long. Hence why it's a little stretch.
Hmm, that's an interesting take. "I've been standing here for a minute of your time, that's an hour of my time, will you move me, already???"
I think the "programming error" idea definitely has merit, but I wonder if it really could be intentional. A lot of things are deliberately stripped down - the music is just occasional notes, forex. Link is not a character with a ton of personality, either. Keeping things very quiet and still *could* be a design choice. It kinda fits.
I must say, this was a very profound and entertaining way of destroying everyone's perception of their Souls character. :D
I'll have to agree with him, most by Dark Souls 2 and Elden Rings intros. You have died, died more times then you can recall any of your past, lost your way and that's even before reaching the starting line. A nobody, even if you once had some title, or did you just take up the mantle of another dead, does it matter?
Why make an idle for Souls characters?
you don't stand Idle too long in a Souls game, that's asking to get killed, it's like one of the most basic rules of the franchise aside from always running with your shield up
I always enjoy hearing you ramble about animation, Dan; you're an insightful guy, and I appreciate that you take the time to say "This is from my perspective" and not just saying "Oh, they should've done this because it's objectively a better choice". You acknowledge that you don't have all the answers, but don't sell your viewpoint short either.
I like that if you have Link "show off his guns" as they say, he will, in fact, show off his guns and almost admire them.
"Can someone call a vet? Because THESE pythons" *flexes hard* "are SICK!"
So, about that first idle animation and why it took so long... BotW has the most absolutely beautiful vistas, and Link is the silent self-insert. Him gazing off into the distance as if mesmerized by the view cues us into doing the same, and prevents him from distracting us from enjoying the view. Again, you did it sub-consciously: when we were waiting over a minute, what did you do? You scanned the beautiful skyline knowing your viewers would enjoy that. Then, what idle animation did he do? A little limber up and stretch as if he's ready to get going, encouraging the player to play on. If he did the same idle animation every 20 seconds while I enjoyed the view, he would actually seem more like a robot.
There is a middle ground though -- play it after ~25 seconds the first time, and then have a minute delay between subsequent uses of the animation
Dan has such an amazing and entertaining way of explaining things. As an aspiring animator, I'm learning so much about animation, techniques and what goes behind the mind of animator. Thank you :)
I would love to see you expand on some modern examples of idle fidgets you really like, or stand out to you. Because I know you're right, that they're very common in modern third person games, and modern games technology really expands what characters can do, how much personality they can casually show, but I feel like I never hear anyone highlighting any in particular.
The more I see that idle, the weirder it feels. If we go by in game interactions, BotW Link is a goofball. When the old man asks what you're going to do with his torch, Link can respond "It's a secret." He plays along with Purah and her shenanigans when she asks him to give her a snap. He drools over food. He flexes with his shirt off. He does a little fist pump to show he's ready to go once he gets his stamina back. Link is just an overall silly guy.
And then his idle is complete robot. Stock still perfect posture no expression for a full minute. It really feels like they sacrificed his main idle for the sake of player immersion or some other gameplay reason. And because that idle is the thing you see the most, it overshadows the other examples of Link's personality. Link comes off first and foremost as a well trained soldier, a cold and stoic warrior, despite the fact that he's supposed to be a bright eyed and curious lad without any of the heavy baggage of his past thanks to his memory loss.
I dunno; I kinda feel like taking extra long to start an idle animation makes sense in the context of BotW? At least insofar as I've heard the driving goal was to make Hyrule/the environment the main character, it'd follow that minimizing the chances or amount of distraction from looking around at/admiring said environment would be a consideration. Even if the idle animations are used to further express character, and even if only a very few people were taken out of whatever situation they were in by them, it's inevitable that they would distract someone at some point -- looking at it in a very broad design sense, right? Because that's kind of what an idle animation is on a fundamental gameplay level: a nudge from the game reminding you that you're not doing anything at all in a medium that is, by its very nature, interactive. Absentmindedly kicking dust off ones boots may be infinitely more subtle and/or innocuous than, say, tapping one's foot and staring directly at the camera & through the 4th wall, but it's a reminder all the same.
Which is not to say that there shouldn't be idle animations at all or the like! And indeed, that there are so many different idlings for different contexts is a great level of attention to detail. I just think it's reasonable to wait a while for one to kick in, particularly for an open world game such as this.
...But that's enough outta me sitting in my armchair. :B
To quote the video: It happened while he was talking about it and he did not notice, most people wouldn't.
Having it be a long time like this ensures you may as well remove it and nothing changes. Standing still for 1 minute not moving means you're AFK.
I loved that Commander Keen sat down and started reading a book when you didn't press any buttons for a while, it was like he was waiting for new player commands so he continued his book until you're back :D
I feel like the idle animations can sometimes feel like the character and therefore the game saying to the player “you’re not doing anything hurry up Link is impatient” especially if the same animation plays multiple times - whereas they are trying to foster a more chill, exploratory, slow pace and as such don’t want to interfere too much in your experience by drawing attention to how long link has been idle while you look around
My theory about the long delay before a fidget animation is that if you're standing still in this game, it's probably because you're scanning the horizon for the next place to go or for something that looks interesting. Most likely, you'll be doing this with the camera pointed at Link's back. Just like how there's often no music in the game (and if there is music it's often very subtle) I think this is another example of the designers allowing the game to just leave you alone. I find it very relaxing and helps to immerse you in the actual world... look at how small Link is on the screen and how so much of the game's visual and audio design is centered around that idea of portraying the "Breath of the Wild". Maybe they just don't want to distract you with fidget animations.
Sonic's fidget animation is literally him looking really impatient. Well obviously they wouldn't have Link do that but they might be really hesitant to do anything that might change the vibe of those really peaceful scenes. I absolutely spent plenty of time stopping to take in the view and I do think a fidget animation would take away from that a bit.
Oh well you eventually mentioned that idea. I didn't notice the idle earlier as well, but I do think they must have been very afraid of doing anything that might be distracting.
It really isn't hard to look around, it doesn't take more then a couple of seconds. You can then use a camera to mark interesting points.
Or to put it bluntly, you shouldn't see Link's back when looking for periods of time.
I think some fun contextual fidget variations could be:
-if the camera is angled to looked up, Link would tilt his head back to look around
-camera downward, lean and crane his neck forward
-in the sunlight close to noon or in the Gerudo region, hold his hand up to shield his eyes
-inside a shrine, a head scratch or chin grab and a look of concentration
-enemies nearby, quickly dart his head/eyes around
-friendlies nearby, shuffle his feet or grab the back of his neck shyly
The looking around fidget would be pretty cute and also totally possible since Link already turns his head to look towards enemies and highlighted people when he's either passing by or standing near them. Him looking back over his shoulder towards an enemy that I am actively running away from is on point from my point of view.
The way Link sways violently when sped up 💀
I like how the cold fidget animation is timed so that you always lose health right when Link blows into his hands. It's not helpful, since you'd want to be moving out of the cold instead of standing in it, but I appreciate a visual cue for the damage timing.
I love the dogs in this game so much and they honestly have a lot more idle animations that happen a lot more often. They can sit, stand up, even chase their tail. Its honestly might not be link having less of them intentionally but all the creatures in the game wanting to get some focus with animations.
It would have been really cool to see more idles, like maybe he sits down if you idle too long on a grassy hill or something. These are really good points that get the mind going. I'm glad you point these out.
Wow. I easily have 300 hours in BOTW over various playthroughs, and I don't remember ever seeing Link do an idle animation. It seems like it must be a mistake to have the wait be >1 minute.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I *highly* admire your ability to bring so much excitement/interest/intrigue to these sorts of niche animation topics. Brainstorming about possible idle animation improvements is not something that I think many people could make as interesting as you do. Looking forward to more wrong plays!
I thought I didn't care about examining game animation, and then I started watching NewFrame/PlayFrame. Thank you, Dan, for showing how something that appears bland on the surface can still be very interesting.
Hearing you talk about customizing pre-rendered cutscenes reminds me of the PS1 era where they would use the real time 3d models in the cutscenes. It would be a weird solution to the problem I think, but I kinda liked the old jank.
I rather like the infrequency of the fidgets, and my guess is it's intentional as part of the overall philosophy of minimalism for distracting elements. In BOTW, Link's physical body animations are actually a part of the UI that conveys functional informations as an alternative to the optional HUD. For example, he shivers when cold to reflect that he needs to wear warmer clothes and sweats when he needs cooler clothes. So frequent and obvious fidgets could be viewed as too distracting.
BOTW also does everything it can to an extreme to place the focus of the game on the world itself as the 'main character' more than Link. It's a world that encourages you to get lost, take your time, and soak in the views, so some players (like me) may often have long stretches of idleness.
I notice much more when a game has a frequent idle animation, and it actually makes the character feel more gamey and unnatural to see them do the same exact action every several seconds.
I really enjoyed this examination though and learning more about all this! Really cool video topic!
I think the idle animations might take a while to play because they expect you to wait for some time in a few places. If they played too often, you'd see them every single time you stopped to make a plan, at which point they may get mildly intrusive. A game like Super Mario Odyssey, where you are always going to be bouncing around and doing things means that more common idle animations are once again not that frequent
Link's idle takes a long time to play, I assume it's because players may want to stop at like, mountain peaks, or in front of beautiful landscapes, and take pictures. So, Link doesn't move so that the players can take pictures.
I think that's why, but I may be wrong.
23:27
So I have the answer for this! I have played a considerable amount of Genshin impact! (I know. I know) and each character does idles much more frequently.
After about 30-45 seconds a character will okay one of their idles, and they usually have 2-3 idles. For instance, one of the characters, Amber can either do this fun exaggerated looking around gesture, she’ll play around with something she has on her, or one of her hair ribbons will blow in the wind and she’ll get startled! They’re… a lot more expressive than Link’s own idles.
the longest wait for an idle animation i can think of is in disco elysium, where if you wait in a certain spot with two characters for THIRTY MINUTES they start doing an animation where they link arms and take turns lifting each other up
In the Japanese ver of BOTW. Those quests are acutally written by Link while Eng ver does it in 2nd person view. So Link is himself a character.
It's these little touches of character that lends to building a credible lived-in world, and I LOVE IT. I don't always notice it and often times I'm not paying enough attention because I don't expect it, but when I notice it myself or hear about it and go back just to find it... Man does it make me happy with my purchase and well-spent spending power!
Your videos are my to go to comfort videos.
Watching you break apart and analyze something you’re so knowledgeable and passionate in is just so enjoyable. And to top it off, your presentation and charisma on all your channels are always just top tier.
Yas! I love these.
You literally mentioned my reasoning behind why I think the devs left Link’s idle so long. Like they might’ve been thinking about the time lapses that’d definitely spawn from this.
That or it’s possible they accidentally set the startup for idle animations longer than they meant to (although that’s extremely unlikely).
By far my favorite idle is Mario falling asleep out of boredom. Especially in SMO, where a small bird will land on his nose and he also sleep-talks at least 30 different types of pasta.
This is definitely a good series to be continuing
The fidget thing is odd. I remember OOT Link took like 5-10 seconds, tapping his boots, or stretching or even practising with the sword.
Maybe it's because you spend a lot of time looking off plateaus and stuff. But still it should animate after like 20 seconds or something
That one fidget could easily have been split in to 3 or 4, it almost seems too much all together.
I love hearing people talk about their passions, skills, and expertise. I say keep these wrong plays coming. ^_^
I actually appreciate that Link stands still for so long. I feel like it fits with the character as, like you mentioned, he was a royal guard, and a particularly stiff one at that. I mean, it is canonical that he rarely even speaks. Plus, could be that while he's standing out in the open he's focusing more on listening for danger rather than constantly trying to look in every possible direction.
Since the first thing I did after jumping off the Plateau was grab a horse I spent a lot of time with the horses, they actually have different animations based on how bonded Link is with them
No bond horses will snap at Link when he sits on their backs and shake when he dismounts them cus hes a stinky hylian bastard who sat on them
Low bonded horses will tuck their heads in and will be very grumpy, they still shake as well
Mid bonded horses have a kind of neutral stance, they look at link but dont really react off and on
And my absolute fave high to max bonded horses will do these adorable little snuffs and nickers at Link to show their affection and its legit the cutest thing
Also if link kicks a chest while not wearing pants/shoes he'll clutch his then very sore toes
This game is still so pretty, and I still enjoy playing it. I guess OoT would be the first time Link got idle animations, huh? He'd tap his boots, adjust his tunic, or give his sword a swing. I like that each Link's personality comes through based on their idles. Gives them each a unique feel.
I think his idle animation still makes sense, it could be portrayed better, but he's not only a guard, that's also his personality, he's cold, always looking straight ahead most of the time, and, just to show how unexpressive he is, he took a vow of silence, that's how stoic link is, so I think this still fits him.
In contrast OoT Link is never fully still, always looking around, moving a bit. His fidgets starts after about 6 seconds and he cycles between a couple, he even has animations for having a shield, or a sword ready.
I really disagree with calling this "nonsense" (like at 24:40) . This is very valuable knowledge for those who want to make a game.
"What would we be doing in this situation?" just makes me wish that if left alone long enough Link would take out the Shiekah Slate to "check his phone."
another thing to note about the idle animations is that for every second in real life a minute goes by in the game, so link does his idle 1 hour and 7 minutes after he stops moving.
21:55 "have him do what the player is probably doing" is very, very hard. Different people use different body language. For me, for example, stretching and looking around would be a sign of anxiety, not being relaxed, and it would feel weird and off (it does even now) seeing that in a character without anything to elicit that response
I'd love to see link dig around in his pouches or check his weapons during idle animations
if there was more time to put into idle animations it would be cool to see him tighten straps on armor or fix his gloves or really anything showing more character
I, too, hear Banjo Kazooie pause menu music every time I have to wait for something, and I can trace that quirk directly to the Sonic '06 play through. So it's always funny when it pops up.
EDIT: That's what I get for watching this video in two parts due to limited time and wanting to get my thoughts on the first half out while I was thinking them! Of course you explored and discussed most of the below in the second half of the video! The last part of my comment still applies though - some care would need to be taken to make sure Link doesn't do nonsensical animations that might hurt his character (e.g. Looking around in wonder when you have him standing in a corner facing the wall).
Original Comment:
I actually have an alternative argument for stoic standing Link other than his character background - Breath of the Wild is a beautiful game, and I think the developers expect players to just stop, stand around, and enjoy the atmosphere sometimes. I know I certainly did lots of times on my initial playthrough. In that regard, the choice to keep Link still for so long might be intentional to not intrude on that activity by distracting up the foreground with character-ful animations. Like you say, idle fidgets are a thing the character chooses to do of their own volition - at that point they are not being controlled by the player. My theory is perhaps they keep Link still for so long because if the player is stopping and just taking in the surroundings - so should Link.
Having idle fidgets after the minute mark might have been kind of meeting halfway between that intention and keeping Link from feeling like a robot - I definitely agree he should have a few more in that regard - especially ones where he is surveying the surroundings if you're out in the wide open with no climbable surfaces nearby (it'd look silly for Link to look off in the distance dramatically if you're standing facing a cliff after all).
I think this is where the war the devs have with characterizing Link as his own person and keeping him a blank slate self insert is coming to a head here. I love his characterization details and it's almost more distracting that there's a stubborn need to keep him blank. I feel like they gave up that up when they forced his name to be Link.
Supposedly they never wanted the player to call him Link, it was a place holder name and you were expected to put your own name.
Players were the ones who forced his name to be Link ironically.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 i think this goes to show that most players prefer the die aof link being his own person
At 16:50 I'm pretty sure the face thing wasn't an idle animation, but a damage animation. You were losing hearts when he did it
My guess for why the idle takes so long is because the focus is meant to be on the landscape, not link, the world in botw is very still, more just looking over the landscape without too much movement, if link were to move it would draw attention to him so instead waiting makes the player focus on the scenery instead
A soldier in the wilderness would always be looking around, scanning the area for danger or resources. Could have just been subtle head turning and eye movement, as well as subtle arm movement to touch things on his belt or the sheika slate.
this isn't an idle, or even an animation, but my favorite of Link's little characterization moments is the audio that plays if you sleep in the blissful water bed in the zora's domain. he giggles and plays around in the bed, and the first time I heard it I couldn't help smiling
I wanna say the reason the idle fidgets take so long to play is because most of the time you’re idling is to look around to view the landscape or spot something hiding. So maybe they thought Link moving around might be a bit distracting.
22:37 I would have really liked it if there was an animation for Link to sit by a fire on the stool, or perhaps warming his hands. I would also have loved it if Link could lay down on beach beds, or sit cross-legged by pressing crouch a second time, or if we could _see_ Link get into bed and stay there until the player is ready to cut to black, rather than the game doing so optionally. The fact is, this _is_ a beautiful game and it's suprising Nintendo didn't perhaps recognise that fans would just want to sit, stare and relax at the scenery.
Another reason for not having idle fidgets in souls games is that it can give an invader clues as to whether the player is AFK or not.
At least one of the Dark Souls games has a small pose change when the player is in the menus, but that's about it.
Not only that, but some of the suggestions you mention are things that his Ocarina of Time counter part already did!
They'd Stretch, yawn, adjust his belt, and tap his boots on the ground.
I would have thought that a lack of idle fidgets would be an intentional design choice to keep from distracting players when they're just standing around drinking in the landscape. Like, they wouldn't want Link to appear twitchy and bored so that way the players aren't being pressured to get a move on.
1 minute doesn't sound long but when standing still looking at something 1 minute is quite a lot of time even if admiring a beautiful scenery...
And idle animations don't have to be bored fidgets...they can be hand on the forehead like trying to see far off into the distance... slightly checking your weapon etc
I almost feel like they make the first idle take so long in accountance of the possibility that, this being an open world with lots of panoramas and "what's that in the distance" moments, you would often be standing still using your camera to look around, and having him fidget when you're actually using the camera as a lens, would be distracting.
I also feel like the idea of having him stay still when you contemplate a vista has a hand in it too. Not that I know anything about the subject nor do I think that's such a compelling explanation.
Streams of wrong plays sounds absolutely amazing and I'm looking forward to whenever and whatever happens!
They should’ve used Rivali, Mipha, Urbosa, and Daruk as idle animations. That would be amazing. For the master cycle, they could’ve made him play around on the cycle like he was a teenager.(which he is)
I like how in Mario 64, Mario falls asleep and dreams of food.
If i was going to have a character express that they were a disciplined guard, or something, i'd have them shift to stand at parade rest if they were idle for a while, and hold that pose. It's a good restful but disciplined position.
(That is, straight back, hands folded behind back)
I find intesting that many of the possible idle fidgets you mention, such a shifting his weight, looking around, shaking the dirt out of his boots, adjusting his clothes, etc... are animations that were made in literally ALL previous 3D Zelda entries, all the way back to "Ocarina of Time". Which makes it a bit weirder that they didn't include them this time.
And about the whole "Link is just an empty vessel for the player, hence his name"... I get the feeling that even inside the Zelda team there seems to be a quite big divide between the developers regarding how much of that estatement is actually true. Because if Link truly is just an empty vessel... they are doing a quite horrible job at it, and have been for decades.
It's not only that Link always has a backstory and previous personal connections in literally all Zelda games since at leats "A Link to the Past", but also that he's always shown an actual personality. Yeah, a broadly drawn one with a lot of room for interpretation and self-projection, but still a personality. One that is shown through his body language and facial expressions since, once again, "Ocarina of Time". And with "Skyward Sword" they even started to add some extra personality traits in his dialogue tree choices (turns out he has quite a bit of a snark in both SS and BotW).
Like I said, the only explanation I can think of is that, inside the Zelda team, different members have different visions of what Link is supposed to be as a character, and Aonuma and Fujibayashi just don't really have much of a strong opinion either way, so they leave their different team members to do what they feel is right.
6:07 that is kind of breath of the wild
Hi, it's me, again, nose deep in the emulation folder, bet the idle animations are inside contenct>actor>pack but searching for idle showed nothing, searching for link showed me arround 8 actions that may or may not be idles and the animations for the custom manes of the horses. apart from that, today is the big MAYBE coming from me beacause I dont know (yet) how to trigger those things.
Obj_Head_024.sbactorpack to Obj_Head_029.sbactorpack MAY be the kilton mask and the dlc ones that has a noticeable animations.
The extreme cold and heat are fast, mostly because those cause damage and has to be rapidly noticeable. The grimace is tied to taken damage by at least those things, and it can be stoped in the menu if you make it go a bit glichty, IRC so im goint to fight something later to check.
the other "idle" animations are 3 for cooking ( BGM_CookingSuccess, BGM_CookingGreat and BGM_CookingFail ).
Looking arround on that folder make me question if links legs are full ragdoll, has some scripted animations, or a combo of those but im on my way to the 8 heroine to goof arround and see if that bring something up.
Fun fact: In the same vein of Link kicking the chest to open it if he doesn't open it from the front (and hurting his foot if he's not wearing any sort of footwear), if you crouch and open a chest from anywhere other than the front, he'll *punch* it and hurt his hand instead.
this game had me stare at the scenery for a great amount of time, and I'm glad link didn't move much while I did. When characters start to fidget every other second while I'm doing nothing and just look at stuff, I feel like the character and therefore the game gets impatient with me for... appreciating it?? so I guess this minimal movement is intentional for the player to have a chill time and enjoy the environment. just a personal pet peeve when characters say stuff like "ahhh I really need to go to point x asap" after 5 seconds of no control input haha
I absolutely love deep dives like this, a lot of people could care less but I LOVE analyzing even the smallest of things
even more wild that link in OoT would even swing his sword around and check his gear and that was in 1998
My fav idle is when you have a “tamed” horse w/o high friendship. When you stop it bites at your feet and tries to shake you off.
Yoshi's Island for SNES has one of the first idle fidgits I remember noticing. It is odd how long it takes Link to fidgit in BoTW.
The immense amount of time for Link's idle fidget kind of reminds me of how Donkey Kong 64 had a near-impossible-to-find hint system, where you had to crouch for *4 hours straight* to be given a hint on what to do next.
"These are blank bodies... they are vessels for you."
Sounds like Warframe, and even they have idle fidgets that happen more often than Link's does.
When it comes to BotW, my impression is that a lot more focus was given to gameplay and the primary mechanic (open world with shifting weather, day/night cycle, etc.) than to making Link a character. Aside from Link being very much an avatar for the player (it's true that he has his own character, but he's also the classic silent protagonist from JRPGs where a good portion of their personality is your projection or imagination), Link's idle animations are focused on context and on conveying information to the player. There's more variety/breadth for different situations (clothes and weather), but less variety/depth for the same situation (multiple animations in one situation). As for the freezing animation, aside from Link dying very soon due to the cold, it conveys information visually to the player, organically, that he's freezing. It has a purpose.
I don't think there's much of a purpose to there being so few. I think it was just deprioritized from a game design perspective.
Dan isn't saying that the _existence_ of a freezing animation adds character-he's saying that the freezing animation is animated in a very character-ful manner. And it is! There are many more generic ways you can convey that information to the audience, and Nintendo chose none of them.